Guild Wars 2

Ashabhi.1365:

If you think this is truly that bad, go try another “free” game for a while and see what a real cash shop is like.

When I last played Aion (a year and a half ago, perhaps it’s different now), the only way to change your toon’s hairstyle after character creation was by using the all-in-one cosmetic change kit – and there was no way to pay for this with in-game currency. You HAD to fork over a few bucks.

LOTRO has an in-game “barbershop” for hair, but they have plenty of other cosmetic perks in their cash shop – cloaks, exclusive mounts, armor skins – and while you can earn their cash shop currency (“Turbine Points”) in-game, it takes a lot longer to earn enough to buy anything substantial than it does in GW2 via gold-to-gems.

I prefer the GW2 system, personally. Of course, I do wish that some of these gem store features were free, or at least more readily available in-game. But at least I have the option to work towards buying whatever upgrade I want with in-game currency if I don’t want to use cash. I’ve already earned a name-change ticket, two bank tabs, an extra character slot, some armor skins, and a few other gemstore items by merely playing the game. The first one especially is something that I would most likely have to pay for in any other game.

Astral Projections.7320:

Machiavel.6042:

Astral Projections.7320:

Machiavel.6042:

Astral Projections.7320:

Imo if new characters/account holders could get these new hairstyles for free, then all the people who have been playing since launch would be complaining about that. It puts ANet in a lose lose situation. I think they handled it right. No free new hairstyles for brand new characters/accounts. Everyone has to pay (except the people who get a free hairstyle kit from the 5k achieve chest, which is eventually available to everyone).

They did it before, and they’re not bankrupt right now…

But now you want to tell me that “they’ll lose a lot of money” by doing it ?

Guess they’re stupid as kitten. Must explain a lot then…

Where did I say, “they’ll lose a lot of money”. Quote me please. DON’T put words down I didn’t say.

what I SAID is that if they gave them away free to new people then the old accounts would complain about that.

OOOOooooohhh…want to play it that way, uh ? First, you’re not saying anything, you’re TYPING stuff. Second, let’s use some logic for a second here.

“Everyone has to pay”

Ok, now what happen when someone doesn’t pay you ? Think…and write it down.

Sure the people playing since lauch will complain, they always did about everything ! Why’s that ? ‘cause we’re all playing (well I should say YOU ALL ARE) the same game and we (you all) would like to be something made correctly, right ?

P.S.

I should add that the 5k chest isn’t something A LOT OF PEOPLE have. I played since beta, and I barely have more than 2,7k points. Don’t assume EVERYONE got it.

Again I didn’t type (since you are going to be weird about the word say) that everyone has the 5k chest. I typed that everyone will eventually get one.

ANet is a company. Their reason for existing is to make money which they do by selling an entertainment product. If they gave free new hair styles to new characters only then the old accounts would be massively complaining about that. And in case you didn’t know you can get these for free a couple of ways. Through exchanging gold to gems or for waiting for the 5k chest. People can do that and ANet won’t make a dime off these hair kits.

It takes a lot of time to get 5k, so it’s not tomorrow we’ll start seeing people having new hairstyles for free. Now for the conversion of gold to gems, here’s the solution for the people playing with characters already well advanced: an hour or two of gold farming in Frostgorge, and there you go ! Enough gold for the conversion, and enough gems for the hair kit ! Not to mention that some of them already had (and still “have”, even) the rewards for the 5k chest (not to mention the 10k one in some cases). I can’t really see why people with characters already made, and who wants new hairstyles, have to cry about.

They have a crap-ton of ways to make enough gold to get these gems, and even farm AP with daily and monthly reward ! What’s the trouble ? Equality, right ? Yeah…the same “equality” we keep hearing about with champ trains in low-level areas, sickening comments about “no0bs”, people complaining about PvP all the time and bashing PvE (and vice-versa). There’s no “equality” in this game. We could be nice and give a few free things such as haircuts to newbies (or new char’s).

The real problem with the new hairstyles (in my case anyway) is that they already gave us some hairstyles before, for free. Why are we paying now ?

Anet is becoming like EA more and more, and I know they want money (NcSoft does even more, with their on-going projects). Every sane person who took Economics 101 knows that a company only have one goal: money. Anet are just playing a dangerous game here. I’m telling you, one day we’ll pay for Living Story…

Machiavel.6042:

one day we’ll pay for Living Story…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_pack

OMG this is without doubt the dumbest thread I have ever read. Just spend 15g converting gold to gems and buy a kit if you want one without spending irl cash. You could just run COF which takes about 10min once a day for 7 days and make 15g easily. Many people make 7g an hour flipping goods on the trading post. Are you all so noob you cant make 15g?

Be thankful you can even trade gold for gems.

The fact people are freaking out here over 15g worth on gems is pathetic. Do you people do anything else other than whine? Fml… Some here act like anet should be some charity called “save the lazy scroungers”, well earth calling; anet is a business. Besides… You can buy everything in the gem shop with gold anyway!

I dont know what plant some of you live on because you obviously have no idea about businesses or the costs associated with running one.

Necrochild.1497:

Machiavel.6042:

one day we’ll pay for Living Story…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_pack

Yeah….so ?

Like Anet never lied before… >.>

@ Machiavel.6042

Like I said, they are a business. They are here to make money. While they may occasionally give away free stuff, they can’t be expected to do so continuously. Would you go to a store and complain because they aren’t handing out free stuff, even if they did it before? No one would take you seriously if you did that. They would just look at you and think, “what an entitled person. Coming here and demanding free stuff”.

