Guild Wars 2

To OP, I hate to say it but I suspect you have had experience with more in-depth video games in general (anything that isn’t on a tablet or phone) than the new players that Anet made these changes for. I don’t think these changes are meant for someone with your skill level.

DonQuack.9025:

An opinion of a lowbie friend of mine http://s4.postimg.org/w5s5znyr1/screenshot_2014_09_10.png

Sounds about right.

Paradox.1380:

i’m confused? It took me maybe 30 minutes max to hit level ten (the level at which at you unlock all your basic weapon skills) getting to 15 where the rest of it and a utility unlock took me another 20ish minute because the way the personal story steps are now that got me almost all the way to 15, and finishing dailies pushed me over. I had no problems with this system at all and the best part is I don’t have to go back and kill 20-30 monsters for every weapon. I just go and they are all unlocked.

Yes, but if you are completely brand new to the game you now have a tons of skills you’ve not practiced with or learned along the way. How is that helpful for new players if that was one of Anet’s goals? I can also just as easily argue that I could get my dailies done within those same 30 minutes and get through my first story step AND unlock all or most of my weapon skills while learning them AND have already started learning about my utilities and some of my other heal skills.

Vayne.8563:

I think as you get further on in the leveling process, you’ll see exactly why it’s good.

Can you just “spoil” it for me? Because as I said I might be wrong, so I’m just curious what are the benefits for a player (new & alt-leveler) starting this slow when he gets further in the leveling process.

I think Vayne means that the rewards for leveling up are an improvement and he’s right about that (except the obvious bug about downscaling but it’s a different issue). But it doesn’t remove the fact that the early game is a nightmare for veterans and newcomers alike.

Traveller.7496:

I think Vayne means that the rewards for leveling up are an improvement and he’s right about that. But it doesn’t remove the fact that the early game is a nightmare for veterans and newcomers alike.

Just rolled a assuri mesmer and took it to lvl 10 in an hour, broken up to do other things in game. No nightmare, smooth as it was when I did a mesmer over a year ago (personal bias, I really enjoyed mesmer from lvl 2 to 80 in game). Get nice shinny level up and a dodge chest now but otherwise the nightmare is in the heads of the people who have not tried the new system.

Nihilus.3015:

All their testers were over the age 40

I’m 39 and I find these updated flat out kittened.
More like their testers were playing Clash of Clans and Candy Crush Saga.

Traveller.7496:

You obviously have experience from other games before, and you know how to observe your environment and adapt to your surrounding situation. And you know how to write coherent sentences on a forum.

I like how the necessary answer to this concern now is, “You obviously aren’t dumb enough to understand.”

Yargesh.4965:

Traveller.7496:

I think Vayne means that the rewards for leveling up are an improvement and he’s right about that. But it doesn’t remove the fact that the early game is a nightmare for veterans and newcomers alike.

Just rolled a assuri mesmer and took it to lvl 10 in an hour, broken up to do other things in game. No nightmare, smooth as it was when I did a mesmer over a year ago (personal bias, I really enjoyed mesmer from lvl 2 to 80 in game). Get nice shinny level up and a dodge chest now but otherwise the nightmare is in the heads of the people who have not tried the new system.

Yes, they made leveling faster. But it’s only for the starter zone. After that it’s the normal pace (correct me if they sped up leveling for the entire game).

And yes, I tried it. I found it extremely tedious with stripped game mechanics and limited options of gameplay, even if I level faster in the beginning. Sure, a new player won’t probably know the difference. But putting veterans through that on their Nth characters is too much. We have paid our dues, we don’t need hand-holding.

Traveller.7496:

Yargesh.4965:

Traveller.7496:

I think Vayne means that the rewards for leveling up are an improvement and he’s right about that. But it doesn’t remove the fact that the early game is a nightmare for veterans and newcomers alike.

Just rolled a assuri mesmer and took it to lvl 10 in an hour, broken up to do other things in game. No nightmare, smooth as it was when I did a mesmer over a year ago (personal bias, I really enjoyed mesmer from lvl 2 to 80 in game). Get nice shinny level up and a dodge chest now but otherwise the nightmare is in the heads of the people who have not tried the new system.

Yes, they made leveling faster. But it’s only for the starter zone. After that it’s the normal pace (correct me if they sped up leveling for the entire game).

And yes, I tried it. I found it extremely tedious with stripped game mechanics and limited options of gameplay, even if I level faster in the beginning. Sure, a new player won’t probably know the difference. But putting veterans through that on their Nth characters is too much. We have paid our dues, we don’t need hand-holding.

Then use one of the many other methods that veterans (myself included) use. EoTM crafting, dailies putting into dungeons if your group is willing at the end. None of that has changed.

I can do all that. But you said the tediousness is in the heads of those who haven’t tried the new system, and I gave you an opposite example.

