Guild Wars 2

Mathias.9657:

Synergy is more entertaining to me than sitting there having my auto attack do a rotation, and yes they have a built in rotation. It’s just less engaging.

Why do you feel pressing 1 button as opposed to 4 is more fun? Rotations like in WoW aren’t just 1234 either, it all depends on the situation you’re in what skills you use after. I don’t always have 4-5 finishers on my rogue up. It isn’t that simple, sometimes I go straight for burst and ignore increased attack speed and healing which are more for prolonged fights.

A fight that only requires you to do DPS will be boring no matter how many buttons you press to do that DPS If you find boring pressing 1 in GW2 I don’t know how would you find entertaining pressing Immolate -> Conflagrate as a destru warlock the whole freaking time, or doing anything as a moonkin. By keeping it simple we avoid cluttering up the screen and adding unnecessary complexity, while ideally mantaining the same depth.

If you are looking for sinergy, there’s plenty. It’s just not as “in your face” as in other games and not as needed for DPS.

And as someone who mainly plays PvP yes, I do find pressing 1 button instead of 4 to do DPS more entertaining as it allows me to focus on positioning, timing, enemy animations. You have to remember that GW2’s combat is way more action-oriented than WoW. I’m no Guitar hero fan.

Shootsfoot.9276:

I like the 5 skills slots per weapon. I just wish there were, say, 15 skills per weapon to choose from to put into those 5 skill slots.

This is very much something I am missing as well. I can relate to one of the replies with knowing your class and how and when to use your skills because I play an Engineer. In order for me to contribute to a run in the way that a mesmer with timewarp or a guardian with the rolling buffs would, I have to know every fight in every dungeon and plan for it… sometimes exhaustively. High order fractals are especially difficult because of the large number of skills I can bring to each encounter, and how they would help my party, and knowing when to use them, and knowing when there will be holes (like no reflects or smoke screens – I slot Elixir U).

I often miss the ability to slot different skills into my bar based on my weapon set (which is very limited for my profession), but do like the kits and the swapping mechanic. If there were more skills to choose from, then I would be able to more finely tune a build, without swapping guns, shields and in some cases, full gear sets for different bosses/encounters.

It isn’t like it would be that difficult to make little select tabs on the first 5 skills to choose maybe 3 or so alternative unlockable abilities.

One of the things that drove me away from WOW and SWTOR was the ridiculous number of abilities.

Noviere.7309:

One of the things that drove me away from WOW and SWTOR was the ridiculous number of abilities.

How are options a negative point in a game? I never played either one of those, but in GW1, a massive chunk of the fun was the number and synergy of all the skills in the game. Better yet, your entire bar was customizable, so you weren’t stuck with unchangeable attack skills and a paltry number of utility and elite skills.

The Spiral King.2483:

Noviere.7309:

One of the things that drove me away from WOW and SWTOR was the ridiculous number of abilities.

How are options a negative point in a game? I never played either one of those, but in GW1, a massive chunk of the fun was the number and synergy of all the skills in the game. Better yet, your entire bar was customizable, so you weren’t stuck with unchangeable attack skills and a paltry number of utility and elite skills.

Options aren’t a negative thing.

It’s just that there is a bar or macro for almost every single ability, that makes it annoying in World of Warcraft.

Original Guild Wars limited the player, with 8 bars, but you could customize them with almost every ability in the game. That is good.

The Spiral King.2483:

Noviere.7309:

One of the things that drove me away from WOW and SWTOR was the ridiculous number of abilities.

How are options a negative point in a game? I never played either one of those, but in GW1, a massive chunk of the fun was the number and synergy of all the skills in the game. Better yet, your entire bar was customizable, so you weren’t stuck with unchangeable attack skills and a paltry number of utility and elite skills.

In SWTOR and WoW, having so many options does nothing. It still ends up being the same 7-8 buttons you normally press 90% of the time. There is no “depth” added by having inferior abilities or abilities so situational you only use them every 3rd time you log in. Played WoW from release until Cata and a lot of buttons on a lot of classes were useless.

Same for Rift, played it from release and most of the time you end up using 7-8 buttons or a few macros with 8 different abilities in them, actually lowering the number of things you do.

They hit a good medium with skills on GW2, I don’t feel like I’m going to get carpal tunnel every fight in a dungeon trying to squeeze 100 more dps out of a rotation.

Aeonblade.8709:

The Spiral King.2483:

Noviere.7309:

One of the things that drove me away from WOW and SWTOR was the ridiculous number of abilities.

