Guild Wars 2

So I remember this game, being touted as not being a grindy game.

Is this a sign of things to come?

Should we start preparing to save 10-20,000 of every item in the game, so that we can possibly afford the new content as it comes out?

Am I going to need 15,000 snowflakes to make a new Christmas Mini.

Why are you doing this to the player base? Is it fun for you to tell us we are not going to get a grind-y game, and then smack us in the face with the biggest grind-fests possible?

Thanks for the fair game, fun, casual game. Oh wait…

Also, by the way casual players. You no longer matter.

Ashadow.6874:

So I remember this game, being touted as not being a grindy game.

Is this a sign of things to come?

Should we start preparing to save 10-20,000 of every item in the game, so that we can possibly afford the new content as it comes out?

Am I going to need 15,000 snowflakes to make a new Christmas Mini.

Why are you doing this to the player base? Is it fun for you to tell us we are not going to get a grind-y game, and then smack us in the face with the biggest grind-fests possible?

Thanks for the fair game, fun, casual game. Oh wait…

Also, by the way casual players. You no longer matter.

If you were ranting about BiS gear I’d wholeheartedly agree but a Christmas Mini?
That’s as vain as vanity items go, it contributes nothing to the actual gameplay so truth be told I don’t see a problem silly items being hard to get.

it’s only “grindy” if you want one of those specific rewards.

casual players looking for fun can have just as much fun as they did before…. and most casual players are smart enough to know they can’t chase every reward/title/achievement/item… that some things will simply be out of reach given their casual nature.

This was already found out in month 5-6. They don’t have a manifesto anymore and long since abandoned anything even remotely related to balance. I’m honestly hoping this game gets better, but seeing as I’m an ele main, I’ve lost most of my hope long ago. This is a good time waster though.

Getting the best gear in game is an aweful grind, who cares about minis? If fluff is connected to an aweful grind, that is 100% fine. Skins, minis, whatever.

But if the best gear is only craftable and BoA, needing megatons of resources, that is a reason to question the direction. And don’t even start with possible ascended drops in boxes as an alternative way to get those items…

Pariah.8506:

If you were ranting about BiS gear I’d wholeheartedly agree but a Christmas Mini?
That’s as vain as vanity items go, it contributes nothing to the actual gameplay so truth be told I don’t see a problem silly items being hard to get.

Going off your statement, BiS gear could be considered just as vain. Seeing as you don’t need Ascended Gear, and it hardly gives any advantage over Exotic gear.

So basically what you are saying, is as long as it doesn’t affect you. It doesn’t matter.

Welcome to the reason why EVERYONE is being screwed over by the latest changes.

Because “it doesn’t matter to me so I’m not going to bother standing up against it and let them steamroll through with crappy ideas.”

The reason why they are doing all of this, is because the community (our community, not theirs, because they aren’t even part of it, they are designing the game for themselves and “allowing us graciously” to play it) is so fragmented, that we can’t stand up as a community against atrocious issues.

There are some smaller issues, some normal issues. And then there are the issues where they are steam rolling all over the player-base just because they can. And people “don’t think it affects them.”

The christmas content lasts a whole month, and you are free to do other things in between. Or you could simply just chose not to do it at all..

Ashadow.6874:

Pariah.8506:

If you were ranting about BiS gear I’d wholeheartedly agree but a Christmas Mini?
That’s as vain as vanity items go, it contributes nothing to the actual gameplay so truth be told I don’t see a problem silly items being hard to get.

Going off your statement, BiS gear could be considered just as vain. Seeing as you don’t need Ascended Gear, and it hardly gives any advantage over Exotic gear.

So basically what you are saying, is as long as it doesn’t affect you. It doesn’t matter.

Welcome to the reason why EVERYONE is being screwed over by the latest changes.

Because “it doesn’t matter to me so I’m not going to bother standing up against it and let them steamroll through with crappy ideas.”

