Guild Wars 2

PS: Anecdotal evidence … is not evidence.

Distaste.4801:

Vayne.8563:

Nerelith.7360:

Vayne.8563:

DJRiful.3749:

snip

Think of it as polling though. People run political polls and poll 1000 people to get an idea of the trends, and usually those polls are accurate.

snip

Random in the sense that other than " happened to hear of and prefer overwolf to some other app…" there is no scientific basis to how the players were selected. The Players selected themselves so cannot really be said to be representative of the whole.

Right the players weren’t selected at all and it’s a much much bigger sampling size than most polls. When you have a sample size of 1000, you’d better pick carefully. The sample size here is the size of those who run overwolf in the background. I’m pretty sure it’s more than 1000 people. Same with the sample size of Raptr.

Again, it won’t give us numbers, but it should give us trends….which is what I’m looking at. It’s the other information people keeping ignoring that this is backing up.

Basically, there’s no evidence at all the game is dead. There’s circumstantial evidence that it’s not.

There isn’t circumstantial evidence that it’s doing well though. It’s a game on a list with no numbers to give it any meaning. The gap between #1 and #7 could be huge. #6 could be played 10x more. I mean if I gave you a list of fastest cars and it read #1 Ferrari #2 Porsche #3 fiat is that circumstantial evidence that a fiat is one of the fastest cars?

There is also just as much if not more circumstantial evidence supporting that the game isn’t doing well. Xfire, just as good as overwolf, has actual numbers attached to it and GW2 is down 96% or something(not doing the math again) since launch. From 13k players down to 500, 70k+ hours down to 2k . Then of course we have the anecdotal evidence of WvW and SPvP populations decreasing. I mean it’s kind of hard to argue with being on a T1 server and being able to login to WvW and have the outnumbered buff where a year ago you had to wait in queue.

Now I’m not saying GW2 is dead, if it was then the servers wouldn’t be open. I am merely saying that GW2’s population has decreased and is probably still decreasing albeit at a slower rate. Now there will certainly be spikes for new content, it is b2p, but overall the population isn’t what it was say a year ago. A lot of people forget the megaserver stuff and don’t realize the populations they are seeing in PvE are all servers combined. I’d also expect the LS player population to be quite steady because it gets the bulk of development where WvW and SPvP players are dropping off due to ArenaNet’s lack of attention. So to a player that plays LS things probably seem like puppies and rainbows, it’s a drastically different story elsewhere in the game.

The real question is what sized playerbase can the game have and still be able to remain profitable. Gw2 is unique in that it will be hard to put into maintenance mode like sub based or even F2P games. They need gem sales to sustain servers and since there really isn’t a lot of finite items on the gem store fore repeat sales their sales will dry up as shortly after they stop developing. Their only option would be to continue development of gem store stuff and nothing else, so that will probably be the red flag that things are coming to an end, which we havn’t seen. The conclusion of course is that whatever their current population is, it is able to support further development.

No circumstantial evidence that it’s doing well. That would sort of mean that the top twenty games on Raptr or the top ten on Overwolf aren’t doing well. That means there are hundreds of games and only five or six of them are doing well. I don’t believe this at all.

We tend to find that games not doing well have staff layoffs, not staff hirings. That’s certainly my experience in the industry. You don’t say we’re doing badly, let’s hire more people. It’s not logical.

If a game is doing well or not is a relative statement. There are many unknowns. But if there had been a mass layoff at Anet we’d have heard of it as surely as we heard about the ones from Funcom and EA. We hear these things. You can’t keep the secret. That’s especially true for public companies.

So we come to the crux of the matter. What does well even mean. Well, to me, means sustainable. The game, in my opinion is sustainable as is. That means it’s making enough money to continue. It’s well as opposed to being sick.

Anet has just had an influx of money from the China sale even if it sold below expectations (which I don’t know for sure). That influx will boost the game until they come out with an expansion which I’m convinced will happen.

But these stories with voice actors and new instances…this isn’t something you see in games doing badly. It’s at least okay, maybe good. That’s well to me.

I don’t think it is completely fair to say other mmorpg are doing worse than GW2 though.

Those other mmorpg are probably making even more money.

The thing is the price/performance ratio of GW2 is simply amazing. There are so many people that are able to play for free after the initial 60$. Other f2p games have too many restriction or just try too hard to force players to pay.

So even if GW2 is able to sustain players, you need to ask how many of those are because there are too many freebies.

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

As for the other various attempts to discredit the information I offered up… i’m rolling my eyes.

I care less about discrediting the information than noting it’s not exact and the article even states at the bottom it’s potentially not an accurate or complete representation of who plays what.

How can I tell GW2 isn’t dead, or dying? They haven’t announced they’re stopping development on anything yet, and it’s highly likely the first to get the cut would be the Living Story project if they needed to go into “crisis fund management mode”.