How are options a negative point in a game? I never played either one of those, but in GW1, a massive chunk of the fun was the number and synergy of all the skills in the game. Better yet, your entire bar was customizable, so you weren’t stuck with unchangeable attack skills and a paltry number of utility and elite skills.

In SWTOR and WoW, having so many options does nothing. It still ends up being the same 7-8 buttons you normally press 90% of the time. There is no “depth” added by having inferior abilities or abilities so situational you only use them every 3rd time you log in. Played WoW from release until Cata and a lot of buttons on a lot of classes were useless.

Same for Rift, played it from release and most of the time you end up using 7-8 buttons or a few macros with 8 different abilities in them, actually lowering the number of things you do.

They hit a good medium with skills on GW2, I don’t feel like I’m going to get carpal tunnel every fight in a dungeon trying to squeeze 100 more dps out of a rotation.

My only comment I would say is at least with those 8 buttons in WoW, you felt as if you were actively casting. Sure you had a rotation, but you also had to manage keeping buffs up, such as inquisition, while working with that rotation. It just seemed move involved, and I liked that. In GW2, it’s more all action on the autoattack #1 button and then just waiting for ridiculously-long cooldowns in the meantime. Sure, you can swap weapons, which essentially just swaps auto-attack, but once the other buttons are pushed, you are still waiting on cooldowns, be they the action buttons, or the 8(?) second weapon swap action button.

I think cooldowns are a bit long in this game, is what I’m trying to say, I guess.

as a continuously nerfed engineer in PVE I have to say trust me not all classes are created equal. We have to do three times as many moves as other classes just to do the same things they take for granted.

But for classes like my ranger/thief it is quite a short list of abilities.

Cooldowns are especially inequal and long in some cases just plain stupid for something so simple someone in RL could easily do it better that’s never had training in those weapons or devices. For example turrets, it shouldn’t ever be more then 10 seconds to cooldown after picking one up but someone keeps insisting on making engineer cooldowns the single longest cooldowns for everything in the game.

Also, I was a goblin hunter goblin engineer in WoW. I started playing the game back when they just did add three pets to the game, later you had to tame one pet to learn it’s ability to train to your main pet, and when you actually had to make your own ammo. I feel your pain.

@OP

As a WoW player who has played the game for 7 years, I has the same feeling as yours. Limited skill slots indeed make you really think about the right combination for the right situation, but it also bores me a lot especially when killing mobs.

Also, the CC abilities in GW2 are fairly weak. Too weak if I may. 2 seconds stun, 4 seconds slow…It took me a very long time to swallow the design philosophy of this game. Forgive me. but these short-duration CCs are the main reason why PvP is a complete DPS feast in this game, alongside that everybody gains access to dispelling (boon/condition-removing) and healing.

On the other hand, the utilities skills have incredibly long CD, which I hate a lot. After using all my utilities and the battle is still ongoing, what choice do I have?

Spam auto-attack. Wait, I don’t even need to spam it. It’s auto.

Sorry if you guys feel that I’m trolling. I just get too used to WoW. It takes time to embrace the new concept. ;P

Sure WoW and Aion had 6-8 bars of skills, but how many of those did we use? And how fun was it to have all that crap covering the screen?

It was just a game macros at that point.

Sometimes less is more. As many have said, alot of abilities in other ability heavy MMOs are just filler – things to press when your main attacks are on cool down. Plus, with every additional ability you add, balancing becomes even more difficult.

Kitten, I had to buy a Razer Naga just to be able to easily access all of my skills in SWTOR. I am glad games are leaving that phase behind personally. It is easier to take breaks and come back at a decent level of competency too. I don’t want to feel like pilot who needs to re-certify on some aircraft he hasn’t flown in 20 years.

There is a method to the simplicity.
1) you can change your utility skills to suite what you are fighting at that time or if you are teamed what best suits the groupI
2) you can swap out weapons to other then your 2 groups you have at that time.

When you think about it GW2 has more skills then WOW.

P.s. anyone who says you can autoattack in PvE doesn’t play this game

The Spiral King.2483:

How are options a negative point in a game? I never played either one of those, but in GW1, a massive chunk of the fun was the number and synergy of all the skills in the game. Better yet, your entire bar was customizable, so you weren’t stuck with unchangeable attack skills and a paltry number of utility and elite skills.

I can see how you’d think my post was anti-options, I guess. I didn’t really elaborate on why I was turned off by the over-abundance of abilities.

