Guild Wars 2

Let me start by saying that this post might be a bit long and hard to read for some people. I also don’t want it to be a typical “GW2 is crap now, I’m leaving” topic. I actually LIKE the game, most people on these forums probably do. I just want to point out a few things that bother me, so they can improve the experience for people like me.

As a guy who have been playing for around 3 years, I feel like they keep adding more and more content focused around new players, while forgetting about veterans. Personal story might be an exception, but not everyone likes it. I feel extremely “meh” about it. I only ever finish it, because I have literally nothing else to do in the game.

Here’s a list of changes I actually liked:
- Dye system, good job on that one,
- Skins; Transmutation Charges,
- Vault for minis
- New titles and achievements
- All the little things
- Megaservers
- Tutorials for new players

Unfortunately, even those things have its faults. Because of megaservers, some events became easier to participate in, while others are extremely hard to do. For example – I couldn’t manage to do Dwayna for the entire day. Just because the temple wouldn’t get contested.
Tutorials are a good thing for new, inexperienced players, but they also “dumb down” the entire starting area. It’s good that you require newbies to learn dodging, but why all the limitations? There is no need to give them 1 weapon skill at a time. There’s no need to give them things like reviving other players and using waypoints over time. It’s easy.
If you look at Archage, it has an enormous world with hundreds of options and features and people are OKAY. They slowly learn how to do things.
I’m afraid that putting diapers over players will make the game unbearable at some point.
The saddest example is probably one quest about helping a lady on her farm in Queensdale. You’re supposed to help her with feeding cows, watering the plants, killing bandits, getting rid off the wurms. If you talk to her, she will ask you for help. You have a sign telling you what to do, yet, apparently, some players can’t connect the dots. Because of that, aNET decided to accomodate their lack of ability to think and they made it much easier.
That makes me sad. Very, very sad.
I know not everyone knows everything at the beggining of the game, but something as simple as that shouldn’t make any problems to begin with.
There’s a cow, there’s a bag of feed next to it. How can you NOT figure out that you’re supposed to feed it, with a giant sign telling you to do so? I’m sorry if I offended anyone, but I just can’t figure it out.

Moving on, another problem I have is the actual content. A new map (Dry Top) has been added around 2 years after the game launched. No new races, no new classes. Just one map in 2 years of time. Does it mean that they plan to complete the world map creation in around 30-40 years? Because that’s a bit long…or maybe that’s just my opinion.
That’s the part of the game I like the most though, and that’s why I’m a bit worried. I have 11 characters, all classes, all races, most of them are level 80. And I have nothing to do. Maybe my standards are too high, but you would think that they would add new classes or races, considering how many character slots you can own.
I never played in Guild Wars 1, I would absolutely love to play as one of those Tengu people I heard so much about. I’d rather wait 6 months for this one race than get 6 months worth of personal story and other content. Please guys, move in that direction.

My biggest problem though, is the way leveling up works. And this has been said many times now. Since the trait update, getting from level 1-60 has become a CHORE.
There is absolutely nothing fun about getting few skillpoints every few levels. For some reason, you also did the absolute opposite thing of what you were supposed to do with traits.
Let me put it this way – when you start (nowadays), you can use one weapon skill. That’s it. You slowly unlock new things, and maybe if you somehow manage to survive the lack of choices until level 50, you might get interested in the game. New players who didn’t play in GW1 will probably never purchase a game that gives them so little choices at the beggining.
And yes, I realize getting levels in this game is pretty easy, but it also used to be fun! I remember how much fun I used to have unlocking new traits and skills, getting new gear.
Now you have one skill, one weapon set (until like level 10 or 15), no traits to fool around with and anything that you get, that isn’t either rare or exotic, is complete garbage. When I first started playing, I was actually happy whenever I found blues and greens. I felt like I have to be careful with my money. Sometimes I would run around the map instead of using waypoints, just to be able to afford to fix my gear. AND IT WAS SO MUCH FUN.
Now it’s not. Everything is either free, easy, or requires for you to grind day and night.
Please give people (especially new players) more space. Let them try out traits, let them work on builds, let them find out how they want to play BEFORE they hit level 80. I guarantee you that it would make the game so much better.

Whenever you have a 50% off sale, or you allow people to try the game out, I actually let most of my friends who didn’t buy the game know. I’m trying to convince them that it’s worth buying. But as the time goes, I feel more and more like I’m lying to them. Mostly, because this game isn’t going in the direction I hope/feel it should be going. And sadly, I’m not the only one.

I probably have more things to say, but I feel like I poked the most important things. Again, this is just my personal opinion, my views – you don’t have to agree with them. I just feel like improving these things would make the experience for every player out there much more fun.

Thanks to everyone who actually read this.

Well, it might be a better read if it was a bit more factual. Many things you listed are not locked behind levels, they are available but not mentioned until said later levels. We have received more than 1 map in two years, albeit not many.

I actually enjoy the new fast-paced early leveling, but each to their own. Rewards at each level-up are fun…to me.

I’m sure many people will agree with your post, though, as it (basically) has appeared many times in the forum.

Uh, you have been playing the game for 3 years…..of course leveling a new character is going to be tedious and/or old stuff to you, even with some leveling changes. Expecting Anet to change the game just because you are so familiar with the routine now isn’t much of a reason, imo.

Might I suggest you give the game a long break and try something else? That is what I do when a game becomes a bit dull for me. Best of luck!

First of all, I’m not sure how you can say you’ve been playing for about three years when the game just hit it’s two year anniversary. Even the first beta wouldn’t make it that much and the beta weekends are a few weekends here and there.

The changes to level 1-10 would be irrelevant for most players. If that’s the kind of thing that makes you very very sad, I’m not sure what to tell you. I feel this is an over reaction.

I’ve not many anyone who thinks the new trait system is fun or good as it is, I’d have to agree with that.

But the one thing you’re not taking into account was the failed experiment that was Season 1 of the Living Story. While the game has undoubtedly been out for two years, the Living Story Season 1 took effort and time to create, but it didn’t further the game in the way that people wanted it too. All that new stuff is not in the game, but also, stuff like classes and races and maps took a back seat.

The new living story is only a three months old now, we have a new zone with more promised next month. So your calculations on timing are a bit off. If you start by looking at the Living Story now, as compared to the Living Story a year ago,. you’ll see were’re getting newer areas to explore rather more often.

And Anet has said straight out they didn’t want to add a lot of new zones until the megaserver was in place, because they didn’t want old zones to get deserted. So until April 15, they really didn’t want to work on or add new zones.

You’re probably worrying too much about how much content is actually coming and the form it will take. I agree we do need a new profession/race and more maps.

I simply believe you’ll start seeing that stuff coming. In fact, we already have with the maps.

I subscribe to the above mentioned concerns !

And once again, since a certain nobody on this forum seem to have an answer for everything and an already dangerous, pathological urge to kiss buttocks, I’ll present them in a shorter/easier way:

Is GW2 some sick reincarnation of “Young & Restless” ?!

Are we doomed to log in and stare at the screen for the next 30-40 years, waiting for the world map to become available and filled with playable content ?

Are we supposed to pass this game to our kids, as a family legacy ?

I can only imagine something like
“-Listen, son, I have something very important to tell you… You know, the money I have put aside and the house and all… You will get all of them, of course, but only when you have successfully covered the entire world map in the game that my father started to play way back in the stone age. You know I tried to continue his quest, my son. I tried my best, God knows I tried, your mother knows I tried, and I can only hope that ArenaNet knows as well, God bless their souls. But I’m old now, my sight grew dim and my hands are not able to hold the mouse anymore … Now promise you’ll continue my work and let me die in peace…”

Vayne.8563:

The changes to level 1-10 would be irrelevant for most players. If that’s the kind of thing that makes you very very sad, I’m not sure what to tell you. I feel this is an over reaction.

I would normally agree with this but…
1) It’s limiting the game. Whether or not it’s affecting me isn’t important.
2) Dancing in front of cows, rather than feeding them is so astronomical stupid that I simply can’t get over that.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Vayne.8563:

The changes to level 1-10 would be irrelevant for most players. If that’s the kind of thing that makes you very very sad, I’m not sure what to tell you. I feel this is an over reaction.

I would normally agree with this but…
1) It’s limiting the game. Whether or not it’s affecting me isn’t important.
2) Dancing in front of cows, rather than feeding them is so astronomical stupid that I simply can’t get over that.

But it’s literally minutes of game time and that heart can be completed without dancing in front of cows. That’s a fact. It’s limiting the game,. but things always limited games and things have always limited this game. Saying that something is limiting the game for the first hour you play is okay. Making a big deal about it….maybe not so much. It’s easy to focus on that first ten levels. It’s the easiest thing in the world to do. But it’s still a relatively small area of the game. Focusing on it does show it’s not idea, but also increases the perceived importance of it.

