Guild Wars 2

@Tuluum: You may have mentioned previously but I missed it, what level are you?

The prices do get downright step, which I am fine with for particular situations (convenience), not a penalty for me trying to hang out with some friends.

nlgray.5846:

Back to the point, no one has provided a reason why an 80 should not have to weigh the risk/rewards for fast travel just like a level 1, as stated in my previous post.

Ok… How about this?

nlgray.5846:

If you constantly use way points, you should be broke, it’s working as intended. The real issue is people should not be punished for grouping with lower level friends.

That seems like a good reason to me.

edit: Or am I misunderstanding you? Are you saying that level 1’s actually have to weigh the risk/reward of fast travel? I never felt like that until higher levels. Well, don’t get me wrong. It used to just feel like long distance travel seemed kind of expensive. That felt fine and made sense.

I’m still amazed that some people thrive on being punished.

So you should vote for my “summon stone” solution if you’re not monetarily motivated. =)

EDIT:
RE: Are you saying that level 1’s actually have to weigh the risk/reward of fast travel?

To a certain degree. From personal experience, I was naïve and did not notice the scaling until my 50’s.

A level 1 may not be wrestling with the same grandiose end-game challenges but he/she would be wise to take it into consideration when playing. If not, don’t come crying to me if you cannot afford your trait book.

nlgray.5846:

So you should vote for my “summon stone” solution if you’re not monetarily motivated. =)

I don’t like it as much as zone scaling because it doesn’t offer anything to the solo player who just feels like going random places on a whim or going back for low level zone completion.

Anet should consider that high WP costs make players less willing to go back to early zone to either play alone or with their low level friends.

Honestly being punished so much for traveling is bad design.
Costs should be halved at the very least.

WP costs are also shared among most reviewer sites as a flaw of GW2.
We’re not alone, everyone can see it.

Being punished for dying is ok, being punished for traveling doesn’t make much sense beside getting people to crowd zones.

Redundant game design to me, I would like to hear a valid reason from an ArenaNet employee why they have this. In GW1 they were strongly against this, but now suddenly they are adding redundant stuff like WP costs and repair costs, quite coincidentally with the cash gem shop which seem to be the only possible reason things like these exist.

Khristophoros.7194:

It’s been said many times in this thread. The costs are high enough to make many players think twice before they go do something social in another zone, go help a friend, or go back to finish fully completing a low level zone.

The costs are high enough to limit how often players will choose to do those things. Those factors have been seriously bothering me ever since I hit level 60 or so.

I am obviously aware it has been stated in the thread already, which is why I asked if you would mind expanding further.

As I said already, wealth seems to grow regardless of how many waypoints I use. Though, I tend to use them to get to the other side of the map, or other zones, and very rarely if they are within 30 seconds or so of running. I switch zones generally 4-5 times at the very least in a couple hour play session, fwiw. I also use waypoints to go to 90% of DE’s that are announced in chat and constantly use them to go help others. I still notice my wealth growing.

So, it seems that there isnt any objective reason other than it doesnt allow for faster acquisition of gold. In this respect, even if the gold sink was applied elsewhere with the same efficacy, that same aspect would be present. Which seems to make that specific idea a moot point.

It seems the dislike for it is that it causes some people to recognize it costs in-game money in the first place, even though it doesnt necessarily cause an overall loss of earnings.

I am just trying to understand the perspective, because I currently dont. I never plan around waypoints, nor do I put any thought into whether or not it will be “worth my time.” I use them constantly, still grow my wallet, and just cant quite see where the issue resides. Perhaps I would understand better if you were to explain it to me, which is why I asked if you would expand in the first place.

nlgray.5846:

@Tuluum: You may have mentioned previously but I missed it, what level are you?

The prices do get downright step, which I am fine with for particular situations (convenience), not a penalty for me trying to hang out with some friends.

I only have one level 80 currently. Some other low levels too.

I actually think the waypoint costs are beneficial, in order to control the economy. It prevents gold spammers from ruining the market (look at D3).

