Guild Wars 2

You already have a flying mount. It’s called a glider.

demitel.1340:

That’s a good thing that we can’t fly in this game, gliding is fine. It would totally ruin immersion

While standing around the storage in LA – I SAW A BEAGLE PUPPY IN KERCHIEF AND COWBOY HAT! and you are going to talk about immersion? Naw those days are long past.

Feanor.2358:

Flying mounts will make gliding obsolete. I doubt they will ever appear.

Cars made horse drawn buggies obsolete, but progress always finds a way.

Vindicus.2130:

Feanor.2358:

Flying mounts will make gliding obsolete. I doubt they will ever appear.

Cars made horse drawn buggies obsolete, but progress always finds a way.

Dude, real world examples for a game?

Zet.9130:

demitel.1340:

That’s a good thing that we can’t fly in this game, gliding is fine. It would totally ruin immersion

While standing around the storage in LA – I SAW A BEAGLE PUPPY IN KERCHIEF AND COWBOY HAT! and you are going to talk about immersion? Naw those days are long past.

Better than the floppy fish?

On-topic, most people have what I would about flying mounts, but if flying mounts WERE ever added, I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t be backwards compatible. We already have the No-Fly and No-Mount zones (which I believe have a 100% overlap so far), and for those who will argue about the gliders being in core Tyria, I’d like to remind you just how long it took them before they cleared that.

The mounts, however, very few places should be broken by them. There is one particular place I’m planning on going once I have my raptor, and no it’s not to take a level 2 down to Orr. I’m not going to say publicly, though, as I suspect ArenaNet would shut me down before I even had a chance to try.

Vindicus.2130:

Abakk.9176:

Vindicus.2130:

Fingers crossed for flying mounts. Arguments like “they make the world feel smaller” or “they invalidate open world traveling” are moot in GW2 since waypoints already exist and already do these things.

Not completely accurate though.

Lots of contested waypoints that would be simply negated by flying mounts. Entire mapdesigns would become tivial.

Maps designed for gliding have systems in them to steer use of gliding. You have to master it in more than one way. Adding flying to those maps would render them mere loot piñata’s stripped of their gaming value.

The design of this game might just allow for ground mounts but certainly not flying mounts.

It would be like adding a massive cheatcode. Way to sink your own game as a developer. The Blizzard Krew learned this lesson the hard way.

So, Fingers crossed for NO flying mounts EVER.

I disagree entirely. It’s a popular trope that flying led to the downfall of WoW, however if you look at the facts and the numbers (when Blizzard released them), it’s quite the opposite. WoW was booming when flight was part of the game. Only recently, when flight is disabled for a long time at the start of the xpac, only to be introduced via massive amounts of tedious effort, subs have plummeted. I believe it to be true that the vast majority of people wish to battle enemies more than terrain, and sub numbers show that, if not the sole reason for the decline, that at least there’s some correlation.

I love how it is always ignored that Blizzard themselves stated that they made a huge mistake in letting flying go beyond TBC.

Just like the rest of my post is conveniently ignored.

Oh well…

Abakk.9176:

Just like the rest of my post is conveniently ignored.

Welcome to the internet :/

kurfu.5623:

Vindicus.2130:

Abakk.9176:

Vindicus.2130:

Fingers crossed for flying mounts. Arguments like “they make the world feel smaller” or “they invalidate open world traveling” are moot in GW2 since waypoints already exist and already do these things.

Not completely accurate though.

Lots of contested waypoints that would be simply negated by flying mounts. Entire mapdesigns would become tivial.

Maps designed for gliding have systems in them to steer use of gliding. You have to master it in more than one way. Adding flying to those maps would render them mere loot piñata’s stripped of their gaming value.

The design of this game might just allow for ground mounts but certainly not flying mounts.

It would be like adding a massive cheatcode. Way to sink your own game as a developer. The Blizzard Krew learned this lesson the hard way.

