Guild Wars 2

Yes, I trust them. I enjoy the game immensely. I just play what I enjoy doing and slowly plod my way to my Legendary, which I expect to get maybe a year or two down the line.

The Devs will do what they do, and in the end, it really doesn’t affect my enjoyment of the game at all. Will I experience some short-term raging? Of course. But I value the thousand hours I’ve spent on it, and look forward to the thousands more I expect to spend on it. This is their game, they have their own vision. While it may conflict with mine sometimes it ultimately doesn’t matter to me personally because the game, at its core, is so fun to play.

Sorry to hear that you’re not liking the direction they are taking it to, though. Because this is my own opinion, and obviously doesn’t apply to you. Maybe you should take a break from it?

Also…

I’m only giving my own opinion.

I can no longer trust that the developers of GW2 have our best interests at heart

Should change that to “mine”

Hmmm. I don’t necessarily agree with you completely, but I can see where you’re coming from.

To address the central point you were saying: trust. It’s odd, I rarely feel blind trust towards anyone, I normally reserve something because I know somewhere, my interests and theirs might not coincide. And when I pick up a game, especially an evolving one, I know my interests are likely not at the heart of the developer.

(I also tend to take marketing with a grain of salt. I’d give examples outside of GW2 but we’d be here all day.)

So really, I approached this game saying:

“Okay, now, we have an agreement. You’re not going to charge me a monthly fee, and I’m not going to tell you to go jump in the river. I’m going to put in around three hours a day on average, and you’re going to allow me to have a bit of fun and not spend two of those hours waiting to get started on something which takes three hours to complete.”

I do still trust ArenaNet, and the various devs that represent them. Granted, that may be because of a pseudo-personal relationship built up over years of pre-launch marketing which made me feel involved and encouraged me to see them in the best light… but I don’t think it’s just that.

For me, the key is that ArenaNet are working for the long term here. They’ve had a game running for seven years and more, they’re planning for GW2 to last as long. For that to happen with GW2’s more dynamic style, there needs to be groundwork laid and seeds planted – this means story openings, but also stuff like ascended gear will (I feel) fit into a long range plan. Right in the here and now, it may not seem to make sense, but we’ve already seen things gradually slot into place as they develop other areas to support it.

I think they’ve got things they’re aiming for, and I don’t think they’re lying about those aims. Whether or not they’re going about it in the best way is always debatable, but I do think they have a plan and I do trust that this won’t just dissolve into another every-other-MMO. If nothing else, I don’t think that would actually benefit them at all, and I think they know that.

When you have a company developing new content on a monthly basis, new stuff will have bugs – that’s inevitable, I think. It’s a big game. A little tolerance of their working conditions would be kind. I’m planning on sticking around for the long term personally, and I have some faith that in a year’s time I’ll be able to look back at older additions to the game and see where they were going with it all.

Expectation management. I don’t know who is doing a worse job – GW1 players or Anet in general.

This is a game released late, but still early like all big MMOs, around six months ago, stepping back from a mature product to one that is evolving is pretty much what is going on – there is constant change but never the change that “I want”.

I think a large chunk of the (vocal) player base has come from WoW, GW1, and other similar matured products… where the forums are still filled with people who “have not has X fixed since patch 1.2.1.3”.

Ursan.7846:

Also…

I’m only giving my own opinion.

I can no longer trust that the developers of GW2 have our best interests at heart

Should change that to “mine”

No, it’s correct as it’s written.

It is my personal opinion that the developers do not have the general player base’s interests, thoughts, and opinions at heart when they go about developing new content.

If my interests aren’t the same as the majority’s interests, then fine, I’ll just have to deal with it. But if the majority’s interests aren’t being catered to, either, then we have a problem.

they have the general players opinion, they have data.

Avatar.1923:

they have the general players opinion, they have data.

Data is not opinion, because while data is generally specific and precise . . . it is also unchanging.

Opinions change over time.

critickitten.1498:

It is my personal opinion that the developers do not have the general player base’s interests, thoughts, and opinions at heart when they go about developing new content.

Because Anet made this game just for the heck of it? Of course they want to keep the general player base happy.

It’s incorrect because you’re applying your own opinions on the general player base. You see things they do and you think they aren’t catering to your interests/thoughts/opinions. That’s perfectly fine. I’m sure there are plenty of other players who really enjoy everything Anet has given us so far and love everything you hate. Thus is individuality.

Also, lets not ignore the fact that often times, what a player “Wants” is not necessarily good to the longevity of the game itself.

Again, I’m so sorry to hear the game is causing you such distress. I am not being sarcastic in anyway, I do feel sympathetic, because I want everyone to also love the game that I love. But if the direction they’re taking is really not what you’re looking for, I suggest you take a break. Like a jilted lover, the more you think about her the more pain you inflict on yourself.

