Guild Wars 2

SrebX.6498:

Well, it had to come. Someone just had to be enough of a sassy crybaby to ask for that…
PvE gets you a kittenload of rewards already, this level of greed is astonishing.

If we did manage to get a track similar in function I would even be okay if there were no incremental reward that provided more loot drops and just get the “Reach 20,000 points and receive the map material or armor box”. I’d be perfectly fine with that. That would still allow us another way to obtain those materials and items.

Yup. I’m being a sassy crybaby. Forgive me for asking for something PvP and WvW already have just without all the loot they gain from it as well. You look at WvW and PvP who can play their tracks all day in the content they want and build up potions to gain loot from content they don’t play. If you want to talk about greed, then that is it. If you want to talk fair then WvW and PvP should not have tracks that give them material specific to Seasonal maps or PvE content, just like PvE has no way of gaining anything from PvP or WvW without going to those game modes. So greed, no. Equality, yes. Some of us just want to play fracts and raids, others want to play just open world. We should be allowed tracks that allow us to obtain rewards for the other areas of PvE by doing what we want just like PvP and WvW obtain rewards from PvE while playing content they want.

Not asking for the filler rewards, just the final reward. Read through the conversation and think about what it is being asked before out right insulting someone.

starlinvf.1358:

You’re right, there are only three game modes. So why cut one out when it comes to reward tracks?

Because reward tracks are there specifically to boost sPvP and WvW “toward” the same wealth accumulation as PvE. It just doesn’t do enough to even come close to the gold conversion rate of even casual event trains.

Fractals and Raids have the highest gold conversion rate in the game by a wide margin. Even a T2 run for fractal dailies nets at least 5 gold for less then an hour of work. But in WvW, it takes around an hour to get a rank; and that only yields 75s and maybe an exotic worth 1g if you’re lucky. If the zergs are actually fighting each other consistently, you can get maybe 2 ranks an hour. Under these conditions, it actually COSTS more in siege and consumables then you’d normally make playing WvW; and was intended to have this cost shared across the participants (which not nearly enough donate). With sPvP, the earn rate is also really low, but at least it doesn’t have operating costs.

But sPvP had the Tournament rewards, which gave a huge boost to income if you could play a lot during the season window. You have no idea how huge a boon it was when they copied that over to WvW with Skirmish rewards….. for the first time, WvW had a reasonable way to get “functional” things like gear with desired stats, covering the cost of expenses, and stuff that was previously only available through Crafting and Farming map metas.

And even with that sharp increase in rewards…. is STILL less then what Fractal and Raid farming puts out, and with far less consistency due to the nature of server match ups.

So I’m sure PvE is really suffering from this terrible loss by not being able to put in twice the amount of time needed to get the same reward, and making less gold on the side.

Not asking for the tracks for gold gain. Not once in my post did I mention how I was looking for more income. I’m looking specifically at the final rewards of the season 3 and dungeon tracks in which, with the season 3 tracks, you gain a flat amount of those map materials (Blood rubies, petrified wood, etc). Where as the PvE players can only obtain them through RNG farming WvW and PvP players can both grab the RNG nodes and work on the tracks to get the 50/100 at the end of the track.

Not asking for more income. Asking for a way for PvE players to just as easily obtain something WvW and PvP players are already obtaining easily. Cut out all the incremental loot drops and give us the final reward. That’s all I’m asking for.

Vyriis.6258:

So you’re telling me it’s ok for PvP and WvW to remain in PvP and WvW, their comfort zone, and receive rewards from dungeons and the season 3 maps, but it’s not ok for an open world player to receive dungeon rewards or dungeon runners to receive season 3 materials because they should step out of their comfort zones? Does that really seem fair?

Absolutely 100% yes.

PvE players have dungeons as an option. if they exlcude a particular area of PvE, but still want those rewards, then they will lose out and it is absolutely right that they should.

WvW and sPvP players should be allowed access to these rewards without playing dungeons because they fall completely outside of their game modes. They still have to work for them, but they get rewarded for the game mode they love, whilst keeping that game mode alive.

PvE players already have the option of doing dungeons and fractals – it is part their game mode. And vice versa – instanced players have the full roam of open world which also a part of their game mode. There isn’t the same divide between 2 different PvE modes as there is between PvP/PvE and WvW/PvE.

As it stands, it is fair and has the added benefit of working.

Randulf.7614:

Vyriis.6258:

So you’re telling me it’s ok for PvP and WvW to remain in PvP and WvW, their comfort zone, and receive rewards from dungeons and the season 3 maps, but it’s not ok for an open world player to receive dungeon rewards or dungeon runners to receive season 3 materials because they should step out of their comfort zones? Does that really seem fair?

Absolutely 100% yes.

PvE players have dungeons as an option. if they exlcude a particular area of PvE, but still want those rewards, then they will lose out and it is absolutely right that they should.

WvW and sPvP players should be allowed access to these rewards without playing dungeons because they fall completely outside of their game modes. They still have to work for them, but they get rewarded for the game mode they love, whilst keeping that game mode alive.

PvE players already have the option of doing dungeons and fractals – it is part their game mode. And vice versa – instanced players have the full roam of open world which also a part of their game mode. There isn’t the same divide between 2 different PvE modes as there is between PvP/PvE and WvW/PvE.

As it stands, it is fair and has the added benefit of working.

Alright, but what about armor sets such as the Tribal set that is locked behind PvP? A PvE player would have to go play PvP in order to obtain that armor set. Now why should a PvE player need to do content they don’t want to receive an armor set locked behind PvP while PvP players can continue playing PvP and receive an armor/weapon set in the PvE content? This is still unbalanced. Either everyone has access to everything or everyone should only have access to the parts of their content.

People keep arguing that the tracks were meant as a means for PvP and WvW players to receive income, this is fine, this I understand. This is not what I’m asking. If it was merely a means of income they should not be obtaining PvE specific rewards, just as PvE players are unable to receive PvP/WvW specific rewards. It’s not balanced. For a PvE player to have to subject themselves to daily RNG as the only means to obtain certain items while PvP/WvW players are able to play the same RNG then return to their game mode and continue working towards those same items; this is not fair.

My argument being that PvE players should have a guaranteed way of obtaining some items locked behind ridiculous RNG or locked behind content they can’t play. There are many PvE players who just are not able to play dungeons because they are too hard, they don’t have people to play them with, or the groups the pick up are just bad. They should have a way to obtain those rewards by playing the content they want. PvP and WvW should not be the only ones with this privilege.

Again: Not asking for the same loot rewards per increment. Just the final rewards of the tracks. I’ve pointed out a few times now that Anet could even remove all rewards in the track aside from the final rewards and it would fall in line with what I’m asking. We do have a higher income than PvP and WvW. We do not have the same means to gain the map materials and dungeon items that they do, however.

This suggestion doesn’t hurt PvP or WvW in any way and does not put PvE players any higher above PvP or WvW players as they are now. It would simply equal out our methods of obtaining them. Everyone can go play those maps and dungeons. But only PvP and WvW have the ability to obtain those through other means.

Ressurected.6312:

I agree, but first you’d need to nerf the drop of ascended chests and/or pure gold you get in fractals (not dramatically, but nerf it). As for raids it would be more interesting, since raids have not so good rewards in general if you compare the level of difficulty.

Agreed. The reason people live in fractals is because they are more rewarding than most other content in the game. Where else can you consistently farm for possibly the best gold source in the game AND regularly drop ascended chests (which would cost a LOT of gold to craft instead, take that into consideration)? And now there should be a reward track?

