Guild Wars 2

DaveyC.4398:

I think the point I am trying to make with this post is that most people who are moaning about the changes are not new to MMOs or GW2 and should think about what it would be like to start this game with no understanding of the mechanics or MMOs in general.

You are not a new player and cannot appreciate the view of a new user. This patch was not tailored to veterans, it was aimed at improvements to people who are new.

Except that new characters created by veterans also have to deal with the same restrictions and gating, so whether the NPE was made for new players or vets is irrelevant in terms of giving feedback. As someone else pointed out, you’re only new once.

Jana.6831:

Bellizare.5816:

Well, for me the stats on the gear are all wrong, and I can’t salvage or sell it, so…..

It’s always one soldier’s/knights, one condition and one zerker/assassins type from which you can chose, so all types.

All the pieces I saw were condi dmg.

Leveling a Necro BTW.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Level_rewards

HandOfKane.5409:

DaveyC.4398:

I think the point I am trying to make with this post is that most people who are moaning about the changes are not new to MMOs or GW2 and should think about what it would be like to start this game with no understanding of the mechanics or MMOs in general.

You are not a new player and cannot appreciate the view of a new user. This patch was not tailored to veterans, it was aimed at improvements to people who are new.

Except that new characters created by veterans also have to deal with the same restrictions and gating, so whether the NPE was made for new players or vets is irrelevant in terms of giving feedback. As someone else pointed out, you’re only new once.

Except that’s not 100% true. Many of the things “gated” by new players can be done by vets, so I’m not 100% sure what your point is. I mean anyone can dodge, use the trading post, go to SPvP, get vistas and points of interest, even get skill points now. It takes you exactly one level longer now to unlock your elite.

Bellizare.5816:

Jana.6831:

Bellizare.5816:

Well, for me the stats on the gear are all wrong, and I can’t salvage or sell it, so…..

It’s always one soldier’s/knights, one condition and one zerker/assassins type from which you can chose, so all types.

All the pieces I saw were condi dmg.

Leveling a Necro BTW.

Leveled a necro as well and it was always the three choices – I went always for zerker/assassins.
Edit: Ok, saw your second post; after level 15 you can chose between the three stats, before it’s only one stat anyway, I guess.

Vayne.8563:

HandOfKane.5409:

DaveyC.4398:

I think the point I am trying to make with this post is that most people who are moaning about the changes are not new to MMOs or GW2 and should think about what it would be like to start this game with no understanding of the mechanics or MMOs in general.

You are not a new player and cannot appreciate the view of a new user. This patch was not tailored to veterans, it was aimed at improvements to people who are new.

Except that new characters created by veterans also have to deal with the same restrictions and gating, so whether the NPE was made for new players or vets is irrelevant in terms of giving feedback. As someone else pointed out, you’re only new once.

Except that’s not 100% true. Many of the things “gated” by new players can be done by vets, so I’m not 100% sure what your point is. I mean anyone can dodge, use the trading post, go to SPvP, get vistas and points of interest, even get skill points now. It takes you exactly one level longer now to unlock your elite.

It means exactly what I said. Never said anything about dodging, the TP, SPvP, etc. I was talking about weapon skills, PS, dumbed down starting zones, profession mechanics, no TP NPCs in starting zones, weapon swapping and offhand weapons, burst leveling, etc. Surely you didn’t think skill points and diving goggles were the only things gated?

HandOfKane.5409:

Actually yes, it is 100% true. It means exactly what I said. Never said anything about dodging, the TP, SPvP, etc. I was talking about weapon skills, PS, dumbed down starting zones, profession mechanics, burst leveling, etc. Surely you didn’t think skill points and diving goggles were the only things gated?

Alright, since I’m already here (I should not, really, spending way too much time on the forums ) anyway: A friend of mine once complained that I have to kill EVERYTHING – and yeah, he’s right, I usually kill everything, sometimes not but that’s unusual – it took me ages to get all the weapon skills, so I wonder how you guys miss out on them if you’re surely not killing as many mobs as I do. That’s kind of an honest but rhetorical question – I can’t believe that any veteran is restricted by the level gated weapon skills, sorry.

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

HandOfKane.5409:

DaveyC.4398:

I think the point I am trying to make with this post is that most people who are moaning about the changes are not new to MMOs or GW2 and should think about what it would be like to start this game with no understanding of the mechanics or MMOs in general.

You are not a new player and cannot appreciate the view of a new user. This patch was not tailored to veterans, it was aimed at improvements to people who are new.

Except that new characters created by veterans also have to deal with the same restrictions and gating, so whether the NPE was made for new players or vets is irrelevant in terms of giving feedback. As someone else pointed out, you’re only new once.

Except that’s not 100% true. Many of the things “gated” by new players can be done by vets, so I’m not 100% sure what your point is. I mean anyone can dodge, use the trading post, go to SPvP, get vistas and points of interest, even get skill points now. It takes you exactly one level longer now to unlock your elite.

It means exactly what I said. Never said anything about dodging, the TP, SPvP, etc. I was talking about weapon skills, PS, dumbed down starting zones, profession mechanics, no TP NPCs in starting zones, weapon swapping and offhand weapons, burst leveling, etc. Surely you didn’t think skill points and diving goggles were the only things gated?

But many of those things were always gated. People talk about weapon swapping as if they were never gated, but it was. People talk about skill unlocks being gated now, but they were always gated. So yeah, I don’t think that’s what you’re talking about.

And since the first 15 levels are actually faster now than before, the change in gating isn’t all that much to comment on. It might…might…be a bit more inconvenient. But that’s all it is.

People look at a number like weapon swapping used to be available at level 7. Now you got to wait all the way to level 15. I get to level 15 in almost the same time I used to get to level 7.

Vayne.8563:

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

HandOfKane.5409:

DaveyC.4398:

I think the point I am trying to make with this post is that most people who are moaning about the changes are not new to MMOs or GW2 and should think about what it would be like to start this game with no understanding of the mechanics or MMOs in general.

You are not a new player and cannot appreciate the view of a new user. This patch was not tailored to veterans, it was aimed at improvements to people who are new.

Except that new characters created by veterans also have to deal with the same restrictions and gating, so whether the NPE was made for new players or vets is irrelevant in terms of giving feedback. As someone else pointed out, you’re only new once.

Except that’s not 100% true. Many of the things “gated” by new players can be done by vets, so I’m not 100% sure what your point is. I mean anyone can dodge, use the trading post, go to SPvP, get vistas and points of interest, even get skill points now. It takes you exactly one level longer now to unlock your elite.

It means exactly what I said. Never said anything about dodging, the TP, SPvP, etc. I was talking about weapon skills, PS, dumbed down starting zones, profession mechanics, no TP NPCs in starting zones, weapon swapping and offhand weapons, burst leveling, etc. Surely you didn’t think skill points and diving goggles were the only things gated?

But many of those things were always gated. People talk about weapon swapping as if they were never gated, but it was. People talk about skill unlocks being gated now, but they were always gated. So yeah, I don’t think that’s what you’re talking about.

And since the first 15 levels are actually faster now than before, the change in gating isn’t all that much to comment on. It might…might…be a bit more inconvenient. But that’s all it is.

People look at a number like weapon swapping used to be available at level 7. Now you got to wait all the way to level 15. I get to level 15 in almost the same time I used to get to level 7.

