NPE Feedback [Merged] - Please read 1st post
It basically boils down to “to level up you have to explore these things, but to even see these things on the map so you can explore them you have to be leveled up”.
Again… logic has been denied. :P
How about if I do the work for both of you?
I actually thought about what Vayne was saying here, and I wondered just what the numbers were. So I decided to go to page 1 and make a spreadsheet. Any opinion which was stated as overall negative got a ranking of “nay.” Any opinion overall positive got a “yay.” Any opinion which was modified to be better after their own OP also got a “yay.” Any opinion which was ambiguous, but seemed positive got a “yay.” Every poster got only one rank no matter how many posts they made. Any posts made regarding only the trait changes was ignored. Likewise, some posters which had no stated opinion were ignored. I purposely gave the “yay” crowd more leeway, and was more stringent on all of the “nay” votes.It’s closer than you think.
Not even a little bit close.
The final number, as of now, is 47 Yays.
The final number of nays?
225… that’s 17% for / 83% against the NPE.Oh, wait…here’s my input. Overall, I understand why Anet wanted to do something, but I think it went in a bad direction.
226-47
Granted, that is only this thread.
But didn’t you get the memo? Forum posts only count if they agree with Vayne. Any posts that disagree with him are just a “loud and vocal minority” and thus are invalid. Therefore the count is really 47 yays-0 nays!
In all seriousness though, you make very good suggestions. Especially the suggestion of an encyclopedia to reference. I know GW1 had links in-game for any skills, characters, etc. you encountered that actually took you to the relevant page on the GW1 wiki. Something like that could help in GW2, definitely more so than this abomination of an NPE.
And grats on doing the actual legwork. I definitely suspected that Vayne was way off.
As a veteran player I’ve come to hate the NPE.
I bought an alt acct. with the recent $10 sale and its been incredibly painful leveling. In fact the project I had in mind, I’ve given up on. I just use the account to mine my mains home instance.
Additionally, and more importantly, buying additional slots doesn’t let you escape the road blocks for your main account. If you have a bunch of level 80’s I think it’s safe to say you ‘get’ GW2. Why I have to do a heap of PvE or spend lots of gold for what I was previously able to do with ease. My recent experiences getting a toon to level 80 left me with one overall feeling: NPE = toe cutters.
Literally I was just crippled trying to get my level 80 toon set up. I didn’t enjoy the new experience at all.
Returning player, decided to start a new character.
After 3 levels, I went to the internet trying to figure out how to turn off the tutorial pop-ups that were invasive, unwanted, and ultimately unhelpful. Turns out I can’t, so I just have to deal with it.
Then discovered that everything, including weapon skills, is now unlocked solely by level, rather than through usage or discovery.
If my wife didn’t want to come back far more strongly than I did, I wouldn’t still be here, and it would be a direct result of these changes; the max level stuff has changed so dramatically I honestly don’t even know where I would start, and going back to level 1 is borderline insulting…. like I have the option of either going to preschool or being a junior at university, with nothing in-between.
You’ve got it in one. Seven people complaining over and over again does not a stampede make. You named people who have posted dozens of times in this thread, while ignoring the drive bys that say I’m fine with it, or it’s not as bad as people say, or even I like it better.
I’m not going to do your work for you. Look at the thread and start putting marks next to people who complain about it multiple times such as yourself and people who don’t have a problem with it.
How about if I do the work for both of you?
I actually thought about what Vayne was saying here, and I wondered just what the numbers were. So I decided to go to page 1 and make a spreadsheet. Any opinion which was stated as overall negative got a ranking of “nay.” Any opinion overall positive got a “yay.” Any opinion which was modified to be better after their own OP also got a “yay.” Any opinion which was ambiguous, but seemed positive got a “yay.” Every poster got only one rank no matter how many posts they made. Any posts made regarding only the trait changes was ignored. Likewise, some posters which had no stated opinion were ignored. I purposely gave the “yay” crowd more leeway, and was more stringent on all of the “nay” votes.It’s closer than you think.
Not even a little bit close.
The final number, as of now, is 47 Yays.
The final number of nays?
225… that’s 17% for / 83% against the NPE.Oh, wait…here’s my input. Overall, I understand why Anet wanted to do something, but I think it went in a bad direction.
226-47
Granted, that is only this thread.
In the interest of providing constructive criticism and not derailing the thread completely, I offer the following suggestions:
-Remove the level gating of PS.
-Remove the dancing for cows/other bundle changes. Those things were much better before.
-Add more actual explanation of game mechanics that are “confusing for new players” instead of removing functioning content or level gating content or features. Actual tutorials or even a GW2opedia to reference in-game would be great.
-Fix the stat slump and give SPs earlier.I did like what they did for dodging, but I feel it came too late. I also liked the rewards, even though some of it becomes useless as you level.
I will hold any trait comments/complaints until the new system is launched.
But page 1 was before changes were made to the NPC that solved some people’s complaints. This thread started BEFORE the change. A lot of people were complaining about the elite skill unlocking at 40 where as almost no one is complaining about it unlocking at level 31 by comparison. Likewise there were bug fixes where on your second character, you didn’t get locked out of stuff like skill points.
Taking it from the beginning means you’re ignoring changes that people thought were okay. There were even people who said (not sure if in this thread or not) that they were okay with it after those changes.
You have to count from when the changes were made, because it pacified quite a few people, except for the most vocal. You’d also have to exclude people who are complaining mainly about the trait system and saying that’s the NPE which is a bunch of other people.
And right on cue, just after I made my above post…
But page 1 was before changes were made to the NPC that solved some people’s complaints. This thread started BEFORE the change. A lot of people were complaining about the elite skill unlocking at 40 where as almost no one is complaining about it unlocking at level 31 by comparison. Likewise there were bug fixes where on your second character, you didn’t get locked out of stuff like skill points.
Taking it from the beginning means you’re ignoring changes that people thought were okay. There were even people who said (not sure if in this thread or not) that they were okay with it after those changes.
Even accepting your “people who dislike the NPE instead of hating it don’t really count as not liking it” point, are you seriously suggesting that 178 of the nays (the difference between the yays and nays) are saying that? I’d love to see your numbers supporting that claim.
You have to count from when the changes were made, because it pacified quite a few people, except for the most vocal. You’d also have to exclude people who are complaining mainly about the trait system and saying that’s the NPE which is a bunch of other people.
Still not big on reading posts, I see:
Any posts made regarding only the trait changes was ignored.
And right on cue, just after I made my above post…
But page 1 was before changes were made to the NPC that solved some people’s complaints. This thread started BEFORE the change. A lot of people were complaining about the elite skill unlocking at 40 where as almost no one is complaining about it unlocking at level 31 by comparison. Likewise there were bug fixes where on your second character, you didn’t get locked out of stuff like skill points.
Taking it from the beginning means you’re ignoring changes that people thought were okay. There were even people who said (not sure if in this thread or not) that they were okay with it after those changes.
Even accepting your “people who dislike the NPE instead of hating it don’t really count as not liking it” point, are you seriously suggesting that 178 of the nays (the difference between the yays and nays) are saying that? I’d love to see your numbers supporting that claim.