The reason why they are doing all of this, is because the community (our community, not theirs, because they aren’t even part of it, they are designing the game for themselves and “allowing us graciously” to play it) is so fragmented, that we can’t stand up as a community against atrocious issues.

There are some smaller issues, some normal issues. And then there are the issues where they are steam rolling all over the player-base just because they can. And people “don’t think it affects them.”

If it wasn’t needed than it shouldn’t have been implemented in the first place. Because let’s face it: The game has tons of issues that need attention over implementing the stuff that by your words “isn’t needed”.
Second I don’t agree that it doesn’t make a difference at all, the bonus DPS is estimated to be between 5 and 10%, not to mention it will only increase once Ascended Armour makes its tragic appearance. We are at a point where less skilled players can outperform simply because they’ve spent the time grinding / bought their way to Ascended equipment.

Thirdly I disagree on your notion that every issue is equally important to the game. You can’t seriously tell me a minipet is equally important to problems with class balance, bugs, the state of conditions, content design etc. You can’t argue that all things are equally important to the game, yes, perhaps there should be something done about the materials necessary for the mini, but only after the true issues have been addressed.

Pariah.8506:

Ashadow.6874:

Pariah.8506:

If you were ranting about BiS gear I’d wholeheartedly agree but a Christmas Mini?
That’s as vain as vanity items go, it contributes nothing to the actual gameplay so truth be told I don’t see a problem silly items being hard to get.

Going off your statement, BiS gear could be considered just as vain. Seeing as you don’t need Ascended Gear, and it hardly gives any advantage over Exotic gear.

So basically what you are saying, is as long as it doesn’t affect you. It doesn’t matter.

Welcome to the reason why EVERYONE is being screwed over by the latest changes.

Because “it doesn’t matter to me so I’m not going to bother standing up against it and let them steamroll through with crappy ideas.”

The reason why they are doing all of this, is because the community (our community, not theirs, because they aren’t even part of it, they are designing the game for themselves and “allowing us graciously” to play it) is so fragmented, that we can’t stand up as a community against atrocious issues.

There are some smaller issues, some normal issues. And then there are the issues where they are steam rolling all over the player-base just because they can. And people “don’t think it affects them.”

If it wasn’t needed than it shouldn’t have been implemented in the first place. Because let’s face it: The game has tons of issues that need attention over implementing the stuff that by your words “isn’t needed”.
Second I don’t agree that it doesn’t make a difference at all, the bonus DPS is estimated to be between 5 and 10%, not to mention it will only increase once Ascended Armour makes its tragic appearance. We are at a point where less skilled players can outperform simply because they’ve spent the time grinding / bought their way to Ascended equipment.

Thirdly I disagree on your notion that every issue is equally important to the game. You can’t seriously tell me a minipet is equally important to problems with class balance, bugs, the state of conditions, content design etc. You can’t argue that all things are equally important to the game, yes, perhaps there should be something done about the materials necessary for the mini, but only after the true issues have been addressed.

And herein lies the problem. Nothing is “needed” per se, but there are things people want, and some things people want a lot.

Things aren’t implemented because you need them or I need them. They’re implemented for reasons. For example, keeping people playing the game is Anet’s reason for doing it.

See Anet created this game and thought this is a fun game, people will stay for the fun. But no amount of content is fun enough without new content to keep people logging in. Without people logging in, people say the game is dead and by word of mouth the game becomes dead.

So these not needed things to keep people playing are only not needed if you’re looking at the trees rather than the forest.

Does the game need to keep players logging in for the good of players who do like the game. I think the answer to that question is a resounding yes.

Sure some people will hate it and be lost along the way. That’s only natural. And those people will complain. That’s also natural and perfectly okay.

But is it needed. Unfortunately, it probably is.

