Guild Wars 2

The gaming world really needs to work out some sort of etiquette guide^^

I’d say on international megaservers, as on overflows, any kind of language is acceptable, though when I notice most people are speaking English or French instead of German, I switch to that (okay, my French usually consist of fifth-grade-grammar and horrible spelling, but I try, so don’t judge too harshly, k?), simply for convenience.
I make one exception, and that’s events like the wurm on Bloodtide Coast or Tequatl, if they happen on overflows. It’s much easier to coordinate these events in one language, and that happens to be English most of the time. Doesn’t mean I don’t have the urge to slap anyone spamming the chat with “write english morons!!!!!!”…

In PUGs, it’s a matter of majority and/or picking a language everyone at least understands, if communication is required. There were runs where I was the only German in a group of French people, so I resorted to silence and the occasional monosyllabic acknowledgement of something. Worked just fine. Most of the time, the language we all have in common is English, so that’s become my default, if I don’t see solely German servers in my group.

It all comes down to being a bit more open-minded and not rude to people who don’t automatically pick the “right” language for a server or group, if there even is one. Politely telling someone the “main” language is X when they type in Y instead of immediately throwing around insults can go a long way

This is precisely why I rolled on the US side. I’d rather deal with the huge timezone difference than the folk who can’t be bothered to learn English even on a basic level despite the fact that it’s the most widely spoken language worldwide and so the best one to use when communicating it with others who are not familiar with one’s mother tongue.

If it’s possible to transfer between the two server regions then I advise all who wish to play in an English speaking environment to purchase some gems and get off of the EU side.

anzenketh.3759:

I would however argue that English is not the most easy to learn. It is actually one of the most complex languages to speak and write properly.

Ever tried learning one of the Uralic languages? Pure nightmare. English is a walk in the park compared to those or even to Slavic languages. Heck, I’d take English over whatever Cthulhu language Scandinavians are using.

Actually, English is not so vastly different from most Scandinavian languages, and Finnish isn’t a Scandinavian language proper. Even so, the Cthulhu thing is only partially true; once you figure out what to do, Finnish actually the most logical language I’ve ever seen

Fror.2163:

Now people are trying to settle this issue by forcing people into their language of preference (usually English) as middle-ground. This is bad. People are still comfy in their chair and you are forcing them to make efforts they didn’t have to do and they now don’t want to do. So you should think about those people: why shouldn’t the other people speak their language? Oh, but everybody is making an effort to speak English, isn’t that some middle ground? No, not everybody is making an effort to speak English: Brits are the first amongst those, so they come back to their first question: why should they make any effort as well?

The main thing with the megaserver here isn’t that there is some discussion about what language to use, but rather that such a choice has to be made. ArenaNet is removing something granted for more than 1.5 years.

+100000 You’re my hero

I’m happy with all the comments I see. On another topic (here), people told me “they have to learn english, end of the story”. I’m glad some players here disagree

As for learning English at school :

You’ve learned Mathematics for years at school. Does it mean you feel comfortable with a Banach space ? Not necessarily
You’ve learned Physics for years at school. Does it mean you feel comfortable with Continuum mechanics ? Not necessarily
You’ve learned English for years at school. Does it mean you can speak English fluently or even a basic English without much effort ? Not necessarily

Btw, there is a similar topic on the french forum.
https://forum-fr.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/game/Megaserveur-et-de-ses-cons-quences-sujets-fusionn-s/page/2#post205202

We got an answer from our CM :

Stephane Lo Presti

We are listenning to your feedbacks, and we already are working on some ideas to improve the situation for french players ( german and spanish players as well). We cannot say if or when these changes will be implemented but we are aware of the problem.

Red Queen.7915:

Actually, English is not so vastly different from most Scandinavian languages, and Finnish isn’t a Scandinavian language proper. Even so, the Cthulhu thing is only partially true; once you figure out what to do, Finnish actually the most logical language I’ve ever seen

I know Finnish isn’t a Scandinavian language. It’s an Uralic one. So it’s not Cthulhu speak, it’s in fact a glorious thing! Bloody difficult just like my mother tongue but glorious. One day I’ll learn Finnish properly. Just wish I didn’t have so much to do. Perkele.

English has a lot in common with the Scandinavian languages, yes. Even so, English is generally considered to be easier to learn. Most likely because it’s easier to get into. Learn some common words and throw them after each other in a subject → verb → object order. That’s it. Even if you know nothing else, this is enough to communicate on a basic level.