You have to count from when the changes were made, because it pacified quite a few people, except for the most vocal. You’d also have to exclude people who are complaining mainly about the trait system and saying that’s the NPE which is a bunch of other people.
Still not big on reading posts, I see:
Any posts made regarding only the trait changes was ignored.
I think a lot of people did change their views. I know some of them personally.
Day 1 you get a lot of off the cuff reactions. A good number of those reactions were from people who admittedly never even tried it. That’s good research right there.
I’m against this thing based on what everyone else is saying.
Those who tried it often didn’t see what the big deal was.
I think a lot of people did change their views. I know some of them personally.
Day 1 you get a lot of off the cuff reactions. A good number of those reactions were from people who admittedly never even tried it. That’s good research right there.
I’m against this thing based on what everyone else is saying.
Those who tried it often didn’t see what the big deal was.
Unverifiable anecdotal evidence vs actual numbers that someone did the legwork to get.
I think I’ll go with the latter.
I think a lot of people did change their views. I know some of them personally.
Day 1 you get a lot of off the cuff reactions. A good number of those reactions were from people who admittedly never even tried it. That’s good research right there.
I’m against this thing based on what everyone else is saying.
Those who tried it often didn’t see what the big deal was.
Unverifiable anecdotal evidence vs actual numbers that someone did the legwork to get.
I think I’ll go with the latter.
If you’re saying that legwork means counting stuff that was a complaint before changes were made and not seeing if the changes make the difference, you can keep it.
It’s really really simple. People complained. Anet made changes. That’s a FACT. It’s not a theory. Changes were made. If you’re going to look at the complaints before the changes were made, you’re not fair-minded. And I don’t think any reasonable person would think you are.
People in this forum get something in their head. There was enough misinformation going on in the early days that some people based their entire opinion on the NPC based on it. If that’s okay with you that’s fine.
That doesn’t make it okay.
I think a lot of people did change their views. I know some of them personally.
Day 1 you get a lot of off the cuff reactions. A good number of those reactions were from people who admittedly never even tried it. That’s good research right there.
I’m against this thing based on what everyone else is saying.
Those who tried it often didn’t see what the big deal was.
Unverifiable anecdotal evidence vs actual numbers that someone did the legwork to get.
I think I’ll go with the latter.
Should we actually count the posts where people said things which were demonstrated to be falsified (either through ignorance or perhaps ulterior motive) about what the NPE was preventing them from doing?
There was a fair amount of that going on too. I know, I ran into it and created a character solely to check it out.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
-Add more actual explanation of game mechanics that are “confusing for new players” instead of removing functioning content or level gating content or features. Actual tutorials or even a GW2opedia to reference in-game would be great.
Oh I think I forgot to mention.. I like the ideas you gave and actually GW2 already had some reference in-game, although not complete as an encyclopedia. There was a Help panel that provided very useful hints and tips about the most of basic mechanics. I can’t understand why they got rid of it… Actually, it is still in game. The shortcut key still works and brings that panel back.
By the way, let’s not derail the thread guys. Let’s focus on the main subject instead who is right or wrong on stuff.
-Add more actual explanation of game mechanics that are “confusing for new players” instead of removing functioning content or level gating content or features. Actual tutorials or even a GW2opedia to reference in-game would be great.
Oh I think I forgot to mention.. I like the ideas you gave and actually GW2 already had some reference in-game, although not complete as an encyclopedia. There was a Help panel that provided very useful hints and tips about the most of basic mechanics. I can’t understand why they got rid of it… Actually, it is still in game. The shortcut key still works and brings that panel back.
By the way, let’s not derail the thread guys. Let’s focus on the main subject instead who is right or wrong on stuff.
I think there’s a point to focusing on the main subject, which is feedback on the NPE. When people, however, claim that everyone or just about everyone hates it, that’s an issue, because it obscures the feedback.
I believe the NPE can be better. I also believe that how bad it is is greatly exaagerated. If the exaageration is going to give a false impression I believe it needs to be discussed.
If people would say how they felt without trying to make it sound like everyone feels like this, this discussion would be far more genuine.
The patch that came out after the NPE fixed a lot of what I felt was wrong with it.
The major thing left for me is the story issue, which is being worked on.
So if you take away the way that the story was basically ruined, and you take the trait system out of the equation, which isn’t part of the NPE and is going away anyway, you’re having a different conversation than some of the people here.
Yes, there was a patch that fixed several things. But a big part of it still feels wrong and needs some action. Even after that fixes the system still treats people as having low IQ, things are still dumb and non-sense, it still have too much hand-holding and too much restrictions where it was never needed.
The fix done feels something like when someone holds your hand to help you to cross the street, then you tell them that they are gripping your hand too much and all what they do is only lessen it a very little bit, but still holding it tight as if supposing you aren’t able enough to do it on your own.
Yes, there was a patch that fixed several things. But a big part of it still feels wrong and needs some action. Even after that fixes the system still treats people as having low IQ, things are still dumb and non-sense, it still have too much hand-holding and too much restrictions where it was never needed.
The fix done feels something like when someone holds your hand to help you to cross the street, then you tell them that they are gripping your hand too much and all what they do is only lessen it a very little bit, but still holding it tight as if supposing you aren’t able enough to do it on your own.
But there are people with low IQs. You’re probably a smart guy and smart people don’t realize that most people are average. There’s this thread right now on reddit.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2vqowu/new_player_with_some_questions/
This guy is level 15 and doesn’t know what to do. He just doesn’t. Now I’m not saying he’s not intelligent. I’m saying he could be quite smart, but he’s from other games that give you very clear breadcrumb trails. This game doesn’t.
So any help you can give players that aren’t as quick as you are isn’t a bad thing. Frustrated people do leave games.
These changes weren’t meant for you and an experienced player can travel through them very quickly.
That’s why I say that our feedback, saying that we shouldn’t be treated like we’re stupid..well sure, that’s what the most intelligent people would think.
How about we try to be a little more understanding to those that haven’t picked it up so easily.
These changes weren’t meant for you.
Except that they were. They were specifically implemented in such a way as to affect all players with a new character, not just those who struggle with certain concpets due to inexperience or limited capacity. Everyone creating and playing a new character has the new experience rather than the old. That was Anet’s decision. The ability to skip past or speed through a zone/level range rather than play through the experience as it previously existed doesn’t change the FACT that Anet opted to include veteran players as well as novices in the target for the changes.
I dont personally care for the NPE. Hate is too strong of a word but dislike works just fine here. I think that certain aspects go a bit too far (dancing for cows ?) but others seem like a great idea (dodge tutorial).
These changes weren’t meant for you.
Except that they were. They were specifically implemented in such a way as to affect all players with a new character, not just those who struggle with certain concpets due to inexperience or limited capacity. Everyone creating and playing a new character has the new experience rather than the old. That was Anet’s decision. The ability to skip past or speed through a zone/level range rather than play through the experience as it previously existed doesn’t change the FACT that Anet opted to include veteran players as well as novices in the target for the changes.
I dont personally care for the NPE. Hate is too strong of a word but dislike works just fine here. I think that certain aspects go a bit too far (dancing for cows ?) but others seem like a great idea (dodge tutorial).