So let me be clearer: I love options! What I don’t like is have 40+ ability buttons(not to mention consumables!) on my screen at one time(this was my experience in SWTOR on my Jedi Knight). Having that many abilities is just unintuitive, and cumbersome to play.

GW1 had tons of skills, but limited you to 8 at a time. That is a much more sensible method of introducing complexity to a game while still preventing it from being an overwhelming chore to control.

Is GW2 “simple” in terms of how many abilities you have access to at any given time? Yes, especially in comparison to WoW/SWTOR/Rift/etc. It’s also a lot less annoying to play, and focuses more on movement and positioning, and is just more engaging for me.

To each their own though, right?

Krosslite.1950:

P.s. anyone who says you can autoattack in PvE doesn’t play this game

You apparently don’t have a sword/focus guardian.

The focus on GW2 combat is dynamic fighting (movement, dodging, positioning, timing), rather than having a large ability pool. Think of it this way: instead of having an ability for each different situation, each situation requires the use of the combat mechanics in combination with multi-faceted abilities to make each fight unique. This is more prevalent in PvP and WvW, and less so in a lot of PvE, however it is still there.

But we do have a large ability pool. Each character has:

20 utility skills
3 healing skills
3 elite skills
6 racial skills split between healing, utility and elite
A minimum of 3 unique class abilities (guardian), with some classes (thieves, warriors, engineers, rangers) having a vast array of options
A minimum of 17 weapon skills (engineer) with some classes having far more (elementalist has 80 including underwater)

Then there’s traits such as Evasive Arcana that turn otherwise non-skill actions into skills as well.

In GW2 we have a large amount of options. Between those, we have to narrow it down to around 15-20 skills available (kit-less engi gets the lowest, at 14; full conjure ele could potentially bring 50 cooldowns into a single encounter)

Seriously, the lowest amount of skills we can have access to at one time at level 30 is 14, and if you’re running an engineer with 14 skills, it’s because those are the skills you’ve chosen to build around and are prepared to use on a regular basis.

On the other hand, in WoW you have access to all of your skills except ones requiring talent trees to unlock, at all times. But my brother plays, and I’m 90% certain he never uses more than 5 unique skills during combat on the majority of his characters.

I know its a age old suggestion now, even to where anet have actually said its something they consider, but wont confirm/deny it… But id seriously love to see an extra set or two of weapon skills in the future.
Im talking utility skill style choice with your weapon set. Im very happy at the current max amount available while fighting, but i feel anet could easily add depth to the system and give the players more choice within their own build.
Could increase the feeling of team synergy aswell with min/max building aswell… Having a few players pick full dps skills where a full time supports would have a set of 5 support abilities.
Would cull a hell of alot of complaints in my opinion.

The Spiral King.2483:

Noviere.7309:

One of the things that drove me away from WOW and SWTOR was the ridiculous number of abilities.

How are options a negative point in a game? I never played either one of those, but in GW1, a massive chunk of the fun was the number and synergy of all the skills in the game. Better yet, your entire bar was customizable, so you weren’t stuck with unchangeable attack skills and a paltry number of utility and elite skills.

In real life humans will only use so many keys to play games or work other things. You will also find that ppl tend to use the buttons and ability they know. There are games like LoL whom have qwefg keys or how ever you put it even with the 1-6 keys for items that have ability (rarely do ppl use all 6) but this game still has a high level of depth and complexity to it. This is where gaming is going to have 20+ ability on one screen is way too much for a human to read and is simply unfun to play with it becomes a hit all the buttons that are not on cd and it tends to push the game less about action of what going on but more of a contest with your ability to hit buttons.

Any way GW2 has more then 1-10 skills there the weapon switch for passably 5 more there the F1-F4 skills there is also transform ability that give you more skills (mix of numbers) there also ability that are “IF your in this field then your ability also dose this.” There a lot of items you can use in mostly pve that can changes up fights. There ability from the environment during pve events even WvW and some Spvp.

I think of it this way your a person with a sword and a shield there only so much you can do with these weapons you can draw another weapon but you can only hold so many on you at one time you can use your “class” ability or what you may know to help your fighting skills you can also use the environment to give your self more power in a fight. I am looking at this as if it was real life not some game where you can call any ability you want when you want from some nowhere places.

I think the problem lies in the enemy encounters, not the skill system itself. The open world pve is supposed to be focused on easy encounters, but most of the dungeons, where difficult content is supposed to lie, don’t really encourage you to utilize all of your skills.

