Guild Wars 2

@Skoigoth:
More importantly, you actually get a substantial benefit for non-zerker stats on your gear, condition damage in PvE excluded ofc (and even then, as long as you run around solo most condition setups are very good). A Nomad-character is surprisingly tanky in PvE, at least comparing a Berserker character. Sure, neither will die, but the former will not die by a landslide.

Mapisto.2154:

In ‘rewarding’ i meant for the player. there is no reason to change your build and armor stats to something other than zerk (mostly in pve). Its just too good on anything like world events, dungeons, it can solo bosses…
Ill give you an example:
My main character is a thief, and thieves have a bunch of fun skills like traps, caltrops, venoms and elit skills like dagger storm.
But why would I use them?! They arent that effective in pve, they are too weak.
You better put zerk armor and all your signets and just burst damage by spamming backstab.
Even short bow is used only because of its 5th skill for mobility and thats it.
If you like this style, be my guest. But I think arenanet need to make other builds more liked and wanted.
Its like they are saying ‘We gave you a lot of skills but only 2 are actually good. The rest is just foe the show’.

Tonight I ran through all of Arah, the only time I didn’t have a shortbow equipped was on Lupi where I run DD/SP. The rest of the time the blasts for stealth and mobility make it a must have.

For Dagger Storm, I used that quite often actually, I didn’t have a very well made group so I was on reflect duty to take out the orrian turrets, boom daggerstorm baby. Aside from that the Ghost Aboms in P1 if you get 15 stacks of that buff/dot on you then unleash dagger storm, well… they just poof, so much damage!

Traps, well Shadowtrap is used to do the orbs before Lupi solo, combined with Shadowstep (which I also use on Lupi).

Venom I use Devourer Venom and Needle Trap on Tar for the immobilize.

Then of course all 3 stealth skills I’m using regularly as well as Smoke Screen for projectile defense on different bosses.

Weapon wise like I said shortbow usually equipped, but I’d swap between DD for most boss fights, DP for blind/defiant stripping, and SP for when I need the evades.

I think I get what you want, and that’s more options than a power based build in dungeons…. well conditions just don’t work in that content. I think many people are open to them adjusting them somehow but as far as we know it’s one of those things that’s “on the table” but really not going to happen.

Aside from a Condi build being viable though, I simply wouldn’t play my thief any other way with any other gear. It just wouldn’t make sense. There certainly are many unused abilities in the game, from traits to utilities to even weapons for every profession in PVE. Why use a shield on guard? A scepter on Mesmer? Most of the Signets on Guard go unused. It’s simply that they don’t lend themselves to the content, and buffing them would break them in PVP and ANet is very reluctant to have separation of PVE and PVP so… yeah…

I do understand the desire to have more options, I mean at most I feel like I have about half a dozen regularly used builds on each profession in PVE, that’s not including just minor tweaks, but 2-6 play style effecting build changes per profession in group PVE play. With the vast amount of abilities out there there are so many combinations that simply don’t live up to what is best, and that is a bit dissappointing. But, there’s no miracle fix for that, we need ANet to give in on a few decisions and work towards some things.

That does not include gear outside of condi, the safety blanket that defensive stats provide is perfectly done. What needs to happen is simply addressing the issues with Condi, and perhaps giving some separation of PVE and PVP on some abilities so they can be buffed to be worthwhile. I mean really Skale Venom for thief is 3 stacks of 10s (5s with defiance) of vuln… look at Rapid Fire, Grenades, Glyph of Storm, Warrior Axe2/mace4… There are some glaring inadequacies that are hindered by that decision. Those are the things we need ANet to look at IMO.

This thread is just the same arguments going around and around, being constantly repeated. I really doubt this is going to get anywhere, just like every other thread concerning the ‘meta’.

Mapisto.2154:

My main character is a thief, and thieves have a bunch of fun skills like traps, caltrops, venoms and elit skills like dagger storm.
But why would I use them?! They arent that effective in pve, they are too weak.
You better put zerk armor and all your signets and just burst damage by spamming backstab.
Even short bow is used only because of its 5th skill for mobility and thats it.
If you like this style, be my guest. But I think arenanet need to make other builds more liked and wanted.
Its like they are saying ‘We gave you a lot of skills but only 2 are actually good. The rest is just foe the show’.