So, Fingers crossed for NO flying mounts EVER.

I disagree entirely. It’s a popular trope that flying led to the downfall of WoW, however if you look at the facts and the numbers (when Blizzard released them), it’s quite the opposite. WoW was booming when flight was part of the game. Only recently, when flight is disabled for a long time at the start of the xpac, only to be introduced via massive amounts of tedious effort, subs have plummeted. I believe it to be true that the vast majority of people wish to battle enemies more than terrain, and sub numbers show that, if not the sole reason for the decline, that at least there’s some correlation.

When they removed flying for most of the new XP’s, they started bleeding subs so fast that they stopped reporting subscription numbers.

Because people had become used to it. And unlike gw2, the vertical depth doesn’t make much of a difference in wow. That city up that hill, go ahead, fly to it.
In gw2 some areas are locked behind passages or events, there are paths the devs want you to take. They want you to know that a contested waypoint is a bother, flight would invalidate all that, effectively destroying the world.

That said, its not out of the question to design a ls4 map(s) which can accommodate flight. But then it’d have to be exclusive to those maps. After a while people will complain they want flight on more maps. It’s a slippery slope into a Venus flytrap

Zet.9130:

demitel.1340:

That’s a good thing that we can’t fly in this game, gliding is fine. It would totally ruin immersion

While standing around the storage in LA – I SAW A BEAGLE PUPPY IN KERCHIEF AND COWBOY HAT! and you are going to talk about immersion? Naw those days are long past.

I guess it’s a good thing I never took real life seriously to begin with?

(P.S. google ‘beagle cowboy’, apparently it’s a common thing.)

Lowered the number of waypoints in order to let you spend more time by travelling with mounts, and you think there’s a chance that they are gonna give you anything which could avoid exploration, encounters, and so on?

And for who’s talking about wow, it:

-has no exploration
-has no JP
-no teleports from everywhere ( there are some items or points which allow players to fast travel, but not as in gw2 )

Mounts are something related to mechanics and mostly aesthetic ( various mounts, various skins, dyes usable on mounts, etc… ).

I am really not happy about mounts, but more than this i can’t really understand who wants, in a game like gw2, flying mounts.

Give me a proper flying mount so I can finally do JP’s.

Seriously though, I personally think they’d kill the game making exploration pretty boring: “Hey, I wonder if or how I can get to that place up there?”; “Don’t sweat boss, just whip out your flying duck billed platypus snd fly up, man!”

Flatley.1620:

Give me a proper flying mount so I can finally do JP’s.

Seriously though, I personally think they’d kill the game making exploration pretty boring: “Hey, I wonder if or how I can get to that place up there?”; “Don’t sweat boss, just whip out your flying duck billed platypus snd fly up, man!”

exactly my worry, exploration feels rewarding because it’s the product of your efforts. If you can just fly up there, no effort is spend, and the reward is next is to nonexistent

Flying mounts would break the game, i pray that anet never add flying mounts to the game.

Feanor.2358:

Flying mounts will make gliding obsolete. I doubt they will ever appear.

They wouldn’t necessarily, though. Flying mounts as they exist in WoW would, but Anet can and probably would handle them differently – i.e. giving you fly time limits, restricting them to certain landing areas, etc. – things they could easily tie to masteries and avoid making gliders totally obsolete.

I thought there is one – the manta like thing appears to be flying.

Shinzan.2908:

I thought there is one – the manta like thing appears to be flying.

Looks more like it’s hovering. Sure it’s off the ground but you can’t fly high with it…or at least I never saw it fly high in any of the videos

Vayne.8563:

Shinzan.2908:

I thought there is one – the manta like thing appears to be flying.

Looks more like it’s hovering. Sure it’s off the ground but you can’t fly high with it…or at least I never saw it fly high in any of the videos

It has a jump ability, not quite as high as the springer will have, but enough to get up a cliff you can’t on your own. I agree, though, that it’s not flying as it can only maintain a 2 foot hovering height off the ground (or water surface). Flying would mean it could climb vertically, and there’s no way the skimmer is getting over a sheer cliff face, which the WoW flying mounts could.