When I say the NPE wasn’t meant for you, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect you. Changes to the game in the NPE were meant to increase the rate at which new players remained with the game. That doesn’t have that much to do with you.
If 1000 old people really don’t like it but 2000 new people stay and play longer, Anet did what they intended to do with it.
If they make it so that you like it, it’s entirely possible it will lose its original meaning.
I’m not saying I wouldn’t be happier having more skills faster. I’m simply saying that to me it doesn’t much matter. It doesn’t change the game for me.
However, if it keeps people in the game longer that is good for me, so I don’t see it as a big deal.
I particularly don’t see it as a big deal because the first fifteen levels pretty much fly (and I still have 20th level scrolls anyway if I find it really bad which I don’t).
But there are people with low IQs. You’re probably a smart guy and smart people don’t realize that most people are average. There’s this thread right now on reddit.
You got my point, I won’t get in discussing it and yes, I’m also average. Also, I like to help people then yes, I help them when I see someone needing help.
These changes weren’t meant for you and an experienced player can travel through them very quickly.
That’s why I say that our feedback, saying that we shouldn’t be treated like we’re stupid..well sure, that’s what the most intelligent people would think.
How about we try to be a little more understanding to those that haven’t picked it up so easily.
So why forcing this stupidity down *everyone*’s throat? Helping people who needs help is indeed a great thing and the initiative was great. But why generalize and treat everyone as if everyone needs help? That’s the big issue with it.
It doesn’t take in account what level you are or how experienced you are. It treats everyone as starter in MMOs world. Remember, those who are new to GW2 can also be experienced and veteran in MMO games in general, then why treating them as if they never dealt with MMOs?
Options, free choice, options, free will, options and options… (did I say options?) this is what wrong with it. It feels like you are in high-school but you are forced to go back to kindergarten because they think you aren’t able enough to keep going. Stop defending it so much and analyze all facts too, also stop taking it on personal base when someone disagrees.
And excuse me but… what are you trying to say with “That’s why I say that our feedback, saying that we shouldn’t be treated like we’re stupid..well sure, that’s what the most intelligent people would think.”? Can you complete it as I didn’t get your point?
They were specifically implemented in such a way as to affect all players with a new character, not just those who struggle with certain concpets due to inexperience or limited capacity. Everyone creating and playing a new character has the new experience rather than the old.
That’s what I just said..
If 1000 old people really don’t like it but 2000 new people stay and play longer, Anet did what they intended to do with it.
And those 2000 will one day become veteran players… and if they start seeing it as we see it now at that time… well, who knows…
I’m simply saying that to me it doesn’t much matter. It doesn’t change the game for me. [..]
I particularly don’t see it as a big deal because the first fifteen levels pretty much fly
So why do you insist to reply to every and all posts disagreeing with it if you don’t mind with it? Let it for those who care :P
(edited by shadow.6174)
But there are people with low IQs. You’re probably a smart guy and smart people don’t realize that most people are average. There’s this thread right now on reddit.
You got my point, I won’t get in discussing it and yes, I’m also average. Also, I like to help people then yes, I help them when I see someone needing help.
These changes weren’t meant for you and an experienced player can travel through them very quickly.
That’s why I say that our feedback, saying that we shouldn’t be treated like we’re stupid..well sure, that’s what the most intelligent people would think.
How about we try to be a little more understanding to those that haven’t picked it up so easily.
So why forcing this stupidity down *everyone*’s throat? Helping people who needs help is indeed a great thing and the initiative was great. But why generalize and treat everyone as if everyone needs help? That’s the big issue with it.
It doesn’t take in account what level you are or how experienced you are. It treats everyone as starter in MMOs world. Remember, those who are new to GW2 can also be experienced and veteran in MMO games in general, then why treating them as if they never dealt with MMOs?
Options, free choice, options, free will, options and options… (did I say options?) this is what wrong with it. It feels like you are in high-school but you are forced to go back to kindergarten because they think you aren’t able enough to keep going. Stop defending it so much and analyze all facts too, also stop taking it on personal base when someone disagrees.
And excuse me but… what are you trying to say with “That’s why I say that our feedback, saying that we shouldn’t be treated like we’re stupid..well sure, that’s what the most intelligent people would think.”? Can you complete it as I didn’t get your point?
You’re going to play the first 20 levels of your character for a tiny tiny portion of a character’s life. I mean the longer you play the character, the smaller that percentage gets. If you spent 2 hours going to level 20, assuming you don’t use a scroll, and you then spend 200 hours on that character, it’s only 1% of the character’s life. That’s it.
Now, I don’t know how much work it would take to create these options, but I do know that Anet is giving away leveling up tomes now, just for logging in. It may be the leveling up tomes are less work than what you’re asking for.
People are crying out for new content, people are complaining this change already took too long, but we want to complicate it.
It’s already set up so your second passage through the new system is different from the first. So the worst of if it you only have to endure on a single character.
I can see where it would be a little annoying but not the kind of hatred it’s received. It’s a massive over-reacting and the early part of it is a larger over-reaction. People bought into the disinformation. Some people never tried it.
And a lot of people who did try it realized it’s really not that bad…if it accomplishes that Anet was trying to do, which is the only caveat I can think of.
These changes weren’t meant for you.
Except that they were. They were specifically implemented in such a way as to affect all players with a new character, not just those who struggle with certain concpets due to inexperience or limited capacity. Everyone creating and playing a new character has the new experience rather than the old. That was Anet’s decision. The ability to skip past or speed through a zone/level range rather than play through the experience as it previously existed doesn’t change the FACT that Anet opted to include veteran players as well as novices in the target for the changes.
I dont personally care for the NPE. Hate is too strong of a word but dislike works just fine here. I think that certain aspects go a bit too far (dancing for cows ?) but others seem like a great idea (dodge tutorial).
When I say the NPE wasn’t meant for you, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect you. Changes to the game in the NPE were meant to increase the rate at which new players remained with the game. That doesn’t have that much to do with you.
If 1000 old people really don’t like it but 2000 new people stay and play longer, Anet did what they intended to do with it.
If they make it so that you like it, it’s entirely possible it will lose its original meaning.
I’m not saying I wouldn’t be happier having more skills faster. I’m simply saying that to me it doesn’t much matter. It doesn’t change the game for me.
However, if it keeps people in the game longer that is good for me, so I don’t see it as a big deal.
I particularly don’t see it as a big deal because the first fifteen levels pretty much fly (and I still have 20th level scrolls anyway if I find it really bad which I don’t).
It was meant to affect veterans. It was not meant to benefit them. It took aspects of the game away from them.
I get that Anet had a reason for the changes. I think that this is another example of good concept, less good implementation. I think that Anet has some of the best idea guys/gals around. I dont think that their implementation is always on the same level as their vision though. This is an example ofthat IMO.
The changes were meant to help new players, they were meant to ruin the early game for others, they were meant to encourage some to just skip creating/playing alts, and they were meant to be ignored as relatively inconsequential by yet others.
These changes weren’t meant for you.
