Guild Wars 2

SolarDragon.7063:

The level down system is working as intended.
I can’t do thousands of burn damage and onehit champs in a level 10 zone, but I can do more damage than a beginner. Otherwise, what was the point of me levelling up?
The current system is one of the best systems in any game I have seen for keeping low-level content relevant without “punishing” the player for playing down.

The problem with the level down system was that before it was “nerfed” into oblivion people wouldn’t even leave Queensdale. DLA has one major flaw and that is that it actually inhibits exploration while rewarding you for simply refusing to do so. You can ( and many do ) power level yourself ahead of the zones you need to enter and then skirt around getting the same ratio of experience over and over again basically skating over the game and because the first 15 levels (if that’s still true, I’ve not checked on that since launch) are quicker and there’s crap to shoot you instantly to level 30 and tomes of knowledge grow on trees DLA actually only exacerbates a problem that will now never go away.

You just created a toon about 13 minutes ago and visited a bank. It’s now level 80 and just walked out of Rata Sum, killed a firefly that had zero chance against you, and it drops three stat armor?

Say wut?

OP, you are misunderstanding much of what the dynamic leveling system is there for.

There are multiple goals to the system.

You are under the impression that making higher level characters exactly equal to the level range of the area is the entire goal. That is not true.

The two biggest goals of the system are:

1) to keep all zones playable, enjoyable, and worthwhile even for max level characters, to avoid low level area from becoming empty as happens in most other MMOs.

2) to allow you to play with your friends, no matter what level they are

The system accomplishes both of those goals wonderfully.

You are not supposed to be exactly as powerful as everyone standing next to you. Higher level character will have access to additional skills and traits, and actual player skill is going to be a factor as well. So long as characters are in a similar range, that’s good enough. You’re acting like because the system is only 98% perfect instead of 100% perfect, it should be completely scrapped.

crimlet.9872:

tolunart.2095:

crimlet.9872:

The way it is now, level down system doesn’t truly put higher level players on an even field. They are more powerful than you are. You might as well throw away your kb/mouse in frustration. Leave the game. Or quite playing altogether. Because who wants to play with somebody there that is clearly more powerful that it’s like you being there doesn’t even tip any scales?

And yet for four years and counting millions of players have done just that. You have convinced yourself the game is broken, and we tend to see what we expect to see.

I’m not your enemy. I’ve tried to explain as best I can that the game was designed to work as it does, and that “more powerful” is a natural and expected result of the progression of skills and stats every toon develops as it levels up.

This is a game for casual players, not hardcores seeking a challenge. They’ve added some goals for advanced players like Ascended gear and raids, but these were added a considerable time after launch (three years later for raids), while the dynamic level adjustments were built into the game before launch.

It was always intended to work this way, and while you may not be the only one who doesn’t like it, the problem is not as clear or as severe as you seem to have convinced yourself it is. Thus, the problem exists in your own mind, not in the game. No other explanation is necessary or even possible.

This is incorrect. The DLA as explained prior to release always as in always always always portrayed it as putting higher level players onto an even level with the players around. And yes if this was the case that higher level players were truly leveled down to an even scale it would be great for everybody, and a great selling point for the game at release. My original plan was to play Tera. But when I saw all the info on GW2, I skipped Tera, and waited for GW2 to release because of features like this. Yes the concept is great. And if it actually did work as it was portrayed, it would be great.

However, it doesn’t work as portrayed. And higher level players are overpowered nonetheless. Not a very good compromise. And screws up the gameplay for players progressing through the game. Casual or not.

You say the Devs stated the down-leveled players would be on an even level with level-appropriate characters. Can you provide any sources?

Here is a source stating that down-leveled characters would not be even, but more powerful:

New York Post – August 20, 2012

William (Vitka – Reporter): Very cool. How does Guild Wars 2’s dynamic level adjustment system work?

Matt (Wuerffel – Dev): It’s called level scaling, and there’s two different areas in which that works: In the main open world, the side kicking system or the level scaling system will auto-adjust level down to the appropriate level for the zone. So if you go back to a starter zone as a level 80, you’re not going to be one-shotting monsters.

