Guild Wars 2

forum bug as always

Tekey.7946:

@Ayrilana I think you’re not even trying to understand what I’m saying. You might want to try to think outside the box, re-read it, put it into context with everything and try to understand.

I understand what you’re saying. I’m just disagreeing with you.

Ayrilana.1396:

Tekey.7946:

@Ayrilana I think you’re not even trying to understand what I’m saying. You might want to try to think outside the box, re-read it, put it into context with everything and try to understand.

I understand what you’re saying. I’m just disagreeing with you.

Is that so? You didn’t even refer to most of my last post. You ignored everything you couldn’t answer and cherry-picked a few points. It doesn’t make sense to discuss further with this narrow point of view.

It seems there’re now two parallel discussions :

On general content design, the GW1 quest system, as well as most other MMO, was far better in my opinion, because what you made as a character made sense. For immersion, it’s far better. GW1 had lots of text to explain the ins and outs of what you were doing. In more recent MMO’s, it’s voiced :p
Yet, in GW2, renown hearts have, say, 3 lines to justify that you 80% of the time just have to slaughter whatever appears red on your screen. Dynamic events may have more indepth (I’m thinking of Orr, or Hinterlands) but are summarized as “follow the tag and kill everything.”
I remember events were supposed to be better for replayability and immersion (“your action really have an effect on the world”) : I think it’s wrong. You don’t feel like you’ve got a purpose, and 10 minutes later, it’ll just start again as if nothing happened. I understand there’s no way to do better in an open system though.

Specifically on Draconis map, that game design lack of quality leads to that kind of artificial replayability. Of course it’s not compulsory to get that backpack. But it’s content. Draconis Mont takes 2 hours to finish when you know it a bit, and the living story episode takes roughly the same. We waited 2 months for half a day of content, and we know we’ll have to wait 2 months for the next one. But there’re achievements to do, and collections to do. Content.
Living Story 2 achievements for glowing armor were far better designed in my opinion, precisely because they weren’t time gated. Of course, story achievements were really tedious, and now they’re better. But you didn’t have to redo the very same things every day, especially when those “things” match the flaws underlined in point 1.

I do miss quests in GW2, they’ve mostly been replaced by collections which do a terrible job of telling a story.

For example, I’m currently crafting Tigris and just did Dragons Stand for one of the tiger refuge sign parts of the collection. You just complete the event and the collection entry completes, that’s it. No story, no sense of doing something relevant to the collection, you don’t interact with a sign over near the tigers the game just… ticks a box and a little notification appears in the feed on the right.

When I compare that with the Hunter’s and Naturalist’s journal parts (which are excellent) it’s especially apparent just how unsatisfying this kind of content is. Just a barebones checklist.

I agree and disagree, while I certainly believe the collection could’ve used a lot more variety, doing the same 4 hearts several times in a row gets to you after a while, luckily some hearts are boring and some hearts are engaging.
But I didn’t want to complain about since I’m already very happy it wasn’t a “collect 500 orchids for the backpack” like all the other zones. In fact, I wouldn’t have minded if the other zones had a similar system, and hope that zone 6 will have a collection-backpack as well

I would like if the condibution to a heart was bigger for doing the unique aspecs of each heart like hacking panels on rata arcanum gave you alot more or fixing golems or freeing prisoners and destroying the turrents with explotions. You know make the unique elements of ech heart reward more. The hearts go by faster and it gives the illusion of uniqueness.

Pifil.5193:

I do miss quests in GW2, they’ve mostly been replaced by collections which do a terrible job of telling a story.

For example, I’m currently crafting Tigris and just did Dragons Stand for one of the tiger refuge sign parts of the collection. You just complete the event and the collection entry completes, that’s it. No story, no sense of doing something relevant to the collection, you don’t interact with a sign over near the tigers the game just… ticks a box and a little notification appears in the feed on the right.

When I compare that with the Hunter’s and Naturalist’s journal parts (which are excellent) it’s especially apparent just how unsatisfying this kind of content is. Just a barebones checklist.

and thee have shown the can do amazing job with quests the shadowstone the rifts the destroyer scythe treasure hunt and the caladbolg closure.