The revamped AC imo is full of great encounters. I play as a guardian and I find myself having to use knockbacks, protections, heals, condi removals, stability, retal, and blocks. Sure a majority of the fights can be DPSed down after a few minutes, but using a well timed block or interrupt can be the one thing preventing you from a wipe.

This is different from other MMOs where the combat is rotation based. You have to use your skills in a particular order to be efficient. I think ANet’s intention was to have a skill system that must be used to adapt to constantly changing situations. The boss is about to unleash a series of room wide AOEs? I can interrupt it, protect my allies from the damage, remove the condition the attack applies if they do take damage, or teleport to them if they go down so I can res them quickly. There are only a few encounters with this level of depth, forcing you to think quickly on your feet and to analyze what each ability will provide for you in the fight. And it really is a shame, but ANet needs to fix their dungeons and enemy encounters, not their skill system.

Shootsfoot.9276:

I like the 5 skills slots per weapon. I just wish there were, say, 15 skills per weapon to choose from to put into those 5 skill slots.

They cannot even balance the skills we already have. It would just boil down to one set of skills everybody uses because they’re the most powerful ones. They’d better work on fixing the ones that already exist, considering many of them aren’t working properly since release.

I like the skills system in this game. When I left rift I had a 13 skill rotation…lol. I got sooo sick of that, I just wanted a game that I can relax and play not worry about min/max and ridiculously long rotations. There are not a ton of skills in this game, no huge rotations, no min/max. But you actually have to play, you can’t just stand and spam skills.

Mathias.9657:

Wolfheart.1938:

Mathias.9657:

hilariously enough it is usually the best DPS as well.

DPS rotations are boring and unnecessary. They don’t add anything fun or engaging to the gameplay. Why do you feel that having 4 (filler) skills that have to be used in a particular order to be of any use?

Synergy is more entertaining to me than sitting there having my auto attack do a rotation, and yes they have a built in rotation. It’s just less engaging.

There is never a be all end all rotation that you do every time. GW2 definitely has rotations they are just hidden well. Thief: autoattack until revealed done, stealth backstab repeat. Mes: get clones up, shatter. I could go on, but you get my point. I could even go so far as to point out the amazing builds like unicorn sin that just spams 3 and autoattack, 2 buttons not counting the occasional caltrops and dodge.

It surprises me (and it doesn’t) that the vast majority of players don’t use Combo Finishers when they’re available. They add a lot to the effectiveness of attacks and adds a different dynamic for each class/weapon.

phokus.8934:

Mathias.9657:

Wolfheart.1938:

Mathias.9657:

hilariously enough it is usually the best DPS as well.

DPS rotations are boring and unnecessary. They don’t add anything fun or engaging to the gameplay. Why do you feel that having 4 (filler) skills that have to be used in a particular order to be of any use?

Synergy is more entertaining to me than sitting there having my auto attack do a rotation, and yes they have a built in rotation. It’s just less engaging.

There is never a be all end all rotation that you do every time. GW2 definitely has rotations they are just hidden well. Thief: autoattack until revealed done, stealth backstab repeat. Mes: get clones up, shatter. I could go on, but you get my point. I could even go so far as to point out the amazing builds like unicorn sin that just spams 3 and autoattack, 2 buttons not counting the occasional caltrops and dodge.

It surprises me (and it doesn’t) that the vast majority of players don’t use Combo Finishers when they’re available. They add a lot to the effectiveness of attacks and adds a different dynamic for each class/weapon.

I agree, alot of people dont utilise this at all.
My rotations usually depend on combo fields as a priority. If i see a combo field up, i will adjust my skill choice as to a combo finisher. Visa versa in cases where i see allies popping finishers all the time, i will throw some fields out in accordance.

Gw2 is all about reading the situation and environment, and using each to gain an advantage. A big difference in comparison to other MMOs.. A player using perfect skill rotation would be destroyed by someone with perfect situational awareness.

Allow me to show you the abilities i used in wow on my enchantment shaman(Wrath).
6 buttons. 5 since one is just to place totems.

Now compared to my charr engineer with 5 buttons just on my rifle + 5 on my flame thrower + my heal + my elite and 2 potions and my 4 tool belt skills. Yeh, Guild Wars 2 has ALOT more flexibility in combat then my shaman ever had.

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

I know its a age old suggestion now, even to where anet have actually said its something they consider, but wont confirm/deny it… But id seriously love to see an extra set or two of weapon skills in the future.
Im talking utility skill style choice with your weapon set. Im very happy at the current max amount available while fighting, but i feel anet could easily add depth to the system and give the players more choice within their own build.
Could increase the feeling of team synergy aswell with min/max building aswell… Having a few players pick full dps skills where a full time supports would have a set of 5 support abilities.
Would cull a hell of alot of complaints in my opinion.