Hardly, since they were unlocked much earlier and the content was exciting enough to get there without much notice. You can hardly say that something gated at lvl 5 is exactly the same as something gated at lvl 13, can you?

And well, the speed of leveling really isn’t the point. If the content isn’t engaging, then well, why should we waste the time trying to level up? Many other people have pointed out that they have gotten very bored now around level 5ish, since there is nothing to do or everything has been dumbed down to obscurity.

These kinds of things have been explained to you over and over here. The fact that you choose to pretend that they don’t exist is well….rather telling.

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

HandOfKane.5409:

DaveyC.4398:

I think the point I am trying to make with this post is that most people who are moaning about the changes are not new to MMOs or GW2 and should think about what it would be like to start this game with no understanding of the mechanics or MMOs in general.

You are not a new player and cannot appreciate the view of a new user. This patch was not tailored to veterans, it was aimed at improvements to people who are new.

Except that new characters created by veterans also have to deal with the same restrictions and gating, so whether the NPE was made for new players or vets is irrelevant in terms of giving feedback. As someone else pointed out, you’re only new once.

Except that’s not 100% true. Many of the things “gated” by new players can be done by vets, so I’m not 100% sure what your point is. I mean anyone can dodge, use the trading post, go to SPvP, get vistas and points of interest, even get skill points now. It takes you exactly one level longer now to unlock your elite.

It means exactly what I said. Never said anything about dodging, the TP, SPvP, etc. I was talking about weapon skills, PS, dumbed down starting zones, profession mechanics, no TP NPCs in starting zones, weapon swapping and offhand weapons, burst leveling, etc. Surely you didn’t think skill points and diving goggles were the only things gated?

But many of those things were always gated. People talk about weapon swapping as if they were never gated, but it was. People talk about skill unlocks being gated now, but they were always gated. So yeah, I don’t think that’s what you’re talking about.

And since the first 15 levels are actually faster now than before, the change in gating isn’t all that much to comment on. It might…might…be a bit more inconvenient. But that’s all it is.

People look at a number like weapon swapping used to be available at level 7. Now you got to wait all the way to level 15. I get to level 15 in almost the same time I used to get to level 7.

Hardly, since they were unlocked much earlier and the content was exciting enough to get there without much notice. You can hardly say that something gated at lvl 5 is exactly the same as something gated at lvl 13, can you?

And well, the speed of leveling really isn’t the point. If the content isn’t engaging, then well, why should we waste the time trying to level up? Many other people have pointed out that they have gotten very bored now around level 5ish, since there is nothing to do or everything has been dumbed down to obscurity.

These kinds of things have been explained to you over and over here. The fact that you choose to pretend that they don’t exist is well….rather telling.

Being gated is one thing, exciting content is another. I don’t particularly find the content less “exciting”. What you’re really complaining about is you can’t swap weapons to kill 10th level creatures your fighting, which makes the game, I guess, more exciting.

And yes time it takes means everything. If I used to have my weapon swap unlocked after I played for an hour and a half and now I have my weapon swap unlocked when I play for an hour and forty minutes (just estimates but that’s about what it worked out for me), I’d say it’s a mountain out of a mole hill.

In other words, I’m getting them at roughly the same time, but not the same level. And you keep ignoring that.

Isn’t it funny how you think that doesn’t matter, when an arbitrary level that has no real meaning in the world does. People are blinded by a meaningless number. The only thing that was ever really important was time.

Jana.6831:

HandOfKane.5409:

Actually yes, it is 100% true. It means exactly what I said. Never said anything about dodging, the TP, SPvP, etc. I was talking about weapon skills, PS, dumbed down starting zones, profession mechanics, burst leveling, etc. Surely you didn’t think skill points and diving goggles were the only things gated?

Alright, since I’m already here (I should not, really, spending way too much time on the forums ) anyway: A friend of mine once complained that I have to kill EVERYTHING – and yeah, he’s right, I usually kill everything, sometimes not but that’s unusual – it took me ages to get all the weapon skills, so I wonder how you guys miss out on them if you’re surely not killing as many mobs as I do. That’s kind of an honest but rhetorical question – I can’t believe that any veteran is restricted by the level gated weapon skills, sorry.

You realize that I mentioned a lot more than just the weapon skills, right?

And it’s been pointed out a lot that this new system often ends up being even more confusing, since if I level to lvl 5 using just one weapon and decide to try out a different one, I’m now confronted with 5 new skills that I’ve never seen before. How is that any less confusing that the way it was before?

And anyway, that wasn’t even the point. The point was that the OP stated that since the NPE was made for new players, so vets can’t complain about it. I was pointing out that since the NPE in most cases doesn’t differentiate between new characters created by vets and those created by new players, vets have every reason to complain.

HandOfKane.5409:

Jana.6831:

HandOfKane.5409:

Actually yes, it is 100% true. It means exactly what I said. Never said anything about dodging, the TP, SPvP, etc. I was talking about weapon skills, PS, dumbed down starting zones, profession mechanics, burst leveling, etc. Surely you didn’t think skill points and diving goggles were the only things gated?

Alright, since I’m already here (I should not, really, spending way too much time on the forums ) anyway: A friend of mine once complained that I have to kill EVERYTHING – and yeah, he’s right, I usually kill everything, sometimes not but that’s unusual – it took me ages to get all the weapon skills, so I wonder how you guys miss out on them if you’re surely not killing as many mobs as I do. That’s kind of an honest but rhetorical question – I can’t believe that any veteran is restricted by the level gated weapon skills, sorry.

You realize that I mentioned a lot more than just the weapon skills, right?

And it’s been pointed out a lot that this new system often ends up being even more confusing, since if I level to lvl 5 using just one weapon and decide to try out a different one, I’m now confronted with 5 new skills that I’ve never seen before. How is that any less confusing that the way it was before?

And anyway, that wasn’t even the point. The point was that the OP stated that since the NPE was made for new players, so vets can’t complain about it. I was pointing out that since the NPE in most cases doesn’t differentiate between new characters created by vets and those created by new players, vets have every reason to complain.

Vets do have reason to complain… but saying things like leveling gating is bad, when most of that stuff was always level gated is a red herring. And if you get to it faster it’s a double red herring.

It’s a mountain out of a molehill. And that’s all it will ever be.

NPE isn’t all that bad, the only horrible thing about leveling is not having any traits. They’re all locked behind ridiculous things like map completion and group events, forcing me to do stuff I hate just to unlock them. And yes, I realize you can buy them, but considering it’s an alt and a new character it’s quite annoying to get the skillpoints necessary to buy all of them.

I started a new approach (for myself) for leveling, ignore the personal story from level 20 on wards until 80, trash everything level (gifts?) ArenaNet so generously give you except for craft materials and keys, everything else directly to the bin and craft your own armor every 10 levels. currently L63 I hardly notice the level gating of anything.

p.s – I started trashing the armor bits arenanet hand out because I refused to be mocked, I spent a lot of time crafting my own armor, and here you are handing me something better, how dare you! lol.

nb: ArenaNet you should be encouraging me to craft.

Matt.8264:

NPE isn’t all that bad, the only horrible thing about leveling is not having any traits. They’re all locked behind ridiculous things like map completion and group events, forcing me to do stuff I hate just to unlock them. And yes, I realize you can buy them, but considering it’s an alt and a new character it’s quite annoying to get the skillpoints necessary to buy all of them.

I don’t count the trait changes as part of the NPE because we were complaining about that long before the NPE came out. I see traits as a separate issue and yes, I don’t like them at all.

