Obtaining Gift of Battle

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Posted by: Hexinx.1872

Hexinx.1872

I’d also like an alternate way of obtaining the Gift of Exploration in PvE. It would be great if i could unlock that in 8.5 hours through say meta boss trains or something. The way it is in it’s current form is just not adequate for someone who has no interest in mind numbing hearts, vistas, poi’s hero challenges and waypoints. I feel like i spend more time running around in circles than anything else.

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Posted by: Dinks.2478

Dinks.2478

OP prefers PvE?

1) Go to EOTM
2) Board the snooze-fest k-train
3) Eventually get your gift of battle

It’s basically PvE… sadly… that or PvDoor when the enemy is asleep. I still question how you can’t stand WvW. Big fights can take your mind off the actual lengthy wait of the reward track and you’ll be helping your server buddies out, too. Plus bagsssss!

Because not everybody is on a T1 or T2 server? When you spend week after week being outnumbered and getting zerg stomped you realize how entirely reliant on numbers WvW is. You also realize that zerg fights are 99% numbers and 1% placement.

I have to grind camps and dolyaks solo to keep up even partial participation and if a zerg spots me I am dead. Its a terrible gamemode that anet as refused to balance since day 1. In the early days of WvW it was pointed out that it was not balanced and anets response was to say that it wasn’t meant to be balanced. A lot of us took that for the cop out it most definitely was. Even so I continued to WvW for a few months. All of that WvW was worthless because anet has made the reward currency from then worthless with the badge change.

Then maybe it’s time to move servers or find a guild so you can make things easier for yourself? Afterwards, you can always transfer back.

If you are worried about participation I believe if you hit the max participation you can just wait it out somewhere; SMC for example and watch TV or something whilst it ticks away at 100% giving full participation. Lazy, yes, but it works.

You are right in a particular area – WvW has terrible balance, especially when it comes to population balance and numbers. It’s difficult to balance a game regarding coverage when it’s a global one played 24/7. Sometimes players need to shift around to help their own selves… it’s a shame it also leads to bandwagoning etc. Nothing is perfect, this is sad.

T1 and T2 servers are always full, not to mention transfer are expensive.

Also you need to stay active or you’ll lose participation, which I understand is not forgiving in WvW. As far as if you could AFK which I’m sure you can why would you make a change that encourages that?

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Posted by: Tumult.2578

Tumult.2578

And the best way to reinvigorate a dead game mode is to try and fill it with players who absolutely hate being there.

I’m NOT ok with this and my spending habits make that clear. If they don’t deal with this soon, their shot at my money will be gone.

But you have to understand that throwing a tantrum only makes the game more boring if they give in. I’d rather see you go than give you a legendary because you just want to avoid something you don’t want to do.

Because where does that end?

You cant be serious. Why must everyone only have your opinion of what is boring? What tantrum? Your statement is just as much a tantrum if not more.
My statement is accurate and my spending position has been determined over the long term.

Personally I enjoy cooperative PvE. Frankly, there is no game without it.
WvW is a long forgotten joke and if you have any experience with it, you’d know that. It’s been ignored by the Devs since the start.

It must be upsetting to know that I played and hated WvW enough to have several Legendary weapons already and the ability to go out and buy many more with coin earned in game. Playing WvW to attain a legendary weapon is doing it the very hard way now.

To answer your question, it ends with all the hardcore players leaving and the game becoming much more fun and more profitable, or it ends because of a lack of players. It was foolish to think they could keep you constantly happy with more and more and more difficult content. It’s not the same Devs that made this game. There’s too much of the original game they can’t change. This will become apparent to you soon if they continue trying to lock progress behind failed game modes.

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Posted by: slamfunction.7462

slamfunction.7462

Gift of Battle took me 2 weeks to get, playing WvW SUPER casually. Like maybe 30-40 minutes a night. On the other hand, Gift of Maguuma took me 4-6 months, and this was trying to map the zones, get help with the HPs, do the metas, and etc, etc 5 nights a week at 2+ hours. I would say that ANet is definitely giving us the better deal of the Gift of Battle. lol

Arena Nets are used to catch Gladiator Fish.

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Posted by: Fat Disgrace.4275

Fat Disgrace.4275

dear anet, please can we have an alternative for gift of exploration. me, like many others don’t want to spend time exploring maps.

Fat Disgrace (banned) Man Flu Survivor – war/The Cabbage -Thief (gunners hold / [TaG])

gw1 – healing signet/frenzy/charge

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Posted by: Cristalyan.5728

Cristalyan.5728

Illconceived Was Na.9781

Rather than nitpicking my phrasing, how about you offer your own idea for how to go about convincing ANet to change things?

I don’t think we can influence the way ANet changes the game before the change. The lack of willingness to hear what the players wants is very close to autism. The only way ANet can be motivated to follow (on a reduced scale still) the players feedback is something as bad as the last Quarterly Sales report. They already considers themselves a BIG Company. And they know everything. And because:
1. They know everything.
2. The game is ANet property
3. They want the best for the business,
Then
4. Third party opinion is not needed (even if that third party is the players community).
I dont think we can find a way to make ANet to acknowledge the players feedback other than to ignore the sales for this game for a period. Being business persons, they are affected only by numbers and not by words. Numbers followed by the symbol “$”.
Still, to answer the question:
I think that any QoL change should be announced weeks before. And the players opinion should be asked in a thread on this forum. Too many negative opinion should make ANet to ask the players for an altenative way to implement that change. In this way ANet is searching for a way to reach its goal and not the players – the players can help in this action more than any “I know everything and I don’t need another opinion” person can imagine. But only if ANet brings its intention into the players attention. Without knowing what ANet wants the payers can react only after the implementation
A QoL change = changing the way of acquiring something / changing a recipe / changing the drop ratio for an item (material) etc.
With a direct reference to the subject of this post: A post on this forum regarding the intention to change the way of acquiring the GoB was needed. With the participation of devs and the person who ordered/suggested the change. Explaining why this is a better way. Why the game will be better with this change. And what benefits the players can have. And to answer to all the questions. Answering why they consider better for the game that the players will have all the efforts to gain WvW tokens nullified. And why is better to don’t have the vendor for one or two more weeks in WvW in parralel with the new method.