Agreed.

I think they should be split in groups, so:
Skill #1 (auto) – a choice of two different auto attacks
Skills #2 and #3 – 2 additional options (so 4 skills you can mix and match)
Skills #4 and #5 – 2 additional options (longer cooldowns, choice of 2 out of 4 skills).

At least that would be a start, and allow grouping/splitting skills for MH/OH weapons sets as well as two handed sets.

Curunen.8729:

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

I know its a age old suggestion now, even to where anet have actually said its something they consider, but wont confirm/deny it… But id seriously love to see an extra set or two of weapon skills in the future.
Im talking utility skill style choice with your weapon set. Im very happy at the current max amount available while fighting, but i feel anet could easily add depth to the system and give the players more choice within their own build.
Could increase the feeling of team synergy aswell with min/max building aswell… Having a few players pick full dps skills where a full time supports would have a set of 5 support abilities.
Would cull a hell of alot of complaints in my opinion.

Agreed.

I think they should be split in groups, so:
Skill #1 (auto) – a choice of two different auto attacks
Skills #2 and #3 – 2 additional options (so 4 skills you can mix and match)
Skills #4 and #5 – 2 additional options (longer cooldowns, choice of 2 out of 4 skills).

At least that would be a start, and allow grouping/splitting skills for MH/OH weapons sets as well as two handed sets.

Iv thought long and hard about grouping skills or tiering them.
While there obviouisly going to be alot easier to balance, i cant see how a company that succeeded in balancing thousands of optional skills cannot balance a complete choice of skills for your weapon.
Tiered skills would still give more depth, but with a complete choice you can really get into building for team synergy. As i said before it would allow min and max gameplay like other games, yet still have the gw2 freedom of ‘whatever you wanna bring to the table is cool for everyone else’ mentality.

I remember when i though GW2 was simple until I realized that every damage skill has a utility portion as well.

I remember when I used abilities for damage instead of damage mitigation. I remember when I was clueless and didn’t understand that you’re not supposed to cycle skills, but instead use them situationally.

Xta.7458:

Another thing – you dont need tankers/healers in pve, u also cant see the dps of the group
so how you tell which player is good in pve or bad?
how can you tell this group will do X doungen much faster then Y group?

I really wouldn’t worry too much about this. The PvE in this game is so bad that most dungeons follow the line of “skip this, glitch that, skip this, glitch that” through the entire run. If it actually had good PvE, the lack of dedicated tanks and healers would be a massive hindrance. Just level to 80 ASAP, and head out to WvWvW. The good news is, that with no subscription fee, you can always take a break and do something else for a few months then come back.

phokus.8934:

Mathias.9657:

Wolfheart.1938:

Mathias.9657:

hilariously enough it is usually the best DPS as well.

DPS rotations are boring and unnecessary. They don’t add anything fun or engaging to the gameplay. Why do you feel that having 4 (filler) skills that have to be used in a particular order to be of any use?

Synergy is more entertaining to me than sitting there having my auto attack do a rotation, and yes they have a built in rotation. It’s just less engaging.

There is never a be all end all rotation that you do every time. GW2 definitely has rotations they are just hidden well. Thief: autoattack until revealed done, stealth backstab repeat. Mes: get clones up, shatter. I could go on, but you get my point. I could even go so far as to point out the amazing builds like unicorn sin that just spams 3 and autoattack, 2 buttons not counting the occasional caltrops and dodge.

It surprises me (and it doesn’t) that the vast majority of players don’t use Combo Finishers when they’re available. They add a lot to the effectiveness of attacks and adds a different dynamic for each class/weapon.

Most combo finishers are very, very weak and the only useful ones are splash heal and might stack. 90% of the time your typical DPS rotation would be better. You think getting a fire shield or fire bolts on my thief would be more beneficial than another backstab/autoattack? Lol no way, that stuff is useless. Fields need a massive buff to them to be worth using at least in the damage catagory. At current they add almost nothing to the game except screen clutter besides the two I mentioned.

Iruwen.3164:

Shootsfoot.9276:

I like the 5 skills slots per weapon. I just wish there were, say, 15 skills per weapon to choose from to put into those 5 skill slots.

They cannot even balance the skills we already have. It would just boil down to one set of skills everybody uses because they’re the most powerful ones. They’d better work on fixing the ones that already exist, considering many of them aren’t working properly since release.