Shadow Trap is used to solo the orbs in Arah p3 and 4. I also use the trap for immobilize on Legendary Shoggroth in Arah p1 and the Devourer venom for Shoggroth as well for further immobilize.

I also use dagger storm often for example in CM p2 when clearing the room after Taylor I would just spin inside. I also use dagger storm regularly if I need to pop stability for say Simin in Arah p4 so I don’t get petrified.

Caltrops I will concede are mostly useless in PvE.

Shortbow I use auto attack to clear the blossoms in TA. Skill 2 to blast, especially fire field for might and my own smoke field for stealth. Skill 4 is niche but poison can be useful against bosses that heal quickly by stemming their heal a bit with poison.

It really seems to me that you just don’t understand your class (thief) at all and how to play it properly in dungeons or anywhere.

Lazaar.9123:

This thread is just the same arguments going around and around, being constantly repeated. I really doubt this is going to get anywhere, just like every other thread concerning the ‘meta’.

I think one bigger problem is that if you truly want to endanger berserker players (which you should, PvP does this better, deal superior damage but if something sneezes in your general direction you feed rallies to the enemy team), your content has to do that, not the skill/class balance.

That is to say, content needs to be balanced so that berserker characters go down in 5-6 hits, while a Nomad character can not only sustain 20+ hits before going down but also easily heal themselves back up. Instead of the 1 vs 2 hits we have now. Likewise a berserker character should kill an enemy before they can utilize their own healing/CC, while a nomad character cannot do that. And so on.

The tuning of PvE has to be adapter to achieve anything. Ignoring that, current balance is good. Tanky setups give lots of tankiness, in the boundaries of the current system.

Carighan.6758:

Lazaar.9123:

This thread is just the same arguments going around and around, being constantly repeated. I really doubt this is going to get anywhere, just like every other thread concerning the ‘meta’.

I think one bigger problem is that if you truly want to endanger berserker players (which you should, PvP does this better, deal superior damage but if something sneezes in your general direction you feed rallies to the enemy team), your content has to do that, not the skill/class balance.

That is to say, content needs to be balanced so that berserker characters go down in 5-6 hits, while a Nomad character can not only sustain 20+ hits before going down but also easily heal themselves back up. Instead of the 1 vs 2 hits we have now. Likewise a berserker character should kill an enemy before they can utilize their own healing/CC, while a nomad character cannot do that. And so on.

The tuning of PvE has to be adapter to achieve anything. Ignoring that, current balance is good. Tanky setups give lots of tankiness, in the boundaries of the current system.

Not sure what you are trying to say, but a a zerker in most circumstances would be downed in 1 or 2 hit. People do fractal 50 with zerker despite trash mobs almost one shotting a player with basic attacks. In fact before the whole fractured patch where there weren’t reliable agony resist for high level fractal and most mobs inflicted agony and would one shot anyone, people still ran zerker.

Nomad can already tank alot of hits, not just 1 or two. Heck not even nomads, sometimes our guild runs a cleric guardian on fractal 50 and literally face tanks mossman and arch diviner like nobodies business.

The only times a zerker can facetank lots of hit is in the really low level dungeons, but in those dungeons anyone with other gear becomes a demi god really, impossible to die with unless you were drunk and not even then.

Carighan.6758:

I think one bigger problem is that if you truly want to endanger berserker players (which you should, PvP does this better, deal superior damage but if something sneezes in your general direction you feed rallies to the enemy team), your content has to do that, not the skill/class balance.

And then who will play it? Who enjoys playing at their 100% all the time and getting terribly stomped at the first mistake?

I’m pretty sure the majority of players don’t.
GW2 players are casual. They don’t really want to be stomped into the ground every time they attempt something in PVE and make a mistake.

I run sword and board / LB celestial war. 3/5/6/0/0
My attack routine takes 1.85 seconds. It does about 3K direct damage and 2K bleed damage. That will go up or down depending on the group.
I have 3.4K armor that spikes up to 4.4K armor when I break a stun.

