Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

Kasama.8941:

I don’t farm nearly enough to make the price of this worth it. I can get 25 Orichalcum Mining Picks for 1 gold, that’s 2,500 uses. More then enough to last me a long time. Also, drawing more attention to yourself in WvW while you’re gathering a node, is a bad idea.

Unless you have a bunch of friends stealthed nearby and use it as a lure.

That’s the wrong way to look at it. Look at it this way: How LONG does it take you to resupply your picks? Do you ever run out of picks while mining? Do you have to go back to a vendor because you forgot to pick up picks? Even if you include pick buying as part of your routine in a town it still takes time to go to the vendor and buy the pick.

Buying the gem mining pick is just a matter of convenience and will save you TIME. How much is your time worth to you? How much gold do you make in the game per hour?

whiran.1473:

Vayne.8563:

Kasama.8941:

I don’t farm nearly enough to make the price of this worth it. I can get 25 Orichalcum Mining Picks for 1 gold, that’s 2,500 uses. More then enough to last me a long time. Also, drawing more attention to yourself in WvW while you’re gathering a node, is a bad idea.

Unless you have a bunch of friends stealthed nearby and use it as a lure.

That’s the wrong way to look at it. Look at it this way: How LONG does it take you to resupply your picks? Do you ever run out of picks while mining? Do you have to go back to a vendor because you forgot to pick up picks? Even if you include pick buying as part of your routine in a town it still takes time to go to the vendor and buy the pick.

Buying the gem mining pick is just a matter of convenience and will save you TIME. How much is your time worth to you? How much gold do you make in the game per hour?

I find these thoughts interesting.

I bought it because lava. Efficiency honestly never crossed my mind, and I continue to be a little surprised at how it’s the basis of other folks’ decisions. Lots of unique insights into the way people think.

After roughly 60000-62500 uses you will benefit from it compared to orichalcum picks. The actual number goes up and down depending on gem costs when you buy it. Before that, orichalcum picks will net you a higher profit per node.

It might be a nice conveniance item due to freed up bag space. Might be fun for the animation if you like that kinda thing.

But its alot of uses before you actually make a profit over orichalcum picks.

I bought it as a convenience item and it was my first gem store purchase. Considering the only other money I spent was on the game itself, I feel like I’m still coming out way ahead compared to playing a subscription-based game.

A lot of the math in this thread is incorrect.

Please refer to basic Cost Accounting to calculate the break even point.

Ronah.2869:

P2W in other MMOs = pay to be on top, while in GW2, P2W= pay to be the first on top. And the “convenience” is a word invented by A-Net to replace the P2W as invented renown hearts to replace the kill 10 rats concept, and the scouts instead of the quest log,
They just hired a psychologist to invent words to distract people from the real thing.
Other MMOs are based on gear so that is the general idea of what a P2W is, so people think that of the endgame.
The endgame in GW2 is based on grinding skins to look better, so all they have in the shop is going around that philosophy.
Even the “we don’t think grinding is fun” from their Manifesto has turned out to be a false statement while everything in the game is based on grinding.
Look at this, you cant even finish your storyline like in a normal single player $60 game without grinding between levels.

Uhhhh. are you serious? Convenience was not a word “invented” by anet, having a flashy resource gathering tool does not put you “on top” of anything, and while it’s NOT a single player, you can for sure finish the story without grinding.

Even if you have to grind up a few levels it takes like an evening. If you’re lazy. You ever played final fantasy? Did you know you have to grind up levels before you can advance the story in that too?

How am I even supposed to pretend to take this seriously?

I dumped gold on this because I like fire. That, and just yesterday I was running around one map and ran out of both my sickle and ax with no nearby vendors that sold higher leveled tools (I don’t like to grab the lower ones since I tend to forget which ones I have equipped.. leading to ruined gathers), and I didn’t want to waypoint just to grab new ones. One thought I had during that was along the lines of, “Well at least I can’t run out of my pick too.”

whiran.1473:

Vayne.8563:

Kasama.8941:

I don’t farm nearly enough to make the price of this worth it. I can get 25 Orichalcum Mining Picks for 1 gold, that’s 2,500 uses. More then enough to last me a long time. Also, drawing more attention to yourself in WvW while you’re gathering a node, is a bad idea.

