Guild Wars 2

It’s not horrible, but it’s a bit of a downer that we feel the need to skip through the first 20 levels. It’s been awhile now since the New Player Experience [NPE] started, and I feel even worse about it. It’s boring af for 99 percent of us [number pulled out of kitten , don’t take it seriously. just a guesstimate!]
What happened to the weapon skill unlocking as you play? I really enjoyed that style. I thought originality was a large part of GW2. It’s got to be still in code somewhere. Please add it back in the options and leave the NPE as the default. As simple as that.

I get that the ‘studies’ show that NPE is better for beginners, but why must the entire game need to be changed for someone that can’t press control/mouse 2 for 5 levels? Please respect the intelligence of everyone else. NES/SNES players would be disappointed in this hand-holding, and most of us that play are adults of that era. If not, does the director of Anet want the game to be as alt friendly as WoW aka not at all? Thoughts?

Wont happen, too much effort for them to build in a option to turn it off. I also despise the NPE, you are basically dumbing down the areas for more advanced players.

They could leave the later level up bonuses if needed, but if they could just bring back the old way of obtaining weapon skills, I would be so happy!
I honestly don’t think it would be that difficult.

It’s to the point where I only make a new character if I have one of those “Straight to level 20” scrolls.

Wtg Anet. You enacted a policy nobody wanted at the time, and that people still don’t want. Many people I have spoken to as well as myself had absolutely zero problems when we first started out. At least not compared to other MMO’s. Yet now new players have their intelligence insulted, and old players have to sit and plod through an unfun, grindy, horrible gameplay experience. Way to kittening go.

Just leveled my 7th character to 80 today. 3 of my characters were lower level after the NPE patch and it definitely wasn’t fun until I hit later levels. Going to collect enough tomes from pvp before I make my 8th character so I can skip NPE.

Unfortunately unlocking traits will still be a pain (or expensive).

what is npe?………….

The trait changes were significantly worse, as was the comparative negative reaction to the two systems. The trait thread has 3014 replies, the NPE thread 760. Despite being several months older, the trait thread is rarely off page 1, where the NPE thread is on page 8, and falling.

Honestly, I started a new character to try out the NPE, it’s currently up around level 45-ish (Engineer.)

Amazingly the npe isn’t nearly as bad as people are saying. Yeah, it sucks that you have to unlock your other weapons skills by hitting certain levels, but at the same time it makes me appreciate getting them a little more.

The trait unlocking never really bothered me, other then the way they had some traits that you could theoretically use from level 36?-ish, be rewards for completing a level 70~ zone or whatever.

Honestly the biggest thing that annoys me about the npe patch was them removing ranger pets from low level areas, removing that underwater heart in Metrica, etc.

I just don’t see why veterans are angry by this change…

In the first place it isn’t targeted towards you. It’s like pve players getting angry about spvp/wvw mode changes.

Secondly, and seriously more important, the changes make it so a player is more familiar and has more experience with how each specific skill/utility/trait work. It’s not being dumbed down, it’s being explained in better detail.

The real issue is the fact that the cap is 80 levels in a game that isn’t about finding gears to further progress. That is waaay too high a level for this type of game which makes the changes seem worse than they are.

Honestly, it took a while to get used to the changes in NPE. I have grown accustomed to it. I can’t say that I like it, but it’s harmless. What I despise is how they modified the personal story in the process.

Because vets do roll new characters from time to time and we can remember the time that …

It’s bad enough to play someone so underpowered compared to the tricked out 80 you had been playing but adding in limitations until you are level X to be able to do Y can grate a bit.

I like how the OP pulls percentages out of the air. Where do you get the 99% of us comment from. Since the changes to it, I’m not even sure 50% care about it, let alone 99%.

How about we speak for ourselves. I know quite a few people who like the game better with the NPE. Certainly enough people to make me doubt that 99% of the people are bored by it.

For me, adding stuff to a game is a good thing… unless it screws up what was already there. If I made games for a living, why would I want to intentionally screw up my source of income? It makes no sense.

