Kegmaster
Mini-game rotation.
This change will get me back into keg brawl. I like mini-games. Not just one of them. I like some better than others, but overall I like the difference in them and the complete change from normal gameplay. But when there is no reason for me to play I did not join them. Specially keg brawl. It was played with such a small amount of people that used a lot of exploits that really spoiled the fun. I will play it again when it is the daily as I expect a lot more people to try and therefore the amount of exploits in a game to go down.
I can see why the keg brawl fans don’t like this change. But don’t say that the other side of the coin does not exist, because I am one of the people on the other side of that coin.
Let me ask you this, OP. What about all those players who hadn’t heard of it, saw it as a daily, tried it out and it totally sucked because of how the game was being abused. Those are potential players that never get to see the game fully populated or played as intended.
I’d almost wager there are more of them than there are people who love the game.
This change will get me back into keg brawl. I like mini-games. Not just one of them. I like some better than others, but overall I like the difference in them and the complete change from normal gameplay. But when there is no reason for me to play I did not join them. Specially keg brawl. It was played with such a small amount of people that used a lot of exploits that really spoiled the fun. I will play it again when it is the daily as I expect a lot more people to try and therefore the amount of exploits in a game to go down.
I can see why the keg brawl fans don’t like this change. But don’t say that the other side of the coin does not exist, because I am one of the people on the other side of that coin.
I’m going to say they don’t exist still, because you made what I perceive to be a very naive assessment of the content. I’ve pointed out in this thread before that time limited content encourages farmers. Of course, it’s speculation, but why would people all of a sudden think that they can come in and enjoy the game more if they didn’t enjoy it before. All of the same problems, from lobbing to achievement farming, are still there, and will only get worse. Furthermore, the people who never liked Keg Brawl in the first place are not all of a sudden jumping out of their seats to play it.
This system is not about dailies. It’s about one mini game being the only mini game you can even play at a time. I don’t actually think there are gonna be ways to do these mini games for the daily anymore since neither of the two that already appeared supported one.
If a lot more people try, but not many of them enjoy it because it’s a bug ridden and exploited mess, then why would they stay to play normally or not just join the exploiters themselves. After all, they now have a lot less total time opportunity to get those achievement points, so farming is heavily encouraged by this update.
Kegmaster
(edited by Serelisk.6573)
Let me ask you this, OP. What about all those players who hadn’t heard of it, saw it as a daily, tried it out and it totally sucked because of how the game was being abused. Those are potential players that never get to see the game fully populated or played as intended.
I’d almost wager there are more of them than there are people who love the game.
Idk if you think I’m the OP or what, because I’m not. But that was part of my point. The reason for the unhealthy population of Keg Brawl is more than likely not because of player dilution, but because Keg Brawl is an unsupported, unrewarding experience filled with bugs, achievement point farmers and lobbers. And ArenaNet have done nothing since launch to correct any of that.
Kegmaster
Let me ask you this, OP. What about all those players who hadn’t heard of it, saw it as a daily, tried it out and it totally sucked because of how the game was being abused. Those are potential players that never get to see the game fully populated or played as intended.
I’d almost wager there are more of them than there are people who love the game.
Idk if you think I’m the OP or what, because I’m not. But that was part of my point. The reason for the unhealthy population of Keg Brawl is more than likely not because of player dilution, but because Keg Brawl is an unsupported, unrewarding experience filled with bugs, achievement point farmers and lobbers. And ArenaNet have done nothing since launch to correct any of that.
I agree. The game as it stands is a disaster. Certainly other minigames were more enjoyable. So Anet asks itself why spend time/energy on a game that isn’t as popular, when we can make more popular games in the future.
For you this is a major deal but I promise you, you’re in a vast minority.
Vayne yes, because limiting the content is far more better than disabiling it for a while to fix any loophole that allowed to abuse the game /sarcasm. And you should ask yourself why players have not heard of the game form the start . Treat my question as a food for thought.
I don’t get the “player dilution” argument. Keg Brawl has been out forever, there is nothing new or novelty about it, and many players didn’t even know about it, and other activities were going on at the same time (in the last two weeks, 3 other mini-games).
And yet it was never empty when I joined. Leaving and re-joining showed me that there were always several matches going on at the same time, too. (Edit: I mainly play during off-hours, too, as I am currently in Europe but playing on AN servers.)
As long as, between the entire population of hundreds of thousands of GW2 players, teams can be fielded at any point in time during the day, I don’t see how player dilution applies to or affects the mini-games.
We have enough GW2 players for 4 mini games at the same time to run multiple instances any minute during any day, so I really don’t see the necessity of putting them all on a rotation system. At all.
I support Portable Doors: Player Housing anywhere!
~ Whips ~ City Minigames ~ City Jumping Puzzles ~
~ Whips ~ City Minigames ~ City Jumping Puzzles ~
(edited by Pixelpumpkin.4608)
@Vayne, no, the content of Keg Brawl is quite great, imo. But there’s so much getting in the way of enjoying it, and you keep over exaggerating the developer resources that must go into fixing any of this stuff because there’s no reason they can’t disable the lob skill, even if they don’t replace it, or prevent people from leaving the Arena with an invisible wall.
And it’s even more ridiculous that they didn’t mention after launch that Keg brawl even existed to anyone except those who hunt every daily, every day.
Kegmaster
Vayne yes, because limiting the content is far more better than disabiling it for a while to fix any loophole that allowed to abuse the game /sarcasm. And you should ask yourself why players have not heard of the game form the start . Treat my question as a food for thought.
Nice sarcasm.
Doesn’t address my point at all. It’s not the question of what’s better, but what’s worth the time and energy. Every single developer has limited resources to spend time/money on things. Anet is no different.
So they have to put the money into stuff most people like pretty much by definition. Now it’s possible that if Keg Brawl wasn’t broken in the first place, it would be more popular, but Anet has no way of knowing if that’s the case or not. What they do know is that most people don’t care about it/know about it or play it. Which means putting time/energy into it now is like throwing good money after bad.
