Guild Wars 2

Surprised there isn’t a thread about this yet, seems to happen after quarterly data is released.

GW2 up 37.1% in income from 3rd quarter to 4th. Officially “Guild Wars 2 was strong on the back of year-end sales promotions.”

Year to year GW2 is down 25.2%. Understandable since 3rd quarter 2013 was HUGE. Officially “Guild Wars 2 became the 2nd biggest revenues source along with well settled in-game item sales model.”

Also “Lineage grew significantly in Korea where as Guild Wars 2 remained solid in US and EU.”

Estimated sales for 2013 is $112.6 million USD. 16.3% of NCSOFT’s income for that year, less that 1/2 of what Lineage brought in.

It seems to be doing remarkably well. It won’t beat Lineage, but that’s understandable. For some reason, the Korean market has a real kitten for that game.

Is that Lineage 1 they’re talking about? Or Lineage 1 + 2’s combined earnings?

Just Lineage 1, income up 40% for the year. Lineage 2 is fading, lowest annual income of the games they broke out.

Maybe the new Lineage that’s being worked on will allow character transfers from the original game?

I’m glad GW2 is doing well. Just love the game.

1 1/2 later and the game is still doing great, that’s good to hear.

Yay! Though doubtful, maybe this will put some of the ‘this game is dead/dying’ rhetoric to rest.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Yay! Though doubtful, maybe this will put some of the ‘this game is dead/dying’ rhetoric to rest.

Not really. It was doing well but it was mentioned that sales are down. The question is does that change or will sales keep going down. I personally think sales will continue to soften for a while if Anet continues to ignore many of GW2 major issues. I want GW2 to do well but I also think it is necessary to motivate Anet/NCSoft, by declining revenue, to fix their mistakes. Gw2 will profit more in the future if it is more generous today. They seem not to understand this though.

Cinnamon Goddess.3869:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Yay! Though doubtful, maybe this will put some of the ‘this game is dead/dying’ rhetoric to rest.

Not really. It was doing well but it was mentioned that sales are down. The question is does that change or will sales keep going down. I personally think sales will continue to soften for a while if Anet continues to ignore many of GW2 major issues. I want GW2 to do well but I also think it is necessary to motivate Anet/NCSoft, by declining revenue, to fix their mistakes. Gw2 will profit more in the future if it is more generous today. They seem not to understand this though.

Well ofcause they are going down, there are only so many people that buy the box. Those sales will only go up again if they release a boxed addon. But they are doing fine without those boxed sales, it seems.

As I said…doubtful.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Yay! Though doubtful, maybe this will put some of the ‘this game is dead/dying’ rhetoric to rest.

A growth in gem store sales really proves nothing.

Q3 2012 the game was still new and people had no reason to buy gems. There were still objectives to work towards in the game.

Q3 2013 the only new stuff in game was all on the gem store. The game had become a grind for many players that could be avoided by purchasing gems for gold.

There was going to be an obvious increase in sales. The more telling number will be Q2 2013 vs Q2 2014 as that was the time living story was first introduced and when a large chunk of players felt the game took a turn towards the worse.

Hobbitz.5831:

Q3 2013 the only new stuff in game was all on the gem store. The game had become a grind for many players that could be avoided by purchasing gems for gold.

And yet people value those items so high that they pay gems for them. You are trying to make it sound like they are forced to buy those items with gems, they can whenever they want quit the game, not spend any money on gems or like you said grind for it.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

As I said…doubtful.

Boxed sales go down for any game after launch, always. You’re REALLY stretching your neck here to say this game is dying. They made more than their projected profits solely from cash shop sales, not including boxed sales which did increase over the winter period from their drop in Q3. You can’t say, “This game is dying” solely based on box sales. Go look at WoW’s box sales compared to launch and over time and tell me again how GW2 is dying, please.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

As I said…doubtful.

People will see what they want to see. This is good and bad, just incredibly depressing when it is fixated on things that are not real.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

As I said…doubtful.