Behellagh.1468:

Because vets do roll new characters from time to time and we can remember the time that …

It’s bad enough to play someone so underpowered compared to the tricked out 80 you had been playing but adding in limitations until you are level X to be able to do Y can grate a bit.

This is partly the point i was trying to make with it making it so new players have the time with each skill/util/trait to figure out it’s ins and outs. I can understand being annoying but the only argument is that it’s not what you were used to.

A more important argument is what was mentioned about the ps being changed. Which i feel wouldnt be a problem wasn’t that the cap is 80(seriously, that’s way too high…)

Off topic though… Why is everyone getting a like(+1) except my first post… even the person asking what the npe was got a like… T.T

Nausiation.1469:

what is npe?………….

Null poin.. no hang on. New Player Experience.

The instant 20 scrolls got a nerf too due to those levels being really fast to obtain. Being able to mystic forge them higher would be grand.
The level up rewards are nice, especially later exotics. The wonkyness of stats is horrible. Traits are a disaster.

The leveling equipment (low level exotics) is a neat idea but abhorridly expensive to craft. Been thinking of rolling a light armour class over and over for the increased chance of good salvage may be worth it though it’s probably better to just farm on an 80. Sadly my main passtime farm was lion keys..

On an interesting note upon killing Zhaitan you get the choice of a lvl 18 account bound exotic (head, coat, pants) and 5 level tomes (that don’t stack with the other ones).

Souto.2716:

Behellagh.1468:

Because vets do roll new characters from time to time and we can remember the time that …

It’s bad enough to play someone so underpowered compared to the tricked out 80 you had been playing but adding in limitations until you are level X to be able to do Y can grate a bit.

This is partly the point i was trying to make with it making it so new players have the time with each skill/util/trait to figure out it’s ins and outs. I can understand being annoying but the only argument is that it’s not what you were used to.

A more important argument is what was mentioned about the ps being changed. Which i feel wouldnt be a problem wasn’t that the cap is 80(seriously, that’s way too high…)

Off topic though… Why is everyone getting a like(+1) except my first post… even the person asking what the npe was got a like… T.T

For reference, that +1 point you see next to everyone’s post? That’s so YOU can +1 that post. Obviously you can’t +1 your own post’s, so you don’t see it next to your own earlier post.

Well… color me red… i uh… Ima just go play the game now and hide in my home….

NPE? Sour taste? Two lousy months? Do something about the Megaserver first. It’s been making me vomit for seven months.

Seriously… will there ever be a way to play on a less jam-packed server again? That’s why I chose a lower population one during account creation in the first place.

NPE was completely unnecessary in the first place and a waste of precious ressources. Instead they could have fixed some of the countless bugs which are still haunting this game, but noooo. They had to screw something up which worked perfectly fine.

Schwarzseher.9873:

NPE was completely unnecessary in the first place and a waste of precious ressources. Instead they could have fixed some of the countless bugs which are still haunting this game, but noooo. They had to screw something up which worked perfectly fine.

Don’t fix it if it isn’t broken.

Ehh the NPE is a little bit annoying but it isn’t that horrible… If you’re a “vet” you know the easiest ways to level up. A guildy of mine leveled a character from 20 to 80 in like 8 hours. Even if you don’t use the leveling scroll the first 10 levels shouldn’t take more than an hour, every heart is like 75% of a level.

Honestly the only change that really bothers me in all this are the traits. It’s the only thing that keeps me from leveling up more characters.

honestly i own 8 lv80 before trait change patch. i made a new lv80 to try the new trait system and i love it. i del one of my pre patch lv80 as replacement.

I’ve also made 2 new characters after the npe patch. First one already hit lv80 in 2 weeks. Lots of fun therefore i started the 2nd one right away.

The NPE is fine, new players seem to like it and all the “veteran” players that complain about it seem to just be doing so just because they want to have something to complain about (seriously 1-20 takes a few hours at most, or 0 hours with scrolls)

The trait system that was put in place before is totally NOT fine. People get to 80 with 2-3 traits unlocked and have no idea how their class works, and unlocking traits is so miserable you have to end up buying them individually which is far from cheap. If the game needed a new gold sink that badly it should have been put in somewhere else, not in the trait system.