I normally run PUG groups. It is really easy to run with non-zerk, non-80s through paths. If the groups is low enough in stats, we don’t stack. We don’t run past mobs. The path takes about twice as long, but I have way more fun doing that than yet another stack-fest 10 min or less clear.

Honestly my zerk gear kills a bit faster because of no ramp up time and I can do some cool stuff with it while having fun. But it is just so same-y. I was always experimenting with builds and avoiding the meta even in GW1.

My only issue with the zerk meta is people too bad at the game to play with non-zerk people, and arrogant people who think they are good because they wear zerk gear. Thankfully they tend to play with each other and I can avoid them.
Some people do just want to speed clear, those people are also fine. I’d rather play with the build I want than complete the dungeon 33% faster, but that is their prerogative.

The zerk meta will die when the AI gets better.

xDudisx.5914:

summon AI (frost spirit)

There is no need to list this as a separate thing the frost spirit is more akin to a banner than any other summon AI in the game.

Harper.4173:

And then who will play it? Who enjoys playing at their 100% all the time and getting terribly stomped at the first mistake?

And then if you don’t like that, you don’t go Zerker/Sinister/Rampager.
Easy.

I mean that’s actually the most self-explanatory version, no? Trait and gear fully for offence, you do good damage and tank like paper tissue at best. Want more defense, sacrifice some offence. That seems… perfect to me, sorry.

Carighan.6758:

That is to say, content needs to be balanced so that berserker characters go down in 5-6 hits, while a Nomad character can not only sustain 20+ hits before going down but also easily heal themselves back up. Instead of the 1 vs 2 hits we have now. Likewise a berserker character should kill an enemy before they can utilize their own healing/CC, while a nomad character cannot do that. And so on.

So, let’s see if I have this straight.

• Mobs should hit for less damage, so that berserker stats should allow for 5 to 6 times the mistakes/white damage as now v. the 1 hit you believe they can take now.
• Nomad characters should be able to make/take 20+ mistakes/white damage v. the 2 hits you believe they can take now.
• Glass characters should be able to consistently one-shot (presumably players, since mobs rarely heal, unless you’re talking about Mordrem Menders) before they can use a heal or (in most cases instant) CC.

That’s what your words say. I hope that this is not what you meant.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Carighan.6758:

That is to say, content needs to be balanced so that berserker characters go down in 5-6 hits, while a Nomad character can not only sustain 20+ hits before going down but also easily heal themselves back up. Instead of the 1 vs 2 hits we have now. Likewise a berserker character should kill an enemy before they can utilize their own healing/CC, while a nomad character cannot do that. And so on.

So, let’s see if I have this straight.

• Mobs should hit for less damage, so that berserker stats should allow for 5 to 6 times the mistakes/white damage as now v. the 1 hit you believe they can take now.
• Nomad characters should be able to make/take 20+ mistakes/white damage v. the 2 hits you believe they can take now.
• Glass characters should be able to consistently one-shot (presumably players, since mobs rarely heal, unless you’re talking about Mordrem Menders) before they can use a heal or (in most cases instant) CC.

That’s what your words say. I hope that this is not what you meant.

You are being too literal. Also he didn’t say anything about mobs doing less damage.

I think the point he was making is Zerker should go down if they get hit by a mobs attack significantly quicker than a Nomad for example. Zerker however should be able to kill faster than Nomad as a compensation.

Essentially, his point is vitality and toughness should actually scale relative to surivival similar to the way power and ferocity and precision does for damage.

silvermember.8941:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Carighan.6758:

That is to say, content needs to be balanced so that berserker characters go down in 5-6 hits, while a Nomad character can not only sustain 20+ hits before going down but also easily heal themselves back up. Instead of the 1 vs 2 hits we have now. Likewise a berserker character should kill an enemy before they can utilize their own healing/CC, while a nomad character cannot do that. And so on.

So, let’s see if I have this straight.