Vayne yes, because limiting the content is far more better than disabiling it for a while to fix any loophole that allowed to abuse the game /sarcasm. And you should ask yourself why players have not heard of the game form the start . Treat my question as a food for thought.
Nice sarcasm.
Doesn’t address my point at all. It’s not the question of what’s better, but what’s worth the time and energy. Every single developer has limited resources to spend time/money on things. Anet is no different.
So they have to put the money into stuff most people like pretty much by definition. Now it’s possible that if Keg Brawl wasn’t broken in the first place, it would be more popular, but Anet has no way of knowing if that’s the case or not. What they do know is that most people don’t care about it/know about it or play it. Which means putting time/energy into it now is like throwing good money after bad.
But that assessment is based on their poor handling of the mini game in general. They also know that there are people who love and believe in it to succeed if it gets support, or at least they should know, and that they haven’t dropped a dime of thought on giving it basic functionality or exposure to the general player base of GW2.
And your argument doesn’t address the fact that whatever they’re doing now is supposedly for the benefit of the players, but now if the player base doesn’t like the game that they still haven’t fixed at all, they don’t get to play their favored mini game because stupid old keg brawl is in the rotation that day.
Kegmaster
Vayne If they have a developer, that created a Rytlock SNES mini-game over a weekend, if Anet have team that created SAB over few weeks ( and it turned out to be better than regular dungeons ! At least forum posters said something like that ) how come they cannot think about a sufficent way to promote mini-games in more reasonable manner ?
I ask again : why is it that people did not know about Keg Brawl from the start for instance ?
You do know what I personally think is huge money waster – Living World, but this is a matter of other threads.
Vayne If they have a developer, that created a Rytlock SNES mini-game over a weekend, if Anet have team that created SAB over few weeks ( and it turned out to be better than regular dungeons ! At least forum posters said something like that ) how come they cannot think about a sufficent way to promote mini-games in more reasonable manner ?
I ask again : why is it that people did not know about Keg Brawl from the start for instance ?
You do know what I personally think is huge money waster – Living World, but this is a matter of other threads.
Except that the living world is populated by tons of people and keg brawl isn’t…no matter the reason.
Anet looks at their data for who’s doing what. If keg brawl had enough of a following…if enough people were interested in it, it would be in their agenda.
Except that the living world is populated by tons of people and keg brawl isn’t…no matter the reason.
Do you have any numbers or even anecdotes to support this, because my own experiences with Keg Brawl in the last month have been completely different. There was always several games going on at the same time, on days when Keg Brawl wasn’t on dailies, and during off hours.
I support Portable Doors: Player Housing anywhere!
~ Whips ~ City Minigames ~ City Jumping Puzzles ~
~ Whips ~ City Minigames ~ City Jumping Puzzles ~
@vayne Then why they are actually introducing more-mini games ( Belcher Bluff, Aspect Arena, Sprint) knowing that they have little or no intrest ? Why is it that instead of polishing older content we are being rushed into new one,eventually leaving previous one locked ?
What if I want to play Sancum Sprint today ? Or maybe tomorrow ? Is is logicall to be blocked by group that plays currently Southsun Survival ?
(edited by Blumiere.1489)
Vayne If they have a developer, that created a Rytlock SNES mini-game over a weekend, if Anet have team that created SAB over few weeks ( and it turned out to be better than regular dungeons ! At least forum posters said something like that ) how come they cannot think about a sufficent way to promote mini-games in more reasonable manner ?
I ask again : why is it that people did not know about Keg Brawl from the start for instance ?
You do know what I personally think is huge money waster – Living World, but this is a matter of other threads.
Except that the living world is populated by tons of people and keg brawl isn’t…no matter the reason.
Anet looks at their data for who’s doing what. If keg brawl had enough of a following…if enough people were interested in it, it would be in their agenda.
Your argument in almost every post is summed up to: “since the developers have all the data and we don’t, they’re probably making a more informed and better decision than we can.”
It’s really hard to have a discussion when you’re retreating to speculation that always favors the developer. It doesn’t address causes, just outcomes that peopel are using to make a claim that player dilution is the reason why we should funnel everyone into one mini game.
Kegmaster
@vayne Then why they are actually introducing more-mini games ( Belcher Bluff, Aspect Arena, Sprint) knowing that they have little or no intrest ? Why is it that instead of polishing older content we are being rushed into new one,eventually leaving previous one locked ?
What if I want to play Sancum Sprint today ? Or maybe tomorrow ? Is is logicall to be blocked by group that plays currently Southsun Survival ?
I said there was little to no interest in Keg Brawl specifically, not minigames.
But you didn’t give a reason of why and how this is amended in this new patch.
Kegmaster
Vayne If they have a developer, that created a Rytlock SNES mini-game over a weekend, if Anet have team that created SAB over few weeks ( and it turned out to be better than regular dungeons ! At least forum posters said something like that ) how come they cannot think about a sufficent way to promote mini-games in more reasonable manner ?
I ask again : why is it that people did not know about Keg Brawl from the start for instance ?
You do know what I personally think is huge money waster – Living World, but this is a matter of other threads.
Except that the living world is populated by tons of people and keg brawl isn’t…no matter the reason.
Anet looks at their data for who’s doing what. If keg brawl had enough of a following…if enough people were interested in it, it would be in their agenda.
Your argument in almost every post is summed up to: “since the developers have all the data and we don’t, they’re probably making a more informed and better decision than we can.”
It’s really hard to have a discussion when you’re retreating to speculation that always favors the developer. It doesn’t address causes, just outcomes that peopel are using to make a claim that player dilution is the reason why we should funnel everyone into one mini game.
I don’t see how you can possibly think the devs don’t have this metric. I’m not ALWAYS retreating into this logic, but in this case, they have a business to run. It seems to me if their data showed keg brawl was popular and liked, they’d have impetus to do something about it.
I’ve gone many times to keg brawl on days when it wasn’t on the dailies and spent time standing in an arena waiting for an opponent to show up.
But you didn’t give a reason of why and how this is amended in this new patch.
