Guild Wars 2

Lord Yoshi.6738:

-Everyone will know that saving people is the priority. You come up with a game plan before you even engage the boss so you know what to do for special situations.
-Before, dead weight costed the party time. With the change, they may cause more time.

Actually, what I forsee, is instead of attempting to res someone that is down, the easiest thing to do will be to get everyone out of the fight and reset it.

Why risk 4 more deaths when it would be easier to just reset the boss and try again – this time yelling extra at the 5th wheel that fell over.

You see; this fix doesn’t make people better at groups. It just makes groups worse at encounters. The groups are already bad, you are trying to push string up-hill by making bad groups worse at the encounters.

The end result of this change will be less people running that content. Unless they make it drastically easier – which will anger the “good” players that can already do this content.

Me? I would prefer it easier, my group of regulars isn’t good enough for many of the dungeons. But I am categorically not asking it to be made easier because I can at least do some of it with my group right now, and I understand that there are those that exist that think it is already too easy.

This is a tough problem. Removing combat-waypointing isn’t the solution.

Honestly, I’m just going to wait and see how this pans out.

Personally, I think you shouldn’t rely on waypoint-zerging to complete an encounter; and I know I have been relying less on it as I kept doing more dungeons. As such, the amount of experience I have learned through doing these dungeons allows me to rely less on zerging and knowing what to actually do in these encounters. Meaning that I would be more comfortable wearing more glass cannon gear and less bunker gear (assuming the situations of the dungeon group of course). If you’ve been running Fractals on a frequent basis, then those survivability skills could easily transfer over to running the original eight dungeons. I know running Fractals has weaned me off to using waypoints if I died in an encounter— it just means I have to put on my A-Game and “L2P” a little better.

With that said, I’d also imagine some of the encounters would have to be tweaked to accommodate the change. Subject Alpha would be the most notorious one seeing that most of the CoE groups I’ve been in usually resort to waypoint-zerging Round 3 of Alpha in most paths because his AoE abilities can be a bit ridiculous. As much I hate to see that fight nerfed, I could see it happening; but if ArenaNet wants more players (hardcore and casual alike) to experience the content, then some compromises would have to be made.

where can I see this original update post??

LOL. So now we stand in LA going: “LFG AC Exp P1. Only looking for group with good players?”
No LFG tool. No rez at WP while someone else in combat.
What’s next? Can only run Dungeons if all your group members are in the same guild?
For a game which has dynamic grouping, GW2 seems really dead set against PUGs.

Well, its a good thing I only invite players into the guild after a nice Lupi exam. No-one in my guild will be bothered by this.

They already said that they nerv the dungeon to become easier… I really don’t get how you can complain about difficulty here. Group-play gets rewarded so make sure to stand next to each other for a quick rezz, enemies won’t hit that hard anymore so dungeons probably become rather easy (which I don’t like).

Let’s see how the new boss-mechanics play out.

The reason no wp res if someone was still alive worked in GW1 was that the dungeons were mostly well designed with creative ways to take on the various bosses and the ability to set different builds for different environments.

The dungeons in GW2 just seem to be the same boring slog with different graphics and high hit point bosses.

It’s going to take some major dungeon redesign to make this change palatable.

I like this change. Dungeon attrition strategies were a bit ridiculous (looking at you, CoF).

HOWEVER, I want to play through certain bosses to make sure they feel balanced. If I die a few times, it’s fine. If the party in full exotics get’s face-rolled in 2 secs, then something may need to be worked on.

For these who say that you need to be downed 5 times to be completely defeated, you are forgetting that mobs love finishing off downed players. Once me ele goes down, next attack from some of the dungeon bosses finishes me off. And in worse case scenario, it also downs players that are trying to revive me. There are plenty of encounters in the dungeons where reviving downed players nearly impossible.

The dungeons will require a massive overhaul to support such mode of play. And for these elitists that love to point out how they win every encounter, you do understand that such change will nerf these fights that you are so proud of. Now, there is some sort of a balance, good players can win without wiping out and brag about it, bad players somehow manage to struggle through. With a change, these hard encounters will become easier to account for inability to use rez points. At least now we, “bad” players have a challenge to learn how to make through hard encounter without wiping out, now this challenge will be removed.

