Guild Wars 2

I’ve been reading these forums for a while, and responding to a few, and it seems the general consensus is that Anet can’t do right and there’s a lot to complain about.

Personally I really enjoy this game, I’ve tackled the content that took my fancy and ignored that which didn’t. I’ve more than got my money’s worth from what I paid and I really enjoy the social aspect since I joined a guild.
I come on here to share opinions with other players and I find it really disheartening to see constant negative threads. I do see the occasional positive/constructive one and I appreciate those, so thumbs up to those!

So really it boils down to one query from me:
If this game is really so bad then why are you people still playing ? It makes the forums less enjoyable for players like me who genuinely like the game.

Ravenmorghane.9287:

I’ve been reading these forums for a while, and responding to a few, and it seems the general consensus is that Anet can’t do right and there’s a lot to complain about.

Personally I really enjoy this game, I’ve tackled the content that took my fancy and ignored that which didn’t. I’ve more than got my money’s worth from what I paid and I really enjoy the social aspect since I joined a guild.
I come on here to share opinions with other players and I find it really disheartening to see constant negative threads. I do see the occasional positive/constructive one and I appreciate those, so thumbs up to those!

So really it boils down to one query from me:
If this game is really so bad then why are you people still playing ? It makes the forums less enjoyable for players like me who genuinely like the game.

“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.” —Winston Churchill

“GW2 is the worst MMORPG, except for all those other ones that have been created over the years.” —Me

Just because something is the best doesn’t mean it’s perfect. Look at America today: a morass of corrupt politicians, extremist interest groups, and entitled citizens. Yet it’s still the best form of government that’s been tried so far, by most accounts. People play the game because they enjoy some aspects of it, but enjoying the game doesn’t mean you can’t have criticisms. It’s not black and white; there’s always room for improvement, and as it stands GW2 would benefit from quite a lot of improvement. But it’s also true that there are many things that set the game far above what’s come before, at least for a certain demographic that’s grown tired of things in other MMOs.

On any given forum for any given game you will always find two groups of people:

1. The ones who are so mad about something that they actually get over their apathy and take the time to go online and complain about it.

2. The ones who are really into the game and want to discuss it with other likeminded individuals.

There is also usually a third group that really don’t warrant a mention but I will anyway:
3. Bored people who want to waste time, troll, etc.

I’m not saying the game is perfect, and I appreciate constructive criticism where its valid and rationally debated, but if a game really grieved me as much as people claim GW2 does, then I just stop playing and find something else to do with my time. Is that not the normal thing to do?

Ravenmorghane.9287:

So really it boils down to one query from me:
If this game is really so bad then why are you people still playing ? It makes the forums less enjoyable for players like me who genuinely like the game.

I’m not. I’m logging in to do dailies for laurels in case I do play again one day and want those for something. But that’s about it.
I continue to post here because I hope for better things for it. IMO, it has a lot of potential that’s just going to waste. I’m hoping to see that potential fulfilled.

It’s not that people hate the game and just want to complain. If they really did hate it they wouldn’t play and wouldn’t bother with the forums. Rather, they like the game, but see flaws — which is certainly natural to talk about on a forum.

Plus, the forums seem most alive during working hours: a lot of people are probably bored at work/school… it’s not like everyone’s complaining on forums instead of playing.

Honestly though, lately there has been a lot of stuff to be negative about.

Ravenmorghane.9287:

I’m not saying the game is perfect, and I appreciate constructive criticism where its valid and rationally debated, but if a game really grieved me as much as people claim GW2 does, then I just stop playing and find something else to do with my time. Is that not the normal thing to do?

Yes that is the normal thing to do.
For some reason I have yet to understand GW2 forums seems to attract a bunch of people who no longer play and feel compelled to tell the world how bad the game is and that people who do like it are blind fanboys.

I love the game but I can really only handle the forum in small doses

Players have invested a lot of time, money and emotions into this game, as such I see it perfectly fine for them to voice their concerns with the state if the game and future changes even if they come off as whiney

Ravenmorghane.9287:

So really it boils down to one query from me:
If this game is really so bad then why are you people still playing ? It makes the forums less enjoyable for players like me who genuinely like the game.

1) Some of it’s perception. People can be really upset about certain parts of the game. Doesn’t mean they hate the whole game but those parts they want to get off their chest.

2) Some people here don’t actually play anymore. They may hope that GW2 gets better while they clarify to Anet what should be changed either because there are parts of the game they like but not enough to outweigh the bad. GW2 also has the history of GW1. People can be a fan of Guild Wars 1 but hate what happened in GW2 because it’s very different.

3) Some people actually just like to post on forums. So even when they don’t play or do but agree with some points…regardless kittening on the forum is a form of entertainment to some as well. Some go as far as to troll to see what they can stir up.

4) Most people come to the forum because they are upset about something, not because they are happy. If they are happy with the game, they generally are playing.

Game forums, especially general forum, tend to be cesspools in any game. GW2 is no exception. My personal guess is that if CS was actually equipped to handle complaints, these forums wouldn’t have so much anger going on. I guess it’s a matter of cost savings as well…

If you look at my posts, some of them are definately “complaints” but I try and make it as constructive as possible, been doing that since release.

I love the game and I just want to see it better, that’s all.

Yeah well – it has been negative as of late.

With a separation created by harder content, changing build metas in pvp and wvw, and an introduction of ascended weapons (not so different when they added ascended gear).

