Guild Wars 2

o.O

omg
…i found that recipe, noticed it wasnt on the wiki, got 5 giant giftboxes from it, and thought to myself… nope never again

(i was looking for the recipes that i now know promote the new runes and sigils, which btw also dont seem to be worth anything…)

Santa “RNG” Claus will make many people angry this christmas.

He is a very evil entity in GW2.

Well… c’mon don’t be sad, don’t be sad, don’t… …. …

Could you get Josh to add a recipe for the new exotic aquabreather since he’s adding forge recipies?

FrostyBou.5491:

Could you get Josh to add a recipe for the new exotic aquabreather since he’s adding forge recipies?

He just did!

10 each t2-5 snowflakes -> 5 giant wintersday gifts!
I opened 7500 giant gifts and got 1 aquabreather.
So all you need to do is to buy 60 stacks of each t2-5 snowflake and start forging/open gifts!

Awesome, isnt it.

Just kidding.
One forge attempt costs 50 silver atm if you buy the flakes on buy order, while 5 gifts cost 30 silver.

I might do a couple of hundred forges to check out the droprates on the toymaker and dolyak tonic and to see, if the toy specific endless tonics also drop.

I don’t want to be a buzzkill but…can we haz things that don’t put such weight on grinding/farming?

Yoroiookami.3485:

I don’t want to be a buzzkill but…can we haz things that don’t put such weight on grinding/farming?

I dont follow, whats the neccesary grind here?

Wanze.8410:

Yoroiookami.3485:

I don’t want to be a buzzkill but…can we haz things that don’t put such weight on grinding/farming?

I dont follow, whats the neccesary grind here?

I meant Wintersday in general.
“Do the same activity x amount of times to get y amount of currency to purchase this reward that has been here for 2 years.”
In this case it’s farming Snowflakes or gold, depending on what you prefer.

I’m not saying that doing something to gain something is bad, but I’m pretty sure that there are better ways of working towards a goal than this. It basically becomes a “who can farm the most snowflakes” competition, with better rewards for people who log in sooner and spend more time grinding. I remember keeping most of my snowflakes for the entire year just to sell it with profit. Not sure if it’s a valid complaint. I just don’t find it that enjoyable.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Wanze.8410:

Yoroiookami.3485:

I don’t want to be a buzzkill but…can we haz things that don’t put such weight on grinding/farming?

I dont follow, whats the neccesary grind here?

I meant Wintersday in general.
“Do the same activity x amount of times to get y amount of currency to purchase this reward that has been here for 2 years.”
In this case it’s farming Snowflakes or gold, depending on what you prefer.

I’m not saying that doing something to gain something is bad, but I’m pretty sure that there are better ways of working towards a goal than this. It basically becomes a “who can farm the most snowflakes” competition, with better rewards for people who log in sooner and spend more time grinding. I remember keeping most of my snowflakes for the entire year just to sell it with profit. Not sure if it’s a valid complaint. I just don’t find it that enjoyable.

Well, if thats how you see it, I feel sorry for you.

I dont understand why people already complain about some kind of grind when the patch isnt even live for 24 hours and is still running for 4 weeks.

Can you tell me exactly which rewards you would like to receive that seem to be out of reach?
Of course it always comes down to how much time someone spends in game but im pretty sure that you can finish half of all achievements within 2 weeks, if you only do your wintersday dailies 10 times. After 2 weeks, you will know which activity of wintersday you enjoyed, how much they reward you and what its worth for you to complete the rest of the achievements or go for other rewards, like gold or achievement points.

Thanks, agent Josh. Time to test my luck.

.

Wanze.8410:

Yoroiookami.3485:

Wanze.8410:

Yoroiookami.3485:

I don’t want to be a buzzkill but…can we haz things that don’t put such weight on grinding/farming?

I dont follow, whats the neccesary grind here?

I meant Wintersday in general.
“Do the same activity x amount of times to get y amount of currency to purchase this reward that has been here for 2 years.”
In this case it’s farming Snowflakes or gold, depending on what you prefer.

