Guild Wars 2

morrolan.9608:

Irrodesia.3907:

Part 3: The Problem

Pulling three quotes from Is it Fun? Colin Johanson on how ArenaNet Measures Success

I’d really like to see a comment from Colin on if he thinks they are still adhering to this and if so how can he possibly think the grind and cost for these weapons is ‘fun’.

Like IndigoSundown said right below you, it’s highly unlikely that Colin’s will come to the forum and talk or release an article that talks about what they expect to all of a sudden change.

Sungam.9204:

This is my story.

I loved your entire post. Sadly, I can only +1 it once. The main thing I wish people who come on here just to bash us for expressing our thoughts/concerns would understand is, we are expressing those thoughts/concerns because we love Guild Wars 2 and we don’t want to see it self-destruct or turn in to every other MMO.

HiddenNick.7206:

Another ‘AC gear is bad’ thread… It’s getting old. It differs from ‘mounts’ threads only by that you get a lot of +1 for making one.

While I am sorry that you feel that way, I would appreciate you didn’t come on here to derail the thread. Thanks :).

Let’s keep things civil here, please. Don’t instigate.

On Another Note

In light of the whole “I HAVE MY ASCENDED WEAPONS ALREADY”.

This doesn’t really bode well, in my opinion. I mean the whole concept behind going about the Ascended weapons was to make sure that people couldn’t get it ASAP 3-4 days after release… so despite knowing I probably won’t get a reply I’ll try anyways.

@Colin Johanson (if you read this):

People obtained Exotic gear faster than expected, so to answer that problem you put out Ascended gear.

So now, people are obtaining their Ascended gear faster than expected. This is without a doubt, a pattern. People stock-piled on T6 Materials or they simply converted IRL money to gems to convert to gold. Then those people go out and non-stop champion farm and all sorts of other farm in order to obtain the materials that they are unable to buy because it is account bound.

This, this very thing, is what they do. They rush everything that is thrown at them and if obtaining an item or reaching a goal can’t be reached fast enough by standard terms they find an alternative means of getting it.

Time-gating was never going to stop anyone from getting the weapon in the first five days. In fact, weren’t legendary weapons bumped to Ascended stats? Or supposed to be? (Not sure if it was actually done, haven’t looked in to it. Can anyone here confirm?)

By that alone, people already had their Ascended weapons on day one when the patch went live.

Now, I’m not saying that bumping up Legendary weapons to Ascended gear status was a bad idea or anything. I would most certainly HOPE that it would be, because those people worked hard for their legendary weapons and it would be insane for the legendary to all of a sudden to be obsolete.

But do you see the flaw in that logic? So after Ascended armor comes out and people obtain all of that faster than usual, now they have their full Ascended gear that was fully finished and 100% complete faster than expected.

The very people that you attempted to appease in giving them another tier to work towards, are going to do the same thing they did before:

‘AUGHH I HAVE MY MAX STAT GEAR WHAT DO I DO NOW? ANET GIVE US ANOTHER TIER TO WORK TOWARDS PLZ’

People that stockpile materials and gold like people on an episode of Doomsday Preppers or sit in town and play Virtual Wall Street: Black Lion Trading Edition all day aren’t exactly the average player base. Is there anything wrong with people that do that? No. In a situation like this will they realistically obtain something faster than the rest of the player base because of it? Yes.

So my question is: What are you going to do now?

What’s next? Legendary armor and more legendary weapons are cosmetic looks only, when that comes. But it’s not about having a legendary looking weapon for these people, is it?

The target group you have turned your attention to will always surpass your expectations.

Every. Single. Time.

They don’t want just ‘one more tier’ with ‘slightly better stats’. They are content for the time being, until they finished the entire Ascended gear set then it’s back the square one; now they need a new tier of gear with higher stats so they can feel like they are accomplishing something.

That target group isn’t one you can realistically keep happy. They came to Guild Wars 2 and couldn’t wrap their mind around the fact that, once you hit the final tier you never have to worry about BIS gear again. They never had that before, many couldn’t handle it and their brains went in to meltdown and they rejected that very concept.

So…. What ARE you going to do now?

I’ll admit I didn’t read the post, however if a good title does its job, I do have something to say:

Ascended is not a new direction in the game. In the PAX interview, Colin said that they always intended for people to put in effort to work towards max gear, however exotics turned out to be much easier to acquire than they anticipated. This is why ascended was released. And there will not be another tier for many years to come. So this is not a new direction for the game at all, just one that they have always been aiming for, but did not execute properly. It will stay at ascended.

Also the increased functionality from ascended is very minimal. You aren’t missing out on much if you stick with exotic. Ascended is meant to be a long term goal to give you the feeling of accomplishment. They are not putting us on a gear grind. Don’t feel like you need ascended right away to succeed. The game has not changed, they have not made it any harder.

Curo.2483:

I’ll admit I didn’t read the post, however if a good title does its job, I do have something to say:

Ascended is not a new direction in the game. In the PAX interview, Colin said that they always intended for people to put in effort to work towards max gear, however exotics turned out to be much easier to acquire than they anticipated. This is why ascended was released. And there will not be another tier for many years to come. So this is not a new direction for the game at all, just one that they have always been aiming for, but did not execute properly. It will stay at ascended.

Also the increased functionality from ascended is very minimal. You aren’t missing out on much if you stick with exotic. Ascended is meant to be a long term goal to give you the feeling of accomplishment. They are not putting us on a gear grind. Don’t feel like you need ascended right away to succeed. The game has not changed, they have not made it any harder.

Read my signature.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-27-guild-wars-2-preview

Irrodesia.3907:

HiddenNick.7206:

Another ‘AC gear is bad’ thread… It’s getting old. It differs from ‘mounts’ threads only by that you get a lot of +1 for making one.