Not necessary to be subject of debate the balancing changes – the developers should know more about any race and class than the majority of players.

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

Honestly it makes a lot of sense to have the “gift” that’s tied to WvW be earned via a reward track than badges once badges started to drop from other activities.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

You can play how you like. You just can’t get the wvw stuff unless you do some wvw. Nobody is making you play wvw.
But wait you say.. legendaries require wvw components! So play without a legendary then…

I think the problem here is that in your instance:
I love wvw (not really but we’re pretending)
You are “forced” to do wvw.
You believe I will be mad you are forced to play alongside me.
You are wrong. If you are my enemy I enjoy killing you, if you are my ally I enjoy the assist capturing keeps.
Maybe you’ll even realise that wvw with a group is actually quite good fun!

Or you can just be mad at the game, I don’t really care. I just got on with it, got what I needed and am back enjoying PvE with my legendary.

I wouldn’t be mad if it was changed so you didn’t need a wvw component. I’m not going to sit around waiting for that change however.. ymmv.

With the new Mastery system, it isn’t true that you can simply play as you like without consequence to your character. However to stay on-topic, it is true that if you don’t like WvW you can simply go without a Legendary weapon. I am simply questioning the strategy of locking the flashiest item that is probably desired by the most players behind a niche game mode that not everyone wants to play.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

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Posted by: Dragon.8762

Dragon.8762

To be fair, many WvW only players or Pvp only players don’t like the pve aspect they have to go through in order to obtain the legendary themselves. So the dislike is pretty much a circle.

As for the gift of battle only being in WvW, I’m in-different about such a change. I mean, I just got another one yesterday and it only took like 6-5 hours of total game time over the course of a few days. WvW boosters work fine, along side the dailies. Plus it was fun. I think this change gives a good reason to venture forth into WvW in the first place.

If another way is created to obtain the gift of battle, I can easily see even less people going in there. And besides, isn’t the purpose of getting the best weapon in the game supposed to be, you know….difficult? In truth tho, its really not. Just takes some time.

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Posted by: lcpdragonslayer.7895

lcpdragonslayer.7895

A bit of a cheeky suggestion but I’ve done the gift of battle reward track once before. It’d be nice if once you have it ‘unlocked’ you could buy it with badges or something.

I’m dreading running it again, but that’s partly to do with how I went ~7 hours straight to get it the first time. This time I’ll space it out better.

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Posted by: Crossaber.8934

Crossaber.8934

I hated wvw before, i hated being zerg down.

Since the daily changed, i have to go wvw for fast dailies. I have earned some wvw ranking, i never won any 1v1 before rank 60.

But now i am rank 188, and i have joined a wvw guild and i even transfered to a lower populated server to play with them. I play wvw now.

I will never found out i love wvw if i wasn’t forced to play it for dailies.

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Posted by: Loop.8106

Loop.8106

With the new Mastery system, it isn’t true that you can simply play as you like without consequence to your character. However to stay on-topic, it is true that if you don’t like WvW you can simply go without a Legendary weapon. I am simply questioning the strategy of locking the flashiest item that is probably desired by the most players behind a niche game mode that not everyone wants to play.

The thing is. I can’t play without a legendary item. I’m part of the niche community that is still doing dungeon speedruns and records. Hence I need a legendary weapon. (Until they fix the legendary scaling in dungeons.)
Right now, a legendary weapon in AC deals about 32% more dps than an ascended. In TA its about 10%, which is still more than enough to make a HUGE difference. Especially in solos and duos.

I’d be absolutly delighted if I didnt need to go for a legendary. But right now I actually do in order to stay competetive.

Optimise [OP]

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Posted by: BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

How do they scale differently when they have the exact same stats? The only difference being stat swapping and skins?

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Posted by: JPUlisses.8756

JPUlisses.8756

WvW was always the icon of GW2
and you don’t want to play it…

sure WvW needs some updates now, but it is still one of the best things to do in a MMORPG nowadays.

Besides they warned about this, and you could have bought tons of cheap Gifts of Battle for 500 badges.

The same thing goes for gift of PvP and gift of PvE and gift of Exploration, why would you change the easiest one(WvW)? lol.

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Posted by: Loop.8106

Loop.8106

How do they scale differently when they have the exact same stats? The only difference being stat swapping and skins?

There is a bug currently, and has been for the past 6-7 months where legendary weapons dont downscale properly. If you own one, just go try it out.

Optimise [OP]

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Posted by: BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

I don’t own one and never knew of this bug, that is interesting to say the least.

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Posted by: Cameron.4932

Cameron.4932

How do they scale differently when they have the exact same stats? The only difference being stat swapping and skins?

There is a bug currently, and has been for the past 6-7 months where legendary weapons dont downscale properly. If you own one, just go try it out.

So you NEED a Legendary to take advantage of an exploit….

Way to make your case

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Posted by: Haleydawn.3764

Haleydawn.3764

How I see it is, Anet wants people to WvW for the Gift of Battle (obviously). They want to include some form of PvP while making a legendary.

By making it a reward track instead of a collection “To-do list”, you can do anything in WvW to progress the track. It’s probably far quicker to do the track than gain the badges, not done the maths here, but in the last month maybe of very casual WvW I’ve done 1 and a half of a reward track and barely scraped 500 badges. Which is a shame because I’d like a few more badges due to the discounted racial tier armor to finish the collections. :P

Kitten.

(edited by Haleydawn.3764)

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Posted by: Excelvior.8520

Excelvior.8520

Right now, a legendary weapon in AC deals about 32% more dps than an ascended. In TA its about 10%, which is still more than enough to make a HUGE difference. Especially in solos and duos.

wait, what????
I thought legendaries dealt equal dmg as ascended. Is this a scaling thing?

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Posted by: General Health.9678

General Health.9678

With the new Mastery system, it isn’t true that you can simply play as you like without consequence to your character. However to stay on-topic, it is true that if you don’t like WvW you can simply go without a Legendary weapon. I am simply questioning the strategy of locking the flashiest item that is probably desired by the most players behind a niche game mode that not everyone wants to play.

