Guild Wars 2

Ayrilana.1396:

So basically the people saying berserker is lazy are the ones who have likely never played it?

I have multiple characters decked out in Berserker gear AND with a glass trait setup. While it can be difficult in certain cases, and therefor can’t be described as “lazy” in all instances, there are just as many cases where it is just that. Rather… it is to those of us that perceive it that way.

Do I wish Berserker setups to be nerfed? No.
Surprised?

I feel the real problem is that there isn’t enough risk in being a glass cannon in this game. Challenge? Yes, in many cases. But not all. Active defenses can be used just as strongly on a zerker as a non-zerker character. Risk? Where is the risk? Glass should shatter and break if used by the unskilled or unwary. Yet we have none of that. The only thing that we risk in this game when we run berserker and fail is taking seconds or minutes longer at certain content. Which means next to nothing.

So for me personally it is not about the gear. Its about a lack of adequate risk vs. reward. Enemy AI is horrible. Consequences for dying almost non-existent. Poor game design where time spent farming for X amount of gold is more important than great, immersive gameplay.

Mapisto.2154:

Do you see what they did there? this is a role playing game and you have one role for pve.

YOU play 1 role.
I play at least 3.

Non-berserker builds actually are more rewarding. Not once in over two years have I joined a dungeon group in which berserkers didn’t get themselves killed somehow.

There were even times when I had to go get my cleric to keep everyone alive because they were too busy dealing damage to keep themselves alive. It’s kind of funny, actually. People play berserker to deal more damage, but you don’t deal any damage when you’re dead, do you?

I don’t think you should get more loot or anything for not playing berseker — that would be absurd. And besides, constantly reviving your “epic zerk meta” companions is already a lot of experience points.

One or two berserkers in my group maximum has proven to be a lot more enjoyable, and completely wipe-free!

Jana.6831:

Mapisto.2154:

Do you see what they did there? this is a role playing game and you have one role for pve.

Then defend your world from other worlds and go wvw – this is your role as well, as a good citizen..

Instead of suggesting me to go and do something else, suggest them to change the game.

Another one?
Did the last one even make it off the front page yet?

for the love of tyria,
Can we please Sticky one of these threads so we don’t get 3 new ones per week?

Rangelost.4857:

Non-berserker builds actually are more rewarding. Not once in over two years have I joined a dungeon group in which berserkers didn’t get themselves killed somehow.

There were even times when I had to go get my cleric to keep everyone alive because they were too busy dealing damage to keep themselves alive. It’s kind of funny, actually. People play berserker to deal more damage, but you don’t deal any damage when you’re dead, do you?

I don’t think you should get more loot or anything for not playing berseker — that would be absurd. And besides, constantly reviving your “epic zerk meta” companions is already a lot of experience points.

One or two berserkers in my group maximum has proven to be a lot more enjoyable, and completely wipe-free!

First off why are there so many of these zerk qq threads…srsly

This is exactly why zerker builds should not be nerfed or hated against. People in general suck at playing with berserker because they cant dodge and they dont know whats going on in fights. Its also why it makes for the most fun build in the game because you get to see high numbers and its also a challenge to stay alive.

I also dont see why people claim that only berserker builds are accepted in dungeons. I pug alot and i rarely see full zerker or even half zerker groups. Everyones in clerics not dodging and slowly killing the spider queen through pvt boredom

Mapisto.2154:

Instead of suggesting me to go and do something else, suggest them to change the game.

Why should Anet change their game because you want to play something different?
You can easily go play something different.

Haishao.6851:

Mapisto.2154:

Instead of suggesting me to go and do something else, suggest them to change the game.

Why should Anet change their game because you want to play something different?
You can easily go play something different.

Because it is their interest to make the game better and more fun for players. And they do it all the time actually. They need to be open for suggestions from the players.

All i hear is ‘I wanna grind in this non grinding game so stop complaining’.

People in zerker builds don’t want the other builds to be viable because they’ve invested all their time and gold onto a zerker meta. They’ve got all ascended zerker gear and they’ve got their gold grinds pat down.

They don’t want different content. They want quick content they can gimmick into their gold payout quick and efficiently.

This is what you get when you introduce huge gold grinds as the main method for aesthetic progression in the game. People stop caring about playing the game and just want to get the gold grind for their legendaries done as quick as possible, or get those fractals done asap as well so that they can go farm as much gold as they can get for the day, so that they can buy the next incredibly expensive rare skin they want.

Zenith.7301:

People in zerker builds don’t want the other builds to be viable because they’ve invested all their time and gold onto a zerker meta. They’ve got all ascended zerker gear and they’ve got their gold grinds pat down.