You’re right, the 99 percent should not have been used. I figured no one would take it that seriously. I’m just saying this from guild/map/forum/friend discussion, but it is not a be all end all. I’m glad to hear some people like it. I definitely don’t hate it. It’s just so tedious.

Games are meant to be fun, and what I meant is that the New player experience is not fun for alts, at least for me.
An option would be worth the time and effort I feel.

It’s not horrible, but it’s a bit of a downer that we feel the need to skip through it.

The “greatest fear” story is still broken, whether intentionally or not, two months later. I liked the old method of learning weapon skills far more. Other bits of the NPE are meh, the other stuff is just kinda whatever (though the level-gates have been lowered from the original NPE levels, which were far worse). If they fix the greatest fear story, I’d be happier about the whole thing.

It was never a huge deal, not for me at least. I reacted negatively before actually testing it fully. I tried it out and it is a small part of a bigger picture. Couple hours and the most of it is over with.

I had a brother try the game at launch, he quit before level 10. He tried it again during the last free trial and quit again. He didn’t have much to say about it. He just doesn’t like the game. He is predominantly a competitive PvP player, which explains why he doesn’t like it. My only experience on the NPE being effective or not.

Parts of the NPE were useful. The weapon unlocking levels are neither here nor there in my opinion, but the compass (allthough a little wonky) isn’t a bad idea at all. I have been playing The Secret World since I quit GW2 and it has NO direction whatsoever. It tells you to do something and gives no hints at all as to how to get started.

The way NPE messed up the storyline and Anets ignorance of the issues this created, however, is incompetent.

I leveled my 8th character and final character under the NPE and I’m fairly neutral. I did stop the PS after recapturing claw Island.

As a veteran player unlocking game/class features wasn’t particularly fun but it was over quickly. And as an Ele I probably unlocked all my weapon skills faster than I would have under the old skill unlocks. I can see it being a slightly gentler curve for MMO newbs so I think that is a good thing (although it could be done better with actual tutorials).

All the extra rewards while leveling and doing story content were great. I got skins and I got useful gear which made getting a level more exciting. Fantastic stuff.

Being able to do story in clusters rather than having them individually spread across levels worked better for me. Comes down to preferences though.

While not technically NPE Trait unlocking bought back that old GW1 elite skill hunting gameplay which I enjoy and for non-Gm traits it wasn’t hard to bypass that gameplay if I didn’t feel like it. However by 80 I hadn’t unlocked as many traits as I would have liked. It could be improved by making more traits tied to less time intensive game play (killing a specific elite, or completing a specific heart rather than completing a zone). Making traits account unlocks could also improve things and make that time investment worth while.

Souto.2716:

I just don’t see why veterans are angry by this change…

In the first place it isn’t targeted towards you. It’s like pve players getting angry about spvp/wvw mode changes.

Secondly, and seriously more important, the changes make it so a player is more familiar and has more experience with how each specific skill/utility/trait work. It’s not being dumbed down, it’s being explained in better detail.

The real issue is the fact that the cap is 80 levels in a game that isn’t about finding gears to further progress. That is waaay too high a level for this type of game which makes the changes seem worse than they are.

See, my problem with the NPE is that I’m not convinced it does teach new players how to use their skills, traits etc. At least not more than the previous system did.

I like the Content Guide (the little compass arrow). That does a good job of solving one of the most common problems I saw new players having, which was focusing entirely on hearts and the personal story and then wondering why they weren’t getting enough XP to keep up. Since the NPE came along I haven’t seen a single topic where someone complained about doing all their ‘quests’ and then running out of things to do, and having to have dynamic events, map completion and gathering explained to them.

(On the other hand I think it also works well for more adventurous/experienced players because you can ignore it at any time, or turn it off completely.)

I also like the level-up rewards, especially the ones that explain things like asura gates and armor tiers.

But the actual process of unlocking skills just seems like change for the sake of change. You unlock them more gradually as you level up, but you also level up faster so the end result is you get about the same amount of time with each.