Because it’s much easier to cheat at keg brawl on a slow down when few people are around, and give someone new the complete wrong impression of the game than it is to do so one a day when many people are playing. And this I know from personal experience.
Vayne If they have a developer, that created a Rytlock SNES mini-game over a weekend, if Anet have team that created SAB over few weeks ( and it turned out to be better than regular dungeons ! At least forum posters said something like that ) how come they cannot think about a sufficent way to promote mini-games in more reasonable manner ?
I ask again : why is it that people did not know about Keg Brawl from the start for instance ?
You do know what I personally think is huge money waster – Living World, but this is a matter of other threads.
Except that the living world is populated by tons of people and keg brawl isn’t…no matter the reason.
Anet looks at their data for who’s doing what. If keg brawl had enough of a following…if enough people were interested in it, it would be in their agenda.
Your argument in almost every post is summed up to: “since the developers have all the data and we don’t, they’re probably making a more informed and better decision than we can.”
It’s really hard to have a discussion when you’re retreating to speculation that always favors the developer. It doesn’t address causes, just outcomes that peopel are using to make a claim that player dilution is the reason why we should funnel everyone into one mini game.
I don’t see how you can possibly think the devs don’t have this metric. I’m not ALWAYS retreating into this logic, but in this case, they have a business to run. It seems to me if their data showed keg brawl was popular and liked, they’d have impetus to do something about it.
I’ve gone many times to keg brawl on days when it wasn’t on the dailies and spent time standing in an arena waiting for an opponent to show up.
No one says they don’t have some metric, but you’re not actually saying anything with it. The issue is that they’re making it so people who enjoyed it cannot play it now 75% of the time, and people who don’t enjoy it are forced to play it 25% of the time with this new update. But they haven’t actually updated Keg Brawl to be any better than it was previously, and they’re likely going to end up with a broken wheel of this mini game rotation, which is already fundamentally broken because it’s restricting content for no coherent reason.
Kegmaster
Vayne, than assuming that Anet is aware of playerbase being low why the hell they are still introducing new mini-games ? Makes no sense at all. I now honestly cannot wait for another month. If another new mini game will be introduced I will honestly find their current movement bizarre.
Post was edited.
But you didn’t give a reason of why and how this is amended in this new patch.
Because it’s much easier to cheat at keg brawl on a slow down when few people are around, and give someone new the complete wrong impression of the game than it is to do so one a day when many people are playing. And this I know from personal experience.
Explain, because that’s a completely unfounded claim. Furthermore, you haven’t actually made a point that guarantees Keg Brawl will have any larger of a following because your argument was that people didn’t like the game… so why would they like it more now? Nothing changed except they were told they can only play it on this days and every 4 days for the rest of forever. Why would there be more people? For the achievements? Those are farmers, and they’re likely to be more insistent than ever considering this is now time limited.
Kegmaster
Vayne, than assuming that Anet is aware of playerbase being low why the hell they are still introducing new mini-games ? Makes no sense at all. I now honestly cannot wait for another month. If another new mini game will be introduced I will honestly find their current movement bizarre.
Post was edited.
I never said the playerbase was low. I said those who play Keg Brawl is low. Other mini games have been consistently popular…possibly because they are limited time, but that doesn’t change my experiences.
I’ve never gone into one of the minigames from the LS and had no one there but me. Sometimes I’m the first person in an arena because others are full, but I’ve never had no one there. In Keg Brawl I’ve more than once had no one there.
Minigames aren’t the problem…but I think Keg Brawl is.
But you didn’t give a reason of why and how this is amended in this new patch.
Because it’s much easier to cheat at keg brawl on a slow down when few people are around, and give someone new the complete wrong impression of the game than it is to do so one a day when many people are playing. And this I know from personal experience.
Explain, because that’s a completely unfounded claim. Furthermore, you haven’t actually made a point that guarantees Keg Brawl will have any larger of a following because your argument was that people didn’t like the game… so why would they like it more now? Nothing changed except they were told they can only play it on this days and every 4 days for the rest of forever. Why would there be more people? For the achievements? Those are farmers, and they’re likely to be more insistent than ever considering this is now time limited.
My personal experience on busier days is that you get in there, and every pretty much has to agree to cheat…because once someone starts playing, they’re playing and taking the keg away from you.
On other days, slower ones, when there’s only two people playing PERIOD, who refuse to play at all, it’s very hard to get a game started at all. That’s my experience.
How will it be better? Because it’ll be like the daily days when play actually occurs. And I’d rather play the game then stand around farming achievements.
Vayne If they have a developer, that created a Rytlock SNES mini-game over a weekend, if Anet have team that created SAB over few weeks ( and it turned out to be better than regular dungeons ! At least forum posters said something like that ) how come they cannot think about a sufficent way to promote mini-games in more reasonable manner ?
I ask again : why is it that people did not know about Keg Brawl from the start for instance ?
You do know what I personally think is huge money waster – Living World, but this is a matter of other threads.
Except that the living world is populated by tons of people and keg brawl isn’t…no matter the reason.
Anet looks at their data for who’s doing what. If keg brawl had enough of a following…if enough people were interested in it, it would be in their agenda.
Your argument in almost every post is summed up to: “since the developers have all the data and we don’t, they’re probably making a more informed and better decision than we can.”
It’s really hard to have a discussion when you’re retreating to speculation that always favors the developer. It doesn’t address causes, just outcomes that peopel are using to make a claim that player dilution is the reason why we should funnel everyone into one mini game.
I don’t see how you can possibly think the devs don’t have this metric. I’m not ALWAYS retreating into this logic, but in this case, they have a business to run. It seems to me if their data showed keg brawl was popular and liked, they’d have impetus to do something about it.
I’ve gone many times to keg brawl on days when it wasn’t on the dailies and spent time standing in an arena waiting for an opponent to show up.
No one says they don’t have some metric, but you’re not actually saying anything with it. The issue is that they’re making it so people who enjoyed it cannot play it now 75% of the time, and people who don’t enjoy it are forced to play it 25% of the time with this new update. But they haven’t actually updated Keg Brawl to be any better than it was previously, and they’re likely going to end up with a broken wheel of this mini game rotation, which is already fundamentally broken because it’s restricting content for no coherent reason.