Unless you have a bunch of friends stealthed nearby and use it as a lure.

That’s the wrong way to look at it. Look at it this way: How LONG does it take you to resupply your picks? Do you ever run out of picks while mining? Do you have to go back to a vendor because you forgot to pick up picks? Even if you include pick buying as part of your routine in a town it still takes time to go to the vendor and buy the pick.

Buying the gem mining pick is just a matter of convenience and will save you TIME. How much is your time worth to you? How much gold do you make in the game per hour?

It takes quite a long time for me to spend the picks, as I rarely go on “farm runs”, but just pick up the nodes I see on my mini map. I always carry spare, in case my equipped picks run out, so that’s not really a problem either. Buying new picks is simply something I do, while I’m also selling items at a merchant. And the merchants that sell orichalcum picks are all over the place, in Lion’s Arch, Fractals, WvW, and the major cities. Getting 4 silver is ridiculously easy. I easily make over 1 gold in the course of a few hours, just by playing casually. There’s really no reason for me to spend 25 gold, or 800 gems, on an endless pick. It’s a waste of money.

I agree with OP. Definitely not worth 10 dollars for this.

Whats the ROI for GW2 itself?

Geotherma.2395:

Whats the ROI for GW2 itself?

Any return of investment calculation was based on ingame currency to determine how long/often you would need to use the pick to save up as much gold as it costs (calculated by gold/gem ratio). As GW2 cannot be bought with ingame currency, and you cannot convert ingame currency back to real world currency (unless you break the rules and become a goldseller) your question is as invalid as it is rethorical.

Counterquestion: I paid €40 for the game, the pick costs €10 in gems. Do you think 4 of these picks are worth as much as a complete game account?

good answer shikigami….:D

If you consider that today around 25 gold is 800 gems then I feel it’s justified.

However, paying 10 euros for a 800 gem pick is overpriced IMO. I’d rather pay 5 times as much for a full expansion pack that will bring content for us that will be so much more diverse, enjoyable and lasting than an endless mining pick which can easily be replaced by buying a couple of orichalcum pick from time to time.

Shikigami.4013:

Geotherma.2395:

Whats the ROI for GW2 itself?

Any return of investment calculation was based on ingame currency to determine how long/often you would need to use the pick to save up as much gold as it costs (calculated by gold/gem ratio). As GW2 cannot be bought with ingame currency, and you cannot convert ingame currency back to real world currency (unless you break the rules and become a goldseller) your question is as invalid as it is rethorical.

Counterquestion: I paid €40 for the game, the pick costs €10 in gems. Do you think 4 of these picks are worth as much as a complete game account?

Change pick to expansion, and ask that question again. If it is considered an add-on for the game, much like an expansion is, then I doubt anyone would be having this conversation. What if the entire F&F story + the pick is $10? Was it worth it? People will pay what they believe is of value to them, that value does not have to be monetary. Truly the only ones who care about the ROI of these picks are the ones who don’t want them. So wouldn’t at that point the entire conversation be moot? Wouldn’t a better question be to ask players what it is worth to them? Did you have fun when you bought it? Was it enjoyable? Has it saved you time and convenience? I see yes’s to all these questions from those who bought them. Obviously they are convenience/fashion items and no more. The in game gold value is negligible, and has no bearing on most people’s view of it. Furthermore, if people bought the pic using gold>gems, then how much was that time worth to them? They literally spent no real world worth on that item. They are not paid to play the game; therefore their time is not money. They chose to spend the gold, and receive the pickaxe.

But to answer your question, yes I believe something with the words “unlimited” is worth that much of the game. As it has already given me the ROI that I feel was fair, that being pure enjoyment and convenience of having it. Also, if you cannot afford the pickaxe with real world money, then simply don’t buy it. I see a lot of flaming against those who did. It seems a lot more like jealousy than true constructive criticism on the topic at hand. How are any of the games pixels worth anything after all? It is but a game, something we do as a hobby, or past time. Therefore any further purchases must be for convenience, and not for return on your investment. Because in no way at this point will playing the game garner you wages as a regular player without doing something illegal.