I think if you add reward tracks to fractals or raids, there might be a HEAVY drop off in people playing all other content.

VanHalenRules.5243:

Ressurected.6312:

I agree, but first you’d need to nerf the drop of ascended chests and/or pure gold you get in fractals (not dramatically, but nerf it). As for raids it would be more interesting, since raids have not so good rewards in general if you compare the level of difficulty.

Agreed. The reason people live in fractals is because they are more rewarding than most other content in the game. Where else can you consistently farm for possibly the best gold source in the game AND regularly drop ascended chests (which would cost a LOT of gold to craft instead, take that into consideration)? And now there should be a reward track?

I think if you add reward tracks to fractals or raids, there might be a HEAVY drop off in people playing all other content.

The reason I play fractals is because I enjoy them. It has little to do with the amount of gold I obtain from them. As for the ascended gear argument: I’ve gone several months without an ascended chest drop. It’s not a matter of the reward, it’s a matter of what people actually enjoy playing. If the other game modes have a heavy drop off just because another game mode has an extra reward, which if you read my comments I’m suggesting only the final reward which has no gold value, then the people leaving the other game modes didn’t like them to begin with.

Also with the ascended gear argument: Ascended gear was released with fractals because it is required to do higher scale fractals. Ascended gear is not required anywhere else in the game. There is no real reason for it to be a “regular drop” anywhere else. Even with that said, though, ascended rings still drop in WvW.

Alright, so a friend proposed this idea that sounds a little more reasonable than a full on Reward Track addition: Instead of giving PvE reward tracks in the same way as PvP and WvW, allow us to switch out our gain of spirit shards per level to another reward, such as blood rubies, petrified wood, etc, or dungeon tokens of your choice. This would remove the need to overhaul the reward tracks to not give PvE track any rewards aside from the final reward. Just a simple switch from Spirit shards to another level by level reward. Even a minor amount, like 3 or 5, per level would be a major help.

FYI ascended everything drops from all content: trinkets, armor, weapons. It’s more common from T4 daily reward chests than from anything else. Any drop that might be exotic gear has a chance to be ascended (just not a very big chance).

Pve is considered a single mode by ArenaNet, these rewards are already available in pve, but just not the way that you may like.

ANet may consider PvE to be a single mode, but if so, I utterly reject that opinion and hope that they change their mind on that. Things like raids and fractals have no more in common with open world PvE than sPvP does with WvW, and yet hose are considered two separate modes. They need to do more to balance out the rewards earned by PvEers who do not enjoy group oriented, instanced PvE content, just as they’ve made efforts to balance WvW rewards with sPvP’s.

There are only 3 officially recognised game modes though – PvE, WvW and sPvP. I understand what you are asking, but it’s asking a lot for Anet to cater for every niche player.

Nobody’s asking that they cater to every niche player, just that they cater to some fairly large groups of players that they currently are undervaluing.

The subset of players who never run anything other than raids/fractals is probably so low, that it wouldn’t be worth the time/resources to invest in producing tracks.

But what about the subset of players who never run raids or fractals? A proposal like this would benefit both, by allowing both groups to pick up on the content that they are missing. Furthermore, it’s not like this is an entirely new system, they already have it in two of the three recognized game modes, all they need to do is expand it to the third.

Because reward tracks are there specifically to boost sPvP and WvW “toward” the same wealth accumulation as PvE. It just doesn’t do enough to even come close to the gold conversion rate of even casual event trains.

But again, if it were just about balancing reward quantities, then they wouldn’t need to have the high variety and player customization of the reward tracks, they could just have a system more like the current PvP tournament reward brackets, dumping out generic loot based on performance.

Again, I do not ask for MORE loot from PvE than we’re getting now, they can balance it out however they like. All I want is more VARIETY from loot, divorced from playing specific content to get it.

If you want to argue that the rewards in PvP are still not enough, that’s fine, that’s not in conflict with our position in any way.

PvE players have dungeons as an option. if they exlcude a particular area of PvE, but still want those rewards, then they will lose out and it is absolutely right that they should.

PvPers and WvWer have dungeons as an option too. Nothing is stopping them from running dungeons. But you would argue that they don’t want to run dungeons, and that is true, but it can be equally as true of a PvE player. There is no more reason that a PvE player should be fine with having to run a dungeon than that a PvP player should have to run the dungeon. If you don’t want to run the dungeon, you don’t want to run the dungeon.

Instead of giving PvE reward tracks in the same way as PvP and WvW, allow us to switch out our gain of spirit shards per level to another reward, such as blood rubies, petrified wood, etc, or dungeon tokens of your choice.

That would be nice, IF the Spirit Shard system still worked. It hasn’t worked since HoT came out unless you unlock every available mastery first, including raiding ones. If you don’t raid, you don’t get any spirit shards.

I’d be all for adding something else to the post-80 level-up reward, other than Spirit Shards.

Maybe the Devs will consider that. (Even though I would never qualify, as it is gated behind Raids, and such.)

Just a note to the OP: If your TL;DR doesn’t convey the gist of the post, then it’s not a very good TL;DR.

The reward tracks in PvP and WvW are there so that those players who primarily play only those modes can get things so that when they do venture out into the PvE areas, they have a higher chance of being well geared and decently funded.

Players who only play PvP don’t level up their characters. They get boosted to level 80 and use PvP only gear. PvP reward tracks help them get gear and gold and tomes of knowledge so that they can play PvE with their PvE friends without having to spend ages to level up, get gold, and gear up.

Players who only play WvW, while they do have to level up their characters to be competitive, do not get that much gold/hour while playing WvW when compared to their PvE friends. WvW tracks help to mitigate that so that they can have a good amount of gold to get things they want or need for WvW. Not sure about how much has changed since WvW tracks got added in, but WvW players would have to go play in PvE areas for a while to earn the gold to buy things necessary for competitive WvW play.

There’s nothing in WvW or PvP that PvE players are at a disadvantage at that can be countered by a reward track. Unfortunately, you can’t increase a player’s skill level in one mode by giving them rewards in a different mode.

I have two schools of thought here.

the first.. It seems there’s an issue with how unfun it is for the OP to farm materials like blood rubies ( and I don’t blame them, I find gathering the most tedious boring thing in the game). Closely related is how little you actually get from certain maps, like bloodstone fen. It genuinely feels faster ( and more reliable – x time yields y rewards) in wvw/pvp to get rubies. Even though this may or may not be strictly true.

The other school of thought: is the argument that “PvE” is a broad umbrella, and maybe shouldn’t be thought of as a single game mode. I’m not entirely sure I agree, though I would say raiding and gathering is definitely very different “content” (I use quotes, because gathering is technically farming, not content in my mind, but that is a debate for semantics that I’d rather not get into).
This then evolves into the idea of “well if PvP/WvW players can gather rubies/dungeon tokens/<insert content specific reward here> without having to go farm the nodes leave their prefered content (game mode), why can’t I, doing raids/fotm?”

Solutions
For the first: I’d suggest the gather rates/methods for items like blood rubies probably needs looking at. This is something I would like to see addressed personally.

For the later, the solution would be highly unpopular – remove content specific rewards from reward tracks. Including rubies, dungeon tokens, maybe even festival items. This makes it “fair” for all – Want rubies? go gathering.
Alternatively, allow raid/fractal tokens to be traded for other currencies, but then that becomes a behemoth to maintain, as you have to consider currency conversion rates, as well as how that affects time to acquire.

I think the fastest and easiest change for ANet is to simply allow for the gathering nodes to give 1 for each ‘tick’ instead of the 0-1 with hardcap they have now.