I’m saying they have more information than you and they made this decision. They made it dispassionately. They have nothing to gain by cutting off a popular game. The only reason they’d do it is for some positive reason.
Now I’ve seen at least two threads on this forum about Keg Brawl cheating and how it’s ruining the game for some people. We don’t know how many complaints this has caused, but Anet does.
No company makes decisions for no reason. That doesn’t mean we get to know the reason.
This change will get me back into keg brawl. I like mini-games. Not just one of them. I like some better than others, but overall I like the difference in them and the complete change from normal gameplay. But when there is no reason for me to play I did not join them. Specially keg brawl. It was played with such a small amount of people that used a lot of exploits that really spoiled the fun. I will play it again when it is the daily as I expect a lot more people to try and therefore the amount of exploits in a game to go down.
I can see why the keg brawl fans don’t like this change. But don’t say that the other side of the coin does not exist, because I am one of the people on the other side of that coin.
I’m going to say they don’t exist still, because you made what I perceive to be a very naive assessment of the content. I’ve pointed out in this thread before that time limited content encourages farmers. Of course, it’s speculation, but why would people all of a sudden think that they can come in and enjoy the game more if they didn’t enjoy it before. All of the same problems, from lobbing to achievement farming, are still there, and will only get worse. Furthermore, the people who never liked Keg Brawl in the first place are not all of a sudden jumping out of their seats to play it.
This system is not about dailies. It’s about one mini game being the only mini game you can even play at a time. I don’t actually think there are gonna be ways to do these mini games for the daily anymore since neither of the two that already appeared supported one.
If a lot more people try, but not many of them enjoy it because it’s a bug ridden and exploited mess, then why would they stay to play normally or not just join the exploiters themselves. After all, they now have a lot less total time opportunity to get those achievement points, so farming is heavily encouraged by this update.
I do see your point as stated that I do understand why the fans dislike it. And no I am not naive to see what the change is. I understand it time gates content that you enjoy. For me it makes that content more fun and accessible. And not only because of the exploits (sad that that can be used as an argument in this case, they should fix it in my opinion too). Keg brawl is not as active as you make it out to be. Atleast not when I played. So I stopped out of it being boring with only 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2.
More people are going to try it again or for the first time. And because of that the experience will be more fun. The maps will be more full and you will see more different people. I gave up on the game not because of the exploits.
So yes, there are people who did not play and who will play it again due to this change as I know I will be. So I am sorry, but there are people on the other side of the coin, but I think overall the game (GW2, not keg brawl) will benefit from this change.
And I think your assessment is a bit limited if you do not include the daily. The daily changed to doing an activity per day. With the activity changing per day, people will find themselves doing keg brawl. Most of the people I know did not go out of their way to do the keg brawl daily, specially not with the experience we had from it, where we will do it when the daily activity is keg brawl now. Quite a few in my guild will do this, so no I am not alone either. With everyone just playing one game per day for just the daily is already going to increase the amount of players massively which is going to improve the experience (still they should fix most of it).
I understand this change is not beneficial for you, but it does not mean it is not benifical for others either.
But you didn’t give a reason of why and how this is amended in this new patch.
Because it’s much easier to cheat at keg brawl on a slow down when few people are around, and give someone new the complete wrong impression of the game than it is to do so one a day when many people are playing. And this I know from personal experience.
Explain, because that’s a completely unfounded claim. Furthermore, you haven’t actually made a point that guarantees Keg Brawl will have any larger of a following because your argument was that people didn’t like the game… so why would they like it more now? Nothing changed except they were told they can only play it on this days and every 4 days for the rest of forever. Why would there be more people? For the achievements? Those are farmers, and they’re likely to be more insistent than ever considering this is now time limited.
My personal experience on busier days is that you get in there, and every pretty much has to agree to cheat…because once someone starts playing, they’re playing and taking the keg away from you.
On other days, slower ones, when there’s only two people playing PERIOD, who refuse to play at all, it’s very hard to get a game started at all. That’s my experience.
How will it be better? Because it’ll be like the daily days when play actually occurs. And I’d rather play the game then stand around farming achievements.
Your experience differed considerably from mine, and I can guarantee you I played a lot more than you did.
Kegmaster
But you didn’t give a reason of why and how this is amended in this new patch.
Because it’s much easier to cheat at keg brawl on a slow down when few people are around, and give someone new the complete wrong impression of the game than it is to do so one a day when many people are playing. And this I know from personal experience.
Explain, because that’s a completely unfounded claim. Furthermore, you haven’t actually made a point that guarantees Keg Brawl will have any larger of a following because your argument was that people didn’t like the game… so why would they like it more now? Nothing changed except they were told they can only play it on this days and every 4 days for the rest of forever. Why would there be more people? For the achievements? Those are farmers, and they’re likely to be more insistent than ever considering this is now time limited.
My personal experience on busier days is that you get in there, and every pretty much has to agree to cheat…because once someone starts playing, they’re playing and taking the keg away from you.
On other days, slower ones, when there’s only two people playing PERIOD, who refuse to play at all, it’s very hard to get a game started at all. That’s my experience.
How will it be better? Because it’ll be like the daily days when play actually occurs. And I’d rather play the game then stand around farming achievements.
Your experience differed considerably from mine, and I can guarantee you I played a lot more than you did.
I’m not the only person in this thread who’d had the experience. It could be because I play off hours too, since I’m in Australia. My point is your experience is yours, mine is mine, but Anet has the metrics. I don’t think their data supports your experience…because if it did, they’d probably not have done this.
Vayne, I feel ignored.
Except that the living world is populated by tons of people and keg brawl isn’t…no matter the reason.
Do you have any numbers or even anecdotes to support this, because my own experiences with Keg Brawl in the last month have been completely different. There was always several games going on at the same time, on days when Keg Brawl wasn’t on dailies, and during off hours.
I support Portable Doors: Player Housing anywhere!