Well when the game was set up, the game mode wasn’t niche and everyone did want to play it.. it just hasn’t kept up somehow. There isn’t a way to prove your last statement, is it the flashiest item, is it desired by the most players, does nobody want to play it? Given that legendaries sell quite well on the TP whereas there are none of that chak egg sac thing that guy was ranting about yesterday.. and given how many invisible shoe threads get made.. I’d say there were flashier things.

I don’t disagree with you, I don’t want to wvw to get my next legendary but I will because that’s how you get the gift of battle for them. It isn’t a stress-inducing nightmare of a game mode (that would be SAB to me), just a bit boring. If you really want a legendary, just do enough a night until you get the gift and then don’t do any more. I’d support putting the vendor back and having a track.

Blame Abaddon, he loves your tears.
pve, raid, pvp, fractal, dungeon, world clearing, legendary questing.. Zapped!

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Posted by: Haleydawn.3764

Haleydawn.3764

What I would like is for the Gift of Battle track to run as a constant track with an optional reward of the Gift or something else (T6 materials?) alongside another track of our choosing. I’m currently trying to get Triumphant boxes in prep for making pieces of the Hero’s armor, so I don’t want to sacrifice one for the other.
Another would be to add the Battle track to PvP in the same concept.

Kitten.

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Posted by: Huttunen.8309

Huttunen.8309

Just pop an XP-booster, get the guild hall boost and go follow a train for five hours. If that is too much for someone I don’t think he should have the particles. It literally just took me two evenings of 2 – 3 hours of play to get the gift with the boosters on, so it’s not a big grind

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Posted by: Dinks.2478

Dinks.2478

Just pop an XP-booster, get the guild hall boost and go follow a train for five hours. If that is too much for someone I don’t think he should have the particles. It literally just took me two evenings of 2 – 3 hours of play to get the gift with the boosters on, so it’s not a big grind

It took me less time to craft all of my precursors than your suggested “not a big grind”. You’re asbsolute insane if you don’t think 5-6 hours of mind numbing zerging (especially when you lose because you’re not on a bandwagon server) is acceptable. Locking something behind an unbalanced broken gamemode when it had a perfectly good system prior is stupid.

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Posted by: Xevv.9175

Xevv.9175

I dont understand why people who like wvw are wanting it to stay like this.

You really want me to come in for 9 hours, largely be afk, and totally useless to the “team” while someone who wants to do wvw, and will contribute sits in a q waiting for a slot that Im essentially wasting?

I mean yea world completion sucks. And I feel for those who only want to pvp but want a legendary. But comparing that to this is just silly. You thinking making me do this makes it “fair” is just hurting you and your friends who actually care about wvw.

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Posted by: Kate Soulguard.7132

Kate Soulguard.7132

I would rather have been able to buy it with tokens like before. I’m working on a legendary now and see that the system has changed. I don’t understand why they changed it. Was it just to get more player involvement in wvw? I never saw the reasoning behind it.

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Posted by: EphemeralWallaby.7643

EphemeralWallaby.7643

I think the treadmill to finish the reward track is much preferable to the previous grind to get rank 14 wvw.

~EW

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Posted by: EphemeralWallaby.7643

EphemeralWallaby.7643

You really want me to come in for 9 hours, largely be afk, and totally useless to the “team” while someone who wants to do wvw, and will contribute sits in a q waiting for a slot that Im essentially wasting?

This situation reflects your poor attitude and participation in WvW, and not any intrinsic virtue/flaw in the system to obtain the GoB.

~EW

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Posted by: Dinks.2478

Dinks.2478

You really want me to come in for 9 hours, largely be afk, and totally useless to the “team” while someone who wants to do wvw, and will contribute sits in a q waiting for a slot that Im essentially wasting?

This situation reflects your poor attitude and participation in WvW, and not any intrinsic virtue/flaw in the system to obtain the GoB.

~EW

I highly disagree, it reflects the state of WvW and the reality that only a handful of servers are worth WvWing on. It reflects how poorly balanced WvW is and how poorly structured it is. It reflects how little people want to play it even when it is rewarding because the gamemode itself just isn’t good. If anything it reflects how wrong anet is to try and force people into it without fixing any of those issues.

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Posted by: EphemeralWallaby.7643

EphemeralWallaby.7643

I highly disagree, it reflects the state of WvW and the reality that only a handful of servers are worth WvWing on. It reflects how poorly balanced WvW is and how poorly structured it is. It reflects how little people want to play it even when it is rewarding because the gamemode itself just isn’t good. If anything it reflects how wrong anet is to try and force people into it without fixing any of those issues.

We are all capable of choosing our attitude in how we approach anything we do. It just requires preliminary consideration.

edit: the poster I quoted above demonstrates them choosing to do a 9 hour stint, choosing to be afk while doing it, choosing to bring in a build that’d be useless and unengaging to them, and ultimately choosing to participate in such a poor way with such a poor attitude that they’re admitting wasting the valuable map space they’re taking up. Those problems stem from their choices in how they’re approaching WvW to be engaging for them… not a problem with the reward track system.

~EW

(edited by EphemeralWallaby.7643)

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

With the new Mastery system, it isn’t true that you can simply play as you like without consequence to your character. However to stay on-topic, it is true that if you don’t like WvW you can simply go without a Legendary weapon. I am simply questioning the strategy of locking the flashiest item that is probably desired by the most players behind a niche game mode that not everyone wants to play.

The thing is. I can’t play without a legendary item. I’m part of the niche community that is still doing dungeon speedruns and records. Hence I need a legendary weapon. (Until they fix the legendary scaling in dungeons.)
Right now, a legendary weapon in AC deals about 32% more dps than an ascended. In TA its about 10%, which is still more than enough to make a HUGE difference. Especially in solos and duos.

I’d be absolutly delighted if I didnt need to go for a legendary. But right now I actually do in order to stay competetive.

No, you don’t need a legendary, you want a legendary to abuse a bug. You can play perfectly fine without one. And if ANet ever patches this bug then any speedrun records that abused it would no longer be valid and would no longer apply.