As to whether ANet may later charge for the LS. Again. They are a company. They will do what they need to do to survive and make money. If it turns out that people refuse to buy gem store items enough, maybe because they are demanding everything for free, then they might need to charge for the LS. You can’t fault a company for doing what it needs to do. I read all these posts where people get mad about something and say, I’m not buying anymore from the gems store because they made me mad about this change to the game". If enough people do this, the money has to come from somewhere and it’s either then charge for an expansion or charge for the living story. They will do what is best for them.

@ Astral Projections.7320

Hmm…I know, I know, Economics 101 (like I said somehwere else XD)

For the LS comment, it should be considered as pessimism coming from me, and as such not a real comment to debate on (even though it could go on for pages, I’m sure of it).

Anet should start considering a “premium” thing, like a subscription fee that players who really like the game, and a few trinkets here and there, could buy. That way, they could probably have a more stable income in this whole affair that Guild Wars 2 is.

There’s a lot of people here on the forums that have really nice ideas, and I sure hope Anet is reading all of this. As a company (video game company, that is), being Free-to-play isn’t a model that is going really well. We all see it on the market right now, and people are getting more and more tired of it…

And, at the same time, we’re all a bunch of greedy kids playing games expecting stuff for free X)

Vol.5241:

MrRuin.9740:

If there is to be a cashshop, this is what it should be. Cosmetic luxuries. Skins, hairstyles, minis, and other in game luxuries like bank slots, inventory slots, additonal character slots…..thats what should be in there. Its absolutely nothing you need in any way to play the game. Noone can gain any advantage from cashshop use.
And there’s going to be a cashshop no matter what. Even if they did pay expansions, the cashshop will remain. Anyone who thinks they’d introduce expansion with a fee and drop the cashshop entirely is kidding themselves.
Its there to stay and a mainstay in a vast majority of MMO’s. What you would prefer in it? Being able to buy endgame gear? Lets just put Ascended and Legendaries directly in the cashshop. Fractal backpieces too.

Saying the cashshop stuff isn’t available in game isn’t true either. I have the new hairstyles free twice from free makeover kits. You can also farm and exchange in-game currency for gems.
Willing to farm exotics via whatever method or Ascended or Legendaries or Ap’s every couple weeks, but farming a few gold to buy this is too much?

I’m honestly surprised that the complainers are surprised that there is a cash shop in game.

It’s as if they are patiently waiting the day when Anet announces that they are not going to be continuing with the gem shop. I really wonder what their expectations are.

I haven’t seen those complainers to be honest.

Devata.6589:

Vol.5241:

MrRuin.9740:

If there is to be a cashshop, this is what it should be. Cosmetic luxuries. Skins, hairstyles, minis, and other in game luxuries like bank slots, inventory slots, additonal character slots…..thats what should be in there. Its absolutely nothing you need in any way to play the game. Noone can gain any advantage from cashshop use.
And there’s going to be a cashshop no matter what. Even if they did pay expansions, the cashshop will remain. Anyone who thinks they’d introduce expansion with a fee and drop the cashshop entirely is kidding themselves.
Its there to stay and a mainstay in a vast majority of MMO’s. What you would prefer in it? Being able to buy endgame gear? Lets just put Ascended and Legendaries directly in the cashshop. Fractal backpieces too.

Saying the cashshop stuff isn’t available in game isn’t true either. I have the new hairstyles free twice from free makeover kits. You can also farm and exchange in-game currency for gems.
Willing to farm exotics via whatever method or Ascended or Legendaries or Ap’s every couple weeks, but farming a few gold to buy this is too much?

I’m honestly surprised that the complainers are surprised that there is a cash shop in game.

It’s as if they are patiently waiting the day when Anet announces that they are not going to be continuing with the gem shop. I really wonder what their expectations are.

I haven’t seen those complainers to be honest.

I think what he is basically saying is that everytime Anet puts something new in the store, something not needed for the game at all, and people are complaining that it is in the store instead of giving it for free.

Totbot.4583:

The game doesn’t have a monthly sub because it has a cash shop.

This isn’t greed. This is an MMO making money through one of the two common avenues that MMO’s make money from; a cash shop or a subscription fee.

a cash shop or a subscription fee.

Well thats one of the common ones indeed. But Anet used cash shop and initial box sale. So thats not common. GW1 was also not common as it used box sale and expansions. Exactlywhat GW2 also should have done because both cash shop and subscription are not as good as B2P.

The main reason Anet and GW1 became big was because of this model and many people went for GW2 thinking it would have a similar system.

Pip.2094:

Seriously, they need to earn somewhere and that’s the best add we had in months. They will have my money support for this.
OP…the company won’t pay bills with your charming new characters you know?

But the will pay bills with income of expansions and then they don’t have to do this sort of things.

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

Vol.5241:

MrRuin.9740:

If there is to be a cashshop, this is what it should be. Cosmetic luxuries. Skins, hairstyles, minis, and other in game luxuries like bank slots, inventory slots, additonal character slots…..thats what should be in there. Its absolutely nothing you need in any way to play the game. Noone can gain any advantage from cashshop use.
And there’s going to be a cashshop no matter what. Even if they did pay expansions, the cashshop will remain. Anyone who thinks they’d introduce expansion with a fee and drop the cashshop entirely is kidding themselves.
Its there to stay and a mainstay in a vast majority of MMO’s. What you would prefer in it? Being able to buy endgame gear? Lets just put Ascended and Legendaries directly in the cashshop. Fractal backpieces too.

