Guild Wars 2

Everyone is wearing magic find gear to dungeons to increase their rewards, I’m not sure how or why the developers thought this would be a good idea.

I think there should be a cap to the amount of magic find you can benefit from and make that mark very low so people aren’t wearing FULL magic find gear to dungeons.

You should also adjust the booster to make the player reach that magic find cap (more gem store purchases for you guys?)… and then remove the magic find from guild perks and all other avenues.

I don’t use MF gear in dungeons,nor my groups.Only pugs use MF.
Conclusion don’t pug.

moiraine.2753:

I don’t use MF gear in dungeons,nor my groups.Only pugs use MF.
Conclusion don’t pug.

Because everyone playing this game has a big active guild and full friends list dedicated to doing any dungeon whenever you want… right?

Milennin.4825:

moiraine.2753:

I don’t use MF gear in dungeons,nor my groups.Only pugs use MF.
Conclusion don’t pug.

Because everyone playing this game has a big active guild and full friends list dedicated to doing any dungeon whenever you want… right?

Name of the game is “Guild Wars”, not “Solo Wars”. Having a few friends help.

Seriously, Magic Find should be rendered inoperative in dungeon, to preserve PUGs’ already fragile environment.

Is it just me or the list of “useless stats for dungeons” list to increasing? Everybody is like “put in an inspect function” and we all know for every person that uses it to check-out unusual or cool gear on a player, nine others will use it for discrimination. I mean, lots of people think +healing is pretty useless or + condition damage. Some don’t like people being all +power, +precision and no toughness or vitality.

Do you discriminate against a person who is wearing all Knights or Valkyrie but has superior pirate runes instead of, for example, rune of soldier? What about people who have a mix? Mix of knight and explorer gear? What about people who have all “approved” armour but magic find jewellery? I mean, where does it stop?

Ultimately, does it really matter what gear a person is wearing? A person can be appropriately geared but just be a terrible player or having an off day. I would rather have a competent player in magic find gear and an incompetent player in non-magic find gear.

PS. And before I am accused of wearing magic find, I don’t. This is my gear, which has been upgrade to have all superior rune in preparation of the weekends bloodbath with 5/6 soldier and 2/6 geomancer out of CoE.

PSS. I would like to point out that according to some people, how I am geared is a drain to the party as I will not do as much damage as a power heavy player.

I find that much of the hate on magic find is unquantified. What people need to do is to run a double blind test with some people over a large skill range wearing magic find and some people not wearing magic find in a certain set dungeon and have the rest of the teammates try and deduce whether the guy was wearing magic find. I expect results to be very surprising.

Maybe this will change your mind

Hey Folks,
This patch will see a reworked loot system for dungeons. We realize our current system is lacking, and we have been working hard to correct that. I’m here to detail a bit about what is going to happen, and what you can expect

So what did we do?

We selected three specific sub-bosses throughout each dungeon chain and developed special drops for them that are influenced by your character’s Magic Find

We also gave those three sub-bosses a guaranteed item called a “Bag of Wondrous Goods” which will give the players a consumable Karma item worth 400 karma, and a consumable monetary item worth up to 4 silver. In explorable dungeons, the bag will also reward three tokens specific to the dungeon.
We realize some explorable chains don’t have as many bosses within them, so we made sure to account for this and updated as many event rewarded chests as needed to ensure balance between all the explorable paths.

We hope these fixes address the issues with dungeon rewards that we have been seeing. As always we will be watching and balancing as new situations arise, but we feel confident that the improvements we have made will make dungeon more rewarding. We’re always looking to expand and better the system though, and regard this in a step in the right direction.

Milennin.4825:

moiraine.2753:

I don’t use MF gear in dungeons,nor my groups.Only pugs use MF.
Conclusion don’t pug.

Because everyone playing this game has a big active guild and full friends list dedicated to doing any dungeon whenever you want… right?

Who my group is made from guildies lol.My group was made from random people i met while doing stuff in GW2.I become friends with people i meet.It is not a guild group lol

moiraine.2753:

Milennin.4825:

moiraine.2753:

I don’t use MF gear in dungeons,nor my groups.Only pugs use MF.
Conclusion don’t pug.