Vayne.8563:

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

HandOfKane.5409:

DaveyC.4398:

I think the point I am trying to make with this post is that most people who are moaning about the changes are not new to MMOs or GW2 and should think about what it would be like to start this game with no understanding of the mechanics or MMOs in general.

You are not a new player and cannot appreciate the view of a new user. This patch was not tailored to veterans, it was aimed at improvements to people who are new.

Except that new characters created by veterans also have to deal with the same restrictions and gating, so whether the NPE was made for new players or vets is irrelevant in terms of giving feedback. As someone else pointed out, you’re only new once.

Except that’s not 100% true. Many of the things “gated” by new players can be done by vets, so I’m not 100% sure what your point is. I mean anyone can dodge, use the trading post, go to SPvP, get vistas and points of interest, even get skill points now. It takes you exactly one level longer now to unlock your elite.

It means exactly what I said. Never said anything about dodging, the TP, SPvP, etc. I was talking about weapon skills, PS, dumbed down starting zones, profession mechanics, no TP NPCs in starting zones, weapon swapping and offhand weapons, burst leveling, etc. Surely you didn’t think skill points and diving goggles were the only things gated?

But many of those things were always gated. People talk about weapon swapping as if they were never gated, but it was. People talk about skill unlocks being gated now, but they were always gated. So yeah, I don’t think that’s what you’re talking about.

And since the first 15 levels are actually faster now than before, the change in gating isn’t all that much to comment on. It might…might…be a bit more inconvenient. But that’s all it is.

People look at a number like weapon swapping used to be available at level 7. Now you got to wait all the way to level 15. I get to level 15 in almost the same time I used to get to level 7.

Hardly, since they were unlocked much earlier and the content was exciting enough to get there without much notice. You can hardly say that something gated at lvl 5 is exactly the same as something gated at lvl 13, can you?

And well, the speed of leveling really isn’t the point. If the content isn’t engaging, then well, why should we waste the time trying to level up? Many other people have pointed out that they have gotten very bored now around level 5ish, since there is nothing to do or everything has been dumbed down to obscurity.

These kinds of things have been explained to you over and over here. The fact that you choose to pretend that they don’t exist is well….rather telling.

Being gated is one thing, exciting content is another. I don’t particularly find the content less “exciting”. What you’re really complaining about is you can’t swap weapons to kill 10th level creatures your fighting, which makes the game, I guess, more exciting.

And yes time it takes means everything. If I used to have my weapon swap unlocked after I played for an hour and a half and now I have my weapon swap unlocked when I play for an hour and forty minutes (just estimates but that’s about what it worked out for me), I’d say it’s a mountain out of a mole hill.

In other words, I’m getting them at roughly the same time, but not the same level. And you keep ignoring that.

Isn’t it funny how you think that doesn’t matter, when an arbitrary level that has no real meaning in the world does. People are blinded by a meaningless number. The only thing that was ever really important was time.

Several people seem to disagree with you on the content not being less exciting. And for many other reasons than just weapon swapping. BTW, if something says “you will unlock this feature at level x” then that “arbitrary level” does seem to have “real meaning” and is not a “meaningless number,” do you think?

As for time, if there is an amusement park ride that I absolutely love to death, and it becomes not only shorter but far less exciting, I don’t think I will end up liking it that much, right?

Nothing I’m saying here isn’t something that other people have explained to you over and over and over again. If you choose to ignore them, then that’s not my problem (you know, that whole “leading a horse to water” concept)

Vayne.8563:

HandOfKane.5409:

Jana.6831:

HandOfKane.5409:

Actually yes, it is 100% true. It means exactly what I said. Never said anything about dodging, the TP, SPvP, etc. I was talking about weapon skills, PS, dumbed down starting zones, profession mechanics, burst leveling, etc. Surely you didn’t think skill points and diving goggles were the only things gated?

Alright, since I’m already here (I should not, really, spending way too much time on the forums ) anyway: A friend of mine once complained that I have to kill EVERYTHING – and yeah, he’s right, I usually kill everything, sometimes not but that’s unusual – it took me ages to get all the weapon skills, so I wonder how you guys miss out on them if you’re surely not killing as many mobs as I do. That’s kind of an honest but rhetorical question – I can’t believe that any veteran is restricted by the level gated weapon skills, sorry.

You realize that I mentioned a lot more than just the weapon skills, right?

And it’s been pointed out a lot that this new system often ends up being even more confusing, since if I level to lvl 5 using just one weapon and decide to try out a different one, I’m now confronted with 5 new skills that I’ve never seen before. How is that any less confusing that the way it was before?

And anyway, that wasn’t even the point. The point was that the OP stated that since the NPE was made for new players, so vets can’t complain about it. I was pointing out that since the NPE in most cases doesn’t differentiate between new characters created by vets and those created by new players, vets have every reason to complain.

Vets do have reason to complain… but saying things like leveling gating is bad, when most of that stuff was always level gated is a red herring. And if you get to it faster it’s a double red herring.

It’s a mountain out of a molehill. And that’s all it will ever be.

Like I said, comparing something level gated at lvl 5 to something gated at lvl 13, for example, isn’t really an apples to apples comparison. If Anet changed all skills to unlock at level 80 somehow, I hardly think people would say “Well, skills were previously gated at 5, 10, 20, and 30, so having them all unlock at 80 is peachy fine.” Seems that’s actually the “red herring” that you’re talking about.

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

HandOfKane.5409:

Jana.6831:

HandOfKane.5409:

Actually yes, it is 100% true. It means exactly what I said. Never said anything about dodging, the TP, SPvP, etc. I was talking about weapon skills, PS, dumbed down starting zones, profession mechanics, burst leveling, etc. Surely you didn’t think skill points and diving goggles were the only things gated?

Alright, since I’m already here (I should not, really, spending way too much time on the forums ) anyway: A friend of mine once complained that I have to kill EVERYTHING – and yeah, he’s right, I usually kill everything, sometimes not but that’s unusual – it took me ages to get all the weapon skills, so I wonder how you guys miss out on them if you’re surely not killing as many mobs as I do. That’s kind of an honest but rhetorical question – I can’t believe that any veteran is restricted by the level gated weapon skills, sorry.

You realize that I mentioned a lot more than just the weapon skills, right?

And it’s been pointed out a lot that this new system often ends up being even more confusing, since if I level to lvl 5 using just one weapon and decide to try out a different one, I’m now confronted with 5 new skills that I’ve never seen before. How is that any less confusing that the way it was before?

And anyway, that wasn’t even the point. The point was that the OP stated that since the NPE was made for new players, so vets can’t complain about it. I was pointing out that since the NPE in most cases doesn’t differentiate between new characters created by vets and those created by new players, vets have every reason to complain.

Vets do have reason to complain… but saying things like leveling gating is bad, when most of that stuff was always level gated is a red herring. And if you get to it faster it’s a double red herring.

It’s a mountain out of a molehill. And that’s all it will ever be.

Like I said, comparing something level gated at lvl 5 to something gated at lvl 13, for example, isn’t really an apples to apples comparison. Seems that’s actually the “red herring” that you’re talking about.

I get to level 15 in an hour and a half. Yes several people DO disagree with me. You’re clearly ignoring the people who agree with me. I’m not so sure what percentage is what anymore.

Most of the complaining about the NPE stopped after Anet made changes to it. Most people seemed relatively content after that.