That really isn’t true. People want challenging content, but they also don’t want the holy trinity in GW2 because the game was advertised to not have it. I swear, it’s like you didn’t even bother to read the thread and immediately jumped on to hate on people using zerker stats.

Zenith.7301:

People in zerker builds don’t want the other builds to be viable because they’ve invested all their time and gold onto a zerker meta. They’ve got all ascended zerker gear and they’ve got their gold grinds pat down.

They don’t want different content. They want quick content they can gimmick into their gold payout quick and efficiently.

This is what you get when you introduce huge gold grinds as the main method for aesthetic progression in the game. People stop caring about playing the game and just want to get the gold grind for their legendaries done as quick as possible, or get those fractals done asap as well so that they can go farm as much gold as they can get for the day, so that they can buy the next incredibly expensive rare skin they want.

Great comment!
but making other stats more valuable does not make the zerk gear less valuable in my oppinion.

Zenith.7301:

People in zerker builds don’t want the other builds to be viable because they’ve invested all their time and gold onto a zerker meta. They’ve got all ascended zerker gear and they’ve got their gold grinds pat down.

They don’t want different content. They want quick content they can gimmick into their gold payout quick and efficiently.

This is what you get when you introduce huge gold grinds as the main method for aesthetic progression in the game. People stop caring about playing the game and just want to get the gold grind for their legendaries done as quick as possible, or get those fractals done asap as well so that they can go farm as much gold as they can get for the day, so that they can buy the next incredibly expensive rare skin they want.

I agree somewhat with the last paragraph that people focus on how to get stuff fastest. But isnt that human nature.

Zerker isnt a gimmick, no one really gimmicks content. The people who promote this zerker meta (who also have other builds fyi, many use phalanx warrior and they create interesting condi damage builds like warrior) do most content without any bugs or exploits. Finishing content faster than expected isnt a gimmick its skill and I dont see why thats so bad.

Additionally sure people are invested in zerker gear but everyone knows ascended isnt exactly that much different from exotic. Changing stats costs what, 50g max maybe. If you’re a zerker elite who grinds dungeons all day that shouldnt be a problem right? There is also some diversity even in hardcore players. Guardians will use some soldier armor or other sets for higher level fractals, elementalist switch between runes of scholar and i think its strength? altho thats been nerfed, and mesmers role with assassins with ranger runes. Its not all zerk and even if it were theres nothing wrong with that. It takes more skill to finish content in zerk gear than it does in clerics and thats why people like it

Lazaar.9123:

Zenith.7301:

People in zerker builds don’t want the other builds to be viable because they’ve invested all their time and gold onto a zerker meta. They’ve got all ascended zerker gear and they’ve got their gold grinds pat down.

That really isn’t true. People want challenging content, but they also don’t want the holy trinity in GW2 because the game was advertised to not have it. I swear, it’s like you didn’t even bother to read the thread and immediately jumped on to hate on people using zerker stats.

Except I use zerker stats. On every one of my toons. And I’m sick of the kittenty PvE exploits. Nobody does it for the challenge. They do it for the gold.

How can a 3-4 minute fight translate into a “challenge” is beyond me. All you need to know is where to ball in as a group, and robotically evade the tell.

No real cleansing mechanisms, no party splitting to do real encounter objectives. Just zerg the living crap out of every boss in this game.

So, no, I’ve read your kittenty excuses, I just don’t accept them as a valid argument for making all the other stat combinations and playstyle options worthless for any serious content approach.

Zenith.7301:

Except I use zerker stats. On every one of my toons. And I’m sick of the kittenty PvE exploits. Nobody does it for the challenge. They do it for the gold.

How can a 3-4 minute fight translate into a “challenge” is beyond me. All you need to know is where to ball in as a group, and robotically evade the tell.

No real cleansing mechanisms, no party splitting to do real encounter objectives. Just zerg the living crap out of every boss in this game.

So, no, I’ve read your kittenty excuses, I just don’t accept them as a valid argument for making all the other stat combinations and playstyle options worthless for any serious content approach.

Funny, considering anything outside of dungeon speed runs can be done by any build. You can’t even crit the ‘bosses that are zerged the living crap out of’. And yes, people using exploits is a problem, but ArenaNet already does action against them if they see it. But that has no relevance to zerker stats.

Funny, I have no problem running dungeons and fractals with my beeftank guardian of a salad. In fact, the only times I’ve died in either of those recently (that I can recall, it’s 5am right now) is in CoF when you’re killing the acolytes (those hellstorms are kittenING EVIL) and forgetting just how bad of an idea it is to rez someone during the cannon phase of mai trin (or in general, when mai trin chases you harder than a horny teenager).