If that’s the case, why isn’t everybody using the same traits?

The “everybody will use the most powerful skill” argument is a worn out one. It’s just not the case. Traits show that.

And this argument for “balance” just makes me shake my head. People whine about nerfs, they whine about buffs, they whine about everything.

If we truly want balance, have one class and 10 spells.

There, balanced.

I had this exact same problem when playing a Warrior, I chose that profession since it had the most weapons (and therefor the most different combat skills), but combat still quickly became very repetitive and boring. I left the game after hitting 80 and rerolling several other professions, all with the same problem.

I recently came back and rerolled a thief, and just recently hit 80. The combat is actually fun, I mostly dual-wield pistol, dual-wield dagger for multiple enemies in close proximity, and use the short-bow for attacking castles in WvW…

Anet could make things MUCH more diverse if they gave weapons like 7-8 different skills each and then allowed us to customize our 1-5 buttons the same way they allow us to customize 7-10… It would be alot of work to balance but I really hope they do this (or have some other plan for addressing this issue).

Rofl the skills in this game are not deep or complex, Press 1 2 4 5 3 occasional elite and keep moving with the odd dodge here and there, wow that’s deep and complex….

Mathias.9657:

Mathias.9657:

Wolfheart.1938:

Mathias.9657:

hilariously enough it is usually the best DPS as well.

DPS rotations are boring and unnecessary. They don’t add anything fun or engaging to the gameplay. Why do you feel that having 4 (filler) skills that have to be used in a particular order to be of any use?

Synergy is more entertaining to me than sitting there having my auto attack do a rotation, and yes they have a built in rotation. It’s just less engaging.

There is never a be all end all rotation that you do every time. GW2 definitely has rotations they are just hidden well. Thief: autoattack until revealed done, stealth backstab repeat. Mes: get clones up, shatter. I could go on, but you get my point. I could even go so far as to point out the amazing builds like unicorn sin that just spams 3 and autoattack, 2 buttons not counting the occasional caltrops and dodge.

It surprises me (and it doesn’t) that the vast majority of players don’t use Combo Finishers when they’re available. They add a lot to the effectiveness of attacks and adds a different dynamic for each class/weapon.

My ping time doesn’t allow me to proc combo finishers, I’m Aussie , by the time i try its gone and over, can’t even get Engi heal turret to do its aoe heal fast enough when i explode it…so i gave up trying..

Im sorry, but as a veteran WoW player and competitive PvP mage, there arnt many buttons you dont use in Competitive PvP, high end players use everything, From a Arcane missles (as frost or fire spec) to slow fall, really the only skills i didnt use as a mage in combat were summon portals…

Every ability had its place, saying that they dont use the majority of skills is utter nonesence.

And by the way, i have aussie latency to, It shouldn’t be a problem unless your up against the best of the best, there may be other problems with your latency.

The ultimate goal of the game isn’t to have every skill available to the player. it’s to allow the player to build their character as they want to fit their playstyle, for them to find synergies between skills with a limited amount of choice in what they can take with them.

To me, this adds more depth and requires more forethought (providing you aren’t Googling your builds) than if you have every skill available to you at all times.

Let’s not forget they will eventually add weapons and skills. But first they should make some of the skills they have now more of an option, before they do that. It’ll be like having more skills.

Some of the boredom from me comes from the way the weapon sets were set up. This is the range set. This is you mid range set. This is your melee set. This is your condition set. This is you AOE set.

I know some classes have more of one and less of another, but there needs to be more of across all classes.

Xta.7458:

Hey guys, so i came from WOW to gw2, and like it saw far.. everything is new to me and its great. gfx is AMAZING :O

Anyway, 1 thing that bothers me is the amount of abilities on each char’

for example, with my guardian now (greatsword) i have 4 abilities that hits mybe with a side effect and a grab(cc) ability.. and ofcurse 3-4 more from the one i choose my self..

as a hunter in wow – 3 full bars (3X10) abilities that i just use in fight, and 5-7 more less common.

i just feel that i allways repeat the same buttons..

So please, tell me, is it feel like that at 80? classes gets more deep?
and for ex wow players – esp’ in pvp – what did u like here more then wow?

i need some motivation guys, help me with that.

Sagi.

Abilities are basically the same between levels 30-80. Combine this with uninteresting PvE, and you’ll begin to understand why so many people would rather craft their way through levels on their alts.