ThomasC.1056:

It seems there’re now two parallel discussions :

On general content design, the GW1 quest system, as well as most other MMO, was far better in my opinion, because what you made as a character made sense. For immersion, it’s far better. GW1 had lots of text to explain the ins and outs of what you were doing. In more recent MMO’s, it’s voiced :p
Yet, in GW2, renown hearts have, say, 3 lines to justify that you 80% of the time just have to slaughter whatever appears red on your screen. Dynamic events may have more indepth (I’m thinking of Orr, or Hinterlands) but are summarized as “follow the tag and kill everything.”
I remember events were supposed to be better for replayability and immersion (“your action really have an effect on the world”) : I think it’s wrong. You don’t feel like you’ve got a purpose, and 10 minutes later, it’ll just start again as if nothing happened. I understand there’s no way to do better in an open system though.

Specifically on Draconis map, that game design lack of quality leads to that kind of artificial replayability. Of course it’s not compulsory to get that backpack. But it’s content. Draconis Mont takes 2 hours to finish when you know it a bit, and the living story episode takes roughly the same. We waited 2 months for half a day of content, and we know we’ll have to wait 2 months for the next one. But there’re achievements to do, and collections to do. Content.
Living Story 2 achievements for glowing armor were far better designed in my opinion, precisely because they weren’t time gated. Of course, story achievements were really tedious, and now they’re better. But you didn’t have to redo the very same things every day, especially when those “things” match the flaws underlined in point 1.

Reality check here. Guild Wars Prophecies had a total of 208 quests. That’s all it had. Guild Wars 2 launched with over 1500 dynamic events.

Some of those quests were move this honeycomb and bait the bees away. Some had story.

Guild Wars 2 however, has scouts and scouts tell a completely voiced story about exactly what’s going on at all the hearts in an area. They’re pretty detailed. They give as much info as quests.

Quest games are not only generally linear, but they’re also static. Here is a story handed to you on a silver platter. Okay, thanks. If I want a story I can read a book.

But the stories in Guild Wars 2 aren’t linear and they’re not told in a linear fashion, making them more like real life than like a game. That is to say NPCs do stuff, say stuff, you can follow them around and watch them interact. They even interact when no one else is there.

There were, before LA was rebuilt, two guards doing their rounds of LA. They talked at at least half a dozen locations, actually more, but I don’t have an exact number. They showed how some elements of the Lionguard had become corrupt. They told how the prejudice against Sylvari was spreading. They told a story about how the rebuilding was coming and how people dealt with it. There’s plenty of story telling in this game. It’s just not in your face storytelling handed to you on a silver platter. You have to dig for it, much like real life. I don’t go into new areas in real life and get a breadcrumb trail. I learn stuff by talking to people, listening to conversations around me. Watching what’s going on.

In fact, the number of quests in all four original Guild Wars products is less than the number of dynamic events in this game at launch. In addition, some of those dynamic event chains tell quite complex stories, including the temples in Orr and the meta events in HoT.

But even stuff like the Visier’s Tower in Straits of Devestation has a lot of information there. Again, it’s just not handed to you. You have to work to get it.

Some of us, probably those who have played old adventure games, are more likely to go the extra mile, talk to NPCs and piece together stuff.

If you don’t believe that much story/lore is in the game, you should watch Wooden Potatoes lore videos. There’s a ton of story here. You don’t get it from an individual heart, or an individual dynamic event or an individual scout. You get pieces from all over and you have to build it up yourself.

I personally find that more rewarding.

Vayne.8563:

ThomasC.1056:

It seems there’re now two parallel discussions :

On general content design, the GW1 quest system, as well as most other MMO, was far better in my opinion, because what you made as a character made sense. For immersion, it’s far better. GW1 had lots of text to explain the ins and outs of what you were doing. In more recent MMO’s, it’s voiced :p
Yet, in GW2, renown hearts have, say, 3 lines to justify that you 80% of the time just have to slaughter whatever appears red on your screen. Dynamic events may have more indepth (I’m thinking of Orr, or Hinterlands) but are summarized as “follow the tag and kill everything.”
I remember events were supposed to be better for replayability and immersion (“your action really have an effect on the world”) : I think it’s wrong. You don’t feel like you’ve got a purpose, and 10 minutes later, it’ll just start again as if nothing happened. I understand there’s no way to do better in an open system though.

Specifically on Draconis map, that game design lack of quality leads to that kind of artificial replayability. Of course it’s not compulsory to get that backpack. But it’s content. Draconis Mont takes 2 hours to finish when you know it a bit, and the living story episode takes roughly the same. We waited 2 months for half a day of content, and we know we’ll have to wait 2 months for the next one. But there’re achievements to do, and collections to do. Content.
Living Story 2 achievements for glowing armor were far better designed in my opinion, precisely because they weren’t time gated. Of course, story achievements were really tedious, and now they’re better. But you didn’t have to redo the very same things every day, especially when those “things” match the flaws underlined in point 1.