Before this thread transforms once again into a kitten storm, perhaps we all should wait for the new expansion.

First of all, it will be a new content and that means safer play with defensive gear will be much less risky, possibly even faster without wipes.

Secondly, we shouldn’t expect any new dungeons and everyone will just start doing those open world activities (because it’s new, in contrast to the stale old content) where it doesn’t matter what you wear.

Thirdly, we will see what the guy from the AI company brought to the table which actually might shake a thing or two.

Since this game has no traditional roles (tank, healer, dps etc.), why would anyone use something else than zerker for pve? Pve is so easy that you don’t need anything else. If you suck in zerker gear, you suck in every gear. Pvp/WvW is a different story.

I didn’t read every post… but I assume it went something like this so far:

OP: I can’t play well so I die in zerker gear, please make players who are bad get more rewards then good players!

Other posters: That doesn’t make any sense, zerker gear is the most rewarding because it is the highest risk and requires the most skill to pull off.

OP/others: That’s stupid, nerf zerker or i’ll quit!

That about sum it up so far?

Mapisto.2154:

The most common stats for armor and weapons is berserker’s, and I can see why,
you kill foes really fast, and basically it is the laziest way do deal a huge amount of damage.

I’m pretty sure this is not true – I doubt the majority of players use full berserker’s for their characters.

Mapisto.2154:

Personally I think its ruining all the fun you can have with your class.
Most of the time you use the same skills over and over again, or just put a bunch of signets and spam the most damaging weapon skill you have.

This part right here proves you don’t really understand the “zerker meta”.
You have to do much more than that – using well timed dodges, active defense skills and proper positioning is also a crucial necessity if you plan on also staying alive.

Also – a zerker players is an efficient player – most often than not they’ll be going through a dps rotation that involves more than just “using the most powerful attack on your most powerful weapon”.

Mapisto.2154:

So I decided to try more builds other then berserker, and the truth is: it is not as good as the berserker build.
They are more fun to play – but not as good.

Of course it is not as good in terms of damage and clear time – there’s a trade-off – and that trade-off is that these other builds are easier to play and will have a lower risk rate.
The rewards will of course be lesser since you are taking a smaller risk.

Also – fun is subjective. I find these types of builds incredibly dull and boring.

Mapisto.2154:

And if you put the right traits, zerk doesn’t die that quickly.

A zerk build by definition takes traits that give more damage so your hypothesis is flawed.
“the right traits” for a zerk build are not the traits that keep it alive. They’re traits that give it more damage.
If your traits are not aimed at maximum damage then you are not playing a meta zerker build.

Mapisto.2154:

If you are not a zerk, you aren’t welcome in dungeon groups because your’e not good/fast enough.

This is wrong.

The right statement is this :

If you are not zerk it means you :

1)Either don’t like playing zerker.
2)Aren’t skilled enough to be playing zerker.

In both situations you are not going to be accepted into zerker parties because zerker players usually play with people of their own skill level and with the same goals and mentality.

You can still join non-zerker parties just fine.

Mapisto.2154:

When was the last time you saw a player wearing a rampager armor? sinister? shaman?

How do you know what armor people are wearing? How do you know they’re “all zerker” and not something else?

Do you have any statistical data or are you just throwing personal experience at us?

And no – I don’t agree with you.

Mapisto.2154:

I think you guys miss my point. I was a zerk untill now and found it too easy and boring.
But other playstyles are not as good as zerks, and i think condies should be more effective in pve.
There is a reason why most of LFG descriptions ask for “lvl 80 war ele zerk only”.
zerk groups can beat anything in seconds. there is no reason whatsoever to try another build. there is no role for a condi or a healer in those groups.
So i think the non zerk builds should be more “needed” in pve.

Good zerk players can beat anything in seconds.
Bad zerk players get wiped.
Bad players in general don’t even wear zerk’s.

Why is it wrong that highly skilled players perform well in the game? How is that a problem?
There are no roles for condi or healers because:

1)Conditions in this game are broken because of the condition cap – not because of zerker.

2)This game was designed around the idea of not having a healer so then how do you expect people would want a healer in their party when the game is designed in a way that you do not need one.

You are trying to create an artificial need for what you like to play.
You’re basically saying :

“Change the game in such a way that my way of playing becomes required and all parties must want and have me because they will need to have me given the game changes”.

Mapisto.2154:

And if you dont wanna talk about healers, then what about a mere supportive spec? there is no need for that either. Why arenanet chose to give armor stats like healing power and vitality if no one uses them?

They do use them.