Just turn the Bloodstones, Jade Shards, Petrified Stumps and Primordial Orchids into regular gathering nodes that give you 3 per node.

I already have 3 stacks of Orrian Pearls because they are so easy to get (and daily lootbox that can give 20-50 bonus if you’re lucky) but this old 0-1 RNG with hardcap of the older LS areas is no longer needed in my opinion. I farmed the entire Bloodstone Fen map a couple days ago and only got 5 measly rubies from harvesting all the nodes. So yeah, then it’s no wonder that I’d rather go in WvW with the reward track for 50.

Goldfox.5729:

Mazreal Blackknight.1564:

Like the OP stated not everyone who PvE’s does Raids, some of us only do FOTM, or some of us only do Open world. Not everyone does Raiding. I would love to have access to legendary armor outside of raids. I don’t understand why WvW and PvP get the option when FOTM players also use marks and currency to get ascended gear. It should have been an option for all of the game plays. I do WvW so I will have that line but not all pve players do.

Tracks cant hurt the game play and heck even if it over rode the map bonus I would still personally be ok with that. Since I know the end result of my track unlike the map bonus, its not always something I want.

Why do you even need Legendary Armor if all you do is world bosses? It’s not like you’re going to get the skins from raids, nor do you get any stat increase, nor will you ever swap stats on your armor that often. So why do you want it? Ascended, even Exotic, is just fine for you.

Because I do WvW as well, I stated that. But I was saying not all PvE players do just Raids and or FoTM.

Yeah, it’s actively easier to get most PVE rewards (dungeons are by far the worst offenders, but the HoT and LS3 tracks are almost as bad) via reward tracks than doing the actual content, and that’s just plain not acceptable.

Especially since the LS3 ones give meta rewards without having to do all the achievements (many of which are awful) you have to do in the actual content.

Ohoni.6057:

Pve is considered a single mode by ArenaNet, these rewards are already available in pve, but just not the way that you may like.

ANet may consider PvE to be a single mode, but if so, I utterly reject that opinion and hope that they change their mind on that. Things like raids and fractals have no more in common with open world PvE than sPvP does with WvW, and yet hose are considered two separate modes. They need to do more to balance out the rewards earned by PvEers who do not enjoy group oriented, instanced PvE content, just as they’ve made efforts to balance WvW rewards with sPvP’s.

There are only 3 officially recognised game modes though – PvE, WvW and sPvP. I understand what you are asking, but it’s asking a lot for Anet to cater for every niche player.

Nobody’s asking that they cater to every niche player, just that they cater to some fairly large groups of players that they currently are undervaluing.

The subset of players who never run anything other than raids/fractals is probably so low, that it wouldn’t be worth the time/resources to invest in producing tracks.

But what about the subset of players who never run raids or fractals? A proposal like this would benefit both, by allowing both groups to pick up on the content that they are missing. Furthermore, it’s not like this is an entirely new system, they already have it in two of the three recognized game modes, all they need to do is expand it to the third.

Because reward tracks are there specifically to boost sPvP and WvW “toward” the same wealth accumulation as PvE. It just doesn’t do enough to even come close to the gold conversion rate of even casual event trains.

But again, if it were just about balancing reward quantities, then they wouldn’t need to have the high variety and player customization of the reward tracks, they could just have a system more like the current PvP tournament reward brackets, dumping out generic loot based on performance.

Again, I do not ask for MORE loot from PvE than we’re getting now, they can balance it out however they like. All I want is more VARIETY from loot, divorced from playing specific content to get it.

If you want to argue that the rewards in PvP are still not enough, that’s fine, that’s not in conflict with our position in any way.

PvE players have dungeons as an option. if they exlcude a particular area of PvE, but still want those rewards, then they will lose out and it is absolutely right that they should.

PvPers and WvWer have dungeons as an option too. Nothing is stopping them from running dungeons. But you would argue that they don’t want to run dungeons, and that is true, but it can be equally as true of a PvE player. There is no more reason that a PvE player should be fine with having to run a dungeon than that a PvP player should have to run the dungeon. If you don’t want to run the dungeon, you don’t want to run the dungeon.

Instead of giving PvE reward tracks in the same way as PvP and WvW, allow us to switch out our gain of spirit shards per level to another reward, such as blood rubies, petrified wood, etc, or dungeon tokens of your choice.

That would be nice, IF the Spirit Shard system still worked. It hasn’t worked since HoT came out unless you unlock every available mastery first, including raiding ones. If you don’t raid, you don’t get any spirit shards.

PvE player vs environment so no raids and fractals arent diffrent the open world your still playing against npcs and the areas they are in.

Spvp and wvw is small scale combat and large scale combat against players so both got reward tracks its simple really. ( you can even pve in wvw since they got npcs and objectives you can take alone.)

PvE player vs environment so no raids and fractals arent diffrent the open world your still playing against npcs and the areas they are in.

And PvP is player verses player, if we’re going to be pedantic, which is exactly what WvW is, so why would WvW be considered its own distinct move from sPvP and yet it’s just crazy talk to consider that wildly different types of PvE should be considered distinct from each other as well?

If they ever implement this please make sure all fractal and raid drops (including raid legendary skins) can be obtainable from PvP and WvW.

If they ever implement this please make sure all fractal and raid drops (including raid legendary skins) can be obtainable from PvP and WvW.

Yes, definitely, AND from PvE.

Ohoni.6057:

If they ever implement this please make sure all fractal and raid drops (including raid legendary skins) can be obtainable from PvP and WvW.

Yes, definitely, AND from PvE.

You people are seriously missing the point of what I’m asking for here. I’m not asking for some massive new reward that will give us way more loot and gold over PvP and WvW. I’m not asking to gain things only PvP and WvW are able to by playing their content. I’m asking for a way for the PvE community to gain items from the parts of the PvE content that we do not enjoy playing, the same way PvP and WvW are able to gain PvE items from their desired content.

Legendary armor shows someone has put time and effort into raids, the high end PvE content. Legendary backpieces show that someone has put much time into their content. Fractal items show that someone has put time into fractals. This would be the same as me saying “Give me the ability to get Warbringer without stepping into WvW” or “Give me Ascension without needing to PvP.” That’s just not okay. However, with Dungeon and Season 3 rewards already a part of WvW and PvP reward tracks they are trivialized and locked out to be easier only for those two parties. PvE players are only able to obtain them via the Season 3 maps, whether we want to play them or not, open world players who don’t like dungeons would have to play dungeons in order to obtain the items they want, even if they don’t like/aren’t good at that content. WvW and PvP players? No, they get to sit in their desired content and get those rewards. All I’m asking for is the end rewards from those tracks obtainable in some way for the PvE community.

That’s not a greedy thing to ask for. It’s not something way out of base. I’m not asking for thousands of more loot rewards. I’m asking for a simpler way for PvE and Fractal/Raid players to obtain things outside the content we want to play. As I keep stating: Remove all the other rewards in the track and give us the final reward (i.e. the armor pieces/map material. I’m not asking to obtain high end items that only those who play such content are privy to (i.e. Glorious/Triumphant/Hero from PvP and WvW.

As Ohoni has pointed out in some of his other posts: Fractals and Raids are as different to Open world as PvP is to WvW. Open World is the WvW of the PvE community while Fractals and Raids are the PvP side. Yet they both have different reward tracks for their modes who both dip into rewards from the open world and instanced contents (dungeons). So why are they the privileged ones when PvE actually play this content, yet get screwed over by the RNG of those areas (Season 3 maps) or the difficult content (dungeons for open worlders). And don’t make the argument of “You should play the content you don’t want to if you want those rewards”. That would be the same as saying “You PvP and WvW should come to PvE and play the content you don’t want to for the rewards of this game mode”. That’s not even my point.

