Guild Wars 2

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Sw chest farming is good for the economy. Dungeon farming is very bad for the economy.

Unless you know why this is the case you aren’t really qualified to talk about what is good and what is bad for the economy. Maybe take a few more economics classes before trying to tell everyone what is good and what is bad for the game.

There’s nothing inherent in dungeon farming that’s bad for the economy. Generating a bunch of gold out of nothing isn’t good for it, but straight-nerfing the gold isn’t an ideal solution, either. Why not just shift the rewards to something more like SW-style rewards, then? Get, like, 20 silver per run plus a bunch of guaranteed rare items and a higher-than-usual chance at Exotics. Increase the token rate. Add a chance for Ascended chests. Something to force the gold to go through the TP (or stay account-bound) rather than straight into the dungeoneer’s pockets without making the content a wasteland.

I read “shifting some rewards”

And I see threads about doomsday for dungeons everywhere. lol

phys.7689:

they are doing very little to make the game feel rewarding or have good incentives for gameplay.

The rewards from the raid, legendary armor precursors, unique skins tied to specific raid bosses etc are all great incentives for gameplay, maybe they will expand it everywhere and we’ll finally get a rewarding game with a working reward system.

Like this game, where they often suggest that the best way to play the game is to ignore the rewards, or if you like a gametype so much, you shouldnt need rewards to play it.

That’s not what the devs are saying though, only forum members. There is still hope.

I was honestly expecting some XP nerf to prevent dungeons from being the obvious way to train tyrian masteries, probably resulting on a huge increase on path selling (which I’m not against btw in the current state of the game).
This reward nerf, however … While I can imagine a cut on spontaneous gold generation as something positive for the economy, I can hardly see how making some content next to useless reward wise can be an overall good move.

maddoctor.2738:

phys.7689:

they are doing very little to make the game feel rewarding or have good incentives for gameplay.

The rewards from the raid, legendary armor precursors, unique skins tied to specific raid bosses etc are all great incentives for gameplay, maybe they will expand it everywhere and we’ll finally get a rewarding game with a working reward system.

Like this game, where they often suggest that the best way to play the game is to ignore the rewards, or if you like a gametype so much, you shouldnt need rewards to play it.

That’s not what the devs are saying though, only forum members. There is still hope.

which they all mentioned as the weekly reward.

the only hope is that they create really interesting non economy based reward structures for content, but lets be honest here.
legendary precursors are only precursors, i fully expect a huge economy grind tied to the finished product.

they really arent adding much to do for people who enjoy challenge

phys.7689:

they really arent adding much to do for people who enjoy challenge

I want to see what NEW and UNIQUE rewards we will get when doing Fractals above 50. And if I’m not mistaken only the legendary armor precursors will be on a weekly timer, so the unique boss skins from the raid will be available more often. Also, we don’t know how exactly we will get any of those, if the RNG behind the precursors is very very limited (like once in 3 runs for example) then the Weekly loot won’t be much of a problem, otherwise people would have more precursors than they would ever need. So it all depends.

Vargamonth.2047:

I was honestly expecting some XP nerf to prevent dungeons from being the obvious way to train tyrian masteries, probably resulting on a huge increase on path selling (which I’m not against btw in the current state of the game).
This reward nerf, however … While I can imagine a cut on spontaneous gold generation as something positive for the economy, I can hardly see how making some content next to useless reward wise can be an overall good move.

I think they’re trying to move in the “unique rewards for unique content” direction, with the fractal level system as the outliar “cash money dungeon” since when they update with a fractal, they update the whole system from 1-100

Of course, it remains to be seen if those next 50 fractal levels are a meaningful increase in difficulty or payout.

Dungeons are now about the stuff from the token vendors, so skins and legendary components, just like raids going forward are about their own set of unique rewards, skins and legendary precursors. Fractals are the “filler content” you can use to make money, as they’re a system designed to be infinitely expandable/scalable in a way the more static dungeons and raid aren’t. For that to work, though, fractals need to appropriately scale up the loot with the challenge level so getting good, spending the effort to get all that AR feels worth the time.

And of course the open world is still the go-to for solo farming, only they’re making it less about volume and more about targeted results, so more about farming for the thing you want and less about farming for gold to buy the thing you want, which should spread the player base out more and generally move people around maps so they aren’t all running the same map for months getting bored.

Now to see if they can actually pull this off.

phys.7689:

Kal Spiro.9745:

ANet doesn’t want you to farm. ANet doesn’t want you to drone mindlessly, they want you to explore and experience their world.

I understand that for some reason some people can only be happy in a game if they’re earning resources and don’t care about anything else. That the actual activity and interaction with the game is meaningless to them, but that’s what ANet actually wants you to be enjoying.

This isn’t meant to hurt anyone, and honestly it’s not hurting anyone in this virtual world that has no significant impact on your actual lives, it’s just meant to try and shift your priorities.

they want you to drone mindlessly in the overworld.
map completion is not that entertaining

the main problem with your theory is that dungeons provide a fundamentally different paradigm (challenge, teamwork, knowledge) than open world play. For many players if they have to run around doing map completion tasks to get ahead, they would rather not play.

Its the equivalent of telling basketball players they should stop playing basketball and start doing decathalons, its a fundamentally different paradigm.

That’s a very bad analogy. You’re playing Guild Wars 2, not Dungeons. Dungeons are a thing within Guild Wars 2, not a separate unrelated event.

The thing about Dungeons is that they will still have all those things you said, and they will still be used for getting the associated skins. So if you enjoy that then Dungeons are still the place to go. But if the only reason you liked dungeons was because you could run it super fast and get a lot of gold out of it, then you’ll have to look elsewhere. This I consider a good thing.

Wow, first they silent nerf my Karma Boosters now this? I’ve never actually been upset but I now I am really regretting pre purchasing :/

PopeUrban.2578:

Vargamonth.2047:

I was honestly expecting some XP nerf to prevent dungeons from being the obvious way to train tyrian masteries, probably resulting on a huge increase on path selling (which I’m not against btw in the current state of the game).
This reward nerf, however … While I can imagine a cut on spontaneous gold generation as something positive for the economy, I can hardly see how making some content next to useless reward wise can be an overall good move.

I think they’re trying to move in the “unique rewards for unique content” direction, with the fractal level system as the outliar “cash money dungeon” since when they update with a fractal, they update the whole system from 1-100

Of course, it remains to be seen if those next 50 fractal levels are a meaningful increase in difficulty or payout.