1)PHIW players use them wherever and whenever they want.
2)They have roles in WvW and sPVP.

Also role playing does not mean what you think it means.

It’s not related to your roles in combat – it has more to do with assuming the role of a virtual persona which becomes your avatar in a virtual world.

Mapisto.2154:

Jana.6831:

Mapisto.2154:

Do you see what they did there? this is a role playing game and you have one role for pve.

Then defend your world from other worlds and go wvw – this is your role as well, as a good citizen..

Instead of suggesting me to go and do something else, suggest them to change the game.

I’d rather back Jana’s original suggestion than yours.

Why would we change the game for everyone just because you don’t like it?

I’m surprised to see one of these threads pop up so soon after the expansion announcement. Always thought these were a product of boredom, and there’s so much more interesting stuff to discuss.

Mapisto.2154:

Hi everyone.
I feel like non-berserker builds should be more rewarding, in PVE especially.

The most common stats for armor and weapons is berserker’s, and I can see why,
you kill foes really fast, and basically it is the laziest way do deal a huge amount of damage.

Personally I think its ruining all the fun you can have with your class.
Most of the time you use the same skills over and over again, or just put a bunch of signets and spam the most damaging weapon skill you have.
So I decided to try more builds other then berserker, and the truth is: it is not as good as the berserker build.
They are more fun to play – but not as good.
Iv’e tried it on three different classes:
Thief (which has REALLY FUN skills that NO ONE USES because they are not proper berserker skills.),
Mesmer and Warrior.

It all comes to this: conditions are not that good in PVE and the fastest way to kill a monster is with a good critical damage.
And if you put the right traits, zerk doesn’t die that quickly.
If you are not a zerk, you aren’t welcome in dungeon groups because your’e not good/fast enough.
When was the last time you saw a player wearing a rampager armor? sinister? shaman?

Im not saying “nerf zerks”.
I think condition damage should play a greater role in PVE.
Healing power and vitality are not that important to survive.
Non-zerk builds not rewarding enough.

Hope you guys agree with me.

The problem is that the content are too easy to require any gear. Too hard to icebow #5 and kill a hp sponge that wont event have time to fight back because it dies before deep freeze is over.

A good way to start making dungeons harder is bosses start with a few stacks of defience preventing opening with bow #5. That would be an easy fix and wont affect pvp/wvw balance.

tigirius.9014:

I agree with everything you said save one. Nerfing zerker is the only way to fix it really.

If they are going to work on the philosophy they’ve had this whole time where they want to eliminate what they would consider an unfair advantage (which is what basically happened to first heal scaling, then crowd control, then conditions, and finally reflects) then they need to follow through on what they started and nerf the effectiveness of zerker vs bosses and champs. Bosses and champs if everything were truly equal in this game in PVE would have a debuff that prevented crits from occurring when crits have hit just like the CC debuff works. It would diminish the effectiveness of Zerker above all else and it would force the community to become a more diverse group.

On top of this change, they need to fix condition damage stacking because that’s the key problem with conditions beyond the nerfs it’s suffered as a mechanic, conditions also have the added problem of being designed poorly.

Anyone who disagrees doesn’t believe in fairness.

I predict a “Non-soldier builds should be more rewarding” thread in the future)

nerfing berserker won’t do anything but cause a massive outcry in the community. What needs to happen is an overhaul of PvE to counter pure-dps tactics.

rapthorne.7345:

nerfing berserker won’t do anything but cause a massive outcry in the community. What needs to happen is an overhaul of PvE to counter pure-dps tactics.

No, what needs to happen is that people realize that this game isn’t pve alone. And I think there’s no other way to construct pve like it is at the moment as everything else would lead to some kind of trinity. And I personally don’t like to carry around a second gear, so I’m not so sure I would like bosses that can only be hit with conditions.

how pve works int this game

people will always use the highest damage stats

Harper.4173:

Good zerk players can beat anything in seconds.
Bad zerk players get wiped.
Bad players in general don’t even wear zerk’s.

Why is it wrong that highly skilled players perform well in the game? How is that a problem?

The problem is that “highly skilled players” shouldn’t be restricted to use a single stat composition to be effective. What’s the point of having a lot of stats and stat combinations if people aren’t really supposed to use them once they’re good enough?

Harper.4173:

There are no roles for condi or healers because:

1)Conditions in this game are broken because of the condition cap – not because of zerker.

And here i agree – conditions are quite broken, and until they find a way to fix them, there isn’t much to do about that…

Harper.4173:

2)This game was designed around the idea of not having a healer so then how do you expect people would want a healer in their party when the game is designed in a way that you do not need one.

