Guild Wars 2

In light of the DR implementation, I would like to offer my opinion on the most common response to DR, “if I want to play this way, I should be allowed to do so.” No, you shouldn’t. Now, before you fly into fits of rage and ignore the rest of this post, please read the entire post and carefully consider the discussion.

I’m all for being able to play your class however you wish, that is, you want to build glass cannon, go for it, you want to support? Please, do so. Even other in things, players deserve a faucet of freedom and choice as to how they play the game. However, regardless of even my opinion, mechanics and player option is entirely up to the developer.
After all, this is their vision, their hard work, and I am perfectly fine with conforming to whatever rules they see fit to implement to keep me from harming their vision. If I happen to come across something in the future that I disagree with, I may ask why they are doing it, and if their explanation doesn’t settle with mine I will move on to another game. I wouldn’t hold a grudge, or call doom upon their game, just move on. But I digress.
I feel that some players, not just in this game, have an unusual habit of attempting to morph a game that is not designed for their play style, into something more fitting for them. However, this again goes against the vision of the developers and the players more aligned with the original vision for the game. For example, would you attend a theme park, and throw a fit because you couldn’t ride their roller coaster backwards? Or if they asked you to get off the ride after the fourth time you didn’t get up after it stopped?
This isn’t designed to be a grind-your-face-off K-MMO for the old school power gamer. Nor is it an exercise in the masochistic, tired old gear treadmill we MMORPGers are so used to running on. In other words, the DR system is on course for preventive measure for the player to resort to these tired designs, rather than trying out the refreshing take the developers worked so hard on. What is so wrong with that?
If you want to grind for hours, there are other games that allow you to do so. Games that let you farm one material to flood the auction house with, etc. But please, don’t try to turn this game into that, there are players(a good number of them) that don’t want to see this game go that direction.

TL;DR : You, the player, are experiencing the developers vision. One should be willing to subject themselves to certain rules to allow it to remain intact.

Please, offer a counter-argument. Perhaps I’m missing something here, and I would gladly read a well expressed counter to my opinion. Maybe you can change my view?

Edit: I do understand that the DR system is a preventive measure against bots. This is however, I response to the players up in arms against the system. I do not speak for Anet by any means, and this is simply my opinion, my way to look at this system and the argument that many players submit in response to it.

Hogwash, the code is in place to prevent botting, and by association to get you to buy gems from Anet to sell for in-game currency(because they made money the single hardest thing to attain in the game). It has nothing to do with “vision” or anything artsy like that, it is all about money; real and otherwise.

If you want to grind for hours

Hi. I work. I don’t get to play the game, casually wandering around and enjoying the scenery, idling around and roleplaying, like the supposed developer’s vision. I log on in the weekends and play hard and fast. I shouldn’t get punished for that. I shouldn’t get my account put into some endlessly DR mode, making monsters entirely worthless to kill for god knows how long, simply because I have focused sessions when I actually get to sit down to play.

I refuse to believe the developers vision was that an event chain would have diminishing returns kick in before it was finished. I’m also sure they intended that I should be able to level crafting by obtaining the mats needed without having to “farm” the gold and go buy them on the tradepost.

Umm, while you think the DR puts a stop to “grind” all it does is put a delay rule into gathering materials for crafters, that or it forces players to either spend more in the TP or conversely spend more on gems.

You can deny all you want that players do not grind in games and prefer it that way, but you are just dead wrong, anyone who has played any MMO ever has always had this play style to fall back on. This was never touted by Anet as something they were going to “change” like the trinity change. The DR was implemented for one reason (until we are officially told otherwise by Anet) that it was to combat the gold sellers bots.

Anet needs to be more transparent when it comes to implementation of something so punitive towards honest players.

If there intention was to limit killing mobs to acquire crafting materials, then that should have been a priority in the BWE’s, it was never an issue.

Quite honestly, if i had known about this DR in the BWEs i would had asked for a refund to my purchase, i will not be punished for the actions of players who perform illegal actions.

I do not expect to “play anyway i want” i do expect to be able to play as i did in the BWEs and i do expect to have been informed properly by Anet about there decision to implement something so punitive.

Alesana.1390:

If you want to grind for hours

Hi. I work. I don’t get to play the game, casually wandering around and enjoying the scenery, idling around and roleplaying, like the supposed developer’s vision. I log on in the weekends and play hard and fast. I shouldn’t get punished for that. I shouldn’t get my account put into some endlessly DR mode, making monsters entirely worthless to kill for god knows how long, simply because I have focused sessions when I actually get to sit down to play.

I work, go to college, and have a child to look after. Why turn this game into another job, logging on to rush to the end when you can just enjoy the ride; however long it takes? Again, why try to play a game in a manner it wasn’t meant to be played, then get upset because you can’t do it?
“I don’t get to play…” this just shows you stopped looking at this as a game.

about dungeons and speedrun-token farming: you are (for the easiest and most fun and strategic way) restricted to the developer’s way of playing them, with their testet build and group of specific classes

so ways to speedrun were found, which is not what the devs had in mind

for anyone else, who does not do EXACTLY like the devs:
either rushing through, dying through or don’t do dungeons at all

now it’s the communities duty to find another, less lame ways, to bring fun into dungeons…

a timer is not the solution
just reduce the reward at the end for each avoided monster

btw, totally agree with TC’s first words about DR
dungeons are never intended to speedrun through – it’s faulty dungeon design getting exploited imo
and i’m sure it will be, as all the other restrictions, removed until a better solution is found
like the “blah blah blah you spammed too much”-message only comes up after a specific amount of players reported the player as spammer ( just an example – would be exploited in game to troll other players)

I give Anet the benefit of the doubt because there’s no way any rational developer would purposely give the legit player diminishing returns before he is actually able to complete an event chain. Just no way it’s intended.

At my current pace in Orr, unless they give us a panel that tells us specifically “you are about to hit DR, please stop playing” , I will continue to believe that this was entirely unintended. When they put the anti-farm code in, I think they had no idea how this would actually affect regular gameplay. If they did, and still made that choice, then that’s just horrible.

Even with the recent “This content has been disabled” spam, I’ll still give them benefit of the doubt but I’m not going to give them a clear green pass like OP; which is just burying head in sand.

ounkeo.9138:

I give Anet the benefit of the doubt because there’s no way any rational developer would purposely give the legit player diminishing returns before he is actually able to complete an event chain. Just no way it’s intended.

At my current pace in Orr, unless they give us a panel that tells us specifically “you are about to hit DR, please stop playing” , I will continue to believe that this was entirely unintended. When they put the anti-farm code in, I think they had no idea how this would actually affect regular gameplay. If they did, and still made that choice, then that’s just horrible.