One thing they teach you in writing class is that the more time you spend on a character, the more important readers will expect the characters to be.

Me, I think the trait thing is far more important and until that’s fixed, I don’t really care about the cows, stupid or not stupid. For the record, I agree they’re stupid. They’re not stupid enough to take over so much of the forums.

In fact, what they are is a constantly repeated example of a bigger problem, but most people don’t mention the bigger problem.

If Anet just fixes the cows and does nothing else, most people will be disappointed.

Why are people so upset about the cows? Just don’t get the horror of it all. As for storytelling games now remind me of penny dteadfuls, all games. You put out content to be mass consumed, take it for what it is.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Vayne.8563:

The changes to level 1-10 would be irrelevant for most players. If that’s the kind of thing that makes you very very sad, I’m not sure what to tell you. I feel this is an over reaction.

I would normally agree with this but…
1) It’s limiting the game. Whether or not it’s affecting me isn’t important.
2) Dancing in front of cows, rather than feeding them is so astronomical stupid that I simply can’t get over that.

Wha-whaaaaat!? Dancing in front of cows!½!½111!!! THIS IS HORRIBLE, OUTRAGOUS, IT HAS A MASSIVE NEED TO TYPE IN BIG EXTRA THICK TEXT SO EVERYONE SEES IT! Oh I am quitting this game! Dancing in front of cows!? What comes next, mounts!? pchhtt…

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Vayne.8563:

The changes to level 1-10 would be irrelevant for most players. If that’s the kind of thing that makes you very very sad, I’m not sure what to tell you. I feel this is an over reaction.

I would normally agree with this but…
1) It’s limiting the game. Whether or not it’s affecting me isn’t important.
2) Dancing in front of cows, rather than feeding them is so astronomical stupid that I simply can’t get over that.

Wha-whaaaaat!? Dancing in front of cows!½!½111!!! THIS IS HORRIBLE, OUTRAGOUS, IT HAS A MASSIVE NEED TO TYPE IN BIG EXTRA THICK TEXT SO EVERYONE SEES IT! Oh I am quitting this game! Dancing in front of cows!? What comes next, mounts!? pchhtt…

It is indeed as stupid as it could get. Just because some peolpe aren’t able to get rid of the weed when they were attacked and wondered why they had no weapon skills.

I agree 100% with you op. I know there are the Anet yes men on here who would do anything Anet says, but the fact is you are speaking the truth. It has been two years and we had a piece of the map open, woohoo! This is like the scraps that Anet threw at us with Southsun, and that was a year after its release. Now we get the Massive expansion of Drytop two years after its release, while in about 40 years maybe we will get 40 new zones to explore, one for each year.

The more that the truth comes out the more it frustrates me, not just because this is how Anet is releasing the “New maps” but because there are actually people that support this type of behavior!

I also agree fully on the leveling up system. I have tried to bring new players to GW2 including my coworker, but it has become increasingly difficult to feel like I am telling them a lie due to the fact that the game has become a hazard to new players in general. My cousin quit because of the level up system and he just purchased the game a few weeks ago, I have a feeling the coworker I talked into buying GW2 will do the same. Leveling up used to be fun, and exploring was amazing but now leveling up is a drag and exploring is tedious.

The more that Anet works on the game the more they do wrong with it and the less fun it becomes. Yes they introduced the features that you pointed out which are good moves, but that doesn’t affect the overall content of the game. I would rather have the old transmutation stone feature back with the old leveling up system than the new wardrobe feature with the new leveling up system.

I’d personally also add that they should just reduce the level gap to 20 instead of 80. I see no point in it being 80 at all apart from having a major grind for nothing lol
I feel a positive effect would be that you can change the zones that are over level 20 to the end-game zones (or perhaps even level 20-30 zones). This way you increase the playing field for everyone that has max level and with (another) revamp of the trait system it could actually make sense.

Then again, just implement GW1 with new graphics and I’m happy! :P

Vayne.8563:

First of all, I’m not sure how you can say you’ve been playing for about three years when the game just hit it’s two year anniversary. Even the first beta wouldn’t make it that much and the beta weekends are a few weekends here and there.

The changes to level 1-10 would be irrelevant for most players. If that’s the kind of thing that makes you very very sad, I’m not sure what to tell you. I feel this is an over reaction.

I’ve not many anyone who thinks the new trait system is fun or good as it is, I’d have to agree with that.

But the one thing you’re not taking into account was the failed experiment that was Season 1 of the Living Story. While the game has undoubtedly been out for two years, the Living Story Season 1 took effort and time to create, but it didn’t further the game in the way that people wanted it too. All that new stuff is not in the game, but also, stuff like classes and races and maps took a back seat.

The new living story is only a three months old now, we have a new zone with more promised next month. So your calculations on timing are a bit off. If you start by looking at the Living Story now, as compared to the Living Story a year ago,. you’ll see were’re getting newer areas to explore rather more often.

And Anet has said straight out they didn’t want to add a lot of new zones until the megaserver was in place, because they didn’t want old zones to get deserted. So until April 15, they really didn’t want to work on or add new zones.

You’re probably worrying too much about how much content is actually coming and the form it will take. I agree we do need a new profession/race and more maps.

I simply believe you’ll start seeing that stuff coming. In fact, we already have with the maps.

I just hit my second birthday on the character I made at least few months after the game release, that’s why I said nearly 3 years and so I have no idea why would you say the game had “2 year anniversary” not that long ago. I do apologize for this minor mistake though.

The changes they made for early levels might be irrelevant to you, but it’s thanks to the first few tries that people decide if they either like the game or not. It’s hard to interest a friend to play this game when they give such harsh restrictions through the first few levels.

I’m not sure why would you want me to just ignore that year of wasted content, especially that our new living story didn’t offer much neither, except for a few pretty nice-looking cutscenes. They clearly still put all of their focus on living story and new players, forgetting that vets might not have anything to do. So I’m sorry that I don’t share your optimism, Vayne. Some people simply won’t wait 2 years for a real piece of content.
I do hope that you’re right though, because I simply won’t take waiting another 2 years for a new map. (And by new map, I mean one that doesn’t appear once a year for 2 weeks or so).

Looka.6078:

I subscribe to the above mentioned concerns !

And once again, since a certain nobody on this forum seem to have an answer for everything and an already dangerous, pathological urge to kiss buttocks, I’ll present them in a shorter/easier way:

Is GW2 some sick reincarnation of “Young & Restless” ?!

Are we doomed to log in and stare at the screen for the next 30-40 years, waiting for the world map to become available and filled with playable content ?

Are we supposed to pass this game to our kids, as a family legacy ?

I can only imagine something like
“-Listen, son, I have something very important to tell you… You know, the money I have put aside and the house and all… You will get all of them, of course, but only when you have successfully covered the entire world map in the game that my father started to play way back in the stone age. You know I tried to continue his quest, my son. I tried my best, God knows I tried, your mother knows I tried, and I can only hope that ArenaNet knows as well, God bless their souls. But I’m old now, my sight grew dim and my hands are not able to hold the mouse anymore … Now promise you’ll continue my work and let me die in peace…”

That’s actually pretty hilarious…and sad. XD

Yargesh.4965:

Why are people so upset about the cows? Just don’t get the horror of it all. As for storytelling games now remind me of penny dteadfuls, all games. You put out content to be mass consumed, take it for what it is.

Because COWS ARE AWESOME. How can you not agree that the idea of feeding cows is genius?
Seriously though, I’m a bit worried, because anet has this amazing quest system with basically lack of limitations. It’s worrying that they would go back, use less of it simply because people can’t connect the dots. I’m afraid that they might ‘dumb down’ the game for everyone in the future.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Vayne.8563:

snip

I just hit my second birthday on the character I made at least few months after the game release, that’s why I said nearly 3 years and so I have no idea why would you say the game had “2 year anniversary” not that long ago. I do apologize for this minor mistake though.

The changes they made for early levels might be irrelevant to you, but it’s thanks to the first few tries that people decide if they either like the game or not. It’s hard to interest a friend to play this game when they give such harsh restrictions through the first few levels.

I’m not sure why would you want me to just ignore that year of wasted content, especially that our new living story didn’t offer much neither, except for a few pretty nice-looking cutscenes. They clearly still put all of their focus on living story and new players, forgetting that vets might not have anything to do. So I’m sorry that I don’t share your optimism, Vayne. Some people simply won’t wait 2 years for a real piece of content.
I do hope that you’re right though, because I simply won’t take waiting another 2 years for a new map. (And by new map, I map one that doesn’t appear once a year for 2 weeks or so).