Point is starting a new character felt fun a few days ago. Even if the trait system update was unpleasant, it still felt like a worthwhile pursuit. But now I just don’t feel like doing it anymore. And I don’t think I’m alone.

Traveller.7496:

I can do all that. But you said the tediousness is in the heads of those who haven’t tried the new system, and I gave you an opposite example.

Point is starting a new character felt fun a few days ago. Even if the trait system update was unpleasant, it still felt like a worthwhile pursuit. But now I just don’t feel like doing it anymore. And I don’t think I’m alone.

No, obviously from the wailing and gnashing of teeth you are not. I am just saying from my own experience it was absolutely no problem getting the character up and running. You out of the levels so fast it is meaningless to worry about the bloody push 1 many are moaning and groaning about.

Leveling to 10 was never hard even in the old system. But at least then you had access to all your class F1- abilities, first trait (okay this was 11), couple skills you could buy, all weapon skills… see my point here? Why drag these things out?

About fast leveling: does it slow down to normal rate after level 15, when you leave the starter zone? I would think you no longer get half a level by finishing one heart then. I’d be interested to know this. If it suddenly changes to a normal leveling rate, the new players might feel a pretty big slump.

Yargesh.4965:

Traveller.7496:

I can do all that. But you said the tediousness is in the heads of those who haven’t tried the new system, and I gave you an opposite example.

Point is starting a new character felt fun a few days ago. Even if the trait system update was unpleasant, it still felt like a worthwhile pursuit. But now I just don’t feel like doing it anymore. And I don’t think I’m alone.

No, obviously from the wailing and gnashing of teeth you are not. I am just saying from my own experience it was absolutely no problem getting the character up and running. You out of the levels so fast it is meaningless to worry about the bloody push 1 many are moaning and groaning about.

the system doesnt stop gating at level 10.
your last utility is pushed up by 15 levels
you dont have access to two of your downed skills
you cannot swap weapons
you have like 2 underwater skills
do you have all your f1-f4 skills?
you dont even have your first utility at level 10

its not just a beginner thing it goes all the way to level 40.
your a fan, you want everything to be ok, you hate people talking bad about your game. I get that, doesnt change the fact that they have not improved the game with this update. And it doesnt just effect level 1-10, it effects the whole process.

but eh if you like it thats fine, just accept that many others do not, and they have reasons.

They think that if you have more than 1 skill to spam at level 1, that maybe too complicated.

You may trip one finger over another and sprain them? It’s all for your own good sonny, mummy ArenaNet knows what is best for you.

Nihilus.3015:

All their testers were over the age 40

I’m well into my 40s and GW2 is the first MMO I’ve ever played (unless you want to count text MUDs in the 1980s). Also not a big fan of computer RPGs or twitch games. Civilization or Sim City is the type of game I’d normally play.

One if the things that sucked me in is that I could do a lot quickly and the game gated me very little. The game didn’t keep telling me, “No, you cant do that yet.”. In fact, the most gated aspect of the game for me, personal stories and dungeons, are what I’ve spent the least time in. Don’t like artificial gates. I’m fine with the game telling me I’ve gone too far or bitten off too much by killing my character, instead.

In some ways, that’s good for ANet because I spent a few hours playing the Archeage beta to see if it was any better (the sandbox elements appeal to me) and the reason I gave up on it wasn’t the disconnects or the more boring combat (made worse by the weapon abilities being gated so I could only do 2-3 attacks for quite a while) but because gathering and other things were gated by labor points which refreshed fairly slowly. How noisy it was trying to “help” me also was very annoying. If GW2 had been more like that when I started, there was a good chance I would have given up on it, too.

This grindy, gatey, cloyingly helpful style of play may be just what people are looking for in Asia or maybe you have marketing research that says it’s just what you need to reach an untapped audience in NA or Europe, but it does nothing for me but make the game worse.

misterman.1530:

Nihilus.3015:

All their testers were over the age 40

Whoa. I’m 52, junior. I could just as easily say that the testers were teenagers and 20-somethings who have been coddled all of their lives, and have the attention spans of gnats…oooo….squirrel!

LOL I think they got their testers from FB, the farmsville players

DarkSpirit.7046:

They think that if you have more than 1 skill to spam at level 1, that maybe too complicated.

You may trip one finger over another and sprain them? It’s all for your own good sonny, mummy ArenaNet knows what is best for you.

Yes pressing 1 is way too complicated. And pressing w to move… information overload!!
bah!

My first impressions of the changes of the NPE can be summed up in one line:

It worked before you broke it.

So I gave leveling a new character another try today, this time instead of a Sylvari Necromancer, I decided to go with a Norn Guardian. Norn are epic, and I’m usually a fan of heavy armor classes that can do some bashing (my main is a Warrior).