Dungeons are now about the stuff from the token vendors, so skins and legendary components, just like raids going forward are about their own set of unique rewards, skins and legendary precursors. Fractals are the “filler content” you can use to make money, as they’re a system designed to be infinitely expandable/scalable in a way the more static dungeons and raid aren’t. For that to work, though, fractals need to appropriately scale up the loot with the challenge level so getting good, spending the effort to get all that AR feels worth the time.

And of course the open world is still the go-to for solo farming, only they’re making it less about volume and more about targeted results, so more about farming for the thing you want and less about farming for gold to buy the thing you want, which should spread the player base out more and generally move people around maps so they aren’t all running the same map for months getting bored.

Now to see if they can actually pull this off.

Hmm I didn’t think of it that way before but now I have seen the light.

Joopy.6547:

That short paragraph certainly made it sound like they’re removing certain incentives to play through dungeons.
It must be a small minority but not everyone has the expansion and can do raids so I hope they will improve dungeon rewards another way. I have yet to unlock all the skins (I understand it can also be done in sPvP but not everyone enjoys that game mode).

Yeah I think this would be the ideal. I do think that, fair enough shifting the “liquid rewards” away from dungeons to other parts of the game, but they should replace those rewards with something more… solid… Re-kerjiggering the token quantity/item prices would be a good start. They made sense when the only end-game pve content was repeated dungeon runs, they don’t make much sense now.

If they give 50 gold reward when completing one wing of raid then ok nerf dungeons.
If they give 20 gold reward for finishing fractals then ok nerf dungeons.

I don’t think they will buff drops in dungeons, they don’t even know how their rng works, maybe they will increase drop rate of blue items and thats it.

Increased bl key drops are not even showing. Never seen any drops anywhere, not even from my guildies.

Rashagar.8349:

Joopy.6547:

That short paragraph certainly made it sound like they’re removing certain incentives to play through dungeons.
It must be a small minority but not everyone has the expansion and can do raids so I hope they will improve dungeon rewards another way. I have yet to unlock all the skins (I understand it can also be done in sPvP but not everyone enjoys that game mode).

Yeah I think this would be the ideal. I do think that, fair enough shifting the “liquid rewards” away from dungeons to other parts of the game, but they should replace those rewards with something more… solid… Re-kerjiggering the token quantity/item prices would be a good start. They made sense when the only end-game pve content was repeated dungeon runs, they don’t make much sense now.

Agreed. If the only function of dungeons is skins, legendary gifts, and specific rune sets, they should really cut down on the number of runs required. A “full run” should IMO be enough to grab a chestpiece.

If the easier acquisition of exotics would be an economic issue, they could easily turn the dungeon skins in to actual free-application skins like the HOTN ones.

Ragnarox.9601:

If they give 50 gold reward when completing one wing of raid then ok nerf dungeons.
If they give 20 gold reward for finishing fractals then ok nerf dungeons.

I don’t think they will buff drops in dungeons, they don’t even know how their rng works, maybe they will increase drop rate of blue items and thats it.

Increased bl key drops are not even showing. Never seen any drops anywhere, not even from my guildies.

Yeah, so far, I’ve seen no change in BL key drops from mobs. But then, I didn’t expect to. Saying they raised the drop rate at the same time they announce the nerf is damage control propaganda, more or less.

munki.6402:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Sw chest farming is good for the economy. Dungeon farming is very bad for the economy.

Unless you know why this is the case you aren’t really qualified to talk about what is good and what is bad for the economy. Maybe take a few more economics classes before trying to tell everyone what is good and what is bad for the game.

+1

Cannot be said enough amongst the deluge of qq’ing dungeon farmers.

this is a false statement.
unless you define good for the economy as item inflation and money deflation, which is just a different set of problems.

PopeUrban.2578:

Vargamonth.2047:

I was honestly expecting some XP nerf to prevent dungeons from being the obvious way to train tyrian masteries, probably resulting on a huge increase on path selling (which I’m not against btw in the current state of the game).
This reward nerf, however … While I can imagine a cut on spontaneous gold generation as something positive for the economy, I can hardly see how making some content next to useless reward wise can be an overall good move.

I think they’re trying to move in the “unique rewards for unique content” direction, with the fractal level system as the outliar “cash money dungeon” since when they update with a fractal, they update the whole system from 1-100

Of course, it remains to be seen if those next 50 fractal levels are a meaningful increase in difficulty or payout.

Dungeons are now about the stuff from the token vendors, so skins and legendary components, just like raids going forward are about their own set of unique rewards, skins and legendary precursors. Fractals are the “filler content” you can use to make money, as they’re a system designed to be infinitely expandable/scalable in a way the more static dungeons and raid aren’t. For that to work, though, fractals need to appropriately scale up the loot with the challenge level so getting good, spending the effort to get all that AR feels worth the time.

And of course the open world is still the go-to for solo farming, only they’re making it less about volume and more about targeted results, so more about farming for the thing you want and less about farming for gold to buy the thing you want, which should spread the player base out more and generally move people around maps so they aren’t all running the same map for months getting bored.

Now to see if they can actually pull this off.

The problem with this new direction (which I find positive for the most part) is that there’ll likely still be items we might need to purchase with raw gold (probably because they hide behing some terrible RNG).
If some content provides just account-bound items, like dungeons tokens (which can be converted into gold, but are not exactly great at this from a time/reward view), it becomes next to useless for this purpose.

If they were shifting a big chunk of raw gold for, lets say, T6 mats and/or lodestones (which could be dungeon specific so you can choose what dungeon to run based on your goals), it would be perfectly fine for me (I could still sell whatever those materials are if I just want gold).
If it’s mostly abount acount bound rewards, that’s pretty much a death sentence.

phys.7689:

munki.6402:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Sw chest farming is good for the economy. Dungeon farming is very bad for the economy.

Unless you know why this is the case you aren’t really qualified to talk about what is good and what is bad for the economy. Maybe take a few more economics classes before trying to tell everyone what is good and what is bad for the game.

+1

Cannot be said enough amongst the deluge of qq’ing dungeon farmers.

this is a false statement.
unless you define good for the economy as item inflation and money deflation, which is just a different set of problems.

True. It becomes a larger problem for hoarders, and a lesser problem for those who want to earn rewards directly.

Market speculation and trade pvp is and will always be a thing, but it’s impossible to deny that easy dungeon farming introduced far too much liquid currency in to the system, directly inflating all material rewards gained from other sources in comparison to gold.

With this new market, after all the stockpiles are sold and the speculation buying/selling calms down, you end up in an economy where it’s just as financially viable option to personally go out get get cloth as it is to farm <insert content> for random drops and sell off material.