• Mobs should hit for less damage, so that berserker stats should allow for 5 to 6 times the mistakes/white damage as now v. the 1 hit you believe they can take now.
• Nomad characters should be able to make/take 20+ mistakes/white damage v. the 2 hits you believe they can take now.
• Glass characters should be able to consistently one-shot (presumably players, since mobs rarely heal, unless you’re talking about Mordrem Menders) before they can use a heal or (in most cases instant) CC.

That’s what your words say. I hope that this is not what you meant.

You are being too literal. Also he didn’t say anything about mobs doing less damage.

I think the point he was making is Zerker should go down if they get hit by a mobs attack significantly quicker than a Nomad for example. Zerker however should be able to kill faster than Nomad as a compensation.

Essentially, his point is vitality and toughness should actually scale relative to surivival similar to the way power and ferocity and precision does for damage.

And… they do.

Factanking bosses that hit like that isn’t scaling?

Carighan.6758:

Harper.4173:

And then who will play it? Who enjoys playing at their 100% all the time and getting terribly stomped at the first mistake?

And then if you don’t like that, you don’t go Zerker/Sinister/Rampager.
Easy.

I mean that’s actually the most self-explanatory version, no? Trait and gear fully for offence, you do good damage and tank like paper tissue at best. Want more defense, sacrifice some offence. That seems… perfect to me, sorry.

Except it isn’t.

Making bosses and encounters more lethal for zerkers also makes them more lethal for everybody else.

That’s what I’m trying to explain. Up the bar higher and even people in tanky gear that aren’t so good will find themselves overwhelmed.

The content is old, it’s been understood and learned by heart – there’s no denying that.
In order to make it harder for those that do know it by heart and run it as pure glass you must make it more deadly.

Ultimately you won’t hurt those who know it by heart and run it in zerks as much as you’ll be hurting people who are not so familiar with it and not so familiar with their own class or game mechanics in order to keep themselves alive in this new, more deadly environment.

i don’t think the people in this thread understand how tanky PVT/nomad actually is so as opposed to berserker

like i’m pretty sure you can even stack enough defensive stats to the point that against the crusher in arah p3 you can actually eat one of his swings as long as you have a block up for the other half of it. a full sentinel necro I think can even eat a maximum range kill shot in arah p2 as well which will smack you for like 30k in berserker gear.

This thread needs merging with : https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/This-Meta-has-to-end/page/29#post4646986

silvermember.8941:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Carighan.6758:

That is to say, content needs to be balanced so that berserker characters go down in 5-6 hits, while a Nomad character can not only sustain 20+ hits before going down but also easily heal themselves back up. Instead of the 1 vs 2 hits we have now. Likewise a berserker character should kill an enemy before they can utilize their own healing/CC, while a nomad character cannot do that. And so on.

So, let’s see if I have this straight.

• Mobs should hit for less damage, so that berserker stats should allow for 5 to 6 times the mistakes/white damage as now v. the 1 hit you believe they can take now.
• Nomad characters should be able to make/take 20+ mistakes/white damage v. the 2 hits you believe they can take now.
• Glass characters should be able to consistently one-shot (presumably players, since mobs rarely heal, unless you’re talking about Mordrem Menders) before they can use a heal or (in most cases instant) CC.

That’s what your words say. I hope that this is not what you meant.

You are being too literal. Also he didn’t say anything about mobs doing less damage.

“content needs to be balanced so that berserker characters go down in 5-6 hits … Instead of the 1 vs 2 hits we have now.” If you accept his assumptions of 1 to 2 hits now (presumably for glass and bulky, respectively), the only way to make glass be able to take more hits is for mob damage to be reduced or the Armor stat to mean more — either way mobs would be doing less damage.

I think the point he was making is Zerker should go down if they get hit by a mobs attack significantly quicker than a Nomad for example. Zerker however should be able to kill faster than Nomad as a compensation.

That’s the way the game works now.

Essentially, his point is vitality and toughness should actually scale relative to surivival similar to the way power and ferocity and precision does for damage.