And I want to believe, really want to, that Arena will manage to change the dungeons in good way, but I just doubt that there was enough testing done. How about making some massive real-life testing? Make a third option when entering the dungeon, test run the new version of dungeon, no rewards for now. To see how different players manage this new system. I believe that there are plenty of people in the game who play for fun or for challenge, and they will try new system even without rewards.

I think this is good, though it may be too little too late.

Zerging is the most un-fun strategy and it was a shame it made it into the game in the first place.

When this update takes effect? In next update? (end of January?)
Could we then get more waypoints to dungeons too?

Are we forced to first wait now long time for either ress or wipe and then running back takes another long time in some dungeons (Arah Lupi)

So are we getting new Waypoints now too aswell?
If we get more waypoints, this will be good update to the dungeons but if we don’t, …

At this point I’m almost certain people are making these topics to build up better block lists of players that aren’t that great to have in dungeons. I would not be surprised at all.

I assume Anet is aware of the fact that this makes it impossible to do Crucible of Eternity on my server? Because even if I do find a group, chances are high I’m the only one who can stay alive through the Project Alpha boss phases…

On a side note, does this mean Glyph of Renewwal will once again be able to res defeated players?

ThiBash.5634:

I assume Anet is aware of the fact that this makes it impossible to do Crucible of Eternity on my server? Because even if I do find a group, chances are high I’m the only one who can stay alive through the Project Alpha boss phases…

On a side note, does this mean Glyph of Renewwal will once again be able to res defeated players?

Do people seriously have trouble with him? His red circles are pretty generous. They won’t one shot glass cannons, they have enough delay that you can walk out of them. The key is to not twitch dodge and strafe out instead.

ThiBash.5634:

I assume Anet is aware of the fact that this makes it impossible to do Crucible of Eternity on my server? Because even if I do find a group, chances are high I’m the only one who can stay alive through the Project Alpha boss phases…

On a side note, does this mean Glyph of Renewwal will once again be able to res defeated players?

They said they are going to “nerf” or tweak some encounters once they add the new system. We will have to wait and see

I welcome this change. Being forced to receive a repair bill instead of at least trying to do an encounter the proper way really ticked me off from doing CoF path 2.

Kakeru.2873:

So i should just stop leveling an engineer then?

XD lmao

I am curious how they plan to mitigate the boring downtime for the players that luck out in a bossfight and will have to lie around dead for a good time watching their teammates struggle.

Frotee.2634:

I am curious how they plan to mitigate the boring downtime for the players that luck out in a bossfight and will have to lie around dead for a good time watching their teammates struggle.

I don’t think that luck has to do with anything if you die 5 times in a single minute.

“Pull the boss away from injured members and res them for once you unskilled imbeciles!” is what Anet is telling us.

So, basically, because people should not be kiting while players are coming back, now people should kite while someone is rezzing ?
Does not make sense to me, it’s the same issue, but harder and less fun (People lie as a carpet on the floor …)
It COULD be a good idea IF dungeons were totally revamped in a good way, but seeing how they are currently designed, I highly doubt it would be OK.
Actually, what they would need to do is completely redesign dungeons, as if they had never existed, except for the places, types of enemies and names of bosses.

Also, other suggestion to encourage support gameplay without removing the fun :
On kill or as there are less players fighting the boss, boss gains buffs of power/fury or speed buff + attack speed buff (just like the abomination in COE when it hits).
It still punishes players for dying as it makes it more dangerous for those who are still alive. It makes it harder to stay alive and kite (especially with speed movement and attack speed). It thus fulfill the role : punish zerg rush, while not removing the fun.

If such an update cannot be avoided, there should be some major changes :
1) NERF HP : seriously, encounters with a lot of HP just isn’t fun. If fights are meant to be harder, have them faster. If you don’t die and understand the mechanics, if you don’t die after 2 min, you’re not likely to die after 15 min (except lags/dc etc … of course).
2) Along with #1 : add new mechanics on bosses. It seems to be planned with new ability with different phases with life going down.
3) Buff the rezzing speed : because it’s already very dangerous to rez teammates, if you have to, just have it faster so it’s possible.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Frotee.2634:

I am curious how they plan to mitigate the boring downtime for the players that luck out in a bossfight and will have to lie around dead for a good time watching their teammates struggle.

I don’t think that luck has to do with anything if you die 5 times in a single minute.