Are there still complaints? Sure. There are also complaints about no mounts, no open world PvE, and Keg Brawl…so yeah.

HandOfKane.5409:

You realize that I mentioned a lot more than just the weapon skills, right?

And it’s been pointed out a lot that this new system often ends up being even more confusing, since if I level to lvl 5 using just one weapon and decide to try out a different one, I’m now confronted with 5 new skills that I’ve never seen before. How is that any less confusing that the way it was before?

And anyway, that wasn’t even the point. The point was that the OP stated that since the NPE was made for new players, so vets can’t complain about it. I was pointing out that since the NPE in most cases doesn’t differentiate between new characters created by vets and those created by new players, vets have every reason to complain.

Actually the gates weaponskills was the thing I wanted to comment on as it confuses me every time when someone complains about it. And now I am forced to talk about all the stuff you wrote? Why? I didn’t even say “Oh but it’s so great” I just said that I don’t believe that anyone ever had all the weaponskills before they would have it now.
But anyway, since you demanded:

PS: My Necro had been level 10 when the last patch hit and I didn’t get into my PS before level 30 to 40 when I tried to get some traits. But I think the characters still start with their personal story, so it’s okay for new players as they’re not completely left alone but are now kind of forced to wait until their level is high enough. I had to have help from my guildies when I started this game and did the PS. And that’s kind of why I never completed it on my first character – it’s a pain to get somebody to do a PS.

Dumbed down starting zones: The only thing that bothers me with that is that the repair npc is gone, other than that the starter starter area is that small that it isn’t that bad. The quests – weren’t that smart before that but I do miss feeding the bears in Wayfarer’s. But would a new player notice? Guess not.

Okay, what else? Profession mechanics, you mean rangers who have no control over their pet anymore? Would be bad for someone doing 1v1 wvw/pvp but since no sane person does wvw/pvp? with an uplevel since the april patch I guess that’s forgiveable. Ranger had been my first character and I think I had better things to do than to think about how to control my pet – I have no opinion on that actually.

Burst levelling: No idea what that is.

Happy now? =)

Yes, you can complain all you want but that doesn’t change that a lot of players ARE lost at the start of this game – I helped quite a lot of them to get through stuff, not only personal story but making gold, exploring, combat etc. The tips popping up at each level aren’t that helpful, new players will likely still have to google a lot of the stuff, but they are reminded that there is more at each new level. A veteran player can click that away in a second and go on playing, or if it doesn’t bother them keep the icon(s) until they can be bothered to open them.

Oh, I forgot: When I was a new player I used the weapon I already had the skills unlocked as I was doing personal stories with my guildies who were more dead than alive all the time, so trying out new weapons was no option.

Jana.6831:

I do miss feeding the bears in Wayfarer’s. But would a new player notice? Guess not.

Never mention that around me again! I thought that when I first did it before the NPE that it was most endearing and lovely thing to do, I was looking forward to doing it again with any character that might pass that way.

I didn’t realize that they’d removed it so couple of days ago, F…F..FF. “eh?” somethings wrong with my keyboard (look down, nope I’m pressing the right key F), try again to feed the poor little bear cubs, finally I figured out it had been removed..

Achievement Unlocked!
Making a 40 year old man cry because he can’t feed bears in a virtual game.
Congratulations ArenaNet :P

p.s I bet even Gaile Grey is a little upset by this change too, not that she’d say anything, she being the ranger pet lover.

aerial.7021:

Jana.6831:

I do miss feeding the bears in Wayfarer’s. But would a new player notice? Guess not.

Never mention that around me again! I thought that when I first did it before the NPE that it was most endearing and lovely thing to do, I was looking forward to doing it again with any character that might pass that way.

I didn’t realize that they’d removed it so couple of days ago, F…F..FF. “eh?” somethings wrong with my keyboard (look down, nope I’m pressing the right key F), try again to feed the poor little bear cubs, finally I figured out it had been removed..

Achievement Unlocked!
Making a 40 year old man cry because he can’t feed bears in a virtual game.
Congratulations ArenaNet :P

p.s I bet even Gaile Grey is a little upset by this change too, not that she’d say anything, she being the ranger pet lover.

I really don’t think they needed to take any of that stuff out.

HandOfKane.5409:

Hardly, since they were unlocked much earlier and the content was exciting enough to get there without much notice. You can hardly say that something gated at lvl 5 is exactly the same as something gated at lvl 13, can you?

According to Anet gated features are unlocked at the same TIME as they always used to. For example, getting to level 13 with the new system takes the same amount of time it used to get to level 5 with the old system. You can’t compare the two levels as numbers only, the time (and experience required) to level up has gone down considerably.

Based on my girlfriends experience so far, I believe that the changes to the NPE are most definitely a good idea as having everything available from the get go would have been even more overwhelming.

I can understand her points, but I don’t think the NPE is the solution.

For one thing, I could see the value in staggering out when you are required to know things. Unlock stuff at the rate it was unlocked before the NPE, but don’t require that people use these things, just leave them to the side so that players who are too busy learning the basics never even notice they could use Utilities or food or whatever.

More importantly, the game needs WAY better tutorial elements. Every system, such as food, should be clearly explained to every player. Maybe use those new level-up prompts, like have one offer you food, and fully explain what the food is for. Have one offer skillpoints, and explain how to spend them, slot a skill, and use it.

If a player is not good at learning MMO systems on their own, and if the game never explains the system to them, then it doesn’t matter whether they push a feature back by five levels, twenty levels, or all the way to 80, they’ll still be confused about it when they get there.

Ohoni.6057:

Based on my girlfriends experience so far, I believe that the changes to the NPE are most definitely a good idea as having everything available from the get go would have been even more overwhelming.

I can understand her points, but I don’t think the NPE is the solution.

For one thing, I could see the value in staggering out when you are required to know things. Unlock stuff at the rate it was unlocked before the NPE, but don’t require that people use these things, just leave them to the side so that players who are too busy learning the basics never even notice they could use Utilities or food or whatever.

More importantly, the game needs WAY better tutorial elements. Every system, such as food, should be clearly explained to every player. Maybe use those new level-up prompts, like have one offer you food, and fully explain what the food is for. Have one offer skillpoints, and explain how to spend them, slot a skill, and use it.

If a player is not good at learning MMO systems on their own, and if the game never explains the system to them, then it doesn’t matter whether they push a feature back by five levels, twenty levels, or all the way to 80, they’ll still be confused about it when they get there.

Except that it’s not just extremes. It’s not just a player is good or a player is bad at learning MMO systems. There are all sorts of gradations and variations in the middle, a range of people with different abilities.

Slowing down the rate at which someone sees stuff does have a positive effect on a percentage of people. That is to say, information overload is a problem for many people and slowing down the rate at which information is offered is definitely one viable solution.

Slowing down the rate at which someone sees stuff does have a positive effect on a percentage of people. That is to say, information overload is a problem for many people and slowing down the rate at which information is offered is definitely one viable solution.

Perhaps, but it’s also equally detrimental to everyone else, who grasps the systems available quickly enough, and then have nothing to do with their time for dozens of levels until the game decides even the slowest kids in class have picked up the lessons. It would be like if a K-12 school system decided that because some students take until grade 5-6 to learn to read reasonably well, there will be no required reading for anyone until grade 7, and math will be kept at simple arithmetikittenil college.