Looka.6078:

I subscribe to the above mentioned concerns !

And once again, since a certain nobody on this forum seem to have an answer for everything and an already dangerous, pathological urge to kiss buttocks, I’ll present them in a shorter/easier way:

Is GW2 some sick reincarnation of “Young & Restless” ?!

Are we doomed to log in and stare at the screen for the next 30-40 years, waiting for the world map to become available and filled with playable content ?

Are we supposed to pass this game to our kids, as a family legacy ?

I can only imagine something like
“-Listen, son, I have something very important to tell you… You know, the money I have put aside and the house and all… You will get all of them, of course, but only when you have successfully covered the entire world map in the game that my father started to play way back in the stone age. You know I tried to continue his quest, my son. I tried my best, God knows I tried, your mother knows I tried, and I can only hope that ArenaNet knows as well, God bless their souls. But I’m old now, my sight grew dim and my hands are not able to hold the mouse anymore … Now promise you’ll continue my work and let me die in peace…”

That’s actually pretty hilarious…and sad. XD

Yargesh.4965:

Why are people so upset about the cows? Just don’t get the horror of it all. As for storytelling games now remind me of penny dteadfuls, all games. You put out content to be mass consumed, take it for what it is.

Because COWS ARE AWESOME. How can you not agree that the idea of feeding cows is genius?
Seriously though, I’m a bit worried, because anet has this amazing quest system with basically lack of limitations. It’s worrying that they would go back, use less of it simply because people can’t connect the dots. I’m afraid that they might ‘dumb down’ the game for everyone in the future.

I didn’t in fact ask you to ignore a year of wasted content. You expressed a concern at the speed of releases and I pointed out that the stuff you were talking about is being released faster in the new season. It’s called allaying concerns you brought up. Unless you just want to have concerns without taking into account that the landscape has changed.

Which would mean you want to complain and not hear anything at all that might allay your “fears”. The situation HAS changed. The new situation exists for a shorter period of time. It’s a bit premature to be scared.

Vayne.8563:

I didn’t in fact ask you to ignore a year of wasted content. You expressed a concern at the speed of releases and I pointed out that the stuff you were talking about is being released faster in the new season. It’s called allaying concerns you brought up. Unless you just want to have concerns without taking into account that the landscape has changed.

Which would mean you want to complain and not hear anything at all that might allay your “fears”. The situation HAS changed. The new situation exists for a shorter period of time. It’s a bit premature to be scared.

Really? What changed? Do you see a new map, a new race, a new class? Did they do anything with the traits? They actually went backwards, making the beggining of the game extremely tedious and repetitive.
I’m afraid I have absolutely no idea about what are you talking about.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Vayne.8563:

I didn’t in fact ask you to ignore a year of wasted content. You expressed a concern at the speed of releases and I pointed out that the stuff you were talking about is being released faster in the new season. It’s called allaying concerns you brought up. Unless you just want to have concerns without taking into account that the landscape has changed.

Which would mean you want to complain and not hear anything at all that might allay your “fears”. The situation HAS changed. The new situation exists for a shorter period of time. It’s a bit premature to be scared.

Really? What changed? Do you see a new map, a new race, a new class? Did they do anything with the traits? They actually went backwards, making the beggining of the game extremely tedious and repetitive.
I’m afraid I have absolutely no idea about what are you talking about.

Dry Top isn’t a new map? You can’t say that they haven’t started releasing new areas faster than in the past and reportedly we’re getting more new area to explore in November.

I’m not sure why you think that’s not a change. We’ve gotten more new area in the past three months that we’ve had in the year and a half before that, and it’s just started.

If you don’t recognize a change then there’s not much else to say on the matter. We don’t have a new race or new profession yet, but at very least we do have a new zone.

Edit: And with that zone came new enemies with better AI, new stories, new craftable weapons, new events and new achievements.

Vayne.8563:

But it’s literally minutes of game time and that heart can be completed without dancing in front of cows. That’s a fact. It’s limiting the game,. but things always limited games and things have always limited this game. Saying that something is limiting the game for the first hour you play is okay. Making a big deal about it….maybe not so much. It’s easy to focus on that first ten levels. It’s the easiest thing in the world to do. But it’s still a relatively small area of the game. Focusing on it does show it’s not idea, but also increases the perceived importance of it.

For a new player, those first ten minutes represent their entire time spent in the game. That time should be spent doing something engaging and fun, something that offers a bit of a preview of what’s to come, something that sets the tone for the rest of the game. Not some silly nonsense. Feeding the cows and watering the crops were actions that made sense within the context of the rural setting. It was something that people actually do. Maybe not quite as portrayed, but close enough. Dancing with cows, on the other hand, is a whole big pile of silly nonsense. Is that the devs vision for the game? Is that the impression they want to give to potential new players? Look, here’s a bunch of silly nonsense. Enjoy! (Obviously it was for whoever came up with the cow catapult and the cow combat training.)

Anet claims they want to retain new players. I say this part of NPE contradicts that claim.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

But it’s literally minutes of game time and that heart can be completed without dancing in front of cows. That’s a fact. It’s limiting the game,. but things always limited games and things have always limited this game. Saying that something is limiting the game for the first hour you play is okay. Making a big deal about it….maybe not so much. It’s easy to focus on that first ten levels. It’s the easiest thing in the world to do. But it’s still a relatively small area of the game. Focusing on it does show it’s not idea, but also increases the perceived importance of it.

For a new player, those first ten minutes represent their entire time spent in the game. That time should be spent doing something engaging and fun, something that offers a bit of a preview of what’s to come, something that sets the tone for the rest of the game. Not some silly nonsense. Feeding the cows and watering the crops were actions that made sense within the context of the rural setting. It was something that people actually do. Maybe not quite as portrayed, but close enough. Dancing with cows, on the other hand, is a whole big pile of silly nonsense. Is that the devs vision for the game? Is that the impression they want to give to potential new players? Look, here’s a bunch of silly nonsense. Enjoy! (Obviously it was for whoever came up with the cow catapult and the cow combat training.)

Anet claims they want to retain new players. I say this part of NPE contradicts that claim.

Unless you can prove that a percentage of people don’t enjoy stupid silly stuff, you can’t say how many people would be turned off by it. Sure it turns you off. I’m not a big fan either, but I do have to say that there are probably people out there who do like it.

Which means their ten minutes will be enjoyable. Did you poll everyone, or are you just assuming most people will hate this?

This is hardly the only MMORPG with silly stuff in the first 10 minutes.

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

But it’s literally minutes of game time and that heart can be completed without dancing in front of cows. That’s a fact. It’s limiting the game,. but things always limited games and things have always limited this game. Saying that something is limiting the game for the first hour you play is okay. Making a big deal about it….maybe not so much. It’s easy to focus on that first ten levels. It’s the easiest thing in the world to do. But it’s still a relatively small area of the game. Focusing on it does show it’s not idea, but also increases the perceived importance of it.

For a new player, those first ten minutes represent their entire time spent in the game. That time should be spent doing something engaging and fun, something that offers a bit of a preview of what’s to come, something that sets the tone for the rest of the game. Not some silly nonsense. Feeding the cows and watering the crops were actions that made sense within the context of the rural setting. It was something that people actually do. Maybe not quite as portrayed, but close enough. Dancing with cows, on the other hand, is a whole big pile of silly nonsense. Is that the devs vision for the game? Is that the impression they want to give to potential new players? Look, here’s a bunch of silly nonsense. Enjoy! (Obviously it was for whoever came up with the cow catapult and the cow combat training.)

Anet claims they want to retain new players. I say this part of NPE contradicts that claim.

Unless you can prove that a percentage of people don’t enjoy stupid silly stuff, you can’t say how many people would be turned off by it. Sure it turns you off. I’m not a big fan either, but I do have to say that there are probably people out there who do like it.

Which means their ten minutes will be enjoyable. Did you poll everyone, or are you just assuming most people will hate this?

This is hardly the only MMORPG with silly stuff in the first 10 minutes.

I don’t like it, you don’t like it, lots of other people here have expressed that they don’t like it, but hey! We can’t prove there’s not somebody out there somewhere to whom dancing with cows is the ultimate gaming experience! That’s clearly the audience anet is after, so there! Pfft!

I’ll say it again.

This aspect of NPE is silly nonsense that contradicts – belies! – the reasons stated for its implementation.

New players aren’t going to care that they’re dancing in front of cows rather than feeding them, nor will they know. Having to pickup items was simple enough, but having your weapon skills replaced was confusing to some people. You can’t kill a bandit with a water bucket.