Saying the cashshop stuff isn’t available in game isn’t true either. I have the new hairstyles free twice from free makeover kits. You can also farm and exchange in-game currency for gems.
Willing to farm exotics via whatever method or Ascended or Legendaries or Ap’s every couple weeks, but farming a few gold to buy this is too much?

I’m honestly surprised that the complainers are surprised that there is a cash shop in game.

It’s as if they are patiently waiting the day when Anet announces that they are not going to be continuing with the gem shop. I really wonder what their expectations are.

I haven’t seen those complainers to be honest.

I think what he is basically saying is that everytime Anet puts something new in the store, something not needed for the game at all, and people are complaining that it is in the store instead of giving it for free.

I don’t think that is true. You can have a select few mini’s in there, you can have unlocks like character slots and bank slots and you can have many more things where people will not complain about. People complain about thinks they think that should be in the game world or that are limited or that are RNG.

If they would have a focus on expansions for income they would be less forced to put these items in there but because they are focusing on cash-shop income they are forced to.

So I totally understand why Anet basically has to put them in there.. I am mainly (and have been for a while) complaining about the reason behind this.. And thats the F2P model that generates income with the gem-sore in stead of a B2P model that generates income with expansions.

Devata.6589:

So I totally understand why Anet basically has to put them in there.. I am mainly (and have been for a while) complaining about the reason behind this.. And thats the F2P model that generates income with the gem-sore in stead of a B2P model that generates income with expansions.

The cash shop is a substitute source of income in lieu of paid subscriptions, not the income from expansion packs. I see no reason to believe that we won’t see some sort of large update (whether or not they call it an “expansion pack” or something else is academic at this point) eventually that we will have to pay for somehow.

Several games sell expacs in addition to having a cash shop nowadays. LOTRO does this, for example.

The problem with this is the idea that everything people ask for will be implemented in the cash shop. I mean people have been asking for instant retraits like in gw1 for a while now. They implemented that into the gem store. The least they could do is give it to people who have bough extra character slots.

mrstealth.6701:

Astral Projections.7320:

what I SAID is that if they gave them away free to new people then the old accounts would complain about that.

And instead we have new accounts, or old accounts making new characters, complaining about it. The only way to make everyone happy is to make them free for everyone, which doesn’t make them any money at all. The option they did go with ends up double-dipping on character slot purchases, and to new accounts to a lesser degree. A new player to the game might be a bit disappointed to find that a hairstyle they had no option of selecting during character selection is stuck on a cash shop option.

That type of option might be expected in other non-subscription MMOs, but most of those games don’t require an upfront $50 purchase.

actually, there is no other buy2p mmos that dont have cash shop. In fact the kind of content you are talking about are often sold in offline games these days, its called downloadable content.
Its fairly common these days to pay a box price, and an additional price for alternate costumes. All in all i think anets execution of these new hairstyles is in good faith, mostly due to the fact you can trade gems for gold.

Devata.6589:

Copestetic.5174:

Just bought $100 worth of Gems. Why? Because I can, and have disposable income. Thanks ANet for something to spend it on. Disregard the QQ’ers.

I always have to laugh seeing this sort of reactions. Telling how much the spend on gems like if they want to show how much money they have and suggesting that people not buying gems don’t have money.. a little like the Apple fan club and there Apple stuff (that take a loan for there phone but don’t even know they do). I always think those people that spend a lot of money on gems do not have a lot of money because they clearly can’t handle money.

Trust me. the fact that you don’t buy gems don’t mean you don’t have money. I have not spend a dime and on gems and what am I asking for? Expansion because I am willing to spend my money on that.

To bad you are ruining the game this way.

Sounds a little like entitlement issues.

Celestial.4381:

Devata.6589:

So I totally understand why Anet basically has to put them in there.. I am mainly (and have been for a while) complaining about the reason behind this.. And thats the F2P model that generates income with the gem-sore in stead of a B2P model that generates income with expansions.

The cash shop is a substitute source of income in lieu of paid subscriptions, not the income from expansion packs. I see no reason to believe that we won’t see some sort of large update (whether or not they call it an “expansion pack” or something else is academic at this point) eventually that we will have to pay for somehow.

Several games sell expacs in addition to having a cash shop nowadays. LOTRO does this, for example.

It is in GW2 but expansions can easily be used as an substitute source of income in lieu of paid subscriptions (I would not call it an substitute because that makes it seem like if a subscription is the standard but oke). Anet was not planning on an expansion so there main income was supposed to be the cash-shop. Because of many complains they said to rethink that decision but no word about it after that.

That other games do it different.. that might be. WoW asks gets money with subscription, box sales and a cash-shop (not a cash-shop focus as GW2 but they make money with it anyway) but that does not yet make it good or the way to go for any other game.

I have played LotR a little but not enough to really know they cash-shop focus. I do know that there are some thinks you unlock one time to then always have available so LotrO might indeed be B2P game that generates income mainly by expansions. Maybe not I do not know but there are multiple ways to do something and a focus on a expansions is the best in my opinion. That does not mean a cash-shop is not allowed it’s the focus we are talking about here. (I did buy LotrO back then because I checked out there payment model and back then it did seem to be more of a B2P model then a F2P model but you can’t really know that for sure untill you play it for a while. I did not play it very long because I did not like the game that much)

In GW2 we see many decision really being based on the idea around selling gems. It’s not just that once in a while they add some nice new things to there cash-shop.