Even with the recent “This content has been disabled” spam, I’ll still give them benefit of the doubt but I’m not going to give them a clear green pass like OP; which is just burying head in sand.

While I can agree that the DR can be toned down(which I would assume will happen if they see it fit) you tone still implies that all of these players have no choice in finding a different way to approach the game until we hear more about the system. I’m not burying my head in the sand, this is their game. They have access to the data that allows them to see exactly how many players are hitting DR, how often, and it is best left to them to decide, by these data sets exactly how to tune their system. I have yet hit the DR in a matter that has been detrimental to my play. But I don’t grind. But, if you hit DR, play an alt, do some exploring.

They haven’t even announced a slew of new content. Why so hurried?

There is no end to my game. I’m rushing to the beginning of it, especially after I rerolled my elementalist because it couldn’t do what I wanted and don’t care to “take my time to enjoy the view” with a new character. So I’m sorry if I don’t want to waste 20 minutes collecting plants for some stupid heart.
And I know very well what it is to make a game into a job, but GW2 isn’t it. I’m quite detached from it as it is, but it’s pretty lame to force me into even more breaks, putting me into DR mode for an entire day or more.

tOss.9024:

Alesana.1390:

If you want to grind for hours

Hi. I work. I don’t get to play the game, casually wandering around and enjoying the scenery, idling around and roleplaying, like the supposed developer’s vision. I log on in the weekends and play hard and fast. I shouldn’t get punished for that. I shouldn’t get my account put into some endlessly DR mode, making monsters entirely worthless to kill for god knows how long, simply because I have focused sessions when I actually get to sit down to play.

I work, go to college, and have a child to look after. Why turn this game into another job, logging on to rush to the end when you can just enjoy the ride; however long it takes? Again, why try to play a game in a manner it wasn’t meant to be played, then get upset because you can’t do it?
“I don’t get to play…” this just shows you stopped looking at this as a game.

removing impedements to game play won’t ever change how you play your game. It just won’t.

If they removed diminishing returns, how would this affect your ability to play the game you currently play? It wouldn’t. At all. And If I’m not mistaken, the greatest source of complaints is on level 80’s complaining about diminishing returns… Like I said above, i give Anet benefit of doubt that this is completely unintended for a legit player to start a large event chain and by the end, get penalised for it with diminshed returns.

How in the green earth are you or anyone else able to argue for a system as broken as that.

That is like going on a rollercoaster ride that slows down every 5 seconds and by the 15th second, it stops completely and you have to get off the carriage, wait 30 minutes (or however long) before it starts again.

You are arguing that this is the way it was intended by design. i would argue that this was not by design at all. In fact, it was designed counter to that. The slowdown and forcing you to get out of the carriage is an artificial rule enforced on a system designed to be run completely through in 1 minute instead of start/stop over the next 1 hour before you complete the ride.

Just look at the whoel design of the game. It is counter, completely counter, to your arguements. the rules they are enforcing are working against the actual design which is why we have broken diminishing returns on legit activities.

ounkeo.9138:

tOss.9024:

Alesana.1390:

If you want to grind for hours

Hi. I work. I don’t get to play the game, casually wandering around and enjoying the scenery, idling around and roleplaying, like the supposed developer’s vision. I log on in the weekends and play hard and fast. I shouldn’t get punished for that. I shouldn’t get my account put into some endlessly DR mode, making monsters entirely worthless to kill for god knows how long, simply because I have focused sessions when I actually get to sit down to play.

I work, go to college, and have a child to look after. Why turn this game into another job, logging on to rush to the end when you can just enjoy the ride; however long it takes? Again, why try to play a game in a manner it wasn’t meant to be played, then get upset because you can’t do it?
“I don’t get to play…” this just shows you stopped looking at this as a game.

removing impedements to game play won’t ever change how you play your game. It just won’t.

If they removed diminishing returns, how would this affect your ability to play the game you currently play? It wouldn’t. At all. And If I’m not mistaken, the greatest source of complaints is on level 80’s complaining about diminishing returns… Like I said above, i give Anet benefit of doubt that this is completely unintended for a legit player to start a large event chain and by the end, get penalised for it with diminshed returns.

How in the green earth are you or anyone else able to argue for a system as broken as that.

That is like going on a rollercoaster ride that slows down every 5 seconds and by the 15th second, it stops completely and you have to get off the carriage, wait 30 minutes (or however long) before it starts again.

You are arguing that this is the way it was intended by design. i would argue that this was not by design at all. In fact, it was designed counter to that. The slowdown and forcing you to get out of the carriage is an artificial rule enforced on a system designed to be run completely through in 1 minute instead of start/stop over the next 1 hour before you complete the ride.

Just look at the whoel design of the game. It is counter, completely counter, to your arguements. the rules they are enforcing are working against the actual design which is why we have broken diminishing returns on legit activities.

As I said a couple posts above you, I’m not saying that DR couldn’t be toned down. I’m open to different views.(as I stated in the OP) It does seem from some posts that the leash is somewhat tight. However, I know others who don’t have a huge problem with it. Again, they have access to the empirical data, not I. Which is why I argue to let the developer work towards a better, sustainable system. And, rather then being so obtuse about the matter, be patient. I don’t think that a player shouldn’t offer some insight(after all, there is an entire subforum for this) but one should be more considerate of the people doing all of the work.

I don’t think DR even affects bots as badly as it does human players. Bots stand around in one area with events that respawn in short timer periods, sure, but in the same time, a human player will bounce between 3 other events while the bot is sitting there shooting at nothing.
A lot of bots don’t maximize their monster tagging as well.

If this is done to throttle back human player’s advancement, it could be done by in some sort of weekly basis so playing a lot in short bursts doesn’t get punished the same way someone plays all the time.
If it’s done to fight bots, it’s a stupid system that doesn’t fight the source. Attack them getting accounts in the first place, attack them distributing their gains, don’t just go “oh, we’ll let them farm for 3 weeks, just at a slightly slower pace.” What’s even stopping them from swapping accounts every so often to avoid DR? Surely unsophisticated personal botting isn’t as damaging as bot systems set up the sell gold and power leveling.

As I suggested elsewhere, one thing that could help bring bots under control is to take out or alter the dynamic events that seem to be most bot-susceptible. The Kessex Hills bridge-repair battle is a good case in point, as are other events that basically consist of defending a static location against waves of enemy assaults. Those events seem to be the most liable to exploitation by botters since, as Alesana pointed out, “Bots stand around in one area with events that respawn in short timer periods”. Taking out or changing those sorts of events would be a good way to ameliorate the bot problem without having to go to alternatives like DR.