Interestingly enough there are still people out there who want to have a discussion with like minded individuals.

But the playing part is a bit complicated I think. We play for different enjoyment, with different play styles. For me its not enough that I log in and do a few dungeons or events, I need a goal – something to tell myself that my characters are worthy of my time playing – like completing every Achievement point, or getting max stat items for equipment. With that in mind I still find that there are things in this game I really don’t like (QG for example, and exact build counters in pvp and wvw) but I force myself to do them for the sake of AP and worthiness of my characters. I don’t typically vent on the forums like now, but I feel like I’m drowning in content which I label mandatory (because of my playstyle), in which I have to go through hours of abuse to obtain.

Unless you are a masochist, abuse is not a fun thing to go through, especially if you only care about the outcome, not the challenges of getting to the top. And that’s why I think some players come on the forum to complain – because they feel their play style is being ignored and that they are being abused.

I envy your ability to enjoy the game as much as you do, but I hope that you continue to play the game in such a willing fashion, despite calls by forum posters that certain content is not enjoyable. GW2 is such a beautiful game, with a beautiful world, worthy challenges (some may not be satisfied unlike me), and vibrant activities.

The Devs don’t get enough credit for their hard work.

I enjoy the game much more for some reason when I stay away from the forums. That being said, I suppose I should not have even posted this.

The thing is, everyone that is enjoying the game (mass majority) you don’t see them on the forums as much compared to everyone else (minority) that complain about every little thing down to the color of their weapons to how a 2 week content update is not good enough for them. Please, take a step back and look at this game compared to every other MMO out there and how they treat their community. This company listens to their community much more then others and are quite transparent with what they can be with.

Ravenmorghane.9287:

So really it boils down to one query from me:
If this game is really so bad then why are you people still playing ?

I, for one, am still hopeful that Anet will make something that I personally find to be fun. That’s why I some times come here to complain when something is not fun and why I still play the game — I’m just all hopes nowadays.

The sudden evolution of GW2 from launch ’till now, from something I enjoyed to something I cannot stand playing seriously outside doing dailies, is just sad.

So why am I still playing? Because I’m hopeful — but you won’t see me doing anything significant anymore like dungeons, fractals, WvW, PvP, etc. Living Story just killed the fun out of me, but I’m still hopeful.

What is meant by ‘constructive’, exactly?

I see QQ/Rage/Rant posts that are far more ‘constructive’ than others in which the OP may be calm, cool and collected. I would rather see angry posts that bring to light the game’s problems (even if they offer no solution) than to see posts that do nothing but gleefully compliment the game and it’s creators.

I don’t come to the forums to pat people on the back or to sing heartwarming campfire songs. I come to the forums to complain about the game’s flaws in hopes those problems will be rectified.

You may see the rant posts as ‘negativity’ but I see them as the exact opposite. People wouldn’t be coming to the forums to complain if they didn’t care a great deal about the game and it’s direction. Our passion for the game is what spurs on our forum rants.

Brimstar.9036:

Please, take a step back and look at this game compared to every other MMO out there and how they treat their community. This company listens to their community much more then others and are quite transparent with what they can be with.

This makes me want to laugh, bitterly.

Hi. I’m Palador, and I’m a former long-term player of City of Heroes, which was run by Paragon Studios. THAT was a group that knew how to work with their community to improve their game and actually make friends. And then, one Friday, NCSoft came in and fired everyone. The next big update which was pretty much ready to go was never released to live servers. Game servers shut down 3 months later.

I don’t intend to take this out on ANet, even though they also work for NCSoft. However, NCSoft IS the reason I don’t hold back on what I say to them about what’s wrong with the game. CoH and Paragon Studios were just the latest in a series of games that NCSoft has killed off and swept under the rug, never to be seen again. GW2 could very easily become their next victim.

They don’t get nice from me because they can’t afford it. If they don’t meet whatever goals NCSoft has dreamed up for them, then one morning they’re going to get the ax so fast that ANet will have no chance to split off to become its own company. The game will disappear, and that will be that.

If someone’s playing with fire, you don’t kindly suggest that maybe they might want to consider precautions to avoid getting burned. You either yell at them, or you grab some popcorn and grab a seat to watch.

I love this game. (dodge rolls insults in zerker gear)

But the thing is that IMO the game has many problems with it that shouldn’t exist, and sometimes I feel they sorta go ahead with stuff even if people aren’t too happy with it.

Personally, my problems are usually usability related though. This game just has a very crappy UI with massive screen clutter and less than helpful tooltips/in-game help. Also, take the achievements screen. It’s very bad if an achievement tells you to do X in different zones but doesn’t tick off what zones you did like any other sane, modern UI would, leaving it to memory. Like no? That’s why I didn’t even bother with the air balloon chest one. I’m highly skeptical people created it and thought it was acceptable.

I don’t really play games for enlightenment, but I do not want to be hassled by the game being unable to present itself properly.

Although I would say a number of oversights in the game do cause people grief, such as wvw achievements which are unreasonable or challenges that you only have 2 weeks to do. I’m all for challenges, but it does create a case where you feel like you miss out on a lot if you don’t constantly log in.

I’ve always expressed very harsh criticism of games I play. That’s just how I am. The ones that manage to survive it though; I feel I have some value. But on the other hand, people wouldn’t be so passionate about it unless, well, they actually cared.