The second most likely sign? Hearing of people leaving the company in large numbers. (Never fear, I’m sure we’d hear of it even here on the official forums.)

Not many signs of either, though there is some rather odd nostalgia-aimed Black Lion Ticket weapon sets being brought out now, so there may be pressure to try to get what they can out of it. Leading to the team going “let’s find something from the first game which was well-remembered”.

I’ll know the game is in terrible shape when they announce Cantha.

now use twitch views and make a toplist with this and check where gw2 is

but hey this dont looks so good so this is not so accurate how this overwolf thing here?

seriously – this thread

edit: oh here the top 20 list for may on twitch
http://blog.twitch.tv/2014/06/top-twitch-games-for-may-2014/
and i bet you will not find gw2 even in top 100 list

It’s always funny when people try to prove something with these 3rd party programs. The ratio would be so different when compared to Anet’s own data.

The sample size does matter. As someone else mentioned above, we don’t know the gap between 7th place or 6th place. Or the gap between 9th and 10th, so it’s a useless ranking.

I looked over Overwolf’s website and couldn’t find any methodology. It’s about as useless as a Fox News poll debating whether their viewers approve of Obama or not. Their sample size does not reflect the whole population of the U.S., just as Overwolf’s clients do not measure against the ~3.5 million box sales.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-the-first-year/
^This was last year, but still relevant. 3.5M sold, 460K peak concurrent. We’ll have to wait for another blog post by O’brien to get more data, if it ever happens (unless i’ve missed one this year?).

Let’s bring reality back. 460k peak is weak. That’s not even half a million out of 3.5 million, and that was from last year. If anything, that ranking makes GW2 look even worse. Ranked 7th with ~460k at peak time (of course it’s not that anymore, but i use it for a reference). Those other games ranked higher must have 470k? 480k? 700k? over 1 million? ..at peak right? The point is, we don’t know the disparity numbers between ranks.

Now le’ts see what has happened to GW2 since then.

There hasn’t been any new servers added, and it went from overflows to megaservers , which are really server merges typical of other mmos, whether you want to call it any other name, such as, “connected realms”, or “megaservers”. This only happens when the population drops off, and stops growing. The latter point is crucial, because it shows that people weren’t buying the game, or making more alts, to fill in the lower populated zones.

http://www.vg247.com/2013/09/24/guild-wars-2-trial-period-extended-games-goes-on-sale-for-a-limited-time/
GW2 has been on sale multiple times now. It also went on sale today. 50% off is huge. Companies don’t do that unless they want to entice more players, because they aren’t getting enough revenue from box sales, or gem store, and for multiple other reasons too.

However, server merges or game sales isn’t the only proof. The economy is the biggest factor determining the population size. Prices have skyrocketed, because of the lack of supply from the overall population, and only a small playerbase are the ones demanding these items. This is why the sellers know they can set the prices high, because of these loyalists to the game.

The Gold to Gems is the other factor. Just look at this chart: http://www.gw2spidy.com/gem (remember to click ALL). From the launch date, the rate was very low, and this was due to the population buying gems on the TP and trading them for silver/gold. However, as time goes by, the ratio widens. This is due to less players playing. It would be ridiculous to think the population still has 460k+ peak users, and that only a small percentage of them are the only ones still buying gems. That’s not how markets work. Walmart and other retail stores fluctuate their prices based on the number of customers buying their products, just like the chart shows.

GW2 isn’t dying, but it’s also not growing. And i wouldn’t take anything Anet says with a grain of salt, and not just Anet, but any company that tries to bolster their population numbers. Swtor just announced at Gamescom that it had over 1 million logins in a month. Again, no hard data, or clarity of unique logins vs. character logins, or whether these logins were on for 10 minutes, or 5 hours.

Anyway, this got way too long.
TL;DR: that ranking is useless without any hard numbers.

Also, all one has to do is measure the SPvP game browser and WvW populations to get an accurate pulse on the game. Hint: It’s very, very low.

Romek.4201:

now use twitch views and make a toplist with this and check where gw2 is

but hey this dont looks so good so this is not so accurate how this overwolf thing here?

seriously – this thread

edit: oh here the top 20 list for may on twitch
http://blog.twitch.tv/2014/06/top-twitch-games-for-may-2014/
and i bet you will not find gw2 even in top 100 list

Watching <> playing. Most people watch PvP, rather than PvE. And since most of us acknowledge PvP is in a bad place right now, it’s hard to fathom how watching something will be as big a deal as playing it.

You see overwolf measures PLAYERS.

nexxe.7081:

Also, all one has to do is measure the SPvP game browser and WvW populations to get an accurate pulse on the game. Hint: It’s very, very low.

Or it’s a PvE-centric game and that’s where most of the people are. I’ve been saying this game is centered on PvE for a long long time. Various polls from the forums have shown that most people play PvE, not PvP or WvW, or even the two combined.