Ursan.7846:

Because Anet made this game just for the heck of it? Of course they want to keep the general player base happy.

Exhibit A: Electronic Arts.

They sure don’t make games to make their players happy. :p

It’s incorrect because you’re applying your own opinions on the general player base. You see things they do and you think they aren’t catering to your interests/thoughts/opinions. That’s perfectly fine. I’m sure there are plenty of other players who really enjoy everything Anet has given us so far and love everything you hate. Thus is individuality.

This is nothing shy of willfully misunderstanding what I’ve said.

I said in no uncertain terms that I’m perfectly fine with them pursuing a path that I don’t like so long as it appeals to the majority. But that isn’t what they’re doing.

Also, lets not ignore the fact that often times, what a player “Wants” is not necessarily good to the longevity of the game itself.

Agreed, but at this point, I would challenge you to locate one item in the game which was changed against the players’ wishes “for the benefit of the game”. Because I don’t think you’ll be able to find one that doesn’t cater to your own opinions, thus, proving the point I made above.

Again, I’m so sorry to hear the game is causing you such distress. I am not being sarcastic in anyway, I do feel sympathetic, because I want everyone to also love the game that I love. But if the direction they’re taking is really not what you’re looking for, I suggest you take a break. Like a jilted lover, the more you think about her the more pain you inflict on yourself.

The problem with taking a break is that I’ll return to a game that may be even further from the one I’d been told I was buying.

I’m complaining now in the hopes that I, and other players out there, don’t have to return to such a scenario later.

as gw1 player i agree completely. i feel let down by the things they did to gw1 in gw2. the list of “things i loved about gw1” is getting shorter each patch. it is a matter of time before this game becomes unrecognizable “not exactly wow clone”.

critickitten.1498:

Agreed, but at this point, I would challenge you to locate one item in the game which was changed against the players’ wishes “for the benefit of the game”. Because I don’t think you’ll be able to find one that doesn’t cater to your own opinions, thus, proving the point I made above.

I can name one minor one? Lionguard Lyns losing Black Lion Keys.

First off, I want to say I trust anet, I’m really in the same boat as Tobias Trueflight above. Do I agree with all of the changes they have made? No, but more than 75% of the content the have added I love. Do I feel like the game is a bit grindier than what it was touted? Yes, but way way better than other MMOs imo.

Martin Kerstein.3071:

Critickitten: You mention in your first paragraph that this is your opinion. I changed the thread title to reflect that (which you could have done in the first place yourself). The original thread title was sensationalist and broad to attract more views. I will change the title back to reflect that it is a personal opinion. If you change it once again, this thread will be locked and trashed.

Hey, um, could this be titled instead “Opinion:…” rather than as it reads right now?

Grand Xerxes.8012:

First off, I want to say I trust anet, I’m really in the same boat as Tobias Trueflight above. Do I agree with all of the changes they have made? No, but more than 75% of the content the have added I love. Do I feel like the game is a bit grindier than what it was touted? Yes, but way way better than other MMOs imo.

The latest thing I saw that I thought was grindy? “Shield Master” on my Warrior. Fun thing is I only have to do it once if I want to, though I bet there’s an easier way to earn it than “Shield Bash away!”

I think it’s not quite that the game has grind in it, or more than I’d want, it’s that it’s off the center of the dance floor so to speak. And very little of it feels like “I’m going to need to really work my butt off for ages to get this”.

critickitten.1498:

Exhibit A: Electronic Arts.

They sure don’t make games to make their players happy. :p

EA is an incredibly profitable company (as of now). They are definitely catering to their target audience correctly and keeping them happy.

critickitten.1498:

Agreed, but at this point, I would challenge you to locate one item in the game which was changed against the players’ wishes “for the benefit of the game”. Because I don’t think you’ll be able to find one that doesn’t cater to your own opinions, thus, proving the point I made above.

It’s a moot challenge, because none of us know now. The validation of the stuff they do will only come a year or two down the line, if not more. So we’ll see. Regardless though, in general I still will trust Devs over players when it comes to design decisions.

critickitten.1498:

The problem with taking a break is that I’ll return to a game that may be even further from the one I’d been told I was buying.

I’m complaining now in the hopes that I, and other players out there, don’t have to return to such a scenario later.

Very altruistic of you.

The ‘Expansions worth of content’ thing should be in your post. These last 2 patches sure haven’t felt like any expansion I’ve ever bought.

No idea who gave the go ahead to say that gem of a lie.

Neb.4170:

The ‘Expansions worth of content’ thing should be in your post. These last 2 patches sure haven’t felt like any expansion I’ve ever bought.

No idea who gave the go ahead to say that gem of a lie.

Hmmm.