He used numbers to make his point. I’m analyzing the numbers and what they would mean. He seems to be assuming that glass takes 1 hit to down now and Nomad takes 2. He wants the game revised so that glass takes 5-6 hits to Nomad’s 20+, he’s asking for a shift from a 1:2 ratio to something along the lines of a 1:4 ratio in survivability. If you accept his assumptions (which I question), that’s proposing a 200% increase in the effectiveness of Nomads v. glass.

If that’s not what he meant he can clarify, but that’s what the numbers he used say.

OK, here’s a worrying thought.

Unless I’m mistaken, I’m not alone in thinking that the “zerker meta problem” that some people see is mostly just a case of content being in place for so long that a sizeable chunk of the player base effectively considers it to be on farm. Simply releasing new content, as long as it’s reasonably high-quality, will make the ‘problem’ go away for the most part.

But we have a problem. If you can farm ‘zerkable’ content for decent gold per hour, what does the less-zerkable content have to offer before you’ll do it? Even though players do actually come to the game for fun and challenge, they will still happily optimise both of those things out of the experience if that lets them ‘win more’ — or, in context, earn more ‘rewards’.

In this context, doing the less-zerkable content is massively less rewarding — it will take a long time before you can put the content on farm and go back to your original gold/hour or better. And if you resort to training wheel gear to get through the less-zerkable content, after investing vast quantities of gold, laurels, and skill points into your zerk gear, you’re not going to be happy.

So what do people think ANet is doing to prevent that? Nerfing gold rewards from existing dungeons doesn’t sound like it would be well-received. And having new content give massively higher gold/hour would simply cause the economy itself to punish players for running older content.

Ppl not good enough to do that ‘’less-zerkable content’’ will stick with easier content, while good enough player will complete this content for a higher reward, but harder to do.

You already see this in game. Arah path 1 and 2 are some of the most rewarding dungeon right now, but still a lot of ppl prefer to do CoF and AC. Why? Because most ppl have an easier time doing AC and CoF even if the reward is a bit less good. Not everybody is able to make Arah path 1 and 2 fast enough to make them more rewarding than CoF or AC.

Out of curiosity, for Meta groups, I’d like to know:

- How much time do you need for AC p1 ? What does this time become when you only change your stuff (not trais, not strat) if you redo the same with PVT gear ? How does it shift for Arah p1 ?
-If a Meta solo player open a LFG “AC p1 zerk Meta only”, how much time is required to fill the group? If now the LFG is “AC p1” ? How does that translat with Arah p1?

Ranael.6423:

Out of curiosity, for Meta groups, I’d like to know:

- How much time do you need for AC p1 ? What does this time become when you only change your stuff (not trais, not strat) if you redo the same with PVT gear ? How does it shift for Arah p1 ?
-If a Meta solo player open a LFG “AC p1 zerk Meta only”, how much time is required to fill the group? If now the LFG is “AC p1” ? How does that translat with Arah p1?

1. A full soldiers run using meta strats would be, at worst, about 20% slower. You run past trash mobs at the same speed regardless of build. Soldiers is like 40% worse dps than berserker, but boss fights are a minor aspect of time spent in dungeons.

2. Both fill quickly, anything goes probably fills fastest.

Ranael.6423:

Out of curiosity, for Meta groups, I’d like to know:

- How much time do you need for AC p1 ? What does this time become when you only change your stuff (not trais, not strat) if you redo the same with PVT gear ? How does it shift for Arah p1 ?
-If a Meta solo player open a LFG “AC p1 zerk Meta only”, how much time is required to fill the group? If now the LFG is “AC p1” ? How does that translat with Arah p1?

For AC path 1 it usually take between 10-15min in speed run, the records is 4-5min. Never did it in PvT.

For Arah path 1 its about 15-20min, the record is like less than 10min if I remember correctly. Again, never did it in PvT gear so I don’t know.

I never created a zerk meta only because if i want a zerk meta run i’ll do it with my guild not with pugs. But from time to time I enter a full zerker run and its doesn’t take much time to fill. The problem is when the guy that started the instance start to ask ppl to pings and then ppl don’t do it and then ppl start to kick and bla bla bla. Mainly the reason why i never ask for zerk meta in a pug, that’s just awful.