Vayne.8563:

Romek.4201:

now use twitch views and make a toplist with this and check where gw2 is

but hey this dont looks so good so this is not so accurate how this overwolf thing here?

seriously – this thread

edit: oh here the top 20 list for may on twitch
http://blog.twitch.tv/2014/06/top-twitch-games-for-may-2014/
and i bet you will not find gw2 even in top 100 list

Watching <> playing. Most people watch PvP, rather than PvE. And since most of us acknowledge PvP is in a bad place right now, it’s hard to fathom how watching something will be as big a deal as playing it.

You see overwolf measures PLAYERS.

and twitch popularity

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

For those of you who express your expertise in the field of hyperbole by proclaiming Guild Wars 2 as a dead game, with people leaving in droves..

Congrats to a continued good showing against some tough contenders!

http://www.newzoo.com/free/rankings/top-20-core-pc-games/

The only thing one can reliably extrapolate from that is that Guildwars 2 needs tanks.

Royale.5863:

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

For those of you who express your expertise in the field of hyperbole by proclaiming Guild Wars 2 as a dead game, with people leaving in droves..

Congrats to a continued good showing against some tough contenders!

http://www.newzoo.com/free/rankings/top-20-core-pc-games/

The only thing one can reliably extrapolate from that is that Guildwars 2 needs tanks.

That’s pretty funny, actually. But Guild Wars 2 has tanks. I know, I’ve defended some of them from Zhaitan’s forces.

NCSoft still haven’t announced their 4 million sales milestone for the west (Kong Zhong’s PR does not count), that’s why they’re pushing for sales again.
I think GW2 has reached near saturation in terms of interest.

BlueZone.4236:

NCSoft still haven’t announced their 4 million sales milestone for the west (Kong Zhong’s PR does not count), that’s why they’re pushing for sales again.
I think GW2 has reached near saturation in terms of interest.

That was true a long time ago. It’s true with well over 90% of all games. As a retailer who sold games for a very long time, I can tell you that over 90% of all game sales occur for a title during it’s first three months, for most games. Only sales and making the title cheaper and cheaper make more sales but they still only extremeliy rarely significantly add to the overall game’s population. There are exceptions to this but they’re very few and far between.

For example Eve Online is increasing subscribers. They now have the most they’ve ever had, which is about half a million. But they’re a niche game, and half a million people, as a game high, isn’t all that impressive. And they’re still a huge exception to a very broad rule.

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

NCSoft still haven’t announced their 4 million sales milestone for the west (Kong Zhong’s PR does not count), that’s why they’re pushing for sales again.
I think GW2 has reached near saturation in terms of interest.

That was true a long time ago. It’s true with well over 90% of all games. As a retailer who sold games for a very long time, I can tell you that over 90% of all game sales occur for a title during it’s first three months, for most games. Only sales and making the title cheaper and cheaper make more sales but they still only extremeliy rarely significantly add to the overall game’s population. There are exceptions to this but they’re very few and far between.

For example Eve Online is increasing subscribers. They now have the most they’ve ever had, which is about half a million. But they’re a niche game, and half a million people, as a game high, isn’t all that impressive. And they’re still a huge exception to a very broad rule.

Yes, that’s right. GW2 is essentially normal.
And if GW2’s ranking is anything to go by, GW2 is pretty much in the niche area as well.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

NCSoft still haven’t announced their 4 million sales milestone for the west (Kong Zhong’s PR does not count), that’s why they’re pushing for sales again.
I think GW2 has reached near saturation in terms of interest.

That was true a long time ago. It’s true with well over 90% of all games. As a retailer who sold games for a very long time, I can tell you that over 90% of all game sales occur for a title during it’s first three months, for most games. Only sales and making the title cheaper and cheaper make more sales but they still only extremeliy rarely significantly add to the overall game’s population. There are exceptions to this but they’re very few and far between.

For example Eve Online is increasing subscribers. They now have the most they’ve ever had, which is about half a million. But they’re a niche game, and half a million people, as a game high, isn’t all that impressive. And they’re still a huge exception to a very broad rule.

Yes, that’s right. GW2 is essentially normal.
And if GW2’s ranking is anything to go by, GW2 is pretty much in the niche area as well.

I’ve been saying for a very long time that this is a niche game, not mainstream. I’m trying very hard to convince people to leave it in it’s niche, because that’s it’s only real strength. Trying to make this game main stream at the expense of that niche is foolish.

It’s a big enough niche because no one else out there is doing what this game does.

Dead? no
Lower populated than 1 year ago? yes

The can and will be said for any MMO in the market, I recently came back to GW2 after a year break, in that time have tried numerous other MMOs and the same story is said in each and every one of them

The latest MMO to go into Beta (black Gold and Archlord 2) the population is nearly dead 1 month after them opening up.

Such is the MMO market at present.

GW2… imo will still be here for a few years yet

overwolf doesnt really give much of their information.
how do they determine “unique sessions”
how many does each game have?

how does it compare to how the game performed 8 months ago.