Gold isn’t hard to make, once you realize how to make money. Loot literally everything and sell items with high or decent orders, then you’ll make money very easily. I’m Lvl 58 and I already have 5G, even after buying all my class manuals.

Fox.1054:

Redundant game design to me, I would like to hear a valid reason from an ArenaNet employee why they have this. In GW1 they were strongly against this, but now suddenly they are adding redundant stuff like WP costs and repair costs, quite coincidentally with the cash gem shop which seem to be the only possible reason things like these exist.

While I obviously disagree with the dislike of waypoint cost (I see the longterm benefit towards the overall game economy).. I feel repair costs, especially in PvP and dungeons, are very discouraging to playing those parts of the game. They could exist as effective gold sinks, while still allowing for wealth accrual, but they currently do not. There is a very high chance of losing in-game money to do these things, sometimes significant amounts.

Tuluum.9638:

Khristophoros.7194:

It’s been said many times in this thread. The costs are high enough to make many players think twice before they go do something social in another zone, go help a friend, or go back to finish fully completing a low level zone.

The costs are high enough to limit how often players will choose to do those things. Those factors have been seriously bothering me ever since I hit level 60 or so.

I am obviously aware it has been stated in the thread already, which is why I asked if you would mind expanding further.

As I said already, wealth seems to grow regardless of how many waypoints I use. Though, I tend to use them to get to the other side of the map, or other zones, and very rarely if they are within 30 seconds or so of running. I switch zones generally 4-5 times at the very least in a couple hour play session, fwiw. I also use waypoints to go to 90% of DE’s that are announced in chat and constantly use them to go help others. I still notice my wealth growing.

So, it seems that there isnt any objective reason other than it doesnt allow for faster acquisition of gold. In this respect, even if the gold sink was applied elsewhere with the same efficacy, that same aspect would be present. Which seems to make that specific idea a moot point.

It seems the dislike for it is that it causes some people to recognize it costs in-game money in the first place, even though it doesnt necessarily cause an overall loss of earnings.

I am just trying to understand the perspective, because I currently dont. I never plan around waypoints, nor do I put any thought into whether or not it will be “worth my time.” I use them constantly, still grow my wallet, and just cant quite see where the issue resides. Perhaps I would understand better if you were to explain it to me, which is why I asked if you would expand in the first place.

The cost is high enough that it makes me consider how much it impacts my wealth gain, though my wealth gain has stayed pretty healthy for the whole time I’ve been playing so far. It still has a negative impact on my playing experience regardless of the actual objective effect because it makes me consider how it impacts my wealth gain.

The psychological effect is that it brings farming and wealth gain to mind when I’m not currently interested in those things, like when I want to go socialize or do something else that’s unrelated to wealth gain. It bothers me to have that brought to mind at times when I don’t want to think about it.

It’s kind of difficult to weigh the real cost. How much am I spending over the long haul on this stuff? How does it affect my farming efficiency? These are things I don’t want to even calculate. It breaks the immersion for me to step back and do math on this. I’m fine with passing up potential min/maxing opportunities but when it’s forced into the foreground it becomes very annoying and stressful for me.

Azzras.8041:

I’m still amazed that some people thrive on being punished.

What you may call punishment; some call it risk versus reward. Risk versus reward requires problem solving and makes use of experience, unlike being punished.

Want to travel from A to B to save you time (convenience) = Risk versus reward

Want to group with some low level friends (the scaling system was designed for this, right?) but I have to pay large fee = Punishment

yes please, lower waypoint costs or introduce mounts.

Khristophoros.7194:

The cost is high enough that it makes me consider how much it impacts my wealth gain, though my wealth gain has stayed pretty healthy for the whole time I’ve been playing so far. It still has a negative impact on my playing experience regardless of the actual objective effect because it makes me consider how it impacts my wealth gain.

The psychological effect is that it brings farming and wealth gain to mind when I’m not currently interested in those things, like when I want to go socialize or do something else that’s unrelated to wealth gain. It bothers me to have that brought to mind at times when I don’t want to think about it.