I’m not saying that doing something to gain something is bad, but I’m pretty sure that there are better ways of working towards a goal than this. It basically becomes a “who can farm the most snowflakes” competition, with better rewards for people who log in sooner and spend more time grinding. I remember keeping most of my snowflakes for the entire year just to sell it with profit. Not sure if it’s a valid complaint. I just don’t find it that enjoyable.

Well, if thats how you see it, I feel sorry for you.

I dont understand why people already complain about some kind of grind when the patch isnt even live for 24 hours and is still running for 4 weeks.

Can you tell me exactly which rewards you would like to receive that seem to be out of reach?
Of course it always comes down to how much time someone spends in game but im pretty sure that you can finish half of all achievements within 2 weeks, if you only do your wintersday dailies 10 times. After 2 weeks, you will know which activity of wintersday you enjoyed, how much they reward you and what its worth for you to complete the rest of the achievements or go for other rewards, like gold or achievement points.

I’m not saying it’s out of reach. I just find it to be extremely tedious and boring. I feel especially bad for people who want to do the christmas achievements and have to do each of the activities 3x as much as last year.
In other words, it’s possible to do, but it only rewards people who are willing to suffer through those activities.

The only fun thing for me this year is the jumping puzzle. And that’s probably because it’s available once a year and is fairly challenging.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Santa “RNG” Claus will make many people angry this christmas.

He is a very evil entity in GW2.

RNGdeer! :p

I do find this annoying because in prior years you could choose which endless tonic you were trying for (for me, it’s plush gryphon because you can do jumping puzzles). Now, not only is it a crapshoot to see if you get a tonic, but there’s another roll to find out which tonic you get.

Wanze.8410:

FrostyBou.5491:

Could you get Josh to add a recipe for the new exotic aquabreather since he’s adding forge recipies?

He just did!

10 each t2-5 snowflakes -> 5 giant wintersday gifts!
I opened 7500 giant gifts and got 1 aquabreather.
So all you need to do is to buy 60 stacks of each t2-5 snowflake and start forging/open gifts!

Awesome, isnt it.

Just kidding.
One forge attempt costs 50 silver atm if you buy the flakes on buy order, while 5 gifts cost 30 silver.

I might do a couple of hundred forges to check out the droprates on the toymaker and dolyak tonic and to see, if the toy specific endless tonics also drop.

So basically the aquabreather has a droprate similar to mini gwyn at halloween? I’m off this week, I was hoping that there was something to work towards with this holiday event, but absolutely everything reward wise is hidden behind incredibly low RNG droprates… sigh

FrostyBou.5491:

Wanze.8410:

FrostyBou.5491:

Could you get Josh to add a recipe for the new exotic aquabreather since he’s adding forge recipies?

He just did!

10 each t2-5 snowflakes -> 5 giant wintersday gifts!
I opened 7500 giant gifts and got 1 aquabreather.
So all you need to do is to buy 60 stacks of each t2-5 snowflake and start forging/open gifts!

Awesome, isnt it.

Just kidding.
One forge attempt costs 50 silver atm if you buy the flakes on buy order, while 5 gifts cost 30 silver.

I might do a couple of hundred forges to check out the droprates on the toymaker and dolyak tonic and to see, if the toy specific endless tonics also drop.

So basically the aquabreather has a droprate similar to mini gwyn at halloween? I’m off this week, I was hoping that there was something to work towards with this holiday event, but absolutely everything reward wise is hidden behind incredibly low RNG droprates… sigh

As far as i know, gwyn was 1/200k or something like that, i got an aquabreather with 7500 bags, while actually making lots of profit doing so. The breather was just a bonus.

Made 50 forges, got 1 gift dolyak and one toymaker tonic.
Not much glittering snowflakes around atm, so might have to wait a bit until the next badge.

So the recipe is 10 x t2 through t5 Snowflakes (40 snowflakes each pop?) for 5 gifts and the chance at something else?