It’s deflating currency, sure, but it’s doing so by encouraging and providing avenues to skip the market entirely, meaning and overall corresponding drop in market supply as well.

If they do it right, this hits a point of equilibrium, and, hopefully, lessens the wide fluctuations in cost between stuff like cloth, leather, and metal while still allowing good money to be made by salvaging random drops.

We’re looking at an economy where, at an individual level, supply and demand aren’t assumed realities but choices. You’re not assumed to always have a market supply of materials, nor are you assumed to always have a market demand because you can opt to simply skip the whole deal, or go all in on demand or supply.

If they do it right.

In before all dungeons are a 1man instanced thing just for the story they provide.

PopeUrban.2578:

zaced.7948:

PopeUrban.2578:

zaced.7948:

PopeUrban.2578:

I think you missed the part where fractals are no longer 3 and 4 chain sets, but you can do one at a time and log out and still make progress to your next boss chest.

you’re talking about that chest with some blue and green items in it? sorry, i’d have have the ensured amount of gold. even then i still need infusions to play higher fractals which actually might give me a reward that actually makes a dent.

You’re aware you get infusions out of every single fractal chest now right? And you can craft them together with only 100 in artificer and no other materials required.

By the time you get to the point you need AR in fractals, since the agony infusion patch, you actually already have the AR. You get a ring guaranteed at 10. Don’t like it? You can salvage it now in addition to just running 10 a couple more times to buy the exact ring you want

Of course now you have to actually play harder content to get better rewards

That’s a buff, not a nerf, to GW2 in general.

I’m calling it like I see it. The people mad about the dungeon reward change were simply people that didn’t want to play dungeons. They wanted to farm dungeons.

They moved the farms out of instances so you don’t have to find a group in order to farm. They want instances to be challenging and fun and pay out appropriate rewards for difficulty.

i don’t need rings, i have two bank tabs full of them. what i will need will be tons of gold in infusions i will need to farm in order to be geared for fractals i already unlocked. this was already the case with lvl 50 (when i reached level 50 i had about 1/2 of the infusions i needed for that level, obviously i had to buy the rest since i can’t be bothered with grinding) and this will be even more a case with lvl 100 since the amount of infusions needed rises exponentially. if the formula stays the same we’ll need more than 120 ar for lvl 100 fractals. don’t tell me it’s possible to get those infusions through playing fractals in a reasonable time. even if the new consumables and masteries will get us 20 ar we’ll still need 2 +10 ones to get there. that’S 2050 +1 infusions. you get … i dunno … 1-2 of them per fractal? that’s ONLY MORE THAN 1500 kittenING FRACTALS TO PLAY ON AVERAGE. 7.5 times as much as needed to get to lvl 100. i don’t care about the difficulty level, i’m a very good player. i can run 50s in my sleep and i will be able to run 100s while at least half awake. my skill is irrelevant tho because i have to grind (or buy) enough infusions to be even ABLE to do that content. i could be the best player in the world but the mandatory ar at the beginning of a boss fractal will kill me.
come on, tell me that has nothing to do with grind. have you actually thought about it even for a minute?
and what your confused mind thinks about what is farming or not is irrelevant. running dungeons nets you less gold than most other farming options which anet seems to wholeheartedly support.
even a tryhard white knight like you has to accept the facts. otherwise you’re just delusional.

I didn’t say dungeons were a better farm, I said dungeons were broken content that people are abusing as a farm

That’s not white knighting. That’s a fact.

As for your fractal woes, yes. The intent is that you repeat revolving content to level it up. it sucks that you, like many of us, started fractals before the agony infusion handouts, but let’s be real here.

Fractals were always designed to be repeated in the pursuit of more AR. That’s why there are more than 4 fractals, so you’re not mindlessly farming the same content over and over trying to move from L30 to L31.

How is that more of a grind than running COF1 over and over and over?

If you consider repeating content a grind, then fractals are, by their very nature the least grindy content in the game because you’re virtually guaranteed to have a different set every time you run them. Will you be repeating fractals a fair bit? Yes.

But then you’re repeating a far larger amount of content than if you farm dungeon paths. And you’re actually gaing progress toward better loot every time you progress.

How you could find that less fun than repeating broken paths for gold over and over is beyond me.

You can toss around wordy like “tryhard” and “white knight” all you like, but it is obvious that you’re not interested in playing, it seems, any content that isn’t completely faceroll, or you’re just bored with the game in general.

You’re mad, specifically, because they’re taking the wheels off your gravy train, and now you might actually have to play the game to make some gold.

Cry me a river.

i do not find that more or less fun than dungeons. i actually play fractals when i have the time. the thing is that fractals don’t offer me any kind of reward except for a few green and blue items and some cores for the boss fractals. for a dungeons path i get at least 1 gold. that’s the topic here, rewards. fractals don’t give any monetary gain.
also there are more dungeon paths than fractals. i have seen every single fractal more often than cof 1 or cof in general. how is this less repetitive in my case then? also we’re talking about the system after the patch, i guess you haven’t noticed. how is farming swamp on several levels not a farm, hmh? and seriously, you call 14 fractals a larger amount of content than 25 dungeon paths? get your head fixed, mate.

you don’t take every factor into account. cof i can do for a fix reward without the necessity to grind grind beforehand. for fractals i have to grind an INSANE amount of infusions to have a slightly higher rng on craploot. i don’t like gearchecks, that’s not what this game was supposed to be about. there’s also the requirement of time.
i don’t have time to run a whole lvl 50 (100 in the near future) fractal just to be rewarded with trashloot i could have gotten from killing 20 random mobs. i might have only 30 min and that way i can do 2 dungeon paths for a reasonable reward. it’s not that the rewards from dungeons are over the top, the rewards from fractals are just utter crap.
and you seem weirdly stuck on that cof 1 even after i told you i don’t do cof. and even if, what’s wrong with getting one gold from cof 1 a day? to which extent does this break the economy more than sw chest farming? chest farming seems to be fine according to anet. you make way more gold doing that than running dungeons btw.

and here we are again. how are dungeons broken? what are those “broken paths”? how are they more broken than the fractals? explain that to me. as far as i can see everything is fine with them. why should anet nerf the dungeon farm if they are not nerfing other kinds of farms that are even more lucrative? why not put a cd on bandit chests? or a 24h timer on the breach rewards? as others have said before flooding players with items is as bad as flooding them with gold. also the chests contain gold themselves and getting the 20 chests you need to make up for one dungeon path takes less time than any dungeon path except for perhaps 2 or 3.
i guess someone took a beginner course in economics, didn’t completely understand it but is still a bit full of himself (this is not directed towards you but the other idiot).
just do the math, numbers don’t lie.

and taking the wheels off of what? come on you made that gravy train up. as you might have not read i actually do run max lvl fractals. to me there’s not really a difference between a dungeon path and a lvl 50 fractal. both easy af. fractals just take longer. if i want to have a challenge i play something else than gw2. gw2 is a dress up simulator for weird looking humanoids and that’s it. if you really find ANY content in gw2 difficult i question your skills. how is playing an easy game not playing the game?
you just state that dungeons are broken yet you won’t tell my why. the reason is because you have no compelling arguments and just talk out of your kitten .
get lost, troll, i have no more time for you.