And the change to weapon skills does the exact opposite IMO. On your first weapon you get more time to learn the skills, but if you switch you’re presented with all the ones you’ve unlocked so far all in one go and no incentive or opportunity to learn what they do unless you take the time to teach yourself.

There’s also a lot of stuff that’s still not explained. Like exactly what the different stats do, how ferocity converts into critical damage etc. Not stuff brand new players need to know, but at the moment (and since launch) you can get all the way to level 80 and still have no idea unless you resort to the wiki or something else outside the game to learn.

I don’t think the NPE was meant to actually teach the player how to play the game in the sense that you’re thinking. I’m thinking it’s doing something different.

It’s made to teach the player what to expect and what not to expect here. That is to say, it’s showing hearts and events are something important and key to the game. It’s showing the personal story, which only appears every ten levels isn’t the whole or main game.

And it does prevent information overload which is a real problem for some people.

No matter what you do there will always be players who don’t care about builds or don’t want to bother with them and nothing any company will do will change that. But giving people an indication of what the game is about, that’s important.

It would be great if this NPE sytem were for true new players .
But for people who already have level 80 and obtained traits this system should just be disabled .
So first char = level gating,unlocking traits etc.
next char=no level gating, no trait hunting etc.
This system may be good for NEW PLAYERS but every next char is just pain. Leveling is pain , unlocking traits doing same tasks is a pain .

I enjoy the NPE quite a bit. Especially the weapons part. I no longer have to unlock all my weapon skills each time I get a new weapon. They are already unlocked and I can just play. It takes me about 20-30 minutes as a veteran player to get to level 15, even less than that if I am crafting my way up.
If you are soo bothered by the NPE, Take 2gold and level cooking to about 225. If you’re a vet and have 80s you should be able to handle this no problem.

There ARE options around this so calm down. To me its fine I’ve leveled about 3 characters to 80 after the NPE came out and I have literally not had a single thing bother me about it after they fixed/changed the account bound stuff.

I played an ele through the NPE (which is why I refer to her on these forums as my NPE ele) and even though I still think it’s ridiculous to entertain cows instead of feeding them, it’s not NPE that keeps me from buying more character slots and creating new alts, it’s the trait system redesign and the attitude exhibited by anet in regard to the way so many of us feel about it.

I’ve leveled a few toons to 80 using the Tomes of Knowledge after the implementation of the NPE, and I have to say the only annoying thing is the reward system for leveling and the hour it takes to recieve/get rid of all your level-up rewards.

I still have no idea why they felt the need to devote time and resources into tuning the leveling experience to such a degree. Luckily, I already had all 8 classes at 80, and I have 3 level 80s (scrolls + tomes) in the bank if I ever want to do a “race change”. I started to level a character to see what it was like, and it was quite confounded by the whole thing.

I been telling you guys… give us an instant level 80 item in gem store (for experienced players). Leveling is soooo boring.

I like the level up rewards. I don’t like the way they made the earlier maps less interesting, the way the weapon skills unlock, or the way the story missions unlock.

The NPE is okayish. The trait system is the bigger issue. That’s actually kind of ruined the whole alt thing for me.

CrashTestAuto.9108:

I like the level up rewards. I don’t like the way they made the earlier maps less interesting, the way the weapon skills unlock, or the way the story missions unlock.

The NPE is okayish. The trait system is the bigger issue. That’s actually kind of ruined the whole alt thing for me.

Yup. Same here. Have 4 level 80s: Necro, Warrior, Ele, and Guardian. Was in the middle of leveling an Eng, Mesmer, and Thief when this new Trait system was foisted upon us. Except for a few levels increased via crafting or Tomes, I haven’t bothered with them at all. Tried rolling a Ranger and got her to 21 via crafting, etc. only to get frustrated with the Trait mechanics. In fact, I so haven’t bothered with anything that, yesterday, I cleared out (sold) everything I could in my bank (everything that wasn’t account bound). So, you if you had a custom price in the TP, you might have gotten lucky.