Reality check here. Guild Wars Prophecies had a total of 208 quests. That’s all it had. Guild Wars 2 launched with over 1500 dynamic events.

Some of those quests were move this honeycomb and bait the bees away. Some had story.

Guild Wars 2 however, has scouts and scouts tell a completely voiced story about exactly what’s going on at all the hearts in an area. They’re pretty detailed. They give as much info as quests.

Quest games are not only generally linear, but they’re also static. Here is a story handed to you on a silver platter. Okay, thanks. If I want a story I can read a book.

But the stories in Guild Wars 2 aren’t linear and they’re not told in a linear fashion, making them more like real life than like a game. That is to say NPCs do stuff, say stuff, you can follow them around and watch them interact. They even interact when no one else is there.

There were, before LA was rebuilt, two guards doing their rounds of LA. They talked at at least half a dozen locations, actually more, but I don’t have an exact number. They showed how some elements of the Lionguard had become corrupt. They told how the prejudice against Sylvari was spreading. They told a story about how the rebuilding was coming and how people dealt with it. There’s plenty of story telling in this game. It’s just not in your face storytelling handed to you on a silver platter. You have to dig for it, much like real life. I don’t go into new areas in real life and get a breadcrumb trail. I learn stuff by talking to people, listening to conversations around me. Watching what’s going on.

In fact, the number of quests in all four original Guild Wars products is less than the number of dynamic events in this game at launch. In addition, some of those dynamic event chains tell quite complex stories, including the temples in Orr and the meta events in HoT.

But even stuff like the Visier’s Tower in Straits of Devestation has a lot of information there. Again, it’s just not handed to you. You have to work to get it.

Some of us, probably those who have played old adventure games, are more likely to go the extra mile, talk to NPCs and piece together stuff.

If you don’t believe that much story/lore is in the game, you should watch Wooden Potatoes lore videos. There’s a ton of story here. You don’t get it from an individual heart, or an individual dynamic event or an individual scout. You get pieces from all over and you have to build it up yourself.

I personally find that more rewarding.

i can understand that and i have experienced that in the game but 10 days in and i dont feel that with draconis its ust another daily thing you do

zealex.9410:

Vayne.8563:

ThomasC.1056:

It seems there’re now two parallel discussions :

On general content design, the GW1 quest system, as well as most other MMO, was far better in my opinion, because what you made as a character made sense. For immersion, it’s far better. GW1 had lots of text to explain the ins and outs of what you were doing. In more recent MMO’s, it’s voiced :p
Yet, in GW2, renown hearts have, say, 3 lines to justify that you 80% of the time just have to slaughter whatever appears red on your screen. Dynamic events may have more indepth (I’m thinking of Orr, or Hinterlands) but are summarized as “follow the tag and kill everything.”
I remember events were supposed to be better for replayability and immersion (“your action really have an effect on the world”) : I think it’s wrong. You don’t feel like you’ve got a purpose, and 10 minutes later, it’ll just start again as if nothing happened. I understand there’s no way to do better in an open system though.

Specifically on Draconis map, that game design lack of quality leads to that kind of artificial replayability. Of course it’s not compulsory to get that backpack. But it’s content. Draconis Mont takes 2 hours to finish when you know it a bit, and the living story episode takes roughly the same. We waited 2 months for half a day of content, and we know we’ll have to wait 2 months for the next one. But there’re achievements to do, and collections to do. Content.
Living Story 2 achievements for glowing armor were far better designed in my opinion, precisely because they weren’t time gated. Of course, story achievements were really tedious, and now they’re better. But you didn’t have to redo the very same things every day, especially when those “things” match the flaws underlined in point 1.

Reality check here. Guild Wars Prophecies had a total of 208 quests. That’s all it had. Guild Wars 2 launched with over 1500 dynamic events.

Some of those quests were move this honeycomb and bait the bees away. Some had story.

Guild Wars 2 however, has scouts and scouts tell a completely voiced story about exactly what’s going on at all the hearts in an area. They’re pretty detailed. They give as much info as quests.

Quest games are not only generally linear, but they’re also static. Here is a story handed to you on a silver platter. Okay, thanks. If I want a story I can read a book.