What ArenaNet did was make the first 5 minutes of the game as simple as possible and play out more like a traditional MMO, since players expect to be able to quest like in every other MMO.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

But it’s literally minutes of game time and that heart can be completed without dancing in front of cows. That’s a fact. It’s limiting the game,. but things always limited games and things have always limited this game. Saying that something is limiting the game for the first hour you play is okay. Making a big deal about it….maybe not so much. It’s easy to focus on that first ten levels. It’s the easiest thing in the world to do. But it’s still a relatively small area of the game. Focusing on it does show it’s not idea, but also increases the perceived importance of it.

For a new player, those first ten minutes represent their entire time spent in the game. That time should be spent doing something engaging and fun, something that offers a bit of a preview of what’s to come, something that sets the tone for the rest of the game. Not some silly nonsense. Feeding the cows and watering the crops were actions that made sense within the context of the rural setting. It was something that people actually do. Maybe not quite as portrayed, but close enough. Dancing with cows, on the other hand, is a whole big pile of silly nonsense. Is that the devs vision for the game? Is that the impression they want to give to potential new players? Look, here’s a bunch of silly nonsense. Enjoy! (Obviously it was for whoever came up with the cow catapult and the cow combat training.)

Anet claims they want to retain new players. I say this part of NPE contradicts that claim.

Unless you can prove that a percentage of people don’t enjoy stupid silly stuff, you can’t say how many people would be turned off by it. Sure it turns you off. I’m not a big fan either, but I do have to say that there are probably people out there who do like it.

Which means their ten minutes will be enjoyable. Did you poll everyone, or are you just assuming most people will hate this?

This is hardly the only MMORPG with silly stuff in the first 10 minutes.

I don’t like it, you don’t like it, lots of other people here have expressed that they don’t like it, but hey! We can’t prove there’s not somebody out there somewhere to whom dancing with cows is the ultimate gaming experience! That’s clearly the audience anet is after, so there! Pfft!

I’ll say it again.

This aspect of NPE is silly nonsense that contradicts – belies! – the reasons stated for its implementation.

This is a ridiculous argument. You’re saying a few people really don’t like it, without any idea of how many people think it’s cute. And I guarantee you a percentage of people do. This isn’t like rocket science.

It doesn’t really belie anything. It’s a silly thing in a game with other silly things. If they take that out, they should take out the other silly stuff in the game as well.

We will have to be patient and wait and see how the Living Story will continue on November 4th. It will show as another small glimpse on what is coming and what direction this is going. Will it be better or worse?
I think it will be for worse. I hope for better, but have been let down on so many updates so many times, that I just can’t see how they would have changed their mind.

The direction Anet is taking this game will mean I will once again stop playing it in near future. Maybe next year I will once again come back (for fourth time) and see what is going on, but that is the future and it is unfathomable.

The problem isn’t single cow heart quest, but the general idea that in Anet’s mind players are simpletons who give them their money. They should stop patronizing their player base and focus on real problems this game has and also on the things they have hinted will be on game since beta.
There is lot of hate on these forums, but also lot of concern on the way Anet operates and hides their plans. Little more clarity would help a lot to clear the air here.
On final note I would like to ask where is the “promised” class of Commando? I want my Elite skill Apache gunships to go for Tequatl and take him down.

I don’t mind that they have dancing with cows now. I mind that they’re going back, throwing their entire quest system away in order to help clueless people figure out how to do basic things. The cows are an example. If the idea of changing weapons is so confusing, all they really had to do is to put a giant picture in the middle of the screen saying “YOU EQUIPPED A BUCKET, YOU CAN’T ATTACK STUFF, TO UNEQUIP IT, CLICK ~” and that would be sufficient.
Instead they decided to just change this entire thing around. And since it had to be a majority of people who had this kind of problem – I suspect that there won’t be any challenge in the future at all, since people won’t be able to figure it out.

You can guide a person through the beggining, but what’s the point if that person lacks the ability to comprehend basic ideas, like watering the plants?
That’s the real issue….that and the fact that they would restrict players so much at the beggining.
As Tachenon said – first few hours of the game should be showing players what this game is about, let them have some fun, discover things for themselves. We don’t have that element in there now.

Healix.5819:

New players aren’t going to care that they’re dancing in front of cows rather than feeding them, nor will they know. Having to pickup items was simple enough, but having your weapon skills replaced was confusing to some people. You can’t kill a bandit with a water bucket.

What ArenaNet did was make the first 5 minutes of the game as simple as possible and play out more like a traditional MMO, since players expect to be able to quest like in every other MMO.

My personal opinion: the personal story should have started right away, as it did originally. Instead of arbitrarily adjusting the story arcs to start at every 10th level, they should have taken a more organic approach and let the story breathe. They should also have tweaked the scaling so that characters with limited abilities aren’t overwhelmed by too kitten many enemies all at once. Ahem. If they’d done that, they might have avoided the Greatest Fear mess.

Or maybe not.

Yoroiookami.3485:

I don’t mind that they have dancing with cows now. I mind that they’re going back, throwing their entire quest system away in order to help clueless people figure out how to do basic things. The cows are an example. If the idea of changing weapons is so confusing, all they really had to do is to put a giant picture in the middle of the screen saying “YOU EQUIPPED A BUCKET, YOU CAN’T ATTACK STUFF, TO UNEQUIP IT, CLICK ~” and that would be sufficient.
Instead they decided to just change this entire thing around. And since it had to be a majority of people who had this kind of problem – I suspect that there won’t be any challenge in the future at all, since people won’t be able to figure it out.

You can guide a person through the beggining, but what’s the point if that person lacks the ability to comprehend basic ideas, like watering the plants?
That’s the real issue….that and the fact that they would restrict players so much at the beggining.
As Tachenon said – first few hours of the game should be showing players what this game is about, let them have some fun, discover things for themselves. We don’t have that element in there now.

It takes less than an hour to get to level ten now and after that the experience with hearts and events is largely the same, so you can’t say the first several hours have really changed. The first hour has changed. That’s assuming that the person in question didn’t hit the bandit event and get the heart without ever dancing in front of the cows (which happened to me when I tried it).

Vayne.8563:

Yoroiookami.3485:

I don’t mind that they have dancing with cows now. I mind that they’re going back, throwing their entire quest system away in order to help clueless people figure out how to do basic things. The cows are an example. If the idea of changing weapons is so confusing, all they really had to do is to put a giant picture in the middle of the screen saying “YOU EQUIPPED A BUCKET, YOU CAN’T ATTACK STUFF, TO UNEQUIP IT, CLICK ~” and that would be sufficient.
Instead they decided to just change this entire thing around. And since it had to be a majority of people who had this kind of problem – I suspect that there won’t be any challenge in the future at all, since people won’t be able to figure it out.

You can guide a person through the beggining, but what’s the point if that person lacks the ability to comprehend basic ideas, like watering the plants?
That’s the real issue….that and the fact that they would restrict players so much at the beggining.
As Tachenon said – first few hours of the game should be showing players what this game is about, let them have some fun, discover things for themselves. We don’t have that element in there now.

It takes less than an hour to get to level ten now and after that the experience with hearts and events is largely the same, so you can’t say the first several hours have really changed. The first hour has changed. That’s assuming that the person in question didn’t hit the bandit event and get the heart without ever dancing in front of the cows (which happened to me when I tried it).

I highly doubt that it takes less than an hour, especially for a completely new player. Even if that’s true, it still makes the game way more tedious at the beggining. You have to wait until level 5 to rally; level 7 to get your 4th weapon skill; level 10 to start personal story and to actually discover vistas. And I’m sorry, but if these things were overwhelming for new players, chances are – they will get to level 10 in several hours.

It’s not just the cows, or the golems, or the gating. What was done with those things makes GW2 a lesser game than it was, but there’s also this (see picture below): that was part of my new player experience back when GW2 was young, and in my personal opinion, that was better by far than what we have now.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Vayne.8563:

Yoroiookami.3485:

I don’t mind that they have dancing with cows now. I mind that they’re going back, throwing their entire quest system away in order to help clueless people figure out how to do basic things. The cows are an example. If the idea of changing weapons is so confusing, all they really had to do is to put a giant picture in the middle of the screen saying “YOU EQUIPPED A BUCKET, YOU CAN’T ATTACK STUFF, TO UNEQUIP IT, CLICK ~” and that would be sufficient.
Instead they decided to just change this entire thing around. And since it had to be a majority of people who had this kind of problem – I suspect that there won’t be any challenge in the future at all, since people won’t be able to figure it out.