Boxed sales go down for any game after launch, always. You’re REALLY stretching your neck here to say this game is dying. They made more than their projected profits solely from cash shop sales, not including boxed sales which did increase over the winter period from their drop in Q3. You can’t say, “This game is dying” solely based on box sales. Go look at WoW’s box sales compared to launch and over time and tell me again how GW2 is dying, please.

You jumped to a conclusion, I suggest you read his previous post to see why he wrote this.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

As I said…doubtful.

Boxed sales go down for any game after launch, always. You’re REALLY stretching your neck here to say this game is dying. They made more than their projected profits solely from cash shop sales, not including boxed sales which did increase over the winter period from their drop in Q3. You can’t say, “This game is dying” solely based on box sales. Go look at WoW’s box sales compared to launch and over time and tell me again how GW2 is dying, please.

Huh? What? Reading is FUNdamental. =)

Its good news and I am happy GW2 continues to do well.

Shows that regular updates (ie…Living Story works well with micro transaction ie…shop model)

Meglobob.8620:

Its good news and I am happy GW2 continues to do well.

Shows that regular updates (ie…Living Story works well with micro transaction ie…shop model)

Um No it doesn’t. It shows that people want something similar to GW2 or they want what was originally promised but it only takes another game to change all that. People wanted an upgrade from past games but GW2 has many flaws that need to be fixed in order to solidify and long term loyalty.

So when the new lineage eternal comes out(have not heard from it in a year) these poor koreans will have to stop working in order to play all these games :/

Can someone explain me why they like Lineage 1 more than 2?

kokiman.2364:

Can someone explain me why they like Lineage 1 more than 2?

No idea other than inertia. But it does have huge WvW style battles. Their equivalent of guilds are large, very organized and each with their own castle and must defend their territory from others. Which makes it sound a touch like Eve’s corporations.

Lineage 2 is a prequel (Everquest 3D visual style vs Diablo II style of Lineage) and was doing well, out earning Lineage by 30% in 2008. In 4th quarter 2009 Lineage introduced a cash shop (as well as special events etc.). Since then Lineage 2 has been fading quickly with income down 60% since 2008 while Lineage is up 255%, making L2’s income 1/5th of Lineage’s.

Cinnamon Goddess.3869:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Yay! Though doubtful, maybe this will put some of the ‘this game is dead/dying’ rhetoric to rest.

Not really. It was doing well but it was mentioned that sales are down. The question is does that change or will sales keep going down.

They will definitely continue to go down. That is the natural evolution of game sales. It’s extremely hard to beat your first year because in that year you had the purchases of your initial playerbase.

The Gem Store is not representative of how well the game is doing – it is only representative of how much people are willing to spend on cosmetic items that are released in the game (against how much money the players have). Nothing more, nothing less. Example: Imagine for a second that, for some strange circumstance, every player in GW2 simultaneously went broke in real life – there would be no revenue from the Gem Store even though the vast majority of those gamers would continue to play the game. Additionally, imagine that ANet removed all items from the store and the only item you could buy would be [Spikes] — the Gem Store would do poorly even if there were vast amounts of players in the game.

If GW2 was subscription-based sales would be a better metric of how the game is doing (especially in terms of subscription cancellations). For a once-off payment model the only way to measure how well the game is doing is through player engagement (how many hours players spend on the game in total).

The only thing that these figures mean is that ANet is doing acceptably financially. Nothing more, nothing less. Comparing the two isn’t even an error of “correlation does not imply causation” because there is no correlation to begin with. This is more of a case of “the wood chuck chucking wood does not prove that the sun is yellow.”

Any news how Gw2 is being received in China?

As an NCSoft property, those profits need to be considerably higher to avoid shuttering and closure.

I hope the upcoming Asian release picks up the slack.

DeathMetal.8264:

Any news how Gw2 is being received in China?

As far as I know, still in beta but there is good hype (hear-say from one of Wooden Potatoe’s recent videos).

zamalek.2154:

DeathMetal.8264:

Any news how Gw2 is being received in China?