While I am sorry that you feel that way, I would appreciate you didn’t come on here to derail the thread. Thanks.

Let’s keep things civil here, please. Don’t instigate.

You’re trying to convince those already convinced… People on this forum wrote generally everything in of hundreds like this. Your opinion is dominating this forum.

Those are just from the first page of the forum:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Holy-Grind-Wars-2/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/This-Game-Has-Changed
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/POLL-Feelings-on-Ascended-weapons/first#post2787636

And at the same time you’re saying that people that spend their lives on developing MMO’s and worked on this game for years that they don’t know what they are doing and why… Try to think first why some things are put in the game.

Grinding sucks, I get that part. Now, all this frustration is because people are so eager and want to obtain the ascended gear as early as possible. We have been doing just fine with exotics and thus there’s no reason why we couldn’t fight anymore with exotics gear just because there’s ascended weapons out there. Why not take your time and gradually obtain the darn thing. It’s the rush that frustrate you. If you get ascended gear today, you will log in tomorrow and next week. If you don’t get ascended gear today, you would still log on next week. What is there that changes in your routine except for a small increase in stats? Gold is to spent. If you complain about getting there, be it legendary or ascended gear, is too expensive, you have to answer me with a good kitten reason what estacy does it give to merely hoard all that gold and not to spend on anything.

Actually, I want the Ascended gear out of this game :o That or they remove the extra stats compared to Exotics.

stof.9341:

Actually, I want the Ascended gear out of this game :o That or they remove the extra stats compared to Exotics.

Pretty much this. The tier does more harm than good.

Sungam.9204:

I love Guild Wars 2. I can’t talk it up enough to all my friends and many of them played it casually. The problem is we have jobs and Guild Wars 2 pre-ascended allowed us to gear up and try new builds and new ways of playing the game in about 2 week’s casual time like you stated. Guild Wars 2 was one of the few games out there that allowed us to feel like we were not falling behind the curve. We could be in BiS gear and enjoy any aspect of this great game without it feeling like a chore. If the optimal meta builds changed it didn’t take a large investment of time or money to adjust to the new status quo.

Then fractals came and with it Ascended gear.
/snip
This is my story.

Sorry for the snip but it was long. I just wanted to say that your story could be my story on every major point you made.
There’s little more for me to say that I haven’t in other threads. I hope to be here as the game matures further and maybe its direction will stray back towards its foundation.

@Irrodesia

A really in depth description of your thoughts on ascended gear.
I for one share your perspective, but I would not have been able to describe it as well as you do.
Thank you for the time you put into writing this post. Not everyone shares your perspective of course, but I definitely do.

I too would much rather have been without the ascended weapons (gear in general). Since that’s apparently not an option, then I do wish they would add several ways of obtaining them that does not rely upon crafting or random drops.

I hate crafting with a passion. I can’t help it I just do.
Since my weapon set is spread out on all 3 crafting professions, I am in for a treat….

I know people will argue, that since I feel that way, then I should not acquire them, because it’s not that big of a deal anyway.
Maybe it’s not a big deal, but I am used to min a maximizing. Why would I want to put myself in a 5% disadvantage damage wise?
Moreover, it all adds up. The ascended armor is on its way.

I play with an old friend from Warcraft. When I set out to mine orichalcum, his only comment was: “Didn’t we choose this game because we did not have to grind?”
… And he has a point. That was actually one of the reasons we chose gw2.

One of the main reasons we eventually left Warcraft behind was that in order to get somewhere, you would have to log in every single day and pretty much do the same things repeatedly.
Often you would spend your time doing stuff you were not particular interested in, because you needed the rewards in order to perform your best.

Granted, it is not a fair comparison, as Warcraft pve wise was leaning heavily towards raids etc. You depended on others to a much higher extend as well if you wanted bis.
If I don’t log in every day in gw2 I will just progress slower than others. I can live with that part I guess. (Even though I would still rather be without it.)

The one positive thing about ascended weapons in gw2 I can think of: At least people can get them if they want to. They are not limited to a small elite group of players. You don’t have to be in a high end raiding guild in order to get them.

You do however have to endure crafting, and I still fail to see the point of ascended gear in the first place.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Gear-Ceiling-or-Perpetual-Gear-Roof-Raising/first#post2771435

The link is a question I posed in the forums. I want to believe that Colin means it when he says that he wants Ascended gear to be the ceiling. I really do. I don’t want to keep investing my precious gaming time in a game that wants to put me on arbitrary treadmills. I love playing multiple characters. I DON’T Alt. I DON’T have a main character. I play them all and I like to play them multiple ways. It keeps the game fresh. The only option I have to do that with now is playing in sPvP which I love(I have a custom arena) but I love PvE as well. Why would I build switch when I have a weapon and soon to be ascended armor that is WAY more powerful when all combined with ascended jewelry. I play A LOT and I just recently got all ascended gear on all 7 of my level 80 characters. It’s not much of a difference with 1 item here or there but when you mix it with Ascended weapons, armor and all jewelry, the stat differences are major. So now I can’t roll my support type stuff on my Ele? I have to sacrifice my damage set on a toon here or there? I realize that I could just go all damage on all my toons. I totally could! I don’t want to do that though. I want to be able to use different utility skills on my whim. I want to run support skills for dungeons on my Ele, Engie, and Guardian, but I don’t want to ONLY run 1 thing while I GRIND for weeks on end for all of my weapons and armor.

If I could have assurances that Ascended was indeed the ceiling, then I would be cool with it.