- Lost Shores, Southsun Cove
- Fractals of the Mists
- Flame and Frost
- Daily revamp
- Guild Missions

Yes, I’ve had expansions with about this much content in them in previous games. And usually paid $20 for them, come to think of it.

critickitten.1498:

1) A lot of people have praised the new dailies as “easier to complete”, but not only is this grossly untrue in many cases, it’s missing the point to begin with. The original dailies were the best model not because they were “easy” or “hard”, but because they were built entirely around the mantra of “play the way you want to”.

Don’t forget – the original dailies were also “entirely optional”. Essentially they gave you some small bonuses of things you could get countless ways. Now they are under the classification of “sure it’s optional, but you might regret it, and for reasons you can’t even know yet.” Going from feeling “oh that’s a nice little bonus” to “oh I NEED to log in every day to collect this” is really, really bad.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Neb.4170:

The ‘Expansions worth of content’ thing should be in your post. These last 2 patches sure haven’t felt like any expansion I’ve ever bought.

No idea who gave the go ahead to say that gem of a lie.

Hmmm.

- Lost Shores, Southsun Cove
- Fractals of the Mists
- Flame and Frost
- Daily revamp
- Guild Missions

Yes, I’ve had expansions with about this much content in them in previous games. And usually paid $20 for them, come to think of it.

Lost shore and Fractals were December. Not January/February.

Flame and Frost amounts to nothing so far. There is very, very little to actually do.
Daily revamp is nice, but small change.
Guild missions, yep, I will give you that one.

An expansion this does not make.

critickitten.1498:

Disclaimer: What follows is entirely my opinion. So please, mods, do not bother changing the title. Everyone here knows that I’m only giving my own opinion. No one is going to be “confused”.

Now then….

I was asked recently by an avid defender of this game’s new policies a very simple question: what exactly in this new patch made me so angry? Naturally, I had a nice big list of things prepared and I could have riddled them all off, but as I thought about it some more, I realized that my problem with this patch, and indeed with most of the patches, all really boil down to one thing, one core flaw that defines all of the problems I’ve experienced with this game….trust.

Namely, the fact that I can no longer trust that the developers of GW2 have our best interests at heart. And as a loyal fan of the franchise since GW1, that actually hurts an awful lot to admit, because up until recently, ArenaNet was probably one of the only developers out there that I felt I could trust completely.

But I’ve felt this way ever since the game’s beta, when I saw major issues plaguing the game and the devs completely ignoring those reports, pushing forward with a release of a game that we all knew wasn’t ready yet. And it’s only gotten worse from there. You’ve no doubt seen a thousand rants about November, and other such things, so I’ll try to spare you as much of that as possible. Really, it’s not specific events for me….it’s the general trend of it all. GW2 is still a great game, one that I spend much of my free time playing. But my play habits have changed considerably, and not (in my opinion) for the better.

This game no longer feels like a game that “takes everything I love about GW1”, nor a game that encourages me to “play the way I want to”.

I’ll try to explain my stance, using more recent updates as examples.

1) A lot of people have praised the new dailies as “easier to complete”, but not only is this grossly untrue in many cases, it’s missing the point to begin with. The original dailies were the best model not because they were “easy” or “hard”, but because they were built entirely around the mantra of “play the way you want to”. Kills, kill variety, gathering, events. Things you could do nearly anywhere in the game. You could do them on your Lvl 1 or your Lvl 80, in any map zone you wanted. That provided a massive amount of variety that the new options are utterly devoid of. Kills in specific regions? Dungeon runs? Keg Brawl? These aren’t options that let you “play the way you want to”, they’re options that imply that maybe you’re not playing the game the way the devs want you to.

2) One of my favorite features of GW1 was the concept of horizontal progression. I had come from a lot of MMOs that focused around getting the biggest numbers, then chasing the next set of big numbers, and eventually that grind became too much for me, leading to me falling behind and quitting. GW2, I fear, is on its way towards that same fate. The devs have admitted that they like vertical progression and will continue with it moving forward….which, for someone like me who was disillusioned with other MMOs, that’s a deathblow to the game that “takes everything I love about GW2”, because it’s not taking one of my favorite elements from GW1: the fact that I never felt obligated to gear grind. I could leave, come back, and still be a competitor. Skill always felt more important than stats. Whether you consider Ascended to be a grind or not is personal preference, but the fact remains that it won’t be the end of their progression plans. They’ve said as much. And that bothers me, knowing that I could leave now, come back in two years, and be significantly behind other players in terms of performance, even if I was the better player.