You don’t have to die 5 times in a single minute to end up dead – getting downed and finished off by the boss and/or its minions (or getting downed an an AoE) will do the trick just fine.
Like dying in TA in a nightmare vine spawn point…or having one pop up right behind you…

Frotee.2634:

You don’t have to die 5 times in a single minute to end up dead – getting downed and finished off by the boss and/or its minions (or getting downed an an AoE) will do the trick just fine.
Like dying in TA in a nightmare vine spawn point…or having one pop up right behind you…

I haven’t done TA, so I can’t be sure of what you’re on about. Isn’t there a way where it could be avoided if someone come to help you?

I could see how that would be a problem if you’re on your own. Very rarely anyone goes down on our runs in AC (group of friends) because we all work together rather than focus on DPS and clearing the content as quick as possible.

Not to mention they’ve said they’ll be looking at the encounters where that seems to be the only reasonable tactic.

It is really just a case of seeing:

• what fights they change, and how they change it to accommodate this
• how it works out

Off-topic: You a Dresden fan?

ThiBash.5634:

I assume Anet is aware of the fact that this makes it impossible to do Crucible of Eternity on my server? Because even if I do find a group, chances are high I’m the only one who can stay alive through the Project Alpha boss phases…

On a side note, does this mean Glyph of Renewwal will once again be able to res defeated players?

You do understand that since graveyard zerging was so easy, a lot of players didn’t even bother to learn how to survive correctly in boss fights. Preventing that will cause more players to play better.

I will never PuG agian I guess. This was the only thing that even made a PuG managable. I will also never bring a low level player into an explorable either. It would be near impossible to finish. Maybe explorables were only intended for 80’s and not as a way to level.

Can you imagine trying to fight Kohler in a PuG after this change LOL.

Shrug

Firstly, terrible idea. There’s already penalty for groups needing to zerg-rush; time and repairs. This is just going to cause all kinds of unnecessary problems.

Secondly, if they really really have to do it, why do it before the revamp? Surely encounters atm are balanced for being able to WP, and yet they plan to stop that before rebalancing? Do both at the same time, or do neither.

Ruprect.7260:

Can you imagine trying to fight Kohler in a PuG after this change LOL.

Kohler is actually not all that hard to deal with. It takes one or two fights to learn his prompts, but once you know the exact timing of his pull, it’s rather easily avoidable.

It’s a very dull fight though. It’s merely a case of smacking a wall of health, timing a dodge, continue hitting, etc. Rinse repeat for a few minutes … a very mindless dull fight.

DancingPenguins.9875:

Do people seriously have trouble with him? His red circles are pretty generous. They won’t one shot glass cannons, they have enough delay that you can walk out of them. The key is to not twitch dodge and strafe out instead.

What I dislike and have encountered a few times is during phase two (unlike one, and I don’t know three, never get a group to do it…), his circles tend to overlap and extend quite a bit in a confined space. Sometimes the circles overlap so much that you can’t clear it with one dodge roll, and the damage is enough to go down.

I don’t see the problem. The solution is pretty simple. 4 people engage in combat, the last person sits just outside of combat. If all 4 people die they rez all at once and the 5th person rushes in and reengages and starts kiting before the boss heals. This “fix” changes absolutely nothing, it just makes it so one person doesn’t get to participate in most boss fights.

Azjenco.9425:

Ruprect.7260:

Can you imagine trying to fight Kohler in a PuG after this change LOL.

Kohler is actually not all that hard to deal with. It takes one or two fights to learn his prompts, but once you know the exact timing of his pull, it’s rather easily avoidable.

It’s a very dull fight though. It’s merely a case of smacking a wall of health, timing a dodge, continue hitting, etc. Rinse repeat for a few minutes … a very mindless dull fight.

DancingPenguins.9875:

Do people seriously have trouble with him? His red circles are pretty generous. They won’t one shot glass cannons, they have enough delay that you can walk out of them. The key is to not twitch dodge and strafe out instead.

What I dislike and have encountered a few times is during phase two (unlike one, and I don’t know three, never get a group to do it…), his circles tend to overlap and extend quite a bit in a confined space. Sometimes the circles overlap so much that you can’t clear it with one dodge roll, and the damage is enough to go down.

Kohler isn’t that hard for a guild group. I have been in to many PuG’s that cannot do it and 2 ppl die every time.

I wonder about TA.