…but here i cannot agree. If healing power is supposed to be useless by design, what’s the point of it existing in the first place? What’s the point of it being on equal terms with other stats on gear and such, if it is supposed to be less effective than other stats?
What’s the point of having gears with it if they’re supposed to be intrinsecally inferior, just by having said stat instead of something more useful?
It is like they created such stats and their combinations just as padding content, seeing as there is no real need to use them.

Harper.4173:

You are trying to create an artificial need for what you like to play.
You’re basically saying :

“Change the game in such a way that my way of playing becomes required and all parties must want and have me because they will need to have me given the game changes”.

More like, change the game so that there is some reason to use half of those stats, else there is no point of even having them in the first place, unlike berserker’s ones.
And if there is no point of having them, they shouldn’t have put them in the game to start with.
They could have shipped the game with just power, precision, ferocity and condition damage and made some armors that have better defense or that give health points, but with less attack stats to compensate for it. And done. We’ve successfully scrapped out a ton of useless stats and stat combinations and the remaining stats are all of equal importance (ok, condition still has that cap issue, but oh, can’t do much about that).
Unlike now, where half of the primary stats is designed to be quite useless.

Lazaar.9123:

Healing power is sometiiimes used in WvW zergs, but it’s not as common as it used to be. GW2s definition of support is more along the lines of boons and debuffs, which you can build for while still using the most offensive stat set. Not every stat set needs a use everywhere.

Read.

Rangelost.4857:

Non-berserker builds actually are more rewarding. Not once in over two years have I joined a dungeon group in which berserkers didn’t get themselves killed somehow.

There were even times when I had to go get my cleric to keep everyone alive because they were too busy dealing damage to keep themselves alive. It’s kind of funny, actually. People play berserker to deal more damage, but you don’t deal any damage when you’re dead, do you?

I don’t think you should get more loot or anything for not playing berseker — that would be absurd. And besides, constantly reviving your “epic zerk meta” companions is already a lot of experience points.

One or two berserkers in my group maximum has proven to be a lot more enjoyable, and completely wipe-free!

This argument can go around in a blame-game circle.
Nonzerk Player: You died because you are running glass cannon zerker. Dead people do zero damage. Clerics can heal you and stop you from dying.
Zerker Player: No, I died because you are running cleric instead of zerker, therefore the team has less DPS. If you had brought zerker, the boss would be dead. Dead boss does zero damage. I would have survived if you were zerker too.

This is a conflict of beliefs, and I dare say both are right and both are wrong. I have seen zerker teams wipe before halfway through the boss’s health, meaning running something with more survivability would have been better. I have also seen teams wipe with the boss just at 1hp because one of them wasnt zerker therefore lowering the team’s DPS.

The truth is simple: Zerkers go with Zerkers best, and Others go with Others best. Mixing them is where problems start, because Zerkers expect the boss to be dead within a 20 seconds DPS burst(and have only prepared enough active defenses/self heal to last only as much) and die past that point. Others aim for the fight to draw out(killing the boss in a safe way) and have enough active defenses prepared for it(at the cost of lower DPS). They do not mix well.

Azhure.1857:

Ayrilana.1396:

So basically the people saying berserker is lazy are the ones who have likely never played it?

I have multiple characters decked out in Berserker gear AND with a glass trait setup. While it can be difficult in certain cases, and therefor can’t be described as “lazy” in all instances, there are just as many cases where it is just that. Rather… it is to those of us that perceive it that way.

Do I wish Berserker setups to be nerfed? No.
Surprised?

I feel the real problem is that there isn’t enough risk in being a glass cannon in this game. Challenge? Yes, in many cases. But not all. Active defenses can be used just as strongly on a zerker as a non-zerker character. Risk? Where is the risk? Glass should shatter and break if used by the unskilled or unwary. Yet we have none of that. The only thing that we risk in this game when we run berserker and fail is taking seconds or minutes longer at certain content. Which means next to nothing.

So for me personally it is not about the gear. Its about a lack of adequate risk vs. reward. Enemy AI is horrible. Consequences for dying almost non-existent. Poor game design where time spent farming for X amount of gold is more important than great, immersive gameplay.

There’s a simple way to fix the risk thing.
1. Increase damage for every foe in-game.
2. Increase the effectiveness of Toughness and Healing Power.

To such a point that people running Zerker gear get 1-hitted by almost anything.