3) The devs have a tendency of giving out no information, or worse, wrong and conflicting information. We’ve been told that the precursor system was actively being worked on, and then Colin comes along to tell us that it’s not even likely to happen until April (at the earliest). Colin comes along and talks about how they’re working on new rewards systems that could yield precursors (getting people’s hopes up that the laurel system would have some manner of obtaining them) and then backtracks on it within days. We’re told that the devs are working on condition damage, and yet not working on it. That culling will be fixed, and then a patch comes out and makes it worse. That AoE will be nerfed across the board, and yet on a case-by-case basis. I don’t feel as though I can trust the developers themselves any more, because they don’t say the same things, and some of the claims they do make are later revealed to be outright false or misleading.

Very well said!

Neb.4170:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Neb.4170:

The ‘Expansions worth of content’ thing should be in your post. These last 2 patches sure haven’t felt like any expansion I’ve ever bought.

No idea who gave the go ahead to say that gem of a lie.

Hmmm.

- Lost Shores, Southsun Cove
- Fractals of the Mists
- Flame and Frost
- Daily revamp
- Guild Missions

Yes, I’ve had expansions with about this much content in them in previous games. And usually paid $20 for them, come to think of it.

Lost shore and Fractals were December. Not January/February.

Flame and Frost amounts to nothing so far. There is very, very little to actually do.
Daily revamp is nice, but small change.
Guild missions, yep, I will give you that one.

An expansion this does not make.

Hmmm. “Lost Dungeons of Norrath”. It was about on par with this. I think that was $20. I could be wrong.

kKagari.6804:

Martin Kerstein.3071:

Critickitten: You mention in your first paragraph that this is your opinion. I changed the thread title to reflect that (which you could have done in the first place yourself). The original thread title was sensationalist and broad to attract more views. I will change the title back to reflect that it is a personal opinion. If you change it once again, this thread will be locked and trashed.

Lol when I saw a red post in this topic I thought developers would be addressing the criticism they get for once.

How foolish of me!

I do have to admit, I had the same hope. I also find it interesting that they posted here, yet not the one they started…..

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Avatar.1923:

they have the general players opinion, they have data.

Data is not opinion, because while data is generally specific and precise . . . it is also unchanging.

Opinions change over time.

Data changes as well – unless you stop collecting it, of course.

Also, lol. Anet posts here only to threaten OP with thread deletion and insist that the posts contain only opinions (which everyone knows already). The content, of course, remains unaddressed.

I don’t get this complaining about the new dailies. Are you guys serious? Do you not realize you can pick and choose which dailies you want to complete? Or even just pick the ones you complete by accident while playing, as I often do, and then just do the one or two that are left which suit you best?

How is that worse than having no choice at all? Maybe I don’t want to gather, or craft. With the old system, well, tough luck, I had to. Now, I don’t.

That’s called an improvement. End of discussion.

Astralporing.1957:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Avatar.1923:

they have the general players opinion, they have data.

Data is not opinion, because while data is generally specific and precise . . . it is also unchanging.

Opinions change over time.

Data changes as well – unless you stop collecting it, of course.

I misstated, apparently, and now have to be slightly pedantic:

“Data collected at a specific time about a specific range does not change. Opinions held by particular individuals might possibly change over time, but this is not a certainty, and is void in the state of Wyoming.”

EA huh, I don’t know anyone who likes their Sims or sports games, I suspect their complete disregard for players has them on the cusp of going broke…

Sometimes a spin-off show comes out on TV that ends up capturing a very different audience than the original and has to evolve to meet the consumers it NOW has. Put back into this context – this game captured some of the JAG viewers but quickly realised that NCIS could get a lot more people watching it than some niche lawyer drama, but all the JAG kiddies wan’t to go back to the courtroom and corner offices.

1: Do you feel that you can trust every word the developers say?

No, nor do I feel that a lot of “trust” is required. Anet is not my wife, they are a company. The only trust I need to have with them is that they deliver me a product worth the $60 I paid for it. I feel they have done so, and much, much more. Is the game perfect? No. Is it worth $60? Oh god yes.

2: Or do you approach their announcements as I do with quite a bit of caution and skepticism these days?

I approach everything with caution. I believe something when I see it, not when someone talks about it. But the talk does let me know issues that are on the radar, which gives me hope that they will be resolved some time in the future.

I’d also like to add that I’m a veteran of many MMOs, and I think some people who make comments of this game being release half-baked either have very little MMO experience or have selective memory. GW2 is looking good in my eyes, and I’m confident that it will be improved and dialed in as time goes on.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Astralporing.1957:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Avatar.1923:

they have the general players opinion, they have data.

Data is not opinion, because while data is generally specific and precise . . . it is also unchanging.

Opinions change over time.

Data changes as well – unless you stop collecting it, of course.

I misstated, apparently, and now have to be slightly pedantic:

“Data collected at a specific time about a specific range does not change. Opinions held by particular individuals might possibly change over time, but this is not a certainty, and is void in the state of Wyoming.”