Your experience is a common one. I remember when I first started playing GW2, I made a post on the forums about how I was going to enjoy this game for years. Then I played a little longer and, as the lack of polish in later areas became apparent, the game became so boring I, along with my entire guild, quit for several months. A few of us are back now, but they are already burning out again, after just a few weeks. Lack of quality skill design is a major component.

Is it deeper than WoW? Not really, which is a sad result considering everything the designers could have learned about the failures of that game. This game shipped too early in order to beat MoP and we’re still seeing the results of that business decision today. PvE combat is shallow, centered around dps and invulnerability frames. Dungeons were rushed and bosses given the Defiant band-aid to prevent control from being too powerful. As a result, damage trumps everything. It’s an insipid bore.

As an ex-WoW player (vanilla and BC only), the PvP here is shallow as well. It can be fun, but there’s no strategic depth to keep lasting interest. It certainly hasn’t kept my interest as much as WoW’s PvP did, which I never thought I’d say. WvW is a step in the right direction, but it falls short with its reliance on zerging and AoE caps (causing counter-intuitive play with limited strategic options) and insufficient meaningful bonuses for the servers that win matchups.

In order to accomplish anything significant, Anet needs to implement new mechanics and return to their manifesto regarding control, support and damage roles. Dps-only fights are stale.

The game has some serious defects, and little has been done to change them since launch. There is little motivation for Anet to make changes to design as well, since their money comes from casuals and whales who frequent the cash shop and buy those unethical RNG boxes.

You should keep tabs on this game and see what happens as the slew of new MMOs come out. It hope that will bring about serious focus on the design of mechanics. If not, there are a lot of players looking for an MMO that has both competently designed PvP and engaging, interesting PvE.

Im not a WoW player or something, but ill share my oppinion anyway.
I spent over 1600 hours on both of y mesmers, and i can happily say that i neer got bored because of the amount of skills available. Even now i havent hitthe skill cap, every day im still learning and trying to improve myself.
The difference between gw2 and other mmos (i did play some mmos with trinities and stuff) is that in gw2 its not which gear or skills you use, but how you use them!
My advice: go play some structured pvp, youll notice everyone has acces to all traits, skills, and gear, but there will still be people who are better than others. This is because theyre sinply more skilled, theres no gear grinding or whateer required. All it takes to become good is alot of self evaluation and practice!
Thats what i love so much about gw2 <3
TL;DR: gw2 is more deep than it may seem, its very skill based and not based on grinding or equipment. Go to Spvp to fight people with the same gear and traits available, and see hoe skill based it is

Cheers,
Alissah

Hopefully, they will add more weapon skills (maybe 1 set of new skills every weapon excluding auto attack) and would act like utilities, only allowing change when out of combat.

This way it.would diversify a lot of builds, create new ones, and be a lot like it’s older brother gw1

Anyway they said fewer skills = less to balance too :-)

I believe your points are valid, OP. The reduced skill bar can be a concern for a new player, but is definitely not a new concern.

Coming from a WoW and GW1 background, I did not play certain professions in WoW because their skill rotation could be simplified to a grand total of 4 buttons.

Many players have voiced their opinions on the forums that a broader skill base would greatly benefit this game. When talking about weapon swaps and skill traits, the word “synergy” (or lack there-of) pops up now and again. Some skills that have a significant impact on the battlefield seem to have very long cooldowns; which is fine, but is aggrivating when you have a reduced skill bar to start with. The combo system has the potential to add great amounts of depth and strategic play. However, the buffs/debuffs provided by the combos typically dont last long enough to make much of a difference to go out of your way for, IMHO. One exception being the ranger healing spring.

I don’t want to sound all bad… the ANET team is doing great things with the content they’re releasing every month. It seems they have great creativity and imagination.

Currently, I have found that an Axe/Mace – Axe/Axe warrior provides enough synergy to get me by for the moment. It costs me nothing to play. I do have my eye open for other things coming up on the horizon.

spell check not included

The idea is that you have to make conscious desicions about how you want to spec, what tools to bring, which to leave at home. This constitutes a build in GW2 and allows for variety rather than “every hunter is the same.” You have to pick & choose which skills you bring for maximum effect, and which sacrifices you can make and then tailor you playstyle accordingly. It’s different at first, but soon makes sense as you experiment with various builds and unlock more traits/skills.

Also, traits a more important than you think. Learning how they synergize is fun and eye-opening. The next patch at the month’s end will supposedly be making a lot of improvements to the existing trait trees.