Iason Evan.3806:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Gear-Ceiling-or-Perpetual-Gear-Roof-Raising/first#post2771435

The link is a question I posed in the forums. I want to believe that Colin means it when he says that he wants Ascended gear to be the ceiling. I really do. I don’t want to keep investing my precious gaming time in a game that wants to put me on arbitrary treadmills. I love playing multiple characters. I DON’T Alt. I DON’T have a main character. I play them all and I like to play them multiple ways. It keeps the game fresh. The only option I have to do that with now is playing in sPvP which I love(I have a custom arena) but I love PvE as well. Why would I build switch when I have a weapon and soon to be ascended armor that is WAY more powerful when all combined with ascended jewelry. I play A LOT and I just recently got all ascended gear on all 7 of my level 80 characters. It’s not much of a difference with 1 item here or there but when you mix it with Ascended weapons, armor and all jewelry, the stat differences are major. So now I can’t roll my support type stuff on my Ele? I have to sacrifice my damage set on a toon here or there? I realize that I could just go all damage on all my toons. I totally could! I don’t want to do that though. I want to be able to use different utility skills on my whim. I want to run support skills for dungeons on my Ele, Engie, and Guardian, but I don’t want to ONLY run 1 thing while I GRIND for weeks on end for all of my weapons and armor.

If I could have assurances that Ascended was indeed the ceiling, then I would be cool with it.

You wont get any assurances. And deep inside you know why.

quaniesan.8497:

Grinding sucks, I get that part. Now, all this frustration is because people are so eager and want to obtain the ascended gear as early as possible. We have been doing just fine with exotics and thus there’s no reason why we couldn’t fight anymore with exotics gear just because there’s ascended weapons out there. Why not take your time and gradually obtain the darn thing. It’s the rush that frustrate you. If you get ascended gear today, you will log in tomorrow and next week. If you don’t get ascended gear today, you would still log on next week. What is there that changes in your routine except for a small increase in stats? Gold is to spent. If you complain about getting there, be it legendary or ascended gear, is too expensive, you have to answer me with a good kitten reason what estacy does it give to merely hoard all that gold and not to spend on anything.

Alright, I’ll bite.

You’re right, we have been doing just fine with Exotic gear. Thus why did we need Ascended gear in the first place? Because in the eyes of the GW2 team, players obtained it way too quickly. “We”, as in the player base as a whole, obtained it too quickly is what they are saying. They lumped every single player all in to one category, when in reality it was a select few hundred-esque players who obtained it way too quickly.

It’s not the rush that frustrates me, because I don’t feel rushed. Instead what frustrates me is for some unknown reason in order to implement Agony Resist and Infusions they had to come up with gear that has a ‘slightly better’ stats. Then they make that very gear absurd, in my opinion, to obtain.

If the gears ‘slightly better’ stats never existed in the first place and shared the same stats as Exotics, but instead was a Pink tier gear because it had Agony Resist and Infusion slots in order to do content that has the Agony conditions, that is fine. If the gear was able to be obtained by multiple ways, like for example: Dungeons Tokens, WvWvW Tokens, Karma Vendors… I would be fine with that! Give the player the option to pick how they wish to obtain the gear be it crafting, dungeons, WvWvW, Megabosses, Temples, basically whatever. Give US the option. Let US decide how we wish to obtain it.

You’re right, gold is to be spent. That’s the entire point of having an in-game currency.

Many people seem to be missing the main point here. The only reason, ONLY reason they made Ascended gear more difficult to obtain versus that of Exotic is because as I said before, Exotic was obtained far faster than anticipated by a certain type of player. Because they reached the final tier of gear rather easily (which was the whole point in the first place), they couldn’t even handle it.

The only thing that the players should be dumping massive amounts of gold, time, materials on is, hard-to-obtain-unique-skins. Because they are pretty, have special effects and look far more epic than the standard skins.

And since you mentioned Legendary gear and obtaining it, as I stated above is a part of that. Legendary gear is supposed to be the most epic looking stuff in the game. Special effects, special sounds, special everything. That’s the point. It’s supposed to be the hardest-to-obtain thing in the game.

I’ll even go a step further on Legendary weapons. I don’t think precursors or Legendary weapons should be bought off the Trading Post, why? What is so epic about someone who can convert IRL money to gold or whatever and buy it out? Nothing. Which is why they are going to change how to obtain precursors in the future to make it more meaningful.

We shouldn’t have to hoard gold and materials in order to obtain BIS gear, that was never the point nor the intention. Period.

Does Ascended gear have awesome effects? Does it look anything remotely like a Legendary? No? Then how to obtain is absurd.

If I’m going to be working towards Ascended gear that is now BIS it better have animated wings, sound effects, glows, footfall effects, special spell/attack effects on it or all of the above.

Don’t even get me started on when it comes time to upgrade all the gear to Infused Ascended.

Curo.2483:

I’ll admit I didn’t read the post, however if a good title does its job, I do have something to say:

Ascended is not a new direction in the game. In the PAX interview, Colin said that they always intended for people to put in effort to work towards max gear,

…contrary to all of their pre-Ascended public statements on the matter, of course.

ArenaNet has a nasty habit, when it comes to GW2, of saying “We always meant for it to be that way, people just misinterpreted what we said before” whenever they make changes they know will be, or turn out to be, massively unpopular.

I sincerely hope others like you continue to voice their thoughts. A(sscended)net should feel what many of its players are feeling.

That they allowed this blemish to contaminate WvW is doubly concerning to me and to several of my guildmates. Instead of wondering how I can best serve my world, I now find myself having to consider the best way to farm for this stupid gear so I don’t fall behind other PvPers. And it will continue. Goodbye alts, I guess. As if Guard Leech and Applied Fortitude weren’t dumb enough additions to WvW As(s) gear already.