You can guide a person through the beggining, but what’s the point if that person lacks the ability to comprehend basic ideas, like watering the plants?
That’s the real issue….that and the fact that they would restrict players so much at the beggining.
As Tachenon said – first few hours of the game should be showing players what this game is about, let them have some fun, discover things for themselves. We don’t have that element in there now.

It takes less than an hour to get to level ten now and after that the experience with hearts and events is largely the same, so you can’t say the first several hours have really changed. The first hour has changed. That’s assuming that the person in question didn’t hit the bandit event and get the heart without ever dancing in front of the cows (which happened to me when I tried it).

I highly doubt that it takes less than an hour, especially for a completely new player. Even if that’s true, it still makes the game way more tedious at the beggining. You have to wait until level 5 to rally; level 7 to get your 4th weapon skill; level 10 to start personal story and to actually discover vistas. And I’m sorry, but if these things were overwhelming for new players, chances are – they will get to level 10 in several hours.

It makes the game way more tedious to you. That’s all you can say. Since you’re not a new player and no one can ever really forget what they know, we really have no idea how a new player will find the game.

Your expectations will obviously tell you the game is less than it was. A new player, coming in with no expectations at all, might have a completely different experience.

Yoroiookami.3485:

I’m not sure why would you want me to just ignore that year of wasted content, especially that our new living story didn’t offer much neither, except for a few pretty nice-looking cutscenes. They clearly still put all of their focus on living story and new players, forgetting that vets might not have anything to do.

It wasnt wasted content, the 1 year 1/2 of temporary content we were given essentially gave me and other 1 1/2 years of content to play. You seem to suggest living story is not content for vets (I guess thats what you mean when you said “They clearly still put all of their focus on living story and new players, forgetting that vets might not have anything to do.”) yet now you cant even do Living story until you’re max level .

Now I think there are some things people need to understand because all these post feel like people are missing some important aspects of MMOs in general.

Nearly every single MMO bar very few exceptions release temporary content. Gw2 took it a step further by actually removing the content but make no mistake other games still removed their content not figuratively by they did logically. Quests cannot be repeated. Whole expansions can be out-leveled and provide no rewards etc.. And yes you can create an Alt but Somehow I think you can count the people who created an alt spend months leveling them just so they can replay a specific quest they enjoyed on one hand. Game developers dont do this because they dont know what they’re doing but because its necessary. If you leave all your content in game and allow all players to pick and choose what content to play you’re going to get player fragmentation which very undesirable of course. Like vayne said Megaservers was the first step to mitigate that opening the doors to hopefully more new zones and more permanent content.

Expansions… so many people call for expansions because they claim what we got so far is just not enough content. Fair enough. Now we dont even know if an expansion is in the works or not, lets hope it is because if not there is one important thing people seem to be missing here. Working on content for living story isnt slower then working on content for an Expansion. If Anet had decided to never go with living story and focus on Expansions they wouldnt magically have been able to create 25 new zones, a longer story line then what we got through the living story, another 1500 new dynamic events, 8 new dungeons, 9 new fractals, 2 new races, 2 new professions and ton of new skills. They would have been able to create exactly the same amount of stuff they gave us till now. introducing 2 new races would have meant cutting out other content to make up for the time creating 2 new races would take which isnt a little.

Of course its entirely possible and in my opinion quite likely they’re actually working on an expansion in parallel with the living story. If not ditching the living story and focusing on expansions will not make the situation better it would make it a lot worst. 2 years wait for content you’d consume in a month or two isnt exactly better then content every 2 weeks you can consume in a couple of hours.

Aither.2859:

I agree 100% with you op. I know there are the Anet yes men on here who would do anything Anet says, but the fact is you are speaking the truth. It has been two years and we had a piece of the map open, woohoo!

because of course if those “yes men” were to mention Anet released not just part of a new map since release but also Southsun, 12 fractals, 1 new dungeon path, some new jumping puzzles and guild missions, the crown pavillion, Edge of the mists, 4 new PvP Maps, cragstead, the hatchery, the mad realm, the wintersday realm thing and the toy apocalypse dungeon not to mention SAB as well as though temporarily they also worked on and released maps like the tower of nightmares, the mad king dungeon, scarlet’s play house, labyrinthean cliffs as well as release 2 reworked zones (kessex hills and LA) we’d be entirely lieing cause obviously only … “no men?” can be objective.

can we stop once and for all, ohh the opinion of those people who like the game and what arenanet are doing don’t count cause only people who dont like the game can be objective line once an for all. You got an issue please go ahead and speak it but can we refrain from opinion the whole argument by belittling those who might not agree with you?

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

But it’s literally minutes of game time and that heart can be completed without dancing in front of cows. That’s a fact. It’s limiting the game,. but things always limited games and things have always limited this game. Saying that something is limiting the game for the first hour you play is okay. Making a big deal about it….maybe not so much. It’s easy to focus on that first ten levels. It’s the easiest thing in the world to do. But it’s still a relatively small area of the game. Focusing on it does show it’s not idea, but also increases the perceived importance of it.

For a new player, those first ten minutes represent their entire time spent in the game. That time should be spent doing something engaging and fun, something that offers a bit of a preview of what’s to come, something that sets the tone for the rest of the game. Not some silly nonsense. Feeding the cows and watering the crops were actions that made sense within the context of the rural setting. It was something that people actually do. Maybe not quite as portrayed, but close enough. Dancing with cows, on the other hand, is a whole big pile of silly nonsense. Is that the devs vision for the game? Is that the impression they want to give to potential new players? Look, here’s a bunch of silly nonsense. Enjoy! (Obviously it was for whoever came up with the cow catapult and the cow combat training.)

Anet claims they want to retain new players. I say this part of NPE contradicts that claim.

I am not going to defend Anet on changing the feeding the cow thing because like you I just cannot see why it was needed at all. Not to mention I agree it was not a change for the better.

That being said I dont see how this will effect anything really. Do you honestly think a single player will decide whether to stick with a game or not based on 1 activity out of a selection of activities as minor as dancing / feeding a cow?

Its silly no doubt especially for us who saw how it was before but lets not forget humor is part of Gw2. Asura zone is full of little funny snippets. Even human area has its fair share of humor. if you dont like humor in your mmo dancing for the cow is not the straw thats going to break the camel’s back I have no doubt about that.

For clarification, could someone write up a full list of new content (i.e. zones and dungeons) added since release that is STILL in the game?

I’ve heard about LS S1. It’s not here anymore. Same for SAB, same for Zephyr Sanctum, same for many seasonal events. The only “new” things that exist as far as I am aware are Southsun Cove, Dry Top, EotM, a small couple of fractals and SPvP maps and the Aetherpath (an unpopular path that replaced an equally unpopular path). Two zones is not exactly a lot to show after two years of mostly-squandered development time.

Anet has a problem with removing content. It is pervasive and ever-present, and shows no signs of stopping. The fact that an entire arc of the Personal Story was intentionally removed with no prior notice or explanation to date is rings as exemplar to this fundamental flaw in development and design.

I may be a relatively new player, but I am not in any way surprised when I see disenfranchised veterans drowning in disillusionment via /map chat; it is as far as I can tell the obvious conclusion, not the unreasonable one. The game has refused to change.

I really would like that list, by the way.

Galen Grey.4709:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

But it’s literally minutes of game time and that heart can be completed without dancing in front of cows. That’s a fact. It’s limiting the game,. but things always limited games and things have always limited this game. Saying that something is limiting the game for the first hour you play is okay. Making a big deal about it….maybe not so much. It’s easy to focus on that first ten levels. It’s the easiest thing in the world to do. But it’s still a relatively small area of the game. Focusing on it does show it’s not idea, but also increases the perceived importance of it.

For a new player, those first ten minutes represent their entire time spent in the game. That time should be spent doing something engaging and fun, something that offers a bit of a preview of what’s to come, something that sets the tone for the rest of the game. Not some silly nonsense. Feeding the cows and watering the crops were actions that made sense within the context of the rural setting. It was something that people actually do. Maybe not quite as portrayed, but close enough. Dancing with cows, on the other hand, is a whole big pile of silly nonsense. Is that the devs vision for the game? Is that the impression they want to give to potential new players? Look, here’s a bunch of silly nonsense. Enjoy! (Obviously it was for whoever came up with the cow catapult and the cow combat training.)

Anet claims they want to retain new players. I say this part of NPE contradicts that claim.

I am not going to defend Anet on changing the feeding the cow thing because like you I just cannot see why it was needed at all. Not to mention I agree it was not a change for the better.

That being said I dont see how this will effect anything really. Do you honestly think a single player will decide whether to stick with a game or not based on 1 activity out of a selection of activities as minor as dancing / feeding a cow?