Look at items such of the Season 3 Maps: PvP and WvW are able to hop out of their content, grab the nodes of those maps, then hop back into their content and gain more. Making them MUCH easier to obtain for those game modes. PvE players, both Open World and Instanced, have to play the RNG game with the nodes as our only source. How is this fair to us and how is it greedy for me to ask for the same end rewards? It’s not. PvP and WvW don’t have to leave their game modes or play the RNG game while Instanced players have to leave their content and all PvE need to play the RNG game for them.

We also don’t have the ability to stock pile potions over time that will allow us to instantly finish a track for any reward that may be added into a reward track. Another point I keep making is the ease in which WvW and PvP are able to save up a means to instantly gain PvE rewards when an item is introduced that requires them, such is Aurora. People who have never even been to the season 3 maps before Aurora dropped were able to instantly craft it after having done the collections because they had the potions saved up to obtain the 250 materials from those maps needed for the crafting of it. How is this fair to the PvE community who have played those maps but never kept up with the node farming because it’s not a fun aspect of the game? Does that REALLY seem fair to you?

If you want to deny PvE a way to gain rewards from other aspects of the PvE community, that’s fine. But then I say any rewards a PvP or WvW players has received, via the tracks, from the PvE content should have them removed along with the track final rewards. The tracks can still rewards items and other materials. But cut and remove the exclusive PvE items from the tracks. That is the only fair way to go about it if not to give PvE a way to obtain the items already easily obtainable from WvW and PvP.

You people are seriously missing the point of what I’m asking for here. I’m not asking for some massive new reward that will give us way more loot and gold over PvP and WvW. I’m not asking to gain things only PvP and WvW are able to by playing their content.

Well, I am.

Not more loot than we’re getting now, but access to more variety in loot, to be able to earn PvP and WvW-specific loot just like they can earn PvE-specific loot. To be able to earn Raid and Fractal loot without having to do Raids or Fractals. I think that the type of content a player plays should be determined by the type of content he enjoys playing, rather than by the type of reward he’s chasing.

This would be the same as me saying “Give me the ability to get Warbringer without stepping into WvW” or “Give me Ascension without needing to PvP.”

Yup, make it so!

Ohoni.6057:

You people are seriously missing the point of what I’m asking for here. I’m not asking for some massive new reward that will give us way more loot and gold over PvP and WvW. I’m not asking to gain things only PvP and WvW are able to by playing their content.

Well, I am.

Not more loot than we’re getting now, but access to more variety in loot, to be able to earn PvP and WvW-specific loot just like they can earn PvE-specific loot. To be able to earn Raid and Fractal loot without having to do Raids or Fractals. I think that the type of content a player plays should be determined by the type of content he enjoys playing, rather than by the type of reward he’s chasing.

This would be the same as me saying “Give me the ability to get Warbringer without stepping into WvW” or “Give me Ascension without needing to PvP.”

Yup, make it so!

The reason I’m not asking for that is because it would trivialize the rewards of the content. See, I can understand why Season map materials are a reward for PvP and WvW. It takes a good deal of time to go into those maps and farm those nodes and hearts every day. This is not fun for people who don’t like that content. Dungeons have been dead in Anets eyes for a while now and those tracks have been out for so long now that that damage is done. However Glorious and Triumphant should remain specific to their area of the game to show that they spend a lot of time in that content. The same way Legendary armor should reflect that for PvE. Hero weapons should remain in WvW and PvP, just like fractal weapons should remain to fractals. It makes little sense for those to be crossed over as rewards and give reason to actually go to those areas of the game if you want them. Map materials and dungeon items were trivialized as soon as they became tracks in WvW and PvP, I’m just asking for PvE to receive something that allows us to just as easily obtain them as PvP and WvW.

People keep saying that they should be able to get fractal and raid sets from PvP and WvW if PvE receives anything, and if they don’t then PvE should respectfully buzz off. This is a very narrow way of looking at it. PvP and WvW already receive PvE rewards without setting foot in that content, so why should PvE not receive those same rewards? I’m not asking for more rewards to be added to the table or more rewards for PvE. I’m asking for a way in which PvE can obtain PvE rewards that PvP and WvW obtain easier in their own content rather than the struggle with RNG that PvE players are subject to while playing the PvE content those rewards come from. Equality and balance, not more trivialization.

If I want the Hero weapons or Glorious/Triumphant sets I will gladly walk into WvW and PvP and grind for them the same way I will work for Gift of Battle in WvW while anyone in WvW will have to come and map comp for Gift of Exploration. I would expect the same if WvW and PvP want fractal or raid items. People need reasons to go to content they don’t want. However, with that said, PvE players are forced to play content they don’t want to obtain certain items while PvP and WvW are not required to do the same when it comes to other PvE rewards. My example of Season 3 items remains my biggest gripe. PvE players are subject to RNG with these materials and we have to do the achievements for the armor pieces (which I have done) while PvP and WvW have the option to play that content or remain in their own content to work on the tracks for the same rewards. It’s not equal when two game modes can remain in their content and gain rewards easier than those who play the actual content that the rewards come from. Either everyone has to play that content for those rewards or everyone should share in those rewards while remaining in their own content. NOT asking for more rewards added to the tables, asking for the PvE rewards already in those tables that are easier for PvP and WvW to obtain be given to the PvE community.

The reason I’m not asking for that is because it would trivialize the rewards of the content. See, I can understand why Season map materials are a reward for PvP and WvW. It takes a good deal of time to go into those maps and farm those nodes and hearts every day. This is not fun for people who don’t like that content.

It takes a LOT less time to farm for Bloodstone Rubies than it takes to farm for Legendary Insights, and it’s MUCH more fun, so that argument doesn’t really apply.

It makes little sense for those to be crossed over as rewards and give reason to actually go to those areas of the game if you want them.

If players need something to show off that they’ve spent a lot of time doing something, then it should be in the form of a title, or something else that would have no intrinsic value beyond showing off that you’d done that thing. It’s like how if you win an Olympic activity you get a medal, a token, you don’t get exclusive access to owning a specific brand of car.

There’s never any sense to having rewards that encourage players to play content that they KNOW that they will not enjoy, whether that means PvPing, raiding, or harvesting materials from maps. Once a player has decided that they don’t enjoy a certain type of content, there’s no benefit to anyone to encouraging them to keep playing it. The only valid role for content-specific loot is stuff that is quick and easy to get, stuff that’s designed to entice you enough to TRY the new content, to give it a fair shot at winning you over, but that then accepts your decision and lets you go.

If you love someone, let them go. If they don’t return, then they were never yours to begin with.

No you are asking for more rewards. That is precisely what you are asking. You don’t want to leave the content you like to obtain items you want.
It most definitely is not in any way easier/faster/better to obtain items through reward tracks in WvW. It takes 5.5 hours at max participation with boosters to fill a track. The amount of dungeons you can do in that amount of times pales when compared to the rewards you get from the track. Same for gathering from nodes. It is way faster to just farm nodes than the track.

On top of that a WvWer needs to forgo other reward tracks during this time.