Alesana.1390:

There is no end to my game. I’m rushing to the beginning of it, especially after I rerolled my elementalist because it couldn’t do what I wanted and don’t care to “take my time to enjoy the view” with a new character. So I’m sorry if I don’t want to waste 20 minutes collecting plants for some stupid heart.
And I know very well what it is to make a game into a job, but GW2 isn’t it. I’m quite detached from it as it is, but it’s pretty lame to force me into even more breaks, putting me into DR mode for an entire day or more.

This is not WoW. You don’t unlock new content by being 80 and wearing all Epics Exotics, you only make the content you could see at 30/40/50/60/70 easier. I don’t PvP a lot, but I think the playing field is even more level there. GW2 isn’t made to let you slaughter noobs or mobs that you vastly outgear.

I get your drive to reach the top, I used to play that way too, until I got “old”. But you say you’re racing for the beginning. It’s not the beginning. When you reach 80, max out your professions, deck out your character in Exotics… There’s nothing to actually do with them except strut through town to show off. Sure, you could run (more) dungeons, but why do that if you already have equally strong gear?

I’d rather try all the content on my way up and when I find something too hard for my current level skip it and come back later. I poke around in all corners of a map to find events I can trigger so that I can do them on my own or with a few others at most.
Yeah, I level slowly since you get almost no reward for spending 15 minutes killing a champion mob by yourself. I don’t care. It was fun and I know that by the time I get to 80, the zones there will be less buggy and more fun than they are now.

MMO’s by their very name are made to “play how you want”… granted, not today’s MMO’s since they are really not MMO"s as such, more of a mmo’lite. But, this has nothing to do with forcing us to play within their tightly controlled micro management. This is purely to force us to buy gold off the market, that Anet setup.

I like many oldschool MMO’ers love to travel an kill mobs for loot to see what they drop, an make money. With Anet removing that ability, they remove what many of us play the game for.

Don’t presume that I know nothing about the game and how it’s devoid of end game gear centric content/grind.
If you like looking at pretty trees, to each his own, but I rather make the most of my time as I have it rather then get punished for playing a lot in one day.

MMO’s by their very name are made to “play how you want”…

No, they’re not. As with any designed game system, the only things you get to do are those designed into the system, and beyond that, those things the developers allow. GW2, like any MMOG, has design parameters. You don’t get mounts, you don’t get to play as the bird race, mesmers don’t get to wear heavy armor and Asuras don’t get to start out the size of Norn. You don’t get to take your gear with you to sPvP and you don’t get open-world (in the regular PvE zones) PvP. You don’t get to bogart resource nodes or kick players out of your squad in WvW. You can’t exclude any player that waltzes by from jumping into whatever your guild is doing in the common zones and participating.

You get to play “your way” only as long as it fits the intended purposes of the game designers. When your gameplay (or that of enough players) goes outside of those parameters, they will take action as they see fit. Obviously, the developers of the game see fit, for whatever reason, to put in the DR system. Claiming that they are not allowing you to play as you wish is an empty complaint because no MMOG lets players do “whatever they want to do” in their games.

Just because you want to be able to do something in the game doesn’t mean ANET should provide for it or allow it. As with any game, you have to make your decisions if you want to continue to play any game if they move in a direction that doesn’t suit you. That’s why I stopped playing MMOGs a few years ago; the genre had moved away from what I found enjoyable.

GW2 brought me back, and the DR system doesn’t affect my gameplay at all, nor do I have a problem with them installing it in principle because it fits in perfectly with the overall game philosophy as I understand it.

If you like looking at pretty trees, to each his own, but I rather make the most of my time as I have it rather then get punished for playing a lot in one day.

“Looking at pretty trees” and “making the most of one’s time” are not mutually exclusive choices. Nobody is punished for “playing a lot” in one day unless the only goal they have is “maximizing rewards”.

Ye,sure. You are not entirely wrong. Yes, it’s the developers that make the game and it’s we that get to play it.

That doesn’t mean that we can’t give feedback about how much satisfied we are with something in the game and why removing/tweaking it would make the game more enjoyable for a big part of the playerbase. You know, last time I checked, games are sold because people want to have fun out of them.

They make the game, but that doesn’t change the fact that:
a) Having crafting that requires items who drop from specific monster types.
and
b) Achievements of killing specific monster types up to 1000 times.
while having
c) Diminishing return on xp and loot when killing the same monster type
is a decision that contradicts the previous decisions.

They make the game, yes, that doesn’t mean that everyone is obliged to suck up on a bad system. The developers provide the food, but the playerbase is the blood of the game.

I think they should bring back monster and node ‘tagging’… And after that remove DR and let players fight for the resources they so much love.

Then, after realizing that the DR system was netting them 2x more resources in a given timeframe just because they never had to fight for them, ever, they will want it back the way it was.

And noone will ever be able to complain about a system with no DR but with all kinds of resource tagging competition, as it is the common on any mmo out there.

I like to grief people and cyber in chat with the womenz. Why won’t GW2 let me play the way I want?

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

MMO’s by their very name are made to “play how you want”…

No, they’re not. As with any designed game system, the only things you get to do are those designed into the system, and beyond that, those things the developers allow. GW2, like any MMOG, has design parameters. You don’t get mounts, you don’t get to play as the bird race, mesmers don’t get to wear heavy armor and Asuras don’t get to start out the size of Norn. You don’t get to take your gear with you to sPvP and you don’t get open-world (in the regular PvE zones) PvP. You don’t get to bogart resource nodes or kick players out of your squad in WvW. You can’t exclude any player that waltzes by from jumping into whatever your guild is doing in the common zones and participating.

You get to play “your way” only as long as it fits the intended purposes of the game designers. When your gameplay (or that of enough players) goes outside of those parameters, they will take action as they see fit. Obviously, the developers of the game see fit, for whatever reason, to put in the DR system. Claiming that they are not allowing you to play as you wish is an empty complaint because no MMOG lets players do “whatever they want to do” in their games.

Just because you want to be able to do something in the game doesn’t mean ANET should provide for it or allow it. As with any game, you have to make your decisions if you want to continue to play any game if they move in a direction that doesn’t suit you. That’s why I stopped playing MMOGs a few years ago; the genre had moved away from what I found enjoyable.

GW2 brought me back, and the DR system doesn’t affect my gameplay at all, nor do I have a problem with them installing it in principle because it fits in perfectly with the overall game philosophy as I understand it.