As far as I know, still in beta but there is good hype (hear-say from one of Wooden Potatoe’s recent videos).

off topic: Ty, I’ll check WP, haven’t seen any of his recent videos

I will chime in here with one word: competition

For 1.5 years GW2 has had little or no competition from new releases.
This will change in April and beyond.

Q2 2013 vs Q2 2014 will be very interesting. as will the year-on-year figures at the end of 2014.

And yes, cash shop sales figures has zero correlation with player numbers, time spent in-game. Cash shop sales might be booming, but my server population certainly isn’t …

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

As I said…doubtful.

Yes, highly doubtful.

As with all games, there will always be those that continuously cry ‘its dying. its dying. its dead. its dead.’ whether or not it’s actually true. Unfortunately its not really possible to shut them up. Not in any legal and ethical way, anyway.

Still, I am glad to see that sales (gemstore or otherwise. Sales are sales, period) are stabilizing. It promotes a positive outlook and shows that the game is holding its own, no matter what the gloom and doom heralds crow.

kokiman.2364:

Can someone explain me why they like Lineage 1 more than 2?

Same reasons why people prefer Diablo II over Diablo III.

Hobbitz.5831:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Yay! Though doubtful, maybe this will put some of the ‘this game is dead/dying’ rhetoric to rest.

A growth in gem store sales really proves nothing.

Q3 2012 the game was still new and people had no reason to buy gems. There were still objectives to work towards in the game.

Q3 2013 the only new stuff in game was all on the gem store. The game had become a grind for many players that could be avoided by purchasing gems for gold.

There was going to be an obvious increase in sales. The more telling number will be Q2 2013 vs Q2 2014 as that was the time living story was first introduced and when a large chunk of players felt the game took a turn towards the worse.

So are we going to completely ignore gem sales then? That is ridiculous. No reasonable financial analyst would discount it.

Gem store sales should be factored in financial analysis since it will be a driving revenue source for GW2 until the game is done. Less emphasis will be placed on boxed sales since a decline in box sales is expected in the gaming industry due to markdowns and decline in demand.

I disagree with your assessment on TY vs LY being affected by in-game, non-gem store factors.

Why are sales up? It’s because Anet has started to release more and more novelty/convenience items in greater frequency that were actually useful to the playerbase.

Is it true that sales going up were to be expected? I would certainly say so. If Anet had declining gem store sales, I would have been very concerned.

But it’s not a time for negativity and saying, “what if”. That type of mindset doesn’t work in financial analysis since there are several things you could second guess.

Anet should be happy that 2013 sales are up over 2012 and dont’ need to be bothered about 2014 in terms (oh man I hope 2014 over 2013 is going to be +). I’m sure their gem store division already has projected on what they can do for the coming year so that they will beat expectations. All rational businesses do this. Every profitable business will have plans to grow revenue, not lessen it or settle for status quo.

It isn’t surprising that sales are up. The game is pretty much full on P2W now. If you don’t pay you will quickly fall behind other players.

Also the game still has had no competition to draw players away. Whatever report follows a few months after ESO and Wildstar release will be the one to watch for the real health of the game.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It isn’t surprising that sales are up. The game is pretty much full on P2W now. If you don’t pay you will quickly fall behind other players.

Also the game still has had no competition to draw players away. Whatever report follows a few months after ESO and Wildstar release will be the one to watch for the real health of the game.

Full on pay to win huh? You aint played a real pay to win game I guess.

Lévis.5489:

kokiman.2364:

Can someone explain me why they like Lineage 1 more than 2?

Same reasons why people prefer Diablo II over Diablo III.

and would not wonder when pvp people soon go back GW1 cause GW2 just a joke^^

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It isn’t surprising that sales are up. The game is pretty much full on P2W now. If you don’t pay you will quickly fall behind other players.

Also the game still has had no competition to draw players away. Whatever report follows a few months after ESO and Wildstar release will be the one to watch for the real health of the game.

Pay to win what? So you don’t have to buy resource collectors? Do you know what P2W means?