Consequences:
1. “Skilled/Good” Zerkers will not be affected because they are “Pro” at perfect dodging and will never take a hit, so it does not matter whether the boss hits for 1 damage or 10 million damage, they will evade the attack regardless.
2. Nonzerks benefit from improved Toughness and Healing Power, therefore still maintain their current gameplay(increased damage from foes vs increased toughness effectiveness averages out).
3. Bad brainless DPS spam Zerkers get the boot. But they can go down two paths. They either
a) get better and become Skilled Zerkers
b) run something that is more appropriate for them to survive

Forcing bad players to become skilled is good for the game. Making Zerker a playstyle that is not “everyone can do it” is also good for the game, it creates build variety.

Manuhell.2759:

The problem is that “highly skilled players” shouldn’t be restricted to use a single stat composition to be effective.

And they’re not.
But the issue remains that highly skilled players most of the times are heavily invested in the game. And very many of those heavily invested in the game value efficiency and play in a way that maximizes rewards.

Nobody is restricted to any stat composition – it is a choice.

You can’t have variety when we’re talking about effectiveness because when it comes to effectiveness what matters isn’t using multiple ways but using the best way.

Ascended gear provides about 5% bonus over exotic gear but even when the effectiveness increase is so small people who are interested in this go for ascended and legendary tier items.

This has nothing to do with the difference in efficiency – people want best in slot. People want the best way and will find it and only play that way.

Manuhell.2759:

What’s the point of having a lot of stats and stat combinations if people aren’t really supposed to use them once they’re good enough?

I have explained this in another thread.
Aside from their use in different areas of the game ( WvW and sPVP) other gear stats allow players to set their own difficulty level for content.

In GW2 – by its design – people can choose how hard they want their content to be by using more tanky or more glassy gear.
If running AC is too hard as full glass cannon you can toss in toughness gear and get through. What you’ve done is essentially created a difficulty slider and put it in the hands of the players.

Top skill will mean full glass – because you can already best the content with zero support from passive stats.

Manuhell.2759:

…but here i cannot agree. If healing power is supposed to be useless by design, what’s the point of it existing in the first place? What’s the point of it being on equal terms with other stats on gear and such, if it is supposed to be less effective than other stats?
What’s the point of having gears with it if they’re supposed to be intrinsecally inferior, just by having said stat instead of something more useful?
It is like they created such stats and their combinations just as padding content, seeing as there is no real need to use them.

Exactly as I pointed out above- there are other areas in the game where it does have value such as sPVP and WvW.
There’s no “equal terms” – Healing power in PVE is designed to help out those for whom the base effectiveness of heals coupled with dodges, positioning and active defense isn’t enough to ensure survival.

Anet always realized a portion of players would never be quick, informed or competent enough to stay alive without being helped out by passive stats or by having stronger heals to compensate for personal shortcomings.

It’s not “intrinsically inferior” – it’s designed to do a completely different thing. It was never designed to be as fast at clearing content as glassy gear. It was designed to help people who can’t manage on their own out.

Manuhell.2759:

More like, change the game so that there is some reason to use half of those stats, else there is no point of even having them in the first place, unlike berserker’s ones.
And if there is no point of having them, they shouldn’t have put them in the game to start with.

If these stats were not added in the game in the first place a lot of people would be unable to complete even the most basic and simple content in the game.
It would leave them out since the content’s difficulty would be too great for them.
They’ve built a game for everybody – and that means allowing everybody to complete and supporting them through different means. Multiple gear options are one of those means.

Even the worst player will have a hard time dying in full nomad’s gear.

Manuhell.2759:

Unlike now, where half of the primary stats is designed to be quite useless.

I hope that the arguments above will make you and others see that statements like the one above are not and cannot be true.

Just because you can’t see the reasoning behind it – or don’t like it – doesn’t mean this is not what was intended.

High skill? hahaha. Some bosses die before the icebow #5 ends. How is it hard to kill a boss that doens’t fight back? In most cases you dont even need to dodge, just spam dps.

I see no reason for them not increasing the difficulty of the the easiest paths like cof1,2 ,ac1,2,3 ,etc….

Sorry kids. Anet can’t nerf the fact that some of us take the time to get good and put in the effort to make zerker look op.

I can about guarantee that skilled hands running anything non zerker will clear content faster and more reliably than unskilled hands running anything, including zerker.

I can about guarantee that if they made content reward non-zerk builds more, most of you doing all this sobbing would still be left far, far away in the dust trails of those that were better at making it shine than anyone will every make anything shine of they can’t make zerker look good too.

This isn’t a stat issue and it never was. This is a learn to stop being trash and make gear work for you. There is no contest between political prefixes. No start prefix is going to be running for president of HoT.

I’ve got five gear sets on my guardian alone. Some I use often (zerker chiefly) and others circumstantially ( looking at you, shaman).

Realize that there is no such thing as Team Zerker or this beat down little-man opponent of everything else.

