Guild Wars 2

I hate the new NPE. I never had a problem getting into the game’s various systems back at launch, but playing a new character nowadays is just frustrating. I like the new level up rewards, but that’s about all I like.

The way to solve the problems that caused this change (iirc, that new players were overwhelmed) would be better tutorials or more helpful NPCs and early-character goals that lead to tutorials. While such things have been implemented, sort of (the dodgeroll trainers, the hint popups), the addition of locking things off to certain levels (often absurdly high) is ridiculous.

Instead of, say, only revealing vistas at a certain level, perhaps have a hint popup when a new player mouses over a vista on the map. Or include a new vista that’s very easy to get to in a new player area, and make a hint pop up once the player views it. Et cetera. Don’t lock it off, because new players will catch on that things are being restricted, and they will feel insulted.

The change I hate the most is weapon skills. Really? You don’t think players can handle five skills they get through gradual use of a weapon? That counts as overwhelming, too?

I really, REALLY liked how weapon skills worked before. Having to unlock each progressive skill through use made me get used to the weapon and its skills’ effects as I unlocked each and every one. Then I would switch to a new weapon, unlock those skills, and in the end figure out which one I liked best, because I had adequate time to use every weapon.

With this new system, skills are unlocked instantly. There’s no telling if a new player actually bothered to get all their other weapons by the time a new skill unlocks (and they probably haven’t). Say a player only changes weapons out once they’ve unlocked all five skills. Suddenly—they have all five skills on this new weapon! And no time to get used to them gradually. Isn’t that the “overwhelming” you guys were trying to avoid in the first place…? It makes no sense to me.

HandOfKane.5409:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Why on Tyria would I want to do any of that except the last bit? I have zero interest in counting, or trying to make a vote tally. That’s your problem. Mine is how there are the following issues:

Nope, doesn’t work like that. You were the one who claimed that “the nays are all misinformed and just starting trouble for the heck of it!”, not me. Therefore burden of proof is on you.

I did not claim any such thing. Read back.

A “fair amount of people,” eh. Vague terms are meaningless without actual numbers.

And I’m sure you can give examples of people “knowingly being misinformative,” or “in ignorance of the actual effects and parroting what they heard?”

Sure. Oh wait, that name and shame thing which is against the forum rules. Right. But then, even if I were to provide examples, why do I suspect you’d discount them?

And yet you keep responding. Looks like you care about it more than you think.

No, I just like calling out people on their dolyak droppings.

Examples of this “bad information and terrible ‘polling data’?” And I mean, not in the vein of “I disagree with it, so it’s invalid.”

We already crossed that, and you called it invalid for me not breaking forum rules doing the name and shame thing.

So I’m either disagreeing with it so it’s invalid, or I start accumulating strikes on my account and getting posts deleted . . . which means I didn’t prove anything or I would have posted it.

Hmmm, tough choice. I’m going to have to say . . . fine, if you want to play the debate game and lawyer it up?

I demand proof your claims are as solid as you claim they are about people who no longer play due to NPE, including proof they are in fact invididual owners of accounts with actual names and proof they are not merely some guy running multiple sock puppet accounts posting the same thing. You know, since the burden of proof is on you for that claim you made before.

Until then, stick to speaking for yourself and not trying to stand on the shoulders of potentially nonexistent protesters to make your point more visible.

HandOfKane.5409:

Meh I dunno… I would very much prefer that all players got the choice of the “off button,” regardless of how new they are. It’s much easier for us to help new players if we’re all on the same page (as evidenced my the many posts where people have complained about trying to teach new players about SPs and vistas without knowing that the new player couldn’t see them, for example.)

Of course, the best solution would bee to trash the new progression (except the level-up rewards I guess) and restore the starting zones to how they were before (with the dodge tutorial) Then focus on actually making proper tutorials akin to said dodge tutorial (since even many of the harshest NPE critics agree that the dodge tutorial was the one good thing added).

Yes, of course, option for everybody. If the new player has played previous MMORPGs or simply if he likes to discover things, makes sense that everyone gets “the button”.

Sorry for not being clear.

Edit: typo

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I did not claim any such thing. Read back.

Actually yes you did, you said that many of the posts against the NPE were purposely sporting false information from “ignorance or an ulterior motive.”

OK fine, you didn’t say “all” were, you said “many” were. Happy now?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sure. Oh wait, that name and shame thing which is against the forum rules. Right. But then, even if I were to provide examples, why do I suspect you’d discount them?

Quoting people is naming and shaming? Apparently someone forgot to tell the mods that.

Also, nice “you’re just too dumb to understand!” excuse to avoid having to back up your statements.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

No, I just like calling out people on their dolyak droppings.

Translation: I can’t answer any of your points, so they’re just stupid!

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

We already crossed that, and you called it invalid for me not breaking forum rules doing the name and shame thing.

So I’m either disagreeing with it so it’s invalid, or I start accumulating strikes on my account and getting posts deleted . . . which means I didn’t prove anything or I would have posted it.

Again, quoting posters is against forum rules? I guess you better start reporting them then…I can see lots of infractions coming on by this newfound discovery.

Also, nice deflection.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Hmmm, tough choice. I’m going to have to say . . . fine, if you want to play the debate game and lawyer it up?

I demand proof your claims are as solid as you claim they are about people who no longer play due to NPE, including proof they are in fact invididual owners of accounts with actual names and proof they are not merely some guy running multiple sock puppet accounts posting the same thing. You know, since the burden of proof is on you for that claim you made before.

Until then, stick to speaking for yourself and not trying to stand on the shoulders of potentially nonexistent protesters to make your point more visible.

Since I never claimed to know the exact number of players who stopped playing due to the NPE, that’s not really comparing apples to apples. Try again.