Except that they were. They were specifically implemented in such a way as to affect all players with a new character, not just those who struggle with certain concpets due to inexperience or limited capacity. Everyone creating and playing a new character has the new experience rather than the old. That was Anet’s decision. The ability to skip past or speed through a zone/level range rather than play through the experience as it previously existed doesn’t change the FACT that Anet opted to include veteran players as well as novices in the target for the changes.
I dont personally care for the NPE. Hate is too strong of a word but dislike works just fine here. I think that certain aspects go a bit too far (dancing for cows ?) but others seem like a great idea (dodge tutorial).
When I say the NPE wasn’t meant for you, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect you. Changes to the game in the NPE were meant to increase the rate at which new players remained with the game. That doesn’t have that much to do with you.
If 1000 old people really don’t like it but 2000 new people stay and play longer, Anet did what they intended to do with it.
If they make it so that you like it, it’s entirely possible it will lose its original meaning.
I’m not saying I wouldn’t be happier having more skills faster. I’m simply saying that to me it doesn’t much matter. It doesn’t change the game for me.
However, if it keeps people in the game longer that is good for me, so I don’t see it as a big deal.
I particularly don’t see it as a big deal because the first fifteen levels pretty much fly (and I still have 20th level scrolls anyway if I find it really bad which I don’t).
It was meant to affect veterans. It was not meant to benefit them. It took aspects of the game away from them.
I get that Anet had a reason for the changes. I think that this is another example of good concept, less good implementation. I think that Anet has some of the best idea guys/gals around. I dont think that their implementation is always on the same level as their vision though. This is an example ofthat IMO.
The changes were meant to help new players, they were meant to ruin the early game for others, they were meant to encourage some to just skip creating/playing alts, and they were meant to be ignored as relatively inconsequential by yet others.
No they weren’t meant to ruin the early game for others and I can’t even imagine why you’d claim that.
They were meant to be a compromise, like so many things are. Anet did compromise by changing a lot of it too.
I’m not sure why a vastly experienced player needs to do the 1-15 at a slowly leisurely pace when they can just move into the game. Surely more skills wouldn’t make it more interested. You never got even a minor trait before till level 11, and then not a major 1 till level 15. Level 15 comes a whole lot faster now.
Just seems like people are arguing to argue. The change was made for a reason. You weren’t a target, even if you were affected. If the change is doing what it was meant to do, your feedback is less significant.
Now if it wasn’t doing what it was meant to do, then you’d have a stronger point.
Of course they were meant to ruin the early game for some players. The only alternative would be to assume complete idiocy on the part of the developers. I may not agree with everything they do but I have more faith in their intelligence than that.
There is no way that designers and decision makers at Anet could have not known that the changes would negatively impact, even severely so, some portion of their playerbase’s enjoyment of the early levels. Essentially ruining it for them. Knowing the inevitable consequences of an action and knowingly choosing to go forward with that action means intending the consequence.
Thats not something to be faulted for, it is inevitably part of changing and growing the game. Its natural. It shouldnt be ignored however. It should be openly acknowledged rather than hand waved away.
And everyone was a target. If something is purposefully aimed to affect someone the. They were a target of that effect.
(edited by Ashen.2907)
You’re going to play the first 20 levels of your character for a tiny tiny portion of a character’s life. I mean the longer you play the character, the smaller that percentage gets. If you spent 2 hours going to level 20, assuming you don’t use a scroll, and you then spend 200 hours on that character, it’s only 1% of the character’s life. That’s it.
Again, what’s the purpose of leveling soooo fast? Games aren’t made to be enjoyable? Leveling process should be a enjoyable experience and exploration time. For learning process that’s what tutorials and guides are for. I took 1 week to level up to 30 in my first char and I’m not ashamed of it neither regret it because I enjoyed it.
Now, I don’t know how much work it would take to create these options, but I do know that Anet is giving away leveling up tomes now, just for logging in. It may be the leveling up tomes are less work than what you’re asking for.
People are crying out for new content, people are complaining this change already took too long, but we want to complicate it.
The options I talk of are making these stuff optional, taking in account player’s background. Leave those locks and stuff for those who really have hard time learning and let the smarter or experienced skip it if they wish. The options I mean is not forcing learning stuff on those who already learned them. It’s like teaching a high-degree engineer guy how to make basic maths like 2+2.
Oh and those tomes are also just a workaround to lessen the frustration caused by this. “Oh, didn’t you like the new system? Ok, use this to skip it if you like as we don’t have time to do more proper fixes.” If not why the raising of receiving those tomes after all these complaints? Yes, there wouldn’t be reason to use tomes to skip it if it was an enjoyable experience. It falls in the same reason as my next point…
It’s already set up so your second passage through the new system is different from the first. So the worst of if it you only have to endure on a single character.
Again, the system is about New Players Experience, new people, first character only. Stop using second character as argument. The things done for seconds chars were just a workaround to give veteran players more movement and free choice due the consequences of the system.
I can see where it would be a little annoying but not the kind of hatred it’s received. It’s a massive over-reacting and the early part of it is a larger over-reaction. People bought into the disinformation. Some people never tried it.
And a lot of people who did try it realized it’s really not that bad…if it accomplishes that Anet was trying to do, which is the only caveat I can think of.
Well, some people doesn’t like being treated like a 3 years old child and forced to learn things they already know.
And yes, veteran players weren’t the main target of it but the system was designed without taking in account how it would affect them. Then yes, it’s like the system was meant to them too or they were ignored when designing the system.
Shadow,
You are mistaken on one point. It was taken into account how the NPE would affect veterans. Anet decided that the benefits for potential new players outweighed the negative impact on existing paying customers. Companies make this sort of decision all of the time.
Shadow,
You are mistaken on one point. It was taken into account how the NPE would affect veterans. Anet decided that the benefits for potential new players outweighed the negative impact on existing paying customers. Companies make this sort of decision all of the time.
Ah yes, I know that. What I mean was it felt like they weren’t taking into account.
Well, preferring to take the risk about how it would affect them feels like they didn’t think about them, more could have been done to lessen that feeling. Taking into account but doing nothing about it’s like not taking into account.
EDIT: Ah, I forgot a thing. When I meant veteran I didn’t mean only players veteran in GW2, but veteran players in MMOs in general. The system seems to not take in account their background, forcing them into learning stuff they might already known.
(edited by shadow.6174)
It’s already set up so your second passage through the new system is different from the first. So the worst of if it you only have to endure on a single character.
Indeed! Like so:
First new character on my alt account got a choice of one of three dyes.
Second new character on my alt account got a choice of one of the same three dyes.
Third new character on my alt account got a choice of one of the same three dyes.
Fourth new character on my alt account got a choice of one of the same three now already known dyes.
Fifth… etc. etc. etc.
Some good stuff there. Tested for over a year, or so I hear.
“There! Are! Four! Lights!” ~ Jean-Luc Picard
The table is a fable.
~snip~
Any opinion which was stated as overall negative got a ranking of “nay.” Any opinion overall positive got a “yay.” Any opinion which was modified to be better after their own OP also got a “yay.” Any opinion which was ambiguous, but seemed positive got a “yay.” Every poster got only one rank no matter how many posts they made. Any posts made regarding only the trait changes was ignored. Likewise, some posters which had no stated opinion were ignored. I purposely gave the “yay” crowd more leeway, and was more stringent on all of the “nay” votes.