Take the whole vertical progression debacle. There’s quite a few of us that like the gearing status quo as it is, and so encroaching on it can lead to some hostile reactions.

The other thing is that I felt the game at first was pretty newbie unfriendly. In most games I’ve played, the story mode or somthing serves as a tutorial for gameplay. This… well, I don’t really recommend new players to even bother with the story too much, since it really doesn’t help.

On the other hand, there’s a lot of people that have unreasonable, and possibly contradictory demands. I’ll just leave it with that, but I’ll just that logic isn’t a very common trait on either side of the equation. And then I see posts that whine about stuff only 13 year olds whine about. (No offense to any actual 13 year olds though)

Brimstar.9036:

Please, take a step back and look at this game compared to every other MMO out there and how they treat their community. This company listens to their community much more then others and are quite transparent with what they can be with.

True, they listen a lot.

They listen to everyone who says, “We want more grind! More progression! More farming!”.

They listen to everyone who buys all those RNG boxes.

They listen to all the exploiters who don’t want to be banned for exploiting the EotM (exploit of the month, also called Eoten).

I wish ArenaNet would listen less to their community.

I always get a snicker when I bring up these boards to my guild. The picture I get is, these forums are incredibly negative and full of whiner and the other forums are more positive and civil. Not saying that’s the case but it seems to be the perception of this place.

Actually the real sentiment might be worse than what you saw in the boards since much of it has been moderated away.

Some of the critiques have merit too

1) Shallow dumb stories. Kinda like watching pokemon and its monster of the week or uh… biweekly.

2) Slowness in addressing sPvP balance with some builds being so much more effective while requiring very little risk and skill to play, thanks to AI, AoE and Fire and Forget condition damage.

3) Difficulties and cost of raising competitive alts, locking many casuals to a single playstyle.

4) Gear treadmills. I think this was the final and last straw for me. It’s the stupidest concept to hook players in, while requiring very little investment from the company. Hey look, the players are bored, why not add 10% more to these numbers – that’ll do the trick! Well how about more skills, better story, better dungeon or heck even a “Looking For Group” tools would be much better appreciated. But guess that’s way too much to ask for.

The problem is ANET got its priorities confused and the game is like a big ball of mud with no clear vision.

It’s so true that these forums are toxic. Only reason I’m here in the forums is because I’m away from home due work and I don’t have a performance laptop capable of playing the game. I’m already missing the game and my guildies and can’t wait to get back home to play!

But for the past 5 days, all I’ve read are disheartening whines from others in the forum, be it the game difficulty (claims that game is TOO easy..? Last I checked, my death records was about.. 680 deaths? I must really blow in this game :/), lore, game aesthetics, micro-transactions i.e. gemstore, LS direction, etc.

I’ll say this for sure. I can’t wait to get home to play GW2!

You’re kidding me, right? So now we have negative posts about negativity? Really?

Negativity comes from people having too big of expectations from GW2 :/ they want it to be a hardcore challenge like SWTOR/Rift/WoW etc so they raise their expectations so high. GW2 is meant to be mindless fun, and it is FUN!

Palador.2170:

Brimstar.9036:

Please, take a step back and look at this game compared to every other MMO out there and how they treat their community. This company listens to their community much more then others and are quite transparent with what they can be with.

This makes me want to laugh, bitterly.

Hi. I’m Palador, and I’m a former long-term player of City of Heroes, which was run by Paragon Studios. THAT was a group that knew how to work with their community to improve their game and actually make friends. And then, one Friday, NCSoft came in and fired everyone. The next big update which was pretty much ready to go was never released to live servers. Game servers shut down 3 months later.

I don’t intend to take this out on ANet, even though they also work for NCSoft. However, NCSoft IS the reason I don’t hold back on what I say to them about what’s wrong with the game. CoH and Paragon Studios were just the latest in a series of games that NCSoft has killed off and swept under the rug, never to be seen again. GW2 could very easily become their next victim.

They don’t get nice from me because they can’t afford it. If they don’t meet whatever goals NCSoft has dreamed up for them, then one morning they’re going to get the ax so fast that ANet will have no chance to split off to become its own company. The game will disappear, and that will be that.

If someone’s playing with fire, you don’t kindly suggest that maybe they might want to consider precautions to avoid getting burned. You either yell at them, or you grab some popcorn and grab a seat to watch.

This is an amazing post, holy crap.

Equinox.4968:

Ravenmorghane.9287:

I’ve been reading these forums for a while, and responding to a few, and it seems the general consensus is that Anet can’t do right and there’s a lot to complain about.

Personally I really enjoy this game, I’ve tackled the content that took my fancy and ignored that which didn’t. I’ve more than got my money’s worth from what I paid and I really enjoy the social aspect since I joined a guild.
I come on here to share opinions with other players and I find it really disheartening to see constant negative threads. I do see the occasional positive/constructive one and I appreciate those, so thumbs up to those!

So really it boils down to one query from me:
If this game is really so bad then why are you people still playing ? It makes the forums less enjoyable for players like me who genuinely like the game.