They worked really kitten dungeons I have no idea why they’re moving away from it :| It was a huge part of the game

I cant imagine for the life of me why people care about dungeons. Theyve been the same for 3 years and are just speed runs. Mind you I do SE everyday and usually COE and COF, but its more out of tradition and the quick 4-10g. If fractals are now shorter by 2/3, fractals all the way man. More challenging and better rewards. bravo anet

OK, imagine all the noobs flooding fractals. I’m a fractal elitist sooooo this makes me very unhappy.

Promoting their latest gimmicks by taking alternate gameplay modes and nerfing them into the ground? Classic Anet.

Minx.7521:

OK, imagine all the noobs flooding fractals. I’m a fractal elitist sooooo this makes me very unhappy.

Yeah, this will definitely happen. But then, I get along really well with noobs, so I don’t care.

Why nerf the only thing I like to get some cash from?

ANET:
You need to do fractals!
You need to do raids!
You need to do nice new minigames in HoT!

Me:
- I hate daily activities. I hate them to a point I’m glad I get into one just before the timer runs out so I can leave it in a dozen seconds with my chest.
- I bought this because it’s an MMORPG, I respect some people want other things
- I like exploration of maps, sightseeing…. I have 32 map parts now will get 4 new ones, yes in 3 layers…, 12…..layers… It took me 3 years to get 20 characters to lv 80 and gear ‘m and 15 characters to all hearo points and waypoints,
- I like dungeons and some team effort with a low respawn being able to do content daily. I do ’m with pugs in open runs, with zerk meta’s in speed runs… I do not care.
- I did dungeons DAILY for the past 2.5 years.
- I like to progress and I like to be doing what I want, not what the designer thinks I want. It’s also a reason why I like to play stuf ff cause I can relax doing what I want.
- I like people to live up to promises made. You can play however you want… Poeple seem to have forgotten…

I do -not- give a F about content with mandatory end game gear with coordinated groups of 10 people of whom nobody can fail with the punishment of:
A not getting loot
B not getting progression in a soon te be mandatory track
C not having acces to gear or skins due to it not being available from other sources.
(you can get the dungeon skins from PvP, I have epilepsy I seize up every 15 minutes. In PvP I’m useless to a team, in dungeons I get killed often by losing my consiousness for a couple of second, but I NEED TO DO RAIDS alse you cannot be part of the group no more. The raid will screw over 10 people who will have their content reset, If I spaz. In dungeons I sometimes just stand somewhere and die. People wonder why or are guildies and wait for me to either respawn or in some cases I have a buddy and I get ressed (often guildies link me to a warrior)
Why can’t you just make some dungeons and continue one of the facets of the game.

A-Net :
Because we have an economics man who says we cannot. Economics is the point… Mostly in RL but ingame it’s important as well.

Me:
I know your economics will dry up if people need to wait a week for new runs.
And fractals is nice, but I’ve seen ‘m. Been there done that. now we do not only need to repeat them 50 times … NO We need to repeat ’m indefinately the exploits and mechanics of fractals are as stiff and cluncky as dungeons. there is no actual difference. Most people only run dungeonsnowadays to get lvl 80 rares and exotics for forging and ecto’s… Yes, ok ? I do all other content for the SAME REASON. and I get some gold, not 10 gold or 100 gold. Just 1-3 gold /path… each path takles me as long as a fractal, not the fractal RUN, but a fractal… unless it’s Arah, I suck at Arah…

Maybe you should merge fractals and dungeons…. and put the raids in fractals as well

In the end it’s all instanced content.

As for the raid, : It will be broken, I do not know when but some guy will notice something and it will be “Return to Arah”… cause it’s fubar-ed somewhere….
If not for this path for one or more of the others.

I’m deer in PvP I do not care to go higher. I aksed a few peopel to carry me just for fun and for a deer finsiher. They had a good laugh I actually won some. I do not care for PvP, I play some WVW. I like it. Don’t care for PvP 1 vs1 I don’t even put in any effort. when I run with my staff ele back to my zerg and I get duo ganked by thieves or PU mesmers I run on I do not care If they are persistant I just stop and give them the kill wehy bother . If they think they’re hot: Well let them! It’s their fun. I do not care. I’m a guild player or a group player in WvW. I do not roam anymore. I tried it and had some fun with a PU 2 years ago, and it’s done and gone.

Daralii.8940:

Celtic Lady.3729:

I don’t really get why the developers for this game have more or less failed at making dungeons, if what people are saying is true and that they are minimizing dungeons because they’re so imbalanced.

Isn’t dungeon making and dungeons in general a staple of MMO play? Shouldn’t they be able to make good ones and balance them?

The dungeon team was disbanded after the AC remake. For whatever reason, they have an active disinterest in dungeons being a thing.

This wouldn’t be so bad if they had actually carried through with new fractals being periodically added every few months because they were easy to churn out instead of adding a grand total of 4(three of which are recycled from dungeons that were timed content) since the feature was implemented.

ANet’s track record with instanced PvE content in GW2 is absolutely horrendous, which is a big part of why I’m so skeptical of raids past Spirit Vale.

5, 4 of which are recycled.
They split the molten alliance dungeon into two (and cut off a bunch of it doing so) and you get the dungeon up to the mole boss with the trap room (where you dodge fire tornadoes and such), and the dual boss for the final fractal.
Also there’s the aether refuge, which they split into two, half being the fractal up to the laser room, and the other part Mai Trin as a final boss. It was something a bit disgusting. When the dungeons were removed, myself and many others actually thought ti would be great if they could come back as fractals, since they were fun and kinda better than normal dungeons. But not like this butchered in half, with parts missing.

Actually when they said they’d make fractals single runs i actually hoped they’d put the full runs back in, until i read they wouldn’t.

munki.6402:

Tapioca.9062:

Promoting their latest gimmicks by taking alternate gameplay modes and nerfing them into the ground? Classic Anet.