~snip~
Granted, that is only this thread.But page 1 was before changes were made to the NPC that solved some people’s complaints. This thread started BEFORE the change. A lot of people were complaining about the elite skill unlocking at 40 where as almost no one is complaining about it unlocking at level 31 by comparison. Likewise there were bug fixes where on your second character, you didn’t get locked out of stuff like skill points.
Taking it from the beginning means you’re ignoring changes that people thought were okay. There were even people who said (not sure if in this thread or not) that they were okay with it after those changes.
You have to count from when the changes were made, because it pacified quite a few people, except for the most vocal. You’d also have to exclude people who are complaining mainly about the trait system and saying that’s the NPE which is a bunch of other people.
First, if you read the bolded text above, you will see that I took all of what you are saying into account when I did my tally. I actually changed some nays to yays in that process. I certainly cannot help if some did not return to update their OPs.
Second, taking the count only from the dates after changes were made would leave out any opinions which did not change. That is certainly no more accurate.
Third, I freely stipulate that the data I gathered serves to prove nothing about actual percentages of people with one opinion or another. However, you asserted that the numbers here were “closer than you think,” and having read this and earlier threads on the NPE, I did not believe that was the case. My count proved only that fact.
Last, it was no fun at all to do these tallies, and I kind of wish I hadn’t wasted my time with work that really proves no more than that there are a fair number of people who are still quite unhappy with the NPE. I blame the very mild OCD from which I suffer for motivating me to do it at all. I knew all the while I did it that I would change the mind of no one who actually likes the changes. I can likewise say that the multitude of posts you have made here will pretty much change the mind of no one who is against them. So, though I made this post about a different issue, I will leave this here again, because I feel it bears repeating:
All of us who dislike the change have lost something that we had before. Something that can’t be quantified by how much time or effort an achievement takes to complete. I’m 100% certain that all of the arguments by those who prefer the current system won’t give that back.
Anet giveth, and Anet taketh away.
Before or after is irrelevant.
If they complained about it before it took effect, that means they didn’t want it. If they thought it was good before it took effect, that means they wanted it.
So what?
If those that didn’t want it out numbered those that did and if those that don’t like it out number those that do then no matter how you spin it, it received more negative attention over all than positive and that is all that matters wrt if it was something ANet should’ve done or not.
If you’re saying that legwork means counting stuff that was a complaint before changes were made and not seeing if the changes make the difference, you can keep it.
It’s really really simple. People complained. Anet made changes. That’s a FACT. It’s not a theory. Changes were made. If you’re going to look at the complaints before the changes were made, you’re not fair-minded. And I don’t think any reasonable person would think you are.
People in this forum get something in their head. There was enough misinformation going on in the early days that some people based their entire opinion on the NPC based on it. If that’s okay with you that’s fine.
That doesn’t make it okay.
Again, if you have numbers to show that 178 of the nays were “counting stuff that was a complaint before changes were made and not seeing if the changes make the difference” then by all means present it. Until then, you’re still just grasping at straws.
So your posts boil down to just saying that “posts that disagree with me don’t count, because just well, nyahh!” Which, funny, is just how I predicted you’d react.
Should we actually count the posts where people said things which were demonstrated to be falsified (either through ignorance or perhaps ulterior motive) about what the NPE was preventing them from doing?
There was a fair amount of that going on too. I know, I ran into it and created a character solely to check it out.
Fine then, count them. Let us know the updated count (using what you consider misinformation, of course). Don’t be surprised if it doesn’t change very much.
Now, we can continue to grasp at straws and split hairs over whether or not posts that claim to just dislike the NPE rather than outright hate it really count as disliking it, or we can actually discuss changes that will help the NPE.
(edited by HandOfKane.5409)
Shadow,
You are mistaken on one point. It was taken into account how the NPE would affect veterans. Anet decided that the benefits for potential new players outweighed the negative impact on existing paying customers. Companies make this sort of decision all of the time.
Well, until the potential new players decide to make a new character and realize that they have to go through that NPE crap all over again, and for every subsequent character after that.
Assuming of course, that they’ll even want to stick around and not quit in disgust early on over the NPE, which some people in this thread have said they or friends have done.
Now, we can continue to grasp at straws and split hairs over whether or not posts that claim to just dislike the NPE rather than outright hate it really count as disliking it, or we can actually discuss changes that will help the NPE.
This, the last.
Ok, ok, we’re derailing this thread over personal discussion which amount to nothing.
And I say personal discussion referring to when you go back and forth with what each one said.
Now, on the interest to get matters back at hand, let me see if I got this straight from most of the thread, but particularly from page 25: they “yays” go in favor of getting new players, even if that effects negatively the old players because the company gets more money. Great, that’s how companies work, they want money. Nothing new or strange there.
They did not properly analyze the target market, for most people have at least played one MMORPG and/or do not suffer from severe kittenation. The hand holding and speed in which you reach level 20 goes against the company’s policy of “play how you want”. If the game was designed to be “end game” since level 1 (where the player can do almost anything, except some dungeons and some other minimal things), level gating everything is saying that they (the company) either don’t know what they’re doing or lying through their teeth. For a game based on exploring I am honestly not sure how rushing and throwing you to max level as fast as possible, any kind of incentive to exploration.
Limiting your option (by the grade of level gating implemented) and forcing you to use scrolls and (for example) mindless Mist trains to level, in my opinion, is not the action that enforces “free choice”. But alas, people like it and it can be dealt with. Given, of course, that you have more options.
Then we have the “nays”. My kin. The “kill it before it lays eggs” faction.
We are far more tolerating than you might think, actually. We don’t tolerate this system, hell naw. It’s awful. This, of course, is a matter of opinion. Our opinion. Same way as the “yays” have the right to theirs.
But, unlike the “yays”, I think (prove me right or wrong) that we would tolerate the “yays” to keep their hand holding. We. Don’t. Give. A. Hoot. We really don’t. Want to be carried like a baby and gated throughout the whole thing? Sure thing. Click here for “yes”, and get out of my face. Go. Be free little simpleton. Be free.
In exchange for our (“nays”) tolerance and your (“yays”) freedom (note: NPE freedom may have conditions applied) we have just one tiny request. An option. A way out. A godkitten If and End If on the kitten game code.
The lack of this option is why I think that the management don’t know what they are doing. In giving an option, you would get new players and keep the old.
Edit: this train wreck has been on for over five (5) months. No news. No “we’re working on it”. It’s not unexpected. They always push forward without looking back. The game still has bugs and exploits from when it came out. They do not learn from their mistakes, and proof is that they are able to fix and change issues such as this and choose to do nothing. Such a disappointment…
Can we have anything at all? There is still a small part of me that hopes for an “off” button so I can level new characters. Whichever the decision may be, I just want closure…
Eat, sleep, play video games
(edited by Ashendale.2165)
The hand holding and speed in which you reach level 20 goes against the company’s policy of “play how you want”. If the game was designed to be “end game” since level 1 (where the player can do almost anything, except some dungeons and some other minimal things), level gating everything is saying that they (the company) either don’t know what they’re doing or lying through their teeth. For a game based on exploring I am honestly not sure how rushing and throwing you to max level as fast as possible, any kind of incentive to exploration.