I do want these rewards, but not badly enough to waste my time getting 15k candy corn

Nothing should ever require more than 250. It’s all you can stack in the storage dedicated for this purpose. Unfortunately ANet do seem to have fallen into the lazy content style of adding grind. Forcing players to grind twice as long for an item is not the equivalent content as doing two different things for half that effort, but why add two things when you can be lazy and add one?

GrandmaFunk.3052:

it’s only “grindy” if you want one of those specific rewards.

casual players looking for fun can have just as much fun as they did before…. and most casual players are smart enough to know they can’t chase every reward/title/achievement/item… that some things will simply be out of reach given their casual nature.

Casual players might as well not play, this will make the economy insane for casual players and chase them away, with stuff like the skins that Anet only puts on the bltp and makes them rng for keys and casual players not able to get ahold of them unless they shell out an insane amount of cash for a game they play casually I don’t see that happening.

Bye Bye casuals. Sad Anet didn’t want to play with us, we must not be worthy.

I think/hope the 10k thing is a once off for this event. Players have an absolutely ABSURD amount of corn, to the point where I don’t think it left the “most supplied” list of items since last year. There needed to be a sink and it needed to be a big one.

That said, I hope the drop rate balance passes for future events don’t result is such a huge glut on the market that it requires a big adjustment.

Completely agree with the Thread Starter. GW was known for being fair and not being grindy like all other MMOs out there. People can play those MMOs, if they want hardcore, but GW should be mainly for casuals and enjoy the world… of course with some option for hardcores like legendaries, but not things like a whole ascended set, which give advantages

Sandpit.3467:

Nothing should ever require more than 250. It’s all you can stack in the storage dedicated for this purpose.

Exactly this. Up the bank stack sizes before you even THINK about adding 10k requirements for mats. I’m purposely not doing anything that requires so many mats because there’s no way I’m wasting bank space or wasting time transferring mats to a mule.

Not to mention that the Labyrinth is nowhere near fun enough to keep me grinding for a month straight on all that corn.

You have an entire month to collect those items.
Also, minipets aren’t BiS gear so who cares? If you really want them badly go farm, else don’t.
Nothing changes from a gameplay perspective.

In GW1 the FoW armor had the same stats as Droks armor and it required bazillions of ectos and shards.

You haven’t seen a true grindy game yet. When you need to kill the same mob over and over and over to get an exp bar THAT’S GRINDY.

rizzo.1079:

Sandpit.3467:

Nothing should ever require more than 250. It’s all you can stack in the storage dedicated for this purpose.

Not to mention that the Labyrinth is nowhere near fun enough to keep me grinding for a month straight on all that corn.

Exactly, the labyrinth sucks this year, no skin drops, have only gotten a few tonic drops and don’t even know if the infinite tonic drops this year and doubt it can be sold if it does, why spend all this time in the labyrinth for some stupid mini, why do they add all this crap and nothing good? MINI’s Suck Anet. Sell them on the TP and put the skins in game.

If this game hasn’t made huge changes at the end of season 1 of WvW, I’m telling everyone I know that is playing to start playing FF14 till ESO starts. Better shape up Anet. You got 7 weeks…

Ashadow.6874:

So I remember this game, being touted as not being a grindy game.

Is this a sign of things to come?

Should we start preparing to save 10-20,000 of every item in the game, so that we can possibly afford the new content as it comes out?

Am I going to need 15,000 snowflakes to make a new Christmas Mini.

Why are you doing this to the player base? Is it fun for you to tell us we are not going to get a grind-y game, and then smack us in the face with the biggest grind-fests possible?

Thanks for the fair game, fun, casual game. Oh wait…

Also, by the way casual players. You no longer matter.

I feel like I need to bring this up every week:

The game does not require grind to see content.

That’s all Anet ever meant by “We don’t want players to grind in GW2.”

Now that we have that cleared up, I’m a casual player. I work full time and play just long enough to get my laurel and a couple skill points.

This doesn’t bother me in the least.

Red Falcon.8257:

You have an entire month to collect those items.
Also, minipets aren’t BiS gear so who cares? If you really want them badly go farm, else don’t.
Nothing changes from a gameplay perspective.