Thaddeus.4891:

The problem is when the guy that started the instance start to ask ppl to pings and then ppl don’t do it and then ppl start to kick and bla bla bla. Mainly the reason why i never ask for zerk meta in a pug, that’s just awful.

This always baffles my mind.

The only reason to zerk is for speed. If you burn time witch-hunting the non-zerks, you lose that edge.

Just a note: Even when in full zerk, I will not ping you my gear. I am going to block you then leave your party.

On the odd occasion I join a PUG that wasn’t specifically labeled zerk-only and someone nags for gear pings, I like to ping random pieces of my different gear sets just to see what they’ll say.

I usually run zerk, but I’m not at all above linking pieces of my valk, shaman and clerics sets if it’ll amuse me to do it.

Marthkus.4615:

Thaddeus.4891:

The problem is when the guy that started the instance start to ask ppl to pings and then ppl don’t do it and then ppl start to kick and bla bla bla. Mainly the reason why i never ask for zerk meta in a pug, that’s just awful.

This always baffles my mind.

The only reason to zerk is for speed. If you burn time witch-hunting the non-zerks, you lose that edge.

Just a note: Even when in full zerk, I will not ping you my gear. I am going to block you then leave your party.

Not really. Zerk = Speed, Yes. But it also means someone who’s chosen speed over east of play. And the fact that it’s as squishy as it is means they generally have to know what they’re doing a bit more. Now, not saying all PUGs do, there are many that “run zerk” but don’t even understand what they’re doing. But, it’s at least an attempt to grab like minded people who likely are a bit more experienced as they’ve shed their safety blankets which is the vit/toughness/healing power stats.

While I never put up LFGs for zerk/meta stuff (rarely put up lfgs in general), I completely understand the idea because to me “getting through” a dungeon isn’t the point. I want to have fun doing it. For example a Walled Lupi… nope, I even ask before I enter the zone if I see a guard in party. Ranging p3 SE dredge cart… it’s much less fun. And SEp1 is very fun to charge through at lightning speed, but when you’re doing the pug tactics waiting for Nokk to run down the ramp and what not, it just kind of takes all the fun out of the dungeon for me.

I don’t play to be frustrated, I play for fun, and in that regard I understand why people at least try to gather like minded people in their groups.

Zerk player does not mean good. Most of the zerk players I have ran into do not know how to dodge. They just know the pug stacking tactics.

This is mainly because of the zerk meta. Way to many people think they are good because they wear zerk and know where to wall stack.

Or they could just make skills that scale with a certain stat….DPS wise

For example does more dmg based on healing power.

Rem.9627:

Or they could just make skills that scale with a certain stat….DPS wise

For example does more dmg based on healing power.

No, what they need to have is encounter mechanics where these things are useful and NERF Guardian skills so that threats to berserker builds are not trivialized.

The problem is berserker builds can completely eliminate their weaknesses, whereas other stat builds can never get rid of their weakness (lower dps/clearing time). And there’s never a time in any encounter where the turning point of a fight is whether you have enough of a defensive stat or built durable.

If anything can be done by the berserker (and let’s be honest, any highest damage toon assuming in the distant future condi builds did the highest damage), then what’s the point of building for toughness or healing power stats?

There’s a reason why cleric, shaman stats are useless in PvE, as are most healing traits. You really can’t build for any role but damage since damage is all you need. The guardian and ele classes in turn bring all the team defense you could possibly need.

PvE scene in this game is dead compared to other MMO’s because there’s really no specialization or team synergy aspect besides bringing the classes that fart boons (guardian, warrior, ele) and stacking to abuse bad mob AI/boss attack design.

GW1 sure had bodyblock balling up and aoe, but things like interrupts were important and the variety of viable builds in PvE endgame were far more varied than GW2. In GW2 you just burst crap down while boons and dodges keep you alive.

And there are scenarios in which it’s not even skill based, just damage. Look at ascalonian fractal. The things hit you immediately for 5-6k+ autoattacks, each soldier at once. There’s no such thing as skillfully dodging all that damage. It’s about balling them up and killing them before they kill you.