If you like looking at pretty trees, to each his own, but I rather make the most of my time as I have it rather then get punished for playing a lot in one day.[/quote]

“Looking at pretty trees” and “making the most of one’s time” are not mutually exclusive choices. Nobody is punished for “playing a lot” in one day unless the only goal they have is “maximizing rewards”.
[/quote]

Very well said!
I agree with you completely and so far I have been playing the game exactly how I want I have never been punished for it or forced into any kind of activity I don’t feel like doing
I got exactly what I expected from this game and I am only getting started.

I also think the DR isn’t just about botting but also to curb unwanted playing styles.

Got to love the “I don’t get affected by the DR, thus everything is ok” joke.

So, whatever is best for you means that it’s best for everyone?

You want to tell us how to play something?
What’s next? You’ll want to dictate others on their job, study or whatever?

Apos.5184:

Got to love the “I don’t get affected by the DR, thus everything is ok” joke.

So, whatever is best for you means that it’s best for everyone?

You want to tell us how to play something?
What’s next? You’ll want to dictate others on their job, study or whatever?

Noone wants to tell you how you should play, they are trying to tell you how the game allows you to play.

If you think you should be entitled a game that completely suits your playstyle, that’s a whole different topic.

Apos.5184:

Got to love the “I don’t get affected by the DR, thus everything is ok” joke.

So, whatever is best for you means that it’s best for everyone?

You want to tell us how to play something?
What’s next? You’ll want to dictate others on their job, study or whatever?

This is not the first game ever made with rules and/or restrictions.

@Dradin
“I do not expect to “play anyway i want” i do expect to be able to play as i did in the BWEs and i do expect to have been informed properly by Anet about there decision to implement something so punitive.”

Thank you Dradin for posting this.

I do not understand the strong player support for post-launch DR. It is a change that is not curving bots but is frustrating players. I have said it before and will say it again – I love this game but believe that Arenanet should remove DR immediately. This has caused unnecessary frustration among an otherwise happy customer group. Also, is it coincidence that after DR is added, the game goes into a broken state? e.g. DEs not progressing or starting at all anymore.

1. Per Arenanet’s admission, the DR code contains a bug that has undesired negative, player limiting outcomes.
2. DR has not curved bot activity.
3. DR has not curved dungeon speed run activity. People are still requesting dungeon speed runs.
4. Crafting fine material drops were sparse before DR but almost non-existent now. In 4 weeks, I have yet to get a powerful blood (even with high magic find). Have also noticed a sharp drop-off of other fine mats and loot in general during normal, non-farming play.
5. Players are reporting significant decreases in DE rewards. Yes, part of this probably relates to the bug but why leave the code in for this long. The fix should be a complete removal to ensure that the unintended outcome never happens again.

tOss.9024:

Snip

What a long and incoherent pile of rambling drivel.

The DR was implemented after the game was released! It wasn’t part of any vision.

It was a knee-jerk reaction to some serious desgin flaws that became apparent after the game was released.

Vision!? Yeah, right,

I’m all for you putting across a reasoned and balanced argument, but I’m not going to sit here and listen to you make things up, because it supports your short-sighted views on what “good” a DR system does.

Not only that, but the official line we get from ANet is that DR exists to curb bots and automated play. It’s nothing to do with trying to get legitimate players to alter their playstyles to suit a “skin oriented game.”

As has already been said in the thread, quite rightly, the DR is punitive in many different ways.

Your assessment is so far wide of the mark it’s risible.

If you can’t see by the overwhelming community response to DR, that’s it’s hated, then you must be spending all your time in other forums, are trolling or haven’t even bothered to read anything anyone else has says.

What a load of rubbish! I needed a good laugh.

The most imporant and damaging aspect of DR is that is alters standard bot behaviour and forces them into our DEs and has also caused bots to increase in number to fight against the effects of DR.

It’s been explained many times already. There are serious unforseen consequences of DR that ANet just didn’t think about.

They caused a big big mess with this and they’re not doing much to reverse it.

It’s going to cause serious damage. It is causing serious damage right now.

If you can’t see that, then I can’t help you. We’ve said all we can say about it.

Either it’ll get fixed or this game will falter and fail, before it’s even had a chance to be a success.

It is that simple.

Apos.5184:

Got to love the “I don’t get affected by the DR, thus everything is ok” joke.

Is it any worse than the “I hate DR therefore everyone must hate it (plus there are lots of threads on the forums about people hating it) therefore everyone is going to leave the game d0000mz0r” joke?

RoninsBack.4023:

tOss.9024:

Snip

What a long and incoherent pile of rambling drivel.

The DR was implemented after the game was released! It wasn’t part of any vision.

It was a knee-jerk reaction to some serious desgin flaws that became apparent after the game was released.

Vision!? Yeah, right,

I’m all for you putting across a reasoned and balanced argument, but I’m not going to sit here and listen to you make things up, because it supports your short-sighted views on what “good” a DR system does.

Not only that, but the official line we get from ANet is that DR exists to curb bots and automated play. It’s nothing to do with trying to get legitimate players to alter their playstyles to suit a “skin oriented game.”

As has already been said in the thread, quite rightly, the DR is punitive in many different ways.

Your assessment is so far wide of the mark it’s risible.

If you can’t see by the overwhelming community response to DR, that’s it’s hated, then you must be spending all your time in other forums, are trolling or haven’t even bothered to read anything anyone else has says.

What a load of rubbish! I needed a good laugh.

The most imporant and damaging aspect of DR is that is alters standard bot behaviour and forces them into our DEs and has also caused bots to increase in number to fight against the effects of DR.

It’s been explained many times already. There are serious unforseen consequences of DR that ANet just didn’t think about.

They caused a big big mess with this and they’re not doing much to reverse it.

It’s going to cause serious damage. It is causing serious damage right now.

If you can’t see that, then I can’t help you. We’ve said all we can say about it.

Either it’ll get fixed or this game will falter and fail, before it’s even had a chance to be a success.

It is that simple.

Have you considered that the Op might be spending his time inside the game playing and not sitting on the forums spreading negativity?
I assure you that this is made to be much more urgent on the forums- I have not seen anybody complaining about it in the game ever.
Your entire post is hostile, the OP was not however.

Heads up, people botted in BWE, no one died, materials were easy to come by, money was easy to come by. DR doesn’t hurt bots, it hurts players. A bot grinding with DR up for 12 hours still makes more than a player grinding for 8 hours. DR is a flawed system at it’s core. It hinders players more than it does botters, and the dungeon DR system has no excuse for existing.

Some of us don’t have much time to play during the week. If we want to instead play all day on Saturday, why shouldn’t we be able to? The DR system sucks for players and doesn’t stop bots. It’s like DRM. It needs to go.