My one redaction in my complaints is the personal story. Vayne argued the merits on having the chapter quests all played right after each other, and despite my dislike of the grindy feeling in-between, I do like the chapters being played as a whole, and am willing to sacrifice the grind being laid in more thick in-between.

However…

1) Weapon gating + No offhand weapon til level 7: I still dislike this heavily. My solution would be to at least allow the first offhand to unlock with the second main weapon skill, and second offhand with the third. Still paces the introduction of things, but allows offhands to come into play fairly early.

2) Underwater gating: Underwater skills should unlock at the same pace and time as land skills. I ended up exploring underwater in the starting zone, and didn’t like that I could be attacked but not defend myself. A Norn should never have to run from his enemy, dagnabbit! They fight!

3) Skill point challenges: Should be available from the start. And they should appear on the map, along with vistas. I never found the map to be cluttered, and at the very least even if the map starts off without them, I should have the option to check this back on if I’m an experienced player and I know better.

4) Gated downed options: The downed state, as mentioned many times by many people, should be a tutorial. Knowing that I have an option to fight back at later levels makes me grumble when I realize I can’t do it in the beginning. The dodge tutorial is a nice, simple addition (with a loot reward to boot!), so a downed state tutorial in the game opening would be a nice way to introduce it without depriving players of the ability.

5) Despite several claims otherwise, leveling to 15 has not been a half hour deal at all, even with hearts and events. I imagine some routines are better than others, but at this point, I have not noticed a huge difference in the time it takes to level in the beginning, only more bold pronouncements that I’ve reached the next level.

Overall, I am still enjoying the personal story (around level 68 on my main, so just finished retaking Claw Island!), but still much more reluctant to start new stories. So the changes above would be my suggestions to kind of smooth things a bit. My sense is once I’ve gotten to dungeons and reach level 80, I’ll have a bit more insight. So onward, to adventure!.

Nihilus.3015:

All their testers were over the age 40

I’m in that ‘wrong side of 40’ bracket.

I don’t even conceive of this as a game anymore….. it’s more like Second Life with Achievement Points to me.

Good virtual place to timeout from stress and challenge and spend some time with friends as all ‘big tent’ games ultimately are.

Gaming is to be found in niche products nowadays and less and less under the big tent.

All the ‘gamers making it especially for gamers’ hype in the world isn’t going to change that anytime soon.

jonoth.2308:

So I gave leveling a new character another try today, this time instead of a Sylvari Necromancer, I decided to go with a Norn Guardian. Norn are epic, and I’m usually a fan of heavy armor classes that can do some bashing (my main is a Warrior).

My one redaction in my complaints is the personal story. Vayne argued the merits on having the chapter quests all played right after each other, and despite my dislike of the grindy feeling in-between, I do like the chapters being played as a whole, and am willing to sacrifice the grind being laid in more thick in-between.

However…

1) Weapon gating + No offhand weapon til level 7: I still dislike this heavily. My solution would be to at least allow the first offhand to unlock with the second main weapon skill, and second offhand with the third. Still paces the introduction of things, but allows offhands to come into play fairly early.

2) Underwater gating: Underwater skills should unlock at the same pace and time as land skills. I ended up exploring underwater in the starting zone, and didn’t like that I could be attacked but not defend myself. A Norn should never have to run from his enemy, dagnabbit! They fight!

3) Skill point challenges: Should be available from the start. And they should appear on the map, along with vistas. I never found the map to be cluttered, and at the very least even if the map starts off without them, I should have the option to check this back on if I’m an experienced player and I know better.

4) Gated downed options: The downed state, as mentioned many times by many people, should be a tutorial. Knowing that I have an option to fight back at later levels makes me grumble when I realize I can’t do it in the beginning. The dodge tutorial is a nice, simple addition (with a loot reward to boot!), so a downed state tutorial in the game opening would be a nice way to introduce it without depriving players of the ability.

5) Despite several claims otherwise, leveling to 15 has not been a half hour deal at all, even with hearts and events. I imagine some routines are better than others, but at this point, I have not noticed a huge difference in the time it takes to level in the beginning, only more bold pronouncements that I’ve reached the next level.

Overall, I am still enjoying the personal story (around level 68 on my main, so just finished retaking Claw Island!), but still much more reluctant to start new stories. So the changes above would be my suggestions to kind of smooth things a bit. My sense is once I’ve gotten to dungeons and reach level 80, I’ll have a bit more insight. So onward, to adventure!.

Well, I’m glad someone liked something I said. lol

I’ll be interested to see what it’s like after some adjustments as well (which I’m sure will come).

Vayne.8563:

Well, I’m glad someone liked something I said. lol

I’ll be interested to see what it’s like after some adjustments as well (which I’m sure will come).

At least some of us like what you said, its just not all of what you said will be liked always. Cheer up man!.