So you really do have nothing. You know you could have just said that from the start and saved us several posts.

Now like I said before, we can get back on topic and give constructive feedback on the NPE, or we can continue to play semantic musical chairs if people who say dislike the NPE really dislike it, with a few “he’s trying to get me banned!!!!” conspiracies thrown in.

Ok guys, stop! Enough. I really would hate to see this thread trashed out due derailing and flaming posts... Read the title again: "NPE Feedback", focus on that...

Anyway...

jovian.2805:

The way to solve the problems that caused this change (iirc, that new players were overwhelmed) would be better tutorials or more helpful NPCs and early-character goals that lead to tutorials. While such things have been implemented, sort of (the dodgeroll trainers, the hint popups), the addition of locking things off to certain levels (often absurdly high) is ridiculous.

Instead of, say, only revealing vistas at a certain level, perhaps have a hint popup when a new player mouses over a vista on the map. Or include a new vista that’s very easy to get to in a new player area, and make a hint pop up once the player views it. Et cetera. Don’t lock it off, because new players will catch on that things are being restricted, and they will feel insulted.

This! Teach people by showing them things and how to learn more about them instead hiding or locking out stuff.

jovian.2805:

The change I hate the most is weapon skills. Really? You don’t think players can handle five skills they get through gradual use of a weapon? That counts as overwhelming, too?

I really, REALLY liked how weapon skills worked before. Having to unlock each progressive skill through use made me get used to the weapon and its skills’ effects as I unlocked each and every one. Then I would switch to a new weapon, unlock those skills, and in the end figure out which one I liked best, because I had adequate time to use every weapon.

With this new system, skills are unlocked instantly. There’s no telling if a new player actually bothered to get all their other weapons by the time a new skill unlocks (and they probably haven’t). Say a player only changes weapons out once they’ve unlocked all five skills. Suddenly--they have all five skills on this new weapon! And no time to get used to them gradually. Isn’t that the "overwhelming" you guys were trying to avoid in the first place...? It makes no sense to me.

Neither to me, although it seems some people liked it *shrugs*.

Anyway, here is a suggestion: why not merging both systems? What about having skills unlocked by use as before but whenever you unlock certain skill for certain weapon it would unlock it for that weapon for all characters? I’m not sure if the skills from the same weapon are the same for different professions (like greatsword #1 for a mesmer is the same for a ranger).

Let me give an example: Let’s say I play a mesmer and just got a new Scepter, I would go and fight to unlock its skills gradually as before. But then, when I unlock its skill #2 it would unlock such skill for all Scepters for all characters (and for that profession in case they are different). The thing is, the unlocking is based on the skill itself instead on levels. Tell me if something is fail with this idea, I don’t know all professions yet.

The problem is that the NPE is misnamed. Its the “New Character Experience.”

Extremely unforgiving to alts, and annoying for people who’ve been playing since Beta and know the ins and outs of every system and skill. Its only slightly less annoying to everybody else, since the game is not that complex, and once you know how boons, conditions, skill combos and such work on your first character, you know how they work in 99% of the game, barring any profession specific stuff.

My suggestion, if the NPE isn’t fully redacted is to make it a thing for new players only, and then only on the FIRST character they create. All subsequent characters would then be governed by the original system, with possibly keeping level up rewards.

Yes, this would allow a brand new player to simply create two characters, abandoning the first one entirely to skip the NPE altogether. But lets face it, GW2 is not that difficult of a game, the NPE is pretty horrible all around, and the ONE place where learning curves might be difficult and need gradual introduction is PvP, and that’s still an instant “all-on” out of the box game mode.

Kaleban.9834:

The problem is that the NPE is misnamed. Its the “New Character Experience.”

Extremely unforgiving to alts, and annoying for people who’ve been playing since Beta and know the ins and outs of every system and skill. Its only slightly less annoying to everybody else, since the game is not that complex, and once you know how boons, conditions, skill combos and such work on your first character, you know how they work in 99% of the game, barring any profession specific stuff.

My suggestion, if the NPE isn’t fully redacted is to make it a thing for new players only, and then only on the FIRST character they create. All subsequent characters would then be governed by the original system, with possibly keeping level up rewards.

Yes, that’s the point.

I would love to see an option, be it through the mastery system, or a checkbox in the menu, to enable veteran players the ability to avoid the NPE or the limitations imposed to low levels.

I’m talking more especificaly about the unlocking of weapon skills.

I understand the mechanic of unlocking each one as a new player progress through the game, but after we reach 80, there’s no point for such thing.

We have a game that thrives on the idea of people playing multiple characters, and it makes no sense that my second, thrid, tenth characters are being told how to dodge, how to heal, or even unable to use attacks I’m already familiar with.

The new player experience is so annoying! It is so dumbed down and underwhelming that it is so hard to make an alt and not use tomes of knowledge.

The pre-NPE was way better. Unlocking trait lines by buying books instead of spending over 100gold or going places you don’t want to go to unlock them was way better.

This NPE hinders veteran players and new players alike. There is no sense of growth when it comes down to just blatant gating,

Anet tried to dumb down for new players , but in reality the old way didn’t even overwhelm anyone except for a few special people. face it some people have lower IQs than others. world fact

There needs to be a revert to how traits and weapon skills are obtained. If not then let people who already have a level 80 be given the option to make an instant lvl 80 free of charge with all traits and skills unlocked.

Update: I got a friend playing since the 75% discount weekend. He’s been busy, so has not really been playing much. He played GW1, so he was very excited to continue a game on the same world. To see the changes over 250 years.

And then he started… Profession mechanics locked out to the point that I had to throw him into arenas so he can get the feel of professions (walk him there, actually, because as a new player, he is obviously treated as too dumb to press a button and teleport to the sPvP lobby). So that he can understand differences on those professions that existed in GW1.