But the stories in Guild Wars 2 aren’t linear and they’re not told in a linear fashion, making them more like real life than like a game. That is to say NPCs do stuff, say stuff, you can follow them around and watch them interact. They even interact when no one else is there.

There were, before LA was rebuilt, two guards doing their rounds of LA. They talked at at least half a dozen locations, actually more, but I don’t have an exact number. They showed how some elements of the Lionguard had become corrupt. They told how the prejudice against Sylvari was spreading. They told a story about how the rebuilding was coming and how people dealt with it. There’s plenty of story telling in this game. It’s just not in your face storytelling handed to you on a silver platter. You have to dig for it, much like real life. I don’t go into new areas in real life and get a breadcrumb trail. I learn stuff by talking to people, listening to conversations around me. Watching what’s going on.

In fact, the number of quests in all four original Guild Wars products is less than the number of dynamic events in this game at launch. In addition, some of those dynamic event chains tell quite complex stories, including the temples in Orr and the meta events in HoT.

But even stuff like the Visier’s Tower in Straits of Devestation has a lot of information there. Again, it’s just not handed to you. You have to work to get it.

Some of us, probably those who have played old adventure games, are more likely to go the extra mile, talk to NPCs and piece together stuff.

If you don’t believe that much story/lore is in the game, you should watch Wooden Potatoes lore videos. There’s a ton of story here. You don’t get it from an individual heart, or an individual dynamic event or an individual scout. You get pieces from all over and you have to build it up yourself.

I personally find that more rewarding.

i can understand that and i have experienced that in the game but 10 days in and i dont feel that with draconis its ust another daily thing you do

I’ve already said twice now that I don’t like the event the way it’s handled. The person I quoted is saying static quests are somehow better/superior than what we have, particularly when involved in story telling. You can’t judge the whole system on one flawed collection is what I’m saying.

yes i agree i just say for the fact that this needs to be done for mroe than 2 weeks its rather meh

Vayne.8563:

Reality check here. Guild Wars Prophecies had a total of 208 quests. That’s all it had. Guild Wars 2 launched with over 1500 dynamic events.

And that refers to which part of ThomasC’s post? He never claimed there were more quests in GW1 than events in GW2. However, if you want to see it that way, you didn’t even consider that there are tons of events which take just 1 or 2 minutes to complete. Plus, it doesn’t matter if you escort a pack pull in Queensdale or a Dolyak in Wayfarer Foothills, it’s basically the same event.

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 however, has scouts and scouts tell a completely voiced story about exactly what’s going on at all the hearts in an area. They’re pretty detailed. They give as much info as quests.

You mean the NPC’s telling you where to find certain heart quests? Let’s take a look at them:

Corporal Nim Callahan: “Best watch your step in this area. My Seraph brothers and sisters maintain an outpost just north of here, but we’re spread thin and constantly harassed by nearby bandits. The outlaws have three fortified camps to the west as well, so be careful. Anything you can do to secure this area would be appreciated.”

Ok we’ve got a description of the area. “As much information as a quest?” what does this even mean? A quest could tell you this story: A worried mother begs you to find the pirates that kidnapped her son. After you defeated the pirates and found the son, he’s telling you that he’s alright, and that he faked the kidnapping because he wanted to live his own life, he didn’t want to take advice from his mother anymore because she already planned his entire future. He hands over a letter you should bring back to his mother. After you brought her the letter, she’s telling you that she had no idea that he didn’t want to become a normal merchand and that she accepts his decision even though it means that he becomes a pirate.

Which event, which heart quest and which NPC scout in GW2 can tell you a story like that?

Vayne.8563:

Quest games are not only generally linear, but they’re also static. Here is a story handed to you on a silver platter. Okay, thanks. If I want a story I can read a book.

I already provided enough examples (Star Wars The Old Republic, The Elder Scrolls Online) to prove that you can have the chance to make your own decisions, let villains die or cooperate with them, lie to your allies, act corruptly and just care for the money. These types of quests are not linear and static. GW2 events however don’t provide any sort of decisions you can make (except for: do the event? yes/no).

Vayne.8563:

In fact, the number of quests in all four original Guild Wars products is less than the number of dynamic events in this game at launch.

And that still doesn’t mean that those events contain more story than the quests in GW1. It doesn’t change anything if you mention the numbers twice.

Vayne.8563:

In addition, some of those dynamic event chains tell quite complex stories, including the temples in Orr and the meta events in HoT.