“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.” —Winston Churchill

“GW2 is the worst MMORPG, except for all those other ones that have been created over the years.” —Me

Just because something is the best doesn’t mean it’s perfect. Look at America today: a morass of corrupt politicians, extremist interest groups, and entitled citizens. Yet it’s still the best form of government that’s been tried so far, by most accounts. People play the game because they enjoy some aspects of it, but enjoying the game doesn’t mean you can’t have criticisms. It’s not black and white; there’s always room for improvement, and as it stands GW2 would benefit from quite a lot of improvement. But it’s also true that there are many things that set the game far above what’s come before, at least for a certain demographic that’s grown tired of things in other MMOs.

Best……..Post……….Ever……..

I think most of the people that post on these forums (including the Negative Nacy’s Vayne) truly enjoy a lot of what GW2 has to offer. As Equinox stated in his post however, there is always room for improvement. Many of us define “improving GW2” in different ways though and I’m certain there are more than a few internal debates on this subject as well. I will be the first to admit that GW2 is a good game. A good game, not a great game. I consistently attempt to get all the internet gamers I know to play. I also attempt to get everyone that I know that quit to return. As it stands out of the many players I know from GW1 and other MMO’s I am the only person left playing the game. OP if anything this is what you should consider to be disheartening. I think many players signed up for something that Anet just didn’t deliver upon. The bottom line is that that is massive room for improvement in GW2.

To be honest I think the change in philosophy had a lot to do with the decline from GW1 to GW2. In GW1 is was all about making a great game. The best game they could with the tools and the infrastructure they had to work with. GW2 on the other hand does everything they can to milk their customers of money. Its no longer about “Let’s make a great game for our customers to be enthralled and proud of”. It’s now about “How can we take the most amount from our customers”. I don’t blame them because they are a for profit company but in reality hoe much milk do you honestly think the cow will provide if you don’t care for it properly?

Palador.2170:

Brimstar.9036:

Please, take a step back and look at this game compared to every other MMO out there and how they treat their community. This company listens to their community much more then others and are quite transparent with what they can be with.

This makes me want to laugh, bitterly.

Hi. I’m Palador, and I’m a former long-term player of City of Heroes, which was run by Paragon Studios. THAT was a group that knew how to work with their community to improve their game and actually make friends. And then, one Friday, NCSoft came in and fired everyone. The next big update which was pretty much ready to go was never released to live servers. Game servers shut down 3 months later.

I don’t intend to take this out on ANet, even though they also work for NCSoft. However, NCSoft IS the reason I don’t hold back on what I say to them about what’s wrong with the game. CoH and Paragon Studios were just the latest in a series of games that NCSoft has killed off and swept under the rug, never to be seen again. GW2 could very easily become their next victim.

They don’t get nice from me because they can’t afford it. If they don’t meet whatever goals NCSoft has dreamed up for them, then one morning they’re going to get the ax so fast that ANet will have no chance to split off to become its own company. The game will disappear, and that will be that.

If someone’s playing with fire, you don’t kindly suggest that maybe they might want to consider precautions to avoid getting burned. You either yell at them, or you grab some popcorn and grab a seat to watch.

I’m sorry City of Heroes closed, but there are many factors at work in that situation that don’t exist in this situation. For one thing, no one really knows why that game closed down. It’s a mystery because we were never told.

It wasn’t making that much money but it wasn’t losing money either. There are all sorts of rumors about a disupte between Paragon and NcSoft with regards to the future of the game and that might have had something to do with it.

But Guild Wars 2 is making significantly more money than CoH did, and I suspect it will continue to make significantly more money.

And if you’re a business you don’t really close down the game that represents the bulk of your profit.

So that leaves the second part of your statement about pulling punches. You would then have to know, really know, that your advice on how to run a company is better or more informed than the company actually producing the game. I don’t know if that’s the case.

From my point of view, game developers have far more stake in the game than any individual player. They may get things wrong sometimes, but that doesn’t make players better at deciding that a company should and shouldn’t do. In fact, sometimes player pressure can ruin perfectly good games.

It’s sort of already happened to this game to some extent.

So before we talk about pulling punches or not pulling punches, we first have to decide if what we’re saying is actually helping the game. From my point of view, a lot of what’s said on these forums would be a disaster for this game.

mtpelion.4562:

On any given forum for any given game you will always find two groups of people:

1. The ones who are so mad about something that they actually get over their apathy and take the time to go online and complain about it.

2. The ones who are really into the game and want to discuss it with other likeminded individuals.

There is also usually a third group that really don’t warrant a mention but I will anyway:
3. Bored people who want to waste time, troll, etc.

Groups 1 and 3 can be distinguished by looking at threads like the one on the front page about 3.5 million sales.

If you go to a thread about a specific issue – say, the upcoming magic find changes – and find someone being negative, chances are he’s in group 1. Mad about the change and having a bit of a rage.

But if you go to a thread like the 3.5 million sales one, and find people being negative, it’s pretty obvious that they’re just trolls, don’t have any specific issue or complaint, and are just looking for a place to whine and kitten and annoy the people who are actually here because they play GW2.

The uhh… Complaining (atleast in my case) ….All stems from these things that WERE WORKING just fine a few months ago. It’s not a matter of “Oh boohoo they aren’t adding what we really want them to add next”…. No, rather it’s the stuff we Bought and PAYED FOR, this complete game at launch and the parts that were mostly complete, And of course those missing chunks they promised they’d wedge in soon.