Data means nothing, however when in the hands of a group of knowledgeable and experienced people can be interpreted into Information. I can assure you that Anet like forum opinions – but love their data-derrived Information.

Just a quick note – it is in fact possible to identify more about the player base’s preferences and real opinions by observation, as opposed to discussion, in fact it is usually the prefferred way in MMO land.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I misstated, apparently, and now have to be slightly pedantic:

“Data collected at a specific time about a specific range does not change. Opinions held by particular individuals might possibly change over time, but this is not a certainty, and is void in the state of Wyoming.”

Doesn’t change anything. Opinions are data. Data collected at a specific time about specific range gives us an information about this range at this specific time. When time passes, this data may very well stop reflecting the range it was covering. The same is with opinions – we know that at certain time a certain group of people held a certain opinion about a certain matter. This also may be subjest to change with time. There’s no difference.

thisolderhead.5127:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Astralporing.1957:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Avatar.1923:

they have the general players opinion, they have data.

Data is not opinion, because while data is generally specific and precise . . . it is also unchanging.

Opinions change over time.

Data changes as well – unless you stop collecting it, of course.

I misstated, apparently, and now have to be slightly pedantic:

“Data collected at a specific time about a specific range does not change. Opinions held by particular individuals might possibly change over time, but this is not a certainty, and is void in the state of Wyoming.”

Data means nothing, however when in the hands of a group of knowledgeable and experienced people can be interpreted into Information. I can assure you that Anet like forum opinions – but love their data-derrived Information.

Just a quick note – it is in fact possible to identify more about the player base’s preferences and real opinions by observation, as opposed to discussion, in fact it is usually the prefferred way in MMO land.

True, on both counts. Data is just a figure and meaningless without context . . . but then once you start applying context you get into problems of whether or not you interpreted the data correctly. And then you potentially get mistakes, where you thought the data was telling you one thing but it wasn’t.

Extrapolation isn’t an exact science, after all. It’s an informed guess.

As for the second? Yeah, that’s really one of the other tools other than exit polls and surveys. People will lie their teeth off on surveys for various reasons. Of course, it is usually a valuable bit of info to ask for opinions and also observe actions, and discern motive if the two differ.

That last part is usually somewhat important.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Neb.4170:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Yes, I’ve had expansions with about this much content in them in previous games. And usually paid $20 for them, come to think of it.

Lost shore and Fractals were December. Not January/February.

Flame and Frost amounts to nothing so far. There is very, very little to actually do.
Daily revamp is nice, but small change.
Guild missions, yep, I will give you that one.

An expansion this does not make.

Hmmm. “Lost Dungeons of Norrath”. It was about on par with this. I think that was $20. I could be wrong.

I would call the above-mentioned DLCs worth of content not a full blown expansion. I paid $10 worth of gems instead of exchanging with gold as a small reward for the fracts when it first came out.

I am saving my money until they come up with a full blown expansion and fix longstanding bugs such as automove upon picking up stuff and the occasional can’t move but not immobilized/in text chat etc. bug

Astralporing.1957:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I misstated, apparently, and now have to be slightly pedantic:

“Data collected at a specific time about a specific range does not change. Opinions held by particular individuals might possibly change over time, but this is not a certainty, and is void in the state of Wyoming.”

Doesn’t change anything. Opinions are data. Data collected at a specific time about specific range gives us an information about this range at this specific time. When time passes, this data may very well stop reflecting the range it was covering. The same is with opinions – we know that at certain time a certain group of people held a certain opinion about a certain matter. This also may be subjest to change with time.

You’re so close, but still a little off.

Opinions once collected are still opinions. The record of the opinion is data. That recorded data does not change. Person A said “I like milk with chocolate syrup” at 9pm on Tuesday. If they decide at 9:01pm they no longer like milk with chocolate syrup, the original record is still data, though it is now data in sore need of being updated.

I stopped reading at the first paragraph. Some of the options are there for the simple reason people can choose what to do, or be enticed to try something new. For example, today you could’ve easily picked:

- Complete 5 Events
- Kill 5 Veterans
- Kill 30 wildlife
- Gather 20 Nodes
- Gain 1 level.

Bonus Choices:
- Spend 700 Karma.
- Kill 2 Champions

There you go, you can do this daily with the same exact amount of freedom you had with previous dailies. I can make example for the dailies of the past days, if need be. I am not reading the rest of the wall of text if just the first paragraph is so fallacious.

critickitten.1498:

Now then….

I was asked recently by an avid defender of this game’s new policies a very simple question: what exactly in this new patch made me so angry? Naturally, I had a nice big list of things prepared and I could have riddled them all off, but as I thought about it some more, I realized that my problem with this patch, and indeed with most of the patches, all really boil down to one thing, one core flaw that defines all of the problems I’ve experienced with this game….trust.