The last time they added a special reward through RNG, I spent hundreds of thousands of clicks trying to get a mini.

Thanks, but no thanks, Anet.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Gaile Gray.6029:

while it usually will produce a gift box, may produce one of those valuable tonics, instead!

I wonder which part of this 15 page thread about RNG and this 13 page thread about Halloween mini, or the multiple threads about Black Lion Chests, Mystic Forge and Tequatl weapons made the designers think that players love RNG.

Only John Smith actually reads those threads. It makes me wonder how much input he has on design choices. Gaile just announced this as being a “good thing”.

They get too much money from these RNG schemes. You really think they are going to change anything? LOL!

Gamblers fund this game more than anything else or this would have all died back in 2012 when the first RNG chest uproar happened.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Wanze.8410:

Made 50 forges, got 1 gift dolyak and one toymaker tonic.
Not much glittering snowflakes around atm, so might have to wait a bit until the next badge.

Wow, congrats!

Next 50 forges, only gifts.
I guess i was lucky.

Yeah from the Wow! from Gaile I expect you got insanely lucky…

Which brings us again to the insane RNG for the average person. You have the cash to do things like that, or open 7.5K gifts. the average person might only be able to open 1K by the end of the event. what is there for them to work towards?

FrostyBou.5491:

the average person might only be able to open 1K by the end of the event. what is there for them to work towards?

I opened over a stack of giant gifts in a couple hours yesterday. I wasnt even trying either, PLUS that was dealing with funky and bugged toypocalypse maps.

I bought 250 of each tier and give the roulette a try.

21 gold spent, got back 125 gift which sell for 7 gold. Net loss 14 gold.

Good luck everyone.

is this only for 2 tonics “Endless Toymaker and Endless Gift Dolyak”?
or is there any hidden thing? (like the endless doll tonic, etc. for the new collection)

Leetsura.3507:

I wonder which part of this 15 page thread about RNG and this 13 page thread about Halloween mini, or the multiple threads about Black Lion Chests, Mystic Forge and Tequatl weapons made the designers think that players love RNG.

I logged in just to quote this.

i logged in to quote you, quoting that guy n_n

For what it’s worth, this is how you announce a new forge recipe.

No RNG either.

thehipone.6812:

For what it’s worth, this is how you announce a new forge recipe.

No RNG either.

Yes there’s RNG. You mostly get gift boxes, you might if you are incredibly lucky get an endless tonic.

NTDK.4897:

is this only for 2 tonics “Endless Toymaker and Endless Gift Dolyak”?
or is there any hidden thing? (like the endless doll tonic, etc. for the new collection)

I only ever got those 2.
The gifts also drop an account bound consumable that lets you choose which one of the 5 endless toy tonics you want.

That are the 5 account bound tonics, which are needed for the collection, which awards the endless christmas box tonic.
So those 5 can be acquired via crafting (artificer400 recipe for 100 bloodstone dust, 20 elonian wine and 100 t6 snowflakes, ~12g), but the kicker are the recipes (rare drop from gifts) which go for 10-30g atm. You need to farm less than 20 t6 snowflakes per day, the dust should be no problem either. The only gold costs are 25g for the elonian wine and that is less than 1g per day. Right now, i wouldnt bother too much about the high prices of the recipes, they will fall down to 50s-2g at least in 2 weeks or so.
If you are acquiring your mats at a slow pace of 20 flakes and 1g per day, you dont have to bother about the recipes anyways for now and can wait either for a lucky drop or buy them once their price goes down. Crafting those tonics is propably one of the main sinks for t6 flakes atm.
I am pretty sure, that everybody will be able to complete this collection if they complete their wintersdays dailies at a casual pace and be rewarded with 6 endless tonics along the way.

Giant gifts also have a very rare chance to drop a choice of endless toy tonics and a rare chance of dropping the toymakers tonic, which is cheap on the tp anyways.