The point to keep in mind is: we’re talking about a new player that has played similar games (MMORPGs) before this game; we are also talking about a person that does not have any special needs. In sum, a normal, “mmo veteran”, human being.

He was looking to find vendor and TP NPCs. He was shocked that he had been locked out because he was too low level (he was level 2). He asked me if it’s always like this and if there is any other option. I told him, yes, showed him how to get on the Mist train and, at my advice, he’s mindlessly grinding until level 30. Because I suggested 30, or otherwise he’d max it to 80 over there (I haven’t got around explaining trait acquisition; I’m thinking of buying him a bottle of scotch so he won’t be too upset).

I dread each question that he may ask next, because all answers I’ll be giving are “you’re level isn’t high enough”.

End game since level 1, eh?

Constructive feedback:
- Leveling up feels like a drag for the most part. I’m not sure if it’s because of easier first levels, or the lack of traits until level 30. (And lack of real choice of traits until level 80)
- Not sure if it’s been fixed, but the arrow that’s supposed to be guiding players often sends them to impossible places where they die. It’s not very useful.
- New players might (and probably will) ignore the dailies until they are high enough level to complete them. I don’t think that there are many newbies who throw themselves into neither PvP nor WvW.
- The first few levels have been set in such a way, that it can confuse players more, than it normally would. Additionally, backtracking all over maps just to get some vistas is probably a bother for most people.
- Unlocking traits might be fun the first time you do these quests, but for 7 other classes, it will probably be a drag for most players. And using skillpoints and gold probably won’t happen, as it’s just not worth it. So players are either forced to do the same content over and over again, or to spend the gold/skillpoints that they really need for something else. (Since most of the game is about getting a lot of gold to play how you like)

At least I hope it’s constructive.

Traits is really the only big issue I see and they’ve been vocal about working on a better solution.

Another thing that IS weird is when someone has completed everything in an area and the game recommends you go find random POIs like it’s a quest that’s going to help you advance your character through the game.

My friend who is brand new to MMOs had this happening to her and it was very confusing for her. You unlock the POI and it instantly tells you to go to some other random POI or Vista. Or you get out of range of the Vista while you’re trying to reach it and it points you to another Vista all the sudden. You start asking, what’s the point of this? They should look into better ways to recommend exploration when main objectives are complete.

Other than that I really enjoy the level up rewards. Skill points could maybe come more gradually instead of in chunks? I really like the other rewards. As an alt-aholic it’s really nice to have progressively better gear given to me for free as I level. Means I have to buy less gear myself as my characters level up.

Mo Mo.1947:

Other than that I really enjoy the level up rewards. Skill points could maybe come more gradually instead of in chunks? I really like the other rewards. As an alt-aholic it’s really nice to have progressively better gear given to me for free as I level. Means I have to buy less gear myself as my characters level up.

1 skill point per level was ideal, yes. And the rewards are mostly eye-candy, I think, for you get a lot of stuff just from killing mobs. And it will just clutter your inventory since you can’t even salvage the stuff. It is a bit pointless, pressing further on the matter, since you can buy cheap, efficient gear from Renowned Hearts after you’ve completed them.

Oh, another thing, at a certain level (I forget which) you get to chose 1 dye out of 3. After 3 characters it’s trash, since the TP is flooded with those particular colors. Might I suggest an unidentified dye instead of 3 predefined choices?

Ashendale.2165:

Mo Mo.1947:

Other than that I really enjoy the level up rewards. Skill points could maybe come more gradually instead of in chunks? I really like the other rewards. As an alt-aholic it’s really nice to have progressively better gear given to me for free as I level. Means I have to buy less gear myself as my characters level up.

1 skill point per level was ideal, yes. And the rewards are mostly eye-candy, I think, for you get a lot of stuff just from killing mobs. And it will just clutter your inventory since you can’t even salvage the stuff. It is a bit pointless, pressing further on the matter, since you can buy cheap, efficient gear from Renowned Hearts after you’ve completed them.

Oh, another thing, at a certain level (I forget which) you get to chose 1 dye out of 3. After 3 characters it’s trash, since the TP is flooded with those particular colors. Might I suggest an unidentified dye instead of 3 predefined choices?

Unided Dyes are worth 50 silver now and it would be out of range of the rewards for such low level characters.

Vayne.8563:

Unided Dyes are worth 50 silver now and it would be out of range of the rewards for such low level characters.

Silly me, of course. That would ruin the prices. How about a random dye from a large pool, instead?

Those prices probably should get ruined.

Ashendale.2165:

Vayne.8563:

Unided Dyes are worth 50 silver now and it would be out of range of the rewards for such low level characters.

Silly me, of course. That would ruin the prices. How about a random dye from a large pool, instead?

Much better idea in my opinion.

You shouldn’t be allowed to add/change things in a game if you don’t play it. Rolling a character and standing around in LA is not enough.

Paul.4081:

You shouldn’t be allowed to add/change things in a game if you don’t play it. Rolling a character and standing around in LA is not enough.

So… what do you mean with it? Even playing a game for a few minutes is already enough to give opinions/suggestions/etc, even though the less you know it, more chances you have to get a reprehension for saying things that you don’t know about, just that.

shadow.6174:

Paul.4081:

You shouldn’t be allowed to add/change things in a game if you don’t play it. Rolling a character and standing around in LA is not enough.

So… what do you mean with it? Even playing a game for a few minutes is already enough to give opinions/suggestions/etc, even though the less you know it, more chances you have to get a reprehension for saying things that you don’t know about, just that.

I think he’s referring to whoever has any weight on decisions that affect the game, such as this one. It took me a bit to come to this interpretation, as the post had no background context I could grasp.