Removing the rewards from overly farmed, broken content to help in an overall effort to balance the in-game economy is the right thing to do. Redistribute rewards to reflect the difficulty of the content completed as opposed to rewarding brainless speed-farming that inflates the economy is the right thing to do.

in that case anet should probably remove the bandit chests from sw and halve the rewards from the breach.

It will be lot better in the long term when farming instance balanced for low lvls stop being most rewarding PVE instances.

munki.6402:

zaced.7948:

munki.6402:

Tapioca.9062:

Promoting their latest gimmicks by taking alternate gameplay modes and nerfing them into the ground? Classic Anet.

Removing the rewards from overly farmed, broken content to help in an overall effort to balance the in-game economy is the right thing to do. Redistribute rewards to reflect the difficulty of the content completed as opposed to rewarding brainless speed-farming that inflates the economy is the right thing to do.

in that case anet should probably remove the bandit chests from sw and halve the rewards from the breach.

Wrong. The gold made in SW is mainly from salvage/mats etc, which is traded amongst players. Dungeons reward gold upon completion, which inflates the market with gold from thin air being injected into the economy.. It’s very easy to understand, if one is being objective about the matter.

Except that you do get gold from many of the reward bags you get, especially the embroidered coin bags from bandit chests.

And honestly, with how much the economy is inflated, new players do need that reward, even old ones do.

munki.6402:

Tapioca.9062:

Promoting their latest gimmicks by taking alternate gameplay modes and nerfing them into the ground? Classic Anet.

Removing the rewards from overly farmed, broken content to help in an overall effort to balance the in-game economy is the right thing to do. Redistribute rewards to reflect the difficulty of the content completed as opposed to rewarding brainless speed-farming that inflates the economy is the right thing to do.

Freaking forums ate my post. Here’s the summarised version of what I said since I have to get ready for work:

• Dungeons are not the primary source of farming. You want gold you go to the Silverwastes.
• Dungeons already have a farming cap on them.
• Fractals see more use than dungeons.
• This isn’t a re-balance of rewards where you get less gold, but more tokens. It takes rewards from dungeons and gives them to raids and fractals. Effectively propping up their latest, soon to be abandoned, gimmicks at the expense of other content.
• GW2 isn’t exactly strong in the content department already. Creating a disincentive to do an entire branch of content is a poor decision.

If you wanted to tone down the gold rewards for dungeons that would be one thing, but it has to be a balanced move to retain their viability as content. And part of the viability of group based content is actually being able to find a group of people who are willing to do it with you. This isn’t a tuning of dungeon rewards, this is a smash and grab of content that Anet has abandoned, and want you to abandon too, in favour of their new flavour of the month.

munki.6402:

zaced.7948:

munki.6402:

Tapioca.9062:

Promoting their latest gimmicks by taking alternate gameplay modes and nerfing them into the ground? Classic Anet.

Removing the rewards from overly farmed, broken content to help in an overall effort to balance the in-game economy is the right thing to do. Redistribute rewards to reflect the difficulty of the content completed as opposed to rewarding brainless speed-farming that inflates the economy is the right thing to do.

in that case anet should probably remove the bandit chests from sw and halve the rewards from the breach.

Wrong. The gold made in SW is mainly from salvage/mats etc, which is traded amongst players. Dungeons reward gold upon completion, which inflates the market with gold from thin air being injected into the economy.. It’s very easy to understand, if one is being objective about the matter.

you should read my posts, you might understand a thing or two.
on average you get about 5s pro bandit chest. that means you need 20 bandit chests to be on par with all dungeon paths except ac and arah. those 20 bandit chests you get faster than a dungeon path takes (on average).
you get more pure gold through sw chestfarming than through running dungeons. yet, chestfarming is perfectly fine. explain.

zaced.7948:

PopeUrban.2578:

zaced.7948:

PopeUrban.2578:

zaced.7948:

PopeUrban.2578:

I think you missed the part where fractals are no longer 3 and 4 chain sets, but you can do one at a time and log out and still make progress to your next boss chest.

you’re talking about that chest with some blue and green items in it? sorry, i’d have have the ensured amount of gold. even then i still need infusions to play higher fractals which actually might give me a reward that actually makes a dent.

You’re aware you get infusions out of every single fractal chest now right? And you can craft them together with only 100 in artificer and no other materials required.

By the time you get to the point you need AR in fractals, since the agony infusion patch, you actually already have the AR. You get a ring guaranteed at 10. Don’t like it? You can salvage it now in addition to just running 10 a couple more times to buy the exact ring you want

Of course now you have to actually play harder content to get better rewards

That’s a buff, not a nerf, to GW2 in general.

I’m calling it like I see it. The people mad about the dungeon reward change were simply people that didn’t want to play dungeons. They wanted to farm dungeons.

They moved the farms out of instances so you don’t have to find a group in order to farm. They want instances to be challenging and fun and pay out appropriate rewards for difficulty.

i don’t need rings, i have two bank tabs full of them. what i will need will be tons of gold in infusions i will need to farm in order to be geared for fractals i already unlocked. this was already the case with lvl 50 (when i reached level 50 i had about 1/2 of the infusions i needed for that level, obviously i had to buy the rest since i can’t be bothered with grinding) and this will be even more a case with lvl 100 since the amount of infusions needed rises exponentially. if the formula stays the same we’ll need more than 120 ar for lvl 100 fractals. don’t tell me it’s possible to get those infusions through playing fractals in a reasonable time. even if the new consumables and masteries will get us 20 ar we’ll still need 2 +10 ones to get there. that’S 2050 +1 infusions. you get … i dunno … 1-2 of them per fractal? that’s ONLY MORE THAN 1500 kittenING FRACTALS TO PLAY ON AVERAGE. 7.5 times as much as needed to get to lvl 100. i don’t care about the difficulty level, i’m a very good player. i can run 50s in my sleep and i will be able to run 100s while at least half awake. my skill is irrelevant tho because i have to grind (or buy) enough infusions to be even ABLE to do that content. i could be the best player in the world but the mandatory ar at the beginning of a boss fractal will kill me.
come on, tell me that has nothing to do with grind. have you actually thought about it even for a minute?
and what your confused mind thinks about what is farming or not is irrelevant. running dungeons nets you less gold than most other farming options which anet seems to wholeheartedly support.
even a tryhard white knight like you has to accept the facts. otherwise you’re just delusional.