Morrigan.2809:

Have you considered that the Op might be spending his time inside the game playing and not sitting on the forums spreading negativity?
I assure you that this is made to be much more urgent on the forums- I have not seen anybody complaining about it in the game ever.
Your entire post is hostile, the OP was not however.

Don’t bother argueing with him. He’s a person who thinks his views are right and others are wrong. Only his views can “save” the game aka do as i tell or…

He didn’t even get the point the OP was making. One look at these forums and you can see him and 3 others repeating the same stuff over and over again in numerous threads.

firstly, the blame is squarely on Anets shoulders for claiming you can play how you want in the first place, a seasoned dev like them should know better than to promise things you already know you can’t possibly deliver, and a game that can be played any which way you want is simply not possible, too many different preferences and too many unreasonable nutters who will take the term too literally.

secondly, I do expect to go to a theme park and have 100 + goes on the rotating clowns, and on the 150th try I would expect that I have the same chance of winning the big prize as when I started, not to be told that now I can’t win anything not from the consolation box just because I’ve played too long.

thirdly, you don’t understand something very key to game development, you aren’t making the game for yourself, you are making it for your players (no this isn’t entitlement speaking, this is game design 101) and if they don’t enjoy it then nuts to you.

lastly, you can’t make a game and then put arbitrary limitations on the players because you want them to “play with all of it”, if someone only wants to play one aspect of the game, and you are forcing them to play parts they don’t enjoy just because you think it’s better than something is wrong with that designer. you don’t punish people for playing the content they enjoy. what a good game designer would do is add INCENTIVE to diversify game-play, give people a reason to try multiple aspects of the game WITHOUT punishing them for only playing one, it’s all well and good to get people to try new things, but it’s a whole new cake when you force them to play parts that they don’t enjoy when there are perfectly good parts they do (and it’s not as easy as “go play something else” sure that’s a solution for the player, but it doesn’t help the game get better, and I think ANet will agree with me that it’s always good to make your game better).

P.S. the last half I’m not just talking about DR, believe it or not they do it in other ways as well, and those other ways usually fly straight into the face of their design philosophies.

Thank you for writing this post. I feel the same way, and there are many of us out there that either don’t care about the DR or have still found ways to make money.

A little part of me thinks that the people who rail so hard against the DR on these forums are actually the people who it would hurt the most… (wink wink bots).

I agree you shouldn’t hold a grudge or wish doom on the game. I used to think this was the best MMO out, but now I feel it still needs some time to improve.

My complaints are not your typical. Myself, I found that the game felt neglected after level 50. DR or not, drop rates just stopped working properly to maintain even one crafting discipline. Also doesn’t help that the crafting system is far too linear. There needs to be a lot more recipes and choices.

Wave after wave of inquest or risen, and the maps getting progressively uglier, just didn’t float my boat either. Additionally, I expected more in the way of RP mechanics, as I’ve talked in detail about in posts, and in my blog. GW2 lacks even the most basic RP mechanics to actually make it an MMORPG, and while I love hack-n-slash I can only take about an hour of it at a time. People who say, “I’m just not engrossed”, or “GW2 just doesn’t pull me in”, need to consider this factor. The world is beautiful, but only acts as a backdrop for combat and very little else.

Myself, I’ll just take a break from it, re-sub to an old favourite (no not WoW). I’m very hopeful though, that things will improve in a month or two. Anet seems very talented and attentive. They do need to take support and security a little more seriously though. I don’t think they expected such a huge influx of players and hackers alike… and I feel horrible for those who had their accounts cleaned out with no restoration being possible.

Zoridium JackL.7463:

firstly, the blame is squarely on Anets shoulders for claiming you can play how you want in the first place, a seasoned dev like them should know better than to promise things you already know you can’t possibly deliver, and a game that can be played any which way you want is simply not possible, too many different preferences and too many unreasonable nutters who will take the term too literally.

This really makes me sad. I thought we, human beings, were capable of subjective reasoning as well as objective one, but it’s clear that some people just can’t. “Play how you want”. Guess even without the DR it would never be the case, right? Can you fly if you want? Cant you PK people around DEs, if you want? Can you walk around naked if you want? Yeah, lets just complain until the end of the days, then, because “play how you want” won’t ever be the case. You should knew that way before buying the game.

secondly, I do expect to go to a theme park and have 100 + goes on the rotating clowns, and on the 150th try I would expect that I have the same chance of winning the big prize as when I started, not to be told that now I can’t win anything not from the consolation box just because I’ve played too long.

Well, guess now you are starting to understand that a game is not made solely based on our expectations, right? Can you accept this as a fact? If yes, have fun. If not, better start looking for different hobbies.

thirdly, you don’t understand something very key to game development, you aren’t making the game for yourself, you are making it for your players (no this isn’t entitlement speaking, this is game design 101) and if they don’t enjoy it then nuts to you.

And that’s exactly what they acomplished. They made a great game for the players. There are thousands of players our there loving the game and the experience it gives them. What you don’t seem to understand is that you are not the only player out there. While you and some others are here, complaining, others are playing the game exactly the way it allows them to, and are having fun. Why should something change because of you? Are you any better than anyone else?

lastly, you can’t make a game and then put arbitrary limitations on the players because you want them to “play with all of it”, if someone only wants to play one aspect of the game, and you are forcing them to play parts they don’t enjoy just because you think it’s better than something is wrong with that designer. you don’t punish people for playing the content they enjoy. what a good game designer would do is add INCENTIVE to diversify game-play, give people a reason to try multiple aspects of the game WITHOUT punishing them for only playing one, it’s all well and good to get people to try new things, but it’s a whole new cake when you force them to play parts that they don’t enjoy when there are perfectly good parts they do (and it’s not as easy as “go play something else” sure that’s a solution for the player, but it doesn’t help the game get better, and I think ANet will agree with me that it’s always good to make your game better).

So, I hate leveling, but I love exploring dungeons… I hate GW because here, I’m forced to level, that means, playing an aspect of the game I really don’t like, just to be able to do what I like. kitten this game is horrible!

/sarcasm

So, in the ever changing world of the mmos, you believe that nothing could ever be made that can possibly hinder the playing experience somehow? Ever? Are you really that naive? I played almost every MMO out there since UO, back in 97. I can tell you that every single one of them have, in their past, made modifications that limited, somehow, the playing experience. So I guess you should start your own gaming company and be the one who will change the mmo industry for good, making a game where no limiting mechanic will ever be created. I wish you luck!