Yeh you know, the spores. I think people will wipe a lot more dealing with thrash mobs and spores.

And the the boss with the wurms and the 2 million red circles…and spores.

In fact, think of any boss that has an insta-kill effect.

I do believe they are making the normal dungeons a lot harder and pug-unfriendly to say the least.

One could wonder if that will have a positive effect on the game….or not.

idea: get rid of the dodge and downstate mechanic replace them with “real” healers and "real " tanks… after that u can do whatever the hell u want with the dungeons.. IMO there is no real tactics to any of these boss fights or dungeons, its dodge dodge doge rez rez rez roll yur face across your KB blow all CD rinse and repeat… just MO tho.

Lucky.4263:

idea: get rid of the dodge and downstate mechanic replace them with “real” healers and "real " tanks… after that u can do whatever the hell u want with the dungeons.. IMO there is no real tactics to any of these boss fights or dungeons, its dodge dodge doge rez rez rez roll yur face across your KB blow all CD rinse and repeat… just MO tho.

NO, that just makes it like every other MMO then. I got this game becasue it did not require the trinity. So sick of that mechanic.

lol this is NOT gonna work the way anet thinks it will. CoE is now gonna be dead for new players. I don’t have much problems on CoE, but most times i find myself alone kiting subject alpha whilst everyone is running back. Bye Bye PuGs, no more dungeons for you

LFG X em- lvl 80 only/warriors/guardians who can stay alive with atleast full exotics.

Ruprect.7260:

Lucky.4263:

idea: get rid of the dodge and downstate mechanic replace them with “real” healers and "real " tanks… after that u can do whatever the hell u want with the dungeons.. IMO there is no real tactics to any of these boss fights or dungeons, its dodge dodge doge rez rez rez roll yur face across your KB blow all CD rinse and repeat… just MO tho.

NO, that just makes it like every other MMO then. I got this game becasue it did not require the trinity. So sick of that mechanic.

They added a new tier…just like other MMOs
They are taking ress at waypoint during combat out….just like other MMOs
Tank builds do exist, healer builds in lesser forms.

Really as things progress this game will be more and more like other MMOs.

The lack of trinity exists only because people aren’t completely allowed to (mostly because tank builds can’t really control threat). That’s a thin line.

Gehenna.3625:

Ruprect.7260:

Lucky.4263:

idea: get rid of the dodge and downstate mechanic replace them with “real” healers and "real " tanks… after that u can do whatever the hell u want with the dungeons.. IMO there is no real tactics to any of these boss fights or dungeons, its dodge dodge doge rez rez rez roll yur face across your KB blow all CD rinse and repeat… just MO tho.

NO, that just makes it like every other MMO then. I got this game becasue it did not require the trinity. So sick of that mechanic.

They added a new tier…just like other MMOs
They are taking ress at waypoint during combat out….just like other MMOs
Tank builds do exist, healer builds in lesser forms.

Really as things progress this game will be more and more like other MMOs.

The lack of trinity exists only because people aren’t completely allowed to (mostly because tank builds can’t really control threat). That’s a thin line.

Right but just about any class can run a tanky build for survival, you do not need a tank or tank class to be successful. You can still pretty much run in a group made up of any professions. My point is, you don’t have to sit in chat spamming for a tank healer for hours to find a group. They may have just ruined that with this not able to WP while in battle. I feel bad for PuGGers it’s gonna be rough for them to find groups now.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

We played dungeons this way in GW1 for years and years and it worked just fine. Granted we didn’t have 1-shot bosses most of the time, but hopefully that’s something they are fixing. If this single change is going to end your gaming experience, then you need to go back to GW1 and get a little training on how skilled dungeon running should go, plain and simple.

Yes we did, but the dungeons in GW1 were a lot easier to complete than what we have now, the spastic insta kill mechanics will need to go if this change gets added..

Subject Alpha will need an overhaul in CoE or no one will bother ever doing the “lets run the entire map so the broken boss doesn’t reset” anymore…

I hope when you say revamp you mean make them actually completable, instead of bosses bugging and rehealing and insane skills that take a robot to complete..

Lucky.4263:

IMO there is no real tactics to any of these boss fights or dungeons.

I’d argue because there’s no need to use tactics.

Keep Weakness up as much as possible, since it reduces damage by 50%

Make use of Combo’s. In addition, some Fields can also affect enemy attacks as well, i.e. Smoke fields cause enemy projectiles to miss.