But finally, I ask you if you pay for your internet. If you do, and you sleep through 8 hours a day of that paid for service, aren’t you technically losing money? The only thing lost in the game is time, and we pay ourselves that. If you cannot afford to set aside time, which in sense is a currency, then you aren’t able to purchase this in the first place with gold. And the pickaxe saves you time, so in essence, over a period of time you are getting your currencies worth (time) back from buying this.

If that all sounded confusing; that’s because it is, because the discussion itself is confusing and sort of pointless. You and others are arguing that you get no fast return on investment; others are arguing they received a ROI in the form of time, convenience, and visual satisfaction. If you notice, those two arguments aren’t even arguments-hence why this giant pointless thread is leading nowhere.

This giant pointless thread has a point, which is to share thoughts on why players would or would not buy this endless pick for its price.
Sure people may disagree or agree with the reasons but that’s mkay.

Geotherma.2395:

If that all sounded confusing; that’s because it is, because the discussion itself is confusing and sort of pointless. You and others are arguing that you get no fast return on investment; others are arguing they received a ROI in the form of time, convenience, and visual satisfaction. If you notice, those two arguments aren’t even arguments-hence why this giant pointless thread is leading nowhere.

Actually I never said anything about return of investment before commenting on your odd question. My only statement in this thread had been that I am not buying the pick because it is soulbound and not account bound. I also do not see what this huge reply had to do with my post, so you were right with the “confusing” thing.

Shikigami.4013:

Geotherma.2395:

If that all sounded confusing; that’s because it is, because the discussion itself is confusing and sort of pointless. You and others are arguing that you get no fast return on investment; others are arguing they received a ROI in the form of time, convenience, and visual satisfaction. If you notice, those two arguments aren’t even arguments-hence why this giant pointless thread is leading nowhere.

Actually I never said anything about return of investment before commenting on your odd question. My only statement in this thread had been that I am not buying the pick because it is soulbound and not account bound. I also do not see what this huge reply had to do with my post, so you were right with the “confusing” thing.

It was about the entire thread, not just you. Everything can be summerized as:

1. It costs too much(Opinion)
2. I can’t make money from it right away. (Not the purpose of the item)
3. It is soulbound (Just like every other skinned item)

But it went from those statements to-

1. It’s worthless.
2. It is a waste of money.
3. Arenanet is charging people too much and will fail.
4. I’m not rich enough to buy it like other people.
5. People who wasted their money on this are stupid and won’t see their ROI for years.

Why people can’t simply use the thread to post why “they” didn’t get the pickaxe, instead of throwing tantrums and belittling those who did is beyond me. Holding an intellectual conversion on this forum is about as easy as holding lava…

This isn’t stated at you, it is just my opinion. And unlike others I haven’t shaped my opinion into a giant ugly stick and tried to beat others in the face with it.

Just curious, so I’m surveying. Who actually bought a a Fusion Pickaxe with real money instead of gold to gems?

I bought 3 that way. Why do you ask?

Gold to gems for me. However im only mentioning because I ‘wanted’ to purchase with real money. but too skint at the minute to fork the cash out.

Additionally its prob worth mentioning I think its one of the best additions to the cash shop, purely because of the total lack of RNG elements for once.

why would you buy it with any kind of money?

I’m just wondering how successful this is, because the gemstore is a weird combination of a cash shop and ingame shop.

If things are priced too high, people will usually not use real money. If priced too little, people will use ingame gold as well.

What is the middle ground where ANET earns profit? I’ve been reading a lot of stories about the pickaxe, so I’m just wondering about it.

Nuka Cola.8520:

why would you buy it with any kind of money?

Real life cash may be easier to come by than in-game gold for some.

I did. If I didn’t have to fix my cars brakes I would have bought about 10. Maybe if it is still around when I have cash again.

is no one considering the possibility of a new kind of ore being introduced in expansion packs

lupercaleb.6041:

is no one considering the possibility of a new kind of ore being introduced in expansion packs

It isn’t planned or being worked on at the moment. The logical assumption would be arenanet would like not to anger tons of paying customers by making this not upgradeable in the future. And the introduction of new ore does not necessarily mean it will be a higher tier. Just possible more rare, or harder to get to.