Limiting your option (by the grade of level gating implemented) and forcing you to use scrolls and (for example) mindless Mist trains to level, in my opinion, is not the action that enforces “free choice”. But alas, people like it and it can be dealt with. Given, of course, that you have more options.
we have just one tiny request. An option. A way out. A godkitten If and End If on the kitten game code.
The lack of this option is why I think that the management don’t know what they are doing. In giving an option, you would get new players and keep the old.
This, this, this and this!
Shadow,
You are mistaken on one point. It was taken into account how the NPE would affect veterans. Anet decided that the benefits for potential new players outweighed the negative impact on existing paying customers. Companies make this sort of decision all of the time.
Shadow, I think you’re far overestimating how many people are affected by this, or feel affected. You talk about speed of leveling. The first 15 levels are, and have always been, meant to be a tutorial. After those levels you can level as slow as you want with barely any interference at all from the NPE.
You can get to both WvW and PvP from level 2 if you want. On your second character after it a lot of stuff isn’t locked anyway.
For most of it you’re talking level 1-15 on your first attempt at leveling, after which it’s just not that bad. Not bad enough for the size of this response.
I think most people do see that there was an initial overreaction, and that’s not unusual for this particular fan base.
But unlike the trait changes, most people accept it and have moved on. There are a handful of people that think it’s godawful.
As for treating me like a 3 year old, I’m confident enough to know that I wasn’t the target audience for these changes and I’m happy they help other people that might need the help.
People are making this sound like it affects their entire game forever. It affects a few levels in the beginning, for a short period of time.
You can get through it and level as slow as you want after that.
Shadow, I think you’re far overestimating how many people are affected by this, or feel affected. You talk about speed of leveling. The first 15 levels are, and have always been, meant to be a tutorial. After those levels you can level as slow as you want with barely any interference at all from the NPE.
Yes and no. They were always meant to be a tutorial, yes. But right now, since the leveling for the first 20 levels was hastened, the tutorial goes onto further levels. Which, I just began to wonder, if the level cap is not to be raised, what is the point to make things go faster toward the level cap?
I think most people do see that there was an initial overreaction, and that’s not unusual for this particular fan base.
But unlike the trait changes, most people accept it and have moved on. There are a handful of people that think it’s godawful.
There is no overreaction on being paying costumers at a restaurant and having our half eaten (delicious) meal thrown against the wall, and be forced to eat moldy bread.
The trait change? Are we talking about that OTHER abomination? Nobody moved on with the trait change. Not even bloody close to that. Everyone in their right mind was upset about that. They already made a new thread because the previous one derailed, but here is proof that there will be change: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Game-Updates-Traits/4733414
Time will tell if it’s for the better. I won’t bother linking info regarding personal story screw up, because that one is to be fixed, as well. Official statement. Go ahead, look it up.
So traits and PS botch, both to be fixed. 2 down, 1 to go.
People are making this sound like it affects their entire game forever. It affects a few levels in the beginning, for a short period of time.
Well, maybe because it does affect the game forever. It is a massive game changer and not only were we not asked about it (great idea on all that no disclosing…), but we can’t turn it off, either.
Edit: misquote
Eat, sleep, play video games
Now, on the interest to get matters back at hand, let me see if I got this straight from most of the thread, but particularly from page 25: they “yays” go in favor of getting new players, even if that effects negatively the old players because the company gets more money. Great, that’s how companies work, they want money. Nothing new or strange there.
They did not properly analyze the target market, for most people have at least played one MMORPG and/or do not suffer from severe kittenation. The hand holding and speed in which you reach level 20 goes against the company’s policy of “play how you want”. If the game was designed to be “end game” since level 1 (where the player can do almost anything, except some dungeons and some other minimal things), level gating everything is saying that they (the company) either don’t know what they’re doing or lying through their teeth. For a game based on exploring I am honestly not sure how rushing and throwing you to max level as fast as possible, any kind of incentive to exploration.
Limiting your option (by the grade of level gating implemented) and forcing you to use scrolls and (for example) mindless Mist trains to level, in my opinion, is not the action that enforces “free choice”. But alas, people like it and it can be dealt with. Given, of course, that you have more options.
Then we have the “nays”. My kin. The “kill it before it lays eggs” faction.
We are far more tolerating than you might think, actually. We don’t tolerate this system, hell naw. It’s awful. This, of course, is a matter of opinion. Our opinion. Same way as the “yays” have the right to theirs.
But, unlike the “yays”, I think (prove me right or wrong) that we would tolerate the “yays” to keep their hand holding. We. Don’t. Give. A. Hoot. We really don’t. Want to be carried like a baby and gated throughout the whole thing? Sure thing. Click here for “yes”, and get out of my face. Go. Be free little simpleton. Be free.
In exchange for our (“nays”) tolerance and your (“yays”) freedom (note: NPE freedom may have conditions applied) we have just one tiny request. An option. A way out. A godkitten If and End If on the kitten game code.
The lack of this option is why I think that the management don’t know what they are doing. In giving an option, you would get new players and keep the old.
Edit: this train wreck has been on for over five (5) months. No news. No “we’re working on it”. It’s not unexpected. They always push forward without looking back. The game still has bugs and exploits from when it came out. They do not learn from their mistakes, and proof is that they are able to fix and change issues such as this and choose to do nothing. Such a disappointment…
Can we have anything at all? There is still a small part of me that hopes for an “off” button so I can level new characters. Whichever the decision may be, I just want closure…
Meh I dunno… I would very much prefer that all players got the choice of the “off button,” regardless of how new they are. It’s much easier for us to help new players if we’re all on the same page (as evidenced my the many posts where people have complained about trying to teach new players about SPs and vistas without knowing that the new player couldn’t see them, for example.)
Of course, the best solution would bee to trash the new progression (except the level-up rewards I guess) and restore the starting zones to how they were before (with the dodge tutorial) Then focus on actually making proper tutorials akin to said dodge tutorial (since even many of the harshest NPE critics agree that the dodge tutorial was the one good thing added).
Shadow, I think you’re far overestimating how many people are affected by this, or feel affected. You talk about speed of leveling. The first 15 levels are, and have always been, meant to be a tutorial. After those levels you can level as slow as you want with barely any interference at all from the NPE.
Yes and no. They were always meant to be a tutorial, yes. But right now, since the leveling for the first 20 levels was hastened, the tutorial goes onto further levels. Which, I just began to wonder, if the level cap is not to be raised, what is the point to make things go faster toward the level cap?
I think most people do see that there was an initial overreaction, and that’s not unusual for this particular fan base.
But unlike the trait changes, most people accept it and have moved on. There are a handful of people that think it’s godawful.
There is no overreaction on being paying costumers at a restaurant and having our half eaten (delicious) meal thrown against the wall, and be forced to eat moldy bread.