Then there are 2 forge recipes, i think.
One is this one and propably is the biggest sink for t2-5 flakes atm. Output is either 5 giant gifts, a endless gift dolyak tonic and the endless toymakers tonic.
Possibly it also puts out the chest to select one of the toy tonics or a random one of them.

The other forge recipe are 4 different of the 5 endless toy tonics and the output is either the 5th tonic that you didnt use, the gift dolyak tonic or the toymakers tonic.

I didnt do much of the events yet, so im not sure if some of those also reward endless tonics in any form as well. I wouldnt be surprised.

To be honest, I’d have made the recipe use those one-use tonics/the new runes/sigils that are quickly piling up by the thousands instead of Snowflakes. I can see them becoming another huge glut of unwanted goods that just sits on the TP forever. RNG is fine when it’s used as a sink to get an excess of goods out of the economy, but it needs to be targeted to the right area.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Gaile just announced this as being a “good thing”.

Yes, I believe it is a good thing.

No one said that having a tonic recipe in the game isn’t a “good thing”. Definitely obtainable things are good things.

But as history shows, even with thousands of snowflakes flushed several precursors worth of gifts opened, you can still find yourself on the statistically justified zero-result streak which leads to severe dissatisfaction, which is not something people look for in games. That’s why RNG-obtainable things (with the current pure-RNG system) are not a good thing.

Gaile Gray.6029:

• As with everything, this is a voluntary activity. Nothing requires a player to do this. No one “needs” one of these tonics to play. But if they want one, they now have a means to get it.

You know what? No one “needs” to play this game. People do so for fun. And they just might want one of the tonics for fun. But crazy RNG really isn’t fun for the majority of people.

I do know of one entity that needs something though. ANet needs customers. But hey, go ahead and tell them how they don’t need anything in the game, because that will help.

I do realise this is a bit of a pointed and strong post, but I really found your response and reasoning to be pretty unhelpful and ignoring the ever-present problems with RNG and awards in this game. :/

Nothing is about need considering we don’t even need to play this game. It’s all about fun.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Gaile just announced this as being a “good thing”.

Yes, I believe it is a good thing. Here’s why:

• The items needed to make the recipe from prior years no longer are fully available. This means that that players could have been locked out of highly-sought-after items (unless someone happened to retain items from previous years).
• With the new recipe, those who choose to do so may try for the popular tonics and other rewards. As you can see in this thread, both tonics are confirmed as available and forge-able.
• As with everything, this is a voluntary activity. Nothing requires a player to do this. No one “needs” one of these tonics to play. But if they want one, they now have a means to get it.

In the end, this recipe is voluntary. The item is desirable but not essential. Players may decide for themselves if going for a particular item is right for them. In the end, I believe that it really is that simple.

This is redundant. It tickles me every time voluntary is used to fortify a discussion about what’s available in a video game, when everything about gaming is voluntary. It actually bothers me that you guys keep adding stuff like this when it’s been pretty clear that people have a problem with it. I really do wonder if very much of the decision makers read the forums ever.

Gaile Gray.6029:

In the end, this recipe is voluntary. The item is desirable but not essential. Players may decide for themselves if going for a particular item is right for them. In the end, I believe that it really is that simple.

You can say that about any grind – after all, it’s only a game, nothing here is really essential or necessary. This doesn’t make low chance RNG reward systems any better.

Lothirieth.3408:

Gaile Gray.6029:

• As with everything, this is a voluntary activity. Nothing requires a player to do this. No one “needs” one of these tonics to play. But if they want one, they now have a means to get it.

You know what? No one “needs” to play this game. People do so for fun. And they just might want one of the tonics for fun. But crazy RNG really isn’t fun for the majority of people.

I do know of one entity that needs something though. ANet needs customers. But hey, go ahead and tell them how they don’t need anything in the game, because that will help.

I do realise this is a bit of a pointed and strong post, but I really found your response and reasoning to be pretty unhelpful and ignoring the ever-present problems with RNG and awards in this game. :/

Nothing is about need considering we don’t even need to play this game. It’s all about fun.