~ Whips ~ City Minigames ~ City Jumping Puzzles ~
~ Whips ~ City Minigames ~ City Jumping Puzzles ~
Vayne, I feel ignored.
Except that the living world is populated by tons of people and keg brawl isn’t…no matter the reason.
Do you have any numbers or even anecdotes to support this, because my own experiences with Keg Brawl in the last month have been completely different. There was always several games going on at the same time, on days when Keg Brawl wasn’t on dailies, and during off hours.
Sorry…I’m trying to desperately stay focused…but I’m in a lot of pain because of a dental visit…so I’m missing stuff.
My experiences aren’t in the last couple of weeks, but I have been in out of of keg brawl prior to that for a couple of months, at least a few times a week…not always or even usually on daily days either.
But the last few weeks I’ve played less, because of prior experiences, which suck. I’m either the only one standing there, or I have to argue with people who want to get achievements without playing the game.
Both of your argument rely on a completely unfounded opinion that leans on hearsay and speculation, but has no supporting reasoning to back it. More people playing the mini games at any given moment in time is not a guarantee that actual games will be played, but time gated content has shown already that it increases/exacerbates the issue of achievement farmers and exploiters.
My experience and I’m sure many others’ has been that when they join any given match when keg Brawl’s the daily, people will typically stand around not participating asking someone if they can help them with the daily because they refuse to learn how to play the game and earn it themselves.
You’ve said that people don’t like the content of Keg Brawl, and that’s most likely why it’s population has been so low. it’s unsupported and unrewarding to play normally, meanwhile there’s still the completely broken mechanic of lobbing. Why would these people suddenly be okay with this when they weren’t during the daily days where they would get busy matches?
And why would they need to limit content at all to promote this? They could spend a week over their social media sites promoting it, or reaching out to guilds (such as PUNT) for live stream opportunities or Q&A’s on the game and what we think of it. It’s absolutely asinine that they need to make someone elses experience considerably worse just to get people to be aware this game exists, which is another crucial point of both your arguments
Kegmaster
Both of your argument rely on a completely unfounded opinion that leans on hearsay and speculation, but has no supporting reasoning to back it. More people playing the mini games at any given moment in time is not a guarantee that actual games will be played, but time gated content has shown already that it increases/exacerbates the issue of achievement farmers and exploiters.
My experience and I’m sure many others’ has been that when they join any given match when keg Brawl’s the daily, people will typically stand around not participating asking someone if they can help them with the daily because they refuse to learn how to play the game and earn it themselves.
You’ve said that people don’t like the content of Keg Brawl, and that’s most likely why it’s population has been so low. it’s unsupported and unrewarding to play normally, meanwhile there’s still the completely broken mechanic of lobbing. Why would these people suddenly be okay with this when they weren’t during the daily days where they would get busy matches?
And why would they need to limit content at all to promote this? They could spend a week over their social media sites promoting it, or reaching out to guilds (such as PUNT) for live stream opportunities or Q&A’s on the game and what we think of it. It’s absolutely asinine that they need to make someone elses experience considerably worse just to get people to be aware this game exists, which is another crucial point of both your arguments
My own experiences aren’t hearsay. Hearsay would be if someone told me that this was their experience, but I didn’t witness it. A person in court testifying that they saw something is giving evidence. Testifying that they heard something and didn’t witness it is providing hearsay.
And again, it’s not hearsay that Anet has metrics. We know they have them, because they’ve said so straight out. Not about this, but about other things. They have the numbers, we don’t.
Therefore anything anyone says about it, including you, is pure speculation. Your experience.
Saying that you have facts because of your experience while calling my experience hearsay is pretty disingenuous.
@ Vayne, I wasn’t passing anything as fact. I implore you to point out where I did. But if you want them now, here:
75% of the time, I will not be able to access Keg Brawl, as opposed to the previous 0% of the time that I wasn’t able to access Keg Brawl. This is negative. This is a fact.
25% of the time someone who doesn’t like Keg Brawl will have to spend the day doing something else that is not Keg Brawl until their favorite mini game happens in the next few days. This is negative. This is a fact.
The supporting or satellite elements of Keg Brawl are either non existent, or have been and still are in a poor shape since launch. ArenaNet has done next to nothing to fix any of it since launch. It’s also not advertised at all. ArenaNet has done nothing except dailies to let the player base know that Keg Brawl exists. This is a fact.
For most of the game, Keg Brawl has had poor to average population levels. It was also the only permanent mini game for all of that time. We’ve pretty much agreed in this thread that these are both facts.
These are facts. None of these are refutable.
Now from here, we can use reasoning, which is the more accepted form of speculation because it is based on facts. You can reason that Keg Brawl’s population issues are not because of player dilution, and we can reason that it’s likely because of Keg Brawl’s poor, unsupported state and the fact that it got no advertisement from ArenaNet, that it has had the population issues it does. This is reasoning based on fact with personal testimony from someone else in the thread.
So the issue is likely caused by a certain problem with the game type. Being reasonable people, we can make a pretty good guess that if you solved the problem, you would be able to or be closer to fixing the problems associated with the one that was just solved. That would be, actually trying to make their game appealing instead of leaving it in (what I’m guessing is a 2011 version of the mini-game that they hardly touched since) the state it’s in. I would think this is a reasonable conclusion based on fact, and the given example of SPvP from earlier.
This is not what they’re doing. Instead of fixing what is potentially the problem, they’re instead causing even more problems with the people who actually like the game as it is now. See the top of the post. This is a fact.
The opposing speculation to why this will be a benefit is unfounded and based on personal experiences which hold no merit because they differ wildly from others’ experience. That is; apparently when more people are playing Keg Brawl overall, there is less achievement hunters and exploiters. This is just speculation based on anecdotes.
However, the reason people farm the achievements is to get them quickly. It’s efficient play. Time vs Reward. Simply put, it is not worth the reward for them to spend the time getting the achievement the correct way, so they resort to abusing exploits in order to gain the achievements faster. This is a fact.
Keg Brawl will be up for 75% less time than it was previously. Which means they’ll have a 75% opportunity, time-wise, to get the achievements they want. This is a fact.