If some people need more time to learn things, they can take all the time they need, but it should not come at the expense of all the other players.

Ohoni.6057:

Slowing down the rate at which someone sees stuff does have a positive effect on a percentage of people. That is to say, information overload is a problem for many people and slowing down the rate at which information is offered is definitely one viable solution.

Perhaps, but it’s also equally detrimental to everyone else, who grasps the systems available quickly enough, and then have nothing to do with their time for dozens of levels until the game decides even the slowest kids in class have picked up the lessons. It would be like if a K-12 school system decided that because some students take until grade 5-6 to learn to read reasonably well, there will be no required reading for anyone until grade 7, and math will be kept at simple arithmetikittenil college.

If some people need more time to learn things, they can take all the time they need, but it should not come at the expense of all the other players.

I think there has to be a balance and I don’t think the balance they’ve struck is that far off. It’s never going to be perfect for everyone. It has to be somewhere in the middle and it is.

I’m an experienced player and I didn’t find it particularly onerous. Not as good as it once was, but by no means was my experience ruined either. It’s a bit slow at the beginning, but since I hit level 10 pretty kitten ed fast, I just don’t care.

It’s a tiny percentage of a character’s “lifespan”. Of course you’re free to disagree, but that’s what I mean by not perfect for everyone. There needs to be a compromise and that’s what Anet has done.

I don’t understand how spamming 1 1 1 over and over again helps a new player learn how the combat system works.

Rpgtabbycat.5869:

I don’t understand how spamming 1 1 1 over and over again helps a new player learn how the combat system works.

For five minutes? Give me a break. They’re not spamming 1 once the tutorial is over…usually takes less than five minutes.

Maybe they’ll learn to move and fight at the same time, something you can’t do in many MMOs.

I’m an experienced player and I didn’t find it particularly onerous. Not as good as it once was, but by no means was my experience ruined either. It’s a bit slow at the beginning, but since I hit level 10 pretty kitten ed fast, I just don’t care.

My level 50 character still feels Harrison Bergeroned, having only about half the traits available that he used to.

Ohoni.6057:

I’m an experienced player and I didn’t find it particularly onerous. Not as good as it once was, but by no means was my experience ruined either. It’s a bit slow at the beginning, but since I hit level 10 pretty kitten ed fast, I just don’t care.

My level 50 character still feels Harrison Bergeroned, having only about half the traits available that he used to.

I’m talking about the NPE, not the trait redo which was done on April 15, which I’m against. The changes made on September 9th didn’t touch the trait system.

By all means complain about the trait system, but the NPE has become a non-issue. The biggest issue left from it is from the hatchet job done on the post level 70 personal story. Now that is something that needs to be fixed.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Casmurro.9046:

I dont think the example that the OP is bringing up is very relevant. He basically had to drag his girlfriend into playing gw2, he even had to buy the game for her. I bet that after 20 hours of playing the game she will get bored and stop playing, and no matter what changes you recommend that wont make her hold more attention to the game.

The game should catter to people that are interested in playing it, if you buy a game you should do a little research about what you are buying before spending money on it, and not expect to be hand-holded all the way through the game.

So, basically she doesnt know how mmos work, didnt even bother in buying a copy herself and after only a few hours she felt overwhelmed by everything the game has to offer so lets dumb down the game even more so more and more people that dont give a kitten about the game can complain less until they reach lvl 80 and get bored anyway.

QFT

Catering to those that aren’t going to hang around anyways makes me think they don’t want the kind of players that will end up staying for the long haul. I could understand making the starter zones in to proper tutorials to explain some of the things like dodging and combo fields that are completely different than other MMOs. The changes they did do though show a total disconnect from the playerbase.

The biggest issue I have with the NPE. I don’t see Anet doing a good job balancing between what old players expect and holding hands of the new players. The NPE is a completely different one than when the game was first released. I don’t mind tweaks (added message pop-ups, restrictions to skills via progression) to help new players. I do mind being told that players are so overwhelmed that they can’t access basic weapon skills until later levels.

If Anet is looking to appeal to the kind of player that isn’t capable of figuring out the most basic of concepts of an MMO, then I think this is an indicator of the level of intelligence needed to do future content they are planning. Don’t dumb the start so much that you get a bunch of vegetables running around at level 80 that can’t do the harder stuff.

Honestly, if this is the future state of the NPE, let me purchase a premade to level 40 or even 80.

Vayne.8563:

Rpgtabbycat.5869:

I don’t understand how spamming 1 1 1 over and over again helps a new player learn how the combat system works.

For five minutes? Give me a break. They’re not spamming 1 once the tutorial is over…usually takes less than five minutes.

Maybe they’ll learn to move and fight at the same time, something you can’t do in many MMOs.

they have no reason to learn this though, because they trvialized the encounters. actionh games can get by early with one button, because they usually make early game about mastering moving and hitting at the proper times, but gw2 tends to have enemies with unclear hit boxes, poor feedback on when you get hit, poor movement, and their attacks are rare.

thinking about it, the monster basic behavior and movement style is generally really poor. i dont mean like AI, i mean like this monster tries to maintain mid range and use line drive attacks, this other guy tries to teleport next to you then strike, this guy does a damaging line drive. Just regular enemy behavior type stuff

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Rpgtabbycat.5869:

I don’t understand how spamming 1 1 1 over and over again helps a new player learn how the combat system works.

For five minutes? Give me a break. They’re not spamming 1 once the tutorial is over…usually takes less than five minutes.

Maybe they’ll learn to move and fight at the same time, something you can’t do in many MMOs.

they have no reason to learn this though, because they trvialized the encounters. actionh games can get by early with one button, because they usually make early game about mastering moving and hitting at the proper times, but gw2 tends to have enemies with unclear hit boxes, poor feedback on when you get hit, poor movement, and their attacks are rare.

thinking about it, the monster basic behavior and movement style is generally really poor. i dont mean like AI, i mean like this monster tries to maintain mid range and use line drive attacks, this other guy tries to teleport next to you then strike, this guy does a damaging line drive. Just regular enemy behavior type stuff

People complain that people press 1 through the entire game and that complaint goes back long long before the NPE. So blaming that fault on the NPE would be misdirecting your ire. If your complaint is people can do content by hitting one, you’re considerably late complaining about it.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Rpgtabbycat.5869:

I don’t understand how spamming 1 1 1 over and over again helps a new player learn how the combat system works.

For five minutes? Give me a break. They’re not spamming 1 once the tutorial is over…usually takes less than five minutes.

Maybe they’ll learn to move and fight at the same time, something you can’t do in many MMOs.

they have no reason to learn this though, because they trvialized the encounters. actionh games can get by early with one button, because they usually make early game about mastering moving and hitting at the proper times, but gw2 tends to have enemies with unclear hit boxes, poor feedback on when you get hit, poor movement, and their attacks are rare.

thinking about it, the monster basic behavior and movement style is generally really poor. i dont mean like AI, i mean like this monster tries to maintain mid range and use line drive attacks, this other guy tries to teleport next to you then strike, this guy does a damaging line drive. Just regular enemy behavior type stuff

People complain that people press 1 through the entire game and that complaint goes back long long before the NPE. So blaming that fault on the NPE would be misdirecting your ire. If your complaint is people can do content by hitting one, you’re considerably late complaining about it.

i dont blame NPE for that, but i am saying that the idea that people could learn better movement if they had less skills to deal with, is not reinforced by the enemy AI design. And yes this is a problem for the whole game,

but basically, the type of depth they do have in battle is more about knowing which skills/sequence of skills will help the most in a given situation. So having no skills, only highlights that most enemies are homing punching bags.
the reduction in damage dealt and less skills that it would be a good idea to dodge only highlights this early in the game

Jana.6831:

…
The quests – weren’t that smart before that but I do miss feeding the bears in Wayfarer’s. But would a new player notice? Guess not.
…

Maybe the players that need directions on what to do like zombies from their zombie master might not notice but many players are used to games that if you can interact with an object there is usually a reason and a purpose. So if they are exploring the area and can pick up the fish they may expect to be able to do something with it. The same thing with the golem chess in Metrica Province, and probably other things in other starter areas. If Anet was going to remove those things they should have removed all vestiges of them instead of doing a half-fast job of it. As is these things are more confusing then they were before.