Shinzan.2908:

I thought there is one – the manta like thing appears to be flying.

If that’s flying then the magic carpet toy is a flying mount.

Amaimon.7823:

kurfu.5623:

Vindicus.2130:

Abakk.9176:

Vindicus.2130:

Fingers crossed for flying mounts. Arguments like “they make the world feel smaller” or “they invalidate open world traveling” are moot in GW2 since waypoints already exist and already do these things.

Not completely accurate though.

Lots of contested waypoints that would be simply negated by flying mounts. Entire mapdesigns would become tivial.

Maps designed for gliding have systems in them to steer use of gliding. You have to master it in more than one way. Adding flying to those maps would render them mere loot piñata’s stripped of their gaming value.

The design of this game might just allow for ground mounts but certainly not flying mounts.

It would be like adding a massive cheatcode. Way to sink your own game as a developer. The Blizzard Krew learned this lesson the hard way.

So, Fingers crossed for NO flying mounts EVER.

I disagree entirely. It’s a popular trope that flying led to the downfall of WoW, however if you look at the facts and the numbers (when Blizzard released them), it’s quite the opposite. WoW was booming when flight was part of the game. Only recently, when flight is disabled for a long time at the start of the xpac, only to be introduced via massive amounts of tedious effort, subs have plummeted. I believe it to be true that the vast majority of people wish to battle enemies more than terrain, and sub numbers show that, if not the sole reason for the decline, that at least there’s some correlation.

When they removed flying for most of the new XP’s, they started bleeding subs so fast that they stopped reporting subscription numbers.

Because people had become used to it. And unlike gw2, the vertical depth doesn’t make much of a difference in wow. That city up that hill, go ahead, fly to it.
In gw2 some areas are locked behind passages or events, there are paths the devs want you to take. They want you to know that a contested waypoint is a bother, flight would invalidate all that, effectively destroying the world.

That said, its not out of the question to design a ls4 map(s) which can accommodate flight. But then it’d have to be exclusive to those maps. After a while people will complain they want flight on more maps. It’s a slippery slope into a Venus flytrap

It wasn’t just that people “got used to” flying in WoW – it’s that they used flying mounts as a carrot for people to stay subbed while they farmed old content to try to get them, and also that they sold them in the cash store for $25 each… and then they quietly announced that they were going to remove flying from future content – not on the main forum, but on some obscure form, on a Friday night. They were pretty slimy in the way they handled it.

I agree with you – huge portions of GW2 are literally designed around terrain obstacles, and the maps are instanced and mostly kinda small… flying wouldn’t work well here.

Even if they wanted to, they wouldn’t be able to, unless redesigning the whole map again.
Those guys who played Wow remember anger because of not being able to fly over Exodar.

Anyway, if you ever managed to get to top of for example Divinity, You’ll know that there are lots of surfaces that are just an empty facade. you pass them and there is nothing behind them. Try flying there and you’ll see the ugly truth.

If you ever managed to reach the border of map on top of hills such as Verdant brink which is possible even on kite, it kills you immediately.

Flying makes sense if you could fly from one city to other city while watching scenery down there which is also not possible because of zoning.

And by the way, those who say flying will break events and make exploration easier, it will not, you will still need to do hearts to complete exploration. The only benefit for flying is avoiding mobs on the ground, which is also won’t happen in GW2. Aggro box in wow is a circle on ground, if you are flying over the face of mobs, they won’t attack you, in GW2 aggro box is a very tall cylinder, even if you are flying above mobs, they will try to hit you even if you are out of direct range of their weapons (try it in Bloodstone fen)

If they ever make an appearance in GW2, don´t use them if you don´t like them.