ESO will be the flop of the year (just read every single independant review or experience the stress test betas yourself, it’s pretty bad, not an Elder scrolls game and not a real MMO experience), and Wildstar only caters to a small playerbase interested in PvP who aren’t interested in graphics. Both these games will get a huge migration of those MMO hoppers who will leave in 2-6 months, same as what happened to GW2.

GW2 is doing far better than what can be expected in a shrinking market.

Vol.7601:

Why are sales up? It’s because Anet has started to release more and more novelty/convenience items in greater frequency that were actually useful to the playerbase.

I think you’re forgetting about the Great MMO Migration promotion and the free weekends. From what I saw in the Players Helping Players forums there was an influx of new players, who drive sales both through buying the game and buying the bread and butter items (bank slots) that the existing character base has already purchased.

The mining picks and salvage-o-matic type items did make a difference and I think that ANet should continue to push on both the gem store and box sales fronts. What they need to do is put in a skin wardrobe and set aside some time to count the money

Q4 = Christmas

Anything with a heartbeat does well in the US in Q4. That is good news for GW2 because it means it still has a heartbeat. The real test will be the Q1 numbers, however, which will indicate whether or not GW2 revenues continue to slide towards Aion numbers.

Tasty Pudding.3764:

Q4 = Christmas

Anything with a heartbeat does well in the US in Q4. That is good news for GW2 because it means it still has a heartbeat. The real test will be the Q1 numbers, however, which will indicate whether or not GW2 revenues continue to slide towards Aion numbers.

guess you dont played the game than

gw2 gets money only from gemshop and arenanet did long break in december so there was not much in gemshop (atleast nothing important)

january they started to go enrage with gemsales^^ and i guess q1 2014 will be good

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

As I said…doubtful.

Yes, highly doubtful.

As with all games, there will always be those that continuously cry ‘its dying. its dying. its dead. its dead.’ whether or not it’s actually true. Unfortunately its not really possible to shut them up. Not in any legal and ethical way, anyway.

Still, I am glad to see that sales (gemstore or otherwise. Sales are sales, period) are stabilizing. It promotes a positive outlook and shows that the game is holding its own, no matter what the gloom and doom heralds crow.

I remember a post by a guy crying that the game had been dead for “over a year”. When it had been out 10 months.

Good for them, I’m glad the gem store is making them money. Now that that they figured out how to create QnD cash store content every 2 weeks can they figure out how to create some real content and fix some bugs.

bluestocking.6148:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

As I said…doubtful.

Yes, highly doubtful.

As with all games, there will always be those that continuously cry ‘its dying. its dying. its dead. its dead.’ whether or not it’s actually true. Unfortunately its not really possible to shut them up. Not in any legal and ethical way, anyway.

Still, I am glad to see that sales (gemstore or otherwise. Sales are sales, period) are stabilizing. It promotes a positive outlook and shows that the game is holding its own, no matter what the gloom and doom heralds crow.

I remember a post by a guy crying that the game had been dead for “over a year”. When it had been out 10 months.

chuckle I know what you speak of. I think I actually commented on that to yell at the guy. XD Now I know I’ve been around on here for far too long….

Reverence.6915:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It isn’t surprising that sales are up. The game is pretty much full on P2W now. If you don’t pay you will quickly fall behind other players.

Also the game still has had no competition to draw players away. Whatever report follows a few months after ESO and Wildstar release will be the one to watch for the real health of the game.

Pay to win what? So you don’t have to buy resource collectors? Do you know what P2W means?

ESO will be the flop of the year (just read every single independant review or experience the stress test betas yourself, it’s pretty bad, not an Elder scrolls game and not a real MMO experience), and Wildstar only caters to a small playerbase interested in PvP who aren’t interested in graphics. Both these games will get a huge migration of those MMO hoppers who will leave in 2-6 months, same as what happened to GW2.

GW2 is doing far better than what can be expected in a shrinking market.

I would suggest doing more research on wildstar. PvP is only a small part of that game.