One can reason, based on the above facts, that Keg Brawl will see more exploiters and achievement farmers since ArenaNet has done nothing to actually make the game a better experience to play, have not directly confronted the exploiters, and have further limited the time amount the people will be able to acquire the achievements. This is reasoning based on facts, and this mentality of achievement farmers in the new temporal content has already been mentioned before in numerous other threads.
There’s more reasoning I can provide about who this game of GW2 is trying to appeal to vs who is actually enjoying the mini games, but I’ll leave it at this. The end result is that you now have concrete negatives, which is the only factual thing to come out of this. And you have reasoning that predicts a bad outcome for this update. Whereas anything good to come out of this is baseless speculation or opinion based on baseless speculation.
Kegmaster
Hello again everyone.
What still bugs me, is the fact, that actually we see no explanation about this sudden change either on update notes,game event guide. Sure this was mentioned by Council candidates, but still no one even expleained what this game rotation meant in generall, even the purpouse.
And still I see no explenation of this move from Anet. Apart from current quarrel that arose I simple plea Anet for some reasonable explanation of this. Throwing arguments back and forth from no matter which side will not trully satisfy me. Sorry for being selfish, but sinc dev reply to topics about economy,dungeons,lore, and general why should not they reply to minigames.?No wonder little is know about them since they are marginalized from the start.
Post edited milion of times, and still will be.
(edited by Blumiere.1489)
@ Vayne, I wasn’t passing anything as fact. I implore you to point out where I did. But if you want them now, here:
75% of the time, I will not be able to access Keg Brawl, as opposed to the previous 0% of the time that I wasn’t able to access Keg Brawl. This is negative. This is a fact.
25% of the time someone who doesn’t like Keg Brawl will have to spend the day doing something else that is not Keg Brawl until their favorite mini game happens in the next few days. This is negative. This is a fact.
The supporting or satellite elements of Keg Brawl are either non existent, or have been and still are in a poor shape since launch. ArenaNet has done next to nothing to fix any of it since launch. It’s also not advertised at all. ArenaNet has done nothing except dailies to let the player base know that Keg Brawl exists. This is a fact.
snip
These are facts. None of these are refutable.
Now from here, we can use reasoning, which is the more accepted form of speculation because it is based on facts. You can reason that Keg Brawl’s population issues are not because of player dilution, and we can reason that it’s likely because of Keg Brawl’s poor, unsupported state and the fact that it got no advertisement from ArenaNet, that it has had the population issues it does. This is reasoning based on fact with personal testimony from someone else in the thread.
So the issue is likely caused by a certain problem with the game type. Being reasonable people, we can make a pretty good guess that if you solved the problem, you would be able to or be closer to fixing the problems associated with the one that was just solved. That would be, actually trying to make their game appealing instead of leaving it in (what I’m guessing is a 2011 version of the mini-game that they hardly touched since) the state it’s in. I would think this is a reasonable conclusion based on fact, and the given example of SPvP from earlier.
This is not what they’re doing. Instead of fixing what is potentially the problem, they’re instead causing even more problems with the people who actually like the game as it is now. See the top of the post. This is a fact.
snip
However, the reason people farm the achievements is to get them quickly. It’s efficient play. Time vs Reward. Simply put, it is not worth the reward for them to spend the time getting the achievement the correct way, so they resort to abusing exploits in order to gain the achievements faster. This is a fact.
Keg Brawl will be up for 75% less time than it was previously. Which means they’ll have a 75% opportunity, time-wise, to get the achievements they want. This is a fact.
One can reason, based on the above facts, that Keg Brawl will see more exploiters and achievement farmers since ArenaNet has done nothing to actually make the game a better experience to play, have not directly confronted the exploiters, and have further limited the time amount the people will be able to acquire the achievements. This is reasoning based on facts, and this mentality of achievement farmers in the new temporal content has already been mentioned before in numerous other threads.
There’s more reasoning I can provide about who this game of GW2 is trying to appeal to vs who is actually enjoying the mini games, but I’ll leave it at this. The end result is that you now have concrete negatives, which is the only factual thing to come out of this. And you have reasoning that predicts a bad outcome for this update. Whereas anything good to come out of this is baseless speculation or opinion based on baseless speculation.
I don’t agree with your facts. In fact, 75% of the time that I wasn’t able to keg brawl…at least part of that 75% of the time, I wasn’t able to keg brawl because there’d be no one in there, or maybe one other guy. When you have three people and it’s 2 on 1, it’s kind of a waste anyway. That’s why full teams are needed…most of the off times I’ve been there I haven’t had it. So I don’t see myself as missing out on 75% of the time.
And if my experience isn’t unique, it means others come to the arena, and experienced what I did, and learned to hate the game. I don’t think that’s the best thing for the game.
In the rotation it will be more likely populated by groups of people, who sometimes at least will play it as it was meant to be played.
I also question how it would work if every mini game was up and running all the time. You’d divide the player base too think and you wouldn’t have enough people to do it all. Do I race, or do I crab toss, or do I keg brawl.
There’s enough people to support the LS minigames and probably one other a day. I don’t know that there’s enough to support the number of mini games Anet has put out there.
And you don’t know that either.
I’ve gone many times to keg brawl on days when it wasn’t on the dailies and spent time standing in an arena waiting for an opponent to show up.
Oftentimes this is because a game of 5v5 is full and you’re moved to your own new game, then the population of the other game drops and you’re basically waiting in your own instance for the other game to fill up again so joiners will be redirected to your game
Edit: Serelisk’s post hits the nail on the head. Because there’s a limited opportunity for the achievement farmers to get their KB achievements done, they’ll be concentrated to the time slot for KB’s rotation and will be packed into every game. This encourages players new to KB to farm because that’s the first thing they see and will think it’s the norm and it’s acceptable. Thus less people actually playing the game (by ratio at least)
Anet has done nothing to remedy this situation and actually fix the game to prevent or control this from happening. Instead of trying to fix the problems present in the game they only make them worse by packing all the farmers together for a 24 hour period
North Carolina/Blue Oyster Cult/The Doors/Fleetwood Mac
State of Keg Brawl 2013
State of Keg Brawl 2013
(edited by Dave.1905)
There’s enough people to support the LS minigames and probably one other a day. I don’t know that there’s enough to support the number of mini games Anet has put out there.