But even stuff like the Visier’s Tower in Straits of Devestation has a lot of information there. Again, it’s just not handed to you. You have to work to get it.

Some of us, probably those who have played old adventure games, are more likely to go the extra mile, talk to NPCs and piece together stuff.

I’ve explored almost every inch of the core Tyria maps, even found the hidden sights like the cerebro jumping puzzle in Caledon Forest. GW2 doesn’t contain as much story as you’re claiming.

Vayne.8563:

If you don’t believe that much story/lore is in the game, you should watch Wooden Potatoes lore videos. There’s a ton of story here. You don’t get it from an individual heart, or an individual dynamic event or an individual scout. You get pieces from all over and you have to build it up yourself.

I personally find that more rewarding.

I’ve watched many of them and most of the time he’s combining old Guild Wars 1 lore with new insights of Guild Wars 2. How things changed in Tyria, what old relicts could have an impact on the current Living Story,… just like I’m aware of that_shamans map which provides the exact position of some areas of GW1 in relation to the GW2 map. Most of the times, these old places are nothing more but ruins (sights on the map) in GW2. They don’t have any purpose anymore other than pointing out that there’s been something 250 years ago.

On the side topic that popped up, there are some good collection stories. I thought “Lessons Learned” was great.

and the meme that the seeds are disabled makes it all the better

Tekey.7946:

Djinn.9245:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

At least there’s guaranteed progression. Could be RNG like some certain Spoons that can take forever to drop.

What would be your idea to keep players in a particular map for a couple of weeks without repeating content?

One thought: Don’t try to attain the backpack in just 16 days. Spread it out over 2 or 3 months so it does not seem quite so repetitive.

Pro-tip: Never try key-running.

Good luck.

I completely agree. It’s like “Hungry Hal” – everyone complained what a grind it was to run back and forth with one apple 50 times in a row. But no one said you had to do it 50 times in a row. When I feel like going back to that map, I run Hal 2 or 3 apples. Eventually I’ll have it done. I see no benefit in having it done faster.

No, people were upset to see that type of quest in GW2. I can remember people saying there’s no difference to other generic MMORPG starter quests. Many other games have some pretty interesting story lines in quests that might or might not include grind. But Anet decided to implement a ridiculous “gather 0/50 apples and bring them over there” quest with absolutely no story at all.

The same with the druid runestone. You’ll hear some lines of the druid but doing the same freaking starter heart quests 64 times has absolutely no value in terms of storytelling or gameplay. It’s just insulting, that’s how bad it is. 64 times: kill 0/30 mercenaries. kill 0/30 spiders. kill 0/30 inquest researchers. Wow. That’s the best game design I’ve ever seen.

A game that claims to be different, but introduces you to the most ridiculous, never ending tasks in its end game PVE zones, that’s what GW2 is right now. If that’s the direction Anet chose, it’s really, really sad to see what “Guild Wars” 2 has become – I don’t even want to call it Guild Wars anymore. And I hope for everyone that the next expansion will bring some fresh air.

What I saw in the Hungry Hal thread was people complaining that it was too long and boring. However I agree that this type of quest is very generic MMO.

That being said, I think that Anet had a lot of grand ideas for how GW2 was going to be different, and better, than a generic MMO. Some of the ideas were successful. But I think that they found out that innovation costs more money, and doing things differently and more creatively costs more money. If you do things that other games have already done, you know how to do that. If you try to create new ways of doing things, you have to spend time figuring out how that would work. You have to try to think of how the players will exploit the new way of doing things, etc. And more story = spending time deciding where you want the story to go and then writing it.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t do more MMO innovation, but it is expensive and GW2 doesn’t have subscriptions.

actually there are a lot of dynamic quests with as much or more story than what you listed.
funny you brought up the wanna be pirate quest
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/An_Unlikely_Pirate

any how, if you pay attention, a lot of these old dynamic quest lines have some story behind, and around them. I dont know how well new zones measure up, and its notable, that these would be considered 5 quests.

anyhow, yeah hearts tend to be the lame version of quests, imo their best execution is when they are essentially just bonus exp for doing events in the area.

but i wouldnt underestimate dynamic events ability to tell stories, the main problem, is i think they were more buggy, and less easy to develop the good ones than they hoped.

they also were hard for them to properly incentivize, and many people never knew they existed.
i suppose now, with their current tools, like specific dynamic event rewards, collections, and better dynamic event announcement, they could make some pretty good stories, but they probably feel it has a low return for a substanially more complex development

Djinn.9245:

Tekey.7946:

Djinn.9245:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

At least there’s guaranteed progression. Could be RNG like some certain Spoons that can take forever to drop.