Currently, you can get a stack of consumables from 6/7 wintersday transformations on the tp for less than 20 silver. If you plan on having fun with the transformation all year round, just buy a stack. It takes as much space as the permanent one and seems to be way less hassle to obtain. So there really isnt a functional need to get the 5 single endless toy tonics, just get a permanent toymaker tonic and a stack of gift dolyak and you got 6/7 transformations covered for a year or beyond with only 2 inventory slots.
As great as some people might find the chritmas box tonic from the collection achievement, I can hardly see anybody getting more than a couple of hours of fun out of it over the year. If its too much hassle to you to complete this achievement to have 5 hours of fun next year, you shouldnt do it. As you said, you seem to have better things to do in game than “grind” wintersday for the tonic, so I am confident that you will also find something else to occupy yourself with in the game next year for an additional 5 hours.

Gaile Gray.6029:

In the end, this recipe is voluntary. The item is desirable but not essential. Players may decide for themselves if going for a particular item is right for them. In the end, I believe that it really is that simple.

The game is voluntary as well, as is buying gems. The devs would do well to remember this when they focus on RNG-based rewards which are ultimately frustrating and not fun for players.

C’mon, guys. Ms. Gray is just relaying the information she’s given in the most positive light she can. That’s her job. Let’s not be nasty to her.

Gaile…. why does Anet hate us casual players?

sniffle

Why?!

Still, thank you for telling us. I shall go stand in front of the forge and cry now (as soon as my client finishes updating again).

Gaile Gray.6029:

• As with everything, this is a voluntary activity. Nothing requires a player to do this. No one “needs” one of these tonics to play. But if they want one, they now have a means to get it.

I think this is highlights the frustration many have with RNG. Many players WANT these things, and appreciate having a way to TRY to get it, but it is by no means guaranteed. They WANT an item and spend a lot of time trying to get it only to come up empty.

Unfortunately RNG seems to be the only way to create scarcity… In an effort to make some items special and valuable, items have to be placed behind either a time gate, a RNG gate or both. If they are not, then EVERYONE would get one.

But in the end, there will be some people who will try their hardest to get a treasured transformation potion, and won’t be able to, because they happened to have bad luck. (Others will get multiple items.) This leads to some VERY disappointed players, but does suit the purpose of the game designers to limit the number of items. But I can’t help think that there must be some way to obtain both outcomes so that those who don’t want an item don’t have to pursue it, but those who do have a way that they CAN obtain it, not just obtaining a CHANCE to get it.

Guhracie.3419:

C’mon, guys. Ms. Gray is just relaying the information she’s given in the most positive light she can. That’s her job. Let’s not be nasty to her.

I would have been written up with that statement when I used to work in the retail industry. I can just picture it now working at the deli, “why aren’t these wings boneless?” “Well… you don’t have to buy them.”

Guhracie.3419:

C’mon, guys. Ms. Gray is just relaying the information she’s given in the most positive light she can. That’s her job. Let’s not be nasty to her.

Which is why my comment was directed at the devs, not her.

NTDK.4897:

is this only for 2 tonics "Endless Toymaker and Endless Gift Dolyak"?
or is there any hidden thing? (like the endless doll tonic, etc. for the new collection)

The endless doll tonic recipe is for sale in the BLTP. (Last I checked)

Super pro game dev tactics: make RNG solution. Additionally, offer it twice as expensive from some vendor. (guaranteed) Few should complain.

I’m not exactly you are supposed to get from the mystic forge.

But all the item is buyable from the trading post isn’kitten So you don’t really need to partake in the RNG.

In addition to the new mystic forge recipe, anyone figure out the other new one that seems to promote the sigil/rune to the next tier?

So far for the Major Sigil/Rune I have found:
Mystic Coins
Major Sigil/Rune
Pristine Snowflake

I have no idea what the last piece is, has anyone figured this out?