Because everyone playing this game has a big active guild and full friends list dedicated to doing any dungeon whenever you want… right?

Who my group is made from guildies lol.My group was made from random people i met while doing stuff in GW2.I become friends with people i meet.It is not a guild group lol

And your friends are always online when you are?
Your friends are always willing to go with you when you want, and on what you want? Or if they ask you to do a dungeon with them, they’ll invite your other friends to join them so you won’t have randoms in your team? And your friends always have time to go with you?

If yes on all of these, where can I buy these friends?

Milennin.4825:

moiraine.2753:

Milennin.4825:

moiraine.2753:

I don’t use MF gear in dungeons,nor my groups.Only pugs use MF.
Conclusion don’t pug.

Because everyone playing this game has a big active guild and full friends list dedicated to doing any dungeon whenever you want… right?

Who my group is made from guildies lol.My group was made from random people i met while doing stuff in GW2.I become friends with people i meet.It is not a guild group lol

And your friends are always online when you are?
Your friends are always willing to go with you when you want, and on what you want? Or if they ask you to do a dungeon with them, they’ll invite your other friends to join them so you won’t have randoms in your team? And your friends always have time to go with you?

If yes on all of these, where can I buy these friends?

Well, you’ll need more than 4 friends so idk 30-ish decently active people on your friends list + guildies = pretty much can get 5 people at all times to do shenanigans with you. If you’re not willing to be social in a multiplayer game…don’t whine about multiplayer content, besides, gaming with people you know (as far as you can know people you meet on the webz) it’s much more fun than dealing with randoms (although it can be fun too, if you get a nice bunch).

1) I run in guild but I still use MF .. No one complains because I get the job done
2) If you are in an inactive guild, join an active one? Multi-guilding is possible!

Novalight.7568:

Well, you’ll need more than 4 friends so idk 30-ish decently active people on your friends list + guildies = pretty much can get 5 people at all times to do shenanigans with you. If you’re not willing to be social in a multiplayer game...don’t whine about multiplayer content, besides, gaming with people you know (as far as you can know people you meet on the webz) it’s much more fun than dealing with randoms (although it can be fun too, if you get a nice bunch).

Oh, I didn’t know I had to befriend 30+ people to be considered a social person. I guess the few best friends I have don’t matter and that I have an anti-social relationship with them. Well excuse me, o great social person with big friends list (*bows*), time to get up my social skills and add more people to my friends list. I hope one day I can be as social as you are, to get my army of friends to do anything I want.

Anet should just get rid of MF from gears and have it only in consumables.
Problem solved.

Magic Find was always there, it’s nothing new. They just added new drops.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

1) I run in guild but I still use MF .. No one complains because I get the job done
2) If you are in an inactive guild, join an active one? Multi-guilding is possible!

Is it perhaps possible that you’re guild/party members does NOT run with magic find? Don’t you think that they are doing more than you? In other words picking up the slack.

Well it’s all good right, because they’re you’re guild members. Surely, in a big guild, at least 4 people are sitting in LA looking to run dungeons and waiting for you to show up. ( I am in a big guild btw, 300+ members 80+ online at primetime)

Magic find doesn’t belong in dungeons. The dungeon content is supposed to be challenging and push players to perform well, giving incentive for players to wear magic find in dungeons is three steps back in what dungeons should be.

This is like some sick joke by Anet where rather then fix dungeons to be more challenging, they give incentive to wear magic find in dungeons where selfish players will drop stats for magic find thus making the dungeon more difficult. Mobs die more slowly, players die more easily, all because of an antiquated stat like magic find. It makes dungeons harder in a terrible way.

kitten off with the magic find gear

moonjo.9831:

Anet should just get rid of MF from gears and have it only in consumables.
Problem solved.

I wouldn’t argue against this either. As a matter of fact. The whole thing makes me quite bitter and angry.

Negativity.5801:

Magic find doesn’t belong in dungeons. The dungeon content is supposed to be challenging and push players to perform well, giving incentive for players to wear magic find in dungeons is three steps back in what dungeons should be.