“I know where I came from—but where did all you zombies come from?” – Robert Heinlein

Sorry. Line popped into my head.

phys.7689:

overwolf doesnt really give much of their information.
how do they determine “unique sessions”
how many does each game have?

how does it compare to how the game performed 8 months ago.

But we do know that Guild Wars 2 has been 7 for at least five months, since you can go back four months and it didnt’ move from the month before.

Hmmm, questionable source in my opinion.

I trust professional data researchers! Plues superdataresearch.com does a lot of research into video games and eSports

Source: http://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/mmo-arpu/

Daelin.6782:

Hmmm, questionable source in my opinion.

I trust professional data researchers! Plues superdataresearch.com does a lot of research into video games and eSports

Source: http://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/mmo-arpu/

this data isnt really that useful for most purposes, and much of its source is obscured. The description shows a lot of how they get their info on earnings, but not a lot for how they get their info for player numbers.

which is key to determining money earned per player. I think money earned per year is probably a better number, and i think GW2 is performing well there. Its also a lot more direct.
they also count gw2 as f2p, which makes me wonder if they count box sales (probably do)

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

overwolf doesnt really give much of their information.
how do they determine “unique sessions”
how many does each game have?

how does it compare to how the game performed 8 months ago.

But we do know that Guild Wars 2 has been 7 for at least five months, since you can go back four months and it didnt’ move from the month before.

the question is really what does 7 really mean in this case. I generally prefer statistics that provide most of their data and math for analysis. I am not really saying gw2 is doing worse or better than this data shows, just saying these statistics dont seem that meaningful to me without actual explanation of the data

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

overwolf doesnt really give much of their information.
how do they determine “unique sessions”
how many does each game have?

how does it compare to how the game performed 8 months ago.

But we do know that Guild Wars 2 has been 7 for at least five months, since you can go back four months and it didnt’ move from the month before.

the question is really what does 7 really mean in this case. I generally prefer statistics that provide most of their data and math for analysis. I am not really saying gw2 is doing worse or better than this data shows, just saying these statistics dont seem that meaningful to me without actual explanation of the data

However it’s measured it’s showing steady. If it’s player log in or hours player. It’s not moving up or down. Interestingly enough it’s been relatively steady on Raptr as well. That means something.

The numbers don’t….the trend does.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

overwolf doesnt really give much of their information.
how do they determine “unique sessions”
how many does each game have?

how does it compare to how the game performed 8 months ago.

But we do know that Guild Wars 2 has been 7 for at least five months, since you can go back four months and it didnt’ move from the month before.

the question is really what does 7 really mean in this case. I generally prefer statistics that provide most of their data and math for analysis. I am not really saying gw2 is doing worse or better than this data shows, just saying these statistics dont seem that meaningful to me without actual explanation of the data

However it’s measured it’s showing steady. If it’s player log in or hours player. It’s not moving up or down. Interestingly enough it’s been relatively steady on Raptr as well. That means something.

The numbers don’t….the trend does.

relatively steady for this quarter, useful info i suppose

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

overwolf doesnt really give much of their information.
how do they determine “unique sessions”
how many does each game have?

how does it compare to how the game performed 8 months ago.

But we do know that Guild Wars 2 has been 7 for at least five months, since you can go back four months and it didnt’ move from the month before.

the question is really what does 7 really mean in this case. I generally prefer statistics that provide most of their data and math for analysis. I am not really saying gw2 is doing worse or better than this data shows, just saying these statistics dont seem that meaningful to me without actual explanation of the data

However it’s measured it’s showing steady. If it’s player log in or hours player. It’s not moving up or down. Interestingly enough it’s been relatively steady on Raptr as well. That means something.

The numbers don’t….the trend does.

relatively steady for this quarter, useful info i suppose

More than a quarter if you go back in the Raptr blog.

Hey there!

Raif the Overwolf Community Manager here, just wanted to weigh in.

The stats are not based off of a poll, but based off of who plays <Insert game name here> game with Overwolf running. Overwolf recognizes games being run on the computer and then takes note of it, whether the game is supported or not. Please take note that this only happens when Overwolf is running, not if it is off. These numbers are unique runs of the game, so that means each number is a singular person running that game once in that month and is not counted more than once.

The base of people being used for the metrics is our complete userbase of people who have Overwolf. The metrics are not edited or changed in any way whatsoever and are just the top 20 games for that month.

The note about accuracy is that this is a representation of game popularity, not an exact replica as that would be impossible.

Hope that clears some stuff up. I’ll be happy to answer any further questions.

~ Raif

Hey Raif, thanks for that clarification. That helps.

so that basically means that most people have continued to run the game at least once per month while using an overwold app.
I guess that means i was probably counted even though i havent played more than 3-4 hours in the last 3 to 4 months. (gotta log in to unlock the LS.

I guess it shows people havent really completely quit /total disinterest in GW2.