If GW2 can make raids a thing for the ones who want to use it and just let the others hang out to dry, they could do the same for flying. Don´t like it? Your feet and the base content are still there, go ahead and use them.

I don’t think flying mounts can work in a game with maps that are surrounded by walls. Flying mounts work on real open maps and the maps in Guild Wars 2 will never become that open. Porting to other maps, map rewards, map-wide metas and so on can never work in a truly open game so don’t expect to ever get real flying mounts in Guild Wars 2.

maddoctor.2738:

I don’t think flying mounts can work in a game with maps that are surrounded by walls. Flying mounts work on real open maps and the maps in Guild Wars 2 will never become that open. Porting to other maps, map rewards, map-wide metas and so on can never work in a truly open game so don’t expect to ever get real flying mounts in Guild Wars 2.

If I recall right, FF14 has similar zoning to GW2, with specific exit points. It still has flying mounts, with the rule that you earn flying per zone.

Not that I support flying mounts for GW2. But I am curious what the next set of masteries is going to be for xpac 3.

We already have WP’s and Gliders. Flying mounts would just be entirely unnecessary, especially when Anet could just make a glider in the shape of a griffon or something.

Torolan.5816:

If they ever make an appearance in GW2, don´t use them if you don´t like them.

If GW2 can make raids a thing for the ones who want to use it and just let the others hang out to dry, they could do the same for flying. Don´t like it? Your feet and the base content are still there, go ahead and use them.

You are suggesting that flying mounts be added oonly to small instanced maps segregated from the rest of the game?

No, I am talking about adding controversial features being a two edged sword in general. The entry level would be here much lower of course, and the will to participate would suffice to get said feature if it is not bound to a game mode that is not the open world. but the principle is the same.

tl:dr: If I had to swallow the pill of raids, you can also swallow features you dislike.

Give them 2 years to milk ground mounts then they probably will make flying mounts the way things are going atm.

Torolan.5816:

No, I am talking about adding controversial features being a two edged sword in general. The entry level would be here much lower of course, and the will to participate would suffice to get said feature if it is not bound to a game mode that is not the open world. but the principle is the same.

tl:dr: If I had to swallow the pill of raids, you can also swallow features you dislike.

I suppose the comparison would work, but only if flying mounts and such were restricted to specific small instances segregated from the rest of the game so that no one who didnt wish to could even see them. Currently one has to actively seek out raid content to even be exposed to its existence. I doubt that would be the case with flying mounts. In the first preview weekend one could not experience the content without exposure to mounts.

Torolan.5816:

How has it killed open world in wow?

It made people lazy. And as for map design it pretty much invalidates space and composition. What’s the point of a mountain if you can just fly over it? Might as well put the quest givers in a flat open field. and put them all 5 feet from each other instead of spread out in the world.

Riding around especially Draenor is a chore,

See I was right… it made people lazy.

flying mkes you reach all the good dailies in away you want without the need of memorizing the way on land. I see the convenience of a mobile elevator where you see
a boring shortcut.

More evidence of laziness. You would rather fly straight to the daily quest givers and skip the “boring” environment. Remember what you said about chores? Seems to me you actually prefer boring chores instead of exploring a beautiful world.

And for the most part, GW2 can´t hold a candle to the lore and the accompanying cinematics of Wow, especially in the starter areas.
The death of Kill`Jaeden cinematic > everything GW2 has ever produced

This bit right here is why the phrase “then go back to WoW” exists. Seriously, if you think WoW is so much better, why aren’t you playing that instead?

maddoctor.2738:

I don’t think flying mounts can work in a game with maps that are surrounded by walls. Flying mounts work on real open maps and the maps in Guild Wars 2 will never become that open. Porting to other maps, map rewards, map-wide metas and so on can never work in a truly open game so don’t expect to ever get real flying mounts in Guild Wars 2.