Ashendale.2165:

shadow.6174:

Paul.4081:

You shouldn’t be allowed to add/change things in a game if you don’t play it. Rolling a character and standing around in LA is not enough.

So… what do you mean with it? Even playing a game for a few minutes is already enough to give opinions/suggestions/etc, even though the less you know it, more chances you have to get a reprehension for saying things that you don’t know about, just that.

I think he’s referring to whoever has any weight on decisions that affect the game, such as this one. It took me a bit to come to this interpretation, as the post had no background context I could grasp.

On the surface it makes sense to make such a demand, but once you start thinking about it . . . it makes no sense at all to require it. The people who make the decisions don’t have time while at work to be playing for anywhere near as much (on average) as the majority of players. They certainly can’t be expected to play broadly enough to get a feel for multiple things or deeply enough at one thing to completely understand it from a player’s perspective. And demanding they do it in their off time so they can bring the average up or play more is disrespectful to their private lives.

The fact there are a few who do anyway is a testament to how much they love the game rather than it being their job to do so.

Everyone has a finite amount of time in the day to get things done. That they work for ArenaNet does not magically give them more time to do things.

Ashendale.2165:

shadow.6174:

Paul.4081:

You shouldn’t be allowed to add/change things in a game if you don’t play it. Rolling a character and standing around in LA is not enough.

So… what do you mean with it? Even playing a game for a few minutes is already enough to give opinions/suggestions/etc, even though the less you know it, more chances you have to get a reprehension for saying things that you don’t know about, just that.

I think he’s referring to whoever has any weight on decisions that affect the game, such as this one. It took me a bit to come to this interpretation, as the post had no background context I could grasp.

Oh ok I see it now. Yes, I couldn’t get it at first as I couldn’t find what context it was in.

Everything I could say has probably already been said and said better, but I may as well give my feedback since I’ve given it to plenty of others I play with: The NPE was a waste of time and frankly, I would be ashamed to say I worked on it if I was at Anet. It feels like those that worked on it weren’t familiar with the game, the players or the systems already in place. Or, more likely, they didn’t care. It’s poorly implemented and it broke a lot of things that didn’t need changed or fixed. This seems to be ArenaNet policy these days though (see new new Daily system).

It broke the story, putting things out of order and cutting out sections. It made leveling choppy, slower and unpleasant. It treats you like an idiot. The new trait system is awful, with some traits placed out of your level range or in buggy events with poor guidance on what you need to do to unlock them. It makes you backtrack for exploration elements and does lots of unnecessary level gating that didn’t need to be in the game.

Worst of all, it does a poor job of teaching you what to DO in the game. Most of the new or returning I’ve talked to say that it DOES NOT help them. So far, it seems like the NPE is only good for turning people off of the game.

Yoroiookami.3485:

- The first few levels have been set in such a way, that it can confuse players more, than it normally would. Additionally, backtracking all over maps just to get some vistas is probably a bother for most people.

GeneralFreedom.2540:

The new trait system is awful, with some traits placed out of your level range or in buggy events with poor guidance on what you need to do to unlock them. It makes you backtrack for exploration elements and does lots of unnecessary level gating that didn’t need to be in the game.

(Highlight is mine)

Backtracking… I saw this word twice only in this page and it reminded me of one of the reasons that Angry Joe said that was positive about Guild Wars 2, back at its first months…

http://youtu.be/Ax-_06Acj8Y?t=2m38s:

First off, it eliminates fetch quests and backtracking…

http://angryjoeshow.com/2012/09/guild-wars-2-angry-review/

What you’ll like… […]
A Variety of Quest Activities without Backtracking.
[..]

Wondering what happened with those philosophies…

shadow.6174:

Wondering what happened with those philosophies…

Nothing, really, considering two things.

First, that refers to how Hearts/Events complete – you get them automatically and don’t have to “turn in” to get your rewards. There’s no needing to go back to, say, Beetletun to claim reward for pushing out the centaurs from Turnwatch Redoubt. You just get it.

Secondly, Vistas are unlocked hopefully before more than a couple zones are peeked into. (What was it, inside the first 10 levels?) From my play through an NPE character I had them unlocked before I left the starting half of Wayfarer’s Foothills.

So we’re not talking about having to turn back from pushing world completion through Mount Malestrom for the Vistas. Unless you’re a glutton for punishment trying to do it before level 20.

Also, the dreaded content guide. Took me a while to actually find out that you could turn it off. It was unnerving. “Play how you want! But it’s better if you go over there just because I like ordering you around”.

But this post is actually sort of a positive feedback on the content guide.

Because I’m not forced to take it. I can turn it off. Now be good sports and make an option to fully turn it off. So I can play properly and pretend these dumb changes fell down some stairs or died (slowly) in a fire.

My two priorities in a game are 1) good gameplay, which GW2 does hit on the head with its basic combat system and is also one of the things they haven’t changed much since the original core game, and 2) immersion.

The recent changes, especially the NPE, have broken immersion terribly for me.
Even the whole “you now have skill number 4 unlocked”, while being fairly standard MMO fare, rips immersion apart for me now after having experienced unlocking weapon skills by using the weapons.
I now farm PvP to get Tomes of Knowledge to try to bypass the lack of a smooth, natural-feeling progression in GW2’s current leveling experience, but I feel like I’m missing something by doing that, too.

My Suggestions:

-Give players the option of either unlocking their skills by using the weapon or paying a trainer to unlock them (at a very low cost for beginning players without much money). These could be added to the “wares list” of the existing trainers that sell profession traits.

-Implement a “training grounds” area in each city or starting area with the aforementioned profession trainers, dodge trainers, actually hittable training dummies like we have in Heart of the Mists, and and area where players can see and test out the effects of combo fields with their own finishers, and their own fields with various finishers. This would allow players to learn about their skills and what the combat system has to offer through experience in a controlled environment (which both the NPE and tutorial fail to do thoroughly, and which I assume is part of the goal of the NPE).
One could even add an area for the player to get a feel for their downed skills and a pool for underwater combat. Players could unlock their weapon skills here as well as in the world.