Namely, the fact that I can no longer trust that the developers of GW2 have our best interests at heart. And as a loyal fan of the franchise since GW1, that actually hurts an awful lot to admit, because up until recently, ArenaNet was probably one of the only developers out there that I felt I could trust completely.

But I’ve felt this way ever since the game’s beta, when I saw major issues plaguing the game and the devs completely ignoring those reports, pushing forward with a release of a game that we all knew wasn’t ready yet. And it’s only gotten worse from there. You’ve no doubt seen a thousand rants about November, and other such things, so I’ll try to spare you as much of that as possible. Really, it’s not specific events for me….it’s the general trend of it all. GW2 is still a great game, one that I spend much of my free time playing. But my play habits have changed considerably, and not (in my opinion) for the better.

This game no longer feels like a game that “takes everything I love about GW1”, nor a game that encourages me to “play the way I want to”.

I’ll try to explain my stance, using more recent updates as examples.

1) A lot of people have praised the new dailies as “easier to complete”, but not only is this grossly untrue in many cases, it’s missing the point to begin with. The original dailies were the best model not because they were “easy” or “hard”, but because they were built entirely around the mantra of “play the way you want to”. Kills, kill variety, gathering, events. Things you could do nearly anywhere in the game. You could do them on your Lvl 1 or your Lvl 80, in any map zone you wanted. That provided a massive amount of variety that the new options are utterly devoid of. Kills in specific regions? Dungeon runs? Keg Brawl? These aren’t options that let you “play the way you want to”, they’re options that imply that maybe you’re not playing the game the way the devs want you to.

2) One of my favorite features of GW1 was the concept of horizontal progression. I had come from a lot of MMOs that focused around getting the biggest numbers, then chasing the next set of big numbers, and eventually that grind became too much for me, leading to me falling behind and quitting. GW2, I fear, is on its way towards that same fate. The devs have admitted that they like vertical progression and will continue with it moving forward….which, for someone like me who was disillusioned with other MMOs, that’s a deathblow to the game that “takes everything I love about GW2”, because it’s not taking one of my favorite elements from GW1: the fact that I never felt obligated to gear grind. I could leave, come back, and still be a competitor. Skill always felt more important than stats. Whether you consider Ascended to be a grind or not is personal preference, but the fact remains that it won’t be the end of their progression plans. They’ve said as much. And that bothers me, knowing that I could leave now, come back in two years, and be significantly behind other players in terms of performance, even if I was the better player.

3) The devs have a tendency of giving out no information, or worse, wrong and conflicting information. We’ve been told that the precursor system was actively being worked on, and then Colin comes along to tell us that it’s not even likely to happen until April (at the earliest). Colin comes along and talks about how they’re working on new rewards systems that could yield precursors (getting people’s hopes up that the laurel system would have some manner of obtaining them) and then backtracks on it within days. We’re told that the devs are working on condition damage, and yet not working on it. That culling will be fixed, and then a patch comes out and makes it worse. That AoE will be nerfed across the board, and yet on a case-by-case basis. I don’t feel as though I can trust the developers themselves any more, because they don’t say the same things, and some of the claims they do make are later revealed to be outright false or misleading.

You do know you aren’t the only person in this world they make games for, don’t you? By no means are they able to make every freakin gamer happy nor do they evolve around only your desires.

They’ve said that they aren’t adding any new gear levels after ascended. They are going to add ascended armor and weapons, but nothing further after that point. I don’t know the exact interview or whatnot but you haven’t given us any links either.

And today I completed my dailies without realizing it just by playing the game, and I was in Orr. Didn’t feel like I was forced to do anything. The dailies also help educate new players on aspects of the game they likely haven’t encountered before.

Information about a developing game is never accurate because you cannot predict problems before they occur if you are attempting to create new content. Working on something and having it released are different things. The culling thing was likely released then a large problem was found related to it most likely so they removed it. I don’t know. It’s not my game. It would be interesting if they released information with every single little decision that they make, but that would be impractical and likely hamper progress through criticism of content that has not yet been tested or released.

Essentially I believe you have good reason to believe your viewpoint, but I disagree with you. Have a good day!

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

They’ve said that they aren’t adding any new gear levels after ascended. They are going to add ascended armor and weapons, but nothing further after that point. I don’t know the exact interview or whatnot but you haven’t given us any links either.

And today I completed my dailies without realizing it just by playing the game, and I was in Orr. Didn’t feel like I was forced to do anything. The dailies also help educate new players on aspects of the game they likely haven’t encountered before.