Devata.6589:

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

Vol.5241:

MrRuin.9740:

If there is to be a cashshop, this is what it should be. Cosmetic luxuries. Skins, hairstyles, minis, and other in game luxuries like bank slots, inventory slots, additonal character slots…..thats what should be in there. Its absolutely nothing you need in any way to play the game. Noone can gain any advantage from cashshop use.
And there’s going to be a cashshop no matter what. Even if they did pay expansions, the cashshop will remain. Anyone who thinks they’d introduce expansion with a fee and drop the cashshop entirely is kidding themselves.
Its there to stay and a mainstay in a vast majority of MMO’s. What you would prefer in it? Being able to buy endgame gear? Lets just put Ascended and Legendaries directly in the cashshop. Fractal backpieces too.

Saying the cashshop stuff isn’t available in game isn’t true either. I have the new hairstyles free twice from free makeover kits. You can also farm and exchange in-game currency for gems.
Willing to farm exotics via whatever method or Ascended or Legendaries or Ap’s every couple weeks, but farming a few gold to buy this is too much?

I’m honestly surprised that the complainers are surprised that there is a cash shop in game.

It’s as if they are patiently waiting the day when Anet announces that they are not going to be continuing with the gem shop. I really wonder what their expectations are.

I haven’t seen those complainers to be honest.

I think what he is basically saying is that everytime Anet puts something new in the store, something not needed for the game at all, and people are complaining that it is in the store instead of giving it for free.

I don’t think that is true. You can have a select few mini’s in there, you can have unlocks like character slots and bank slots and you can have many more things where people will not complain about. People complain about thinks they think that should be in the game world or that are limited or that are RNG.

If they would have a focus on expansions for income they would be less forced to put these items in there but because they are focusing on cash-shop income they are forced to.

So I totally understand why Anet basically has to put them in there.. I am mainly (and have been for a while) complaining about the reason behind this.. And thats the F2P model that generates income with the gem-sore in stead of a B2P model that generates income with expansions.

they would be putting all the extra crap in the expansion, and how much new stuff you get outside of an expansion would be fairly limited. keep in mind GW1 had only 1 major content update outside of expansions for most of its life, it wasnt till the cash shop got more robust that they started doing the free story addition winds of change.

Devata.6589:

Celestial.4381:

Devata.6589:

So I totally understand why Anet basically has to put them in there.. I am mainly (and have been for a while) complaining about the reason behind this.. And thats the F2P model that generates income with the gem-sore in stead of a B2P model that generates income with expansions.

The cash shop is a substitute source of income in lieu of paid subscriptions, not the income from expansion packs. I see no reason to believe that we won’t see some sort of large update (whether or not they call it an “expansion pack” or something else is academic at this point) eventually that we will have to pay for somehow.

Several games sell expacs in addition to having a cash shop nowadays. LOTRO does this, for example.

It is in GW2 but expansions can easily be used as an substitute source of income in lieu of paid subscriptions (I would not call it an substitute because that makes it seem like if a subscription is the standard but oke). Anet was not planning on an expansion so there main income was supposed to be the cash-shop. Because of many complains they said to rethink that decision but no word about it after that.

That other games do it different.. that might be. WoW asks gets money with subscription, box sales and a cash-shop (not a cash-shop focus as GW2 but they make money with it anyway) but that does not yet make it good or the way to go for any other game.

I have played LotR a little but not enough to really know they cash-shop focus. I do know that there are some thinks you unlock one time to then always have available so LotrO might indeed be B2P game that generates income mainly by expansions. Maybe not I do not know but there are multiple ways to do something and a focus on a expansions is the best in my opinion. That does not mean a cash-shop is not allowed it’s the focus we are talking about here. (I did buy LotrO back then because I checked out there payment model and back then it did seem to be more of a B2P model then a F2P model but you can’t really know that for sure untill you play it for a while. I did not play it very long because I did not like the game that much)

In GW2 we see many decision really being based on the idea around selling gems. It’s not just that once in a while they add some nice new things to there cash-shop.

Then people like yourself should have an ample amount of gold to trade-off for Gems.

First of all I’d like to say, this is perfectly fine for me and ANet has to make money somehow (I don’t agree on everything they do for the most part so don’t bother thinking I’m an ANet evangelist).

The Kit costs only 250 gems which equals a mere 13 gold currently, you have the option to get everything in the gem store for free unlike most F2P mmos so stop being childish.

For those familiar with dungeons they should know how easy it is to make money now.

A short math below if you please:

CoF P1 = 1g, HoTW P1 = 1g, AC P3 = 1.5g, CoE P1/2/3 = 1g Per Path, Doing all these daily totals for 6.5 gold + another 1.44 gold from the 24 silver and 20 Empyreal Fragments. For a total of almost 8 gold EXCLUDING drops.

Making money in this game is way too easy, standing around LA won’t make you rich.

ArmoredVehicle.2849:

First of all I’d like to say, this is perfectly fine for me and ANet has to make money somehow (I don’t agree on everything they do for the most part so don’t bother thinking I’m an ANet evangelist).

The Kit costs only 250 gems which equals a mere 13 gold currently, you have the option to get everything in the gem store for free unlike most F2P mmos so stop being childish.