So you want reward tracks well only if you forgo any other rewards while it is active

No you are asking for more rewards. That is precisely what you are asking. You don’t want to leave the content you like to obtain items you want.
It most definitely is not in any way easier/faster/better to obtain items through reward tracks in WvW. It takes 5.5 hours at max participation with boosters to fill a track. The amount of dungeons you can do in that amount of times pales when compared to the rewards you get from the track. Same for gathering from nodes. It is way faster to just farm nodes than the track.

But again, if you enjoy WvW, then you can do any WvW actions you like while advancing any track you like, whereas in PvE if you want Dungeon stuff, then you have to do that specific dungeon whether you enjoy that particular dungeon or not.

Again, nobody is asking for more loot. If you’re making $8 an hour now, you’d be making $8 an hour after, it would just be balanced differently, so that instead of getting $8 in wages and $0 in tips, you’d be getting say $5 in wages and $3 in tips, and that $3 could be in ones, fives, quarters, dimes, any denomination you like!

Conner.4702:

No you are asking for more rewards. That is precisely what you are asking. You don’t want to leave the content you like to obtain items you want.
It most definitely is not in any way easier/faster/better to obtain items through reward tracks in WvW. It takes 5.5 hours at max participation with boosters to fill a track. The amount of dungeons you can do in that amount of times pales when compared to the rewards you get from the track. Same for gathering from nodes. It is way faster to just farm nodes than the track.

On top of that a WvWer needs to forgo other reward tracks during this time.

So you want reward tracks well only if you forgo any other rewards while it is active

5.5 hours for 1 track. That’s neat. That will net you 50 blood rubies. What does 5.5 hours in Bloodstone fen get me, while hitting all the nodes, doing the dailies, and getting the bosses? 15 rubies, if I’m lucky. That also means me leaving my desired content to go and farm those nodes and do those dailies and bosses. I also don’t receive potions from my content that I can hold onto to instantly finish a track if I have enough on hand, which most PvP/WvW players I know tend to have stacks of potions from their dailies. Yet you get to stay in your content and work towards the same thing while Raiders and Fractals runners need to leave their desired content to gain the same thing while praying to RNG to be kind? I will agree dungeons are easier to get the rewards from by actually playing them, this is true. The maps, however, are not. They are the same. However WvW and PvP have the option to leave their content, go farm and do the dailies and bosses, then return to their content and continue working on them while Fractal, raiders, and Open world PvE players all alike can only obtain them through those maps. This is the part I’m talking about mostly. PvP and WvW have two means to obtain them while PvE only has one. While WvW and PvP can remain in their content and obtain the same materials, Fractal and raid runners have to forgo their content to go farm these areas. This is not equality.

Asking for more reward I am not. If you have read any of my posts I am specifically saying to remove all other rewards from the tracks just to allow us that final reward chest with the materials in them. Or, as I had edited in what my friend suggested, a way to swap out/add in a way for leveling to reward these materials as well. This suggestion works just as well and would work for all game modes. So before looking at this as a “You filthy PvErs get enough reward as it is, bugger off” post. Look at it as a whole in that PvP and WvW have two ways of obtaining something that PvErs have a single way to obtain.

PvE player vs environment so no raids and fractals arent diffrent the open world your still playing against npcs and the areas they are in.

And PvP is player verses player, if we’re going to be pedantic, which is exactly what WvW is, so why would WvW be considered its own distinct move from sPvP and yet it’s just crazy talk to consider that wildly different types of PvE should be considered distinct from each other as well?

WvW is a PvPvE mode, making it different from sPvP. ANet started the game with three distinct game modes in mind, and has consistently treated the game as though it had 3 modes — not 4 or more. Raids are not “wildly different” than other PvE. They’re normal PvE with more need for coordination and skill.

It’s a neat idea, but I think it takes away from the content. Why would you do dungeons if you can farm the rewards easier/faster in fractals? Who would go to bloodstone fen anymore if fractals is just as fast or faster? (as reward tracks give a bit more control over the rate of farming that blood stone fen lacks.)
Also to make it equal you’don’t have to remove most of the current rewards and put them behind their own track so you can’t get both at once, otherwise it’s just a flat buff to some of the most rewarding content in game.

Also I find this all a bit strange, you guys do know that the wvw tracks are only about 6mats/hour? If you want an ascended ls3 set as a wvw er, you end up going to farm the pve maps anyway. The only track remotely near worth it is rubies’ the rest I can farm all I need for 1 set in less time that it takes to get 50 of the mats in wvw. And I would have to give up other rewards either way, the OP gives the feeling like the wvwers don’t have any sacrifices
and can just do the daily farming after grabbing multiple tracks in a day (8h+ per track people, it’s slow af).

It’s a bit of the grass is always greener I think, reward tracks really aren’t as great as the pvers reward system.

Also a tip for the OP, farm the bosses not the nodes for wood (and rubies but rubies are still slow af). Hitting all the wood dropping boss event chains gets you to that 50 after two characters (9-12 from chests (skip skrilla if she isn’the up), 3 from dailys, 9-12 from the hearts you filled while doing the bosses/press, + any nodes you hit up on the way)

edit: the 6/hour is based on the rate without all the possible boosts in the game

I dont think that increasing rewards in some of the most rewarding content in the game is necessarily the way to go.

Ohoni.6057:

It takes a LOT less time to farm for Bloodstone Rubies than it takes to farm for Legendary Insights, and it’s MUCH more fun, so that argument doesn’t really apply.

Very true. But that’s also because raids are locked behind weekly cap instead of daily caps. However for YOU it might be more fun to farm the maps. For me, and other raiders/FotM runners, it’s MUCH more fun to bash our heads against bosses all day (we like boring things, I guess).

It makes little sense for those to be crossed over as rewards and give reason to actually go to those areas of the game if you want them.

If players need something to show off that they’ve spent a lot of time doing something, then it should be in the form of a title, or something else that would have no intrinsic value beyond showing off that you’d done that thing. It’s like how if you win an Olympic activity you get a medal, a token, you don’t get exclusive access to owning a specific brand of car.

Titles are gained for many things and hold little meaning. A lot of people will wear what sounds good for their character and some will wear what took a while to obtain. But very few people actually look at titles or know where they come from. So it means very little when I’m running around with “Demon’s Demise” or “Silent Savior” or even my “Master of Secrets” titles when people have no idea where they come from or don’t even see them because they aren’t looking for them.

Legendary armor, Legendary back pieces, Glorious armor, Triumphant armor, Hero weapons, Fractal weapons. These are the medals. These show reward for playing a good amount of that content. They are not the cars in which we buy with the money we gain from the fame. Anyone can go out and buy a fancy car if they have the cash, but only those who work for it can obtain those medals (these items).

Take the vanilla legendary weapons, for example. When GW2 first dropped we looked at those and thought “Wow, that’s something I want and will be proof that I’ve played all aspects of the game.” Except they weren’t because people could just play the trading post (play stocks), get the money needed, and buy the fancy car before the people who actually worked for it. The WvW and PvP armor and weapons, the back pieces, and Legendary armor are the medals in which you actually have to work for, not something you can simply buy. They show dedication to those game modes. Do not trivialize them

There’s never any sense to having rewards that encourage players to play content that they KNOW that they will not enjoy, whether that means PvPing, raiding, or harvesting materials from maps. Once a player has decided that they don’t enjoy a certain type of content, there’s no benefit to anyone to encouraging them to keep playing it. The only valid role for content-specific loot is stuff that is quick and easy to get, stuff that’s designed to entice you enough to TRY the new content, to give it a fair shot at winning you over, but that then accepts your decision and lets you go.

If you love someone, let them go. If they don’t return, then they were never yours to begin with.