Perhaps players should mimic the PGI and Mechwarrior Online debacle, and maybe then we’ll be heard. Funny signatures and all.

TainoFuerte.8136:

I sincerely hope others like you continue to voice their thoughts. A(sscended)net should feel what many of its players are feeling.

That they allowed this blemish to contaminate WvW is doubly concerning to me and to several of my guildmates. Instead of wondering how I can best serve my world, I now find myself having to consider the best way to farm for this stupid gear so I don’t fall behind other PvPers. And it will continue. Goodbye alts, I guess. As if Guard Leech and Applied Fortitude weren’t dumb enough additions to WvW As(s) gear already.

Perhaps players should mimic the PGI and Mechwarrior Online debacle, and maybe then we’ll be heard. Funny signatures and all.

I will sincerely keep posting on these forums and keep voicing my thoughts and concerns on the matter until one of two things happen:

• ArenaNet makes a change for the better of GW2

• ArenaNet bans me from posting on the forums, because I ask too many questions and point out too many things they’ve said that contradict one another.

And yes, WvWvW players take the hardest blow in all of this. It’s not fair for anyone in general, but I feel it really isn’t fair for them.

Curo.2483:

I’ll admit I didn’t read the post, however if a good title does its job, I do have something to say:

Ascended is not a new direction in the game. In the PAX interview, Colin said that they always intended for people to put in effort to work towards max gear, however exotics turned out to be much easier to acquire than they anticipated. This is why ascended was released. And there will not be another tier for many years to come. So this is not a new direction for the game at all, just one that they have always been aiming for, but did not execute properly. It will stay at ascended.

You’re basing your opinion on a damage control statement — aka spin. I know what he said in the Pax interview. I also know what he said to Eurogamer in 2011. The two don’t match up. If their intended direction changed between 2011 and launch — which is what his statements in the Pax interview imply — why remain silent on the change in direction until November 2012? Why wait to explain what they intended for exotic a year after launch? I choose to base my opinions on everything ANet has said, not just the latest spin. You, of course, can do as you wish.

Irrodesia.3907:

I’ll even go a step further on Legendary weapons. I don’t think precursors or Legendary weapons should be bought off the Trading Post, why? What is so epic about someone who can convert IRL money to gold or whatever and buy it out? Nothing. Which is why they are going to change how to obtain precursors in the future to make it more meaningful.

Using gw2spidy.com’s information, I took the LOWEST priced Legendary (sell price; Rodgort) and the data on gem transactions and ended up with a whopping $750 US dollar value. For the lowest priced sell order, mind you. If you wanted the Flameseeker Prophesies or something, that would be quite a bit more expensive. So i don’t think there is THAT much of a problem of trading money → gold → Legendary. It simply isn’t efficient enough for anyone to really do it, except for the really, really determined people who would just grind it out some other way, and doesn’t have a life.

IndigoSundown.5419

You’re basing your opinion on a damage control statement — aka spin. I know what he said in the Pax interview. I also know what he said to Eurogamer in 2011. The two don’t match up. If their intended direction changed between 2011 and launch — which is what his statements in the Pax interview imply — why remain silent on the change in direction until November 2012?

Bravo Sir, you nailed it. Why remain silent until November of 2012 you ask; because to have done otherwise would have cost them a GIGANTIC pre-release PR nightmare that may have cost them a huge financial loss.

The bottom line is, that GW2 was marketed for years as a game that would not have a heavy gear grind, no must-have classes for dungeons (trinity) and no stat-based vertical progression. It matters NOT the degree in which these elements were explicitly stated or implied. Because through forum posts, feedback and pre-release write-ups – the game company fully understood that the overwhelming majority of people believed those things.

Of course pre-release there were a great many false assumptions made about the game; but quite often whenever a false assumption became widespread, Anet would release a statement that cleared things up. Among the many pre-release “assumptions” made, and repeated endlessly for months on end and in every possible venue imaginable, was that GW2 would have a power/gear plateau once you achieved lvl 80 and a full set of exotics.

As a result, thousands of MMO fans were buzzing loudly about finally finding a full 100% horizontal-progression game for every mode of gameplay: PvE, WvW and PvP. And this was clearly understood as being a fact by the vast majority of people. Interestingly, insofar as the 100% horizontal-progression assumption went, at NO time did Anet feel they needed to “clear things up” with a statement advising folks about another tier of gear and their intention to have vertical progression in GW2. Instead, the horizontal progression “myth”, despite being the single most pervasive myth/assumption about Gw2, that one did not need clearing up until after the game was released and the initial burst of early sales had subsided. Funny that …

DeShadowWolf.6854:

Irrodesia.3907:

I’ll even go a step further on Legendary weapons. I don’t think precursors or Legendary weapons should be bought off the Trading Post, why? What is so epic about someone who can convert IRL money to gold or whatever and buy it out? Nothing. Which is why they are going to change how to obtain precursors in the future to make it more meaningful.

Using gw2spidy.com’s information, I took the LOWEST priced Legendary (sell price; Rodgort) and the data on gem transactions and ended up with a whopping $750 US dollar value. For the lowest priced sell order, mind you. If you wanted the Flameseeker Prophesies or something, that would be quite a bit more expensive. So i don’t think there is THAT much of a problem of trading money -> gold -> Legendary. It simply isn’t efficient enough for anyone to really do it, except for the really, really determined people who would just grind it out some other way, and doesn’t have a life.

I merely meant to use that as an example.

How I feel about Legendary gear is, if I bought Sunrise already made off the Trading Post, how is that by any means ‘Legendary’? Someone else did all the work for me and I simply had the amount of money the felt like charging for it. And chances are what someone is charging for it is more expensive than it would be to actually just work towards it myself.