For those familiar with dungeons they should know how easy it is to make money now.

A short math below if you please:

CoF P1 = 1g, HoTW P1 = 1g, AC P3 = 1.5g, CoE P1/2/3 = 1g Per Path, Doing all these daily totals for 6.5 gold + another 1.44 gold from the 24 silver and 20 Empyreal Fragments. For a total of almost 8 gold EXCLUDING drops.

Making money in this game is way too easy, standing around LA won’t make you rich.

I agree. Staying on the forums complaining about it isn’t going to net you that kit either.

If it weren’t for this world being so greedy, new characters would be able to have those new hair styles.

Its a cruel world out there. The funny thing is, you can’t take your money with you when you die! *laughs disturbingly

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

If it weren’t for this world being so greedy, new characters would be able to have those new hair styles.

Its a cruel world out there. The funny thing is, you can’t take your money with you when you die! *laughs disturbingly

Yeah nobody should be payed for there hard work!

Devata.6589:

I have played LotR a little but not enough to really know they cash-shop focus. I do know that there are some thinks you unlock one time to then always have available so LotrO might indeed be B2P game that generates income mainly by expansions. Maybe not I do not know but there are multiple ways to do something and a focus on a expansions is the best in my opinion. That does not mean a cash-shop is not allowed it’s the focus we are talking about here. (I did buy LotrO back then because I checked out there payment model and back then it did seem to be more of a B2P model then a F2P model but you can’t really know that for sure untill you play it for a while. I did not play it very long because I did not like the game that much)

In GW2 we see many decision really being based on the idea around selling gems. It’s not just that once in a while they add some nice new things to there cash-shop.

LOTRO went in BIG time with the cash shop system after the success it became in Turbine’s other big game, DDO. Actually, the way they do it, you can also subscribe to get “VIP” status and unlock some account features (which you can also buy in the Turbine Store a la carte). The initial release is free, but everyone must buy expansions (now called “quest packs”) in order to play the full content of the game. There were definitely players who were not happy with the decision to bring in a cash shop and go hybrid-F2P with expansions on top of all that, but player numbers did apparently go up after the switch. So for LOTRO, the system works (for now, at least…)

The main reason that I’m skeptical that ANet would focus ONLY on the gem store content is that this approach does little to bring new players into the game. If the gem store stuff is good/shiny enough, it might retain existing ones (the Living Story is also an attempt to retain players). Expansions (or updates equivalent to expansions) DO bring in new players, so I would expect them to eventually release a major update of some sort.

At any rate, I disagree that the main focus of the devs even now is on gem store content. I mean, what’s on there? Account upgrades/services (which every game has), boosters, convenience items (each one merely replacing a single NPC function or existing item, such as the gathering tools), minis (which there are plenty of in-game already), a few armor skins, and now some hairstyles (via the self-style kits). Nothing essential (yet, and hopefully never), and IMO exceeded by what we’ve gotten for free thus far through the LS updates (not that every LS update has been exceptional in terms of gameplay, but it’s quite obvious that a lot of work went into creating areas like Zephyr Sanctum).

If anything, my concern is that it’s the temporary content that’s taking focus away from full-fledged expansion-type content such as new landmasses, races, and professions. I’d gladly take just one LS update a month or every six weeks if I knew there was a larger, more permanent update around the corner.

Devata.6589:

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

Vol.5241:

MrRuin.9740:

If there is to be a cashshop, this is what it should be. Cosmetic luxuries. Skins, hairstyles, minis, and other in game luxuries like bank slots, inventory slots, additonal character slots…..thats what should be in there. Its absolutely nothing you need in any way to play the game. Noone can gain any advantage from cashshop use.
And there’s going to be a cashshop no matter what. Even if they did pay expansions, the cashshop will remain. Anyone who thinks they’d introduce expansion with a fee and drop the cashshop entirely is kidding themselves.
Its there to stay and a mainstay in a vast majority of MMO’s. What you would prefer in it? Being able to buy endgame gear? Lets just put Ascended and Legendaries directly in the cashshop. Fractal backpieces too.

Saying the cashshop stuff isn’t available in game isn’t true either. I have the new hairstyles free twice from free makeover kits. You can also farm and exchange in-game currency for gems.
Willing to farm exotics via whatever method or Ascended or Legendaries or Ap’s every couple weeks, but farming a few gold to buy this is too much?

I’m honestly surprised that the complainers are surprised that there is a cash shop in game.

It’s as if they are patiently waiting the day when Anet announces that they are not going to be continuing with the gem shop. I really wonder what their expectations are.

I haven’t seen those complainers to be honest.

I think what he is basically saying is that everytime Anet puts something new in the store, something not needed for the game at all, and people are complaining that it is in the store instead of giving it for free.

I don’t think that is true. You can have a select few mini’s in there, you can have unlocks like character slots and bank slots and you can have many more things where people will not complain about. People complain about thinks they think that should be in the game world or that are limited or that are RNG.

If they would have a focus on expansions for income they would be less forced to put these items in there but because they are focusing on cash-shop income they are forced to.

So I totally understand why Anet basically has to put them in there.. I am mainly (and have been for a while) complaining about the reason behind this.. And thats the F2P model that generates income with the gem-sore in stead of a B2P model that generates income with expansions.