- Revert the traits system to the original one, or else make trait unlocks profession-specific and have what the trait does actually somehow correspond to what you need to do to get it. For instance, one could defeat a fire elemental or Flame Legion shaman for a trait corresponding to burning. For the engineer’s “juggernaut” trait (gives stat boni while using flamethrower), they could kill x number of Flame Legion Igniters.
This would add more variety and help players explore the open world/game more (which I assume was the original goal of the traits system).
(And yes, this really belongs in the trait thread, but I wanted to “bundle” my suggestions together, as this also affects how new players experience the game.)

-Do not level-gate the downed system or underwater combat. As some people have previously pointed out, these are key features of GW2 and should not be locked for new players. The mechanics are not very different from normal combat and gameplay, so I do not see the issue.

-Do not level-gate POIs, Vistas, and Skill Points. The current level gate leads to backtracking for new players (which I believe GW2 wanted to eliminate) and denies new players sources of experience early on.

-Give players their profession skill completely. Why does my engineer have to wait until level 19 for his profession skill number 4 despite the fact that it operates on exactly the same principle as every other of his profession skills? Same goes for the mesmer, and the elementalist.

-Lower level-gates on other things, such as weapon swapping and receiving trait points. Level 7 was okay in the old system, because that was when you’d gotten a “feel” for more than just your starting weapon usually, but I might even go lower.

-I’m all for the loot you get by leveling up (helps me not feel so under-geared when I use Tomes of Knowledge). However, I really like someone else’s suggestion of having these things given by a quaggan, able to be turned back in for extra XP. I would make it some racial representative instead (Quartermaster for Charr or humans, for instance).

-Make level progression feel smoother again, with stat points being added passively as well as skill points, and a trait point every five levels or such. “Batches” feel very jerky, and it creates the artificial feel of “some benevolent deity of progression decided to hand you these”.

Essentially, I liked the old system. The new NPE has done little to correct the lack information contained in the old one. Heck, the information needed could be better more thoroughly delivered by a mandatory NPC dialogue (akin to talking to the scout like after the first PS instance) or by more mails from “Your Herald” giving information than by what the NPE does.

Sorry for the long post.

Rinhara.6450:

[sip]

I can’t agree even more, + 10 to them.

Rinhara.6450:

Essentially, I liked the old system. The new NPE has done little to correct the lack information contained in the old one. Heck, the information needed could be better more thoroughly delivered by a mandatory NPC dialogue (akin to talking to the scout like after the first PS instance) or by more mails from “Your Herald” giving information than by what the NPE does.

After seeing a video where a player goes from lvl 1 to 80 using scrolls to test the NPE I pondered about a thing: the new system just gives out information about features using a popup and sometimes an arrow too, but that arrow is even useless at times (like when talking about Vistas, it just point out the minimap, even when there’s not any Vista icon in it). So the thing is: what’s the difference between giving out these poupups as it is now and a panel with all needed info and occasional popups pointing you to it as it was before? None, both lack stuff (although I thought the old better and intuitive).

Rinhara.6450:

-Do not level-gate POIs, Vistas, and Skill Points. The current level gate leads to backtracking for new players (which I believe GW2 wanted to eliminate) and denies new players sources of experience early on.

This was what I meant when I said about backtracking previously. Although the citation I used was talking about quests (Renown Hearts as we know them) it applies to these things too, seeking vistas or skill points feels like a quest too. And yeah, I believe Anet wanted to get rid of the concept of backtracking when developing the events and hearts, then why bringing that feeling back when going after world completion…

So, since there hasn’t been any response from ArenaNet in a long time I have a question:

Does the ArenaNet staff even care about our opinions here?

I barely post anything on the english board since I’m not very good with that language (and at some point, I gave up on complaining and making suggestions). With the 75% sale I thought “Hey, what was the most enjoyable thing I’ve done since the release of GW2 in summer 2012?” Guess it was to level 8 characters up the max level. I’m one of the ppl who likes to walk the way more than to reach the goal itself.

So when the game price was drastically reduced I decided to create new characters on a new account and play all classes completely different than I did before. Well… shortly after that I was forced to “enjoy” the NPE….

What. Crap. Is. This? Do you hate new players? Do you think new players are dumb or even kittened? You’ve already made this game so freaking easy, even a 65 year old grandma could play it pre NPE. Now I can’t choose what I want to do at what time or place.

@The 10lvl Story scraps: Pre NPE I managed to do quests 8 level above my character. How do you expect NEW players to understand that there is ANY story at all, if they don’t even see it in the beginning of the game? There are enough players who don’t want to pointless level up his character if they don’t even see a reason behind his existance or any connection to the world.

My dad entered my room recently and watched me doing heart quests, he said “That game looks quite good, but why are you doing this?” I answered “I must do 4 more levels until I can play the story again”, then he: “Oh ok. Don’t you forget half of what happened when you can’t play it in one go? Sounds boring.” Both of us play most times RPGs and I’m yet to convince him to try a MMORPG.

What Guild Wars 2 is simply doing right now, is discouraging potential new players and “veteran” players alike to even start the launcher. And the fact that NOONE of the official employees even cares to answer to this thread anymore or to suggest to the others to return the previously great leveling experience to the way it was before. This game is almost dead to my old account. I don’t see any reason to log in since I’ve tried everything that is doable with lvl 80, but that aren’t many things compared to other MMOs.

Why is there no reaction at all? Why don’t you care about how the people feel who stayed with you for over two years? Thats just heartless and makes me really sad!