In GW1 the FoW armor had the same stats as Droks armor and it required bazillions of ectos and shards.

And you could get it over your entire GW1 lifespan. You weren’t required to do it in a selected few weeks. So, irrelevant comparison.

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

Red Falcon.8257:

You have an entire month to collect those items.
Also, minipets aren’t BiS gear so who cares? If you really want them badly go farm, else don’t.
Nothing changes from a gameplay perspective.

In GW1 the FoW armor had the same stats as Droks armor and it required bazillions of ectos and shards.

And you could get it over your entire GW1 lifespan. You weren’t required to do it in a selected few weeks. So, irrelevant comparison.

No, it’s totally relevant. GW1 had a ton of grind. Hall of Monuments anyone? Title points?

Did you have to grind for the best gear?

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Did you have to grind for the best gear?

Best stats? No. Best skins? Yes.

I’d like to remind you that the PvE in this game is balanced around rares. (Yellow Gear)

Why not give rares the best stats then, and make the rarer tiers just funky colours?

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

Red Falcon.8257:

You have an entire month to collect those items.
Also, minipets aren’t BiS gear so who cares? If you really want them badly go farm, else don’t.
Nothing changes from a gameplay perspective.

In GW1 the FoW armor had the same stats as Droks armor and it required bazillions of ectos and shards.

And you could get it over your entire GW1 lifespan. You weren’t required to do it in a selected few weeks. So, irrelevant comparison.

The polar bear from Christmas would like to speak to you.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Why not give rares the best stats then, and make the rarer tiers just funky colours?

Because the gear plateau being that low would make the game stagnant. Art assets are expensive to create for 5 races, and it’s easier to have a linear gear curve that rewards you tangibly for your effort.

As long as the game balance doesn’t start going the direction of “enemies are tougher until you gear up to fight even tougher enemies to get even better gear” outside of fractals,
I’m fine with the vertical progression hitting a pink gear plateau.

So GW 1 was stagnant over all those years?

Pariah.8506:

Ashadow.6874:

So I remember this game, being touted as not being a grindy game.

Is this a sign of things to come?

Should we start preparing to save 10-20,000 of every item in the game, so that we can possibly afford the new content as it comes out?

Am I going to need 15,000 snowflakes to make a new Christmas Mini.

Why are you doing this to the player base? Is it fun for you to tell us we are not going to get a grind-y game, and then smack us in the face with the biggest grind-fests possible?

Thanks for the fair game, fun, casual game. Oh wait…

Also, by the way casual players. You no longer matter.

If you were ranting about BiS gear I’d wholeheartedly agree but a Christmas Mini?
That’s as vain as vanity items go, it contributes nothing to the actual gameplay so truth be told I don’t see a problem silly items being hard to get.

I wouldn’t see a problem with that either, except that the game pretty much revolves around stuff like mini’s, cosmetic items, and back gear. Once you hit 80, there’s not much else to do except to gather that stuff. It is pretty grindy when you see what Anet is really doing.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

So GW 1 was stagnant over all those years?

for the last 5 years or so, yes.

The funny thing about making these things take this many items is that for many people, the motivation to actually try to acquire these items is completely gone. For example, the 20 slot pail – at 15k candy corn, very few people will even bother trying – totally not worth the effort. On the other hand, had they been say, 2-3k candy corn – people would actually go “hmm, I could definitely get some 20-slot bags for some of my alts during this event – time to go find some candy corn!”

I hope they realize that the “grinder” crowd is not exactly a large audience waiting to throw $$ in their face – in fact, the people willing to grind are also probably most of the people who don’t spend any real money on gems.

Red Falcon.8257:

You have an entire month to collect those items.

It is flat out impossible to collect those (i mean nougats, fangs and skulls – candy is theoretically a borderline case, as it drops more often) by even most extensive farming. You have 28 days to farm 10k objects. Just do the rest of the math yoursef.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Why not give rares the best stats then, and make the rarer tiers just funky colours?