Irrodesia.3907:

DeShadowWolf.6854:

~snip~

I merely meant to use that as an example.

How I feel about Legendary gear is, if I bought Sunrise already made off the Trading Post, how is that by any means ‘Legendary’? Someone else did all the work for me and I simply had the amount of money the felt like charging for it. And chances are what someone is charging for it is more expensive than it would be to actually just work towards it myself.

That isn’t an especially Legendary action, except for its Legendary proportion. If that was all Legendary as a gear tier was meant to entail, because it isn’t. Putting four items into the Mystic Toilet isn’t an especially Legendary action either, in the same way as the TP. You can do it with 2g exotics too. Its only Legendary aspect in this regard is the worth of what you are putting in and getting out.

So, we can say that the status Legendary is not meant to represent the means by which you got it, but what it is in and of itself. So then comes the question of what is a Legendary beyond the qualities other items have. Its statistical bonuses and abilities are the same as an Ascended weapon, so what makes it so much better? Cosmetics is the answer only answer we can really conclude to. So if the manner of acquiring is expensive but not worthy of Legendary status, it is no better statistically in combat than other weapons we can get and is thus not worthy of Legendary status in that manner, then what are we left with? How it looks and feels. So, by this conclusion we have come to, you can only base your opinion of whether it is Legendary or not to you on how it looks.

If you decide to earn the gold and use the TP to get the Legendary weapon, then that is your choice. If you decide to compile all the ingredients and combine them in the Mystic Forge, that is your choice as well.

maddoctor.2738:

MikaHR.1978:

GEAR MATTERS. STATS MATTER. Having 13% more damage atm MATTERS. And it will ONLY GROW EVERY FEW MONTHS FROM NOW ON.

Ranks were stupid enough already for www, now ascended…PvEers in champ trains…how exciting….

Why does gear matter if someone can do content in blue gear while someone in Ascended is struggling? 13% more damage doesn’t matter at all.

No serious gamer would make a statement like this. In a hardcore raiding guild (in another game of course) if you ignored an enchant that boosted your power 1% you would be looked at like you were from Mars by the guild leader and you would be told to get the enchant by raid time. Every experienced player knows that stats matter.

MikaHR.1978:

GEAR MATTERS. STATS MATTER. Having 13% more damage atm MATTERS. And it will ONLY GROW EVERY FEW MONTHS FROM NOW ON.

May I know how you get to 13% more damage? Because the increase in stats is way lower than that.

Raine.1394:

maddoctor.2738:

MikaHR.1978:

GEAR MATTERS. STATS MATTER. Having 13% more damage atm MATTERS. And it will ONLY GROW EVERY FEW MONTHS FROM NOW ON.

Ranks were stupid enough already for www, now ascended…PvEers in champ trains…how exciting….

Why does gear matter if someone can do content in blue gear while someone in Ascended is struggling? 13% more damage doesn’t matter at all.

No serious gamer would make a statement like this. In a hardcore raiding guild (in another game of course) if you ignored an enchant that boosted your power 1% you would be looked at like you were from Mars by the guild leader and you would be told to get the enchant by raid time. Every experienced player knows that stats matter.

Yes, because a hardcore raiding guild in another game is extremely relevant to gw2 content.

/sarcasm

Raine.1394:

maddoctor.2738:

MikaHR.1978:

GEAR MATTERS. STATS MATTER. Having 13% more damage atm MATTERS. And it will ONLY GROW EVERY FEW MONTHS FROM NOW ON.

Ranks were stupid enough already for www, now ascended…PvEers in champ trains…how exciting….

Why does gear matter if someone can do content in blue gear while someone in Ascended is struggling? 13% more damage doesn’t matter at all.

No serious gamer would make a statement like this. In a hardcore raiding guild (in another game of course) if you ignored an enchant that boosted your power 1% you would be looked at like you were from Mars by the guild leader and you would be told to get the enchant by raid time. Every experienced player knows that stats matter.

(+1)
I think it is a good argument. Especially because quite many people (who do not share the concerns regarding ascended gear) seem to think that the only reason anyone could possibly think that ascended gear is not a good idea, must be because they are either super casual or just lazy.

It might not matter in every single area of the game, but more damage is more damage. I have got out of a bad situation with 1 or 2 hp left more than once. Damage does make a difference in some situations.

EDIT: Because English > me, so are long sentences – hope it makes sense lol

DeShadowWolf.6854:

Raine.1394:

maddoctor.2738:

MikaHR.1978:

GEAR MATTERS. STATS MATTER. Having 13% more damage atm MATTERS. And it will ONLY GROW EVERY FEW MONTHS FROM NOW ON.

Ranks were stupid enough already for www, now ascended…PvEers in champ trains…how exciting….

Why does gear matter if someone can do content in blue gear while someone in Ascended is struggling? 13% more damage doesn’t matter at all.

No serious gamer would make a statement like this. In a hardcore raiding guild (in another game of course) if you ignored an enchant that boosted your power 1% you would be looked at like you were from Mars by the guild leader and you would be told to get the enchant by raid time. Every experienced player knows that stats matter.

Yes, because a hardcore raiding guild in another game is extremely relevant to gw2 content.

/sarcasm

Prime example of “how to miss the point”

Reesha.7901:

Raine.1394:

maddoctor.2738:

MikaHR.1978:

GEAR MATTERS. STATS MATTER. Having 13% more damage atm MATTERS. And it will ONLY GROW EVERY FEW MONTHS FROM NOW ON.

Ranks were stupid enough already for www, now ascended…PvEers in champ trains…how exciting….

Why does gear matter if someone can do content in blue gear while someone in Ascended is struggling? 13% more damage doesn’t matter at all.