I’ve come to realize that I hate the pop-up windows. Not just the NPE leveling windows, but all of them by association. There are too many and why do I have to click ‘accept’ on a screen when I earn a bouncy chest if there is no choice for me to make? It seems pointless and they just become an obstacle for me.

I get it when there is a choice to be made, sure, fine. Heart rewards? OK, but they are so big and annoying, but OK. Silverwastes? yeah yeah, I got a shovel and crests. Again. It just gets annoying.

btw – is there a keyboard shortcut I don’t know about to shut down these windows without clicking?

The NPE is garbage as either a tutorial or a streamlining of the experience. I make systems for a living – this is trash and whomever made it should never be allowed to make anything other people will have to use ever again.

Why so salty? Because I’ve tried my best to make sense of it.

There is none to make. It’s all arbitrary changes that make sense only in the context of presuming then to have been made by somebody that either hated the game or never played it and had no intention of ever playing it.

Trying to explain to new players why they can’t do X, Y or Z or even look at UI pane 1 until level XX is painful. I feel like I’m attempting to explain Scientology with a straight face to somebody.

Its trash. The trait system is also trash.

It makes me about near want to flip a table to know that people got paid to design these systems. If I did my job as poorly as game devs seem to think they should do theirs, we’d be calling it a success when only 75% of all airplanes fell out of the sky after 3-6 months of use.

But I suppose they’re not accustomed to actually having standards or being held accountable for terminally flawed systems since nobody’s actually got their lives on the line over whether anything they make even works or doesn’t.

Fricken scrubs. I think I’m sincerely jealous of how flagrantly incompetent they get to be and it’s just business as usual.

Guess it’s also why devs are often treated like expendable garbage by studios and publishers too though. They’ve got the industry they’ve aspired to and often enough deserve, when they’re apparently happy to stick their customers with easily fixed garbage they just can’t be bothered to fix.

naiasonod.9265:

[sic]

After reading your post I had the urge to bawl while hugging you while stabbing these people in the eye with a mechanical pencil.

I feel like printing your post on a stone slab and bashing them in the head with it.

My guildies were talking about the expansion and the new profession, randomly asking if people were thinking of leveling one. I am not touching a new character with a 10 foot pole until the trait, leveling and personal story system are fixed. And by fixed, I mean either back as they were, or with a turn off button.

They weren’t even in a state that would warrant the amount and “quality” of these changes.

Vileste.7148:

[sic]

The popup are intrusive and uncalled for. I did not want the kitten system for my first character, and I sure as hell don’t want it for any that would come after.

As for the example you’ve given, I guess I wouldn’t mind a way to simplify those popups. Why so much grandeur? Are they supposed to make me feel like I saved the world each time I successfully escort a kitten dolyak?

Well, it taught me to “enjoy” EotM for levelling. Should probably do the first bit of the personal story for the key some day too.

Shaaba.5672:

I’ve come to realize that I hate the pop-up windows. Not just the NPE leveling windows, but all of them by association. There are too many and why do I have to click ‘accept’ on a screen when I earn a bouncy chest if there is no choice for me to make? It seems pointless and they just become an obstacle for me.

I get it when there is a choice to be made, sure, fine. Heart rewards? OK, but they are so big and annoying, but OK. Silverwastes? yeah yeah, I got a shovel and crests. Again. It just gets annoying.

btw – is there a keyboard shortcut I don’t know about to shut down these windows without clicking?

Good point. Some of those popup windows are useless and obtrusive. What’s the point of having a popup showing you got 1 item with only Accept? Can you even not accept it? No, if you ignore it a chest will keep blinking in the corner asking you to accept it or accept it. Oh some of them can’t even be ignored though (e.g. Silverwastes event completion). Why not giving those as normal loot (directly in the inventory) and just showing a text telling you that you got a reward? Also doesn’t the right side of screen show you the items you got, clearly notable? If no choices to make then no reasons for a popup with just an accept.

Ok you could say: what if inventory is full and I can’t get the items yet? Well then make it as a chest like now but when clicking it the items go directly to inventory, if it’s full then the chest stays on the screen.

And afaik there’s no shortcut to accept it, but you can hit Esc to close some of them (chest will stay in screen if you do so).

Ashendale.2165:

naiasonod.9265:

[sic]

After reading your post I had the urge to bawl while hugging you while stabbing these people in the eye with a mechanical pencil.

I feel like printing your post on a stone slab and bashing them in the head with it.

Can’t stop chuckling at this one, dude. Cute, man.

You just made me realize something.

The whole thing that bothers me about this NPE is a sense that the game has changed direction that made me both sad and alarmed. It is a sign where the original GW2 vision statement is starting to fade, and monetization is rising.

In the last week or so I had been reading up on what happened to SoE as it was sold to an investment company that is reputed to be a shell-and-sell entity, and the looming demise to all SoE games.

I remembered the many years of EQ’s decline. A lot of it came from management’s monetization schemes. As it stands right now, I can see GW2’s monetization, and it is not nearly as bad as EQ’s, but…

It is just sad to see monetization is detrimental to the game’s original vision.

I think GW2 is under a lot of pressure to drive revenue up. It may very well succeed in its monetization. Time will tell. But I do feel there are many other ways to generate revenue as I evaluate this game today. Sadly those are not being taken. Oh well. Maybe the next game will have it.

I’m having fun in this game as a bit player, one that you see running around newbie zones. I am happy because players like me are no longer a targeted playerbase by this game.

In the past I used to feel a compulsion to donate to the game, like buying a ton of stuff that I don’t really need. Now I’m happily letting their target player base pay the bills. I’m sure NCSoft, in its many spreadsheets, already figured out their monetization to derive revenue from their targeted player base, and it is the one I am being forced to accept anyway.