For funsies, I went beating around yesterday in all green throw-away Valkyrie gear on my guardian. Thew up some dungeon pug teams, ran all of AC and all but aetherpath of Twilight Arbor, then told my PvE guild what I was doing.

So we upped the ante and did all Arah paths in level 65 Carrion greens with condition builds.

Took a bit longer than usual, but ya know, it worked out just fine.

Turns out that knowing the dungeons is vastly more important than your gear, and being able to coordinate even rudimentarily with your teammates can go a long way towards pushing things into easy territory.

Today, we’re going to see how we do with an Arah path in level 55 Valkyrie blues. If its fun enough, we might go for a full clear, or just flop into our zerker stuff and speed trash it.

We were chatting yesterday about knocking the gear down in progressive runs until we’re doing everything pro-style while naked.

I bet we can do it.

Incidentally, I think this right here is the real point of gear options – having fun with them.

Zenith.7301:

No, what they need to have is encounter mechanics where these things are useful and NERF Guardian skills so that threats to berserker builds are not trivialized.

If you nerf Guardian Skills in such a way you would wash out the class from every game mode. and make it a useless class.

The problem is berserker builds can completely eliminate their weaknesses, whereas other stat builds can never get rid of their weakness (lower dps/clearing time). And there’s never a time in any encounter where the turning point of a fight is whether you have enough of a defensive stat or built durable.

Beserker is a gear stat not a build. A Dungeon DpS build takes all the needed suppport and defense first for the chosen content and then goes from there. and that turning point in the fight is the moment you engage and is constantly reassessed each moment and skill use.

If anything can be done by the berserker (and let’s be honest, any highest damage toon assuming in the distant future condi builds did the highest damage), then what’s the point of building for toughness or healing power stats?

There’s a reason why cleric, shaman stats are useless in PvE, as are most healing traits. You really can’t build for any role but damage since damage is all you need. The guardian and ele classes in turn bring all the team defense you could possibly need.

PvE scene in this game is dead compared to other MMO’s because there’s really no specialization or team synergy aspect besides bringing the classes that fart boons (guardian, warrior, ele) and stacking to abuse bad mob AI/boss attack design.

PvE in Gw2 is alive and very well. not sure why you would think other wise.

GW1 sure had bodyblock balling up and aoe, but things like interrupts were important and the variety of viable builds in PvE endgame were far more varied than GW2. In GW2 you just burst crap down while boons and dodges keep you alive.

Interrupts and Control in general are widely and frequently used. Just not always merited as there is not always anything worth interrupting. but that is a different conversation all together. Comparing GW1 and GW2 is just difficult. 2 different games. that just happen to share the same lore and Name.

And there are scenarios in which it’s not even skill based, just damage. Look at ascalonian fractal. The things hit you immediately for 5-6k+ autoattacks, each soldier at once. There’s no such thing as skillfully dodging all that damage. It’s about balling them up and killing them before they kill you.

Try using Guardian and Thief support abilities. namely Blind. I, and many others dodge and negate that damage all the time.

What I have gotten out of this thread….

its not about gameplay, or Skill or even what Armor Stat is better.

People want their shiney things and are miffed that skilled players can get it faster than them.

Edit:
bolded mine and for typo’s

Marthkus.4615:

Zerk player does not mean good. Most of the zerk players I have ran into do not know how to dodge. They just know the pug stacking tactics.

This is mainly because of the zerk meta. Way to many people think they are good because they wear zerk and know where to wall stack.

I guess I shouldn’t have added that part as it obviously detracted from my main point.

The point is to play with like minded people. Zerks like other Zerks because they have that same mentality of Speed > All.

Of course though on easy dungeon you have a lot of people claiming to be meta, still corner stacking for no reason, guards/mesmers not using reflects and general kittenery going on but it all goes fine because you can burn through any of those pitiful boss encounters thanks to far too much damage or far too little health on those things. Personally I just avoid that kittenty content for the most part though or play a profession that can force people to run it better (Screw pugs pulling nokk and corner stacking the golems, I’ll just play guard/mesmer and do it strait up).