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Posted by: Xevv.9175

Xevv.9175

I highly disagree, it reflects the state of WvW and the reality that only a handful of servers are worth WvWing on. It reflects how poorly balanced WvW is and how poorly structured it is. It reflects how little people want to play it even when it is rewarding because the gamemode itself just isn’t good. If anything it reflects how wrong anet is to try and force people into it without fixing any of those issues.

We are all capable of choosing our attitude in how we approach anything we do. It just requires preliminary consideration.

edit: the poster I quoted above demonstrates them choosing to do a 9 hour stint, choosing to be afk while doing it, choosing to bring in a build that’d be useless and unengaging to them, and ultimately choosing to participate in such a poor way with such a poor attitude that they’re admitting wasting the valuable map space they’re taking up. Those problems stem from their choices in how they’re approaching WvW to be engaging for them… not a problem with the reward track system.

~EW

Yup thats how I choose to do it and many others Ive seen have done and are doing the exact same as I type this. Why do most of us choose that? Because the wvw is in a pitiful state as far as many are concerned. If you want to spend your time playing in that mess feel free. Forcing others into it as opposed to just fixing issues and making people actually want to play it isnt a good solution.

But thats how it currently is and as long as it is if I need a GoB I know how Im going to get one… You telling me I should like I should like wvw because you do isnt going to change a thing.

They can change it, leave it. I dont really care Ive got more than enough GoBs for myself. But personally I have no desire to do anything in this game or life with people who dont want to be doing it. Doing activities with people who dont want to be there is generally an unpleasant experience for all involved.

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Posted by: Seera.5916

Seera.5916

I highly disagree, it reflects the state of WvW and the reality that only a handful of servers are worth WvWing on. It reflects how poorly balanced WvW is and how poorly structured it is. It reflects how little people want to play it even when it is rewarding because the gamemode itself just isn’t good. If anything it reflects how wrong anet is to try and force people into it without fixing any of those issues.

We are all capable of choosing our attitude in how we approach anything we do. It just requires preliminary consideration.

edit: the poster I quoted above demonstrates them choosing to do a 9 hour stint, choosing to be afk while doing it, choosing to bring in a build that’d be useless and unengaging to them, and ultimately choosing to participate in such a poor way with such a poor attitude that they’re admitting wasting the valuable map space they’re taking up. Those problems stem from their choices in how they’re approaching WvW to be engaging for them… not a problem with the reward track system.

~EW

I don’t know about others, but I don’t want to shell out 10+ gold and spend time figuring out a WvW build for just 5-9 hours of game play. Even less so if I happened to not like WvW at all. Granted, I wouldn’t be afk while doing it and ibwould be actively trying to find the most efficient way for me to get the track field quickly.

However, I do think the gift of battle should require either WvW or PvP to obtain.

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Posted by: Dinks.2478

Dinks.2478

I highly disagree, it reflects the state of WvW and the reality that only a handful of servers are worth WvWing on. It reflects how poorly balanced WvW is and how poorly structured it is. It reflects how little people want to play it even when it is rewarding because the gamemode itself just isn’t good. If anything it reflects how wrong anet is to try and force people into it without fixing any of those issues.

We are all capable of choosing our attitude in how we approach anything we do. It just requires preliminary consideration.

edit: the poster I quoted above demonstrates them choosing to do a 9 hour stint, choosing to be afk while doing it, choosing to bring in a build that’d be useless and unengaging to them, and ultimately choosing to participate in such a poor way with such a poor attitude that they’re admitting wasting the valuable map space they’re taking up. Those problems stem from their choices in how they’re approaching WvW to be engaging for them… not a problem with the reward track system.

~EW

I don’t know about others, but I don’t want to shell out 10+ gold and spend time figuring out a WvW build for just 5-9 hours of game play. Even less so if I happened to not like WvW at all. Granted, I wouldn’t be afk while doing it and ibwould be actively trying to find the most efficient way for me to get the track field quickly.

However, I do think the gift of battle should require either WvW or PvP to obtain.

I actually wouldn’t mind PvPing for GoB as it is something they at least attempt to balance and seem to put an actual amount of effort into.

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Posted by: AzureWolf.9150

AzureWolf.9150

But having to run around in a blob with 40 other people for 6 hours is just mind-numbing.

You don’t have to run with a blob. You can do stuff on your own or run around with a small group of people. Who knows, maybe you’ll even have fun doing that.

I’ve PvP’d in other games and I’ve always been on the fence about it….and my GF absolutely loathes PvP… (and I do mean loathe) but we both wanted the Gift of Battle so we went in with our rangers (also hoping to find the wolf you can only get in WvW).

To our surprise….we did have fun. Those that don’t like PvP shouldn’t judge WvW until you’ve tried it. Yes, there a parts that are like other PvP, but the “feel” of it is very different here. First off, a huge plus is that all your opponents are not named…. they are just “Server Name Squire” or “Server Name Soldier”, and that’s how you appear to them as well… so you avoid the griefing I’ve seen in other PvP. Also, you can take it at your own pace….. join a blob….go off with a small group…. hunt down npcs…. take in a vista or do a hero point challenge. All in all, it’s a much more enjoyable experience than either of us expected, and now that both of us have gotten our “Gift of Battle”, we’ve actually stayed in WvW from time to time to explore other reward tracks

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Posted by: EphemeralWallaby.7643

EphemeralWallaby.7643

I don’t know about others, but I don’t want to shell out 10+ gold and spend time figuring out a WvW build for just 5-9 hours of game play. Even less so if I happened to not like WvW at all.

You might be confusing useful with optimal. I think that most people’s PvE builds would only require minor tweaking in order to be useful in WvW, and in that mostly in trait/utility selection (maybe weapons, too). I’m trying to think of the myriad of builds I’ve developed and played in PvE that wouldn’t be useful in WvW, and I honestly am having difficulty.

Granted, I wouldn’t be afk while doing it and ibwould be actively trying to find the most efficient way for me to get the track field quickly.

I’m not a huge fan of WvW, but every time I’ve gone in there it’s been to do so in a way that’s more engaging than efficient for the reward track I’m climbing. The more entertaining one makes it, the easier time is to pass. The most fun I personally have is when I equip uncommon weapon combos, but I get that might not do it for many people.