What would be your idea to keep players in a particular map for a couple of weeks without repeating content?

One thought: Don’t try to attain the backpack in just 16 days. Spread it out over 2 or 3 months so it does not seem quite so repetitive.

Pro-tip: Never try key-running.

Good luck.

I completely agree. It’s like “Hungry Hal” – everyone complained what a grind it was to run back and forth with one apple 50 times in a row. But no one said you had to do it 50 times in a row. When I feel like going back to that map, I run Hal 2 or 3 apples. Eventually I’ll have it done. I see no benefit in having it done faster.

No, people were upset to see that type of quest in GW2. I can remember people saying there’s no difference to other generic MMORPG starter quests. Many other games have some pretty interesting story lines in quests that might or might not include grind. But Anet decided to implement a ridiculous “gather 0/50 apples and bring them over there” quest with absolutely no story at all.

The same with the druid runestone. You’ll hear some lines of the druid but doing the same freaking starter heart quests 64 times has absolutely no value in terms of storytelling or gameplay. It’s just insulting, that’s how bad it is. 64 times: kill 0/30 mercenaries. kill 0/30 spiders. kill 0/30 inquest researchers. Wow. That’s the best game design I’ve ever seen.

A game that claims to be different, but introduces you to the most ridiculous, never ending tasks in its end game PVE zones, that’s what GW2 is right now. If that’s the direction Anet chose, it’s really, really sad to see what “Guild Wars” 2 has become – I don’t even want to call it Guild Wars anymore. And I hope for everyone that the next expansion will bring some fresh air.

What I saw in the Hungry Hal thread was people complaining that it was too long and boring. However I agree that this type of quest is very generic MMO.

That being said, I think that Anet had a lot of grand ideas for how GW2 was going to be different, and better, than a generic MMO. Some of the ideas were successful. But I think that they found out that innovation costs more money, and doing things differently and more creatively costs more money. If you do things that other games have already done, you know how to do that. If you try to create new ways of doing things, you have to spend time figuring out how that would work. You have to try to think of how the players will exploit the new way of doing things, etc. And more story = spending time deciding where you want the story to go and then writing it.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t do more MMO innovation, but it is expensive and GW2 doesn’t have subscriptions.

You should always am to inovate its the best bet for a company and for a developer. A stale product has stale results.

Tekey.7946:

Vayne.8563:

Reality check here. Guild Wars Prophecies had a total of 208 quests. That’s all it had. Guild Wars 2 launched with over 1500 dynamic events.

snip

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 however, has scouts and scouts tell a completely voiced story about exactly what’s going on at all the hearts in an area. They’re pretty detailed. They give as much info as quests.

You mean the NPC’s telling you where to find certain heart quests? Let’s take a look at them:

Corporal Nim Callahan: “Best watch your step in this area. My Seraph brothers and sisters maintain an outpost just north of here, but we’re spread thin and constantly harassed by nearby bandits. The outlaws have three fortified camps to the west as well, so be careful. Anything you can do to secure this area would be appreciated.”

snip

Vayne.8563:

Quest games are not only generally linear, but they’re also static. Here is a story handed to you on a silver platter. Okay, thanks. If I want a story I can read a book.

I already provided enough examples (Star Wars The Old Republic, The Elder Scrolls Online) to prove that you can have the chance to make your own decisions, let villains die or cooperate with them, lie to your allies, act corruptly and just care for the money. These types of quests are not linear and static. GW2 events however don’t provide any sort of decisions you can make (except for: do the event? yes/no).

Vayne.8563:

In fact, the number of quests in all four original Guild Wars products is less than the number of dynamic events in this game at launch.

And that still doesn’t mean that those events contain more story than the quests in GW1. It doesn’t change anything if you mention the numbers twice.

Vayne.8563:

In addition, some of those dynamic event chains tell quite complex stories, including the temples in Orr and the meta events in HoT.

But even stuff like the Visier’s Tower in Straits of Devestation has a lot of information there. Again, it’s just not handed to you. You have to work to get it.

Some of us, probably those who have played old adventure games, are more likely to go the extra mile, talk to NPCs and piece together stuff.

I’ve explored almost every inch of the core Tyria maps, even found the hidden sights like the cerebro jumping puzzle in Caledon Forest. GW2 doesn’t contain as much story as you’re claiming.