Seras.5702:

The idea is that you have to make conscious desicions about how you want to spec, what tools to bring, which to leave at home. This constitutes a build in GW2 and allows for variety rather than “every hunter is the same.” You have to pick & choose which skills you bring for maximum effect, and which sacrifices you can make and then tailor you playstyle accordingly. It’s different at first, but soon makes sense as you experiment with various builds and unlock more traits/skills.

This is pretty standard for most MMOs… I have no problems with the basics on how the system works. I am simply pointing out that to me, GW2 is more simplified in its execution versus other games I’ve played.

Seras.5702:

Also, traits a more important than you think. Learning how they synergize is fun and eye-opening.

Sounds like you’re playing a different game than me, lol.

Seras.5702:

The next patch at the month’s end will supposedly be making a lot of improvements to the existing trait trees.

I certainly hope so.

JSmooth.7654:

Seras.5702:

The idea is that you have to make conscious desicions about how you want to spec, what tools to bring, which to leave at home. This constitutes a build in GW2 and allows for variety rather than “every hunter is the same.” You have to pick & choose which skills you bring for maximum effect, and which sacrifices you can make and then tailor you playstyle accordingly. It’s different at first, but soon makes sense as you experiment with various builds and unlock more traits/skills.

This is pretty standard for most MMOs… I have no problems with the basics on how the system works. I am simply pointing out that to me, GW2 is more simplified in its execution versus other games I’ve played.

I’d argue it isn’t standard for MMO’s, considering most allow you to have access to ALL of your abilities at any given time vs having to pick your skills to synergise.

Although, in comparison to GW and TSW, it is simplified in the respect skills don’t synergise on a deeper level (skill does this, skill does something else if condition is met).

JSmooth.7654:

Seras.5702:

Also, traits a more important than you think. Learning how they synergize is fun and eye-opening.

Sounds like you’re playing a different game than me, lol.

They’re important for defining your playstyle. If you play a Greatsword Warrior who focuses on damage, you’re going to be picking different traits compared to a Hammer Warrior who focuses on, say, utility.

Not enough skills peroid.

30 skills should be the BARE minimum.

Yes the number of skills directly determines the difficulty or ease of play of any proffession, if you think otherwise your kidding yourself.

Xta.7458:

So what keeps you in game?
i allways liked that i have lots of options in the heat of battle..
to go fully offensive or change to def’ in seconds… that i have abilities agaits X
and abilities agaits Y..

right now i feel i use the main attack (1) while keeping the rest (2) damage abilities on CD.
its just really bothers me, because outside of that, the game is really looks great, i just afraid that i will get bored fast after X time of doing the same.

Funny you should say that. After playing GW2 for a while I am now bored to tears playing WoW or other tabtarget combat games. There’s no going back for me for sure.

Don’t let the daily forum warriors scare you off. Almost everything stated on the forums are a hyperbole, and the game itself will tell you exactly how it is. I encourage you to play around with the different skill combinations; choosing the right skills for your build is part of the challenge. You don’t have 100 skills like you could in WoW, you now have 10. It’s up to you to determine how to best utilize those 10 skills.

Anet has stated they’ll be adding more skills and traits in the future, and not some fuzzy distant future either…this year.

But limited skills don’t really bother me, because when I played Rift I only used a tiny percentage of the skills anyway, and most of those were macroed.

More skills doesn’t necessarily equal more fun.

I remember playing WoW with it’s “abundance” of abilities.

I set up one of those drinking birds on my keyboard to hit the 1 key for me repeatedly. Then I made a sandwich. That was WoW.

Wow-killer mmo specs
1) have three times as many skills as wow
2) three times longer running raids
3) protection against casual gamers with single monitors and no gaming mice
joke aside, keep playing. not every game is for everyone and probably for wow-veterans who feel very invested in their skill bar/macro/mod/gear set ups, this game with little barrier to entry may not look as deep but it’s a different style. For $0/month, there’s a lot to enjoy here for some time to come and the community is great.

pyrotikk.4620:

Not enough skills peroid.

30 skills should be the BARE minimum.

Yes the number of skills directly determines the difficulty or ease of play of any proffession, if you think otherwise your kidding yourself.

Not sure if troll…

Skills that you use only in PvP or PvE just clutter your screen. Filler skill that you just use in a rotation or once a week are just that, filler. Orianna has the same number of skills that Master Yi has (I’m talking about LoL), so by your logic they are equally as difficult to play. LOL. I could go on…

I’m totally for more options with the introduction of more weapons/utilities, but the limit of 10 skills available at the same time is what this game is designed around and it’s definitely not gonna change when it works for a lot of players.