Well guess what… we had to give up on complaining about those, obviously. B/c there’s just no energy left to keep bumping the same “Where is this?? You promised us it 10 months ago!” threads. And hey, if you’re so darn fragile and sensitive to negative vibes then Gratz b/c there’s a lot less of those threads now b/c the rest of us just Gave UP. Be happy then b/c that’s one less thing for you to Ironically complain about complaining about complaining about. ….Complainception … BWAAAAAMM. No seriously, respond right now and give credit where it’s due here… Admit you’re happy that a lot of that complaining has subsided into the ether. Do it…

….waiting…

Yeah, that stuff for whatever reason, just couldn’t be done in a few months or something? I dunno, they haven’t said and I think most of us are pretty sick of speculating on it ourselves so long as we never get any straight answers on it.

Okay
…moving on then….

How about just not being …. completely BLIND then? No J/k that’s hyperbole but seriously even the Whiteknighters can look at the content being pushed out now and be like …. Well okay there’s obviously some major Effort being put somewhere right? Yes I said EFFORT! And Polish too. …Or They’re atleast keeping the UI artists pretty honkin’ busy… right? Being Charitable enough here for the sensitive folks? Let me know if I’m missing anything, I won’t leave ya haging like they’ve been doing to us.

• So those things they said they would do…. no progress at all
• All this new shiny stuff they never hinted at… TONS of effort.
• I’m guessing b/c they’re just having more fun building it??
• Okay whatever, no one wants to have a job they can’t have fun in…
• can certainly sympathize with that.

Meanwhile … and yes this is the point I’m getting to… sorry kept ya waiting so long for it it. But hey you made a thread dedicated to criticizing ALL our postings? So you must be a big Reader and if you haven’t even gotten this far then you’d just be a little skimmer amirite? …MEANWHILE, all that content we bought the game for… is gradually getting broken as a side effect somehow. Bugs everywhere. So many more DE’s not completing or getting stuck or just plain becoming impossible. Nevermind unrewardding, we got over that. This is a case where the whole reason we bought the game in the first place…. isn’t even accessible like it used to be. That is not a case of frivolous complaining as you allege it to be, Sir/Madam … No this is “We just want our old content & grouping back plz”… or atleast an explanation on why it got messed with so badly. Same thing with Class nerfs … like 90% of them were all for sPvP which a lot of people are looking at and saying “WHY?” Why ruin so many fun playstyles people were comfortable with for some conquest mode that most people just never spent any time in anyway?

It’s not just a bunch of chicken littles and malcontents doing this. It’s people who were mostly very satisfied with stuff the way it was. Try this: Imagine you bought a Car and one day you went into the Garage, and instead there’s a just a Toaster there. ….Would you be GRATEFUL about that??? Is that what you’re criticizing us for? Being miffed by this toaster that only has 1 gear?

Ravenmorghane.9287:

If this game is really so bad then why are you people still playing ? It makes the forums less enjoyable for players like me who genuinely like the game.

Because it’s not as bad as_some of the other MMO’s out there at the moment.

I guess when something better gets released a fair few people will be off.

(Can’t believe this forum filter, had to put as_some, because I couldn’t put it with a space).

Elbegast.6970:

What is meant by ‘constructive’, exactly?

I see QQ/Rage/Rant posts that are far more ‘constructive’ than others in which the OP may be calm, cool and collected. I would rather see angry posts that bring to light the game’s problems (even if they offer no solution) than to see posts that do nothing but gleefully compliment the game and it’s creators.

I don’t come to the forums to pat people on the back or to sing heartwarming campfire songs. I come to the forums to complain about the game’s flaws in hopes those problems will be rectified.

You may see the rant posts as ‘negativity’ but I see them as the exact opposite. People wouldn’t be coming to the forums to complain if they didn’t care a great deal about the game and it’s direction. Our passion for the game is what spurs on our forum rants.

I don’t think it’s the negativity which bothers me as much as "Guild Wars 1 was never this grindy’. Or “Prophecies was freaking awesome and there were never any problems ever.” Rose-colored nostalgia glasses annoy me a lot more than simply calling out flaws in Guild Wars 2.

It also bothers me when hyperbole creeps into complaints and it goes a bit far, such as to declare one thing “the worst thing they could ever do”.

It bothers me when people take as fact the ANet devs either are only out to take from their wallets or ruin a game their company is pretty much riding on.

People complaining about drop rates, farmers, CoF runs, thieves needing a nerf in WvW, warriors needing more nerfs everywhere, the sylvari are ruining everything forever, and King Adelbern’s crown is the wrong shape don’t bother me nearly as much

Ravenmorghane.9287:

So really it boils down to one query from me:
If this game is really so bad then why are you people still playing ? It makes the forums less enjoyable for players like me who genuinely like the game.

I’m glad someone is enjoying the game. I wish many more were, but as you can tell, ArenaNet have lost quite a lot of goodwill and faith from many onetime fans.

Honest answer to your question:

I’m not still playing. I was a GW fan for years, and so had high expectations of GW2. I still come here to express my opinions about GW2 in the hopes that my voice, along with many others, will be heard by ArenaNet and they start making the game into the one they implied we’d get.

After the past 10 months (last November was the first time I had much negative to say about GW2) I’ve come to the conclusion that ArenaNet have their agenda, and it doesn’t include making positive changes away from grinding, zergs, poor storytelling, good community interaction and relations, and the like. It does include trying to wave that gem store in as many faces as possible.

So at this point, my voice is no longer for ArenaNet. It’s for the next small, up-and-coming studio that’s paying attention to what’s going on here, and learning from it, as ArenaNet should be, and aren’t.