I could see people organizing guild events in WvW. Or, mentoring new players. Or, learning to solo roam if they’ve always done zerg. Or, learning zerg if they’ve always done solo roam. Or, equipping the brightest most obnoxious skins/dyes and trying to find ways to troll the enemy. Or, yes, even spending 10g+ in order to try a completely untested build. I’m sure there’s many other things that I can’t think of that one can do to make their experience in WvW more entertaining. There’s fun to be had that can be brought with the player, instead of relying solely on the game.

Even if WvW was a mess as Xevv says above… some of the best games I have ever played in my life were definitely messes… because I went in to them to have fun, and not take their flaws seriously.

However, I do think the gift of battle should require either WvW or PvP to obtain.

I can get behind that.

~EW

(edited by EphemeralWallaby.7643)

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

With the new Mastery system, it isn’t true that you can simply play as you like without consequence to your character. However to stay on-topic, it is true that if you don’t like WvW you can simply go without a Legendary weapon. I am simply questioning the strategy of locking the flashiest item that is probably desired by the most players behind a niche game mode that not everyone wants to play.

Well when the game was set up, the game mode wasn’t niche and everyone did want to play it.

I disagree – I didn’t see everyone playing WvW.

. it just hasn’t kept up somehow. There isn’t a way to prove your last statement, is it the flashiest item, is it desired by the most players, does nobody want to play it? Given that legendaries sell quite well on the TP whereas there are none of that chak egg sac thing that guy was ranting about yesterday.. and given how many invisible shoe threads get made.. I’d say there were flashier things.

I don’t disagree with you, I don’t want to wvw to get my next legendary but I will because that’s how you get the gift of battle for them. It isn’t a stress-inducing nightmare of a game mode (that would be SAB to me), just a bit boring. If you really want a legendary, just do enough a night until you get the gift and then don’t do any more. I’d support putting the vendor back and having a track.

The game can change – look at World Completion. If you want to play WvW to get the Gift, that is your decision. Some of us can request change since it is clear that change happens.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

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Posted by: Loop.8106

Loop.8106

With the new Mastery system, it isn’t true that you can simply play as you like without consequence to your character. However to stay on-topic, it is true that if you don’t like WvW you can simply go without a Legendary weapon. I am simply questioning the strategy of locking the flashiest item that is probably desired by the most players behind a niche game mode that not everyone wants to play.

The thing is. I can’t play without a legendary item. I’m part of the niche community that is still doing dungeon speedruns and records. Hence I need a legendary weapon. (Until they fix the legendary scaling in dungeons.)
Right now, a legendary weapon in AC deals about 32% more dps than an ascended. In TA its about 10%, which is still more than enough to make a HUGE difference. Especially in solos and duos.

I’d be absolutly delighted if I didnt need to go for a legendary. But right now I actually do in order to stay competetive.

No, you don’t need a legendary, you want a legendary to abuse a bug. You can play perfectly fine without one. And if ANet ever patches this bug then any speedrun records that abused it would no longer be valid and would no longer apply.

While this is a valid consideration, the bug has been in the game for over seven months currently and in no way has it been adressed. So while I can sit around for another 7 months hoping they do something about it, I might aswell craft myself a legendary to stay somewhat competetive in the meantime, no?

Optimise [OP]

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Posted by: Tumult.2578

Tumult.2578

I highly disagree, it reflects the state of WvW and the reality that only a handful of servers are worth WvWing on. It reflects how poorly balanced WvW is and how poorly structured it is. It reflects how little people want to play it even when it is rewarding because the gamemode itself just isn’t good. If anything it reflects how wrong anet is to try and force people into it without fixing any of those issues.

We are all capable of choosing our attitude in how we approach anything we do. It just requires preliminary consideration.

edit: the poster I quoted above demonstrates them choosing to do a 9 hour stint, choosing to be afk while doing it, choosing to bring in a build that’d be useless and unengaging to them, and ultimately choosing to participate in such a poor way with such a poor attitude that they’re admitting wasting the valuable map space they’re taking up. Those problems stem from their choices in how they’re approaching WvW to be engaging for them… not a problem with the reward track system.

~EW

Look, I know your a sharp person and I respect your opinion but I have to disagree with this.

There is clearly absolutely no interest in approaching WvW in any way that is engaging, period. This is the case for very many players. There is no indication that this will ever change. This is not the reward track systems problem, it’s the game’s problem. Do you really think there is any interest in the reward track system at all for these players?

Players are fully prepared to play any way they see fit when forced like this and look at that game modes players as at least partially responsible so they feel no remorse because of their methods chosen.

Trying to blame this on a players attitude is no different that saying “You have to like WvW because I do”. It doesn’t work because attitude is personally developed. They will never see that map space as valuable.

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Posted by: EphemeralWallaby.7643

EphemeralWallaby.7643

I highly disagree, it reflects the state of WvW and the reality that only a handful of servers are worth WvWing on. It reflects how poorly balanced WvW is and how poorly structured it is. It reflects how little people want to play it even when it is rewarding because the gamemode itself just isn’t good. If anything it reflects how wrong anet is to try and force people into it without fixing any of those issues.

We are all capable of choosing our attitude in how we approach anything we do. It just requires preliminary consideration.

edit: the poster I quoted above demonstrates them choosing to do a 9 hour stint, choosing to be afk while doing it, choosing to bring in a build that’d be useless and unengaging to them, and ultimately choosing to participate in such a poor way with such a poor attitude that they’re admitting wasting the valuable map space they’re taking up. Those problems stem from their choices in how they’re approaching WvW to be engaging for them… not a problem with the reward track system.

~EW

Look, I know your a sharp person and I respect your opinion but I have to disagree with this.

There is clearly absolutely no interest in approaching WvW in any way that is engaging, period. This is the case for very many players. There is no indication that this will ever change. This is not the reward track systems problem, it’s the game’s problem. Do you really think there is any interest in the reward track system at all for these players?

Players are fully prepared to play any way they see fit when forced like this and look at that game modes players as at least partially responsible so they feel no remorse because of their methods chosen.