Its silly no doubt especially for us who saw how it was before but lets not forget humor is part of Gw2. Asura zone is full of little funny snippets. Even human area has its fair share of humor. if you dont like humor in your mmo dancing for the cow is not the straw thats going to break the camel’s back I have no doubt about that.

It’s not just the cows. Other starter zone things were altered/removed. The cows are just a convenient NPE ‘poster child’, if you will, so that we don’t have to recite every change every time.

Akira.5746:

For clarification, could someone write up a full list of new content (i.e. zones and dungeons) added since release that is STILL in the game?

I’ve heard about LS S1. It’s not here anymore. Same for SAB, same for Zephyr Sanctum, same for many seasonal events. The only “new” things that exist as far as I am aware are Southsun Cove, Dry Top, EotM, a small couple of fractals and SPvP maps and the Aetherpath (an unpopular path that replaced an equally unpopular path). Two zones is not exactly a lot to show after two years of mostly-squandered development time.

Anet has a problem with removing content. It is pervasive and ever-present, and shows no signs of stopping. The fact that an entire arc of the Personal Story was intentionally removed with no prior notice or explanation to date is rings as exemplar to this fundamental flaw in development and design.

I may be a relatively new player, but I am not in any way surprised when I see disenfranchised veterans drowning in disillusionment via /map chat; it is as far as I can tell the obvious conclusion, not the unreasonable one. The game has refused to change.

I really would like that list, by the way.

Five fractals, at least a couple of new jumping puzzles, guild missions (including the three largish puzzles), all the living story season 2 content, the triple wurm encounter, the karka queen….you’re right, it’s not a huge list of stuff.

It was simply a bad decision by Anet to make content and remove it.

First, lol @4:3 screen, where do you live? In 1995?

Second, it’s not sad that they haven’t an expansion after two years, but it is sad that there is even nothing on the horizon after two years, no announcement, nada.
It’s just embarassing and abysmal updates over and over. Dress up doll, gem driven, shallow non-content. There are a few good things though: Dry Top looks gorgeous and the living story 2 is fine – nothing near Mass Effect or Deus Ex, but still OK. But that’s just it.

Vayne.8563:

Akira.5746:

For clarification, could someone write up a full list of new content (i.e. zones and dungeons) added since release that is STILL in the game?

I’ve heard about LS S1. It’s not here anymore. Same for SAB, same for Zephyr Sanctum, same for many seasonal events. The only “new” things that exist as far as I am aware are Southsun Cove, Dry Top, EotM, a small couple of fractals and SPvP maps and the Aetherpath (an unpopular path that replaced an equally unpopular path). Two zones is not exactly a lot to show after two years of mostly-squandered development time.

Anet has a problem with removing content. It is pervasive and ever-present, and shows no signs of stopping. The fact that an entire arc of the Personal Story was intentionally removed with no prior notice or explanation to date is rings as exemplar to this fundamental flaw in development and design.

I may be a relatively new player, but I am not in any way surprised when I see disenfranchised veterans drowning in disillusionment via /map chat; it is as far as I can tell the obvious conclusion, not the unreasonable one. The game has refused to change.

I really would like that list, by the way.

Five fractals, at least a couple of new jumping puzzles, guild missions (including the three largish puzzles), all the living story season 2 content, the triple wurm encounter, the karka queen….you’re right, it’s not a huge list of stuff.

It was simply a bad decision by Anet to make content and remove it.

Yup. As I said, back in the day: there is no excuse for non-seasonal temporary content in an MMO. I guess they listened, huh. Alas! If only they’d asked first…

/e sigh.

It’s clear, though, and sad, that they didn’t learn anything from that bad decision, because here they are making more bad decisions, one right after another:

• Megaserver = a bad decision, removing player choice – should I guest to a more populated server so I can do this zerg-a-thonic event? No! With megaserver, other server guests to you!

• The Trait System Revamp = an inexplicably bad decision that makes no sense whatsoever no matter how one spins it.

• NPE (as implemented) = yet another bad (and silly!) decision that reaches beyond the denatured starter zones and kitten slaps the continuity of the latter portions of the Personal Story.

In my personal opinion, of course.

ProtoGunner.4953:

First, lol @4:3 screen, where do you live? In 1995?

If you’re talking about my screenshot, 2006, actually. Yes, folks, you can play GW2 on a 2006 Dell XPS 400. :-D I’m on my 5th video card now, though, and they’ve produced screenshots of differing dimensions. I think this screenshot was from card #3.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Second, it’s not sad that they haven’t an expansion after two years, but it is sad that there is even nothing on the horizon after two years, no announcement, nada.
It’s just embarassing and abysmal updates over and over. Dress up doll, gem driven, shallow non-content. There are a few good things though: Dry Top looks gorgeous and the living story 2 is fine – nothing near Mass Effect or Deus Ex, but still OK. But that’s just it.

No argument from me.

Akira.5746:

For clarification, could someone write up a full list of new content (i.e. zones and dungeons) added since release that is STILL in the game?

I’ve heard about LS S1. It’s not here anymore. Same for SAB, same for Zephyr Sanctum, same for many seasonal events. The only “new” things that exist as far as I am aware are Southsun Cove, Dry Top, EotM, a small couple of fractals and SPvP maps and the Aetherpath (an unpopular path that replaced an equally unpopular path). Two zones is not exactly a lot to show after two years of mostly-squandered development time.

Anet has a problem with removing content. It is pervasive and ever-present, and shows no signs of stopping. The fact that an entire arc of the Personal Story was intentionally removed with no prior notice or explanation to date is rings as exemplar to this fundamental flaw in development and design.

I may be a relatively new player, but I am not in any way surprised when I see disenfranchised veterans drowning in disillusionment via /map chat; it is as far as I can tell the obvious conclusion, not the unreasonable one. The game has refused to change.

I really would like that list, by the way.

Permanent Map Still In Game accessable at will:
Southsun Cove
Edge of the Mists
Dry Top
Destroyed Lion’s Arch
Crown Pavilion
4x PvP Maps (temple of the silent Storm, Spirit Watch, Sky Hammer, Courtyard)
12 fractals
Aetherblade Dungeon Path in TA
Some new maps introduced in Guild Missions
Not so secret jumping puzzle
Sanctum Sprint
Cragstead
The Hatchery
New Mini Dungeons -> Forsaken Fortune, Vexa’s Lab

Maps Available During Events that occur periodically
Wintersday -> Winter Wonderland, The Snowball mayhem arena, Bell Choir, Tixx’s Infinitariaum
Halloween -> The Labyrinth, Mad King Clock Tower, Reaper Rumble
SAB
Labyrinthine Cliffs? (may or may not coming back after the destruction of zephyr sanctum)

Maps that where temporary:
Aetherblade retreat
Mad king dungeon
Reaper’s Rumble
Blood Prince Dungeon
Tower of Nightmares
Marionette Arena
Occupied Kesseks Hills

Galen Grey.4709:

Aither.2859:

I agree 100% with you op. I know there are the Anet yes men on here who would do anything Anet says, but the fact is you are speaking the truth. It has been two years and we had a piece of the map open, woohoo!

because of course if those “yes men” were to mention Anet released not just part of a new map since release but also Southsun, 12 fractals, 1 new dungeon path, some new jumping puzzles and guild missions, the crown pavillion, Edge of the mists, 4 new PvP Maps, cragstead, the hatchery, the mad realm, the wintersday realm thing and the toy apocalypse dungeon not to mention SAB as well as though temporarily they also worked on and released maps like the tower of nightmares, the mad king dungeon, scarlet’s play house, labyrinthean cliffs as well as release 2 reworked zones (kessex hills and LA) we’d be entirely lieing cause obviously only … “no men?” can be objective.

can we stop once and for all, ohh the opinion of those people who like the game and what arenanet are doing don’t count cause only people who dont like the game can be objective line once an for all. You got an issue please go ahead and speak it but can we refrain from opinion the whole argument by belittling those who might not agree with you?

If you put it this way, yes, they really added plenty of stuff for everyone. Except, most of the things you listen is either seasonal or gone. I can understand why things like Mad King Dungeon or Wintersday activities are seasonal, but what about SAB?
That’s the mode I had the most fun with, it was challenging, brutal at times and it was so much fun. I just don’t understand why would they make it appear once a year for a month or two. If they’re worried about the rewards – make them more expensive, but keep this thing 24/7 for the entire year so people can have something different once in a while.
I don’t really understand why would they remove anything, like Sclerite weapons? Those weapons were pretty nice.

Also – most the stuff you listed has pretty much no point.

Tachenon.5270:

It’s not just the cows. Other starter zone things were altered/removed. The cows are just a convenient NPE ‘poster child’, if you will, so that we don’t have to recite every change every time.