This is exactly why flying mounts will never happen. Anet isn’t about to completely overhaul the entire open world to get rid of map boundaries. The technical issues are astronomical, and the benefits are negligible.

Even Blizzard said their overhaul of open world during Cataclysm wasn’t worth it. Blizzard… 10 times bigger than Anet.

I did not want to make an argument that raids and mounts are the same.

My argument is that Anet made a lot of people swallow the pill of raids, it is only fair if the next pill is something I enjoy and raiders don´t.

The optionality of raids is not the question, but for the sake of your argument i will still take the bait and bite:
*You can always choose to stay on ground and simply not use flying mounts for flying but simple riding or just stay on foot. So riding is completely optional. That other people fly is none of your business.(raids do not touch anyone not interested in them)
*It may be that some areas are only reachable by flying mount then. But this is also not relevant because you can always jump on the flying train too( the same as git gud).
You may at thisw point think that these two points contradict themselves. And you would be absolutely correct! The message been sent out is that you do not need to make raids in the same way that you do not need to reach that spot only reachable by flying because you still have old content to play(nonraiders have enough content).

You see, it is a lose/lose situation in my mind here, scorched earth.

Torolan.5816:

My argument is that Anet made a lot of people swallow the pill of raids, it is only fair if the next pill is something I enjoy and raiders don´t.

Intentionally developing features based on making one group happy and another group angry is not a good way to develop games.

I’m going to play devil’s advocate for a moment. Suppose I wanted Anet to add pay-to-win items in the gem store (legendary weapons for 800 gems each).

I think there would be a lot of people angry with that feature. Well, by your logic all I need to do is point to a popular feature (like gliding), say “I don’t like gliding”, therefore Anet must add my desired feature because other people got their desired feature. If the game were designed this way, everyone would hate it. It would be a messy hodge-podge of disjointed features.

This isn’t even addressing the technical side of the problem. It is simple not feasible. If you have ever broken out of a map, seen the empty void, seen the invisible backside of walls, seen the holes in the ground, and if you have even a layman’s understanding of asset production, you quickly realize why this isn’t going to happen.

Xenon.4537:

Torolan.5816:

How has it killed open world in wow?

It made people lazy. And as for map design it pretty much invalidates space and composition. What’s the point of a mountain if you can just fly over it? Might as well put the quest givers in a flat open field. and put them all 5 feet from each other instead of spread out in the world.

Riding around especially Draenor is a chore,

See I was right… it made people lazy.

flying mkes you reach all the good dailies in away you want without the need of memorizing the way on land. I see the convenience of a mobile elevator where you see
a boring shortcut.

More evidence of laziness. You would rather fly straight to the daily quest givers and skip the “boring” environment. Remember what you said about chores? Seems to me you actually prefer boring chores instead of exploring a beautiful world.

And for the most part, GW2 can´t hold a candle to the lore and the accompanying cinematics of Wow, especially in the starter areas.
The death of Kill`Jaeden cinematic > everything GW2 has ever produced

This bit right here is why the phrase “then go back to WoW” exists. Seriously, if you think WoW is so much better, why aren’t you playing that instead?

1. Yes, I am lazy when I play games. So what? It´s not my sports team, and I want to relax.
2. I assume that you go to school or to work, or at least outside of the house to get some food. How often do you stop by the green patch of wilderness beside your supermarket, workplace or schoolyard and marvel at it´s awesomeness?
Climbing the same mountain with the same character or even worse, different characters, gets boring very quickly.
It is a very good solution how Blizzard handles that stuff to be honest, your first run with the content is by foot, the rest by flying mount.
3. I actually think every game has it´s strength and weaknesses. GW2 is actually weak with story depth, character depth and reappearance of NPCs. The scene with Velen and Kil´Jaeden touched me despite never making the accompanying raid.
On the other hand I can´t barely remember the name of the sister of Marjory although I played that part of ls2 uncomfortably often.

Edit: I am not demanding anything. I would just find it justifiable by the same means raids were introduced and justified.