However, there is a lot that doesnt really tell us. Good to know though

phys.7689:

so that basically means that most people have continued to run the game at least once per month while using an overwold app.
I guess that means i was probably counted even though i havent played more than 3-4 hours in the last 3 to 4 months. (gotta log in to unlock the LS.

I guess it shows people havent really completely quit /total disinterest in GW2.

However, there is a lot that doesnt really tell us. Good to know though

Technically, yes. If you logged into Guild Wars 2 and played once with Overwolf running you were counted.

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

Nerelith.7360:

I think this is the OP seeking and finding numbers to back his personal desire. That he is Playing a popular game.

This sounds to me, a lot like you are projecting what “you think” is my motivation, in order to fulfill your need to be right in your debate with Vayne.

Unfortunately, you are wrong on both counts.

One of my respected colleagues in the industry posted the original article on LinkedIn, without specific reference to any of the games on either the Raptr or Overwolf lists.

I am a fan of Guild Wars 2, and as Vayne astutely observes, quite sick of wading through streams of anecdotal insults which have become “fact” about the game, by repetition and not by truth.

He is also correct in his assumption that I posted this, not to justify my own interest in the game, but to spread some positive “fact” about the game.

The forum falls to the lowest common denominator because of the bullies who keep repeating their BS drive the pragmatic contributors to give up and come back only to read patch notes.

This is why it has been stated repeatedly by developers, in this forum, that the apparent public consensus in the forums on any particular topic does in no way guarantee representation by the broader audience. There is a clear bias.

There is a clear bias in the"Overwolf" poll: it does not reflect games which do not lend themselves to a need for conference-call communication tools.

As for the other various attempts to discredit the information I offered up… i’m rolling my eyes.

Except me and Vayne are not debating. We are in agreement.

Speaking of which, if I misread your motivation… I apologize. What was your motivation? See…If I am enjoying a game, I don’t look for statistics to post that say " Look the game is doing great." I Look at the game. I see where it is weak in my opinion.

Sometimes…. saying " Gw2 is #2 on such and such a list .. means it’s doing great" is Not as helpful as saying…" Imo…. Gw2 has awesome graphics and gameplay…it is enjoyable..the feeling that at least in PvE I can just grab a ton of cool skills that I enjoy using and still be viable… but it is weak in… yadda yadda yadda."

At no time did I seek to be argumentative. But it seems I came across that way.

PS I was not seeking to discredit the information you provided. Just hoped to place it in context.

Just caught something. it is not your contention that I am among those bullies hopefully? Just want to clear that up.

Vayne.8563:

Distaste.4801:

There isn’t circumstantial evidence that it’s doing well though. It’s a game on a list with no numbers to give it any meaning. The gap between #1 and #7 could be huge. #6 could be played 10x more. I mean if I gave you a list of fastest cars and it read #1 Ferrari #2 Porsche #3 fiat is that circumstantial evidence that a fiat is one of the fastest cars?

There is also just as much if not more circumstantial evidence supporting that the game isn’t doing well. Xfire, just as good as overwolf, has actual numbers attached to it and GW2 is down 96% or something(not doing the math again) since launch. From 13k players down to 500, 70k+ hours down to 2k . Then of course we have the anecdotal evidence of WvW and SPvP populations decreasing. I mean it’s kind of hard to argue with being on a T1 server and being able to login to WvW and have the outnumbered buff where a year ago you had to wait in queue.

Now I’m not saying GW2 is dead, if it was then the servers wouldn’t be open. I am merely saying that GW2’s population has decreased and is probably still decreasing albeit at a slower rate. Now there will certainly be spikes for new content, it is b2p, but overall the population isn’t what it was say a year ago. A lot of people forget the megaserver stuff and don’t realize the populations they are seeing in PvE are all servers combined. I’d also expect the LS player population to be quite steady because it gets the bulk of development where WvW and SPvP players are dropping off due to ArenaNet’s lack of attention. So to a player that plays LS things probably seem like puppies and rainbows, it’s a drastically different story elsewhere in the game.

The real question is what sized playerbase can the game have and still be able to remain profitable. Gw2 is unique in that it will be hard to put into maintenance mode like sub based or even F2P games. They need gem sales to sustain servers and since there really isn’t a lot of finite items on the gem store fore repeat sales their sales will dry up as shortly after they stop developing. Their only option would be to continue development of gem store stuff and nothing else, so that will probably be the red flag that things are coming to an end, which we havn’t seen. The conclusion of course is that whatever their current population is, it is able to support further development.

No circumstantial evidence that it’s doing well. That would sort of mean that the top twenty games on Raptr or the top ten on Overwolf aren’t doing well. That means there are hundreds of games and only five or six of them are doing well. I don’t believe this at all.

We tend to find that games not doing well have staff layoffs, not staff hirings. That’s certainly my experience in the industry. You don’t say we’re doing badly, let’s hire more people. It’s not logical.