Hope you have fun doing whatever that is fun for you.

After many years of EQ, in the end I found the smartest players there were the ones that belonged to a tiny RP guild that spent all their time in newbie zones. I was dumb, man! Was I dumb!

As someone who just returned to the game: Why?

I’ve had this game for what, 5, 6 months now and the experience just feels horrible, especially when making alts. The sense of wonder in the world is placed with little “go here” glowing icons on the map that are gated by level, encouraging backtracking which GW2 essentially eliminated before this update. Progressing in the story is gated now, opposed to having the challenge of taking something on that was a level above you or few, and going back to take it on if it proved too much. SKILLS, instead of being progressive and fun with each weapon, are now gated by level and automatically given to you regardless if you’ve used the weapon or not before. Everything feels like an extended tutorial that’s been streamlined so the average toddler can pick up the game.

Would you like some feedback? Next time, please don’t fix what isn’t broken. The little features that made me love the game are now gone, and that saddens me to no end since it’s difficult now to view GW2 differently from the common MMO and these changes are inclined to make me leave once more.

Kaleban.9834:

The problem is that the NPE is misnamed. Its the “New Character Experience.”

I’d say NGE probably fits it better for obvious reasons, but yes, that is more accurate.

Vileste.7148:

So, since there hasn’t been any response from ArenaNet in a long time I have a question:

Does the ArenaNet staff even care about our opinions here?

…

Why is there no reaction at all? Why don’t you care about how the people feel who stayed with you for over two years? Thats just heartless and makes me really sad!

It’s Anet’s new idea of dealing with player concerns: just pretend that they don’t exist. Then all of then will just magically go away!

Though what they tend to forget is that many of the players will go away too. SWTOR learned that the hard way.

BlueOcean.5380:

Ashendale.2165:

naiasonod.9265:

[sic]

After reading your post I had the urge to bawl while hugging you while stabbing these people in the eye with a mechanical pencil.

I feel like printing your post on a stone slab and bashing them in the head with it.

Can’t stop chuckling at this one, dude. Cute, man.

To Ashendale:

Ok I’m going to use the word “love”. I loved your statement, and that was why I kept chuckling in admiration of your courage in actually using the word “bawl”. That’s pretty brave for a guy. I had a hard time to even say “cute”. lol. You said well. You pointed out the grief I should be having, but I hadn’t even sensed it yet.

I just read all of your old posts in this thread, and remember clicking “like” on many of them. I realize now you have been wanting to play new alts, but can not stomach the NPE so you can’t do it. You had tried to get friends in to play under NPE, yet they all left after a short time. I can relate in that my old bud left this game upon NPE to play EQ2, which is probably going to shut down.

I watched the GW2 manifesto videos again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E

Guess my first alarm came when devs made all world boss events on a timer. This was a deliberate choice.

NPE sent out even more warnings to us.

Whatever you do, please know I have the utmost respect for you. Take care.

NPE, with its pop-up reward boxes making the game into one of “loot-happy” games that the market is filled with. (chuckles) I guess this is why some of us do not like it.

NPE was not what one would expect with the manifesto.

Just now though, it came to me that NPE is like the corrupted roots sent out by Mordremoth. I’ve been trying to evaluate the HoT expansion. Something about it just reminds me of the Mordremoth. (Can I help it when I keep seeing the videos?) It’s almost symbolic. This game, in the direction it is heading, is already showing signs of Mordremoth taking control.

lol. my analogy of the day. :P

The reason behind all this is marketing. Revenue demands. Idealism needs a strong implementation to keep up with revenue demands. NPE is not such a strong implementation. It’s a patch. It is instead detrimental in the long run to the vision.

So after stopping GW2 for maybe a year…. I bought GW2 for my wife a week ago, and I was over the moon as I thought I may be able to entice her into playing a PC game with me again (she played GW1 ages ago though, but never tried GW2 out yet), and then patched about 7gigs last night…

But that was until I came to the forum to get an idea of the state of the game…

I’ll probably be selling her, unused, copy of the game and will go back to ‘something else’, tyvm. Mainly because I don’t think I’ll be able to stomach making a new char at all… By the looks of it, I’d prefer getting kitten drilled in my head than play GW2 at the moment.

WTH ANet, wth… Are you a bunch of sadists? lol

EDIT: Found another thread where the trait system will be unlocked, which is a relief. What about the NPE system, will we be able to toggle it off (why is it mandatory anyway?)? What the hell drove you to implementing something as draconian and silly in the first place though? And why does it take so long for you to actually acknowledge it?

Cherine.3184:

So after stopping GW2 for maybe a year…. I bought GW2 for my wife a week ago, and I was over the moon as I thought I may be able to entice her into playing a PC game with me again (she played GW1 ages ago though, but never tried GW2 out yet), and then patched about 7gigs last night…

But that was until I came to the forum to get an idea of the state of the game…

I’ll probably be selling her, unused, copy of the game and will go back to ‘something else’, tyvm.

WTH ANet, wth…

EDIT: Found another thread where the trait system will be unlocked, which is a relief. What about the NPE system, will we be able to toggle it off (wth is it mandatory anyway?)? WTH drove you to implementing something as draconian and silly in the first place though? And why does it take 10 MONTHS of constant complaining for you to actually acknowledge it?

There are plenty of people buying and liking the game even with the NPE. The NPE really troubles you for the first 20 levels, but the first 15 of them are sped up to quickly you’re talking a couple of hours of play.

Anyway, I can’t imagine why anyone would judge games based on forum comments. A good percentage of people who commented on the NPE have admitted to never trying it and after that, many try it with completely closed minds.

We see plenty of posts on this site and reddit by new players who are really enjoying the game. Why? because they don’t know the NPE is supposed to be bad.

This is the biggest example of an over-reaction I’ve seen on the forums.