Think of it this way. For some people, stats are their cosmetics. It doesn’t matter if it’s pretty much negligible, seeing their stats go up by even just 1 or 2 points over others makes them happy like how seeing your character having a really flashy weapon makes you happy.

Ascended gear is for those people. I made my Ascended GS yday and lo and behold, it have me a grand total of about 70 damage over my previous 3k.

But I agree that this event is possibly the worst holiday event I’ve ever experienced in a game. There are no rewards really. All the stuff you can buy with the new mats costs less than th mats themselves.

Mackdose.6504:

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

Red Falcon.8257:

You have an entire month to collect those items.
Also, minipets aren’t BiS gear so who cares? If you really want them badly go farm, else don’t.
Nothing changes from a gameplay perspective.

In GW1 the FoW armor had the same stats as Droks armor and it required bazillions of ectos and shards.

And you could get it over your entire GW1 lifespan. You weren’t required to do it in a selected few weeks. So, irrelevant comparison.

No, it’s totally relevant. GW1 had a ton of grind. Hall of Monuments anyone? Title points?

Now hang on, don’t break up the GW1 nostalgia no-grind kitten with your logic buddy.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Why not give rares the best stats then, and make the rarer tiers just funky colours?

Think of it this way. For some people, stats are their cosmetics. It doesn’t matter if it’s pretty much negligible, seeing their stats go up by even just 1 or 2 points over others makes them happy like how seeing your character having a really flashy weapon makes you happy.

Ascended gear is for those people. I made my Ascended GS yday and lo and behold, it have me a grand total of about 70 damage over my previous 3k.

But I agree that this event is possibly the worst holiday event I’ve ever experienced in a game. There are no rewards really. All the stuff you can buy with the new mats costs less than th mats themselves.

But you get your own personal candy corn node for your home instance!!!! I mean, at let’s say an average of 5 candy corn a day from the node, it would only take you ~ 8.2 years to get a 20 slot pail!

I don’t know. There have always been minis like this in the entirety of the GW franchise. Mini Polar Bear in GW1 anyone? At least here it isn’t RNG. They are giving you a way to acquire it w/out luck being involved. It also gets rid of the massive influx of holiday items.

The thing I always ask myself when I want to get items that will take either time or a lot of money: Am I so drawn to that item that I need that to be my focus til I acquire it? If the answer is yes, then it becomes my sole focus til I get it. If the answer is no, I forget about getting it altogether.

bertiweber.9360:

Completely agree with the Thread Starter. GW was known for being fair and not being grindy like all other MMOs out there. People can play those MMOs, if they want hardcore, but GW should be mainly for casuals and enjoy the world… of course with some option for hardcores like legendaries, but not things like a whole ascended set, which give advantages

That’s nice and all but GW never was an MMO.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

So GW 1 was stagnant over all those years?

Yes, very much so.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

it’s only “grindy” if you want one of those specific rewards.

casual players looking for fun can have just as much fun as they did before…. and most casual players are smart enough to know they can’t chase every reward/title/achievement/item… that some things will simply be out of reach given their casual nature.

True, but the problem is with every single patch it’s becoming less that casuals can’t earn everything and more that they can’t earn anything.

Vol.5241:

bertiweber.9360:

Completely agree with the Thread Starter. GW was known for being fair and not being grindy like all other MMOs out there. People can play those MMOs, if they want hardcore, but GW should be mainly for casuals and enjoy the world… of course with some option for hardcores like legendaries, but not things like a whole ascended set, which give advantages

That’s nice and all but GW never was an MMO.

It was also extremely grindy.

90% of the playerbase has around 3500 achievement points or less.

50% of the playerbase has around 770 achievement points or less.