Fair enough but the argument remains… The golem mini game wouldnt have been a better poster child in my opinion anyhow.

I have no clue if these things will help convince people to stay with the game or not. I cant see how they will to be honest but likewise I dont see how they will drive people away either.

Like vayne said, we will miss the golem mini game because we played it. Someone who is new will not really know what they’re missing.

Even for the more crucial stuff like unlocking weapon skills. For us who’ve done it so many times and happily saw them unlocked after 3 or so mob kills its one thing for someone coming new to the game, unlocking 1 skill per level is what they expect based on past MMO experiance or single player games. Theses changes as much as we dont agree with them and dont get me wrong I am there with you on that, they dont make the game worst then the competition if anything it brings it more in line yet at the same time it still has the edge by leveling much faster. Not just that but not all MMOs give you need skills to play with every level and very few if any give you an average of 15-25 skills to use (based on unlocking all 5 weapon skills and the different weapons you can use) by level 5. In fact very few give you 5 skills to use by level 5 never mind 25!

For us we perceive it as worst. For a new player the perception could be different. Perhaps even better then it was for us at the time. Why do I say that? there is no negative connotation of having lost the ability to unlock skills every couple of kills but the added benefit that leveling up is giving them real tangible benefits much better then we got leveling up those first few levels.

Southsun Cove - awesome, this one definitely counts.
Edge of the Mists - just another WvW map, fun, but nothing new for pve players.
Dry Top - very nice looking map with an unique mechanic.
Destroyed Lion’s Arch - no one cares.
Crown Pavilion - no one actually cares.
4x PvP Maps (temple of the silent Storm, Spirit Watch, Sky Hammer, Courtyard) - that’s good for pvp players I guess?
12 fractals - Perfect treat for masochists, but I guess it’s something.
Aetherblade Dungeon Path in TA - I don’t know anyone who enjoys it at all.
Some new maps introduced in Guild Missions – that’s pretty decent.
Not so secret jumping puzzle - Jumping puzzles are always fun.
Sanctum Sprint - Seasonal, or once a week. Unless I’m mistaken.
Cragstead - Don’t see too many people talking about this thing.
The Hatchery - I have no idea what that is.
New Mini Dungeons ? Forsaken Fortune, Vexa’s Lab - Seriously, no one does those unless they just happen to come by it or want to finish 100% of every map.
Maps Available During Events that occur periodically - I’m not sure what to say that. Are we nitpicking?
Wintersday? Winter Wonderland, The Snowball mayhem arena, Bell Choir, Tixx’s Infinitariaum - Those are all fun…ONCE A YEAR
Halloween ? The Labyrinth, Mad King Clock Tower, Reaper Rumble - Those are all fun…ONCE A YEAR
SAB - That’s also fun…ONCE A YEAR…sometimes once per 2 years.
Labyrinthine Cliffs? (may or may not coming back after the destruction of zephyr sanctum) - That’s a nice map, too bad it probably won’t appear ever again, unless the Lion’s Arch gets hurt again.
Maps that where temporary:
Aetherblade retreat
Mad king dungeon
Reaper’s Rumble
Blood Prince Dungeon
Tower of Nightmares
Marionette Arena
Occupied Kesseks Hills
Those are all, as you said, temporary. Woohoo.

I’m sorry if I sound rude, but I just don’t see all that much stuff to do. Especially that most of the things you listed is avaiable once a year for a month tops.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Galen Grey.4709:

Aither.2859:

I agree 100% with you op. I know there are the Anet yes men on here who would do anything Anet says, but the fact is you are speaking the truth. It has been two years and we had a piece of the map open, woohoo!

because of course if those “yes men” were to mention Anet released not just part of a new map since release but also Southsun, 12 fractals, 1 new dungeon path, some new jumping puzzles and guild missions, the crown pavillion, Edge of the mists, 4 new PvP Maps, cragstead, the hatchery, the mad realm, the wintersday realm thing and the toy apocalypse dungeon not to mention SAB as well as though temporarily they also worked on and released maps like the tower of nightmares, the mad king dungeon, scarlet’s play house, labyrinthean cliffs as well as release 2 reworked zones (kessex hills and LA) we’d be entirely lieing cause obviously only … “no men?” can be objective.

can we stop once and for all, ohh the opinion of those people who like the game and what arenanet are doing don’t count cause only people who dont like the game can be objective line once an for all. You got an issue please go ahead and speak it but can we refrain from opinion the whole argument by belittling those who might not agree with you?

If you put it this way, yes, they really added plenty of stuff for everyone. Except, most of the things you listen is either seasonal or gone. I can understand why things like Mad King Dungeon or Wintersday activities are seasonal, but what about SAB?
That’s the mode I had the most fun with, it was challenging, brutal at times and it was so much fun. I just don’t understand why would they make it appear once a year for a month or two. If they’re worried about the rewards – make them more expensive, but keep this thing 24/7 for the entire year so people can have something different once in a while.
I don’t really understand why would they remove anything, like Sclerite weapons? Those weapons were pretty nice.

Also – most the stuff you listed has pretty much no point.

Respectfully I disagree, as you can see on my new updated list, most of the stuff was permanent.

I am with you there, I’d love to have SAB around all the time. Makes for a great side activity.

I cant speak for Anet but I would imagine things like Sclerite weapons were temporary to make them more valuable by making increasing their rarity artificially. Just look at all the back pieces we got for finishing off living story releases. Those were trivial to earn and it shows because when ever we got a new one people complained they got too many back pieces already. If its easy to get it becomes trivial and even with a low drop rate if its permanently attainable eventually it will become easy to get as drop after drop is sold on the trading post.

Which stuff pretty much had no point? Fractals, dungeons, mini dungeons, jumping puzzles? its all content! Content thats at the core of the issue in this thread after all! the only two things you may say are pointless perhaps are the hatchery and cragstead though they too release after release had a part in the living story though a minor one at that.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Edge of the Mists - just another WvW map, fun, but nothing new for pve players.

Edge of the Mists and even WvW at that are PvPvE Maps. Maybe not all PvE Players care about a mix of PvP and PvE but I am sure some find that suitable content for them.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Destroyed Lion’s Arch - no one cares.
Crown Pavilion - no one actually cares.

I am a person and I care… and I am sure I am not the only one since the gauntlet had some of the most challenging solo content in the game and it took part right in the crown pavilion.

Yoroiookami.3485:

12 fractals - Perfect treat for masochists, but I guess it’s something.
Aetherblade Dungeon Path in TA - I don’t know anyone who enjoys it at all.

You know you can play fractals casually right? you dont need to repeat them adinfinitium and turn them in a tedious task. I am not much of a dungeon player, certainly dont understand how people keep repeating dungeons for ages but I do enjoy the occational dungeon / fractal run.

Shame you dont know anyone who enjoys the new path, here meet some of them here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/twilight/New-path-is-very-well-done-Hoping-for-more

Yoroiookami.3485:

Sanctum Sprint - Seasonal, or once a week. Unless I’m mistaken.

Its on a 4 day rotation not exactly seasonal.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Cragstead - Don’t see too many people talking about this thing.
The Hatchery - I have no idea what that is.
New Mini Dungeons ? Forsaken Fortune, Vexa’s Lab - Seriously, no one does those unless they just happen to come by it or want to finish 100% of every map.

Hatchery was the other map released with cragstead, its where you save frostbite from the molten alliance.

Also I am not sure how a map stops existing just cause it may not be that popular. Anyhow both those mini dungeons are also jumping puzzles so not sure how jumping puzzles are always fun but somehow not these two just cause there are mobs in them.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Maps Available During Events that occur periodically - I’m not sure what to say that. Are we nitpicking?

How are we nitpicking? once a year or not those maps didnt come out of the aether Anet had to create them and they take as much work as any other map to do. What difference does it make if its available 24/7 or once a year as long as it is content for you to enjoy. Do you play all content all the time? no I bet there is plenty of content available 24/7 that you havent touched in a year. A good example would be the hatchery I guess

Yoroiookami.3485:

[b]SAB – That’s also fun…ONCE A YEAR…sometimes once per 2 years.

Actually so far SAB was twice a year in the first year, once a year so far in the 2nd year. We never went 2 years inbetween SAB releases… so far.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Labyrinthine Cliffs? (may or may not coming back after the destruction of zephyr sanctum) - That’s a nice map, too bad it probably won’t appear ever again, unless the Lion’s Arch gets hurt again.

Its not so much as LA getting hurt again… that wouldnt matter no more zephr sanctum to aid LA anyway as more if they intend to use it for something else other then the bazaar. Or maybe a new sanctum after all it wasnt just one. anyhow we dont know hence why I marked it as an unknown.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Those are all, as you said, temporary. Woohoo.