“Anyway, I can’t imagine why anyone would judge games based on forum comments.”

Lol… Really?

So you’ve never based any decision/thing on what someone else thinks? So much for reviews hahaha. It feels like you also need to try stretch your imagination and try some lateral thinking as there are MANY reasons why “anyone would judge games based on forum comments.” My opinion btw, not a statement of fact.

But you know what, I’ll give it a go, show her the ropes on my account and maybe even go as far as I can w/o violating any ANet guidelines and getting banned, and then decide… If it’s still poop, like the majority of players are saying it is (as opposed to you, and I’ve seen a lot of your recent posts (seems like you’re an Anet employee btw but I digress)), I’ll go play something else and spend my money elsewhere.

EDIT: You also seem to always skirt around the fact that this system is/was unilaterally handed down to all, regardless of how experienced we are. Handing down a mandatory system like this is something you do if you want to alienate older players and I’ve seen it happen enough times in my experience of gaming, and also where I work.

And I’m sure that even you can’t deny, where there’s smoke, there’s a fire…

Anyway I’m out, I didn’t come here to change my mind or debate, I came here to weigh in and add my voice to the growing masses of displeased gamers. Hope this mess gets resolved in a timely fashion and the game gets restored to it’s former, ‘choose how you want to play the game’, glory.

Cherine.3184:

So after stopping GW2 for maybe a year…. I bought GW2 for my wife a week ago, and I was over the moon as I thought I may be able to entice her into playing a PC game with me again (she played GW1 ages ago though, but never tried GW2 out yet), and then patched about 7gigs last night…

But that was until I came to the forum to get an idea of the state of the game…

I’ll probably be selling her, unused, copy of the game and will go back to ‘something else’, tyvm. Mainly because I don’t think I’ll be able to stomach making a new char at all… By the looks of it, I’d prefer getting kitten drilled in my head than play GW2 at the moment.

WTH ANet, wth… Are you a bunch of sadists? lol

EDIT: Found another thread where the trait system will be unlocked, which is a relief. What about the NPE system, will we be able to toggle it off (why is it mandatory anyway?)? What the hell drove you to implementing something as draconian and silly in the first place though? And why does it take so long for you to actually acknowledge it?

I am one of those who dislikes the NPE. even so I suggest that you let your wife try it out for herself. Dont do her the disservice of making decisions for her based on people on the forums.

Cherine.3184:

“Anyway, I can’t imagine why anyone would judge games based on forum comments.”

Lol… Really?

So you’ve never based any decision/thing on what someone else thinks? So much for reviews hahaha. It feels like you also need to try stretch your imagination and try some lateral thinking as there are MANY reasons why “anyone would judge games based on forum comments.” My opinion btw, not a statement of fact.

But you know what, I’ll give it a go, show her the ropes on my account and maybe even go as far as I can w/o violating any ANet guidelines and getting banned, and then decide… If it’s still poop, like the majority of players are saying it is (as opposed to you, and I’ve seen a lot of your recent posts (seems like you’re an Anet employee btw but I digress)), I’ll go play something else and spend my money elsewhere.

MMO forums are known to be negative. They’re known to exaagerate problems. I might go to a professional reviewer that I know I like and listen to that opinion, but I’ve seen too many views from too many people that are completely contrary to my own experience.

For example, Big Brother is a massively popular TV show, but it’s not my type of TV show.

If you go to reddit, you’d probably get a slightly more realistic idea of what people think that the forums. Because fans can upvote and downvote there.

So yes, some problems will come up, but the overall response on reddit is more reasonable than here.

Vayne, please, stop. Enough with that. Please focus on the subject of this thread and not in how people express their opinion.

Stop being a shill! And what has BB got to do with anything? It’s a POS, and yes while it was popular, it doesn’t mean that it was good at all… (And I personally disliked it a lot too, amongst other things it just showed off and rewarded negative/backstabbing behavior.)

“the overall response on reddit is more reasonable than here.”

I’ve been there and had a good look around, and is why I actually came here… The feeling seems to be much of the same as I’ve seen here. But if it’s you saying otherwise, it must be true hey?

But as I said, I’ll go try it out myself and see what it’s all about – with an open mind, I might add. If it’s all nice and playable I’ll be pleasantly surprised! But if not and I don’t have the freedom to play as I once used to, I’ll be validated for feeling righteous indignation when I see/read how things that were never broken have been ‘fixed’.

And please, you really don’t need to speak for the masses as they are speaking for themselves, if you care to look around. (RE: seen too many views from too many people that are completely contrary to my own experience.)

At the end of the day, and you can’t even deny this, where there is smoke, there is fire.

@Ashen: I won’t and don’t decide for her. But I will be expected to play with her and lvl a new char as she hasn’t got one, so I will experience this NPE non-sense too. And if I don’t play, she probably won’t either as I’m the one trying to get her to play a PC game with me as opposed to watching series.

Lol/oops – double post

Cherine.3184:

Lol/oops – double post

Triple now lol

Cherine.3184:

@Ashen: I won’t and don’t decide for her. But I will be expected to play with her and lvl a new char as she hasn’t got one, so I will experience this NPE non-sense too. And if I don’t play, she probably won’t either as I’m the one trying to get her to play a PC game with me as opposed to watching series.

It’s not awful. I’ve leveled 4 chars to level 20 on an alt account. Of course I know how to get around some things, like how to go to PvP to unlock weapon switch early, but I’m not seeing all the things that’s upsetting so many others. Or else I see them but it’s not something that bothers me. I did have to backtrack to get skill points that showed up after i had already gone past them. But new chars level pretty fast and the hinderances don’t last long.

If you aren’t negative about the way it is different, it’s quite possible your wife won’t even notice or it might not bother her if she does.