Palador.2170:

Brimstar.9036:

Please, take a step back and look at this game compared to every other MMO out there and how they treat their community. This company listens to their community much more then others and are quite transparent with what they can be with.

This makes me want to laugh, bitterly.

Hi. I’m Palador, and I’m a former long-term player of City of Heroes, which was run by Paragon Studios. THAT was a group that knew how to work with their community to improve their game and actually make friends. And then, one Friday, NCSoft came in and fired everyone. The next big update which was pretty much ready to go was never released to live servers. Game servers shut down 3 months later.

I don’t intend to take this out on ANet, even though they also work for NCSoft. However, NCSoft IS the reason I don’t hold back on what I say to them about what’s wrong with the game. CoH and Paragon Studios were just the latest in a series of games that NCSoft has killed off and swept under the rug, never to be seen again. GW2 could very easily become their next victim.

They don’t get nice from me because they can’t afford it. If they don’t meet whatever goals NCSoft has dreamed up for them, then one morning they’re going to get the ax so fast that ANet will have no chance to split off to become its own company. The game will disappear, and that will be that.

If someone’s playing with fire, you don’t kindly suggest that maybe they might want to consider precautions to avoid getting burned. You either yell at them, or you grab some popcorn and grab a seat to watch.

For the record, and whoever’s reading…I feel exactly the same way.

Wildstar looks interesting. I won’t be playing it. Why? Because of NCSoft’s treatment of CoH, and what’s been going on with GW2 lately.

Although this post does shed some light as to why ArenaNet might be behaving the way they have been…

Palador.2170:

This makes me want to laugh, bitterly.

Hi. I’m Palador, and I’m a former long-term player of City of Heroes, which was run by Paragon Studios. THAT was a group that knew how to work with their community to improve their game and actually make friends. And then, one Friday, NCSoft came in and fired everyone. The next big update which was pretty much ready to go was never released to live servers. Game servers shut down 3 months later.

I don’t intend to take this out on ANet, even though they also work for NCSoft. However, NCSoft IS the reason I don’t hold back on what I say to them about what’s wrong with the game. CoH and Paragon Studios were just the latest in a series of games that NCSoft has killed off and swept under the rug, never to be seen again. GW2 could very easily become their next victim.

They don’t get nice from me because they can’t afford it. If they don’t meet whatever goals NCSoft has dreamed up for them, then one morning they’re going to get the ax so fast that ANet will have no chance to split off to become its own company. The game will disappear, and that will be that.

If someone’s playing with fire, you don’t kindly suggest that maybe they might want to consider precautions to avoid getting burned. You either yell at them, or you grab some popcorn and grab a seat to watch.

You know, I got a friend who would be playing GW2 if it weren’t for NCsoft in the background. For similar reasons (former CoX player) . . .

Just saying.

Ravenmorghane.9287:

So really it boils down to one query from me:
If this game is really so bad then why are you people still playing ? It makes the forums less enjoyable for players like me who genuinely like the game.

As some one Pretty down on the Game, i have to say the main reasons i Play Guildwars 2 are these.

My friends still play here..
There aren’t (at this time) much choices in other MMO’s..
I paid a fair bit of money so i feel i kinda must get something from it.
Its ok to play in short bursts although the bursts are getting shorter..

MrRuin.9740:

Ravenmorghane.9287:

So really it boils down to one query from me:
If this game is really so bad then why are you people still playing ? It makes the forums less enjoyable for players like me who genuinely like the game.

I continue to post here because I hope for better things for it. IMO, it has a lot of potential that’s just going to waste. I’m hoping to see that potential fulfilled.

The exact same reason why I comment here.

Ravenmorghane.9287:

So really it boils down to one query from me:
If this game is really so bad then why are you people still playing ? It makes the forums less enjoyable for players like me who genuinely like the game.

A lot of my ‘problem’ with GW2 is I feel it fell very short of it’s potential. Constructive feedback is not negativity btw, even if you vehemently disagree with said feedback.

I still play, albeit less than any other MMO I have ever played by several powers of ten because it’s the best quasi-MMO available atm.

Aint no thang yo.

We’re still playing because we’re hoping one day, just maybe, anet will notice their mistakes and the game will be wonderful, until then mundane task over and over and over again.

MrRuin.9740:

Ravenmorghane.9287:

So really it boils down to one query from me:
If this game is really so bad then why are you people still playing ? It makes the forums less enjoyable for players like me who genuinely like the game.

I’m not. I’m logging in to do dailies for laurels in case I do play again one day and want those for something. But that’s about it.
I continue to post here because I hope for better things for it. IMO, it has a lot of potential that’s just going to waste. I’m hoping to see that potential fulfilled.

Hmm, so basically you are playing the game.
As far as the company is concerned you are a customer that logs in on a daily basis and you are thus a very welcome statistic.

And like that there are so many people who claim to have left the game or aren’t playing anymore, but still consistently log in and provide activity numbers, thinking they are making a difference when in reality they are being beneficial.

Charak.9761:

We’re still playing because we’re hoping one day, just maybe, anet will notice their mistakes and the game will be wonderful, until then mundane task over and over and over again.

Agree except for the “still playing” bit. I probably log in once a week for 10 minutes to chat with some people. That’s about it. I certainly don’t play. I haven’t since several LS releases ago. Nothing has tempted me to leave Lion’s Arch in quite some time.