I didn’t say dungeons were a better farm, I said dungeons were broken content that people are abusing as a farm

That’s not white knighting. That’s a fact.

As for your fractal woes, yes. The intent is that you repeat revolving content to level it up. it sucks that you, like many of us, started fractals before the agony infusion handouts, but let’s be real here.

Fractals were always designed to be repeated in the pursuit of more AR. That’s why there are more than 4 fractals, so you’re not mindlessly farming the same content over and over trying to move from L30 to L31.

How is that more of a grind than running COF1 over and over and over?

If you consider repeating content a grind, then fractals are, by their very nature the least grindy content in the game because you’re virtually guaranteed to have a different set every time you run them. Will you be repeating fractals a fair bit? Yes.

But then you’re repeating a far larger amount of content than if you farm dungeon paths. And you’re actually gaing progress toward better loot every time you progress.

How you could find that less fun than repeating broken paths for gold over and over is beyond me.

You can toss around wordy like “tryhard” and “white knight” all you like, but it is obvious that you’re not interested in playing, it seems, any content that isn’t completely faceroll, or you’re just bored with the game in general.

You’re mad, specifically, because they’re taking the wheels off your gravy train, and now you might actually have to play the game to make some gold.

Cry me a river.

i do not find that more or less fun than dungeons. i actually play fractals when i have the time. the thing is that fractals don’t offer me any kind of reward except for a few grren and blue items and some cores for the boss fractals. for a dungeons path i get at least 1 gold. that’s the topic here, rewards. fractals don’t give any monetary gain.
also there are more dungeon paths than fractals. i have seen every single fractal more often than cof 1 or cof in general. how is this less repetitive in my case then? also we’re talking about the system after the patch, i guess you haven’t noticed. how is farming swamp on several levels not a farm, hmh? and seriously, you call 14 fractals a larger amount of content than 25 dungeon paths? get your head fixed, mate.

you don’t take every factor into account. cof i can do for a fix reward without the necessity to grind grind beforehand. for fractals i have to grind an INSANE amount of infusions to have a slightly higher rng on craploot. i don’t like gearchecks, that’s not what this game was supposed to be about. there’s also the requirement of time.
i don’t have time to run a whole lvl 50 (100 in the near future) fractal just to be rewarded with trashloot i could have gotten from killing 20 random mobs. i might have only 30 min and that way i can do 2 dungeon paths for a reasonable reward. it’s not that the rewards from dungeons are over the top, the rewards from fractals are just utter crap.
and you seem weirdly stuck on that cof 1 even after i told you i don’t do cof. and even if, what’s wrong with getting one gold from cof 1 a day? to which extent does this break the economy more than sw chest farming? chest farming seems to be fine according to anet. you make way more gold doing that than running dungeons btw.

and here we are again. how are dungeons broken? what are those “broken paths”? how are they more broken than the fractals? explain that to me. as far as i can see everything is fine with them. why should anet nerf the dungeon farm if they are not nerfing other kinds of farms that are even more lucrative? why not put a cd on bandit chests? or a 24h timer on the breach rewards? as others have said before flooding players with items is as bad as flooding it with gold. also the chests contain gold themselves and getting the 20 chests you need to make up for one dungeon path takes less time than than any dungeon path except for perhaps 2 or 3.
i guess someone took a beginner course in economics, didn’t completely understand it but is still a bit full of himself (this is not directed towards you but the other idiot).
just do the math, numbers don’t lie.

and taking the wheels off of what? come on you made that gravy train up. as you might have not read i actually do run max lvl fractals. to me there’s not really a difference between a dungeon path and a lvl 50 fractal. both easy af. fractals just take longer. if i want to have a challenge i play something else than gw2. gw2 is a dress up simulator for weird looking humanoids and that’s it. if you really find ANY content in gw2 difficult i question your skills. how is playing an easy game not playing the game?
you just state that dungeons are broken yet you won’t tell my why. the reason is because you have no compelling arguments and just talk out of your kitten .
get lost, troll, i have no more time for you.

So what you’re saying is you don’t “have the time” to run a single fractal under the new system, but you somehow have the time to run every single path of every single dungeon every day?

But of course you only run the kittenes, except that none of them are hard.

You’re swamped in contradictions here.

Should fractals be more rewarding and more challenging? Absolutely. That’s why they’re adding 50 more levels and retuning the old instabilities that were complete easy mode. It remains to be seen what they’re doing about the rewards at scale.

Dungeons are broken. Period. Go do CM 3 and laugh as you fight zero mobs and only one boss while you cheese the other two. Solo. Or completely skipping Kohler in AC, or stacking and reflecting literally everything to complete cof1 in mere minutes… the list goes on. Every single dungeon path allows you to outright skip or effortlessly burst most of it down.

Compare this with fractals. You are not skipping 80% of a given path, and you’re not speedrunning it in 5 minutes. The only exploit I can think of off the top of my head is the safe spot in the rotating laser room of the aether fractal. The other stuff, like the skip in dredge? Fixed within a month. Grawl? It’s a trash fight and two boss fights. You can skip the bats if you want. Catbot? You can skip like seven harpies.

The fact remains that _dungeons reward extremely well for content that is extremely short/easy compared to fractals.

This has nothing to do with how good you are personally, but rather the relative challenge level of the content. Even though you personally find all of it easy, you can’t deny than standing on a little stick to kill frost risk free, or bursting down the spider queen before she can do anything are significantly easier than killing Mai Trin, either of the grawl bosses, either of the dredge bosses, etc. etc. based simply on greater mechanical complexity of the fight.

On top of that, fractals are built around instabilities, and I seriously doubt that the easy mode L40 and L50 agony instabilities are going to stick around if they’re going so far as to change L38 in to full on reflection immunity. This means that even in repetition there is challenge. It might be old hat once you hit 50, since you can just sit on agony resists and forget the instabilities you had to go through to get there, but you can’t deny that instabilities that aren’t just “and also there’s some agony dots” significantly change the experience of running through a fractal.

I’ll say again, you’re upset that they’re removing imbalanced rewards from easy and broken content.

This is separate from fractal rewards, which are an issue in and of themselves. However, the fact you wieght this content in terms of the end chests rather than the overall loot acquired during a run says something about how you’re playing the content.

I walk out of L50 fractals with significantly more loot than any dungeon path.

I’d think a person like yourself, who is so good at the game that they literally find no challenge in any of the content would be excited that there are 50 new instabilities to conquer and a nice legendary backpack to go after so you’re not stuck farming the same old dungeons.

But it sounds to me like you’d rather farm old, broken, and by your own words extremely easy content than move up to the new top of the line.