That last bit ONLY works with people. If you DON’T like content YOU wont be the one returning. You aren’t letting it go hoping it will come back to you. If you don’t like content and you don’t return to it you should lose the perks of that content. PvP/WvW players should not be receiving PvE rewards for not playing it just the same as PvE should not receive PvP/WvW rewards for not playing it. That much remains fair. But while they are receiving it open world players should have access to the dungeon items and Fractal/raid runners should have access to the open world items while remaining in their desired content much the same as PvP and WvW players are allowed.

But again, if you enjoy WvW, then you can do any WvW actions you like while advancing any track you like, whereas in PvE if you want Dungeon stuff, then you have to do that specific dungeon whether you enjoy that particular dungeon or not.
Again, nobody is asking for more loot. If you’re making $8 an hour now, you’d be making $8 an hour after, it would just be balanced differently, so that instead of getting $8 in wages and $0 in tips, you’d be getting say $5 in wages and $3 in tips, and that $3 could be in ones, fives, quarters, dimes, any denomination you like!

You keep flip flopping and it’s bugging me, bud. What you say here is pretty much what I’m saying. Not asking for more rewards, more pay, or a bigger advantage. I am, in fact, saying PvP and WvW have multiple ways of gaining certain items while remaining in their content that PvE players are forced to either play or they would have to go play WvW or PvP, which they also don’t want to play, in order to obtain them just the same. Open world players who don’t like dungeons have no way of obtaining dungeon items aside from playing them, yet PvP and WvW do. Fractal and Raiders have no way of gaining Open World items without farming those maps, yet PvP and WvW do. Why should we have to leave our desired game modes and play content we don’t want for rewards that PvP and WvW receive while staying in their game modes?

Remove the rewards from the increments of the track, that’s fine, that’s fair, we don’t need that in PvE. As has been said by myself and others, PvE already makes more gold/hour than PvP and WvW. What I’m looking at is the final rewards. Dungeon armor for Open World players who struggle with that content and don’t like it and Seasonal map materials and items locked behind achievements for instance runners who don’t enjoy that content. Not asking for higher pay; asking for the 401k and dental that PvP and WvW are privy to that PvE players are paying for out of pocket (if that makes sense to you).

Except that PvE players receive a higher base compensatiin, dramatically so, to cover the out of pocket cost they are paying.

WvW is a PvPvE mode, making it different from sPvP.

sPvP also includes PvE. Stronghold maps involve significant numbers of NPC mobs. Even Foefire and Niflhel include NPC mobs that can have a significant impact on the outcome, but in both cases the primary focus is on the PvP engagement. Again, while we agree that there are differences between WvW and sPvP, those differences are nowhere NEAR as large as between open world PvE and raiding.

ANet started the game with three distinct game modes in mind, and has consistently treated the game as though it had 3 modes — not 4 or more.

Anet started the game with no raids, or Fractals, for that matter. ANet started the game with sPvP not sharing any reward structures with other modes. ANet started the game without the Edge of the Mist maps that now define the WvW experience. The game has evolved a lot over the past four years, perhaps ANet should reconsider how they delineate the core activities of their game.

It’s a neat idea, but I think it takes away from the content. Why would you do dungeons if you can farm the rewards easier/faster in fractals?

You shouldn’t be able to farm them easier faster in fractals. But you should be able to farm them in fractals if you enjoy fractals more. And if you enjoy fractals more then you shouldn’t be doing dungeons instead.

Who would go to bloodstone fen anymore if fractals is just as fast or faster? (as reward tracks give a bit more control over the rate of farming that blood stone fen lacks.)

People that prefer Bloodstone Fen to fractals, and they should be the only people who should be there.

And keep in mind, if people do enjoy Bloodstone Fen, then they could run Bloodstone Fen with the Bloodstone Fen track active, and have the exact same “control” as someone running fractals with that track on.

Also to make it equal you’don’t have to remove most of the current rewards and put them behind their own track so you can’t get both at once, otherwise it’s just a flat buff to some of the most rewarding content in game.

Yes. I imagine it would tend to be a sort of 60/40 split, current activities would keep 60% of their default rewards, the track would provide 40% of the current rewards, and you could use that to either get 100% of the current reward of the current map, or 60% of the current map and 40% of something else entirely.

Snow.2048:

It’s a neat idea, but I think it takes away from the content. Why would you do dungeons if you can farm the rewards easier/faster in fractals? Who would go to bloodstone fen anymore if fractals is just as fast or faster? (as reward tracks give a bit more control over the rate of farming that blood stone fen lacks.)
Also to make it equal you’don’t have to remove most of the current rewards and put them behind their own track so you can’t get both at once, otherwise it’s just a flat buff to some of the most rewarding content in game.

Also I find this all a bit strange, you guys do know that the wvw tracks are only about 6mats/hour? If you want an ascended ls3 set as a wvw er, you end up going to farm the pve maps anyway. The only track remotely near worth it is rubies’ the rest I can farm all I need for 1 set in less time that it takes to get 50 of the mats in wvw. And I would have to give up other rewards either way, the OP gives the feeling like the wvwers don’t have any sacrifices
and can just do the daily farming after grabbing multiple tracks in a day (8h+ per track people, it’s slow af).

It’s a bit of the grass is always greener I think, reward tracks really aren’t as great as the pvers reward system.

Also a tip for the OP, farm the bosses not the nodes for wood (and rubies but rubies are still slow af). Hitting all the wood dropping boss event chains gets you to that 50 after two characters (9-12 from chests (skip skrilla if she isn’the up), 3 from dailys, 9-12 from the hearts you filled while doing the bosses/press, + any nodes you hit up on the way)

edit: the 6/hour is based on the rate without all the possible boosts in the game

What you’re missing is that I’m not saying WvW and PvP have no sacrifice. If you look at it this way, though:

WvW + PvP = Leave their content and go to the season 3 maps to gather nodes, do bosses, do dailies, return to their content continue working on their tracks. Stay in their content still work towards rewards for those maps.

Fractals and raids = Leave their content and go to season 3 maps to gather nodes, do bosses, do dailies, return to their content and get no more reward towards those maps. Stay in their content get no reward for those maps.

Open world PvE = Farm their nodes, play the bosses, do the dailies (all content they enjoy doing [or maybe some don’t overly enjoy specific maps]) get the rewards for it.

When looking at season 3 map materials WvW and PvP have options. Instance runners and Open world players only have one option and are punished for playing the content we want. Instance runners when it comes to NEEDING to play open world if we want those items, which means walking away from our content. Some people don’t have the time every night to play the content they want and go farm the open world maps while PvP and WvW can hop on, make a little progression in the tracks in the content they want then hop off for the night. Instance runners need to sacrifice their content to get the same thing PvP and WvW CAN obtain through their content or playing the content those rewards come from.

PvP + WvW = Leave their content, play dungeons, return to their content, continue working on Dungeon rewards. Don’t leave their content, make small progression towards dungeon rewards.

Open world = Leave their content, play dungeons (which some aren’t exactly good at and struggle with), go back to their content, make no more progression towards them.

Fractal + Raiders = Leave their content, play dungeons (Even some people who play fractals and Raids daily struggle with dungeons and don’t enjoy them), return to their content and gain no more progression.

See what I’m getting at. PvE players have to play content they might not want to obtain the items they might want or need while PvP and WvW have two ways to obtain those items. One being staying in their content and making small progression towards it or leaving and actually playing it, while PvE only have the option of leaving their content to play something they might not want or be good at or they just go without the reward.