There is gear and whether you’re smart enough to do with it what you want to get done, and that’s it.

xDudisx.5914:

High skill? hahaha. Some bosses die before the icebow #5 ends. How is it hard to kill a boss that doens’t fight back? In most cases you dont even need to dodge, just spam dps.

I see no reason for them not increasing the difficulty of the the easiest paths like cof1,2 ,ac1,2,3 ,etc….

Oh goddies. Can you link me a video of someone killing a boss before Icebow #5?? Please Please pretty please. You always seem to write stuff that is so precise and always working in reality and never Hyperbole just to make your point even if you never experienced yourself that kind of situation. Please pretty please senpai, explain to us how you do that? Killing a boss before Icebow #5, wow you are so good at that game.

If they increase the effectiveness of toughness and vit, it will just lead to a whole new set of problems. Problems that have existed since the game launched but don’t really get highlighted.

For example, an ele in full toughness/vit gear has LESS health and toughness then a warrior in zerker gear. When in zerker gear ele’s do more dmg than warriors by a small margin, but if you make an ele have the same toughness and vit as a warrior then the warrior does 60% more dmg than the ele.

This discrepancy would be amplified significantly if zerker is nerfed in some way, and then we will have the same problem we have now, except we will be kicking anyone that isn’t a warrior instead of anyone who isn’t zerker.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

When in zerker gear ele’s do more dmg than warriors by a small margin, but if you make an ele have the same toughness and vit as a warrior then the warrior does 60% more dmg than the ele.

Elementalists do, conservatively, 20% more dps than a warrior. If you count Ice Bow and Glyph of Storms in short duration fights its probably closer to 50% more.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

except we will be kicking anyone that isn’t a warrior instead of anyone who isn’t zerker.

The early days all over again! 4 War 1 Mes dungeon clears. ::shudder::

Zerk is fine. Zerk is a niche in itself. Zerkers just expect everything to melt. If you know when to dodge zerk will do fine in all present content. If hard mode would be introduced and all enemies would hit 2-3 times as fast, for 60/40% of the damage, all zerkers would need new armor, or “healing/regen/protection/(aoe) blinds/aegis” or be melted themselves. Then again so would all based on full offensive stats…

IMHO zealots and sinister are an addition to the present meta. They allow for condition builds to run dungeons. And as long as zerk stays base, sinister will be a usefull addition. Zealots will add additional healing to classes which are already capable of healing, eg guard, necro, elementalist, with only a small reduction in dmg output

I also think there are stats that have no use in PVE atm. I do not consider pure condition builds useless though.
generally I do agree with the rule:
3 off stats = Hey: GOOD ! =D
2 off stats = mmm, ’kay, hop you have thought this through.
1 off stat power = hope you have a good plan, :/
1 minor condi or 0 off stat = have a good time soloing. 8(

I find viable: zerk, sin, sinister, zealot , valkyrie(at least 1 or some pieces),
I find niche: clerics, knights, cavalier, rampager, celestial, carrion, soldiers,rabid, dire,
I find useless: shaman, apothecary, settlers, nomads, sentinels, giver’s, magi …..

The useless stats can be used to create specialized builds in conjunction with other gear types, but to MAYBE have 1 low off stat and only def stats: Well…. NOOOoooo….!

If the patch would provide more enemies with 4k+ armor then zerk would be nice but the parts would be done by 1 S/S War, 1 Condi mesmer, 1 Condimancer, 1 condithief or 1 trap/condiranger… The rest of the party could be zerk. Then again as we will have new proffesions and specialisations…… We’ll see.

Thaddeus.4891:

xDudisx.5914:

High skill? hahaha. Some bosses die before the icebow #5 ends. How is it hard to kill a boss that doens’t fight back? In most cases you dont even need to dodge, just spam dps.

I see no reason for them not increasing the difficulty of the the easiest paths like cof1,2 ,ac1,2,3 ,etc….

Oh goddies. Can you link me a video of someone killing a boss before Icebow #5?? Please Please pretty please. You always seem to write stuff that is so precise and always working in reality and never Hyperbole just to make your point even if you never experienced yourself that kind of situation. Please pretty please senpai, explain to us how you do that? Killing a boss before Icebow #5, wow you are so good at that game.

I said the bosses die before icebow #5 effect ends (effect = deep freeze) not the cast of #5 itself. It is very common that bosses die before deep freeze ends. Want 1 example? Ac p2 final boss. The FGS/norn form helped a little making stuff harder but it was just not enough.