So I ask you, are you interested in the content, or the farm?

i don’t have the patience to read all of that but i’ll fly over it. it seems that fractals to you are some sort of challenging. well, that’s nice for you. i skip in fractals as much as i skip in dungeons. the difficulty in both is so low that it doesn’t make a difference to me. instabilities are a joke that is easily worked around.
there are no contradictions, you’re just having a stroke.
also, i am excited that there are 50 new fractal levels i just don’t see the necessity to kill dungeons for it. you don’t seem to understand the bigger picture here. anet is killing off older content in favor of the new stuff. fractals are gonna be next at some point. why and with what intention is obvious, i hope i don’t have to explain.
yes, some fractal encounters are more complex than some dungeon encounters. but then again some dungeon encounters are more complex than some fractal encounters. there’s a lot of standing in a corner and bursting dps in fractals as well. also a lot of skipping. and yes, i actually am speedrunning some fractals in 5 minutes (swamp, mai trin, molten dudes). some take slightly longer. perhaps 10 minutes. about the same time many dungeon paths take. some take around 15 minutes. there are also dungeons paths that take this long. see, you’re comparing the shortest, easiest dungeon path with the longest, most difficult fractal. do you understand why i can’t take you srsly?
yes, dungeon rewards are ok for the time it takes. fractal rewards are kitten for the time it takes (not that much more than dungeons, slightly? … yes, a lot? … no). still both don’t compare to open world farming reward wise which seems to be perfectly fine in your dreamworld. this is not about dungeons vs fractals, this is about rewards in general and how dungeon rewards compare to them and this includes open world as well.

i’ll say it again, i’m upset they are removing balanced rewards from content that is as easy as everything else.

and if you are walking out of a fractal with more loot then a dungeon then congrats. i walk out of a lvl50 fractal with loot that worth what i get in one single dungeon path. again, this doesn’t mean dungeon rewards are broken (in a sense that it’s too much, see sw) but fractals rewards are broken (in a sense that it’s not enough, basically some luck, some mats an 3 cores).

i am absolutely interested in the content. content as in all those shiny skins i can dress up my characters with. how i get them i don’t really care. if anet wouldn’t have disappointed me over and over again i would just buy them with cash (-> gold) like i did in the first 1.5 years after release.
content as in gameplay content is way too easy and unsophisticated to be excited about. that’s what pvp is for. there i can’t find the mandatory flaw in every AI.

I’ve never spoken out about a nerf before, but this one hurts….. bad. Just thought I’d put my 2 cents in. Maybe they’ll rethink it if enough people say something. Hopefully.

Lucky Smith.7359:

I’ve never spoken out about a nerf before, but this one hurts….. bad. Just thought I’d put my 2 cents in. Maybe they’ll rethink it if enough people say something. Hopefully.

Bold, yup that’s how things work to get Anet to change things, look at the original 6-9 months to build guild hall pvp arena, tons of players raged less than 24hrs Anet changed it to 2 weeks instead.

So, let’s get this straight: They are going to nerf the dungeons, where you can almost play how you want and push the people towards gear grinding content.
Are we sure that this is not WoW…?

ReaverKane.7598:

Rauderi.8706:

Not “remove” dungeons, but rather reduce the “CoF1&3 15kAP Ascended or kick” farm. Or dungeon-gold farming in general. A big payout on dungeons adds money to the economy, more than is appropriate to maintain its health.

Rather, it’s better to reward materials and items with low vendor value. Players sell on the market to other players, and that filters out money via trading fees. With the map rewards coming, even those prices should be relatively in control, once the upshot in demand bases out.

Dungeon runs might remain the fastest way to get the unique exotics, but it’s old, stale content that is no longer supported, and it seems wise to aim away from them as a part of the reward structure.

I don’t know anyone that farms dungeons for gold, but if they do it, they’re not really that smart i have to say, sure for tokens, kinda, but for gold?
The only “good” gold reward is the 24h gated one, after that, 20s is peanuts. You earn tons more from FGS champ farm or simply doing silverwastes chains, dry top buried chests, World boss trains.. Honestly, anything gives your more money for your time than repeating a dungeon twice in a day.

Nobody repeats dungeons multiple times per day. “Farming” gold in dungeons is running the easiest paths as quickly as possible, once per day.

Well, this is one way to get people excited about doing your new content. Nerf the rewards for the old content so it can’t compete. Lol.

I am not a dungeon speedrunner.

I am not a min-maxer

I prefer full clear runs over skipping.

I enjoy dungeons for the opportunity to enjoy a bit of group content more involved than open world play that takes a little while and has a nice reward at the end.

I don’t do dungeons just for the rewards, but they are part of the overall experience. Lowering the rewards lessens the experience.

More than anything else this feels, to me, like an effort to devalue the base game so as to encourage sales of the expansion. They couldn’t come right out and remove dungeons without looking very bad in the game press so they just make them less appealing. I won’t be surprised if this is just the first of multiple steps to discourage playing dungeons.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Well, this is one way to get people excited about doing your new content. Nerf the rewards for the old content so it can’t compete. Lol.

Yeap. As long as enough people let their views get known enough, Anet will change it back. Or at least nerf it not-so-much.

rhapsody.3615:

ReaverKane.7598:

Rauderi.8706:

Not “remove” dungeons, but rather reduce the “CoF1&3 15kAP Ascended or kick” farm. Or dungeon-gold farming in general. A big payout on dungeons adds money to the economy, more than is appropriate to maintain its health.

Rather, it’s better to reward materials and items with low vendor value. Players sell on the market to other players, and that filters out money via trading fees. With the map rewards coming, even those prices should be relatively in control, once the upshot in demand bases out.

Dungeon runs might remain the fastest way to get the unique exotics, but it’s old, stale content that is no longer supported, and it seems wise to aim away from them as a part of the reward structure.

I don’t know anyone that farms dungeons for gold, but if they do it, they’re not really that smart i have to say, sure for tokens, kinda, but for gold?
The only “good” gold reward is the 24h gated one, after that, 20s is peanuts. You earn tons more from FGS champ farm or simply doing silverwastes chains, dry top buried chests, World boss trains.. Honestly, anything gives your more money for your time than repeating a dungeon twice in a day.

Nobody repeats dungeons multiple times per day. “Farming” gold in dungeons is running the easiest paths as quickly as possible, once per day.

So you’re telling me, that people that do EVERY PATH, which takes several hours will gain, around 30 gold? 35? When usually a single rotation of silverwastes, just doing events and nightmare chests, nets me 7 gold minimum? And dungeons is the bad thing?