Again: Not asking for more rewards in the tracks, just the final reward in the tracks (the armor/weapons or materials). Everything else in the track is not needed for PvE, this much I will agree with. Options is what I’m looking for, not bonuses.

Yes. I imagine it would tend to be a sort of 60/40 split, current activities would keep 60% of their default rewards, the track would provide 40% of the current rewards, and you could use that to either get 100% of the current reward of the current map, or 60% of the current map and 40% of something else entirely.

This here. Reduce the rewards we receive already to balance out the reward rate. The tracks will be no faster to complete than they are for someone playing WvW or PvP. They will just offer an alternative for those who only play one form of content to gain the items from another. Maybe not so drastic, as with my example we would lose out on the actual loot drops while gaining the final reward. So something more like 80/20, but yeah. If we did get the full on tracks a cut of 60/40 would make more sense.

PvErs asking for more ways to get stuff easily. Why am I not surprised?

Manimarco Devil.1790:

PvErs asking for more ways to get stuff easily. Why am I not surprised?

Not sure why people are looking at this as an “I want more rewards” thread. This is a “PvP and WvW receive items from content they don’t want to play, why should PvE be forced to play the content we don’t want to for the same rewards”, thread.

If it’s easy for us to obtain the season 3 map items and dungeon items (which is not true for all players while being able to play what they want for the day as well [or at all in some cases]) why should PvP/WvW? Why are we the only ones who have to forgo our content to obtain rewards outside of our content while PvP and WvW can remain in theirs and receive the same rewards? Not asking for more rewards quicker; asking for ways to play the way we want while receiving rewards from areas we don’t want to play. No different from PvP and WvW.

Vyriis.6258:

Manimarco Devil.1790:

PvErs asking for more ways to get stuff easily. Why am I not surprised?

Not sure why people are looking at this as an “I want more rewards” thread. This is a “PvP and WvW receive items from content they don’t want to play, why should PvE be forced to play the content we don’t want to for the same rewards”, thread.

If it’s easy for us to obtain the season 3 map items and dungeon items (which is not true for all players while being able to play what they want for the day as well [or at all in some cases]) why should PvP/WvW? Why are we the only ones who have to forgo our content to obtain rewards outside of our content while PvP and WvW can remain in theirs and receive the same rewards? Not asking for more rewards quicker; asking for ways to play the way we want while receiving rewards from areas we don’t want to play. No different from PvP and WvW.

Perhaps I have missed it, but have you suggested lowering rewards for PvE, fractals etc in particular, so that adding reward tracks for those players does not increase the already significant gap between rewards in PvE and those in WvW/Pvp?

What would you be willing to give up to get what you are asking for? You can say that your request isnt about getting more rewards, but adding rewards without taking anything away is exactly that.

Manimarco Devil.1790:

PvErs asking for more ways to get stuff easily. Why am I not surprised?

Probably because you aren’t reading, but that’d just be my guess.

Ashen.2907:

Vyriis.6258:

Manimarco Devil.1790:

PvErs asking for more ways to get stuff easily. Why am I not surprised?

Not sure why people are looking at this as an “I want more rewards” thread. This is a “PvP and WvW receive items from content they don’t want to play, why should PvE be forced to play the content we don’t want to for the same rewards”, thread.

If it’s easy for us to obtain the season 3 map items and dungeon items (which is not true for all players while being able to play what they want for the day as well [or at all in some cases]) why should PvP/WvW? Why are we the only ones who have to forgo our content to obtain rewards outside of our content while PvP and WvW can remain in theirs and receive the same rewards? Not asking for more rewards quicker; asking for ways to play the way we want while receiving rewards from areas we don’t want to play. No different from PvP and WvW.

Perhaps I have missed it, but have you suggested lowering rewards for PvE, fractals etc in particular, so that adding reward tracks for those players does not increase the already significant gap between rewards in PvE and those in WvW/Pvp?

Yes.

You should probably read the words that others have written, and then
post a response of some kind.

To anyone who has posted before this point: I have gone back to my original post and completely reworked it in hopes to sound less like I’m asking for more rewards and more in line with what my original idea was/is. I’ve taken things said in the discussion so far and added them in there as well.

@Ohoni: Would like you to take a look at it as well as I have added in a few things you suggested and you have been on my side, for the most part, and have been a major help. (still hoping anet looks at and thinks about this in some way).

Ohoni.6057:

Ashen.2907:

Vyriis.6258:

Manimarco Devil.1790:

PvErs asking for more ways to get stuff easily. Why am I not surprised?

Not sure why people are looking at this as an “I want more rewards” thread. This is a “PvP and WvW receive items from content they don’t want to play, why should PvE be forced to play the content we don’t want to for the same rewards”, thread.

If it’s easy for us to obtain the season 3 map items and dungeon items (which is not true for all players while being able to play what they want for the day as well [or at all in some cases]) why should PvP/WvW? Why are we the only ones who have to forgo our content to obtain rewards outside of our content while PvP and WvW can remain in theirs and receive the same rewards? Not asking for more rewards quicker; asking for ways to play the way we want while receiving rewards from areas we don’t want to play. No different from PvP and WvW.

Perhaps I have missed it, but have you suggested lowering rewards for PvE, fractals etc in particular, so that adding reward tracks for those players does not increase the already significant gap between rewards in PvE and those in WvW/Pvp?

Yes.

You should probably read the words that others have written, and then
post a response of some kind.

Indeed. Ohoni has suggested this and I have, as well, replied with a similar suggestion in response to theirs. I have gone back and added it into the original post as well in hopes that people can see around the difference in PvP/WvW vs PvE income and see what it is I’m actually asking for here.

The point is however by raiding and running fractals you get access to legendary mats etc. Which is the reward type for that content.

By running open world/WvW/PvP you get access to standard loot which is the reward type for that content.

There is no reason why you should get both types of rewards from fractals and raids UNLESS you get both type of rewards from PvP/WvW/PvE.

However you want to try and spin this, you are asking for more loot. Even if you reduce certain drops (presumably you already have that type of drop which you are happy to have reduced) – you are still asking for more loot whether it be the amount or variety of loot.

If you are not asking for more loot are you asking for less loot? What you are asking for is not having to run certain content (that you don’t like) and still be able to access the reward for that content. I.e not run LS3 content and still get the rewards for it.

I don’t mind if you do that but I don’t enjoy raiding and Fractals so to make it fair lets have raid loot and fractal loot accessible in PvP/WvW? You can have the PvP wings in raids I don’t mind. You can even reduce the drops of other types of items in the reward tracks its okay.

Supz.9836:

The point is however by raiding and running fractals you get access to legendary mats etc. Which is the reward type for that content.

By running open world/WvW/PvP you get access to standard loot which is the reward type for that content.

There is no reason why you should get both types of rewards from fractals and raids UNLESS you get both type of rewards from PvP/WvW/PvE.

However you want to try and spin this, you are asking for more loot. Even if you reduce certain drops (presumably you already have that type of drop which you are happy to have reduced) – you are still asking for more loot whether it be the amount or variety of loot.

If you are not asking for more loot are you asking for less loot? What you are asking for is not having to run certain content (that you don’t like) and still be able to access the reward for that content. I.e not run LS3 content and still get the rewards for it.

I don’t mind if you do that but I don’t enjoy raiding and Fractals so to make it fair lets have raid loot and fractal loot accessible in PvP/WvW? You can have the PvP wings in raids I don’t mind. You can even reduce the drops of other types of items in the reward tracks its okay.

Hold on hold on hold on hold on. You apparently did not read or understand what it is I’m saying and are making it sound like I’m asking for more than what’s already being given to someone else who actually doesn’t deserve it.