Save your CC that’s affected by Defiant for when someone goes down to give people a chance to res unhindered.

Sure, the tactics are a bit onesided but so is ‘that guy keeps his attention, that guy waves his hands and these three go pew pew.’

TheDaiBish.9735:

Lucky.4263:

IMO there is no real tactics to any of these boss fights or dungeons.

I’d argue because there’s no need to use tactics.

Keep Weakness up as much as possible, since it reduces damage by 50%

Make use of Combo’s. In addition, some Fields can also affect enemy attacks as well, i.e. Smoke fields cause enemy projectiles to miss.

Save your CC that’s affected by Defiant for when someone goes down to give people a chance to res unhindered.

Sure, the tactics are a bit onesided but so is ‘that guy keeps his attention, that guy waves his hands and these three go pew pew.’

good point, but the holy trinity is more organized and thought out.. where as gw2 is pure chaos (on few occasions “organized chaos”).. WP zerging isnt only required in dungeons its applied to most of the big encounters in PVE… these one hit KOs make no sense with no holy trinity..

slighty unrelated: just the other day was doing zone event in sylvari starting area, lvl 36.. did the whole meta event (note there were a few lvl 80s there assuming getting thier daily’s done) get curb stopped by a raging vet just as the world boss spawn, he was takin out before i culd make it back so no loot… point being i got facerolled by a lvl 15 vet and im lvl 36 (yes i know it scales u down).

Mystic.5934:

umm, if you can’t wp while dead and near enemies, what do you do when the party wipes?
and even if it wasn’t a wipe: won’t this make CoF path 2 nearly impossible? (where the accepted method of keeping magg alive is to take turns kite/die/kite/die/kite

Not at all. The very first time I did the dungeon, we went all-in to the room and survived. We merely all pulled some aggro, all killed what we could, and picked up anyone that went down. In the end all 5 of us made it and cleared the event without a single death.

Kakeru.2873:

So i should just stop leveling an engineer then?

Don’t give up, I am hoping they listened to us about the engineer issues in the other forum. I can’t imagine they don’t know the blatant issues we face and how this might completely make us useless.

TheDaiBish.9735:

EverythingXen.1835:

It also means if one person dies they get to waste their time on the floor while their group/guild/friends either take that much longer to win or take that much longer to wipe. Just replacing waypoint zerging with this isnt a solution.

You can go Down 4 times before instantly being Defeated. Each time you go Down you incur 1min of DP, which reduced Downed health by 25%. After a minute, the DP disappears. So it’s not like you are instantly dead.

I’d argue getting rid of that will encourage MORE teamwork to try and keep each other alive / in the game.

^this. also, it should promote party members glancing at health bars they way you would glance in your rear view mirror frequently while driving. this is a fine addition.

Lucky.4263:

good point, but the holy trinity is more organized and thought out.. where as gw2 is pure chaos (on few occasions “organized chaos”)

I quite like the chaos. And a well oiled team makes the majority of the chaos organised.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Lucky.4263:

good point, but the holy trinity is more organized and thought out.. where as gw2 is pure chaos (on few occasions “organized chaos”)

I quite like the chaos. And a well oiled team makes the majority of the chaos organised.

lets be honest the majority of the playerbase is not a well oiled team. (thats not to be taken as an insult to the playerbase.) based on my own superficial calculations 70% of the time Pug’s are running this content.

Lord Yoshi.6738:

-Four players can completely revive a dead person while in combat in around 5 seconds and a downed player with a sliver of hp left in around 2.5 seconds. Pretty sure those numbers are accurate but I haven’t precisely timed it.

Ahh, well then…it’s just fine and dandy right? It’s not like the boss won’t be kind enough to let your whole group stack up in one spot to resurrect someone. He won’t cast some nasty aoe spell that kills everyone in one-hit while they try to resurrect or anything. /rolleyes

Haha, now people will actually have to learn how to play. This could be awesome for pugs in future though, means the standard amount of skill is gonna be much higher than before.

Ruan Jacobz.1398:

Haha, now people will actually have to learn how to play. This could be awesome for pugs in future though, means the standard amount of skill is gonna be much higher than before.

Unfortunatly history has shown this not to be the case in other games. They won’t learn how to play they will just quit because they will not be able to find groups anymore.