Trying to blame this on a players attitude is no different that saying “You have to like WvW because I do”. It doesn’t work because attitude is personally developed. They will never see that map space as valuable.

Lol, I’m cool with us disagreeing, no worries.

My view distilled down is just a variation on ‘make lemonade out of the lemons you’re given.’ If a person is jumping into WvW to grab a GoB, then I think it’s a feasible approach… if they’re jumping into WvW as their primary game mode, then it’s silly that anyone would play something for an extended period of time that they don’t find fun; a position I’ve maintained for quite a while.

My earlier comments are solely focused on the ‘jumping in just to grab a GoB’ scenario. I’m not trying to say the equivalent of “you have to like WvW because I do.” I’m trying to say, ‘if you’re just trying to grab the GoB, what are the things you can do to try and find some entertainment until you get that GoB?’

~EW

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Posted by: echo.2053

echo.2053

The game can change – look at World Completion. If you want to play WvW to get the Gift, that is your decision. Some of us can request change since it is clear that change happens.

That shouldn’t have ever changed as you see now players think that game should be tailored to their individual desires. Have you even considered the repercussions of such changes? Some servers depend on the influx of hunters of legendarys to make pushes.

You misconstrued “play your way” into the entire game should change to my preference when it was only really ment that you didn’t have to be forced to play a specific role in parties.

I’m certain though that if they were to remove the heavy pve requirement for wvw/spvp players that you would be so equally accepting to changing the game for individual needs. strange

Bender the offender – Proud violator of 17 safe spaces –

(edited by echo.2053)

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Posted by: Sartharina.3542

Sartharina.3542

And what does dignity have to do with Legendaries? As you said, they are cosmetic items, not war medals…

THey are also prestige items, earned by participation in all game modes.

Frankly, I wish they’d give the Gift of War a PvP reward track instead of the stupid vendor. (And swap the names of the gifts. Why is the Gift of Battle the one granted for engaging in and contributing to a full-scale war, while the Gift of War is given for small, context-free battles?)

Every game mode has its own special rewards (Specialization collections in PvE, the reward tracks in PvP and WvW). Legendary weapons are the reward for a holistic approach and appreciation of the game’s modes.

As far as “Play my way” – how do I get the rewards for standing/running around Lion’s Arch looking pretty and trolling /s and /m chat?

(edited by Sartharina.3542)

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Posted by: Tumult.2578

Tumult.2578

That’s cool. I tend to be harsh when there appears to be no room for the opinion that the lemons should be changed. Wasn’t trying to offend.
Yours is certainly a more helpful approach. This just hasn’t made me feel like being helpful.

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Posted by: Seera.5916

Seera.5916

I don’t know about others, but I don’t want to shell out 10+ gold and spend time figuring out a WvW build for just 5-9 hours of game play. Even less so if I happened to not like WvW at all.

You might be confusing useful with optimal. I think that most people’s PvE builds would only require minor tweaking in order to be useful in WvW, and in that mostly in trait/utility selection (maybe weapons, too). I’m trying to think of the myriad of builds I’ve developed and played in PvE that wouldn’t be useful in WvW, and I honestly am having difficulty.

Granted, I wouldn’t be afk while doing it and ibwould be actively trying to find the most efficient way for me to get the track field quickly.

I’m not a huge fan of WvW, but every time I’ve gone in there it’s been to do so in a way that’s more engaging than efficient for the reward track I’m climbing. The more entertaining one makes it, the easier time is to pass. The most fun I personally have is when I equip uncommon weapon combos, but I get that might not do it for many people.

I could see people organizing guild events in WvW. Or, mentoring new players. Or, learning to solo roam if they’ve always done zerg. Or, learning zerg if they’ve always done solo roam. Or, equipping the brightest most obnoxious skins/dyes and trying to find ways to troll the enemy. Or, yes, even spending 10g+ in order to try a completely untested build. I’m sure there’s many other things that I can’t think of that one can do to make their experience in WvW more entertaining. There’s fun to be had that can be brought with the player, instead of relying solely on the game.

Even if WvW was a mess as Xevv says above… some of the best games I have ever played in my life were definitely messes… because I went in to them to have fun, and not take their flaws seriously.

However, I do think the gift of battle should require either WvW or PvP to obtain.

I can get behind that.

~EW

Full berserker’s is not good for WvW from what I’ve heard and many PvE players are geared as glass cannons. To swap out to a useful build would likely be 10+ gold as they would have to replace armor, weapons, and possibly trinkets.

Players that don’t like WvW for what it is at all wouldn’t be able to do anything you suggested to make it more engaging. The base activity isn’t fun for some. I’d just do the reward track progression in 15-30 minute chunks because that’s about as fun as WvW is for me. I’m not good at PvP fights and I get too anxious in WvW due to worrying if another player is coming up. Even in zergs.

And yea, I totally get you on games and focusing on just having fun in them despite any apparent flaws.

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

The game can change – look at World Completion. If you want to play WvW to get the Gift, that is your decision. Some of us can request change since it is clear that change happens.

That shouldn’t have ever changed as you see now players think that game should be tailored to their individual desires. Have you even considered the repercussions of such changes? Some servers depend on the influx of hunters of legendarys to make pushes.

I’m not certain, but it sounds like you’re saying that some WvW servers depend on “non-WvW” players to pad their numbers. If WvW isn’t popular enough to sustain itself without other players being pushed to play that mode, that is too bad. But that is not the way to make WvW more successful.

You misconstrued “play your way” into the entire game should change to my preference when it was only really ment that you didn’t have to be forced to play a specific role in parties.

I’m certain though that if they were to remove the heavy pve requirement for wvw/spvp players that you would be so equally accepting to changing the game for individual needs. strange

You are incorrect, I have already suggested that any content currently gated behind multiple game modes should be changed to allow completion in any mode a player desires, including multiple modes. This could be accomplished by each mode awarding some kind of token that can be used to complete the content. This way people won’t feel like they must play modes they don’t enjoy in order to complete content they wish.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

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Posted by: loat.8601

loat.8601

Full berserker’s is not good for WvW from what I’ve heard and many PvE players are geared as glass cannons. To swap out to a useful build would likely be 10+ gold as they would have to replace armor, weapons, and possibly trinkets.