No serious gamer would make a statement like this. In a hardcore raiding guild (in another game of course) if you ignored an enchant that boosted your power 1% you would be looked at like you were from Mars by the guild leader and you would be told to get the enchant by raid time. Every experienced player knows that stats matter.

(+1) I find it amusing, that many people, who does not share the concerns regarding ascended gear, seems to think that the only reason anyone could possibly think that ascended gear is not a good idea, must be because they are either super casual or just lazy.

It might not matter in every single area of the game, but more damage is more damage. I have got away plenty of times with 1 or 2 hp to know that it does make a difference in some situations.

Its not casuals, its not hardcores, its wannbe elitists that dont even know damage formula.

ASaturnus.4980:

MikaHR.1978:

GEAR MATTERS. STATS MATTER. Having 13% more damage atm MATTERS. And it will ONLY GROW EVERY FEW MONTHS FROM NOW ON.

May I know how you get to 13% more damage? Because the increase in stats is way lower than that.

13% is a projection based on a based on the damage of full ascended zerker gear on some build compared to the exotic zerger gear. The reason it’s so high is 1) weapon damage and 2) increases in critical damage are much more significant on a percentage basis.

I’m including my math so people smarter than me can identify and correct my errors.

Here’s exotics
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQFABGBQ9AAAAgkCAAokCAAA-jUxAYLgkXR0YVLYqSioavRR0qBA-w

This one has an average weapon damage of 1047.5, power 2118, precision 1814, and crit damage of 81%. This gives an average damage against an armor of 2000 of 1795.76
(1047.5*2118)(1+((1814-822)/2100)(.81+.5))/2000

Here’s ascended
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQFABGBQ9AAAAgkCAAokCAAA-jExAYfgkXR0Y11YKXioaA-w

This one has an average weapon damage of 1100, power 2189, precision 1850, and crit of 89%, this gives an average damage against an armor of 2000 of 2023.163
(1100*2189)(1+((1850-822)/2100)(.89+.5))/2000

2023.163 – 1795.76 = 227.403 (rounding here gimme a break)

227.4034 / 1795.76 = .126635 = 12.66%, rounded to 13%.

TooBz.3065:

ASaturnus.4980:

MikaHR.1978:

GEAR MATTERS. STATS MATTER. Having 13% more damage atm MATTERS. And it will ONLY GROW EVERY FEW MONTHS FROM NOW ON.

May I know how you get to 13% more damage? Because the increase in stats is way lower than that.

13% is a projection based on a based on the damage of full ascended zerker gear on some build compared to the exotic zerger gear. The reason it’s so high is 1) weapon damage and 2) increases in critical damage are much more significant on a percentage basis.

I’m including my math so people smarter than me can identify and correct my errors.

Here’s exotics
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQFABGBQ9AAAAgkCAAokCAAA-jUxAYLgkXR0YVLYqSioavRR0qBA-w

This one has an average weapon damage of 1047.5, power 2118, precision 1814, and crit damage of 81%. This gives an average damage against an armor of 2000 of 1795.76
(1047.5*2118)(1+((1814-822)/2100)(.81+.5))/2000

Here’s ascended
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQFABGBQ9AAAAgkCAAokCAAA-jExAYfgkXR0Y11YKXioaA-w

This one has an average weapon damage of 1100, power 2189, precision 1850, and crit of 89%, this gives an average damage against an armor of 2000 of 2023.163
(1100*2189)(1+((1850-822)/2100)(.89+.5))/2000

2023.163 – 1795.76 = 227.4034

227.4034 / 1795.76 = .126635 = 12.66%, rounded to 13%.

You are missing infusions on ascended items.

maddoctor.2738:

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

maddoctor.2738:

Part 1: Is Ascended Gear Required?

First of all, there are people doing naked runs of dungeons (absolutely no armor, only weapons), there are people soloing AC/CM/TA at their intended levels, without access to Ascended or even Exotic items. I’ve seen a level 24 Necromancer doing 30+ fotm, it was fun and “unique”. Overall, Ascended gear, and really ANY type of gear isn’t required at all, provided you have enough skill to compensate for the lack of it. I doubt Ascended gear can make much of a difference in large scale WvW battles or sieges either, there are siege weapons to be used, and I’d take a properly built (skill-wise) team mate using greens (for example a support Guardian with a Staff) over a bs Thief in a large scale battle.

As I’ve said in multiple posts, if you are doing a variety things (like, everything in the game) you can get an Ascended Weapon without ever doing the same thing twice.

ascended gear kittens up wvw. it’s not debatable. if it was pve only, i wouldn’t probably care as much—i would simply not get the gear.

such stupidity. no, you’ll have to do the same thing twice, three times, or 10 times, or 500 times. think about all the combinations of stats. dumb. (and amount of weapons)

No it doesn’t. Ascended doesn’t make as much of a difference in large scale WvW battles, sure it affects roamers and duelers a lot, but not large scale combat. Profession/build matters, gear does not.

It sure will affect large scale battles once full Ascended is in WvW.

Not your PUG zerg vs PUG zerg, but any Guild zerg that knows what they are doing.

That’s Anet’s intention too. It has to affect WvW, so people will grind for it.

DeShadowWolf.6854:

Raine.1394:

maddoctor.2738:

MikaHR.1978:

GEAR MATTERS. STATS MATTER. Having 13% more damage atm MATTERS. And it will ONLY GROW EVERY FEW MONTHS FROM NOW ON.

Ranks were stupid enough already for www, now ascended…PvEers in champ trains…how exciting….

Why does gear matter if someone can do content in blue gear while someone in Ascended is struggling? 13% more damage doesn’t matter at all.