Constructive feedback is as much about form as content. At the same time, replies often are at fault for making sure the thread becomes non-constructive.

In my view, constructive threads would look more like this:

Mr X.123

(Subjective Statement): I think/feel that fleeting content is ruining my experience of GW2.

(Argument 1) The reason I feel that way is because there is only a small window for that content and that means I have to play it then and cannot do it later. It gives me the feeling that Anet is forcing me to play in those time frames or I will lose out on content I would like to play at a time that I can.

(Argument 2) I am a completionist and I set a goal for myself to complete all achievements. I missed one LS update and now I can never get those achievement points.

(Suggestion) I would like that some of the LS content comes back or that Anet gives u another way to experience it and/or gives us a way to complete these achievements.

Now remember this is all opinion, so any statement is subjective. There is no general truth that can be claimed, it’s about your view. So no need to bring in things like “most people” or “everybody knows”. Also lashing out at Anet is not constructive. The reason you are upset maybe constructive but lashing out is not.

Then to be constructive there need to be arguments. Not facts. There are no facts to claim, just your personal experience and reasons. Why do you feel that way and what is it that keeps you from enjoying something.

Lastly, if you have any, make suggestions. But know that suggestions you make may not be realistic. It may however give developers a direction.

So, all in all, creating a constructive post takes a bit of thinking. That’s why we see so little of it. We all get emotional about things but the key is to explain the emotion instead of venting it.

Equally replies shouldn’t be about telling people why they are wrong or defending the game or Anet. Constructive feedback is about trying to understand the person’s point of view. So asking questions about why a person feels a certain way. Now it’s constructive to offer alternate viewpoints, but as suggestions, not as arguments. Suggestions may not work.

It’s not constructive to say: “Nobody is forcing you to be a completionist” or “don’t let the door hit you in the rear”

It could be constructive to say: Well, I a struggle with that as well. What I do is I focus on the achievements that are not related to temp content. I see them as sub achievements and that way I don’t feel the need to complete them so I can enjoy the rest of the game.

But it’s still a suggestion, it may or may not work.

Disclaimer: I don’t claim to be an expert, nor do I claim that I am as constructive as I could or should be.

Gehenna.3625:

Constructive feedback is as much about form as content. At the same time, replies often are at fault for making sure the thread becomes non-constructive.

I absolutely agree. Saying “this sucks” or fingerpointing and namecalling are pretty well pointless. There are obviously a number of posts just like that, or are pretty well empty of anything constructive. All they do (for me, anyway) is identify the poster as somebody not to take seriously (side note: like it or not, spelling and grammar play a big part in this also, non-native English speakers excepted).

I think, however, there is a lot of discussion going on around here, both positive and negative towards GW2, that’s perfectly reasonable and rational. Several of the “negative” threads going at the moment are quite enjoyable reads, with only the occasional kneejerk post interspersed.

I think the idea is for people to say what they like, and what they don’t, and ArenaNet to get a feel for what people think, and take that into consideration in the future. Or if not ArenaNet, someone else who may be paying attention

Superfast.5901:

Negativity comes from people having too big of expectations from GW2 :/ they want it to be a hardcore challenge like SWTOR/Rift/WoW etc so they raise their expectations so high. GW2 is meant to be mindless fun, and it is FUN!

It is supposed to be the sequel to guild wars 1.
So far it dosn’t even compare to it.
A game created all those years ago created those expectations.

Ravenmorghane.9287:

I’ve been reading these forums for a while, and responding to a few, and it seems the general consensus is that Anet can’t do right and there’s a lot to complain about.

Personally I really enjoy this game, I’ve tackled the content that took my fancy and ignored that which didn’t. I’ve more than got my money’s worth from what I paid and I really enjoy the social aspect since I joined a guild.
I come on here to share opinions with other players and I find it really disheartening to see constant negative threads. I do see the occasional positive/constructive one and I appreciate those, so thumbs up to those!

So really it boils down to one query from me:
If this game is really so bad then why are you people still playing ? It makes the forums less enjoyable for players like me who genuinely like the game.

I still play the game for four reasons:

1. I have invested over 1100 hours into the game, probably around 200 US dollars into it..The amount of hype leading up to the game, and all of the hype I bought into was so high, that it is hard to let go.

2. There is nothing else better on the market at the moment. I could go back to WoW for true gear/character progression..they do it better. But I don’t want to. I can play a completely sandboxy game like Defiance, which I am starting to… I could go to a game with better combat like Tera or Neverwinter, which I do on ocassion. But I come back to GW2 because overall across all facets of an MMO, it IS the better option on the whole.

3. After southsun and the birth of enormous zerg farming began in GW2, I realized I needed a better machine. I spent 900 dollars on a new rig. I want to get use out of it at the moment.

4. I am waiting for Everquest Next(possibly TESO as well). Once that drops, Im gone like the wind. The amount of hype and the magnitude of letdown this game has given me, and its current direction and seemingly future direction of the game, I do not want to be a part of.

Those are the reasons I still play.

cesmode.4257:

4. I am waiting for Everquest Next(possibly TESO as well). Once that drops, Im gone like the wind. The amount of hype and the magnitude of letdown this game has given me, and its current direction and seemingly future direction of the game, I do not want to be a part of.

Those are the reasons I still play.