And you don’t know that either.
You keep backing away from the important stuff… there’s other options they could’ve took to achieve the exact same thing you’re saying they’re achieving now, but they decided to inconvenience people without even a response.
The problem: they (apparently) want more people to play mini games but won’t put any effort into making their mini games appealing.
They’re forcing people to play in a very strict schedule, breaking previous freedoms of choice & variety, the whole point of having multiple mini games.
They’re encouraging people to farm/boost and ruin the experience for others by turning it into time gated content, meanwhile not providing any tools for players to not have to deal with this. (Private instance)
They’re disadvantaging those who have a spur of the moment, casual play style as it relates to the mini games, which are a change of pace from the regular game. If you have to schedule around playing your favorite mini game, then something’s clearly wrong.
But you keep saying that I don’t know the numbers, and I guess I’m supposed to think that means something? So what? Every MMO developer has metrics of some kind on their player base, so I pose the question: does this make all their decision making infallible?
You do so many gymnastics to defend this studio, but this is a harmful update. It goes from encouragement to play unique and fun mini games to forcing players to either not play or schedule around supposedly fun & casual content. Instead of taking steps to expand their current player base, they’re taking the lazy route and focusing it with asinine content blocking and cutting off mini games people love for large periods of time.
Kegmaster
Furthermore, there’s actually solutions to not being able to play full games with randoms when things are pretty slow. It’s the entire reason [PUNT] exists. And if any of you played Keg Brawl as much as you claim you have, then I know you’ve seen [PUNT] members before. I don’t remember anyone from this thread coming to me for an invite to the guild, or added to the friends list to message when you want to brawl…
But I guess this doesn’t matter, because it’s better to make it so the players have no opportunity to fix the situation themselves. Rather, you would have people just not be able to play so they have a very limited amount of time to enjoy the content because of ridiculous speculation about the impact of player population in the mini games.
Kegmaster
I’ve gone many times to keg brawl on days when it wasn’t on the dailies and spent time standing in an arena waiting for an opponent to show up.
Oftentimes this is because a game of 5v5 is full and you’re moved to your own new game, then the population of the other game drops and you’re basically waiting in your own instance for the other game to fill up again so joiners will be redirected to your game
Edit: Serelisk’s post hits the nail on the head. Because there’s a limited opportunity for the achievement farmers to get their KB achievements done, they’ll be concentrated to the time slot for KB’s rotation and will be packed into every game. This encourages players new to KB to farm because that’s the first thing they see and will think it’s the norm and it’s acceptable. Thus less people actually playing the game (by ratio at least)
Anet has done nothing to remedy this situation and actually fix the game to prevent or control this from happening. Instead of trying to fix the problems present in the game they only make them worse by packing all the farmers together for a 24 hour period
Possibly true some of the time but not all of time. Again, Anet has the metrics, we do not. Anything we say is just our observations. I’m pretty sure if it was madly popular Anet wouldnt’ have done it.
There’s enough people to support the LS minigames and probably one other a day. I don’t know that there’s enough to support the number of mini games Anet has put out there.
And you don’t know that either.
You keep backing away from the important stuff… there’s other options they could’ve took to achieve the exact same thing you’re saying they’re achieving now, but they decided to inconvenience people without even a response.
The problem: they (apparently) want more people to play mini games but won’t put any effort into making their mini games appealing.
They’re forcing people to play in a very strict schedule, breaking previous freedoms of choice & variety, the whole point of having multiple mini games.
They’re encouraging people to farm/boost and ruin the experience for others by turning it into time gated content, meanwhile not providing any tools for players to not have to deal with this. (Private instance)
They’re disadvantaging those who have a spur of the moment, casual play style as it relates to the mini games, which are a change of pace from the regular game. If you have to schedule around playing your favorite mini game, then something’s clearly wrong.
But you keep saying that I don’t know the numbers, and I guess I’m supposed to think that means something? So what? Every MMO developer has metrics of some kind on their player base, so I pose the question: does this make all their decision making infallible?
You do so many gymnastics to defend this studio, but this is a harmful update. It goes from encouragement to play unique and fun mini games to forcing players to either not play or schedule around supposedly fun & casual content. Instead of taking steps to expand their current player base, they’re taking the lazy route and focusing it with asinine content blocking and cutting off mini games people love for large periods of time.
Keg Brawl should have been a team sport from the beginning and lob should have been less important to the game. These are major issues I"m not thinking they’ll fix.
The problem with random is that it’s random. If you get a crap team against a good team you can get shut out, no matter how good you are, but you can’t choose your team.
So the game isn’t fulfilling for a lot of people, in spite of the fact that you like it. Anet doesn’t feel it’s worth investing time into, because they DO have metrics. You don’t.
If it had been made better from the beginning, they might have a different metric, but obviously they don’t see enough interest to fix it. YOU like it so you think they’re wrong.
I don’t think you (and those like you) represent a big enough portion of the game’s population for Anet to make decisions based solely on that.
There’s enough people to support the LS minigames and probably one other a day. I don’t know that there’s enough to support the number of mini games Anet has put out there.
And you don’t know that either.
You keep backing away from the important stuff… there’s other options they could’ve took to achieve the exact same thing you’re saying they’re achieving now, but they decided to inconvenience people without even a response.
The problem: they (apparently) want more people to play mini games but won’t put any effort into making their mini games appealing.
They’re forcing people to play in a very strict schedule, breaking previous freedoms of choice & variety, the whole point of having multiple mini games.
They’re encouraging people to farm/boost and ruin the experience for others by turning it into time gated content, meanwhile not providing any tools for players to not have to deal with this. (Private instance)
They’re disadvantaging those who have a spur of the moment, casual play style as it relates to the mini games, which are a change of pace from the regular game. If you have to schedule around playing your favorite mini game, then something’s clearly wrong.