Guild Wars 2 is the first Buy to Play MMO, there is no B2P MMO that uses Expansions to generate income. Anet would rather they give us the content with no additional charge, instead of charging us for expansions. IMO, this system they are doing now is far better than charging for expansions. Everything they have been adding to the store has no real effect on the game, new hair styles is purely cosmetic and it certainly belongs as a gem store item and is nothing wrong with it being a store item, people are not entitled to free cosmetic stuff just because. And just because is basically what it comes down to. And yes, people have complained about everything in the store, from dyes, to bag slots, to character slots, to skins, to XP boosters, literally the only thing people have not complained about in the store are services like name changes.

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

Because GW2 is not really a B2P game that focuses in sale of the game and expansions for income but more of a F2P game (that you need to buy) that focuses on cash-shop as income.

So now they do this sort of bad thinks to make money.

Try not to buy any gems, that might help them to shift back to a real B2P system where everything is available ingame but where you pay for an expansion every year year and a half.

What real B2P MMOs are there out there? Please do not say Guild Wars 1, that is in fact not an MMO, so it doesn’t count and cannot be used as an example since they are 2 different genre of games.

Guild Wars 1 is in fact a B2P MMO.

Just because you don’t know what a MMO is doesn’t mean GW 1 isn’t a MMO. It just means you don’t know what a MMO is.

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

Vol.5241:

MrRuin.9740:

If there is to be a cashshop, this is what it should be. Cosmetic luxuries. Skins, hairstyles, minis, and other in game luxuries like bank slots, inventory slots, additonal character slots…..thats what should be in there. Its absolutely nothing you need in any way to play the game. Noone can gain any advantage from cashshop use.
And there’s going to be a cashshop no matter what. Even if they did pay expansions, the cashshop will remain. Anyone who thinks they’d introduce expansion with a fee and drop the cashshop entirely is kidding themselves.
Its there to stay and a mainstay in a vast majority of MMO’s. What you would prefer in it? Being able to buy endgame gear? Lets just put Ascended and Legendaries directly in the cashshop. Fractal backpieces too.

Saying the cashshop stuff isn’t available in game isn’t true either. I have the new hairstyles free twice from free makeover kits. You can also farm and exchange in-game currency for gems.
Willing to farm exotics via whatever method or Ascended or Legendaries or Ap’s every couple weeks, but farming a few gold to buy this is too much?

I’m honestly surprised that the complainers are surprised that there is a cash shop in game.

It’s as if they are patiently waiting the day when Anet announces that they are not going to be continuing with the gem shop. I really wonder what their expectations are.

I haven’t seen those complainers to be honest.

I think what he is basically saying is that everytime Anet puts something new in the store, something not needed for the game at all, and people are complaining that it is in the store instead of giving it for free.

I don’t think that is true. You can have a select few mini’s in there, you can have unlocks like character slots and bank slots and you can have many more things where people will not complain about. People complain about thinks they think that should be in the game world or that are limited or that are RNG.

If they would have a focus on expansions for income they would be less forced to put these items in there but because they are focusing on cash-shop income they are forced to.

So I totally understand why Anet basically has to put them in there.. I am mainly (and have been for a while) complaining about the reason behind this.. And thats the F2P model that generates income with the gem-sore in stead of a B2P model that generates income with expansions.

Guild Wars 2 is the first Buy to Play MMO, there is no B2P MMO that uses Expansions to generate income. Anet would rather they give us the content with no additional charge, instead of charging us for expansions. IMO, this system they are doing now is far better than charging for expansions. Everything they have been adding to the store has no real effect on the game, new hair styles is purely cosmetic and it certainly belongs as a gem store item and is nothing wrong with it being a store item, people are not entitled to free cosmetic stuff just because. And just because is basically what it comes down to. And yes, people have complained about everything in the store, from dyes, to bag slots, to character slots, to skins, to XP boosters, literally the only thing people have not complained about in the store are services like name changes.

Actually there are other MMOs that use expansions to make money. For example, SWTOR, DC Universe, DDO, etc.

khani.4786:

Goodness people. If they put them in at character creation you’d still be whining & complaining….What about my existing lvl 80 characters, newbies get these styles for free and I have to buy makeover kits. Whaaaah.

Another case of ANET can’t win. I love the new hairstyles and I’m fine with them where they are. It is a cosmetic change. Go play the game and quit complaining about every little thing!

Incorrect. ANET could win by simply making the new hairstyles free for everyone.

You just can’t win when you become a money grubbing corporation.

eisberg.2379:

Guild Wars 2 is the first Buy to Play MMO, there is no B2P MMO that uses Expansions to generate income. Anet would rather they give us the content with no additional charge, instead of charging us for expansions. IMO, this system they are doing now is far better than charging for expansions. Everything they have been adding to the store has no real effect on the game, new hair styles is purely cosmetic and it certainly belongs as a gem store item and is nothing wrong with it being a store item, people are not entitled to free cosmetic stuff just because. And just because is basically what it comes down to. And yes, people have complained about everything in the store, from dyes, to bag slots, to character slots, to skins, to XP boosters, literally the only thing people have not complained about in the store are services like name changes.

I for one would prefer paying for an expansion with permanent content than all this living story rubbish we keep getting. Living stories come and go (you may love some of it and they take it away) and then you’re always left with the same basic game you’ve been playing the past year.

On the other hand an expansion pack leaves you with your basic game + an more permanent content. When GW1 got Factions, Nightfall and EotN the game felt a lot bigger and there was lots of content to do. Compared to that GW2 feels small and dull.