Zoridium JackL.7463:

firstly, the blame is squarely on Anets shoulders for claiming you can play how you want in the first place, a seasoned dev like them should know better than to promise things you already know you can’t possibly deliver, and a game that can be played any which way you want is simply not possible, too many different preferences and too many unreasonable nutters who will take the term too literally.

secondly, I do expect to go to a theme park and have 100 + goes on the rotating clowns, and on the 150th try I would expect that I have the same chance of winning the big prize as when I started, not to be told that now I can’t win anything not from the consolation box just because I’ve played too long.

thirdly, you don’t understand something very key to game development, you aren’t making the game for yourself, you are making it for your players (no this isn’t entitlement speaking, this is game design 101) and if they don’t enjoy it then nuts to you.

lastly, you can’t make a game and then put arbitrary limitations on the players because you want them to “play with all of it”, if someone only wants to play one aspect of the game, and you are forcing them to play parts they don’t enjoy just because you think it’s better than something is wrong with that designer. you don’t punish people for playing the content they enjoy. what a good game designer would do is add INCENTIVE to diversify game-play, give people a reason to try multiple aspects of the game WITHOUT punishing them for only playing one, it’s all well and good to get people to try new things, but it’s a whole new cake when you force them to play parts that they don’t enjoy when there are perfectly good parts they do (and it’s not as easy as “go play something else” sure that’s a solution for the player, but it doesn’t help the game get better, and I think ANet will agree with me that it’s always good to make your game better).

P.S. the last half I’m not just talking about DR, believe it or not they do it in other ways as well, and those other ways usually fly straight into the face of their design philosophies.

I agree that there is a problem on the marketing side of any company. Truth is they all do this. But aside from saying that you could play anyway you want, they also made it very clear this was not a grind game. And you can still grind, just not in the same place without DR hitting you, but switch areas and you can keep farming. What people are complaining about really is that they have to use their brain and that it takes a little longer, not the actual DR. If other areas gave the same rewards, hardly anyone would be complaining. It’s about grind efficiency (RPS), not that you cannot grind just that the people going 200 km/h now have to go at 180 km/h. They say it’s worse but it isn’t. That’s all exaggeration.

And every game has limits. It’s a programmed organism, not a living one and therefore has borders and patterns that need reprogramming to change. The problem isn’t that there are borders or limits but that they changed and a number of people are unwilling to adapt.

Yes, unwilling to go to other areas. Unwilling to accept that they need to take a little bit longer (not a lot longer, that’s their own fault for not getting that).

And no game can cater to every play style. You chose to focus on one sentence in the marketing campaing and ignored the rest. I put the blame on yourself for wanting this game to be something it isn’t.

Either way you will leave. Because of anger over DR or because of burning through content. You can’t cater to that group of players much cause they always leave in the first couple of months.

This helps the more long term player that stays cause he likes it for what it is and not hates it for what it isn’t.

Zoridium JackL.7463:

lastly, you can’t make a game and then put arbitrary limitations on the players because you want them to “play with all of it”, if someone only wants to play one aspect of the game, and you are forcing them to play parts they don’t enjoy just because you think it’s better than something is wrong with that designer. you don’t punish people for playing the content they enjoy. what a good game designer would do is add INCENTIVE to diversify game-play, give people a reason to try multiple aspects of the game WITHOUT punishing them for only playing one, it’s all well and good to get people to try new things, but it’s a whole new cake when you force them to play parts that they don’t enjoy when there are perfectly good parts they do (and it’s not as easy as “go play something else” sure that’s a solution for the player, but it doesn’t help the game get better, and I think ANet will agree with me that it’s always good to make your game better).

Do you also complain if a game like lets say tetris doesn’t have any crafting and you can’t play the game like you want? I know, stupid example right? However, it’s not that different from this game nor any game for that matter.

You are more than welcome to play however you want. That doesn’t mean your play style is going to be as effective as every other style.

congratulations on missing every single point I was trying to make.

deriver.5381:

This really makes me sad. I thought we, human beings, were capable of subjective reasoning as well as objective one, but it’s clear that some people just can’t. “Play how you want”. Guess even without the DR it would never be the case, right? Can you fly if you want? Cant you PK people around DEs, if you want? Can you want around naked if you want? Yeah, lets just complain until the end of the days, then, because “play how you want” won’t ever be the case. You should knew that way before buying the game.

you understand that that is exactly what i was saying yeah? that there are people like that out there and ANet should know this, I wasn’t saying I was like that (I know exactly what they meant, and I don’t think they achieved it entirely on the level they intended, but I’ve already outlines that in detail elsewhere), and no it won’t ever be the case because of the wide variety of players out there, you can;t feasibly cater to all of them nor should you try.

deriver.5381:

Well, guess now you are starting to understand that a game is not made solely based on our expectations, right? Can you accept this as a fact? If yes, have fun. If not, better start looking for different hobbies.

you missed my point, a developer shouldn’t punish the player for playing the part they enjoy, it has nothing to do with my personal preferences (even had DR been implemented while I still played it wouldn’t have affected me in the slightest), if I don’t enjoy slippery slides at the theme park, and I know for a fact that I don’t enjoy it, I don’t want to be docked half my arcade tickets because I choose not to go on it, and you’d have to be a stupid thempark manager to come up with such a silly rule.

thirdly, you don’t understand something very key to game development, you aren’t making the game for yourself, you are making it for your players (no this isn’t entitlement speaking, this is game design 101) and if they don’t enjoy it then nuts to you.

deriver.5381:

And that’s exactly what they acomplished. They made a great game for the players. There are thousands of players our there loving the game and the experience it gives them. What you don’t seem to understand is that you are not the only player out there. While you and some others are here, complaining, others are playing the game exactly the way it allows them to, and are having fun. Why should something change because of you? Are you any better than anyone else?

again you miss my point, when designing a game you have to take into account that there will be different kinds of people playing it, especially with MMOs, and it’s foolish to to throw around the idea that the player is experiencing the developers game without first understanding that the developer is creating the experience for the player, and as such needs to meet the criteria of their intended player base (and playerbases tend to be reasonably diverse particularly with MMOs because there are so many combinations of playstyles that can overlap in so many different ways)

I understand completely that I am not the only player (I’m not even a current player at that), what you don’t seem to understand is that neither are you, sure there are heaps of people who enjoy the game as it is, but that’s no reason to stop trying to make it better, that’s no reason to stop trying to make particular aspects better for those that enjoy them. you seem hell bent on them not accepting any feedback that isn’t complete praise, as if the game can do no wrong because if anybody has an issue it must be the players fault, I hope for their sake that ANet is smarter than that and knows the value of feedback, especially negative feedback.

sorry, had to break it up, 5001+ apparently.

deriver.5381:

So, I hate leveling, but I love exploring dungeons… I hate GW because here, I’m forced to level, that means, playing an aspect of the game I really don’t like, just to be able to do what I like. kitten this game is horrible!