If a game is doing well or not is a relative statement. There are many unknowns. But if there had been a mass layoff at Anet we’d have heard of it as surely as we heard about the ones from Funcom and EA. We hear these things. You can’t keep the secret. That’s especially true for public companies.

So we come to the crux of the matter. What does well even mean. Well, to me, means sustainable. The game, in my opinion is sustainable as is. That means it’s making enough money to continue. It’s well as opposed to being sick.

Anet has just had an influx of money from the China sale even if it sold below expectations (which I don’t know for sure). That influx will boost the game until they come out with an expansion which I’m convinced will happen.

But these stories with voice actors and new instances…this isn’t something you see in games doing badly. It’s at least okay, maybe good. That’s well to me.

I have to agree. If Gw2 is doing well enough to continue running the servers, and paying salaraies, paying operation costs, and delivering profit to NCSoft, it’s doing well.

I do not understand the false dichotomy. Some people see it as black and white. White = Fantastically awesome delivering RoI of 80 % a year ( gross exxageration) and Black = Utter fail.

How a game does is on a black to grey to white scale. Somewhere along that scale, around the light grey region is " well enough to be sustainably profitable."

Gw2 is above that line, or else as you said People would be laid off. As far as i know… Gw2 is one of the better MMO’s out at the moment. I Just hope that WoW WOV or EQ Next doesn’t hurt it’s concurrent numbers. Which is why I think that Living Story, No living story…. Gw2 should plan an expansion.

But that is a subject for another thread.

phys.7689:

so that basically means that most people have continued to run the game at least once per month while using an overwold app.
I guess that means i was probably counted even though i havent played more than 3-4 hours in the last 3 to 4 months. (gotta log in to unlock the LS.

I guess it shows people havent really completely quit /total disinterest in GW2.

However, there is a lot that doesnt really tell us. Good to know though

But it does tell us something. It’s the same for every single game on that list. And every game does stuff to entice people to log in whether it’s specials, dailies, events, or logging in for the living story.

laokoko.7403:

I don’t think it is completely fair to say other mmorpg are doing worse than GW2 though.

Those other mmorpg are probably making even more money.

The thing is the price/performance ratio of GW2 is simply amazing. There are so many people that are able to play for free after the initial 60$. Other f2p games have too many restriction or just try too hard to force players to pay.

So even if GW2 is able to sustain players, you need to ask how many of those are because there are too many freebies.

EA: How many players that are not paying me do you expect me to buy bandwidth for?

James: As many as you can get.

Ok OP, so to summarize, looking at Raptr, Steam, Xfire & Overwolf, the top 3-4 PC games have a large population, whereas the rest are small, including GW2.
GW2 is financially well, as per NCSoft’s earning report, with it’s small population.
No sarcasm.

BlueZone.4236:

Ok OP, so to summarize, looking at Raptr, Steam, Xfire & Overwolf, the top 3-4 PC games have a large population, whereas the rest are small, including GW2.
GW2 is financially well, as per NCSoft’s earning report, with it’s small population.
No sarcasm.

It’s not small, if it’s like in the top ten, it’s just not huge. All size is relative. Didn’t anyone ever tell you that?

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Ok OP, so to summarize, looking at Raptr, Steam, Xfire & Overwolf, the top 3-4 PC games have a large population, whereas the rest are small, including GW2.
GW2 is financially well, as per NCSoft’s earning report, with it’s small population.
No sarcasm.

It’s not small, if it’s like in the top ten, it’s just not huge. All size is relative. Didn’t anyone ever tell you that?

Relative to the top 3-4 it’s small, so it’s small.

The game is not flooded with new players piling in every day, but it is far from dead, dying, or even stale.

People have been saying its been ‘dying’ for almost a year. Meanwhile, while they’re here complaining about such, someone new is logging in for the first time.

When it comes to MMORPGs, the multiplayer aspect of the game is the point of interest. The only way I could see anyone being actively convinced that the game was dying is if they placed too much emphasis on the content they were experiencing and not enough on the people around them experiencing that content as well.

MauricioCezar.2673:

Any list that shows LoL and Minecraft as a 1st places is totally discredited.

You must be living under a rock then, League of Legends and Minecraft are hands down the most played PC games right now.

I mean, you can cherry-pick from any 3rd party software metrics to give you the results you want. On raptr (22 million users) Guild Wars 2 was #17 out of just PC games last month.

http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-july-2014-summers-winners-and-losers/

lol, do people actually believe this game has a bigger concurrent player base (Talking strictly NA/EU) than games like diablo 3 (recent xpac had 3m copies sold alone) or hearthstone (100k+ concurrent), or even skyrim(50-60k peak concurrent on steam stats) for that matter?

all this list shows is that gw2 has a good chunk of players that just run overwolf.