I cant find any word on this can some one please link an info page? thank you in advance.

ReaverKane.7598:

rhapsody.3615:

ReaverKane.7598:

Rauderi.8706:

Not “remove” dungeons, but rather reduce the “CoF1&3 15kAP Ascended or kick” farm. Or dungeon-gold farming in general. A big payout on dungeons adds money to the economy, more than is appropriate to maintain its health.

Rather, it’s better to reward materials and items with low vendor value. Players sell on the market to other players, and that filters out money via trading fees. With the map rewards coming, even those prices should be relatively in control, once the upshot in demand bases out.

Dungeon runs might remain the fastest way to get the unique exotics, but it’s old, stale content that is no longer supported, and it seems wise to aim away from them as a part of the reward structure.

I don’t know anyone that farms dungeons for gold, but if they do it, they’re not really that smart i have to say, sure for tokens, kinda, but for gold?
The only “good” gold reward is the 24h gated one, after that, 20s is peanuts. You earn tons more from FGS champ farm or simply doing silverwastes chains, dry top buried chests, World boss trains.. Honestly, anything gives your more money for your time than repeating a dungeon twice in a day.

Nobody repeats dungeons multiple times per day. “Farming” gold in dungeons is running the easiest paths as quickly as possible, once per day.

So you’re telling me, that people that do EVERY PATH, which takes several hours will gain, around 30 gold? 35? When usually a single rotation of silverwastes, just doing events and nightmare chests, nets me 7 gold minimum? And dungeons is the bad thing?

Dungeons is “bad” because it gives the player base an alternative to fractals + raids. So … “bad” in Anet perspective with their new focus on fractals + raids.

freedomgeass.4756:

I cant find any word on this can some one please link an info page? thank you in advance.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-economy/

PopeUrban.2578:

How you could find that less fun than repeating broken paths for gold over and over is beyond me.

You can toss around wordy like “tryhard” and “white knight” all you like, but it is obvious that you’re not interested in playing, it seems, any content that isn’t completely faceroll, or you’re just bored with the game in general.

You’re mad, specifically, because they’re taking the wheels off your gravy train, and now you might actually have to play the game to make some gold.

Cry me a river.

once a day is not “over and over” it’s just playing the game. and just because other people’s way of enjoying the game isn’t like yours (whatever that is… teq and playing your flute in LA?) doesn’t make you superior in any way. they removed farming long ago by adding daily rewards. now, 99% of the player base who run dungeons for gold go through all the easiest paths for the daily gold. it’s not OP, and it’s not broken. it’s a couple gold per hour. if you want to pick on farmers, go to silverwastes. it’s kitten like this that forces me to go into selling fractals (40g per hour) or flipping (60g+ per hour) they are making good old fashioned hard work obsolete.

Not sure how any of this is surprising to anyone anywhere, its been stated several times over the last year that dungeons are dead, and with XP being useful again for masteries a dungeon nerf was obvious.

Besides if you read the whole post they said dungeon rewards are just being moved to other areas. So people will have to go from speed running dungeons every day to speed running whatever fractals give the most gold/hour. Big deal. Nothing is really going to change in the end.

josiahpapaya.6210:

PopeUrban.2578:

How you could find that less fun than repeating broken paths for gold over and over is beyond me.

You can toss around wordy like “tryhard” and “white knight” all you like, but it is obvious that you’re not interested in playing, it seems, any content that isn’t completely faceroll, or you’re just bored with the game in general.

You’re mad, specifically, because they’re taking the wheels off your gravy train, and now you might actually have to play the game to make some gold.

Cry me a river.

once a day is not “over and over” it’s just playing the game. and just because other people’s way of enjoying the game isn’t like yours (whatever that is… teq and playing your flute in LA?) doesn’t make you superior in any way. they removed farming long ago by adding daily rewards. now, 99% of the player base who run dungeons for gold go through all the easiest paths for the daily gold. it’s not OP, and it’s not broken. it’s a couple gold per hour. if you want to pick on farmers, go to silverwastes. it’s kitten like this that forces me to go into selling fractals (40g per hour) or flipping (60g+ per hour) they are making good old fashioned hard work obsolete.

You’re missing the point man. This is not about farming at all. This is about pushing the expansion. plain and simple.

PopeUrban.2578:

But it sounds to me like you’d rather farm old, broken, and by your own words extremely easy content than move up to the new top of the line.

So I ask you, are you interested in the content, or the farm?

I’m interested in both the content and the unique weapon and armor skins. I enjoy dungeoning in a way that I don’t enjoy Fractals.

Fractals are strictly about mastery, about honing a specific build to its finest possible point. You invest in a specific character and weapon+ armor set, then refine your playstyle, traits, and utilities to handle whatever content comes you way.

With dungeons, I know exactly what I’m getting myself into each time I start a path, and I have a lot more freedom in how I approach that content. I can play through them with any of my characters, so if I want to try to face down the HotW P1 last boss with my Mesmer and her greatsword, my Necro with her axe, or my Elementalist with his Scepter, I can give all of them a try and see who handles it best. If I want to swap out my Meditation Guardian’s Solder armor and try out a Cleric setup with Shouts, not only can I give that a try but the dungeon tokens make it even easier to experiment that way: I can easily work towards a new armor set (with snazzy unique skins) while trying out other build experiments.

And yes, I know that zerker armor is the best on pretty much everyone, and I know that my Necro probably isn’t going to help set many speed records, but the nice thing about dungeons is that the difficulty level is low enough that you can set up casual runs and still see good success. I’m engaged enough to have fun but not challenged so much that I have to put on my tryhard pants every time I want to play, and the unique rewards offer the prestige that’s so important to everyone in Fashion Wars 2.

My concern, then, is that dropping the gold gain without additional compensation to dungeon rewards will destroy the dungeon-running community and make it much more difficult, if not impossible, to put together PUGs. Yes, I could potentially join a guild and then convince them to dungeon with me regularly, but I don’t have a desire to be in a guild, nor should joining a guild be a requirement for enjoying content.

You mean elitist PUGs because PUGing with randoms will always be around.

Behellagh.1468:

You mean elitist PUGs because PUGing with randoms will always be around.

I dunno about that story dungeon running was basically done until they increased rewards. I dont see many people doing dungeons at all if the gold is sufficiently nerfed.

Which ultimately is their goal they said point blank they dont want people to have any good reason to do dungeons outside of unique items (which arent unique and are easily obtsined via pvp dungeon rooms i hear)