/sarcasm

So, in the ever changing world of the mmos, you believe that nothing could ever be made that can possibly hinder the playing experience somehow? Ever? Are you really that naive? I played almost every MMO out there since UO, back in 97. I can tell you that every single one of them have, in their past, made modifications that limited, somehow, the playing experience. So I guess you should start your own gaming company and be the one who will change the mmo industry for good, making a game where no limiting mechanic will ever be created. I wish you luck!

in that particular case (you know, the unrealistic one you created for the sole purpose of proving your stupid point, and yes I know you were being sarcastic, but lets for the moment assume that you weren’t) I would expect that anybody who enjoys exploration would find it easy to level seeing as how the level progression so heavily favors exploration, if it’s the dungeon aspect that is the real issue than you might have a half point, it’s true that after marketing the game as “play how you want” that you can’t just run dungeons as soon as you jump into the game, you have to level a little first, perhaps a similar issue to that with PvPers experience so often with games because they must PvE before they are able to compete in PvP on a more competitive (I.E. not getting stomped) level. probably not as large an issue because as stated someone with an interest in exploration or dungeons probably has other interests that can aid in that pursuit, and since some vertical progression is required in PvE on some level it’s unlikely that simply buffing players to the dungeons level would be particularly efficient (especially since vertical progression is key to a lot of dungeon runners), really I would say that a player solely into dungeon exploration would be suited to a different game, perhaps even a slight shift of genera if they wanted a truly good experience. of course your point still fails, the developers would still benefit from hearing their feedback that could potentially help them further their game.

“you believe that nothing could ever be made that can possibly hinder the playing experience somehow? Ever” I don’t know where you got that from unless you were stressing the can’t in the first sentence of that paragraph, in which case I should clarify that that is more of a subjective “Shouldn’t because it’s a horrible way to make a game and they know better”, but regardless I don’t think it’s a good idea to put ARBITRARY limitations on gameplay there was a key word in that sentence that you missed the first time around, and attempting to FORCE players to diversify their game play when there is no mechanical reason to do so beyond you thinking it’s better that way is practically the very definition.

of course specific to this topic it doesn’t matter because DR wasn’t introduced in an attempt to make players diversify on any level, that’s just the OP trying to make a bad argument to a semi valid point that someone made (I say semi valid point because while forced diversification is a possible side effect of DR it isn’t an intended one by ANet so pushing that point as bad design is silly in the case of GW2)

Gehenna.3625:

Zoridium JackL.7463:

firstly, the blame is squarely on Anets shoulders for claiming you can play how you want in the first place, a seasoned dev like them should know better than to promise things you already know you can’t possibly deliver, and a game that can be played any which way you want is simply not possible, too many different preferences and too many unreasonable nutters who will take the term too literally.

secondly, I do expect to go to a theme park and have 100 + goes on the rotating clowns, and on the 150th try I would expect that I have the same chance of winning the big prize as when I started, not to be told that now I can’t win anything not from the consolation box just because I’ve played too long.

thirdly, you don’t understand something very key to game development, you aren’t making the game for yourself, you are making it for your players (no this isn’t entitlement speaking, this is game design 101) and if they don’t enjoy it then nuts to you.

lastly, you can’t make a game and then put arbitrary limitations on the players because you want them to “play with all of it”, if someone only wants to play one aspect of the game, and you are forcing them to play parts they don’t enjoy just because you think it’s better than something is wrong with that designer. you don’t punish people for playing the content they enjoy. what a good game designer would do is add INCENTIVE to diversify game-play, give people a reason to try multiple aspects of the game WITHOUT punishing them for only playing one, it’s all well and good to get people to try new things, but it’s a whole new cake when you force them to play parts that they don’t enjoy when there are perfectly good parts they do (and it’s not as easy as “go play something else” sure that’s a solution for the player, but it doesn’t help the game get better, and I think ANet will agree with me that it’s always good to make your game better).

P.S. the last half I’m not just talking about DR, believe it or not they do it in other ways as well, and those other ways usually fly straight into the face of their design philosophies.

I agree that there is a problem on the marketing side of any company. Truth is they all do this. But aside from saying that you could play anyway you want, they also made it very clear this was not a grind game. And you can still grind, just not in the same place without DR hitting you, but switch areas and you can keep farming. What people are complaining about really is that they have to use their brain and that it takes a little longer, not the actual DR. If other areas gave the same rewards, hardly anyone would be complaining. It’s about grind efficiency (RPS), not that you cannot grind just that the people going 200 km/h now have to go at 180 km/h. They say it’s worse but it isn’t. That’s all exaggeration.

And every game has limits. It’s a programmed organism, not a living one and therefore has borders and patterns that need reprogramming to change. The problem isn’t that there are borders or limits but that they changed and a number of people are unwilling to adapt.

Yes, unwilling to go to other areas. Unwilling to accept that they need to take a little bit longer (not a lot longer, that’s their own fault for not getting that).

And no game can cater to every play style. You chose to focus on one sentence in the marketing campaing and ignored the rest. I put the blame on yourself for wanting this game to be something it isn’t.

Either way you will leave. Because of anger over DR or because of burning through content. You can’t cater to that group of players much cause they always leave in the first couple of months.

This helps the more long term player that stays cause he likes it for what it is and not hates it for what it isn’t.

you make valid points but I wasn’t talking about DR specifically, my points apply to it, but not it alone, I left a while ago not because of DR or running out of content, I just found the content I enjoy in games to be severely lacking in GW2.

and I didn’t focus on one sentence, the people that started this whole silly “I can’t play how I want” nonsense did, the play how you want argument applies to a point, but everyone seems intent on taking it to the extreme of either “you’re playing wrong and should go play a different game” or “I want this and GW2 isn’t this”, fact of the matter is that mid points exist, and some people have genuine complaints when the game prevents them from playing how they enjoy and some people have a genuine point when they say it’s just not the way this particular game is designed, the hard part for a lot of people it seems is differentiating between when a point is valid and when a point is unreasonable.

noremorze.1745:

Zoridium JackL.7463:

lastly, you can’t make a game and then put arbitrary limitations on the players because you want them to “play with all of it”, if someone only wants to play one aspect of the game, and you are forcing them to play parts they don’t enjoy just because you think it’s better than something is wrong with that designer. you don’t punish people for playing the content they enjoy. what a good game designer would do is add INCENTIVE to diversify game-play, give people a reason to try multiple aspects of the game WITHOUT punishing them for only playing one, it’s all well and good to get people to try new things, but it’s a whole new cake when you force them to play parts that they don’t enjoy when there are perfectly good parts they do (and it’s not as easy as “go play something else” sure that’s a solution for the player, but it doesn’t help the game get better, and I think ANet will agree with me that it’s always good to make your game better).