As to GW2, how is it not P2W? Please point out how I can get good looking new armors in the last year that doesn’t involve the gem store? Or perhaps tell me how I can obtain watchwork sprockets next week outside of the vastly superior gem store only mining pick? Or maybe tell me how I can reasonably participate in super adventure box hard mode without the gem store only coin? Or maybe the gem store only resource packs for ascended jewelcrafting… I could go on and on, but that isn’t the purpose of this thread. I’m certainly not alone, many people see GW2 as a P2W game now, but that is just the way the market is heading, people have more money than time.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Reverence.6915:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It isn’t surprising that sales are up. The game is pretty much full on P2W now. If you don’t pay you will quickly fall behind other players.

Also the game still has had no competition to draw players away. Whatever report follows a few months after ESO and Wildstar release will be the one to watch for the real health of the game.

Pay to win what? So you don’t have to buy resource collectors? Do you know what P2W means?

ESO will be the flop of the year (just read every single independant review or experience the stress test betas yourself, it’s pretty bad, not an Elder scrolls game and not a real MMO experience), and Wildstar only caters to a small playerbase interested in PvP who aren’t interested in graphics. Both these games will get a huge migration of those MMO hoppers who will leave in 2-6 months, same as what happened to GW2.

GW2 is doing far better than what can be expected in a shrinking market.

I would suggest doing more research on wildstar. PvP is only a small part of that game.

As to GW2, how is it not P2W? Please point out how I can get good looking new armors in the last year that doesn’t involve the gem store? Or perhaps tell me how I can obtain watchwork sprockets next week outside of the vastly superior gem store only mining pick? Or maybe tell me how I can reasonably participate in super adventure box hard mode without the gem store only coin? Or maybe the gem store only resource packs for ascended jewelcrafting… I could go on and on, but that isn’t the purpose of this thread. I’m certainly not alone, many people see GW2 as a P2W game now, but that is just the way the market is heading, people have more money than time.

PvP of Wildstar is actually the main attraction of the game. The PvE is so shallow it’s not even worth mentioning. Just a boring WoW-clone grindfest.

Guild Wars 2’s gem store sells convenience and vanity items. That’s not “Pay to Win”. You are not paying for power. You are not paying for extra levels. You are not paying for exclusive and more powerful weapons and armor. You are not paying for more exclusive content that can’t be obtained through in-game questing. In short, you’re not paying to be superior to anyone else in-game. That makes it not P2W.

Behellagh.1468:

Estimated sales for 2013 is $112.6 million USD.

Fun with numbers.

• This figure would equate to an average of $9.38m per month.
• Which would be the equivalent of 625,333 $15 subs.
• Since not everyone spends cash, this number in no way represents the population.
• 625,000 subs certainly represents respectable numbers, especially if you throw out the outliers.

• If those who do spend cash spent an average of $50/month, this number would represent an average of 187,600 players spending $50 per month.
• If those who spend cash spent an average of $1000/month, less than 10K players would be supporting the game.

• Finally, the number shows some people don’t think the game is dead.

All games share the same relative waxing and waning for the first year or two. In the beginning, they do well, as new players buy the game, and then they leave, and then new players come in, and then they leave, etc.

As others have said, the real test will be in the next year, as more and more new titles are released. The continued growth of the GW2 franchise will depend largely on what the developers do next and not what they have already done. In order to compete with the new titles, they are going to have to keep a step or two ahead.

I, for one, hope they do.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Reverence.6915:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It isn’t surprising that sales are up. The game is pretty much full on P2W now. If you don’t pay you will quickly fall behind other players.

Also the game still has had no competition to draw players away. Whatever report follows a few months after ESO and Wildstar release will be the one to watch for the real health of the game.

Pay to win what? So you don’t have to buy resource collectors? Do you know what P2W means?

ESO will be the flop of the year (just read every single independant review or experience the stress test betas yourself, it’s pretty bad, not an Elder scrolls game and not a real MMO experience), and Wildstar only caters to a small playerbase interested in PvP who aren’t interested in graphics. Both these games will get a huge migration of those MMO hoppers who will leave in 2-6 months, same as what happened to GW2.