I am done with crafting Ascendeds, and will never bother with crafting a legendary. Cannot stand the grind anymore.

I am new here but Leveling is way to easy. I have never played a game that you could stay in a low level area and gain levels. To me it feels like a cheap way to play. I think it is a bad idea all the way around. I would like to see them make it so this level scaling nonsense was gone. That would make it so you had to move map to keep getting XP to level.

Rip Van Winkle.4859:

I am new here but Leveling is way to easy. I have never played a game that you could stay in a low level area and gain levels. To me it feels like a cheap way to play. I think it is a bad idea all the way around. I would like to see them make it so this level scaling nonsense was gone. That would make it so you had to move map to keep getting XP to level.

This game was advertised with level scaling as a feature and I think you’ll find most people like it. Here’s the problem.

In most MMOs, everyone stays in the final zones, because there’s no reason to go anywhere else. That means the game is increasingly empty. Why go back to a 40 or 50th level zone. There’s no reward. Nothing is doable there.

In this system you can still take your 20th level character into a 25 level area if you want, but everyone gets a choice.

Your way, only you get a choice.

This way is better. Much better.

Do you know how many times in other games I tried to level with friend and we had to sink up and wait for each other to log in, and then you’d play the character, get too far ahead and couldn’t hang with them?

Do you know how many times in other games I started an alt just to level with a friend?

I don’t have to do that anymore.

Vayne.8563:

Rip Van Winkle.4859:

I am new here but Leveling is way to easy. I have never played a game that you could stay in a low level area and gain levels. To me it feels like a cheap way to play. I think it is a bad idea all the way around. I would like to see them make it so this level scaling nonsense was gone. That would make it so you had to move map to keep getting XP to level.

This game was advertised with level scaling as a feature and I think you’ll find most people like it. Here’s the problem.

In most MMOs, everyone stays in the final zones, because there’s no reason to go anywhere else. That means the game is increasingly empty. Why go back to a 40 or 50th level zone. There’s no reward. Nothing is doable there.

In this system you can still take your 20th level character into a 25 level area if you want, but everyone gets a choice.

Your way, only you get a choice.

This way is better. Much better.

Do you know how many times in other games I tried to level with friend and we had to sink up and wait for each other to log in, and then you’d play the character, get too far ahead and couldn’t hang with them?

Do you know how many times in other games I started an alt just to level with a friend?

I don’t have to do that anymore.

The only problem is that scaling works really bad , I can go to ascalon and 1shot eniemies in sentinel gear ,same thing in dungeons under level 80.(you can kill boss in 3 sec o_0 )
I think that they should re build system and make it not downscaling players but upscaling enemies . Much easier to do it and probably it would work much better then current scaling .

Vayne.8563:

Rip Van Winkle.4859:

I am new here but Leveling is way to easy. I have never played a game that you could stay in a low level area and gain levels. To me it feels like a cheap way to play. I think it is a bad idea all the way around. I would like to see them make it so this level scaling nonsense was gone. That would make it so you had to move map to keep getting XP to level.

This game was advertised with level scaling as a feature and I think you’ll find most people like it. Here’s the problem.

In most MMOs, everyone stays in the final zones, because there’s no reason to go anywhere else. That means the game is increasingly empty. Why go back to a 40 or 50th level zone. There’s no reward. Nothing is doable there.

In this system you can still take your 20th level character into a 25 level area if you want, but everyone gets a choice.

Your way, only you get a choice.

This way is better. Much better.

Do you know how many times in other games I tried to level with friend and we had to sink up and wait for each other to log in, and then you’d play the character, get too far ahead and couldn’t hang with them?

Do you know how many times in other games I started an alt just to level with a friend?

I don’t have to do that anymore.

I am happy for you that you like the way it is. Again I think it is poor game design. That is my opinion. I have played different games on line and off line for many years. This is the first like this I have played. Yes I know how it was advertised I tried it and don’t like it this way. But then there are always people that will. To me it feels dumb-ed down.