And what was so confusing about bundles anyway? They are still in the game. Have they introduced some tutorial or instruction on them so that when they are encountered later they will be any less confusing? (That is not a rhetorical question I’m actually asking.)

Alright, there it was again “The weaponskills are locked” – they were before on ALL weapons, so you started out with an axe, it took you 100 kills to have all the skills unlocked, by then you were level 7, then you got a sword and had to kill 100 more to unlock all of the skills, then a shortbow, a longbow, a torch, a warhorn… Even as a veteran player you were restricted. So I don’t get why people think they are more restricted now as honestly: there aren’t that many killable mobs around and even if, it gets boring real fast or you get killed really fast as you can only spam 1 on every new weapon. And yes, the numbers aren’t absolute but I know that I’ve had troubles with this system on every character. All of them learned all their underwater weapon skills after they hit 80.

Lazuli: A new player doesn’t know that there were bear cubs who had tiny hearts above their heads when they fed them before the changes, that was what I meant.
Does anet has to introduce bundles in a starter area? My first quest/event in gw2 was the one with the sylvari hounds and spiders and I think I just smashed 1 to kill the spiders, pretty certain that it failed as I had no time to have a look at the remedy or understand how to use it properly. And yes, the unusable golem chess confused me this week, but it wouldn’t really confuse a new player: “Something there, I can’t do anything with it, whatever, next”

Most people in this game don’t know too much about it, let’s be honest. I’ve been on two servers and played wvw and only those who were around when I started wvw nearly a year ago had some idea about combos, all others don’t they just stack to share their boons, so I find all this outrage “are new players too dumb” a bit amusing as I know that 95% of those who think they’ve mastered the game have not.

I have no idea whether or not the NPE helps new players as I’m a veteran myself, so I can’t tell but if it means that less people are screaming that this or that should be nerfed (like food, as it’s useless, right?) because they understand that everything has a purpose and that there’s always more to learn, then I’m all for this new system.

Jana.6831:

Alright, there it was again “The weaponskills are locked” – they were before on ALL weapons, so you started out with an axe, it took you 100 kills to have all the skills unlocked, by then you were level 7, then you got a sword and had to kill 100 more to unlock all of the skills, then a shortbow, a longbow, a torch, a warhorn… Even as a veteran player you were restricted. So I don’t get why people think they are more restricted now as honestly: there aren’t that many killable mobs around and even if, it gets boring real fast or you get killed really fast as you can only spam 1 on every new weapon. And yes, the numbers aren’t absolute but I know that I’ve had troubles with this system on every character. All of them learned all their underwater weapon skills after they hit 80.

Lazuli: A new player doesn’t know that there were bear cubs who had tiny hearts above their heads when they fed them before the changes, that was what I meant.
Does anet has to introduce bundles in a starter area? My first quest/event in gw2 was the one with the sylvari hounds and spiders and I think I just smashed 1 to kill the spiders, pretty certain that it failed as I had no time to have a look at the remedy or understand how to use it properly. And yes, the unusable golem chess confused me this week, but it wouldn’t really confuse a new player: “Something there, I can’t do anything with it, whatever, next”

Most people in this game don’t know too much about it, let’s be honest. I’ve been on two servers and played wvw and only those who were around when I started wvw nearly a year ago had some idea about combos, all others don’t they just stack to share their boons, so I find all this outrage “are new players too dumb” a bit amusing as I know that 95% of those who think they’ve mastered the game have not.

I have no idea whether or not the NPE helps new players as I’m a veteran myself, so I can’t tell but if it means that less people are screaming that this or that should be nerfed (like food, as it’s useless, right?) because they understand that everything has a purpose and that there’s always more to learn, then I’m all for this new system.

didnt really work that way, how many kills you needed scaled based on your level, so in many ways it actually was better than the current system. They could just have set the amount of kills to scale more drastically with level, to the point that at level 10 you unlock 1 skill per kill.

at level 80 you would have unlocked your entire weapon set in 5 kills, so i really dont know why you bring that up.

the other thing is they didnt teach new players anything here, they are trying to teach them by osmosis. And i really doubt anyone before was like, i really am not ready for 5 skills until i hit level 10, in fact even having a 5 skill makes me want to quit playing.
If the NPE taught things like combos, condition removals, complimentary trait selection, reading tells, etc, that would be one thing.

When is the last time anyone heard anyone in mapchat in a level 1-10 zone say hey guys i got too many weaponskills

Jana.6831:

…
Most people in this game don’t know too much about it, let’s be honest.
…

If that problem is the justification for redesigning the trait system, the NPE and nerfing the starter areas, then has any of that helped solve the problem? Will players going through this whole new leveling experience know anything more about the game? They certainly won’t by level 15, or 40 or 60 and not even at 80. So what was the point of spending all this time and money on reworking everything? Did it improve game play? Definitely not. Was it all so they could make more money? If so then I guess time will tell but I wish they would just quit lying about it.

phys.7689:

didnt really work that way, how many kills you needed scaled based on your level, so in many ways it actually was better than the current system. They could just have set the amount of kills to scale more drastically with level, to the point that at level 10 you unlock 1 skill per kill.

at level 80 you would have unlocked your entire weapon set in 5 kills, so i really dont know why you bring that up.

I actually don’t know whether you talk hypothetically or about facts. So you think anet should’ve made it so that weaponskills unlock faster with a higher level or did they do that before anyway?
I brought up the level 80 and underwaterskills because I remember that all my characters had to unlock most of them after they hit 80, no idea how long it took but it was somewhat restricting, had more troubles with it on lower level characters and I sticked to my weapons for the most part as I had no time to unlock all the skills.

phys.7689:

the other thing is they didnt teach new players anything here, they are trying to teach them by osmosis. And i really doubt anyone before was like, i really am not ready for 5 skills until i hit level 10, in fact even having a 5 skill makes me want to quit playing.
If the NPE taught things like combos, condition removals, complimentary trait selection, reading tells, etc, that would be one thing.

The former system didn’t teach me anything either, I tried to be all serious about it when I leveled my third character 4 months after I started this game.. but still.. nah. But hey I learned that knockback is annoying on my ranger a month into this game. Didn’t need any hints or clues for it, just fought melee – maybe more people should be forced to do so.

phys.7689:

When is the last time anyone heard anyone in mapchat in a level 1-10 zone say hey guys i got too many weaponskills

You aren’t serious, are you? The only people who would complain about having too few skills are veteran players. And I actually don’t get why as “most of them” are leveling in EotM anyway where there’s an occassional champ to kill.