This shows two things:

1. There are probably a lot of deserted accounts.
2. That is how popular the PvE stuff is. Kitten, I am fairly deep in the 90% and play casual. People do grind less than most expect on the forums.

Ascended weapons and probably armor is something for the elitists, no but or or.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

90% of the playerbase has around 3500 achievement points or less.

50% of the playerbase has around 770 achievement points or less.

This shows two things:

1. There are probably a lot of deserted accounts.
2. That is how popular the PvE stuff is. Kitten, I am fairly deep in the 90% and play casual. People do grind less than most expect on the forums.

Ascended weapons and probably armor is something for the elitists, no but or or.

Or people play more than one game at a time. /shrug.

Look, I am working in QA.

I see bullkitten, when I get it on the table. And bullkitten always comes with a kittenload of excuses. Like ascended items.

Then you start to ask simple questions, like:

Why does ascended gear needs better stats?
Why is it now necessary to introduce grind for the best stats, when the last game worked without?
Why would you make them BoA?
Why is the best gear only meant for the top 10%?
Why would you turn your game in a game that copies all the games you tried to differ from?
And I could go on and on. Sooo many flaws. On the long run this will not even gain them profit (educated guess).

No doubt, the excuses will flow. But at one point, they will realize: “Hey, that is all just totally against what we wanted. We are doing ourselves and the customer no favour. Back to the drawing board.”

ANet Devs are just especially resilient… ^^

It seems this topic has been derailed on ascended talk. 10000 of the same object is grindy but not the grindy Anet has advertised about. It is a grind to get cosmetic items (GW1 had the same principle) but it is not a grind to get BiS gear. Anyone who says that it is a grind has either

1.) Hasn’t really got their ascended crafted
2.) Just going with what other people have said.

Ascended is time gated. Time Gated is not equal to grind. Hell I am sitting on tons of materials for more ascended weapons but I need to wait per day. Time gated content can be dodged by buying it. If you don’t want to buy it you got to wait. With this in mind I can make a decent number of weapons without grinding at all.

Grinding resources is still a grind. If it is time gated, even worse.

Now you have a time gated grind, welcome to the new world (that is the old one).

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Grinding resources is still a grind. If it is time gated, even worse.

Now you have a time gated grind, welcome to the new world (that is the old one).

At what point do you have to grind for materials? Hell i got a stockpile from just playing the game normally. If your grinding for the materials then your not playing right and should take a break.

Suddenflame.2601:

not the grindy Anet has advertised.

Grind is grind in the end. It doesn’t matter if it’s for BiS or cosmetics or a mini or whatever else.

Running your daily circle for ori and wood. What is the purpose of running to those nodes. Because you are on the way to somewhere?

So you are telling me I am doing it wrong if I do not spend half an hour a day running around gathering stuff instead of playing the game?
Are you serious, you can not see the grind that is right in front of your eyes?

It’s only grindy if you want it NOW. If you simply accumulate it during regular play and accept it’s a long term goal then it’s not.

And what item uses 10,000 of anything cause I’m not seeing any.

Behellagh.1468:

It’s only grindy if you want it NOW. If you simply accumulate it during regular play and accept it’s a long term goal then it’s not.

And what item uses 10,000 of anything cause I’m not seeing any.

You sir, need to reflect over the meaning of a grind in a game.

More candy corn.

Skan.5301:

Suddenflame.2601:

not the grindy Anet has advertised.

Grind is grind in the end. It doesn’t matter if it’s for BiS or cosmetics or a mini or whatever else.

Grind is grind true but Anet said no grind for BiS not cosmetic items. People are mad over the grind about the cosmetic items but Anet has already stated its stance on it. People have to read and listen to what is being said rather than assuming.

In the manifesto that people love to bring up constantly. Anet stated there is no grind for BiS gear but they never said there wouldn’t be a grind for anything else. They have held true to that statement. If you are grinding for ascended weapons then your just doing it wrong and should rethink your stragey. Like i said before: Time gated is not equal to grind.