I don’t see any of y’all speaking Southern when I’m on. So please type slower.

/disappoint.

I live in the USA. I speak 3 languages fluently, and I can muddle through 2 or 3 more if I had to.

My opinion in this matter is mixed. While I don’t want anyone to feel that they can’t speak their native language, we do play on the NA side of the game. One should expect the primary language in NA to be English.

Spamming map chat with other languages constantly only serves to ignite tensions between nationalities. Asking someone to help in (insert language here) should NEVER be met with hatred and choruses of “Learn ENGLISH or GTFO!”

It would be no different if I were to go to a specifically German (example) server and ask for some help in English. I shouldn’t expect the entire server to switch to English just because I can’t speak German. I should be the one to make an effort.

Funny thing is that even English speakers have issues understanding each other sometimes. My native language is Southern US English. I say things that British English speakers don’t understand. Rather than expect them to learn my colloquialisms and inflections, I try to speak “proper” English in order to be understood. It doesn’t mean I won’t come out with something totally Southern, but I am not going to deliberately use phrases that I know will be met with choruses of “huh?”

Until Anet comes up with something to help out, I would suggest we all be a bit more tolerant.

@KarateKid: That dog won’t hunt, son… Nice try, tho… Jeet yet? Have some poke and sweet tea….

anzenketh.3759:

I would however argue that English is not the most easy to learn. It is actually one of the most complex languages to speak and write properly.

Ermm.. no. English is one of the easiest languages to learn. French conjugations are pure horror, German grammar at least weird if not an effrontery, Finnish has 15(!) grammatical cases, Chinese a very simpel grammar but is a pita to understand or speak (tonal language), etc. perge, perge..
But, well, it is also of course a matter of will and personal penchant.

Well it seems like this is going to be solved now with the new chat option. Thanks for that Anet

Ashabhi.1365:

While I don’t want anyone to feel that they can’t speak their native language, we do play on the NA side of the game. One should expect the primary language in NA to be English.

NA means “North America”, not “United States of America”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_in_North_America

At the very least spanish and french should have official NA servers, otherwise people should shut up when they see spanish and french being spoken, as it they are official languages in the north american continent.

Why should English be the default language? It is not even the most spoken language in the world.

Name.9625:

Well it seems like this is going to be solved now with the new chat option. Thanks for that Anet

nothing is solved … it’s only a compromise solution until a final fix

for example, if i activate the filter i can’t read most information at EotM or at sPvP Solo-Arena because these are in most cases in English

also there are other problems that have nothing to do with the language

ANGELofPAIN.4809:

Name.9625:

Well it seems like this is going to be solved now with the new chat option. Thanks for that Anet

nothing is solved … it’s only a compromise solution until a final fix

for example, if i activate the filter i can’t read most information at EotM or at sPvP Solo-Arena because these are in most cases in English

also there are other problems that have nothing to do with the language

That “solution” by ANet is bullkitten. You name a few problems, it should never have been activated by default, what happens to people who play with another client language, etc.

I guess half of my german fellows will not be able to read me now because I play with an english client (the localization is just … horrible). That’s just … brilliant.

Slowpoke.2749:

English has a lot in common with the Scandinavian languages, yes. Even so, English is generally considered to be easier to learn. Most likely because it’s easier to get into.

I’m sorry, but I really don’t think that’s true.
People have this conception of english in Europe because it’s the default second language for a lot of people, and most people under the age of 40 have grown up with massive impact from American culture.
But english is not a simple language, it’s a clusterkitten of various cultural influences, such as French, German and various nordic languages. English grammar is a mess, boasting an absurd amount of exceptions to general rules.
As an example, German grammar has a reputation for being incredibly complex and hard to master, but it is guided by much more defined rules with fewer exceptions than English and is much more logical when you have the base concepts down.
English is a language that’s very difficult to learn just by reading – you have to speak it with a native in order to learn just how kittened up and unbound by rules it is.
But because a lot of people have heard/spoken english since childhood, they don’t realize this.
Take an adult from any Asian country that has little contact with english-speaking cultures and I promise they will have trouble learning English. Because it’s not simple or easy to get into at all.

calavel.6249:

Slowpoke.2749:

English has a lot in common with the Scandinavian languages, yes. Even so, English is generally considered to be easier to learn. Most likely because it’s easier to get into.