This is like some sick joke by Anet where rather then fix dungeons to be more challenging, they give incentive to wear magic find in dungeons where selfish players will drop stats for magic find thus making the dungeon more difficult. Mobs die more slowly, players die more easily, all because of an antiquated stat like magic find. It makes dungeons harder in a terrible way.

kitten off with the magic find gear

I whole heartedly agree. I read a post recently where the dev who builds the dungeons said he runs with a set mixed with magic find gear. That’s right… the DEVELOPER of the dungeons mixes magic find in his gear… further encouraging people to do so.

I’m extremely annoyed.

Making magic find consumable only is the perfect solution. Reimburse people in some way for the current magic find gear. And we are good.

Yenn.9185:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

1) I run in guild but I still use MF .. No one complains because I get the job done
2) If you are in an inactive guild, join an active one? Multi-guilding is possible!

Is it perhaps possible that you’re guild/party members does NOT run with magic find? Don’t you think that they are doing more than you? In other words picking up the slack.

Well it’s all good right, because they’re you’re guild members. Surely, in a big guild, at least 4 people are sitting in LA looking to run dungeons and waiting for you to show up. ( I am in a big guild btw, 300+ members 80+ online at primetime)

We recently played against Subject Alpha. I’m the only one who could survive the whole ordeal, making it possible for them to respawn and run back without him getting health back. I don’t think they are doing more then me. The only difference my MF set does with a non-MF set is that I don’t have more critical dmg and I have 90 less power. It doesn’t change a lot.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Yenn.9185:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

1) I run in guild but I still use MF .. No one complains because I get the job done
2) If you are in an inactive guild, join an active one? Multi-guilding is possible!

Is it perhaps possible that you’re guild/party members does NOT run with magic find? Don’t you think that they are doing more than you? In other words picking up the slack.

Well it’s all good right, because they’re you’re guild members. Surely, in a big guild, at least 4 people are sitting in LA looking to run dungeons and waiting for you to show up. ( I am in a big guild btw, 300+ members 80+ online at primetime)

We recently played against Subject Alpha. I’m the only one who could survive the whole ordeal, making it possible for them to respawn and run back without him getting health back. I don’t think they are doing more then me. The only difference my MF set does with a non-MF set is that I don’t have more critical dmg and I have 90 less power. It doesn’t change a lot.

It doesn’t change a lot if only 1 player on the party is the “leecher”, if everyone does it you will multiply the difficulty and time spent doing the dungeon.
You can’t argue that since you are skilled you are better than others while using MF because if you take into consideration everyone is at the same skill level MF gear = worse.
In fact, a set of green gear adapted to your build is probably better than MF exotic gear with random worse stats. The difference is not 90 less power, it’s probably 90 power from the armor itself, then X more from the jewerly, and X more from the runes…coupled with pretty much all your critical damage if it’s the case of berseker gear, that’s a bit more than just 90 less power…it’s 1/2 of your damage.

The problem with magic find is that it’s something you feel you’re missing out on if you don’t have it, but having it doesn’t make the game feel more fun.

I remember in Diablo 2 you’d feel awesome equipping full magic find then taking out a boss to see three unique items drop. But in that game you’d never consider wearing full magic find gear for general play because you’d die too easily.

However in GW2 you CAN get away with wearing full magic find gear if your team as a whole is strong enough. The fun of dungeons for me comes from feeling like you’re really contributing to the team, so I have to choose between getting better drops but having less fun, or having more fun but getting worse drops.

A way to solve this could be to have a small personal magic find cap and then have all magic find higher than the cap get divided amongst the party. That way you can still benefit from having a little magic find for yourself but also give something back to your party if you have lots of it.

Magic find should be the stat bonus that has ascended gears have over exotics: ascended stats = exotic stats + MF.

Lower tiered gear shouldn’t have MF at all. It should be replaced with something else.

Crazy… last time I ran TA with 2 guildies and 2 pick-ups, I ran MF AND still drew all the aggro.

Stats only help you so much, if you can’t maximize your skills effectively and mitigate damage properly you’re doomed to fail no matter what gear you have. Assuming MF gear brings the party down is pathetic, learn your profession better if you’re failing at dungeons because that’s what will help you get ahead.