A player making a legendary really shouldn’t be concerned about an extra 10g, should they? If the Gift of Battle were available at a vendor for gold, who of the “I don’t want to WvW for my legendary” crowd would be complaining?

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Posted by: Seera.5916

Seera.5916

Full berserker’s is not good for WvW from what I’ve heard and many PvE players are geared as glass cannons. To swap out to a useful build would likely be 10+ gold as they would have to replace armor, weapons, and possibly trinkets.

A player making a legendary really shouldn’t be concerned about an extra 10g, should they? If the Gift of Battle were available at a vendor for gold, who of the “I don’t want to WvW for my legendary” crowd would be complaining?

But that gold would be turned directly into the legendary. The gold for the gear is not.

And if they did put it as buyable for gold, it would be more than 10g.

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Posted by: Loop.8106

Loop.8106

Full berserker’s is not good for WvW from what I’ve heard and many PvE players are geared as glass cannons. To swap out to a useful build would likely be 10+ gold as they would have to replace armor, weapons, and possibly trinkets.

A player making a legendary really shouldn’t be concerned about an extra 10g, should they? If the Gift of Battle were available at a vendor for gold, who of the “I don’t want to WvW for my legendary” crowd would be complaining?

They could withraw 100-200 gold from my account for the Gift of Battle. Like money comes so easy nowadays from raid selling and multi-loot that it aint a big deal anymore.

Optimise [OP]

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Posted by: echo.2053

echo.2053

Full berserker’s is not good for WvW from what I’ve heard and many PvE players are geared as glass cannons. To swap out to a useful build would likely be 10+ gold as they would have to replace armor, weapons, and possibly trinkets.

Players that don’t like WvW for what it is at all wouldn’t be able to do anything you suggested to make it more engaging. The base activity isn’t fun for some. I’d just do the reward track progression in 15-30 minute chunks because that’s about as fun as WvW is for me. I’m not good at PvP fights and I get too anxious in WvW due to worrying if another player is coming up. Even in zergs.

And yea, I totally get you on games and focusing on just having fun in them despite any apparent flaws.

Full Zerk is fine in wvw with the one exception being if you are trying to zerg bust. The actual reason why some say that zerk isn’t good for wvw is that your average player lacks insight of when to dodge or avoid damage which is cruical for zerk. It takes time for people to learn how to counter damage vs just having that same player put on gear that increase life + defense which instantly increased their survival rate without effort – thus it’s easy to see why zerk is least preferred.

You may feel wronged by this but they didn’t add the dodge instructor to starter zones for no reason or go to world bosses and see how many are downed/killed – preferrably the lower area bosses where players have had plenty of time to learn attacks but still die. There is not an outcry for people to not wear zerk in pve is because the indivdual is insignificant due to the mass of people and the close proximity of wp’s compared to what is found in wvw. You can go to world bosses completely naked and it’ll still more than likely succeed.

10+ gold being a complaint is completely and utterly laughable when used in the context of a pve player. You can EASILY make that merely doing world bosses and selling/salavgeing the guaranteed rares. If that amount is an issue I’m actually rather throughly entertained and curious on how you plan on raising the several hundred gold that is required to make/buy the precursor itself. XD make as much as you can in 1 day of solely pve and then compare that to 1 day of just spvp and just wvw.

I’m not certain, but it sounds like you’re saying that some WvW servers depend on “non-WvW” players to pad their numbers. If WvW isn’t popular enough to sustain itself without other players being pushed to play that mode, that is too bad. But that is not the way to make WvW more successful.

No you are somewhat correct but its more along the lines of if people don’t see a decent amount of people then they move elsewhere. To put it into perspective – how many times have you switched from a low populated map to a high for say a world boss rather than attempt with whats on the current map – prolly quite a few times per day. Now imagine if there were no high pop alt maps just your one unpopulated map again rather than staying i’d imagine that you would move elsewhere. Its not because wvw is unpopular but rather that it’s not as profitable as pve is. The only way that would be slightly feasible would be to remove server wide bonus gained by wvw and replace it with a bonus that noticably increases drops/gold for those that participate in wvw. To qualify for said bonus players would have to only participate in wvw and donate x amount of badges to some npc – this way leechers couldn’t just sit in spawn all the time to gain such a bonus. This way you don’t have to do wvw if you want to but at the same time forfeit your bonus as a result.

You don’t really quite grasp what it would mean if it were separated like your suggestion. wvw/spvp players would gain legendarys at a fraction of the effort that you put in for pve.

Bender the offender – Proud violator of 17 safe spaces –

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Posted by: Seera.5916

Seera.5916

Full berserker’s is not good for WvW from what I’ve heard and many PvE players are geared as glass cannons. To swap out to a useful build would likely be 10+ gold as they would have to replace armor, weapons, and possibly trinkets.

Players that don’t like WvW for what it is at all wouldn’t be able to do anything you suggested to make it more engaging. The base activity isn’t fun for some. I’d just do the reward track progression in 15-30 minute chunks because that’s about as fun as WvW is for me. I’m not good at PvP fights and I get too anxious in WvW due to worrying if another player is coming up. Even in zergs.

And yea, I totally get you on games and focusing on just having fun in them despite any apparent flaws.

Full Zerk is fine in wvw with the one exception being if you are trying to zerg bust. The actual reason why some say that zerk isn’t good for wvw is that your average player lacks insight of when to dodge or avoid damage which is cruical for zerk. It takes time for people to learn how to counter damage vs just having that same player put on gear that increase life + defense which instantly increased their survival rate without effort – thus it’s easy to see why zerk is least preferred.

You may feel wronged by this but they didn’t add the dodge instructor to starter zones for no reason or go to world bosses and see how many are downed/killed – preferrably the lower area bosses where players have had plenty of time to learn attacks but still die. There is not an outcry for people to not wear zerk in pve is because the indivdual is insignificant due to the mass of people and the close proximity of wp’s compared to what is found in wvw. You can go to world bosses completely naked and it’ll still more than likely succeed.