Xenon.4537:

maddoctor.2738:

I don’t think flying mounts can work in a game with maps that are surrounded by walls. Flying mounts work on real open maps and the maps in Guild Wars 2 will never become that open. Porting to other maps, map rewards, map-wide metas and so on can never work in a truly open game so don’t expect to ever get real flying mounts in Guild Wars 2.

This is exactly why flying mounts will never happen. Anet isn’t about to completely overhaul the entire open world to get rid of map boundaries. The technical issues are astronomical, and the benefits are negligible.

Even Blizzard said their overhaul of open world during Cataclysm wasn’t worth it. Blizzard… 10 times bigger than Anet.

And to add to my initial post. Flying mounts would completely invalidate gliding. Not to mention the real damage it can do to the zones of HoT+LS3. So I think people should relax, flying mounts aren’t happening in Guild Wars 2 both for technical and for sensible reasons.

2 Things.
1. Gw2 most likely will have gliding mounts way before you can ever think about flying and we are kind of getting one in the string ray.
2. For a real changes in game play you should be asking for an underwater mount.

Vindicus.2130:

Fingers crossed for flying mounts. Arguments like “they make the world feel smaller” or “they invalidate open world traveling” are moot in GW2 since waypoints already exist and already do these things.

Excellent point. They work in WoW because you don’t have load screens between maps within a continent. That’s actually something I liked about WoW. The “instanced” nature of GW2’s maps actually make the world feel smaller to me. But, as I’ve mentioned, I moved over to GW2 for personal reasons, and I can’t see myself going back to WoW.

Regarding other people’s comments here…I might have liked certain things in WoW, but I also don’t want GW2 to be a clone. But they sure as hell could follow WoW’s lead as far as how jungles and deserts are designed, and pet options. As it is now, I find WoW’s desert maps to feel much more like a real desert instead of rocky mob-ville.

Osby.5390:

I agree with not putting flying mounts into the game. It would make Vista’s, JP’s & Map completion far too easy and we would loose interest all together very quickly.
I did enjoy flying around on my Mount in WOW but here I am playing GW2 not Wow now see the point.

However, as with gliding, it can be disabled to prevent JP’s from being too easy.

That being said….
I WANT MY GRYPHON!

ahem.

ShadowGryphon.6257:

Osby.5390:

I agree with not putting flying mounts into the game. It would make Vista’s, JP’s & Map completion far too easy and we would loose interest all together very quickly.
I did enjoy flying around on my Mount in WOW but here I am playing GW2 not Wow now see the point.

However, as with gliding, it can be disabled to prevent JP’s from being too easy.

That being said….
I WANT MY GRYPHON!

ahem.

Out of curiosity, how do you disable gliding? There are many times when I want to simply jump but not glide, and accidentally tap the space bar one second longer than intended. XD

Moyayuki.3619:

ShadowGryphon.6257:

Osby.5390:

I agree with not putting flying mounts into the game. It would make Vista’s, JP’s & Map completion far too easy and we would loose interest all together very quickly.
I did enjoy flying around on my Mount in WOW but here I am playing GW2 not Wow now see the point.

However, as with gliding, it can be disabled to prevent JP’s from being too easy.

That being said….
I WANT MY GRYPHON!

ahem.

Out of curiosity, how do you disable gliding? There are many times when I want to simply jump but not glide, and accidentally tap the space bar one second longer than intended. XD

For your own personal use I suspect simply removing your glider would do the trick.

As for no gliding in jump puzzles and the like, you’d have to ask Anet.
I just know that they make certain areas “no fly” zones which disables gliding.

I fully expect flying mounts with capes before a belt pouch, fixed targeting, customizable U.I. or a Precursor drop to my account.

I also expect to see Kaineng City in GW2 before being able to remove a crafting profession from a character (remove not over-write), change what the mouse buttons do in Action Camera, or have a bind to CLEAR ALL (open windows/dialogs) from my screen.