Besides, they don’t even have any expansions planned. If you worry about something becoming not useful a year from now so you won’t spend money on it now, you probably don’t have any nice things.

Kain Francois.4328:

I’m just wondering how successful this is, because the gemstore is a weird combination of a cash shop and ingame shop.

If things are priced too high, people will usually not use real money. If priced too little, people will use ingame gold as well.

What is the middle ground where ANET earns profit? I’ve been reading a lot of stories about the pickaxe, so I’m just wondering about it.

All gems bought with gold were originally bought with cash; That means that ANet gets the full $10 for 800 gems whenever somebody buys a pick, regardless of whether they used gold conversion or not.

Heck, gold conversion acts as a gold sink due to TP taxes, making it slightly better for the health of the game overall. The molten pick has also caused an increase in the value of gems to gold, which results in buying gems to sell them for gold being more appealing.

The middle ground for what’s best is the point at which the average user can afford to exchange gold for gems, but the price is high enough that it’s worthwhile to buy gems for gold. That is, the point at which there are a large number of users who can afford gems with gold, while the exchange rate to gold is good enough to be appealing for gem sellers. If the price of gems gets too high, less users can afford to buy gems, and a single seller has to buy less gems to get the amount they want; result is sellers buy less gems, some players don’t get gems at all, and maybe some more players buy gems because they can’t afford gold conversion, but less gems are likely bought overall. If the price of gems gets too low, nobody will be willing to sell them (but lack of supply pushes the price back up sooner or later)

I am not an economist, but it’s very likely the optimum state of the gem exchange is more somewhere in the middle, as far as I can tell.

Edit: also, I bought one pick with real money. I don’t mind a good excuse to help support ANet. Or, if you see it differently to me, a bad excuse, but still.

I bought 2, and 20 of the dyes.

So basically spent 50 bucks.

Bought 5 Molten Alliance Picks for all my 5 alts with real money. I’m a fairly slow player who just doesn’t have the gold income to turn into gems. (Besides, I’m saving up for some T3 Culturals and I need the gold.)

Was actually debating buying a 6th for future characters in case ANet releases the Tengu as a playable race, but I reckon the odds of the MA pick, or another unbreakable pick, showing up again in the future is pretty good considering what a sales success it’s turned out to be.

I bought 3 with cash. I have lots of cash though, and this my hobby. No matter how I slice it, it’s far cheaper than golf.

danbuter.2314:

Nuka Cola.8520:

why would you buy it with any kind of money?

Real life cash may be easier to come by than in-game gold for some.

Not only an infinite mining pick is useless because the normal ones are cheap but spending 10$ for pixels and pixels that aren’t even useful is kinda funny imo. Like not because its new YOU have to buy something as worthless…

Nuka Cola.8520:

danbuter.2314:

Nuka Cola.8520:

why would you buy it with any kind of money?

Real life cash may be easier to come by than in-game gold for some.

Not only an infinite mining pick is useless because the normal ones are cheap but spending 10$ for pixels and pixels that aren’t even useful is kinda funny imo. Like not because its new YOU have to buy something as worthless…

People value their money differently. Just because YOU don’t feel it’s worth it doesn’t me I feel the same way. I personally bought two picks for my two most played characters. People spend more on junk food or take out that’s just as worthless to your body.

Nuka Cola.8520:

danbuter.2314:

Nuka Cola.8520:

why would you buy it with any kind of money?

Real life cash may be easier to come by than in-game gold for some.

Not only an infinite mining pick is useless because the normal ones are cheap but spending 10$ for pixels and pixels that aren’t even useful is kinda funny imo. Like not because its new YOU have to buy something as worthless…

One man’s junk is another man’s treasure. Some people collect bottle caps and match books. I wouldn’t but I also wouldn’t judge them. Some people collect Star Wars memorabilia and some of it costs a lot of money. Some people pay money to have fun in games.

For me, it’s more about not having to think about buying picks, not having to swap out to cheaper picks, not running out of picks when I’m in the middle of Orr that makes it worth it to me. It’s a quality of life upgrade. I don’t have to think about it.

I hope they introduce gathering sickles and axes in the future and I can just run around and not think about whether I need to buy more. It’s definitely worth it to me.