Do you also complain if a game like lets say tetris doesn’t have any crafting and you can’t play the game like you want? I know, stupid example right? However, it’s not that different from this game nor any game for that matter.

see my above post, complaining that tetris doesn’t have crafting is an unreasonable point when discussion tetris (although tetris with a crafting system of some kind could make for a very good game :]), while complaining that GW2 prevents players from doing the activities they enjoy in the game already without grinding the stuff they don’’t enjoy is a pretty valid point (although again as stated above it’s only really semi-valid when it comes to DR)

If you want to grind for hours in the same exact place then no, it’s not ok as it’s borderline bot behavior.

Simply move to different farming zones; I myself have a dozen of them, cycle them all and never hit DR.

Red Falcon.8257:

If you want to grind for hours in the same exact place then no, it’s not ok as it’s borderline bot behavior.

the definition of bot hasn’t changed recently has it? I thought it had something to do with automated thingamajigs, not player doing things repeatedly in the same place…

Zoridium JackL.7463:

“you believe that nothing could ever be made that can possibly hinder the playing experience somehow? Ever” I don’t know where you got that from unless you were stressing the can’t in the first sentence of that paragraph, in which case I should clarify that that is more of a subjective “Shouldn’t because it’s a horrible way to make a game and they know better”, but regardless I don’t think it’s a good idea to put ARBITRARY limitations on gameplay there was a key word in that sentence that you missed the first time around, and attempting to FORCE players to diversify their game play when there is no mechanical reason to do so beyond you thinking it’s better that way is practically the very definition.

You realize that the whole game is composed of arbitrary limitations and mechanics, right? There isn’t a single part of it that not follows this rule.

That being said, I can discuss about better ways to make arbitrary limitations, like the DR, for the purpose it was made. I’m not going to enter the merit of it being or not being successful. It’s a controversial topic that has nothing to do with the OP.

But please, for the love of God, drop the “I want to play however I want” mantra. This is just making you people look bad. This will never be the case, period.

deriver.5381:

Zoridium JackL.7463:

“you believe that nothing could ever be made that can possibly hinder the playing experience somehow? Ever” I don’t know where you got that from unless you were stressing the can’t in the first sentence of that paragraph, in which case I should clarify that that is more of a subjective “Shouldn’t because it’s a horrible way to make a game and they know better”, but regardless I don’t think it’s a good idea to put ARBITRARY limitations on gameplay there was a key word in that sentence that you missed the first time around, and attempting to FORCE players to diversify their game play when there is no mechanical reason to do so beyond you thinking it’s better that way is practically the very definition.

You realize that the whole game is composed of arbitrary limitations and mechanics, right? There isn’t a single part of it that not follows this rule.

That being said, I can discuss about better ways to make arbitrary limitations, like the DR, for the purpose it was made. I’m not going to enter the merit of it being or not being successful. It’s a controversial topic that has nothing to do with the OP.

But please, for the love of God, drop the “I want to play however I want” mantra. This is just making you people look bad. This will never be the case, period.

“you people”? who you calling “you people”?

I think you completely misunderstand my purpose here, I’m not saying they should make the game something it’s not just to appease the people who don;t like it, I’m not sitting in a circle with my peers chanting “how i want, how i want, how i want” over and over, and I know it will never be the case, see my first post in this thread and i say exactly that, it’s one of the first things I say at that.

and now you are guilty of doing exactly what you said I was doing, you are taking my words and being over literal with it, when I say arbitrary imitation I mean within the context of the game, there is a difference between a mechanic that serves a purpose to further gameplay and a mechanic that imposes a limitation on gameplay for the sake of imposing a developers personal will on people that may disagree (again, not something I’m saying ANet are doing, just a distinction that I think people (in particular you) need to understand)

Zoridium JackL.7463:

you make valid points but I wasn’t talking about DR specifically, my points apply to it, but not it alone, I left a while ago not because of DR or running out of content, I just found the content I enjoy in games to be severely lacking in GW2.

This is about as fair a comment as I can think of in this thread or many others. And I think this is the reason for a lot of debate in these forums.

There is a certain type of content you enjoy…and you are right, it is lacking in this game. On the other hand, that is exactly the reason why I like this game because I really got fed up quickly with the type of content many other MMOs have to offer.

And here it is. GW2 is really unlike other MMOs. When you enjoy the more traditional content this really isn’t the game for you or anyone who likes that type of content.

Therefore it’s not a realistic expectation to think that someone could convince Anet to do otherwise. The whole point of this game was to offer a different experience because a lot of people got sick of the type of content that was being offered.

Also, after WoW every game like that has failed to make a real dent in the market. WoW is still the biggest and any other MMO has been reduced to a few select servers with the more staunch fans remaining. That’s it.

I think Anet were right to think people wanted an alternative. And that’s what GW2 is…a real alternative.

The fact that you are bored with this game because it doesn’t offer what you like is a correct and logical situation because you like content that this game wasn’t build for.

Most of the complainers in this forum, not all but most, would fit this category….they just haven’t been able to admit that and still think they can convince Anet to completely rebuild this game after release or convince enough people to hate it like they do so they hope to crash this game to make up for their petty emotional states.

I like GW2 but I also see the bugs and some needed improvements, but I think more along the lines of improving the game and not changing it in a completely different direction. Orr is really boring and tough. Another reason to not grind there in my view. It lacks diversity (just risen everywhere) and the mobs respawn to quickly, too many contested waypoints, not enough waypoints. Broken events etc. I see it. But that doesn’t bother me so much because they will look at endgame when a lot more people get to max level, which at the moment most players are not.

I like doing low level events. Fun and easy and still get 250 karma each time. I don’t need a legendary weapon today. It can come next week or next month for all I care. I have full exotic gear and can do any content, anywhere. That’s good enough for me and the reason I enjoy this game.

Just a different playstyle and different things that I get out of it. And it fits with what this game offers. Simple as that.

Red Falcon.8257:

If you want to grind for hours in the same exact place then no, it’s not ok as it’s borderline bot behavior.

Simply move to different farming zones; I myself have a dozen of them, cycle them all and never hit DR.

Clearly you have not tried getting materials from the Orr region then.