GW2 is doing OK, for 1 reason only. It’s F2P. You don’t need a sub to come back in the game and check some things out. I got friends who log in like once a month just to check how the market is doing on their investments on unique items like dragon coffers/wings, etc. They don’t really play the game, but because there’s no sub, they have no obligation to uninstall or completely quit. Which is a huge factor. Casually play at your own will.

Anet won’t release average concurrent player numbers because it doesn’t put them in good light. If the average concurrent playerbase was really at a high number, anet would have no problem at all releasing those numbers, it would be a tremendous selling point.

And to whoever said this was a PvE centric game , well that’s why the concurrent playerbase numbers have been steadily dropping. PvP / WvW was the endgame for A LOT of players and a solid chunk of them have abandonded ship

A lot of the big time MMORPGS had great sustainability because of a good PvP scene (both large scale PvP and small scale). Good PvE also has its place, don’t get me wrong, but in GW2, the development is COMPLETELY ONE SIDED. Look at how much PvE gets updated compared to WvW/sPvP, that tells me everything I need to know.

I promise you concurrent player base numbers would climb if sPvP/WvW got a big re-vamp because a lot of players would return just for that alone.

MauricioCezar.2673:

Any list that shows LoL and Minecraft as a 1st places is totally discredited.

But talking about gw2, at least for me, is the best piece of cake in the market atm. And I tried almost every other mmos that came around lately.

So facts are discredited. Oh world.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Ok OP, so to summarize, looking at Raptr, Steam, Xfire & Overwolf, the top 3-4 PC games have a large population, whereas the rest are small, including GW2.
GW2 is financially well, as per NCSoft’s earning report, with it’s small population.
No sarcasm.

It’s not small, if it’s like in the top ten, it’s just not huge. All size is relative. Didn’t anyone ever tell you that?

Relative to the top 3-4 it’s small, so it’s small.

What is it relative to #20. lol

Anyway the top game is completely free to play.

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Ok OP, so to summarize, looking at Raptr, Steam, Xfire & Overwolf, the top 3-4 PC games have a large population, whereas the rest are small, including GW2.
GW2 is financially well, as per NCSoft’s earning report, with it’s small population.
No sarcasm.

It’s not small, if it’s like in the top ten, it’s just not huge. All size is relative. Didn’t anyone ever tell you that?

Relative to the top 3-4 it’s small, so it’s small.

What is it relative to #20. lol

Anyway the top game is completely free to play.

You must have a tiny set of vocabulary. Hey, look, I even slipped in the word for you.
And yes, the top game has a massive number of registered players, huge twitch viewership, huge hours logged compared to the others and huge concurrency. Up to you to piece the information together.

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Ok OP, so to summarize, looking at Raptr, Steam, Xfire & Overwolf, the top 3-4 PC games have a large population, whereas the rest are small, including GW2.
GW2 is financially well, as per NCSoft’s earning report, with it’s small population.
No sarcasm.

It’s not small, if it’s like in the top ten, it’s just not huge. All size is relative. Didn’t anyone ever tell you that?

Relative to the top 3-4 it’s small, so it’s small.

What is it relative to #20. lol

Anyway the top game is completely free to play.

Hearthstone has over 10 million registered users and its number 9 on this list… its defintely not relative to even the top 10

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Ok OP, so to summarize, looking at Raptr, Steam, Xfire & Overwolf, the top 3-4 PC games have a large population, whereas the rest are small, including GW2.
GW2 is financially well, as per NCSoft’s earning report, with it’s small population.
No sarcasm.

It’s not small, if it’s like in the top ten, it’s just not huge. All size is relative. Didn’t anyone ever tell you that?

Relative to the top 3-4 it’s small, so it’s small.

What is it relative to #20. lol

Anyway the top game is completely free to play.

You must have a tiny set of vocabulary. Hey, look, I even slipped in the word for you.
And yes, the top game has a massive number of registered players, huge twitch viewership, huge hours logged compared to the others and huge concurrency. Up to you to piece the information together.

The way I read it, and of course you can read it any way you want, there are six games higher than Guild Wars 2, but only one of them is an MMORPG, which is WoW. If you really want to compare numbers, the most popular free to play Moba is going to have more users than even the most popular MMO. But Guild Wars 2 has a purchase price and some of the games above it don’t. So it having more people playing means what exactly? Compare apples to apples maybe?

The thing is, Guild Wars 2, for a 2 year old MMO in a crowded field, with so many free MMOs out there should be happy to be on that list at all let alone near the top of it.

In your desire to prove that this game isn’t doing well, you’re proving just the opposite. Thanks.

The only thing worse than doom and gloomers is the eternal optimists this community has. So easily entertained and needing justification and vindication to enjoy this game. GW2 is fairly popular yet many of my friends quit, my guild has seen a loss of lots of players and sees an influx of more. The ebb and flow of the game changes with time.