You’re definitely going to be much more powerful. It doesn’t take away your traits. It doesn’t take away your gear. It doesn’t take away your skills that you’ve unlocked. But it does work with your damage modifiers and stats, so that you’re able to play content with you buddy that just started a new character.

http://nypost.com/2012/08/20/guild-wars-2-developer-interview-its-gonna-be-awesome/

From what am understanding you want content that isn’t trivialised by downleveled characters.

The misconception is that being 80 trivialises the content, but knowing the content and the class is actually what trivialises it. I can go with a level character with power gear and plow the content.
In open world you aren’t really going to find challenging content because it has to cater to the lowest denominator. Just look at all the complaints of difficulty when HoT dropped.

I believe you would find interest in at level dungeon runs. The difficulty is much harder then open world and you can control the level of who is there.

I don’t see exactly how the scaling down system isn’t working. A level, let’s say, 10, have the same stats as a character scaled down to level 10.

Unless you want Anet to lock down skills and traits and magically turn players equipment into blues or greens, the down scale system is working as intended. The player have the option to swap gears according to the map level as well as not use skills or traits if one wants to feel the same way as a low level player.

crimlet.9872:

tolunart.2095:

This is a you problem, not a game problem. I suggest playing one of those countless other MMOs that handle it better.

Completely circular. Does not address the actual question whatsoever completely disregarding the question. Circular meaning all you have done is restate the question instead of provide an actual answer.

What is your point for responding if all you’re doing is restating the question asked?

On the contrary, your argument has been circular. You haven’t established that the system is broken — you’ve established that it doesn’t work the way you think it should (or perhaps the way you presumed that it did, from ANet’s description pre-launch). Not working the way you like isn’t the same as ‘broken’.

The concept has always been to make it possible for L80s to join sub-L80s in the same zone and be able to play together. That happens now, so the system is working as intended.

You’d like to see more parity between the down-levels and the at-levels. However, a lot of people have pointed out why that would be unattractive to veterans (and/or horribly difficult to implement seamlessly). A lot of people have pointed out that their at-level experience has been fine or great, both as a veteran and as a newbie.

tl;dr the system is working as intended, even it’s not working the way you would prefer. Since it’s not broken, it doesn’t require an explanation.

It’s all about gear actually, as others have already said.
For example, my lvl 40 warrior deals loooads more dmg than my 80 engi in the same zone, simply because the warrior is clad in power+preci and the engi wears vita+preci+healing power.

With the warrior I can go crazy and keep pulling mobs, killing them almost instantly even if they’re the same level as me.
With the engi I can pull more mobs because of the increased survivability(it can only die in world pve if you’re afk), don’t have to dodge at all, but killing anything takes ages.

Which one is more powerful?

crimlet.9872:

Randulf.7614:

crimlet.9872:

Gehenna.3625:

From my experience, which is limited, people are generally happy when a higher level comes help out with events, especially when there are champions.

So this could be a simple case of you being part of a minority so small that Anet will not change what is apparently working for most people.

Completely and utterly restating the question with no actual answer in sight.

What is your actual question though? Why ppl don’t find it a problem? That seems to be fairly obvious, but I’ll give it a stab.

At the moment, the downscaling isn’t causing an issue. It isn’t something being raised by new players on the forums and I can count on one hand how many threads I have seen in 4 years.

It wasn’t raised as an issue when Anet did their research on developing an NPE, regardless of how badly that NPE went down, it wasn’t something theat was felt needed changing.

Downscaling works because it keeps things relevant, but I feel you get that. Why doesn’t it completely level out a new player with a downscaled player? Because it simply isn’t logical to do so. No player will want to fully trade off all their traits, their progression completely, but the current system does level things out to an extent which keeps a fine balance between feeling like your character has progressed and also keeping the area relevant proportionatly.

GW2 isn’t the sort of game where most ppl feel the need to lvl with equal footing players. Even beyond 80, it is designed to take into account players at different progression levels and it makes sense to work that backwards with the downscaling.

This isn’t a skill based levelling experience, so a true equal footing is not needed or necessary.

This doesn’t answer the question at all, and completely misinterprets the question.

I will clarify. Downscaling does not work. The reason it doesn’t work is because players aren’t truly scaled down on even level. Even when downscaled, players are overpowered in relation to the level they are downscaled to. Hence, no point in even downscaling. Might as well just keep players at full capacity since nobody cares about real actual balance.