I’m sorry, but I really don’t think that’s true.
People have this conception of english in Europe because it’s the default second language for a lot of people, and most people under the age of 40 have grown up with massive impact from American culture.
But english is not a simple language, it’s a clusterkitten of various cultural influences, such as French, German and various nordic languages. English grammar is a mess, boasting an absurd amount of exceptions to general rules.
As an example, German grammar has a reputation for being incredibly complex and hard to master, but it is guided by much more defined rules with fewer exceptions than English and is much more logical when you have the base concepts down.
English is a language that’s very difficult to learn just by reading – you have to speak it with a native in order to learn just how kittened up and unbound by rules it is.
But because a lot of people have heard/spoken english since childhood, they don’t realize this.
Take an adult from any Asian country that has little contact with english-speaking cultures and I promise they will have trouble learning English. Because it’s not simple or easy to get into at all.

Reading comprehension is a good thing. Practice it. As I already wrote, it’s easier to learn the basics of English. I’m a linguist. I speak several languages. English is easier to get into than most European languages. Period. The lack of inflections and gendered nouns in themselves are enough to make the first steps a smooth sailing because you don’t start your journey with a trilogy of grammar rules dropped on your head which you have to know by heart before being able to procceed.

What causes the most problems in the beginnng is pronounciation. Learning the alphabet doesn’t teach you how to pronounce the letters when they’re not standing on their own. The letter “G” will sound one way in “magic” or “genetics” but another way in “gazelle” or “gas” for example.

I wasn’t taught English for quite a while, my parent’s generation had very little opportunity to learn English with public education of the time heavily pushing German and Russian, my grandmother’s generation could only study Russian. English and western culture in general was blocked under the communist regime for a long time around here.

Switching from German or Russian to English proved to be easier for the people than brushing up their existing language skills even though our native tongue shares a lot more similarities with those two than English. Starting out with English was easy as well.

I usually advise people who wish to learn more than one additional language or wish to have their child learn more than one additional language to start out with anything BUT English and then move on to English. Switching from, for example, a Slavic or Romance language to English is far less difficult than the other way around.

English gets difficult later on with the nonsensical amount of tenses and the grammatical rules which have more exceptions to them than not but on a basic level it’s really quite easy, especially in written form.

PS.: I mastered English through reading.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Why should English be the default language? It is not even the most spoken language in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_language

Personally I like diversity and a potential opportunity to showcase the one or two totally unrelated words/phrases that I might know.

The whole scenario is not new and there will always be people either not comfortable or just on principle saying that the “official” server language is the one that “must” be used in open chat.

As far as courtesy is concerned I’m of the opinion that it goes both ways.

Theres nothing rude or impolite in speaking your own language, why?

Well it is pretty simple: anet has given us the opportunity to chose where we want to play and in which langauge we want to play.
Now they take that away from us by adding a system that mixes EVERYONE together, they take away your choice so to say.

Even if they restrict it to langauges like all germans on a german megaserver it is still a bad move by them, because actually i don’t want to be forced to play with Elona, Riverside etc..
We have build up a rivality to those servers and yes, we are friends with some of them but we are altough enemys. So Anet is forcing us to kick out our lolaylity towards our server and puts us in a pool of all servers even with our competetors.
Am i supposed to organize a WvW Event for Kodash by saying “Kodash Morning Raid on Map XY” while the players of server XY are on the same map!?

Well thats for that, but now back to the language part.
Iam fluend in english, i can read it, i can understand, i have the basic abillitys to write and speak in english (even though my grammer is pretty bad) but do i want to be forced to speak english? Hell no!
I have chosen a german server to play and speak with german players, when iam in the mood for english i guest on SFR, but i want to chose!
It’s like going into a pub where the owner says “hello, here have a drink with these fellows from france, they are very nice people” and when i answer him “actually i wanted to sit over there with my friends” he says “i dont care, drink”. Thats basiclly what anet is doing right now, forcing people to play with other people with whome they dont wanna play or which they just dont understand.

Unfortunately there is a pretty high amount of germans who are not fluent in english and therefore play the german localized version.

Just add chat channels for multiple languages. Why is it so hard? Enable them all by default in the map chat tab and allow people to uncheck them, or move them to another tab in the same way the current channel system works.

At this rate we are going to see alot of language specific guilds pop up just so people know who to talk to who can also hear them in guild chat.

You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to know that will be bad for WvW.