If the game was full of people, they wouldn’t have put in megaservers now would they? People were complaining about empty servers and lack of people for events. Even with them some zones are void of people. I think the game is at an okay spot and will always have a spot where it’s not the top but never the bottom. GW2 has it’s perks and a long way to go.

I like the fast paced game play and how the game does it’s quests… hope more future mmos do the samething. Although I’m currently taking a break until class reworks are done, can’t be bothered with doing dailies now. I hope this motivates the GW2 team to really bring their a game to reach the top. Also hope they give up on the whole e-sports thing, let’s face it GW 2 will never, EVER, EVER be an e-sport but it can be a top MMO for sure.

Sunshine.4680:

The only thing worse than doom and gloomers is the eternal optimists this community has. So easily entertained and needing justification and vindication to enjoy this game. GW2 is fairly popular yet many of my friends quit, my guild has seen a loss of lots of players and sees an influx of more. The ebb and flow of the game changes with time.

If the game was full of people, they wouldn’t have put in megaservers now would they? People were complaining about empty servers and lack of people for events. Even with them some zones are void of people. I think the game is at an okay spot and will always have a spot where it’s not the top but never the bottom. GW2 has it’s perks and a long way to go.

I like the fast paced game play and how the game does it’s quests… hope more future mmos do the samething. Although I’m currently taking a break until class reworks are done, can’t be bothered with doing dailies now. I hope this motivates the GW2 team to really bring their a game to reach the top. Also hope they give up on the whole e-sports thing, let’s face it GW 2 will never, EVER, EVER be an e-sport but it can be a top MMO for sure.

Your post is correct except for one bit. The bit about why mega servers were put in. The thing is, a lot of people guested to the three busiest servers, causing those servers to overflow and other servers to be empty.

There were often multiple overflows on TC but no one on the servers causing the multiple overflows. TC people complained all the time (Blackgate people too) about not being able to get on their own server because of guesting.

This distributes people in a fairer manner.

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Ok OP, so to summarize, looking at Raptr, Steam, Xfire & Overwolf, the top 3-4 PC games have a large population, whereas the rest are small, including GW2.
GW2 is financially well, as per NCSoft’s earning report, with it’s small population.
No sarcasm.

It’s not small, if it’s like in the top ten, it’s just not huge. All size is relative. Didn’t anyone ever tell you that?

Relative to the top 3-4 it’s small, so it’s small.

What is it relative to #20. lol

Anyway the top game is completely free to play.

You must have a tiny set of vocabulary. Hey, look, I even slipped in the word for you.
And yes, the top game has a massive number of registered players, huge twitch viewership, huge hours logged compared to the others and huge concurrency. Up to you to piece the information together.

The way I read it, and of course you can read it any way you want, there are six games higher than Guild Wars 2, but only one of them is an MMORPG, which is WoW. If you really want to compare numbers, the most popular free to play Moba is going to have more users than even the most popular MMO. But Guild Wars 2 has a purchase price and some of the games above it don’t. So it having more people playing means what exactly? Compare apples to apples maybe?

The thing is, Guild Wars 2, for a 2 year old MMO in a crowded field, with so many free MMOs out there should be happy to be on that list at all let alone near the top of it.

In your desire to prove that this game isn’t doing well, you’re proving just the opposite. Thanks.

Oh look, shifting goal posts now.
And your petty stunt to imply I’m trying to prove the game isn’t doing well? Wow, bravo. Good stretch of imagination.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Ok OP, so to summarize, looking at Raptr, Steam, Xfire & Overwolf, the top 3-4 PC games have a large population, whereas the rest are small, including GW2.
GW2 is financially well, as per NCSoft’s earning report, with it’s small population.
No sarcasm.

It’s not small, if it’s like in the top ten, it’s just not huge. All size is relative. Didn’t anyone ever tell you that?

Relative to the top 3-4 it’s small, so it’s small.

What is it relative to #20. lol

Anyway the top game is completely free to play.

You must have a tiny set of vocabulary. Hey, look, I even slipped in the word for you.
And yes, the top game has a massive number of registered players, huge twitch viewership, huge hours logged compared to the others and huge concurrency. Up to you to piece the information together.

The way I read it, and of course you can read it any way you want, there are six games higher than Guild Wars 2, but only one of them is an MMORPG, which is WoW. If you really want to compare numbers, the most popular free to play Moba is going to have more users than even the most popular MMO. But Guild Wars 2 has a purchase price and some of the games above it don’t. So it having more people playing means what exactly? Compare apples to apples maybe?

The thing is, Guild Wars 2, for a 2 year old MMO in a crowded field, with so many free MMOs out there should be happy to be on that list at all let alone near the top of it.

In your desire to prove that this game isn’t doing well, you’re proving just the opposite. Thanks.

Oh look, shifting goal posts now.
And your petty stunt to imply I’m trying to prove the game isn’t doing well? Wow, bravo. Good stretch of imagination.

People can read your post history and figure that out. I’m out of here. Feel free to get the last word.