Vayne.8563:

If you don’t believe that much story/lore is in the game, you should watch Wooden Potatoes lore videos. There’s a ton of story here. You don’t get it from an individual heart, or an individual dynamic event or an individual scout. You get pieces from all over and you have to build it up yourself.

I personally find that more rewarding.

I’ve watched many of them and most of the time he’s combining old Guild Wars 1 lore with new insights of Guild Wars 2. How things changed in Tyria, what old relicts could have an impact on the current Living Story,… just like I’m aware of that_shamans map which provides the exact position of some areas of GW1 in relation to the GW2 map. Most of the times, these old places are nothing more but ruins (sights on the map) in GW2. They don’t have any purpose anymore other than pointing out that there’s been something 250 years ago.

He directly said in his post that the old static quest style is superior for telling stories. I’m directly disagreeing with that. The numbers were brought into it to show that there’s a lot less going on in that game and it’s linear. It’s one way to tell a story but not necessarily the best way to tell the story.

The story here is more like a puzzle with a lot more pieces. I prefer this, but I’m just pointing out you can absolutely tell stories here as good as static quests in other games. You can’t use one bad dynamic event and an example of why old quests are superior.

Because I can do the same thing. Go and pick the worst quest in Guild Wars 1 and say that quests in Guild Wars 1 are inferior. I choose not to do that, because it’s misleading.

We’re talking about whether this particular quest is boring and I believe it is. But I also don’t believe that’s a barometer that can be used for dynamic events vs static quests.

This is definitely a better way to get the back item, then the previous LS3 maps. I only have 1 of them, because it was so annoying and dull to gather the resources… Here at least we have some interaction, and farming hears is much faster too. I consider it another daily.

Vayne.8563:

He directly said in his post that the old static quest style is superior for telling stories. I’m directly disagreeing with that. The numbers were brought into it to show that there’s a lot less going on in that game and it’s linear. It’s one way to tell a story but not necessarily the best way to tell the story.

The story here is more like a puzzle with a lot more pieces. I prefer this, but I’m just pointing out you can absolutely tell stories here as good as static quests in other games. You can’t use one bad dynamic event and an example of why old quests are superior.

Because I can do the same thing. Go and pick the worst quest in Guild Wars 1 and say that quests in Guild Wars 1 are inferior. I choose not to do that, because it’s misleading.

We’re talking about whether this particular quest is boring and I believe it is. But I also don’t believe that’s a barometer that can be used for dynamic events vs static quests.

Alright I agree, they’re clearly too different in every way to compare them properly. And of course, there’s no measurement referring to the “boringness”.

Getting back to the initial topic, I just hope that Anet will change the direction in the next expansion. Getting a back item of a season 3 map described either farming 200 blood rubies/jade shards/petrified wood/… or doing heart quests 64 times on 16 different days because of time gates.

I love quests that are legitimate “going off on a quest”. An adventure. I don’t think the open-world in mmorpgs are good at that. Is why those things are done in the personal story and living world story. But it would amazing if an mmorpg could do stuff like that in the open world.

I dont look for story in achievement quests to be honest.
If you compare with GW1 then achievements in GW2 have more story than in GW1.

Dynamic events and heart tasks together are supposed to be the quests in GW2. They are experienced a little different than traditional quests however. So saying they are like 1500 vs 200 or whichever isnt entirely fair. I would say a GW1 traditional quest generally has more value than 1 event or 1 heart task. Depending on which one youre talking about, obviously.

Tekey.7946:

Ayrilana.1396:

Tekey.7946:

@Ayrilana I think you’re not even trying to understand what I’m saying. You might want to try to think outside the box, re-read it, put it into context with everything and try to understand.

I understand what you’re saying. I’m just disagreeing with you.

Is that so? You didn’t even refer to most of my last post. You ignored everything you couldn’t answer and cherry-picked a few points. It doesn’t make sense to discuss further with this narrow point of view.

I didn’t cherry pick. I stated that a lot of what you said could be resolved by simply following the story. I’m not going to sit here and explain how such and such occurred or didn’t occur and why when doing the story answers that.

You feel achievements should have a story. I disagree as there’s no need to which I compared them to being just about equivalent to GW1’s titles.

You feel that hearts have no story. I disagreed because there are a lot that do if you speak to the NPC. The dialogue adds some depth to what it is that you’re trying to accomplish for the NPC. Many players don’t realize this because progress towards the heart can be made by just being within the vicinity of the heart. There’s also the “thank you” that you get from the NPC after completing a heart.