What makes you think the same thing won’t happen with Everquest Next or TESO? I’m just curious.

So many games are hyped and never reach the expectations of the fan base. Guild Wars 2 didn’t meet my personal expectations either….but I saw what it was and found I could enjoy it on its own terms.

I have no illusions it can be exactly what I want or expect.

Oh theres no reason to make me believe that EQN or TESO won’t fall short on hype. But this is a fact: EQ and EQ2 shaped the MMO industry to what it is today. People can say Ultima and such were the fathers of the MMO, but the EQ franchise paved the way for WoW. WoW catapulted the MMO name. You now have the birth of many MMOs.

So I think that EQN can and will re-shape the face of MMOs, again. I had hoped that with GW1’s success, arenanet was up to the task with GW2. Painfully, not so, in my opinion.

And if these other games fall short, it’ll be the same deal Im sure. Maybe I’ll give up gaming for good, have been burned by one too many games in recent years.

What would be fantastic is if an MMO dev would query players, masses of players, and ask them “what do you want in an MMO…Fantasy, real world, gear treadmill, features, QoL features, end game systems, what kind of PVP, graphic style, etcetc”. Sounds like a good idea…that way you get a lot of feedback on what we truely want, rather than spending 5 years in dev developing a game you THINK we will want. I also think that SOE is doing as close to that as it comes with EQN. Weekly polls which will determine if female dwarves get beards, and EQ landmark..where we build zones that WILL make it into the game.

Then GW2…they give us forums, and create threads and encourage feedback, but seemingly listen to none of it. Arenanet needs to do a 180 and march back to Q3-Q4 of 2012.

Edit: I want to add that I hope this post is not shortsightedly removed and infracted because I talk about other games in it. The OP wants to know why theres so much negativity. Talking about the hype of GW2 and comparing the development direction of this game to others in the same genre has relevance to that discussion.

I really don’t think EQN is going to do what EQ did for the genre. That is, push it to another step. For instance, just how much of EQ1 are we still using and how much do we look back and groan at the fact they thought it was good design?

Not to mention EQ also spawned “working as intended” as a sarcastic bite every time players found a quest which did not work and could be demonstrated not to work, then get stealth-patched to work and GMs would pretend it was always fine.

By the way, the whole “poll the players” you mentioned EQN is doing? I really think this is either going to be a horrible trainwreck waiting to happen . . . or something mediocre which makes fans of the old games go “WTF?”

Elbegast.6970:

What is meant by ‘constructive’, exactly?

Constructive criticism consists of offering well-crafted and thoughtful advice and/or possible alternatives to something one finds less than satisfactory, even though such advice and/or alternatives, no matter how well-crafted or thoughtful or even ingenious, are rarely taken into consideration by the creator(s) of the less than satisfactory thing. For example:

Constructive: ‘If only you would tell good stories instead of bad stories, more people would enjoy them.’

Not constructive: “As I watched the story unfold, I could feel my brain cells attempting to flee in terror as the massive ridiculousness of it all began to crush them, one by one. Some made it as far as my left nostril, prompting a passerby to say, ‘You have a booger.’ Oh, the the look on his face when I replied, ‘No, sir. That is my brain.’”

One must also endeavor to express one’s criticisms in a positive manner. Like so:

• ‘You guys create really good examples of poorly-developed characters!’

• ‘If there was a Guinness Book of World Records record for creative ways to avoid actual growth in an MMO, you guys would be in there for sure! Kudos!’

I hope these examples will help others construct more constructive criticisms.

Tachenon.5270:

Elbegast.6970:

What is meant by ‘constructive’, exactly?

Constructive criticism consists of offering well-crafted and thoughtful advice and/or possible alternatives to something one finds less than satisfactory, even though such advice and/or alternatives, no matter how well-crafted or thoughtful or even ingenious, are rarely taken into consideration by the creator(s) of the less than satisfactory thing. For example:

Constructive: ‘If only you would tell good stories instead of bad stories, more people would enjoy them.’

Not constructive: “As I watched the story unfold, I could feel my brain cells attempting to flee in terror as the massive ridiculousness of it all began to crush them, one by one. Some made it as far as my left nostril, prompting a passerby to say, ‘You have a booger.’ Oh, the the look on his face when I replied, ‘No, sir. That is my brain.’”

One must also endeavor to express one’s criticisms in a positive manner. Like so:

• ‘You guys create really good examples of poorly-developed characters!’

• ‘If there was a Guinness Book of World Records record for creative ways to avoid actual growth in an MMO, you guys would be in there for sure! Kudos!’

I hope these examples will help others construct more constructive criticisms.

And those are examples of what sound constructive and helpful while being infuriatingly vague. Also the kind of stuff I hated receiving as critiques when I was in my writing workshops trying to learn how to do that wonderful and beloved thing such as writing.

Superfast.5901:

GW2 is meant to be mindless fun, and it is FUN!

In all the times the ANet team has promoted this game, I don’t once ever recall them saying “Come join GW2, where mindless zerging is our goal and you don’t have to even think to play our game”.
I highly doubt the initial intention was to make a game that was mindless.

As the saying goes, “be sincere in what you say and do, improve the negativity about you, only than you will have less complaints”

So the question that raises,
has Arena.net been sincere with their words and actions?
has Arena.net improved the negativity of guild wars 2 world?

Answer any of them, you will find the answer.