It’s kind of difficult to weigh the real cost. How much am I spending over the long haul on this stuff? How does it affect my farming efficiency? These are things I don’t want to even calculate. It breaks the immersion for me to step back and do math on this. I’m fine with passing up potential min/maxing opportunities but when it’s forced into the foreground it becomes very annoying and stressful for me.

Thank you for taking your time to explain it a bit more. I think I get where you are coming from. Having a cost associated with something which you are using frequently tends to constantly remind you of your wallet when you would rather have it be something that just grows behind the scenes without bringing it to mind?

It brought it to my awareness as well, though I just observed to see if it caused an overall loss in my wallet due to how much I used waypoints (since I do use them quite a bit). When it didnt, I just shrugged my shoulders and moved on. Different strokes, and all that.

Fox.1054:

Redundant game design to me, I would like to hear a valid reason from an ArenaNet employee why they have this. In GW1 they were strongly against this, but now suddenly they are adding redundant stuff like WP costs and repair costs, quite coincidentally with the cash gem shop which seem to be the only possible reason things like these exist.

Seconded. Was this added purely for the economic reasons we all know? And does that really outweigh the benefits that made them implement free travel in the first game? I would love to find out.

Katie Feathermoore.5031:

Seconded. Was this added purely for the economic reasons we all know? And does that really outweigh the benefits that made them implement free travel in the first game? I would love to find out.

I think it will be interesting to see how effective it is longterm. As for now, the gold sinks most certainly do what they are supposed to do, as we can see evidenced by how many people are voicing their opinions on the lack of ability to make gold. At least to the extent they desire, as they can still make money.

I think in implementing it in something which cant necessarily be avoided, like waypoints, is a way to reach more users with economic restrictions. It allows for more control over the direction of the economy. If someone could suggest another way to effectively implement a gold sink that would impact as large of a percentage as waypoints, I would be interested to hear it!

The way it stands now, it is almost a forced equality amongst the playerbase. Whether or not this is “right” is up for debate, but it would certainly make it more difficult to obtain market domination for a small section of the game population. This is because the restrictions on wealth accrual apply to the vast majority of users. This is also complemented by having a cross-server trading facility and anti-farm code, allowing for distinct control of the growth of wealth of the overall playerbase with relative equality.

I can undoubtedly see some issues that may arise, as well as workarounds to still gain market advantage, but it remains to be seen how well this system works out in terms of its purpose. As for now, it seems to be working quite well, but it is very, very early in the games life.

nlgray.5846:

Azzras.8041:

I’m still amazed that some people thrive on being punished.

What you may call punishment; some call it risk versus reward. Risk versus reward requires problem solving and makes use of experience, unlike being punished.

Want to travel from A to B to save you time (convenience) = Risk versus reward

Want to group with some low level friends (the scaling system was designed for this, right?) but I have to pay large fee = Punishment

Going into the Underworld for 1000 gold is a risk.
Teleporting to a place you need to go to help a friend shouldn’t be a risk.

I think the WP system needs the amount at least halved in price. It is ridiculous even moving within the level 1-15 zone costs 1 sil 34… like as if. That is just a WP right beside the one I am standing on. There’s no way that is “cheap” transportation.

Again: thanks for respecting my time and valuing it so much, Arenanet. Liars.

Ok…usually I agree to anything that has to do with traveling using the waypoint…idk about the cost, it hasn’t bothered me yet but I can see some getting bothered by it because it shouldn’t prevent someone from playing with someone else, but…telling others to walk…or that it is a luxury, debates everything that has been said before by other users when say…the mount topic appears…

Some say they want mounts and the counter argument is that there are waypoints…
I don’t want mounts,hate them…just so we’re clear on that, but if ppl tell others to walk, then mounts start looking quite attractive. Waypoints shouldn’t be a luxury, they should be quite norml considering u find them for map completion…there are so many, and they were easily used in GW1 for travel…not to mention the above statement of mine, considering this the alternative to mounts…which I love (it being the alternative).

Fox.1054:

nlgray.5846:

Azzras.8041:

I’m still amazed that some people thrive on being punished.