I see you don’t have arguments and tries make use of ad hominem.

xDudisx.5914:

I said the bosses die before icebow #5 effect ends (effect = deep freeze) not the cast of #5 itself. It is very common that bosses die before deep freeze ends. Want 1 example? Ac p2 final boss. The FGS/norn form helped a little making stuff harder but it was just not enough.

I see you don’t have arguments and tries make use of ad hominem.

AC have scaling issues since the last feature pack, not really fair to talk about how melting this boss is easy. Its easy and its a bug in my opinion because of the problem with scaling.

But outside of AC, not that much bosses can be melt down before the Icebow #5 ends unless you have a really organized team, optimized and prepared.

Wasn’t Beserker gear already nerfed with the introduction of Ferocity, and the Aprl 15 patch? I knew it wouldn’t die, and that it would still reign supreme even though it took out about 2-3k max DPS IIRC

Thaddeus.4891:

xDudisx.5914:

I said the bosses die before icebow #5 effect ends (effect = deep freeze) not the cast of #5 itself. It is very common that bosses die before deep freeze ends. Want 1 example? Ac p2 final boss. The FGS/norn form helped a little making stuff harder but it was just not enough.

I see you don’t have arguments and tries make use of ad hominem.

AC have scaling issues since the last feature pack, not really fair to talk about how melting this boss is easy. Its easy and its a bug in my opinion because of the problem with scaling.

But outside of AC, not that much bosses can be melt down before the Icebow #5 ends unless you have a really organized team, optimized and prepared.

First you said that there was no problem, but now you say it is a bug? Cm, SE, TA etc have some bosses that melt way too fast.

AC and the under 80 dungeons need a major buff.

“Optimized and prepared” I dont see what is hard about getting zerker gear plus copy paste build+some consumables.

One of the issues I have with the this whole berserker argument is that it suppose to be justified by the lack of defensive stats, but by that same notion there should be a build of some profession that caps out damage wise in Rampager’s or the new Sinister gear as they equally lack defense. Then we get into the odd critical hit immune object bosses (that feel a bit lazy in that over all design).

AC bosses melt anyhow if you stack might and use 2 banners, even if everybody uses something else It’s easy to kill withing 1 trap….. as long as they are not nomad mace guards.

Bran.7425:

One of the issues I have with the this whole berserker argument is that it suppose to be justified by the lack of defensive stats, but by that same notion there should be a build of some profession that caps out damage wise in Rampager’s or the new Sinister gear as they equally lack defense. Then we get into the odd critical hit immune object bosses (that feel a bit lazy in that over all design).

One problem with no crit is that there are conditions that proc on crit. Giving higher armor and maybe less hp would be a good way to promote conditions a little bit, at least for bosses.

xDudisx.5914:

High skill? hahaha. Some bosses die before the icebow #5 ends. How is it hard to kill a boss that doens’t fight back? In most cases you dont even need to dodge, just spam dps.

I see no reason for them not increasing the difficulty of the the easiest paths like cof1,2 ,ac1,2,3 ,etc….

These dungeons are stupidly easy due to messed up scaling.

Go do arah/hotw and then tell me how bosses die before deep freeze ends

edit: and yeah, frankly it does make those easy dungeons boring as hell. Even for us zerkers. But balancing the scaling would just push the good players back to arah even more, and make it harder for people to get into dungeoning at all.

xDudisx.5914:

One problem with no crit is that there are conditions that proc on crit. Giving higher armor and maybe less hp would be a good way to promote conditions a little bit, at least for bosses.

Perhaps, but with the whole games design being hinder with the limitation of 5v5 conquest mode balance it will be some time before PvE can really progress that and the condition caps (along with passive condition are going to happen traits when critical hits) make a condition focus player in a place where they may not get credit no matter the effort they put into the encounter (not to mention the general population focus of burn it before it can do anything/time limit style dps (gear) check encounter design)

Guys, you are going off topic!!
I did not say zerks need to be nerfd, and the topic is not about how zerks are lame.
Some of us clearly like this style and its really fine, but the problem is that other builds don’t match zerks in PVE.

Lets simplify it: condies are bad in PVE, they need improvement.

Mapisto.2154:

Guys, you are going off topic!!
I did not say zerks need to be nerfd, and the topic is not about how zerks are lame.
Some of us clearly like this style and its really fine, but the problem is that other builds don’t match zerks in PVE.

Lets simplify it: condies are bad in PVE, they need improvement.

The way condition stacking presently works is why they’re bad. I think anyone familiar with the problem would likely agree that they really ought to fix it. I’d personally advocate scrapping the present system entirely and redesign it, though lacking any functional knowledge of what their development environment really is, I can’t make suggestions I’d feel to be worth the time it’d take to write them as to how to go about that.