Merthax.5172:

Magic find should be the stat bonus that has ascended gears have over exotics: ascended stats = exotic stats + MF.

Lower tiered gear shouldn’t have MF at all. It should be replaced with something else.

Actually, That’s a brilliant idea. I’m going to throw out a suggestion thread for that.

MF shouldn’t work in dungeons, simple as that. In dungeons, it encourages you to diminish your own contribution to the group as a whole, to selfishly reap more rewards for yourself.

Essentially, it is a contribute less => get more mechanic, which is simply bad design imho. Either spread it over the group somehow or get rid of it as a whole.

Merthax.5172:

Magic find should be the stat bonus that has ascended gears have over exotics: ascended stats = exotic stats + MF.

Lower tiered gear shouldn’t have MF at all. It should be replaced with something else.

That’s a really good idea actually!

GW2 = Gear Wars 2 ?

Bad trend developing leading the game into WoW like gear snobs.

wintermute.4096:

MF shouldn’t work in dungeons, simple as that. In dungeons, it encourages you to diminish your own contribution to the group as a whole, to selfishly reap more rewards for yourself.

Essentially, it is a contribute less => get more mechanic, which is simply bad design imho. Either spread it over the group somehow or get rid of it as a whole.

I wouldn’t even want it to be spread throughout the group to be honest. Just remove it. It’s ridiculous.

Bvhjdbvkjf.1987:

Crazy… last time I ran TA with 2 guildies and 2 pick-ups, I ran MF AND still drew all the aggro.

Stats only help you so much, if you can’t maximize your skills effectively and mitigate damage properly you’re doomed to fail no matter what gear you have. Assuming MF gear brings the party down is pathetic, learn your profession better if you’re failing at dungeons because that’s what will help you get ahead.

Yeah, because getting aggro in this game = you doing the highest dps…ermmmm…not.

It’s not unreasonable to consider that these dungeon encounters were balanced with the idea that players would have at least some of their available stats allocated towards “magic find”. It’s not like they balanced it around the idea that everyone is min-maxing.

All these arguments saying MF doesn’t matter if you’re inherently a good player is nonsense. It doesn’t matter how good you are – you’d still be better wearing no MF at all. The issue is that they’re making a conscious decision to kitten yourself stat wise for your own personal gain. It’s not entirely the player’s fault since Anet are clearly encouraging it with their latest update to dungeon loot. Making chest loot drops scale to your amount of MF you have is plain ridiculous and a slap in the face to everyone who doesn’t want to use it. Magic Find in dungeons is a severely flawed design philosophy and has no business being in the game outside of consumables. For what reason are players forced to decide between kittening themselves or having worse drops? It just doesn’t make sense.

Get rid of Magic Find….or at least get rid of it for ALL dungeon type runs….players can still use it in the world map but for all instances….turn it of Arenanet.

Sleepy.2647:

Bvhjdbvkjf.1987:

Crazy… last time I ran TA with 2 guildies and 2 pick-ups, I ran MF AND still drew all the aggro.

Stats only help you so much, if you can’t maximize your skills effectively and mitigate damage properly you’re doomed to fail no matter what gear you have. Assuming MF gear brings the party down is pathetic, learn your profession better if you’re failing at dungeons because that’s what will help you get ahead.

Yeah, because getting aggro in this game = you doing the highest dps…ermmmm…not.

Well when you roll and Ele and are constantly the furthest away from the mobs, then you can possibly explain to me how one gets all the aggro without doing highest DPS…

Cause I sure don’t use an effing shield to draw aggro.

God all I see on these forums is people kittening whining over the stupidest things. This game is skill based, I’ve seen people in MF gear outperform those who aren’t. It doesn’t matter who has what, as long as you can play your class and dodge at the right times you’re gonna do fine. kitten tards.

Keep in mind that stats from gear are only 21% of the stats that affect your character’s performance.

So yeah, you could have had 165 more toughness if you’d gone with Sup rune of the guardian instead of traveler. But you were born with 916, and maybe have 300 from traits, and it turns out those 165 points just aren’t all that super important if you use your skills.