Information about a developing game is never accurate because you cannot predict problems before they occur if you are attempting to create new content. Working on something and having it released are different things. The culling thing was likely released then a large problem was found related to it most likely so they removed it. I don’t know. It’s not my game. It would be interesting if they released information with every single little decision that they make, but that would be impractical and likely hamper progress through criticism of content that has not yet been tested or released.

Essentially I believe you have good reason to believe your viewpoint, but I disagree with you. Have a good day!

They said they won’t add any new tiers of gear, this year.

critickitten.1498:

Agreed, but at this point, I would challenge you to locate one item in the game which was changed against the players’ wishes “for the benefit of the game”. Because I don’t think you’ll be able to find one that doesn’t cater to your own opinions, thus, proving the point I made above.

Actually, I just thought of a great example.

The Daily Dodger/Daily Combo.

Lots of people complained about it. They were buggy/hard to do/was forced to do these things. But in the end, I think a lot more people in the game actually knows about dodging/combo fields because of it, and that’s really good because they’re important aspects of the game.

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

They’ve said that they aren’t adding any new gear levels after ascended. They are going to add ascended armor and weapons, but nothing further after that point. I don’t know the exact interview or whatnot but you haven’t given us any links either.

What was said (and was a bone of contention at the time) was “we currently don’t have plans to”. Which all it says for certain is . . . they weren’t planning on it at that time. I don’t think they will anytime soon, but what I think and what really is don’t always meet.

And today I completed my dailies without realizing it just by playing the game, and I was in Orr. Didn’t feel like I was forced to do anything. The dailies also help educate new players on aspects of the game they likely haven’t encountered before.

And they also serve to entice people to look into parts of the games they weren’t interested in. “Hey if I kill 10 people in WvW I can knock out 20% of the daily . . . hmm, well maybe I can try it?” “What the heck is keg brawling? I guess I can give it a try for the daily.”

Daily Dodger was clearly (to me) a case of a tutorial masquerading as a daily. So was Daily Laurel Vendor.

Information about a developing game is never accurate because you cannot predict problems before they occur if you are attempting to create new content. Working on something and having it released are different things. The culling thing was likely released then a large problem was found related to it most likely so they removed it. I don’t know. It’s not my game. It would be interesting if they released information with every single little decision that they make, but that would be impractical and likely hamper progress through criticism of content that has not yet been tested or released.

It would be very interesting, but it would also possibly fall under “information we don’t want to give out about how our game actually works”. Some games where the source code is more open can get away with that, and some companies probably tell players a lot more than they should.

I also want to just remind you that Dailies are completely optional. If you don’t like them, then don’t do them.

It SOUNDS like you don’t want to do specific things for rewards, which sounds a lot like give everyone a single type of reward and a MASS market to spend it in that will allow you to purchase anything you want with your currency.

This doesn’t sound like fun to me. It sounds really really boring. It sounds like you might just be the kind of person who doesn’t like to try new things, and because of that, you insist that the developers are at fault for providing MORE than what you want.

If you want something in ANY game, you have to work for it. Even in solo-play console games. You can’t get a certain type of gear without beating a certain boss, or you can’t get that really awesome skill until you grind out 500 skill points fighting random battles….

I feel like what you are looking for is a trading card game. Or pokemon. Or a fighting game. A game that has a playstyle that is ONE thing and expectations are defined by its genre.

GW2 is many many things. You don’t have to do them all or like them all to have fun. And if you think you do, then it’s no wonder you aren’t having fun. The amount of content is huge.

That is MY opinion.

TL;DR – Trust as defined by the OP is meeting his specific expectations about how an MMO should reward players. GW2, instead, plays differently and has content the OP doesn’t want to play/try. My opinion is that OP needs to try new things in game for fun, or find a game that can meet his expectations.

I do not agree with this definitions of Trust.

Daily Dodger was a great tutorial for ‘get on your thief, get a spear, & go underwater.’ I had my dodge daily done once in 4 kills.

eta: Btw, no thief/spear/dodge nerfs, please. Thanks!

Derk.3189:

They said they won’t add any new tiers of gear, this year.

Found it.

Colin Johanson:

Our reward systems need to be exciting and include things you want to earn over time, but we don’t want to force our players on endless gear treadmills for new tiers of gear we add every six months.

You won’t see another tier between ascended and legendary in 2013, for example. Our goal will be to use our existing reward systems and build new ones that are fun and exciting that step away from the stale gear grind reward systems you see elsewhere.

I don’t see the implication that they’re adding more in the future. They just used the example that no more are coming this year and said they don’t want to force players onto endless gear treadmills. They used the time examples to indicate the difference that Guild Wars 2 has with other MMO’s of similar design.

I think a lot of what you are experiencing comes from dealing with a company which lacks experience.

This is ArenaNet’s first MMO, and their lack of experience in running one shows.