EDTA: overread it first time around, sorry: “If the NPE taught things like combos, condition removals, complimentary trait selection, reading tells, etc, that would be one thing.” They do explain combos but the explanation has stayed the same and it still sounds as if you need a random player doing a random field at a random time to produce a random combo. Not happy with that either but.. Condition removals are kind of self explaining, I think. I don’t know what you mean with the rest, to be honest.

Lazuli.2098:

Jana.6831:

…
Most people in this game don’t know too much about it, let’s be honest.
…

If that problem is the justification for redesigning the trait system, the NPE and nerfing the starter areas, then has any of that helped solve the problem? Will players going through this whole new leveling experience know anything more about the game? They certainly won’t by level 15, or 40 or 60 and not even at 80. So what was the point of spending all this time and money on reworking everything? Did it improve game play? Definitely not. Was it all so they could make more money? If so then I guess time will tell but I wish they would just quit lying about it.

I already answered that by saying that I don’t know and can’t judge it as I’m a veteran player myself.
And maybe they did improve the gameplay, I could get into a very long story from when I helped a new player and what problems he had.. but not sure if the time spent on this would really enlighten anyone.

Jana.6831:

phys.7689:

didnt really work that way, how many kills you needed scaled based on your level, so in many ways it actually was better than the current system. They could just have set the amount of kills to scale more drastically with level, to the point that at level 10 you unlock 1 skill per kill.

at level 80 you would have unlocked your entire weapon set in 5 kills, so i really dont know why you bring that up.

I actually don’t know whether you talk hypothetically or about facts. So you think anet should’ve made it so that weaponskills unlock faster with a higher level or did they do that before anyway?
I brought up the level 80 and underwaterskills because I remember that all my characters had to unlock most of them after they hit 80, no idea how long it took but it was somewhat restricting, had more troubles with it on lower level characters and I sticked to my weapons for the most part as I had no time to unlock all the skills.

phys.7689:

the other thing is they didnt teach new players anything here, they are trying to teach them by osmosis. And i really doubt anyone before was like, i really am not ready for 5 skills until i hit level 10, in fact even having a 5 skill makes me want to quit playing.
If the NPE taught things like combos, condition removals, complimentary trait selection, reading tells, etc, that would be one thing.

The former system didn’t teach me anything either, I tried to be all serious about it when I leveled my third character 4 months after I started this game.. but still.. nah. But hey I learned that knockback is annoying on my ranger a month into this game. Didn’t need any hints or clues for it, just fought melee – maybe more people should be forced to do so.

phys.7689:

When is the last time anyone heard anyone in mapchat in a level 1-10 zone say hey guys i got too many weaponskills

You aren’t serious, are you? The only people who would complain about having too few skills are veteran players. And I actually don’t get why as “most of them” are leveling in EotM anyway where there’s an occassional champ to kill.

EDTA: overread it first time around, sorry: “If the NPE taught things like combos, condition removals, complimentary trait selection, reading tells, etc, that would be one thing.” They do explain combos but the explanation has stayed the same and it still sounds as if you need a random player doing a random field at a random time to produce a random combo. Not happy with that either but.. Condition removals are kind of self explaining, I think. I don’t know what you mean with the rest, to be honest.

yes shortly after launch they changed new skill aquisition to require less kills the more high level you were. So at some levels you would unlock 1 skill per kill.

and what i was saying is heard new players being confused about many things in map chat, having too many skills was never a complaint.

and yes, the game taught you very little that you needed to know before, so they revamp the system to make it easier to learn, and nothing suggests its any easier to learn. The same things that people didnt know before, they still wont know now with the improved system.

I would Like to say that I had never considered how Gw2 appears to a player that has never played an MMO before.

My first MMO was EverQuest. My experience of that game was that i spent as much time researching things Online at fan sites, as I did playing the game.

I Guess I have always felt this was How you learned, Jump into the deep end of the pool, and Hope you can swim.

I do think after having read the OP, that sometimes we forget. If new players are turned off to the genre, the genre will just die, as current seasoned vets .. slowly stop playing the games.

As much as I detest " simplifying", I need to remember that not every player out there, has any idea what an MMO is, and needs a " tutorial". Some players need to understand about salvaging for mats, and saving mats for upgrades. How to craft armor.

After having read this, while I feel level locking skills, is not something I personally enjoy, it may be what is needed for the total MMO virgin.

OP thank you for sharing, it does give me a new perspective.

phys.7689:

yes shortly after launch they changed new skill aquisition to require less kills the more high level you were. So at some levels you would unlock 1 skill per kill.

And now you already have all the skills at that high a level.. I did that on my thief and still needed more than one kill as far as I can remember, it wasn’t that bad though, just that it would’ve been a lot more annoying had I done it at a lower level with mobs who were actually able to kill me.

phys.7689:

and what i was saying is heard new players being confused about many things in map chat, having too many skills was never a complaint.

Anet tried to keep the old weapon skill unlock without having to unlock the skills = people shouldn’t get used to the new skills by unlocking them but by the level gated restriction. They didn’t try to make people less confused, they tried to encourage them to pick new weapons which already have the skills unlocked.

phys.7689:

and yes, the game taught you very little that you needed to know before, so they revamp the system to make it easier to learn, and nothing suggests its any easier to learn. The same things that people didnt know before, they still wont know now with the improved system.

I remember the combo quote, don’t ask me why but I remember that it popped up in the middle of the fight while the mob was still alive and I had to click that thing away.I read it but a lot of people won’t have time to do so. Now I get the same message when I leveled up and can chose whether to read the new tips and tools right now or later on. So that’s better – it isn’t perfect but better.

Nerelith.7360:

…

Fun fact: My experiences with other MMOs was what it made it hard for me to start in this game.

Yep most of my complaints about it were about not having the option of turning these things off on alts for veteran players. It’s like having the restrictions of a trial account in WoW on every new pre level 20 player even though you are already a subscriber and you’ve got 5 other max level characters.

I think had they added the code that checks to see if the player already has a level 80 on one of the servers that they have a character located on, that would turn off these features for new players in the NPE they wouldn’t have had the backlash about this change that they did have because from what I’ve read it’s been mostly altoholics like me.

You want to make playing your game insightful and fun we understand that but restrictions for veterans is never a good idea. This game already has heavy restrictions like not having a race change in the store, or the cost in gold of buying traits from the previous feature patch (which was never changed despite feedback from veterans), the ever increasing cost of essential runes for PVE builds in the TP rather than using Karma for progression I guess what I’m saying is veterans didn’t need more restrictions on Alts.

DaveyC.4398:

I would like to give perhaps a different perspective to the NPE. So to give a little background to this, I am not a new player. My first MMO was GW1 and have played others in between the two games.

MMOs in general have core concepts such as armour, weapons, upgrades, crafting, loot drops and countless other things that most players who are GW2 veterans or gamers who have played other MMOs will take their understanding of for granted.

So my Girlfriend decided that after a few years of moaning at me for playing GW2 all the time she would give it a try during the free trial. I ultimately brought her an account as it was in the sale.

My Girlfriend has no experience of an MMO, her typical computer games are things like Sim City and the odd PS4 or Xbox One game like Kinect Sport.
At first when she created a character and did her first starting levels, she was getting really into it. I followed her around in the low level areas trying to explain the basics like navigating, killing mobs etc.