GW2 is doing far better than what can be expected in a shrinking market.

I would suggest doing more research on wildstar. PvP is only a small part of that game.

As to GW2, how is it not P2W? Please point out how I can get good looking new armors in the last year that doesn’t involve the gem store? Or perhaps tell me how I can obtain watchwork sprockets next week outside of the vastly superior gem store only mining pick? Or maybe tell me how I can reasonably participate in super adventure box hard mode without the gem store only coin? Or maybe the gem store only resource packs for ascended jewelcrafting… I could go on and on, but that isn’t the purpose of this thread. I’m certainly not alone, many people see GW2 as a P2W game now, but that is just the way the market is heading, people have more money than time.

GW2 takes money to operate. Since there is no sub they have to find a way to make money.

The stuff you listed that require real life money (please go on by the way, i’m curious) barely counts as things you need to “win”.

I spend roughly 10 dollars/month for gems to get stuff I want, but before I started buying gems I had no problem keeping up. People complaining about this game being P2W haven’t played actual P2W games or are just extremely entitled to the point where they feel they have a right to EVERYTHING for free.

Fits with what many people say. The way Anet (or Ncsoft) is doing stuff now is great to squeeze out money in the short run but bad for the long run.

The rise in price will be because of people buying gems. This because they don’t want to miss temporary available items or don’t want to grind and so on.

However, at some point people will lose interest in it or get burned out by doing all the temporary stuff.. once they missed an item there is no need for a full collection anymore and buying items will also take away the fun of the game.

So then the gem sales will start to go down and people will start to leave.

Now imagine if they focused on expansions and so already had released a real expansions by now. Then they would have had a again some big sale numbers (maybe little less then the gem-sales, maybe not) but the game had to be less grindy to get people to buy gems, there would be no need for temporary stuff to get people to buy stuff, content would be of higher quality and so expansions in the future would likely also have high sales.

It will be really interesting what GW2 will do with the March patch and what the other MMO’s will do. GW2 did not really have any big other MMO to battle against but now a few big names will be released still I think EQN will be the biggest competitor for GW2 and thats still a year out.

Rules of the GW2 Doom & Gloom Club
1. The game is failing.
2. If the game is succeeding, see 1.

Devata.6589:

Fits with what many people say. The way Anet (or Ncsoft) is doing stuff now is great to squeeze out money in the short run but bad for the long run.

The rise in price will be because of people buying gems. This because they don’t want to miss temporary available items or don’t want to grind and so on.

However, at some point people will lose interest in it or get burned out by doing all the temporary stuff.. once they missed an item there is no need for a full collection anymore and buying items will also take away the fun of the game.

So then the gem sales will start to go down and people will start to leave.

Now imagine if they focused on expansions and so already had released a real expansions by now. Then they would have had a again some big sale numbers (maybe little less then the gem-sales, maybe not) but the game had to be less grindy to get people to buy gems, there would be no need for temporary stuff to get people to buy stuff, content would be of higher quality and so expansions in the future would likely also have high sales.

It will be really interesting what GW2 will do with the March patch and what the other MMO’s will do. GW2 did not really have any big other MMO to battle against but now a few big names will be released still I think EQN will be the biggest competitor for GW2 and thats still a year out.

I have to ask because I’m curious and don’t know when to shut up. Do you actually still play this game, and if so, why? Also, do you actually buy gems from the gem shop, and if so, why?

When I started reading this topic, my very first thought was that it was just a matter of time before you posted the same thing you post in every topic that might possible be even remotely linked to the cash shop. Thank you for not disappointing me.

I think anyone that reads the boards even semi-regularly understands your disdain for the cash shop and your overwhelming preference for expansions. We get it. We really do.

Having said that, kudos to NCSoft for making money and keeping me entertained. To celebrate, I might just have to go and buy… you guessed it… GEMS!

Are you surprised? Lineage is the best MMO game ever produced[PERIOD]