The trait change? Are we talking about that OTHER abomination? Nobody moved on with the trait change. Not even bloody close to that. Everyone in their right mind was upset about that. They already made a new thread because the previous one derailed, but here is proof that there will be change: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Game-Updates-Traits/4733414
Time will tell if it’s for the better. I won’t bother linking info regarding personal story screw up, because that one is to be fixed, as well. Official statement. Go ahead, look it up.
So traits and PS botch, both to be fixed. 2 down, 1 to go.
People are making this sound like it affects their entire game forever. It affects a few levels in the beginning, for a short period of time.
Well, maybe because it does affect the game forever. It is a massive game changer and not only were we not asked about it (great idea on all that no disclosing…), but we can’t turn it off, either.
Edit: misquote
See this is exactly what I mean. Ordering in a restaurant and having half our delicious meal thrown against the wall. Crap.
I’ve leveled characters both ways. It’s not half the meal. It’s not 25% of the meal. Due to the leveling speed increase it’s not even 10% of the meal. This is just exaageration to try to prove a point. What’s really changed? You don’t get a few skills as fast as you used to. That’s the main thing. You get traits later.
But as far as the rushing to get to max level, that’s been a rhetoric for part of the community for a long time. There are things locked off from characters at lower levels though. Explorable mode dungeons don’t start to level 35. The living story doesn’t start until 80. You need to be reasonably far along to participate in guild missions too, since you have to be able to get to those places in the game.
The fact is, when the game started and everyone was on even footing, more people were willing to take time, but a lot times now, and see this even in a casual guild like mine, people want to get into the higher stuff because there’s a lot of people doing that content. And unlike other MMOs, you can go back if you want and explore those areas.
In your opinion it’s not an over-reaction. In my opinion it is one.
You talk about speed of leveling. The first 15 levels are, and have always been, meant to be a tutorial. After those levels you can level as slow as you want with barely any interference at all from the NPE.
It was? For me it never felt like that, at lvl 10 i could already handle the most of stuff on my own. Also, if it’s only the first 20 lvls is meant to be a tutorial why still teaching ppl about stuff at lvl 50, 70 or even 80? Doesn’t it sound like the whole leveling process is now a tutorial?
And why forcing a tutorial down everyone’s throat, even for those who can already understand it quickly or even for those who already learned it like when making a second char?
You can get to both WvW and PvP from level 2 if you want. On your second character after it a lot of stuff isn’t locked anyway.
And…. once again… New Players Experience should be about the first experience, first character.. why we have to deal with a tutorial again every time a new char is made? The unlocks when on a second char seems to be just a way to lessen the whole tutorial experience again, even though the tutorial is still there clearly visible, or just a workaround to give veteran players an option to do their stuff without being disturbed by the tutorial.
As for treating me like a 3 year old, I’m confident enough to know that I wasn’t the target audience for these changes and I’m happy they help other people that might need the help.
You weren’t the target but you were included in it. Imagine you are at the middle school and then they decide to put your class together with a kindergarten one just for management purposes, would you like to go through all those early learning stages again just for someone else’s learning sake? What about being put there again and again and again…
Anyway, enough of pointing fingers. Let’s not derail it and focus on the subject here: issues with NPE and what can be done to solve it. Let’s stop pointing fingers and discussing what opinion matter or doesn’t. Let’s bring up more constructive suggestions instead non-sense and vague arguments.
You talk about speed of leveling. The first 15 levels are, and have always been, meant to be a tutorial. After those levels you can level as slow as you want with barely any interference at all from the NPE.
It was? For me it never felt like that, at lvl 10 i could already handle the most of stuff on my own. Also, if it’s only the first 20 lvls is meant to be a tutorial why still teaching ppl about stuff at lvl 50, 70 or even 80? Doesn’t it sound like the whole leveling process is now a tutorial?
And why forcing a tutorial down everyone’s throat, even for those who can already understand it quickly or even for those who already learned it like when making a second char?
You can get to both WvW and PvP from level 2 if you want. On your second character after it a lot of stuff isn’t locked anyway.
And…. once again… New Players Experience should be about the first experience, first character.. why we have to deal with a tutorial again every time a new char is made? The unlocks when on a second char seems to be just a way to lessen the whole tutorial experience again, even though the tutorial is still there clearly visible, or just a workaround to give veteran players an option to do their stuff without being disturbed by the tutorial.
As for treating me like a 3 year old, I’m confident enough to know that I wasn’t the target audience for these changes and I’m happy they help other people that might need the help.
You weren’t the target but you were included in it. Imagine you are at the middle school and then they decide to put your class together with a kindergarten one just for management purposes, would you like to go through all those early learning stages again just for someone else’s learning sake? What about being put there again and again and again…
Anyway, enough of pointing fingers. Let’s not derail it and focus on the subject here: issues with NPE and what can be done to solve it. Let’s stop pointing fingers and discussing what opinion matter or doesn’t. Let’s bring up more constructive suggestions instead non-sense and vague arguments.
There are many times in school when the class had to review stuff I already knew. It happened in most classes in fact. And then we got on to new stuff. I’m not even sure what you’re trying to say here.
Oh I see. It’s a couple of days at the beginning of the term. Sorry not seeing the issue, sorry you are.
No, I don’t want a review. Well I played Guild Wars 1 and there was a review every single time I made a new character. I didn’t have a lot of skills and the skills I wanted to use I generally didn’t have. There was always that starter zone. Start a new character in Prophecies, you start in pre.
There wasn’t enough tutorial in the beginning, and they added it. Deal with it or don’t, but most people will.
There are many times in school when the class had to review stuff I already knew. It happened in most classes in fact. And then we got on to new stuff. I’m not even sure what you’re trying to say here.
Oh I see. It’s a couple of days at the beginning of the term. Sorry not seeing the issue, sorry you are.
No, I don’t mean just having a review, neither being a couple of days at the beginning of the term. I mean being treated like new one every time, all time, being put on the beginning again, ignoring completely your background or where you are coming from. It’s more than a simple review to help everyone to catch up and be on the same stuff. And not the beginning of the term, but beginning of the whole learning lifetime. As other said, if you really read it all you would get it when I mentioned middle school and kindergarten, not a few days away from each other huh.
Anyway, let’s stop derailing and pointing fingers to each one’s opinion.
There are many times in school when the class had to review stuff I already knew. It happened in most classes in fact. And then we got on to new stuff. I’m not even sure what you’re trying to say here.
Oh I see. It’s a couple of days at the beginning of the term. Sorry not seeing the issue, sorry you are.
No… what shadow was saying is more like having to review how to eat, walk, speak, and use the bathroom at the beginning of every year, in middle school, high school, and college.
No, I don’t want a review. Well I played Guild Wars 1 and there was a review every single time I made a new character. I didn’t have a lot of skills and the skills I wanted to use I generally didn’t have. There was always that starter zone. Start a new character in Prophecies, you start in pre.
Well too bad then… because with the NPE, you’re getting a review every time whether you like it or not.
I believe that’s been our point from day 1.
There wasn’t enough tutorial in the beginning, and they added it. Deal with it or don’t, but most people will.