No serious gamer would make a statement like this. In a hardcore raiding guild (in another game of course) if you ignored an enchant that boosted your power 1% you would be looked at like you were from Mars by the guild leader and you would be told to get the enchant by raid time. Every experienced player knows that stats matter.

Yes, because a hardcore raiding guild in another game is extremely relevant to gw2 content.

/sarcasm

No, simply because stats matter.

/facepalm

MikaHR.1978:

You are missing infusions on ascended items.

Yeah, I also left off sigils & runes and didn’t trait. I was just trying to show that you weren’t totally out of left field with the 13%.

Edit: people always act like these small increases don’t matter, but they really add up.

Edit2: adding in centaur runes and might infusions where possible, the total is actual > 13%

IndigoSundown.5419:

He won’t comment. Any attempt to address the accusations that they’ve changed their philosophy is irrelevant to what they’re trying to attain — whatever it is. The best we can expect is dribbles of PR. The recent Pax interview was a masterful piece of PR. He almost had me with the statement that went something like, “We intended exotic to be a lot harder to get.” Then I reread the Eurogamer interview from 2011. The two just don’t mesh.

That quote (if he said that), and the quote “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game.” simply can’t coexist. One or the other can be true, which means one or the other is a lie. Doing a philosophical 180 when it comes to game design is what it is (not cool, but understandable). Not being genuine, upfront, and honest about it is much worse, in my opinion.

DeShadowWolf.6854:

Raine.1394:

maddoctor.2738:

MikaHR.1978:

GEAR MATTERS. STATS MATTER. Having 13% more damage atm MATTERS. And it will ONLY GROW EVERY FEW MONTHS FROM NOW ON.

Ranks were stupid enough already for www, now ascended…PvEers in champ trains…how exciting….

Why does gear matter if someone can do content in blue gear while someone in Ascended is struggling? 13% more damage doesn’t matter at all.

No serious gamer would make a statement like this. In a hardcore raiding guild (in another game of course) if you ignored an enchant that boosted your power 1% you would be looked at like you were from Mars by the guild leader and you would be told to get the enchant by raid time. Every experienced player knows that stats matter.

Yes, because a hardcore raiding guild in another game is extremely relevant to gw2 content.

/sarcasm

I’d like if you’d refrain from instigating something with sarcasm, it’d be much appreciated. Thanks :).

Raine was simply forming an example to make his and/or her point and stayed on topic, just because his and/or her example didn’t pull from GW2 alone does not make it irrelevant. If you did not understand his and/or her point you could of simply inquired about it.

.5% damage increase to 13% damage increase or higher, the point is even if the increase is small it is indeed an increase. If you can do just a small amount more damage, even if it only effects a fight by killing something three seconds faster, you know that it aids in some way shape or form.

Thus which led to the example and the point that it makes, no matter how small an improvement, it is an improvement. So saying that it doesn’t matter is void.

TooBz.3065:

MikaHR.1978:

You are missing infusions on ascended items.

Yeah, I also left off sigils & runes and didn’t trait. I was just trying to show that you weren’t totally out of left field with the 13%.

Edit: people always act like these small increases don’t matter, but they really add up.

Edit2: adding in centaur runes and might infusions where possible, the total is actual > 13%

Now add 6 pieces of armor and 6 more infusions (total of 14) and keep in mind infusions will soon get an upgrade, +11 infusions were datamined already iirc, and that infusions are only at “fine” (blue) quality so very long way to ascended on those, ascended runes and sigils. and you can easily see how it will go through the roof very soon.

AScended weapons and armor …. woopie doo. Just wait until parties for dungeons start making each other ping for ascended full zerker.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

AScended weapons and armor …. woopie doo. Just wait until parties for dungeons start making each other ping for ascended full zerker.

This is going to be fun yes. Especially for new players joining.
All in all I am more worried about wvw though.

Its a good think they are adding new set of gears that dont take 1day to get,BIS stuff should be hard to get and it only a bit better than exotic gear anyway you gonna be enable to do all the stuff just like before.

Killface.1896:

Its a good think they are adding new set of gears that dont take 1day to get,BIS stuff should be hard to get and it only a bit better than exotic gear anyway you gonna be enable to do all the stuff just like before.

Why? I am willing to bet you can’t actually explain a reason why BiS should be hard to get versus cosmetic being hard to get, that doesn’t ultimately boil down to “I don’t understand horizontal progression”.

edit: It suddenly occurred to me that your post might be sarcasm, in case it is….don’t do that it doesn’t work on the forums!

quaniesan.8497:

Grinding sucks, I get that part. Now, all this frustration is because people are so eager and want to obtain the ascended gear as early as possible. We have been doing just fine with exotics and thus there’s no reason why we couldn’t fight anymore with exotics gear just because there’s ascended weapons out there.

We don’t want ascended nor power creep, we want easy max stats gear so we can explore the game thrhough our skill instead through grinded/farmed stats.

Some of us have played several hundred of hours at this game, have done every dungeon, have beaten almost every hard content… and we are punished with grind and power creep.

How can I enjoy WvW if there’s a zerg train looting champions that will kill me easily in two weeks because they are more powerful than me? Where are skills rewarded, when an unskilled farmer can beat you because of his gear? Is it fair?

The answer: not for me, at least. That’s the reason I’ll quit this game (again, as I did at November although finally returned in January with laurels. But not this time) when I finishes all SAB challenges.

i have to fully agree.

Great post OP… Its a shame none of it will sink into the people and developers that need to read this stuff etc..

I personally believe the only way these people will get this stuff across is if many move on.
Honestly is this grindy treadmill game really worth the frustration and tedium, i have to say no… find something fun people is all i ask..