Guys the solution to this problem has already been invented. Paragon Levels! It gives all the grinding fans something to strive towards, and eventually you won’t even need MF gear! Yaaay!

How did magic find turn into a tanking discussion?

My opinion on magic find.

It’s obviously a carry-over from GW1 and other classic rpgs which really should have been given the chop long ago.

It produces a “rich get richer” environment in which the people who need gear most are least likely to receive it, because gear drops are balanced around its presence, and lowbies/newbies are not going to have it immediately.

Additionally, it rewards people who cripple their effectiveness for their parties in dungeons and dynamic events, making them harder to down.

I really think they should remove at least the itemized ones on gear and upgrades, lower the boosts from other sources, and re-balance drop rates around that to lower the differential on it.

plasmacutter.2709:

It’s obviously a carry-over from GW1 and other classic rpgs which really should have been given the chop long ago.

Where was magic find in GW1? I don’t remember it.

I actually kind of agree for dungeons: there should be a cap, but for outside that there shouldn’t be. If you want to farm, go to Orr.

To my mind, Magic Find is perfectly fine for solo content. If you want to make things harder for yourself in return for better rewards? Great.

But in a group, playing at anything less than your best isn’t just hurting you, it’s hurting your team, they have a much higher risk to themselves, and have to do much more work to carry you, while you get all the rewards for your bad behavior. That isn’t right. They should make one of two major changes to how things work:

1. Have Magic Find be averaged between a group. This means that if you have +200% MF and nobody else has any, then everyone’s loot would be based on having 40% MF, including your own. You may not be contributing your fair share towards the group’s success, but you would at least be upping their pay day. If everyone decided to take the risk of wearing +200% MF gear then they would all benefit from that shared stat.

OR

2. Make it so that MF gear does not apply at all to dungeon chest and mob loot tables. This would make it completely useless during dungeon runs, and therefore discourage its use in all cases.

Either would make the situation more fair.

plasmacutter.2709:

Additionally, it rewards people who cripple their effectiveness for their parties in dungeons and dynamic events, making them harder to down.

You won’t cripple your effectiveness, because gear stats only comprise 21% of the stats affecting your character’s performance. Most of it comes from your level and traits. Not to mention skills and how you deploy them.

mulch.2586:

plasmacutter.2709:

Additionally, it rewards people who cripple their effectiveness for their parties in dungeons and dynamic events, making them harder to down.

You won’t cripple your effectiveness, because gear stats only comprise 21% of the stats affecting your character’s performance. Most of it comes from your level and traits. Not to mention skills and how you deploy them.

I’m not buying the 21% effectiveness thing.

I have a pretty standard GS build on my mesmer and all rares on it.

People in exotics hit spatial surge for 1.5k

I hit it for 900.

Gear matters more than 21%

Personally, I find that people that complain about magic find are typically the same people that will complain about any number of insignificant things in order to shield themselves from scrutiny. Often, the guy complaining about MF is the guy doing the least for his team, and blaming his misfortune on “ALL THE DANG [Edit] LEECHERS!”

If you moved MF to consumables only people would start complaining about their pugs eating non-stat foods.

There are two ways to profit from dungeons, MF and quick runs. The thing is, MF runs tend to have a much more reliable turnout in terms of gain due to the vastly higher numbers of greens-exotics found. Quick runs tend to have a higher turnout in terms of end rewards, but honestly, changing gear alone typically still only adds a little time to the run.

Also keep in mind not everyone runs back to back dungeons. Some people run one a day, or one a week, or whatever. Point is every dungeon can be done perfectly well in a team with full on MF gear, and if my group wants to run it in MF gear why shouldn’t we be able to?

MF gear won’t make or break a run when played by competant players. Players that can do the run effectively in full on stat gear usually have no problem doing it in MF gear as well. In fact, MF gear is what you swap to when you “have it on farm” becuase that’s what MF gear is for. Farming. What MF gear changes is the time it takes those players to complete the run. If your group is running the dungeon purely for fast tokens, then yeah, MF doesn’t make a ton of sense. If your group is running dungeons to make gold in addition to tokens, then MF gear makes a ton of sense.