Usually when they make big changes like this in a game they end up having to nerf the content so it is puggable again, or there is mass crying/quitting on the forums. I personally like the dungeons the way they are but I forsee a major nerf to them in the near future.

What the nay sayers here are failing to understand, is that Explorable Mode Dungeons are supposed to be the hardest content in this game. As it is right now, any pug can do any path of any dungeon with relative ease, with the exception of Arah. When a pug can enter the hardest content and complete it with extreme ease, then the content needs to be buffed, a lot.

As for those asking, “What/who does WP rushing hurt?” The answer is no one, but Anet does not want their dungeons being beaten like that, and that is all that matters. I’m personally getting a little excited about Dungeons now. Hopefully, they’ll become challenging for once. I found them challenging and fun back in September, but now that I’ve beaten them all countless times, they are just a place to grab some quick coin.

As for me, this change will make very little difference. I rarely let anyone die anyways, and I also run with guildies a lot, who all know the importance of reviving.

Ruprect.7260:

Ruan Jacobz.1398:

Haha, now people will actually have to learn how to play. This could be awesome for pugs in future though, means the standard amount of skill is gonna be much higher than before.

Unfortunatly history has shown this not to be the case in other games. They won’t learn how to play they will just quit because they will not be able to find groups anymore.

Usually when they make big changes like this in a game they end up having to nerf the content so it is puggable again, or there is mass crying/quitting on the forums. I personally like the dungeons the way they are but I forsee a major nerf to them in the near future.

the only thing i dnt understand is if yur gonna nerf them to the point of not having this WP zerg thing goin on, then why do u need to change the WP rez.. ppl wont use that method anymore… just take out the OP one hit KO’s these NPC dish out and fix the bug’s.

I am actually looking forward to this. I partially want to see people actually THINK more, but I also want to see what they do about the actual encounters (CoF zerg, TA spores and CoE Alpha…)

Gisei.5749:

What the nay sayers here are failing to understand, is that Explorable Mode Dungeons are supposed to be the hardest content in this game. As it is right now, any pug can do any path of any dungeon with relative ease, with the exception of Arah. When a pug can enter the hardest content and complete it with extreme ease, then the content needs to be buffed, a lot.

As for those asking, “What/who does WP rushing hurt?” The answer is no one, but Anet does not want their dungeons being beaten like that, and that is all that matters. I’m personally getting a little excited about Dungeons now. Hopefully, they’ll become challenging for once. I found them challenging and fun back in September, but now that I’ve beaten them all countless times, they are just a place to grab some quick coin.

As for me, this change will make very little difference. I rarely let anyone die anyways, and I also run with guildies a lot, who all know the importance of reviving.

this post screams "im “eeleet!!” and i have premade group of other “eeeleets!!” this change does not affect me so stopp yur QQ"… imma put it simply if anyone can make it through the dungeons with little to no wipes or death in current live game this change will not raise the skill cap for u, nor said party u are running with (i.e. premades).. this change only affect pug’s and is debatable if its good or bad for the games future.

Lucky.4263:

Ruprect.7260:

Ruan Jacobz.1398:

Haha, now people will actually have to learn how to play. This could be awesome for pugs in future though, means the standard amount of skill is gonna be much higher than before.

Unfortunatly history has shown this not to be the case in other games. They won’t learn how to play they will just quit because they will not be able to find groups anymore.

Usually when they make big changes like this in a game they end up having to nerf the content so it is puggable again, or there is mass crying/quitting on the forums. I personally like the dungeons the way they are but I forsee a major nerf to them in the near future.

the only thing i dnt understand is if yur gonna nerf them to the point of not having this WP zerg thing goin on, then why do u need to change the WP rez.. ppl wont use that method anymore… just take out the OP one hit KO’s these NPC dish out and fix the bug’s.

Anet must not see it coming. Based on my experience with PuGs they must find a lot of the dung’s hard. I have had only a few good pugs(and those were me filling a spot in a guild group), for the most part they seem to have a hard time. The only way some of these were completable with PuGs is if they could run back and even then it was an abysmal run. I forsee a lot of crying about how hard the dung’s are to pug after this change takes effect. I have seen this happen in too many games(Rift numerous times, Swtor, etc.). This is usually after an LFG is put in place that they nerf content, to make it PuG friendly. But this will be similar because it will make the content harder.