Warcraft had similar problems as they grew their MMO and learned some lessons the hard way.

Unfortunately, ArenaNet doesn’t seem to have a deep grasp of MMO history and is recreating classic mistakes.

I think they can recover from them, but it will be bumpy ride for us as they figure things out.

Here is a video back from 2007 where Warcraft’s founder talks about their mistakes and lessons learned:

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/5/How-to-Rule-the-World

• 17:25 – Dangers of Releasing a Game too early
• 39:40 – Process to Communicate with Players about Problems
• 43:50 – Importance of Testing
• 44:45 – Importance of Public Test Realm

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

Derk.3189:

They said they won’t add any new tiers of gear, this year.

Found it.

Colin Johanson:

Our reward systems need to be exciting and include things you want to earn over time, but we don’t want to force our players on endless gear treadmills for new tiers of gear we add every six months.

You won’t see another tier between ascended and legendary in 2013, for example. Our goal will be to use our existing reward systems and build new ones that are fun and exciting that step away from the stale gear grind reward systems you see elsewhere.

I don’t see the implication that they’re adding more in the future. They just used the example that no more are coming this year and said they don’t want to force players onto endless gear treadmills. They used the time examples to indicate the difference that Guild Wars 2 has with other MMO’s of similar design.

They say that because they want to add more later without being quoted on broken promises. They broke enough promises anyways it won’t matter if they add a few more on right?

Derk.3189:

They say that because they want to add more later without being quoted on broken promises. They broke enough promises anyways it won’t matter if they add a few more on right?

You’re quite cynical. I haven’t encountered any broken promises personally but that’s just me. And quite honestly the only thing I’ve disliked the devs doing in GW2 was removing the snakes from BWE1. I liked those snakes. Bring back the snakes!

If you expect the worst of people, you’ll only believe they can do their worst. I don’t think they’ll add another level of gear because I don’t believe there’s a point and they’ve seems logical so far. People on the forums talk about how broken this game is but I’ve been playing it since BWE1 and haven’t really noticed anything broken about it. Maybe I’m oblivious? Maybe I just enjoy the game? I dunno. I just haven’t felt as deeply and personally affected as the people on the forums I suppose. All I know is people rant about their play style changing somehow but I haven’t changed mine at all. When they explain their style I understand it’s oftentimes just some kind of grind in disguise which I believe Anet is trying to reduce.

Just what I see. Just what I believe.

critickitten.1498:

Do you feel that you can trust every word the developers say? Or do you approach their announcements as I do with quite a bit of caution and skepticism these days?

I thought I knew what to expect from their statements. Then Nov.12 2012 came. I had to adjust my views on their statements and philosophies. The game isn’t for me anymore and I can’t in good conscience keep supporting it with my money or playtime, but I still love the franchise, the love and details the designers put into the game world. Despite the disappointment of not being able to enjoy the game myself, I believe GW2 is the best MMORPG out there right now, and I want the franchise to continue, so that maybe one day there will be a game set in the GW universe I can enjoy playing again.

That’s why I am arguing in favor of long term vertical progression despite it being the reason I don’t play anymore. The game needs a direction to head in, and every time they are backpedaling on their vision(however misrepresented that was by their marketing), it will cost them active player numbers rather then give them more.

I still enjoy the game for the most part but have to say these last couple patches really made it tough to login at times. My biggest issue with this game right now is the lack of build variety, seems its either go burst or go bunker, condition builds really have no place in the current state of the game. I really hope they address this very soon, even though its been an issue since beta, and they said they were working on it, then they weren’t, then they were thinking about it??!!!!!??!!! Yeah so who knows?

The guild quest thing was a major disappointment for me also. I come from a small guild and the new system is very anti small guild. I am not into guild hopping or mass recruiting, I enjoy playing with the several members we have and will just have to accept that I will not be able to participate in the guild missions any time soon if at all.

And my only issue at the moment is the non-epic farmfest journey that is the legendary weapon, unbelievable how boring that journey is. The concept of getting a precursor is mind boggling, either get super lucky with a drop, or mystic toilet or be a gold farmer, its your choice! gold farm the way YOU want! LOL just sad.

Other than that stuff I still enjoy the game, the way I look at it is its Anets game they can do what they please with it, they are the ones who have to live with the bad decisions when players stop playing certain aspects or the game overall.

I’ll just throw in that it’s been nearly half a year since a promised fix to an entire /class/ (not the only one with major problems, but definitely the most badly broken), with absolutely no feedback about it since. It’s like rangers have been written off.

Playing anything involving other people as my class = frustration when I should be having fun. That isn’t how a game I both bought and spent 100$+ extra on should be.

And you know why I spent all that extra cash on gems? Because I liked the game. You make money on a product when it’s an attractive one, and definitely not just in the graphical sense.