If You’re THAT serious about teetotalling your run times, then start to find other players with a similar speedrun mentality and build a friends list of those types of players.

Don’t try to spoil it for people who actually like to do full MF runs, as ingame people generally don’t care what gear you have on as long as you do your job effectively. Its like requiring all guardians to run a buffbot build, or all warriors to run crit. MF is a build decision, and if its effecting you it’s entirely possible that it wasn’t the MF gear that caused it as much as it was the bad player who badly designed his build to work with the MF gear.

[Edited by CC: This short might be considered as an insult in this context]

plasmacutter.2709:

mulch.2586:

plasmacutter.2709:

Additionally, it rewards people who cripple their effectiveness for their parties in dungeons and dynamic events, making them harder to down.

You won’t cripple your effectiveness, because gear stats only comprise 21% of the stats affecting your character’s performance. Most of it comes from your level and traits. Not to mention skills and how you deploy them.

I’m not buying the 21% effectiveness thing.

I have a pretty standard GS build on my mesmer and all rares on it.

People in exotics hit spatial surge for 1.5k

I hit it for 900.

Gear matters more than 21%

Even if it is 21% 10% 5%… the fact is that you are performing LESS than you could in exchange for personal gain all within a team setting. There is no I in team… but I guess there is an M and an E after all.

Jasher.6580:

plasmacutter.2709:

mulch.2586:

plasmacutter.2709:

Additionally, it rewards people who cripple their effectiveness for their parties in dungeons and dynamic events, making them harder to down.

You won’t cripple your effectiveness, because gear stats only comprise 21% of the stats affecting your character’s performance. Most of it comes from your level and traits. Not to mention skills and how you deploy them.

I’m not buying the 21% effectiveness thing.

I have a pretty standard GS build on my mesmer and all rares on it.

People in exotics hit spatial surge for 1.5k

I hit it for 900.

Gear matters more than 21%

Even if it is 21% 10% 5%… the fact is that you are performing LESS than you could in exchange for personal gain all within a team setting. There is no I in team… but I guess there is an M and an E after all.

Do you also complain that every PUG isn’t a team full of DPS guardians that can bubble their way to near AFK runs in half the time?

I mean talking “run efficiency” is a slippery slope when you really get down to it. Do you complain people aren’t eating food AND potions with perfect stats for their build at all times? Do you complain when someone goes AFK?

In all of these situations you are performing at “less than optimal” yet somehow I never hear anyone making threads about them.

I’m much less concerned with run efficiency and more concerned with the fact that gear drops are balanced around the presence of this stat, and that means people who need the gear are least likely to get it because they’re least likely to have magic find sets.

How does someone other than yourself having better magic find impact your gear drops though?

PopeUrban.2578:

How does someone other than yourself having better magic find impact your gear drops though?

ANet takes into account the ability to boost magic find, and nerfs the base rate by X% to compensate.

plasmacutter.2709:

PopeUrban.2578:

How does someone other than yourself having better magic find impact your gear drops though?

ANet takes into account the ability to boost magic find, and nerfs the base rate by X% to compensate.

So, what you’re saying is that magic find, in stead of being a tradeoff for core stats just shouldn’t exist? MF is a tradeoff for core stats specifically to reward the ability to perform well without them, and to be completely honest, it is really not that difficult to acquire the gear you need in this game compared to most others.

I better understand your point now but I can’t say that I agree with it.

PopeUrban.2578:

plasmacutter.2709:

PopeUrban.2578:

How does someone other than yourself having better magic find impact your gear drops though?

ANet takes into account the ability to boost magic find, and nerfs the base rate by X% to compensate.

So, what you’re saying is that magic find, in stead of being a tradeoff for core stats just shouldn’t exist? MF is a tradeoff for core stats specifically to reward the ability to perform well without them, and to be completely honest, it is really not that difficult to acquire the gear you need in this game compared to most others.

I better understand your point now but I can’t say that I agree with it.

Fair enough. I do think magic find is bugged now, though.

When I hit 80 I bought rare grade pow/prec/magic find trinkets for +15% magic find, and since then my loot quality has actually tanked. I’m thinking of removing all MF gear again.