Whenever a new living story comes out I’m always like “meh, another living story”, there’s no depth to it, it’s the same concept with a different skin.

Secret Molten facility! few weeks later, Secret Aetherblade area! few weeks later, Canach’s Secret lair! and now the Secret Path 4 in TA that came out of nowhere. – Same concept different skin.

I don’t have a problem with the new hairstyles being a pay item.

But why, why, why can’t ANet learn to communicate things effectively ahead of time? Announcing “Hey, we’re adding cool, new hairstyles into the game!” without mentioning the way they would be implemented just makes it look like they were trying to hide it until the very last possible minute.

Again, paid hairstyles: perfectly acceptable.

Not communicating that new hairstyles would be tied to a gem shop item until the very last possible moment: kinda sleazy.

Ellisande.5218:

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

Because GW2 is not really a B2P game that focuses in sale of the game and expansions for income but more of a F2P game (that you need to buy) that focuses on cash-shop as income.

So now they do this sort of bad thinks to make money.

Try not to buy any gems, that might help them to shift back to a real B2P system where everything is available ingame but where you pay for an expansion every year year and a half.

What real B2P MMOs are there out there? Please do not say Guild Wars 1, that is in fact not an MMO, so it doesn’t count and cannot be used as an example since they are 2 different genre of games.

Guild Wars 1 is in fact a B2P MMO.

Just because you don’t know what a MMO is doesn’t mean GW 1 isn’t a MMO. It just means you don’t know what a MMO is.

Arenanet must not know what MMOs are either

Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game). Guild Wars was designed from the ground up to create the best possible competitive role-playing experience

Also from the Official Wiki:

Guild Wars is a CORPG, or Competitive/Cooperative Online Role Playing Game developed for Windows by ArenaNet and published by NCsoft

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars

Doesn’t matter if other people call it an MMO, when the developers themselves did not call it an MMO and marketed it it as not being an MMO but rather as a CORPG. Therefore judging on how an MMO does thing compared to something that is of a different genre is not fair, and irrelevant.

ArmoredVehicle.2849:

Same concept different skin.

They have a problem with recycling. One reason I doubt I’ll do the new meta achievements: another backpack and mini. Yay?

Or like Halloween, Wintersday or the first SAB where you have to go out in the world and farm things. First it was candy nodes, then wool socks/hats, then baubles. zzzz.

Ellisande.5218:

Incorrect. ANET could win by simply making the new hairstyles free for everyone.

You just can’t win when you become a money grubbing corporation.

I really hope you come back to tell us about the next time you do a bunch of creative work and give it away for free. And then explain how you’ve got this great sustainable model where you keep getting to give your work away for free.

People treat artists like poop. Exhibit A.

phys.7689:

actually, there is no other buy2p mmos that dont have cash shop. In fact the kind of content you are talking about are often sold in offline games these days, its called downloadable content.
Its fairly common these days to pay a box price, and an additional price for alternate costumes. All in all i think anets execution of these new hairstyles is in good faith, mostly due to the fact you can trade gems for gold.

I know that even some sub-based games have cash shops, but that doesn’t mean everything included in those shops is something I have to find reasonable, or that it’s somehow a justification for Anet to do the same. If we’re using other games as examples, many of the totally free to play MMOs I’ve played did not have hairstyle, or other creation, options locked behind their cash shops.

And it’s not really comparable to an alternate costume. There are a lot of armor styles I can get ingame without touching the gemstore. A hairstyle is a semi-permanent part of character creation. I have no problem with charging some gems if you want to change a hairstyle after creation, but character creation should have every available option there. A game that requires upfront purchase should probably hold off just a bit longer before putting cash shop options in your face. At least it’s not presented during creation as a locked-out option, but it’s not likely to take a new player long before they notice others having hairstyles that were missing during creation.

I have bought purely cosmetic items in this game, and in others. I have happily paid for DLCs in some games. I just happen to think that in a buy-to-play game all basic aspects of character customization should be included in character creation without the need for gemstore items.

Ellisande.5218:

eisberg.2379:

Guild Wars 2 is the first Buy to Play MMO, there is no B2P MMO that uses Expansions to generate income.

Actually there are other MMOs that use expansions to make money. For example, SWTOR, DC Universe, DDO, etc.

SWToT, DCUO and DDO are F2p, not B2P. The Secret World is B2P now after starting as a sub game. Defiance is an MMO but not an RPG, and it is B2P. Both charge for additional content, but that content is a lot more like a downloadable content pack in a SPRPG than like an expansion.

Guys, just don’t support the game (by buying gems) if you don’t support their decisions.

Lafiel.9372:

Guys, just don’t support the game (by buying gems) if you don’t support their decisions.

And that is what it comes down to. Personally I do not like the RNG involved with some items in the shop, so I do not spend money on that stuff. I also do not buy the boost items because I feel like those are just a waste of money, cause I am in no hurry. So I spend my money on things I know 100% what I am getting, and that I want.

For those who think that these new hairstyles should be included in character creation now and be free.

That’s fine for all the new accounts or for old accounts who want to make a new character. Otherwise, old accounts are going to have to purchase the kits. Don’t you think that people who have already have level 80s wouldn’t complain about this? The forums would go ballistic if new people got these for free and old accounts didn’t. They can get these for free with ingame gold now and people are complaining.