What you may call punishment; some call it risk versus reward. Risk versus reward requires problem solving and makes use of experience, unlike being punished.

Want to travel from A to B to save you time (convenience) = Risk versus reward

Want to group with some low level friends (the scaling system was designed for this, right?) but I have to pay large fee = Punishment

Going into the Underworld for 1000 gold is a risk.
Teleporting to a place you need to go to help a friend shouldn’t be a risk.

Here’s an idea. Add entry fees to explorable dungeons. A better gold sink imo.

Just sell some of the garbage you collect, don’t salvage everything.

Maybe the waypoint costs should be scaled according to zone and not level. If you are porting around low level areas, the costs should remain low. It will mean people with lower level friends don’t mind porting in to help their buddies. Porting around higher level areas should remain the same (maybe cut slightly). To again, give incentive for players to port to their friends in higher level areas, perhaps make all initial jumps to a different zone cheap with porting within the zone the same price as it is now.

yeah its cost too much. i do event and get 1s 40c reward, teleport nearest waypoint cost 1s 40c…. the hell?

If you make City WP’s free to travel to from anywhere then it will discourage people from going out of the cities. This would make the DE system fall down because there will be nobody around to do group events.

I say lower the waypoint cost if you like, but don’t make any more free.

XD You can’t even farm now

It’s already free to get into a city just by going to WvW and jumping through the Lion’s Arch portal. That’s justification enough to make Anywhere→City jumps free.

Munrock.3092:

It’s already free to get into a city just by going to WvW and jumping through the Lion’s Arch portal. That’s justification enough to make Anywhere->City jumps free.

So why not just make it free to jump to any city?
Why take the extra time to get to LA and then go to the city you want?

Cool if you have super fast computer and everything but what if a poor person was on old machine and it takes 40 seconds to transfer locations?

+1 … too expensive at higher levels .. and runnin speed is becoming ridiculas to travel half a continent away coz you become unable to afford the travels. no mounts = make costs less plz …

Fox.1054:

Going into the Underworld for 1000 gold is a risk.
Teleporting to a place you need to go to help a friend shouldn’t be a risk.

I agree somewhat, we should be able to group with friends without a huge fee but moving from WP to WP as a common method of travel should have the “risk” of the poor house for those that fail at fund management.

@Khristophoros: Like the “dungeon toll” idea but doesn’t effect PvPers.

Ditto, the waypoint costs need to be drastically reduced if not removed. I have plenty of gold all the time, that’s not the problem…it just doesn’t add anything to the game.

Rizzy.8293:

Munrock.3092:

It’s already free to get into a city just by going to WvW and jumping through the Lion’s Arch portal. That’s justification enough to make Anywhere->City jumps free.

So why not just make it free to jump to any city?
Why take the extra time to get to LA and then go to the city you want?

Cool if you have super fast computer and everything but what if a poor person was on old machine and it takes 40 seconds to transfer locations?

Do you not know what justification means (which would be fine if English isn’t your main language)? I’m saying that the fact that getting to cities by going via WvW/Lion’s Arch is free, is all the reason you need to make waypoints to cities free.

WP costs should be 1s at MAX distance and work down from there.

Tuluum.9638:

It also seems to be a percentage of possible reward within the level range, though I dont care enough to figure out if its consistent.

This is actually the important part about it. You are correct in money scaling pretty good all the way up. It’s what happens when you go back down to play with a friend.

level 1-10 zone waypoint usage at level 1-10 is copper and rewards from quests/events are also copper.

level 1-10 zone waypoint usage at level 80 is multiple silver and rewards from quests/events are STILL copper.

This kinda encourages thoughts of “Do I want to go grind somewhere else later for the convenience of helping my friend?” or “I guess I’ll be out some silver to help out my friend.”. These don’t come up much when you’re in a level appropriate zone. Maybe it’s a good gold sink for the economy. It is also is a great way to get people to feel hesitant about grouping with their friends, especially if they are broke at the moment and want to run a dungeon later or save up for a vanity item.