Vayne.8563:

I bought 3 with cash. I have lots of cash though, and this my hobby. No matter how I slice it, it’s far cheaper than golf.

For anyone who is still asking/QQ-ing/debating about the picks and why people would actually buy them, this right here, is the model answer!

$10 is also how much you spend for a drink in most bars. Between having a mining pick that lasts forever and a cup of liquid I slurp down in ten to thirty minutes and it’s gone forever, I’ll take the mining pick.

Nuka Cola.8520:

why would you buy it with any kind of money?

Because I’m sure some of us that want to see more real money go into the development of the game. I would have spent more than this for one lousy month of WoW without the constant updates we’re getting; money well spent IMO.

Edit: clarity

I was going to but then I asked myself “how long would it take to get back the 26g?”. Answer was “not that long, just spend the gold”. Besides at 80 once you are all decked out in whatever gear you want, what else is there to do with gold?

People in here complaining about what other people do with THEIR money.

I bought one with cash. Gaming is my hobby and I spend less on it than my neighbor whose hobby is restoring old cars. I think the pick is fun – I’ve already got my $10 worth of enjoyment out of it, so I’m not particularly worried about it not being able to farm ubernodes in the far future, or how many nodes I have to mine to get 18G (which is the amount of gold I could have bought with $10 at the time I purchased the pick) worth of use out of it.

Not only is it good for ANet for folks to spend cash on gems, it’s good for the game that folks are converting their gold into gems. It takes gold out of the economy, which keeps prices down so the more casual folks can afford nice gear, and it makes the gem->gold conversion rate more attractive, which may encourage folks to spend cash on gems to convert them to gold.

Regardless of which way you do it, buying items from the gem store helps the game, so I don’t feel like somehow I did more than the next person by spending cash. I enjoy earning $10 more than I enjoy trying to get 26G together in game (and I can do it a lot faster!). I’d rather spend cash on what I want from the gem store and do whatever I feel like doing in the game instead of worrying about accumulating gold.

Nuka Cola.8520:

danbuter.2314:

Nuka Cola.8520:

why would you buy it with any kind of money?

Real life cash may be easier to come by than in-game gold for some.

Not only an infinite mining pick is useless because the normal ones are cheap but spending 10$ for pixels and pixels that aren’t even useful is kinda funny imo. Like not because its new YOU have to buy something as worthless…

It’s not useless, it picks at ore nodes for me. I buy useless stuff all the time. I’m looking around my lounge room right now at all the CDs, books, and sundry dust gatherers that all cost more than $10. But it’s my money and I can do what I like with it. You may have the right to voice an opinion but sometimes you shouldn’t.

You guys must have missed Second Life where a woman named Anshe Chung made a small fortune (over a million dollars US) selling virtual real estate to people. Pixels have meaning to some of us.

I did, every three months i spend a few bucks in the shop. However right now there isnt much there for me to buy.

Since i have the tendency to run out off pics while exploring i went with it. I know it costs much more then having some in the inventory, but i rather like my space there for the things i find

I thought about it, but ended up using gold. I really do approve of this item, but somehow £8.50 seemed a bit steep for a gathering tool. Especially as I wanted a couple of them.

Nuka Cola.8520:

why would you buy it with any kind of money?

In real life earning money for that pick takes me less then 30 minutes – and i’m from not so rich country. How much does it take you to earn the gold needed while playing?

The bottom line is… The reason why people buy it with money is to save time. For some people it has greater value then any kind of money.

Its up to each individual what they spend there money on…

I think the pick is definitely one of the best items they have added to the gem store…

My only problem with it is why soulbound it? That’s clearly done for pure greed/profit, forcing people to buy more than 1, when it could have easily been account bound…

Some people think of it as supporting the game. By giving them a little money every month or two. They did just give the SAB development team the OK to make new worlds.

I did.
Finally a good purchase in the Gem Store that doesn’t involve RNG or gambling. These kind of convenience items are what I like, and what I will support.

bought 8 for all my chars.
some cash some in game gold.

Tbh saves me the messing about when mining only to find out i’v run out,or cannot equ another one because i’m in combat.
it’s worth that alone.
But i do agree it should only be 400 gems at least,but oh well at least i never have to worry about them running out now.

I bought 500 mining picks instead.