You claimed that events had no story. I disagreed and stated that quite a lot did including one of the examples you had given. I also stated that the story wasn’t going to be in your face like the story instances but rather you’d have to listen to NPC dialogue and among other things.

You then went on about how stories in the game should be extensive with many choices that impact the story. I disagreed with this needing to be a part of events, hearts, and achievements which is what you started this thread about. You typically won’t see the choices in the living story because it adds compexity which Anet may or may not have the resources to do. Notice how short the stories of each episode are in order to compensate for getting a map with each? These choices are something you’ll see with expansions which we saw with HoT.

Ayrilana.1396:

You then went on about how stories in the game should be extensive with many choices that impact the story. I disagreed with this needing to be a part of events, hearts, and achievements which is what you started this thread about. You typically won’t see the choices in the living story because it adds compexity which Anet may or may not have the resources to do. Notice how short the stories of each episode are in order to compensate for getting a map with each? These choices are something you’ll see with expansions which we saw with HoT.

Just to check on the last point, HoT didn’t provide any quests like that (decisions) but you’re still expecting them to release some with the next expansion? Why do you think they’ll include them next time? Or is it just theoretically, if they ever released those quests, they would come in an expansion?

Tekey.7946:

Ayrilana.1396:

You then went on about how stories in the game should be extensive with many choices that impact the story. I disagreed with this needing to be a part of events, hearts, and achievements which is what you started this thread about. You typically won’t see the choices in the living story because it adds compexity which Anet may or may not have the resources to do. Notice how short the stories of each episode are in order to compensate for getting a map with each? These choices are something you’ll see with expansions which we saw with HoT.

Just to check on the last point, HoT didn’t provide any quests like that (decisions) but you’re still expecting them to release some with the next expansion? Why do you think they’ll include them next time? Or is it just theoretically, if they ever released those quests, they would come in an expansion?

I suggest you play HoT again because you were given choices at least three times. This is why I had suggested that many of your issues would be resolved by playing the stories again because you likely forgot elements.

GW2 doesn’t do quests in the traditional sense so asking whether or not they’ll release quests in the next expansion compared to the previous is pointless. They’ve included choices in previous storylines (i.e. Personal story and HoT) so there no reason to not believe that they would do it for the next expansion. At least one event chain had this in VB tooalthough its impact is fairly minimal.

Ayrilana.1396:

I suggest you play HoT again because you were given choices at least three times. This is why I had suggested that many of your issues would be resolved by playing the stories again because you likely forgot elements.

I do remember one time we had a choice (choosing between two characters). However, it’s been an instanced mission (=cooperative missions), not really comparable with a complete system of (open world) story quests that provide different choices. So I guess we’ll never see those types of quests in GW2.

And did this choice have an impact on the story? Nothing changed, no matter which character you chose. We’ve seen one of them in the Living Story again, the other one didn’t appear yet.

Edit:

They’ve included choices in previous storylines (i.e. Personal story and HoT

And we’ve never come back to the choices of the personal story. Not even the orders seem to exist anymore since we’re all just “the commander”. And no matter if your charr is part of the Blood Legion, Ash Legion or any other legion, it’s all the same right now. Not even the dialogues vary depending on you’re a human, charr, asura, sylvari or norn in the Living Story.

Even worse: in the current episode some humans may have encountered a strange situation, and many claimed that their characters would have acted completely different because of their choices at the character creation. So I guess you could say a choice in GW2 doesn’t have a single impact on the story.

Seriously poor and lazy quest design. So much for the GW2 No grind philosophy.

I rather see more time taken to develop quality content than trash like this. I ignored this achievement but then coming back for the legendary and doing this seriously makes GW2 a chore…

Hope nothing like this is in the expansion.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Vayne.8563:

Doing hearts …simply isn’t fun for me.

Fixed that for… me

Everyone, really. Repeated hearts are a form of creative bankruptcy, because they are much faster and easier to design than event chains. So they can quickly add more “content” to the mini zones.

I have a sinking feeling the new zones in PoF might be full of them, and the managers probably patting themselves on the back what a “great idea” repeatable hearts were.

Now ofc, they work. But there’s nothing they do better than event chains other than being much easier to design and implement. But they lack any form of sense or place in the world. Why would they reset daily? Why do the tasks never change? Why does the place never improve permanently? (Many event chains even include small details to explain their repetition later on)