Which I described regarding the relationship between being too grindy, thereby not being fun because of being too tedious. VS being too easy, thereby not being fun because not actually getting to fully experience the content due to overpowered players.

The problem is you still offer no clear question or proof to show the system is broken. There have been many clear, precise answers in this thread to show exactly why downscaling works and why it is not broken. Right now it is a system that works extremely well and works because it doesnt truly downscale in the way you describe. That would likely be an unwanted system by many fir the reasons I described..

You explain not fully experiencing the content because of other players, which I and others have specifically answered and addressed and then say that isnt what you want to know. The design of not being on level when down scaled you talked about and I specifically addressed with my comments about how it is designed yo be in balance with progression and relevance to the map. That addresses at least that part of your statement.

No one here is therefore sure what you really want because you arent really asking anything. We have thoroughly dismantled your statement from our point of view completely now. If you share a different point of view, then fine and no one will take that away, but we have given a complete and well rounded series of answers to exactly what your opening post has discussed.

If you want a different answer, then short of a clearer question, your replies will be the same.

Within topic, but shifting focus slightly, have you considered asking higher level players to ‘back off’ when they join your low-mid range parties?

I’ve regularly adopted a ‘support’ role at HP bosses in Queensdale (Bandit/Drake and even vet Centaurs at Hoofmoot), just so the newer player going for them can do so with a feeling of personal achievement. I’ll drop heals and do some reving/rezing where needed – and I don’t feel like I’m unbalancing things by playing winglady.

Could be that you had some bad experiences that tilted your perceptions. Like the above posters all said, it works the way Anet intended and the way players play.

Plus..and you have to be honest, the starter maps are the main source of copper/green wood for crafting – and even L80’s need those mats or the gold they sell for.

Not disputing your assessment of the system, certainly results in exactly what you describe, but I think still better than the free for all alternative that pits players against each other from the get go.

Maybe give it some more thought from that perspective?

Breeze

crimlet.9872:

Astralporing.1957:

But if you want an explanation: the reason it works that way is because Anet wanted leveled-up players to have a reason to go back to low-level areas and help out new players. At the same time, they also wanted the level to matter. Thus there is an advantage, but it’s small enough that downleveled players can still receive good rewards.

Doesn’t explain. The fact remains that a player higher than level X is still more powerful than a player truly at level X. Even when the player that is truly at level X has all the best equipment for their level. A higher level player with all the best equipment for their level, scaled down, is still more powerful.

Yes. Part of the design (as i have already explained to you in the quoted part above).

crimlet.9872:

If designed in a way that truly puts the higher level player to be the base equivalent of level X so that they would have no advantages over somebody of level X, then there would be no problem. You’re not depriving the lower level player at level X of enjoyability due to having somebody who is overpowered around.

As already explained, it does not deprive lower level players of enjoyability. At worst, it acts that way to you, personally. It’s clear that you are in minority here, however.

crimlet.9872:

And you’re not depriving the higher level player of enjoyability of enjoying content at their higher levels, and being too powerful to enjoy content at lower level zones.

…what? If higher level players were downleveled the way you want them to be, they’d definitely be deprived from the satisfaction coming from having that higher level.

crimlet.9872:

So you tell me how anybody doesn’t see any problem when a higher level players is present weakening the quality of the gameplay.

Perhaps because other people do not consider this as big problem as you think it is.

crimlet.9872:

Yet when playing with others of even level with no higher level players around, it makes for true gameplay.

Most players would rather group with downleveled players than be in an empty zone with only few other players of their same levels, doing other things and leaving them alone.

crimlet.9872:

I will clarify. Downscaling does not work. The reason it doesn’t work is because players aren’t truly scaled down on even level.

On the opposite, it was never meant to work the way you envisioned. It was only meant to reduce the difference between higher and lower players to manageable levels. Which it does well enough for a huge majority of players to not have any problem with it.

Again, that you don’t like how it works doesn’t mean it doesn’t work, or that it’s working wrong.

If you are level 80 already. There are lots of contents that are way better to do for the progression of your gear and mastery. You dont need to waste time on low level maps and worry about scaling.