I hope the Gryffin will make it to the game’s expansion release,

Also,

https://youtu.be/Yt-v29DAyN4
Spider mount

Flying Mounts will likely be available for the next expansion when we travel to Cantha (crosses fingers)

ShadowGryphon.6257:

For your own personal use I suspect simply removing your glider would do the trick.

You can’t unequip a glider because it’s not an actual piece of gear.

This is, and my apologies for rudeness, a terrible idea. This is the case for the following reasons:

Invalidates gliding, why bother gliding somewhere when you can simply fly? This makes gliding an entirely wasted area of development. If they wanted flying mounts they would never have opted for gliding in the first place.

Renders every other mount OBSOLETE. Why use a skimmer,jackal, raptor, or springer for their movement abilities? Why leap when you can fly? Why jump or float over water if you can again, fly? This much like the case of gliders makes an entire area of development effectively wasted.

Lastly, this game moreso than WoW depends upon player interactivity to make the flow of event chains feel more frequent and group oriented. Bid farewell to seeing players strolling along to help, they will be too high in the sky to see you nor care.

For people who often lament over the health of the game, I haven’t a clue as to why this is even a suggestion.

Torolan.5816:

I did not want to make an argument that raids and mounts are the same.

My argument is that Anet made a lot of people swallow the pill of raids, it is only fair if the next pill is something I enjoy and raiders don´t.

The optionality of raids is not the question, but for the sake of your argument i will still take the bait and bite:
*You can always choose to stay on ground and simply not use flying mounts for flying but simple riding or just stay on foot. So riding is completely optional. That other people fly is none of your business.(raids do not touch anyone not interested in them)
*It may be that some areas are only reachable by flying mount then. But this is also not relevant because you can always jump on the flying train too( the same as git gud).
You may at thisw point think that these two points contradict themselves. And you would be absolutely correct! The message been sent out is that you do not need to make raids in the same way that you do not need to reach that spot only reachable by flying because you still have old content to play(nonraiders have enough content).

You see, it is a lose/lose situation in my mind here, scorched earth.

So would, in your suggestion, flying mounts be restricted to small instances segregated from the rest of the game so that players disinterested in them might never encounter them, perhaps not even be aware of their existence? Essentially implemented in a manner that allows those who dislike them to not ever be placed in a situation to interact with or even perceive them..like raids are now?

Again, no.

The relevance, physical separation or importance of raids and mounts is of no importance for my argument. A raid could also be placed on a space station in the moon, it would not change anything.

Maybe we have a little misunderstanding here. Raids seep in the game in form of equipment I have no access to if I don´t bend over and do raids. Supporters of raids argue that I could always just raid ands get what I want, and I used their own chain of argument against it. It basically bends down to:
Don´t like it, don´t use it.
That you maybe can´t use the new map accoringly is of no importance, you still have old maps to play.
What do you mean, old maps are not sufficient for your enjoyment? The users of mounts just ask you for the new maps, and you can alway jump on the mount train.
So you see, everything is there:
Git gud, don´t like it don´t use it, it does not concern you because you still have old content to play.

I am not even a full time supporter of mounts, but if a mount lets me help get past obstacles I would have to use a guide to otherwise pass it, so be it.

I am going to re-state, that if flying mounts, actual flying, are put into this game I will uninstall and never support Arenanet again. After ten plus years of playing your games, I will quit.

The Greyhawk.9107:

I am going to re-state, that if flying mounts, actual flying, are put into this game I will uninstall and never support Arenanet again. After ten plus years of playing your games, I will quit.

Alas, the Greyhawk will never fly. :/

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

The Greyhawk.9107:

I am going to re-state, that if flying mounts, actual flying, are put into this game I will uninstall and never support Arenanet again. After ten plus years of playing your games, I will quit.

Alas, the Greyhawk will never fly. :/