And many people have “dealt with it” by quitting in disgust. Pretty contrary to Anet’s plans for trying to attract more players to the game.
There are many times in school when the class had to review stuff I already knew. It happened in most classes in fact. And then we got on to new stuff. I’m not even sure what you’re trying to say here.
Oh I see. It’s a couple of days at the beginning of the term. Sorry not seeing the issue, sorry you are.
No… what shadow was saying is more like having to review how to eat, walk, speak, and use the bathroom at the beginning of every year, in middle school, high school, and college.
No, I don’t want a review. Well I played Guild Wars 1 and there was a review every single time I made a new character. I didn’t have a lot of skills and the skills I wanted to use I generally didn’t have. There was always that starter zone. Start a new character in Prophecies, you start in pre.
Well too bad then… because with the NPE, you’re getting a review every time whether you like it or not.
I believe that’s been our point from day 1.
There wasn’t enough tutorial in the beginning, and they added it. Deal with it or don’t, but most people will.
And many people have “dealt with it” by quitting in disgust. Pretty contrary to Anet’s plans for trying to attract more players to the game.
You should give it a rest. You don’t know how many people have “quit in disgust”. It’s like this in every game, including Guild Wars 1.
In Guild Wars 1, every time I started a new character I had to go through the basics of leveling a new character. It wasn’t a big deal there and for more people, it’s not a big deal here.
Do you have any percentages of how many people have left, or care at all? In my opinion, since the first changes were made, most people made peace with this. If you have another opinion, that’s all well and good, but it’s not relevant. Pretty sure Anet knows how many people have left, and how many people are making characters.
Should we actually count the posts where people said things which were demonstrated to be falsified (either through ignorance or perhaps ulterior motive) about what the NPE was preventing them from doing?
There was a fair amount of that going on too. I know, I ran into it and created a character solely to check it out.
Fine then, count them. Let us know the updated count (using what you consider misinformation, of course). Don’t be surprised if it doesn’t change very much.
Now, we can continue to grasp at straws and split hairs over whether or not posts that claim to just dislike the NPE rather than outright hate it really count as disliking it, or we can actually discuss changes that will help the NPE.
Why on Tyria would I want to do any of that except the last bit? I have zero interest in counting, or trying to make a vote tally. That’s your problem. Mine is how there are the following issues:
- The NPE combined with Trait rework has generated lessened interest in actually working up new characters of mine. The NPE on its own isn’t terrible, as I played through the first fifteen levels and thought it interesting . . . but I really wanted to go back to my first/main character. It’s not interesting enough to keep me, but it is nicer than the other MMO I started up about the same time NPE hit.
- The Trait rework, on the other hand, have me gun-shy to start fully new characters since they won’t have the near-full suite unlocked. This means “nope, only existing characters”. I’m of mixed emotions on what’s coming for it, but this isn’t the topic for that.
- A fair amount of people were presenting things which were demonstrably false about the NPE and the limitations. Either knowingly being misinformative, or in ignorance of the actual effects and parroting what they heard. This was done in map chat, and posts, and on Reddit. That’s a problem since it meant more people making decisions based on bad information.
- The NPE is probably here to stay. It might get tweaked here and there, but as a whole, it’s not probably going anywhere. It is possible it might get jettisoned . . . much like it’s possible to get a Precursor drop from something in Queensdale.
As such, if you want to discuss it, fine. You want to talk about what absolute nightsoil it is? Sure, go ahead. I couldn’t care less.
Try to use the bad information and terrible "polling data’ along the lines of exit pollsters? Yeah, I’m going to call you on that.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
Why on Tyria would I want to do any of that except the last bit? I have zero interest in counting, or trying to make a vote tally. That’s your problem. Mine is how there are the following issues:
Nope, doesn’t work like that. You were the one who claimed that “the nays are all misinformed and just starting trouble for the heck of it!”, not me. Therefore burden of proof is on you.
- A fair amount of people were presenting things which were demonstrably false about the NPE and the limitations. Either knowingly being misinformative, or in ignorance of the actual effects and parroting what they heard. This was done in map chat, and posts, and on Reddit. That’s a problem since it meant more people making decisions based on bad information.
A “fair amount of people,” eh. Vague terms are meaningless without actual numbers.
And I’m sure you can give examples of people “knowingly being misinformative,” or “in ignorance of the actual effects and parroting what they heard?”
The NPE is probably here to stay. It might get tweaked here and there, but as a whole, it’s not probably going anywhere. It is possible it might get jettisoned . . . much like it’s possible to get a Precursor drop from something in Queensdale.
Meh, and people will just keep quitting in disgust and making posts like in this thread. If that’s what Anet wants, then so be it.
As such, if you want to discuss it, fine. You want to talk about what absolute nightsoil it is? Sure, go ahead. I couldn’t care less.
And yet you keep responding. Looks like you care about it more than you think.
Try to use the bad information and terrible "polling data’ along the lines of exit pollsters? Yeah, I’m going to call you on that.
Examples of this “bad information and terrible ‘polling data’?” And I mean, not in the vein of “I disagree with it, so it’s invalid.”
You should give it a rest. You don’t know how many people have “quit in disgust”. It’s like this in every game, including Guild Wars 1.
And I never claimed to know the exact number of people who quit in disgust. Hence my use of “many” and not “all” or “most.”
In Guild Wars 1, every time I started a new character I had to go through the basics of leveling a new character. It wasn’t a big deal there and for more people, it’s not a big deal here.
And GW1’s NPE <> GW2’s NPE. So your point is what exactly?
Do you have any percentages of how many people have left, or care at all? In my opinion, since the first changes were made, most people made peace with this. If you have another opinion, that’s all well and good, but it’s not relevant. Pretty sure Anet knows how many people have left, and how many people are making characters.
And that’s all it is: your opinion. The issue is trying to present your opinion as a fact.
You should give it a rest. You don’t know how many people have “quit in disgust”. It’s like this in every game, including Guild Wars 1.
And I never claimed to know the exact number of people who quit in disgust. Hence my use of “many” and not “all” or “most.”
In Guild Wars 1, every time I started a new character I had to go through the basics of leveling a new character. It wasn’t a big deal there and for more people, it’s not a big deal here.
And GW1’s NPE <> GW2’s NPE. So your point is what exactly?
Do you have any percentages of how many people have left, or care at all? In my opinion, since the first changes were made, most people made peace with this. If you have another opinion, that’s all well and good, but it’s not relevant. Pretty sure Anet knows how many people have left, and how many people are making characters.
And that’s all it is: your opinion. The issue is trying to present your opinion as a fact.
No I stated in my opinion because it is my opinion. But I’m leaving the conversation yet again. This is obviously a hot button issue for you, and I’m sure there are a few others as well.
But I’m relatively certain the rest of us have moved on. Have fun.
No I stated in my opinion because it is my opinion. But I’m leaving the conversation yet again. This is obviously a hot button issue for you, and I’m sure there are a few others as well.
But I’m relatively certain the rest of us have moved on. Have fun.
I doubt it, otherwise this thread wouldn’t have any replies.
But it’s good you’re taking your own advice. Cya.
(edited by HandOfKane.5409)