At the end of her first few hours she seemed quite into the game. Yesterday she went back onto it and continued doing hearts until she hit level 10. At this point she had what can be described as a mini melt down as to how confusing the requirements are. She got very frustrated at not knowing what the armour types are for, what to do with loot, why we have bank storage, what to do with crafting materials, why we needed crafting materials, what the purpose of food buffs are and all of the things that a seasoned MMO player would know instinctively.

She felt that the game did not do a good job of explaining these elements during the initial game play.

Based on my girlfriends experience so far, I believe that the changes to the NPE are most definitely a good idea as having everything available from the get go would have been even more overwhelming.

I also believe that the NPE should introduce some of the points mentioned above at an earlier stage so her confusion could have been minimised.
She hasn’t rage quit yet but we will see how her next few days go.

I think the point I am trying to make with this post is that most people who are moaning about the changes are not new to MMOs or GW2 and should think about what it would be like to start this game with no understanding of the mechanics or MMOs in general.

I believe further changes could be made in order to help new players learn these concepts within the game, perhaps tutorials that could be accessed within the game rather than having to access the wiki.

OOOOOORRRRRRRRRR

ANET can include a kittening manual with the game LIKE GAMES USED TO.
And you READ.

Mini melt down? Is, is that a thing? In videogames?
Once I almost killed someone at work, I got kinda stressed, took an hour off.
Was kinda shaky.

[3 lines edited out, because I legitimately fear infractions now, thank anet]

Also Vayne and Phys
I don’t know what the fudge you guys are talking about, kinda, but as a new player last year and half ago, it NEVER occurred to me to spam 1.

Hell I didn’t even know autoattack was a thing!
When I first got “downed” I got so excited I was positively ready for lady company!

Now “Survivor” had more, I don’t know, pizazz?! I don’t know but it was AMAZING, instead of you know, just dying and rezzing as goes the STALE mmo routine.
And in this way, Anet did something new and unique and frantically fun!

But now people have “meltdowns”.
I wonder what will happen when they start working…

I hope it’s not at Starbucks.

Here’s a big word: CONSISTENCY.

Anet forgot that it’s important. In what world is a sudden change from instantly dieing when losing all health to going to down state, and THEN further along changing the mechanics of the skills as you level less confusing than having the same system from the start? In what way does suddenly encountering enemies using CC after some 20 levels of harmless bunnies dressed as monsters constitute as smooth learning curve?

Before they had the oomph taken from them, ettins were GREAT starter zone enemies – they had clearly telegraphed attacks with clear feedback in the form of knocking the player down. Fighting against enemies like that from the start, when their damage isn’t particularly dangerous, teaches the new player how integral dodging really is in the game. Now? It’s a boring enemy that’s no different from your average warg.

Now what would help a new player learn stuff, would be to expand on the “training areas” of the starter zones – there are areas more or less like that in each. Add in permanent combo fields, with bundles nearby with leap, blast and shot skills, with a npc nearby explaining details. This would allow the new player to easily experiment with the mechanics – much better than reading some text blurb appearing on level up, wouldn’t you agree? Doing is learning, and dumbing down starter zones lessens the doing, and so, learning.

So, what we have here, is a more confusing, less teaching NPE than at launch.

Tuomir.1830:

Now what would help a new player learn stuff, would be to expand on the “training areas” of the starter zones – there are areas more or less like that in each. Add in permanent combo fields, with bundles nearby with leap, blast and shot skills, with a npc nearby explaining details. This would allow the new player to easily experiment with the mechanics – much better than reading some text blurb appearing on level up, wouldn’t you agree? Doing is learning, and dumbing down starter zones lessens the doing, and so, learning.

So, what we have here, is a more confusing, less teaching NPE than at launch.

Didn’t quite look at it that way and I agree, slowly I am beginning to understand why there is so much angst over this NPE.

Vayne.8563:

I get to level 15 in an hour and a half. Yes several people DO disagree with me. You’re clearly ignoring the people who agree with me. I’m not so sure what percentage is what anymore.

Most of the complaining about the NPE stopped after Anet made changes to it. Most people seemed relatively content after that.

Are there still complaints? Sure. There are also complaints about no mounts, no open world PvE, and Keg Brawl…so yeah.

It had NEVER taken me, and i mean NEVER taken me an hour or more to get to level 7 in this game. Ever. I could get to level 10 in about 15-20 minutes, so saying that gating something like weapons swap behind level 15 being the same as it being at level 7 is disingenuous. I find it hard to believe anyone that has played this game regularly took that long to get to level 7. Ever.

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

DaveyC.4398:

I would like to give perhaps a different perspective to the NPE. So to give a little background to this, I am not a new player. My first MMO was GW1 and have played others in between the two games.

MMOs in general have core concepts such as armour, weapons, upgrades, crafting, loot drops and countless other things that most players who are GW2 veterans or gamers who have played other MMOs will take their understanding of for granted.

So my Girlfriend decided that after a few years of moaning at me for playing GW2 all the time she would give it a try during the free trial. I ultimately brought her an account as it was in the sale.

My Girlfriend has no experience of an MMO, her typical computer games are things like Sim City and the odd PS4 or Xbox One game like Kinect Sport.
At first when she created a character and did her first starting levels, she was getting really into it. I followed her around in the low level areas trying to explain the basics like navigating, killing mobs etc.

At the end of her first few hours she seemed quite into the game. Yesterday she went back onto it and continued doing hearts until she hit level 10. At this point she had what can be described as a mini melt down as to how confusing the requirements are. She got very frustrated at not knowing what the armour types are for, what to do with loot, why we have bank storage, what to do with crafting materials, why we needed crafting materials, what the purpose of food buffs are and all of the things that a seasoned MMO player would know instinctively.

She felt that the game did not do a good job of explaining these elements during the initial game play.

Based on my girlfriends experience so far, I believe that the changes to the NPE are most definitely a good idea as having everything available from the get go would have been even more overwhelming.

I also believe that the NPE should introduce some of the points mentioned above at an earlier stage so her confusion could have been minimised.
She hasn’t rage quit yet but we will see how her next few days go.

I think the point I am trying to make with this post is that most people who are moaning about the changes are not new to MMOs or GW2 and should think about what it would be like to start this game with no understanding of the mechanics or MMOs in general.

I believe further changes could be made in order to help new players learn these concepts within the game, perhaps tutorials that could be accessed within the game rather than having to access the wiki.

OOOOOORRRRRRRRRR

ANET can include a kittening manual with the game LIKE GAMES USED TO.
And you READ.

Mini melt down? Is, is that a thing? In videogames?
Once I almost killed someone at work, I got kinda stressed, took an hour off.
Was kinda shaky.

[3 lines edited out, because I legitimately fear infractions now, thank anet]

Also Vayne and Phys
I don’t know what the fudge you guys are talking about, kinda, but as a new player last year and half ago, it NEVER occurred to me to spam 1.

Hell I didn’t even know autoattack was a thing!
When I first got “downed” I got so excited I was positively ready for lady company!

Now “Survivor” had more, I don’t know, pizazz?! I don’t know but it was AMAZING, instead of you know, just dying and rezzing as goes the STALE mmo routine.
And in this way, Anet did something new and unique and frantically fun!

But now people have “meltdowns”.
I wonder what will happen when they start working…

I hope it’s not at Starbucks.

It never occurred to me to press 1 either, but if you walk around Tyria and watch other people fight, you’ll see a percentage of the playerbase does just that.