TooBz.3065:

ASaturnus.4980:

MikaHR.1978:

GEAR MATTERS. STATS MATTER. Having 13% more damage atm MATTERS. And it will ONLY GROW EVERY FEW MONTHS FROM NOW ON.

May I know how you get to 13% more damage? Because the increase in stats is way lower than that.

13% is a projection based on a based on the damage of full ascended zerker gear on some build compared to the exotic zerger gear. The reason it’s so high is 1) weapon damage and 2) increases in critical damage are much more significant on a percentage basis.

I’m including my math so people smarter than me can identify and correct my errors.

Here’s exotics
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQFABGBQ9AAAAgkCAAokCAAA-jUxAYLgkXR0YVLYqSioavRR0qBA-w

This one has an average weapon damage of 1047.5, power 2118, precision 1814, and crit damage of 81%. This gives an average damage against an armor of 2000 of 1795.76
(1047.5*2118)(1+((1814-822)/2100)(.81+.5))/2000

Here’s ascended
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQFABGBQ9AAAAgkCAAokCAAA-jExAYfgkXR0Y11YKXioaA-w

This one has an average weapon damage of 1100, power 2189, precision 1850, and crit of 89%, this gives an average damage against an armor of 2000 of 2023.163
(1100*2189)(1+((1850-822)/2100)(.89+.5))/2000

2023.163 – 1795.76 = 227.403 (rounding here gimme a break)

227.4034 / 1795.76 = .126635 = 12.66%, rounded to 13%.

Now do all the same calculations using a condition build instead of a Berserker and let’s see the amazing difference in damage.

so….you want the strongest gear possible and you want it to be easy to get.

sounds like the typical complainer on these forums

Nobody gives a crap about condition damage in PVE.

jayb.1329:

so….you want the strongest gear possible and you want it to be easy to get.

sounds like the typical complainer on these forums

Actually sounds like what Anet said they wanted. Kind of why some people bought the game in the first place.

Cassius.4831:

quaniesan.8497:

Grinding sucks, I get that part. Now, all this frustration is because people are so eager and want to obtain the ascended gear as early as possible. We have been doing just fine with exotics and thus there’s no reason why we couldn’t fight anymore with exotics gear just because there’s ascended weapons out there.

We don’t want ascended nor power creep, we want easy max stats gear so we can explore the game thrhough our skill instead through grinded/farmed stats.

Some of us have played several hundred of hours at this game, have done every dungeon, have beaten almost every hard content… and we are punished with grind and power creep.

How can I enjoy WvW if there’s a zerg train looting champions that will kill me easily in two weeks because they are more powerful than me? Where are skills rewarded, when an unskilled farmer can beat you because of his gear? Is it fair?

The answer: not for me, at least. That’s the reason I’ll quit this game (again, as I did at November although finally returned in January with laurels. But not this time) when I finishes all SAB challenges.

So you put several hundred hours into the game, beat every dungeon and most of the hard content……you sound skilled, so skilled in fact that you should be able to get ascended gear just like all the characters in the zerg train that you’re worried about.

please do quit the game.

everybody saying they’re going to quit…please just quit so nobody ever has to read your “i quit such and such months ago now i’ll quit again” posts or your “i’ll never spend another cent on this game” posts

Ashen.2907:

jayb.1329:

so….you want the strongest gear possible and you want it to be easy to get.

sounds like the typical complainer on these forums

Actually sounds like what Anet said they wanted. Kind of why some people bought the game in the first place.

yea well as according to them exotics ended up being easier to get than they anticipated.

so sounds like it’s not what they wanted

jayb.1329:

Ashen.2907:

jayb.1329:

so….you want the strongest gear possible and you want it to be easy to get.

sounds like the typical complainer on these forums

Actually sounds like what Anet said they wanted. Kind of why some people bought the game in the first place.

yea well as according to them exotics ended up being easier to get than they anticipated.

so sounds like it’s not what they wanted

They claimed that they wanted characters to have accumulated best stat gear by level 80. Now they claim that people getting best stat gear that soon was faster than intended.

Three possibilities:

1) The first statement was false, in which case they mislead players into buying the game on false pretenses.

2) The second one is false in which case they are outright lying now.

3) Both could be false in which case they both misled people into buying the game on false pretenses and are lying now.

If they had merely said, “although we originally intended for players to have best stat gear by level 80 we have since come to the realization that this will not work for the game or our business model,” perception of the matter might very well be different. At that point it would be a matter of changing expectations and adapting to the realities of a post launch game.

I can accept and forgive, even if I do not like it, a decision to back away from an earlier statement in order to save the game, or because the parent company mandates it, or something of the sort. What I cannot forgive or respect is a decision to go back on one’s word and then try to claim that the original statement never existed. Anet is right now claiming that they never intended what they previously stated they did intend.

Don’t urinate on my head and tell me its raining.

jayb.1329:

So you put several hundred hours into the game, beat every dungeon and most of the hard content……you sound skilled, so skilled in fact that you should be able to get ascended gear just like all the characters in the zerg train that you’re worried about.

There is no skill required to get ascended gear, merely grind and a task that is, for some unknown percentage of the player base, not playing the game.

jayb.1329:

please do quit the game.

everybody saying they’re going to quit…please just quit so nobody ever has to read your “i quit such and such months ago now i’ll quit again” posts or your “i’ll never spend another cent on this game” posts

No one has to read the, “I quit,” posts now, and yet you choose to do so.

jayb.1329:

so….you want the strongest gear possible and you want it to be easy to get.

sounds like the typical complainer on these forums

Read my signature.

And yes, i dont play any more and ascended tier is the reason.

And no, not because i cant get them, i have crapload of mats/gold.