So what would ANet have to do to make the complainers happy? Mail out kits for every character slot you have? After all, you might want to change each one. And why about when/if more hairstyles come out? Or new faces? Should ANet mail out additional hair and total makeover kits each time they make more options? To everyone that has ever bought the game and one for each character slot?

ANet is offering a non essential vanity upgrade. An upgrade that was not included in the initial purchase price. If it was your business, and you included a vanity upgrade on an item would you give your work away for free to every one of the millions of people who had bought the basic package a year before? What would you say to a customer who told you that you should have done this work a year ago and in addition, it should be free now?

Everyone of course wants free items. I want free items myself. But you have to consider it from the point of view of the business. its not reasonable to expect a business to do work and then hand it over for free. I very much doubt that many of the people complaining here works for free on a regular basis.

They need to make money, to please their NCSoft overlords. I don’t mind it. But if you don’t like it don’t buy it, simple.

I thought it was pretty universally accepted that cash shops are fine if they’re purely cosmetic and not pay 2 win, now bam, 3 hair styles per character is outrageous and ANet must be talking out of their kitten .

You can buy the makeover thing for like 12 gold or something, it’s not even expensive, you don’t have to pay REAL money to get it, and even if you did it equals to like $3 or something, oh the horror!

Would you rather hair styles behind a pay wall or new utility skills behind a pay wall?

New chars can’t get new hairstyles? Why?!

Because you’re still to weak to handle the awesomeness of giant hairdo’s. Great hair comes with great responsibility.

Evans.6347:

New chars can’t get new hairstyles? Why?!

Because you’re still to weak to handle the awesomeness of giant hairdo’s. Great hair comes with great responsibility.

and $$$$$

Devata.6589:

a cash shop or a subscription fee.

Well thats one of the common ones indeed. But Anet used cash shop and initial box sale. So thats not common. GW1 was also not common as it used box sale and expansions. Exactlywhat GW2 also should have done because both cash shop and subscription are not as good as B2P.

The main reason Anet and GW1 became big was because of this model and many people went for GW2 thinking it would have a similar system.

GW1 had a cash shop that included cosmetic options as well.

GW2: box sale + cash shop + no sub fee

GW1: box sale + cash shop + no sub fee

I am not sure where the disconnect on the concept of paying for something you want comes from, particularly since you do not have to pay with real money.

Ashen.2907:

Devata.6589:

a cash shop or a subscription fee.

Well thats one of the common ones indeed. But Anet used cash shop and initial box sale. So thats not common. GW1 was also not common as it used box sale and expansions. Exactlywhat GW2 also should have done because both cash shop and subscription are not as good as B2P.

The main reason Anet and GW1 became big was because of this model and many people went for GW2 thinking it would have a similar system.

GW1 had a cash shop that included cosmetic options as well.

GW2: box sale + cash shop + no sub fee

GW1: box sale + cash shop + no sub fee

I am not sure where the disconnect on the concept of paying for something you want comes from, particularly since you do not have to pay with real money.

It comes from the fact that he does not like the Living Story and blames the gem shop for it.
He claims an expansion is the only reasonable way for a BtP game to make money.

What he seems to never take into account is that we will have everything you get in an expansion i.e new maps,races, classes, skills, traits, etc. Anet has just not decided how they want to bring it into the game.

but you know- gems shop is evil- dun-dun dun-dun

Astral Projections.7320:

For those who think that these new hairstyles should be included in character creation now and be free.

That’s fine for all the new accounts or for old accounts who want to make a new character. Otherwise, old accounts are going to have to purchase the kits. Don’t you think that people who have already have level 80s wouldn’t complain about this? The forums would go ballistic if new people got these for free and old accounts didn’t. They can get these for free with ingame gold now and people are complaining.

I have a level 80 of each profession, and right now I have no plans of making any new characters. I also have no problem with buying a hair style kit for one my existing characters to get one of these new styles, in fact I have done that for my asuran ele. However, I still think that new characters should have the new styles available at creation.

It doesn’t bother me that these characters would get a new style for free, even though I had to pay for my existing character. I could get the style for free myself on a new character if I chose to.

I’m kinda glad they’re only available in the kits. It would be unfair that new players get to pick these hairstyles while the people who created their characters at launch get shafted.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

I’m kinda glad they’re only available in the kits. It would be unfair that new players get to pick these hairstyles while the people who created their characters at launch get shafted.

Yes why should someone who joins the game a year after release have access to more options than someone who bought the game right away?

I got a hair style kit in a Lion Chest once, from a key I got from a map completion chest. Glad I saved it.

Clearly, this makes the game pay 2 win.
A rich guy can make a new char and instantly get an outstanding hair-fashion advantage. Everyone will say “oh! just look at his hair! we’ll kick that unstylish guy from the team and take him”.
I’d suggest a full-out forum riot over this.

Necrochild.1497:

Cosmetic-only content that you have the option of spending in-game currency to acquire causes outrage.

I swear you guys are sheltered from every other MMO on the market, because you obviously aren’t aware of how good you actually have it.

Quoted for Truth. You want to see what sheer naked greed looks like try a Perfect World or Turbine game. The latter are famous for monetising game play by either completely turning them into store-only purchases or making the in-game grind completely outrageous.

Sure – the gem price for the new styles may be a little high if you can’t convert gold to gems. So I simply chose not to buy. I’ll spend my gems on more practical stuff when i need to.

The game needs to make money and as stores go this one isn’t bad at all.