I’m sorry if I sound rude, but I just don’t see all that much stuff to do. Especially that most of the things you listed is avaiable once a year for a month tops.

Temporary or not, it gave me content to play for a year and 1/2 . Without them the game would have been worst off .

Also with all due respect you need to count better. I listed 28 maps that are available 24/7, 9 that are seasonal and 7 that where temporary. Even adding those together most things I listed are available 24/7 (28 > 16)

Yoroiookami.3485:

There’s a cow, there’s a bag of feed next to it. How can you NOT figure out that you’re supposed to feed it, with a giant sign telling you to do so? I’m sorry if I offended anyone, but I just can’t figure it out.

DEAR LORD THANK YOU.

I just

I can’t

what is life, where are the gamers who played anything more than simon says

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Vayne.8563:

The changes to level 1-10 would be irrelevant for most players. If that’s the kind of thing that makes you very very sad, I’m not sure what to tell you. I feel this is an over reaction.

I would normally agree with this but…
1) It’s limiting the game. Whether or not it’s affecting me isn’t important.
2) Dancing in front of cows, rather than feeding them is so astronomical stupid that I simply can’t get over that.

Wha-whaaaaat!? Dancing in front of cows!½!½111!!! THIS IS HORRIBLE, OUTRAGOUS, IT HAS A MASSIVE NEED TO TYPE IN BIG EXTRA THICK TEXT SO EVERYONE SEES IT! Oh I am quitting this game! Dancing in front of cows!? What comes next, mounts!? pchhtt…

Nope, rubbing plants to make them grow is next. Oh wait, thats already there too.

Galen Grey.4709:

Yoroiookami.3485:

Edge of the Mists - just another WvW map, fun, but nothing new for pve players.

Edge of the Mists and even WvW at that are PvPvE Maps. Maybe not all PvE Players care about a mix of PvP and PvE but I am sure some find that suitable content for them.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Destroyed Lion’s Arch - no one cares.
Crown Pavilion - no one actually cares.

I am a person and I care… and I am sure I am not the only one since the gauntlet had some of the most challenging solo content in the game and it took part right in the crown pavilion.

Yoroiookami.3485:

12 fractals - Perfect treat for masochists, but I guess it’s something.
Aetherblade Dungeon Path in TA - I don’t know anyone who enjoys it at all.

You know you can play fractals casually right? you dont need to repeat them adinfinitium and turn them in a tedious task. I am not much of a dungeon player, certainly dont understand how people keep repeating dungeons for ages but I do enjoy the occational dungeon / fractal run.

Shame you dont know anyone who enjoys the new path, here meet some of them here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/twilight/New-path-is-very-well-done-Hoping-for-more

Yoroiookami.3485:

Sanctum Sprint - Seasonal, or once a week. Unless I’m mistaken.

Its on a 4 day rotation not exactly seasonal.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Cragstead - Don’t see too many people talking about this thing.
The Hatchery - I have no idea what that is.
New Mini Dungeons ? Forsaken Fortune, Vexa’s Lab - Seriously, no one does those unless they just happen to come by it or want to finish 100% of every map.

Hatchery was the other map released with cragstead, its where you save frostbite from the molten alliance.

Also I am not sure how a map stops existing just cause it may not be that popular. Anyhow both those mini dungeons are also jumping puzzles so not sure how jumping puzzles are always fun but somehow not these two just cause there are mobs in them.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Maps Available During Events that occur periodically - I’m not sure what to say that. Are we nitpicking?

How are we nitpicking? once a year or not those maps didnt come out of the aether Anet had to create them and they take as much work as any other map to do. What difference does it make if its available 24/7 or once a year as long as it is content for you to enjoy. Do you play all content all the time? no I bet there is plenty of content available 24/7 that you havent touched in a year. A good example would be the hatchery I guess

Yoroiookami.3485:

[b]SAB – That’s also fun…ONCE A YEAR…sometimes once per 2 years.

Actually so far SAB was twice a year in the first year, once a year so far in the 2nd year. We never went 2 years inbetween SAB releases… so far.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Labyrinthine Cliffs? (may or may not coming back after the destruction of zephyr sanctum) - That’s a nice map, too bad it probably won’t appear ever again, unless the Lion’s Arch gets hurt again.

Its not so much as LA getting hurt again… that wouldnt matter no more zephr sanctum to aid LA anyway as more if they intend to use it for something else other then the bazaar. Or maybe a new sanctum after all it wasnt just one. anyhow we dont know hence why I marked it as an unknown.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Those are all, as you said, temporary. Woohoo.

I’m sorry if I sound rude, but I just don’t see all that much stuff to do. Especially that most of the things you listed is avaiable once a year for a month tops.

Temporary or not, it gave me content to play for a year and 1/2 . Without them the game would have been worst off .

Also with all due respect you need to count better. I listed 28 maps that are available 24/7, 9 that are seasonal and 7 that where temporary. Even adding those together most things I listed are available 24/7 (28 > 16)

Oh I can count (most of the time), I simply ignored all the “maps” (which should be called more like zones, at best) that aren’t worth exploring or visiting at all. I’m not a big PvP person and I dislike fractals due to players being bumhurt 24/7 over nearly everything, so forgive me if a PvE player like me doesn’t see much to do in the game.
What actually counts as a map? Dry Top and Southsun Cove.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Oh I can count (most of the time), I simply ignored all the “maps” (which should be called more like zones, at best) that aren’t worth exploring or visiting at all. I’m not a big PvP person and I dislike fractals due to players being bumhurt 24/7 over nearly everything, so forgive me if a PvE player like me doesn’t see much to do in the game.
What actually counts as a map? Dry Top and Southsun Cove.

fair enough. I am a PvE player too and am happy we got each and every one of them including the PvP maps even though I only get to see them a handful of times per year.

That being said while you’re free to ignore all the maps if you feel like it that doesnt mean those maps were never created or aren’t accessible. If the issue with your statement wasnt with counting then it was with language. You said “Especially that most of the things you listed is available once a year for a month tops.” That’s not referencing your preference, its a blanket statement that the list I provided has more temporary maps then permanent maps. From what you explained it seems what you meant to say was taking into account my (your) preferences the maps that interest me (you) were mostly temporary. Such a statement is fair and I’d have no issue with it but I do have an issue with your original statement because its false.

Galen Grey.4709:

Akira.5746:

For clarification, could someone write up a full list of new content (i.e. zones and dungeons) added since release that is STILL in the game?

I’ve heard about LS S1. It’s not here anymore. Same for SAB, same for Zephyr Sanctum, same for many seasonal events. The only “new” things that exist as far as I am aware are Southsun Cove, Dry Top, EotM, a small couple of fractals and SPvP maps and the Aetherpath (an unpopular path that replaced an equally unpopular path). Two zones is not exactly a lot to show after two years of mostly-squandered development time.

Anet has a problem with removing content. It is pervasive and ever-present, and shows no signs of stopping. The fact that an entire arc of the Personal Story was intentionally removed with no prior notice or explanation to date is rings as exemplar to this fundamental flaw in development and design.

I may be a relatively new player, but I am not in any way surprised when I see disenfranchised veterans drowning in disillusionment via /map chat; it is as far as I can tell the obvious conclusion, not the unreasonable one. The game has refused to change.

I really would like that list, by the way.

Permanent Map Still In Game accessable at will:
Southsun Cove
Edge of the Mists
Dry Top
Destroyed Lion’s Arch
Crown Pavilion
4x PvP Maps (temple of the silent Storm, Spirit Watch, Sky Hammer, Courtyard)
12 fractals
Aetherblade Dungeon Path in TA
Some new maps introduced in Guild Missions
Not so secret jumping puzzle
Sanctum Sprint
Cragstead
The Hatchery
New Mini Dungeons -> Forsaken Fortune, Vexa’s Lab

Maps Available During Events that occur periodically
Wintersday -> Winter Wonderland, The Snowball mayhem arena, Bell Choir, Tixx’s Infinitariaum
Halloween -> The Labyrinth, Mad King Clock Tower, Reaper Rumble
SAB
Labyrinthine Cliffs? (may or may not coming back after the destruction of zephyr sanctum)

Maps that where temporary:
Aetherblade retreat
Mad king dungeon
Reaper’s Rumble
Blood Prince Dungeon
Tower of Nightmares
Marionette Arena
Occupied Kesseks Hills

You left out Deirdre’s Garden? I love that place.

sure I left out more stuff than that too. Its hard to keep track of whats new or what always was there. I only listed the stuff I was sure off.