10+ gold being a complaint is completely and utterly laughable when used in the context of a pve player. You can EASILY make that merely doing world bosses and selling/salavgeing the guaranteed rares. If that amount is an issue I’m actually rather throughly entertained and curious on how you plan on raising the several hundred gold that is required to make/buy the precursor itself. XD make as much as you can in 1 day of solely pve and then compare that to 1 day of just spvp and just wvw.

I’m not certain, but it sounds like you’re saying that some WvW servers depend on “non-WvW” players to pad their numbers. If WvW isn’t popular enough to sustain itself without other players being pushed to play that mode, that is too bad. But that is not the way to make WvW more successful.

No you are somewhat correct but its more along the lines of if people don’t see a decent amount of people then they move elsewhere. To put it into perspective – how many times have you switched from a low populated map to a high for say a world boss rather than attempt with whats on the current map – prolly quite a few times per day. Now imagine if there were no high pop alt maps just your one unpopulated map again rather than staying i’d imagine that you would move elsewhere. Its not because wvw is unpopular but rather that it’s not as profitable as pve is. The only way that would be slightly feasible would be to remove server wide bonus gained by wvw and replace it with a bonus that noticably increases drops/gold for those that participate in wvw. To qualify for said bonus players would have to only participate in wvw and donate x amount of badges to some npc – this way leechers couldn’t just sit in spawn all the time to gain such a bonus. This way you don’t have to do wvw if you want to but at the same time forfeit your bonus as a result.

You don’t really quite grasp what it would mean if it were separated like your suggestion. wvw/spvp players would gain legendarys at a fraction of the effort that you put in for pve.

And you’ve completely missed the point in the 10+ gold complaint. A player who does not like WvW may not necessarily want to spend money on gear for WvW. Because they won’t ever play it outside of the 5-9 hours it takes them to get the Gift of Battle.

I’m also not saying it should be reversed to what it was or added to PvE somehow. It is only 5-9 hours and it is doable in all types of gear (it just may take longer). And those wishing to gear to shorten the time do only have to spend a relatively small amount of gold compared to the other amounts of gold needed for the legendary.

Which is why I think the Gift of Battle track should be added to PvP as well. Gives players another option if they really don’t want to play WvW and don’t want to buy the legendary out right.

And those of us who want a legendary but don’t want to farm for gold gain it slowly. I’ve been slowly working toward my first legendary for 2-3 years now. I’m even crafting my own precursor. I even earned my Gift of Exploration prior to the WvW being removed from map completion. I’m using the legendary as a goal to work toward. It won’t bother me if it takes me another 2 years to finish it out.

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Posted by: echo.2053

echo.2053

And you’ve completely missed the point in the 10+ gold complaint. A player who does not like WvW may not necessarily want to spend money on gear for WvW. Because they won’t ever play it outside of the 5-9 hours it takes them to get the Gift of Battle.

I’m also not saying it should be reversed to what it was or added to PvE somehow. It is only 5-9 hours and it is doable in all types of gear (it just may take longer). And those wishing to gear to shorten the time do only have to spend a relatively small amount of gold compared to the other amounts of gold needed for the legendary.

Which is why I think the Gift of Battle track should be added to PvP as well. Gives players another option if they really don’t want to play WvW and don’t want to buy the legendary out right.

And those of us who want a legendary but don’t want to farm for gold gain it slowly. I’ve been slowly working toward my first legendary for 2-3 years now. I’m even crafting my own precursor. I even earned my Gift of Exploration prior to the WvW being removed from map completion. I’m using the legendary as a goal to work toward. It won’t bother me if it takes me another 2 years to finish it out.

I can’t help but seriously doubt that you or these other players hunting for legendarys don’t have at least 1 character that is condi wearing rabid/dire gear after 2-3 years – I’m a condi necro would be able to tag pretty much everything and still have decent survival. If you are absolutely deadset on not changing a thing you could always still go into wvw with Zerker gear granted you might die more often – on the brightside it might help you learn to avoid damage and thus make you into a better player.

Added to Pvp – That is just silly. What makes you think adding it to spvp would lessen the whole ordeal when you already stated you aren’t good at pvp ( which is what spvp is) and gain anxiety about other player joining the fight (for which there are 4 others beside the one you are fighting)? DON’T BOTHER ANSWERING as I already aware of your intended goal – you want it to be made into a pvp track so that you can cheese the hell out of it using player public games to trade for dailies or queue into unranked forcing the other 4 to have to carry you.

Wait what???

I even earned my Gift of Exploration prior to the WvW being removed from map completion.

How the hell were you able to map all 4 wvw maps but was not able to get 500 badges at that time for the GoB? …. that takes alot of skill my friend….I mean you had to be actively avoiding rings that your own server was capturing to not be able to get that amount at the time.

2-3 year start….at 2-3 gold per a day I would bump estimated completion date to 8-10 years. Its perfectly fine if you want to go slow but if 10 gold is a huge set back (even for 5-9 hours) at least be realistic with yourself – I mean it’s the one piece of a legendary that doesn’t require money, you can salavage the stuff after you get the gift for ectos which you will need, as well as when you rank in wvw you gain money and loot back which you’ll more than likely earn most if not all that gold back in that time frame. I have absolutely zero intention for any type of bragging point but I started and completed 4 within your timeframe. Excluding 1 where the precursor dropped in pve for me and another precursor I got off the tp ( sharkspear because it was just cheap) – the remaining two I gave myself to obtain the pres solely via the magic forge both of which were the most expensive at the time, everything has kinda dropped and switched around as a result of this crafting nonsense. Each were started and finshed independant of one another and none taking more than a month to complete.

Despite what you may be thinking after reading that I was rather very casual – in fact I’m pretty confident that I have less total hours than you even though I preordered and not even sure that you did – as well as gained about a week and a half of time when I fell asleep in spvp matches overnight when they didn’t kick you back to lobby after so many games. Dry top, silverwaste, and all of the HOT maps are all loot maps whereas the years prior to their release Anet was on a binge nerfing anything/everything that gave too much loot. There isn’t really a reason why you can’t make enough gold – and I mean not by hardcore farming just casual play – where separating from 10 gold would make that big of an impact.

Bender the offender – Proud violator of 17 safe spaces –