Rip Van Winkle.4859:

Vayne.8563:

Rip Van Winkle.4859:

I am new here but Leveling is way to easy. I have never played a game that you could stay in a low level area and gain levels. To me it feels like a cheap way to play. I think it is a bad idea all the way around. I would like to see them make it so this level scaling nonsense was gone. That would make it so you had to move map to keep getting XP to level.

This game was advertised with level scaling as a feature and I think you’ll find most people like it. Here’s the problem.

In most MMOs, everyone stays in the final zones, because there’s no reason to go anywhere else. That means the game is increasingly empty. Why go back to a 40 or 50th level zone. There’s no reward. Nothing is doable there.

In this system you can still take your 20th level character into a 25 level area if you want, but everyone gets a choice.

Your way, only you get a choice.

This way is better. Much better.

Do you know how many times in other games I tried to level with friend and we had to sink up and wait for each other to log in, and then you’d play the character, get too far ahead and couldn’t hang with them?

Do you know how many times in other games I started an alt just to level with a friend?

I don’t have to do that anymore.

I am happy for you that you like the way it is. Again I think it is poor game design. That is my opinion. I have played different games on line and off line for many years. This is the first like this I have played. Yes I know how it was advertised I tried it and don’t like it this way. But then there are always people that will. To me it feels dumb-ed down.

It is dumbed down.

We’ve had threads about taking out downscaling before, and the overwhelming response to those threads have been that most people like it.

That’s my experience on these forums.

I’ve played lots of MMOs too and thought most of them sucked. I’m glad this game is different. It’s why I’m here.

You can always move to a higher level area. More map completion will get done which means more xp. Sticking around low level areas for a long time isn’t an efficient way of leveling and it won’t teach you how to use your class or deal with higher level content. With the way maps are labeled with what level they are, I don’t think anyone would be compelled to stick around a low level area for too long. They would just get bored.

The level scaling allows players to return to lower level maps and enjoy content there. It isn’t meant for people to stay there forever lol.

I still hate it. If people honestly couldn’t grasp the old system, even with guides and the map chat to help them… they shouldn’t be the target audience of an MMO.

It works, it does what they wanted it to do. We will never know if it does a better job of retaining after starter zones but frankly as I said before several times it has zero impact on me. I have created characters to get keys after and it takes longer because you need to be level 10, so it takes an hour instead of 20 minutes I really am not seeing anything to be upset about. As for megaserver I personally really think it was a good idea.

Xaevryn.5687:

It’s to the point where I only make a new character if I have one of those “Straight to level 20” scrolls.

Wtg Anet. You enacted a policy nobody wanted at the time, and that people still don’t want. Many people I have spoken to as well as myself had absolutely zero problems when we first started out. At least not compared to other MMO’s. Yet now new players have their intelligence insulted, and old players have to sit and plod through an unfun, grindy, horrible gameplay experience. Way to kittening go.

I actually have a friend who came back after the changes, doesn’t feel insulted, and is enjoying it now.

The downscaling is in fact exceptional game design – it allwos for maps to be populated teh world over which is something most MMo’s fail with. What is the point of having a map which is redundant after a few levels? This way you can repeat old zones and be rewarded and new content can be added and built on. Every MMo should have this.

As for the NPE. Well, I’ve just started a new character. There are some differences granted, but nothing game breaking or changing. Certainly nothing at all to warrant the responses I saw about it

You are asking the wrong player here. I was not one of the players that this was targeted for.

As a player who has been “loyal” and here since GW1 and the betas of GW2, I felt sad, angry, and bit insulted by the change. I would have rather have seen the resources and time devoted spent on other things improving the core of the game rather than hitting the “reset” button in such a poorly designed way. There are so many new bugs and plot holes that they should be taking no pride in this kitten move.

I would love to hear the response from a new player. This was for them. It was to make them feel better, not veteran players. If it accomplished that, then I would feel better about this. So new players, what do you have to say? Do you feel confused about anything?

I’ve leveled up two characters (they were 40 and 60 before the patch) and is now working on my necro. I have to say I am rather fond of the NPE, it’s a bit awkward right at the start because you’re used to other things, but once you’re past 20 it flows very well. I like it!