But you keep saying that I don’t know the numbers, and I guess I’m supposed to think that means something? So what? Every MMO developer has metrics of some kind on their player base, so I pose the question: does this make all their decision making infallible?
You do so many gymnastics to defend this studio, but this is a harmful update. It goes from encouragement to play unique and fun mini games to forcing players to either not play or schedule around supposedly fun & casual content. Instead of taking steps to expand their current player base, they’re taking the lazy route and focusing it with asinine content blocking and cutting off mini games people love for large periods of time.
Keg Brawl should have been a team sport from the beginning and lob should have been less important to the game. These are major issues I"m not thinking they’ll fix.
The problem with random is that it’s random. If you get a crap team against a good team you can get shut out, no matter how good you are, but you can’t choose your team.
So the game isn’t fulfilling for a lot of people, in spite of the fact that you like it. Anet doesn’t feel it’s worth investing time into, because they DO have metrics. You don’t.
If it had been made better from the beginning, they might have a different metric, but obviously they don’t see enough interest to fix it. YOU like it so you think they’re wrong.
I don’t think you (and those like you) represent a big enough portion of the game’s population for Anet to make decisions based solely on that.
So then you now have to explain, why is it that making people, who don’t like Keg Brawl but like other mini games, have to play Keg Brawl a good thing? How is that good? They did nothing to fix its appeal… you’re not making any sense. The point is that this is a terrible solution to the population problems, why is taking content away from people going to make them suddenly think Keg Brawl is fulfilling?
Kegmaster
Also, explain how Keg Brawl wasn’t a team sport from the beginning. It has a lot of avenues for team based game play. Which can still show past all the lobbing that goes on.
Kegmaster
Possibly true some of the time but not all of time. Again, Anet has the metrics, we do not. Anything we say is just our observations. I’m pretty sure if it was madly popular Anet wouldnt’ have done it.
If they’re going to invest the time to create a rotation for minigames and promote the rotation to their fanbase, you’d think they would invest the time to actually fix some of the games while they’re at it. I get that developing custom arenas would take a larger amount of time than they might want to spend on it, but atleast fix the kitten lobbing problem
North Carolina/Blue Oyster Cult/The Doors/Fleetwood Mac
State of Keg Brawl 2013
State of Keg Brawl 2013
Because ANET thinks we care about time-gated “progression”, and this makes us “progress” through our achievements.
Because ANET thinks we care about time-gated “progression”.
’Tis a sad story indeed.
Kegmaster
Is Keg Brawl still in Hoelbraek cause it had always been there?
I can understand for the other stuff that they want a rotation because of the amount of players – we have the same with sPvP already where we can’t just chose the map we want to play.
There’s enough people to support the LS minigames and probably one other a day. I don’t know that there’s enough to support the number of mini games Anet has put out there.
And you don’t know that either.
You keep backing away from the important stuff… there’s other options they could’ve took to achieve the exact same thing you’re saying they’re achieving now, but they decided to inconvenience people without even a response.
The problem: they (apparently) want more people to play mini games but won’t put any effort into making their mini games appealing.
They’re forcing people to play in a very strict schedule, breaking previous freedoms of choice & variety, the whole point of having multiple mini games.
They’re encouraging people to farm/boost and ruin the experience for others by turning it into time gated content, meanwhile not providing any tools for players to not have to deal with this. (Private instance)
They’re disadvantaging those who have a spur of the moment, casual play style as it relates to the mini games, which are a change of pace from the regular game. If you have to schedule around playing your favorite mini game, then something’s clearly wrong.
But you keep saying that I don’t know the numbers, and I guess I’m supposed to think that means something? So what? Every MMO developer has metrics of some kind on their player base, so I pose the question: does this make all their decision making infallible?
You do so many gymnastics to defend this studio, but this is a harmful update. It goes from encouragement to play unique and fun mini games to forcing players to either not play or schedule around supposedly fun & casual content. Instead of taking steps to expand their current player base, they’re taking the lazy route and focusing it with asinine content blocking and cutting off mini games people love for large periods of time.
Keg Brawl should have been a team sport from the beginning and lob should have been less important to the game. These are major issues I"m not thinking they’ll fix.
The problem with random is that it’s random. If you get a crap team against a good team you can get shut out, no matter how good you are, but you can’t choose your team.
So the game isn’t fulfilling for a lot of people, in spite of the fact that you like it. Anet doesn’t feel it’s worth investing time into, because they DO have metrics. You don’t.
If it had been made better from the beginning, they might have a different metric, but obviously they don’t see enough interest to fix it. YOU like it so you think they’re wrong.
I don’t think you (and those like you) represent a big enough portion of the game’s population for Anet to make decisions based solely on that.
So then you now have to explain, why is it that making people, who don’t like Keg Brawl but like other mini games, have to play Keg Brawl a good thing? How is that good? They did nothing to fix its appeal… you’re not making any sense. The point is that this is a terrible solution to the population problems, why is taking content away from people going to make them suddenly think Keg Brawl is fulfilling?
They’re not making people play Keg Brawl. They’re moving Keg Brawl to a rotation for people who do like it. They could have just taken it out of the game completely. They’re giving it a chance. If enough people like it, they’ll keep it.
The point is, you have an agenda, because you love the game. But I don’t think that many people do.
There are many ways to get dailies and those who like keg brawl will be able to get one of their dailies every four days that way. That’s all. It’s just an end to an achievement.
But it will make it harder for people to just go and farm the achievements. I don’t see how you can plausibly deny that.
Is Keg Brawl still in Hoelbraek cause it had always been there?
I can understand for the other stuff that they want a rotation because of the amount of players – we have the same with sPvP already where we can’t just chose the map we want to play.
Keg Brawl can only be accessed now through the activities coordinator in LA. You’ll only have access to it one of out of every four days.
Because ANET thinks we care about time-gated “progression”.
’Tis a sad story indeed.
OH BOY! Lookat dat 45%! I feel like I’m PROGRESSING! Wow, I’m so excited!