By running open world/WvW/PvP you get access to standard loot which is the reward type for that content.

If you ONLY got access to “standard loot” I would not be suggesting this at all. What I am looking at is not what you receive from kills or the increments of the tracks. What I am SPECIFICALLY looking at is the end rewards of the tracks. WvW and PvP do NOT play dungeons or season 3 maps, yet they can receive the rewards from those maps (i.e. the gather node materials, the season armor piece from the achievements) and dungeon armor and weapons.

Now: You people who play PvP and WvW don’t play this content are allowed to gain these rewards, yet Open world PvE players and Instance runners are not? These are not rewards even connected to your game mode, yet you are able to receive them. This is my point.

You play the content you are comfortable in and receive rewards specific to another part of the game completely detached from your game mode type (PvP/WvW). Yet those of us who play PvE, instance or open world, are locked off from other aspects of PvE loot because we want to play what we want or, in the case of open world trying to run instances, not good at. Instanced and Open World are two different play styles and two different aspects of the same game mode.

As has been pointed out you can say the same of PvP and WvW. PvP is small scale player vs player fights (Instanced is small scale player vs environment fights that take place between 5/10 man groups and harder enemies). WvW is zerg vs zerg and open world event warfare. Open World PvE is open world events and open world boss fights (zerg fights). These game modes (PvP/WvW and Open World/Instances) are not indifferent from eachother, yet are treated differently.

Nerfing our drop rates and adding in tracks, similar to that of WvW/PvP, would allow us to remain in the game mode we want while receiving a way to gain items from areas of the game we do not play. This has no negative effects on WvW and PvP, it simply allows those of us who enjoy instanced content to obtain items from open world areas, and open world players to receive items from instanced areas, in the same way WvW and PvP are able to gain items from from those areas without needing to play them.

If you want to talk about receiving rewards from only the areas we play then I suggest you look at what your tracks end goals are and see that what you are receiving has nothing to do with your game mode. I say again: If you received ONLY basic loot then this would be a none issue. But you receive, through your tracks, items none specific, or even related, to your game mode. Thus why I keep making the comparison of Raid and Fractal items for PvE to your Glorious, Triumphant, and Hero weapons. Those stay within their own game modes of PvP, WvW, and PvE respectively, while the items like Seasonal items and dungeon rewards be applied to both aspects of PvE as they are with PvP and WvW.

I’ve not once asked for more loot or more items or anything “more”. I’m asking for ways in which we can continue playing the way we want while slowly working towards other area rewards in the same way PvP and WvW are able to.

I suppose having Reward Tracks for all kinds of rewards would be great for the players, but, perhaps, not so great for the game.

What incentive should ArenaNet use, instead, to lure players to content such as the Living World maps? Would there be enough population in new content after the first week or so (I think I read there is a population issue in WvW and PvP) if players never leave their preferred PvE comfort zones? Or would PvE Reward Tracks cause population issues just like WvW and PvP have?

Maybe it’s that ArenaNet looks at the good of the overall game rather than being unfair to certain sub-groups of the player population.

I don’t know, just a thought.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I suppose having Reward Tracks for all kinds of rewards would be great for the players, but, perhaps, not so great for the game.

What incentive should ArenaNet use, instead, to lure players to content such as the Living World maps? Would there be enough population in new content after the first week or so (I think I read there is a population issue in WvW and PvP) if players never leave their preferred PvE comfort zones? Or would PvE Reward Tracks cause population issues just like WvW and PvP have?

Maybe it’s that ArenaNet looks at the good of the overall game rather than being unfair to certain sub-groups of the player population.

I don’t know, just a thought.

You’re certainly right. However the issue with the populations is not that they are unrewarding compared to others; it’s that they don’t appeal to everyone. The way I’m looking at this is not to give PvE players ‘more’ rewards for staying in their game mode but rather another way to obtain items unrelated to their game mode that are already being obtained by PvP and WvW players without leaving their game mode.

When a person comes into the game they test out all types of the game, they find what they like, and they tend to stick to it regardless of the rewards. PvP players play PvP because they enjoy it. WvW players play WvW because they enjoy it. Instanced players play instances because they enjoy it. And Open World players prefer their casual open world game play. This is all fine, and most people will figure out what they like to play after playing it for a bit and stay there.

I don’t know how many people will bash their head against a game mode they don’t enjoy for too long just for the rewards. Everyone wants to play what they want to play. Thus why I want to keep certain things, that Ohoni is against me on, to their game modes. Raid rewards for raids, Glorious to PvP, Triumphant to WvW, and Heroic to Competitive. This will give people a reason to go to those areas, still. Just like the introduction of achievements and collections push PvE players back into the PvE maps. Some things should remain where they are.

When looking at specific items, though, like season 3 items and dungeon items; WvW and PvP already have access to these without needing to leave their game mode. Open world should have access to dungeon rewards without leaving their game mode just the same as instanced players should have access to season 3 items without leaving their game mode. I don’t know of many people who run instances over open world who will go to those maps and do more than what is needed to get those materials before going back to their content anyways. So they don’t add to the population of those maps in a good way all the time. And for Open world players, as I have pointed out, they will have a way to obtain items for content that they might not be good at (dungeons and fractals).

Tracks aren’t as simple as “play a few things and earn rewards”. They take time to complete. I’m not suggesting PvE tracks take any less time than they would for PvP or WvW to complete. Just asking for an alternative way for PvE players to receive items from other aspects of PvE content (unlike PvP and WvW who receive items from a game mode disconnected from their own).

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Or would PvE Reward Tracks cause population issues just like WvW and PvP have?

They most definitely would. That’s why PvE areas have unique rewards, rotating map reward tracks, unique currencies…

There is no reason why you should get both types of rewards from fractals and raids UNLESS you get both type of rewards from PvP/WvW/PvE.

Sure.

Yes.

All the types of reward from all the types of content. Rewards should not be dictating the content you’re doing, content should dictate the content you’re doing.

However you want to try and spin this, you are asking for more loot. Even if you reduce certain drops (presumably you already have that type of drop which you are happy to have reduced) – you are still asking for more loot whether it be the amount or variety of loot.

Again, no. You are not reading at all. You are just making massive assumptions.

No more loot, just more flexibility in the composition of that loot.

If you are not asking for more loot are you asking for less loot? What you are asking for is not having to run certain content (that you don’t like) and still be able to access the reward for that content. I.e not run LS3 content and still get the rewards for it.

Not “less” either, equal. It would be less from the base sources, and then more from the tracks, so that when combined they balance out to an equal total amount.

I don’t mind if you do that but I don’t enjoy raiding and Fractals so to make it fair lets have raid loot and fractal loot accessible in PvP/WvW? You can have the PvP wings in raids I don’t mind. You can even reduce the drops of other types of items in the reward tracks its okay.

EXACTLY.

What incentive should ArenaNet use, instead, to lure players to content such as the Living World maps? Would there be enough population in new content after the first week or so (I think I read there is a population issue in WvW and PvP) if players never leave their preferred PvE comfort zones? Or would PvE Reward Tracks cause population issues just like WvW and PvP have?

Four things:

1. The content should sell itself. It should offer fun and interesting gameplay experiences that people will enjoy playing, and which people will play for the novelty alone. If it cannot provide that, then it doesn’t deserve to have people playing it.

2. They can offer some items exclusive to the new content, which cannot be earned elsewhere and are cool, but these rewards should be shallowly buried, something players of all skill levels can earn in only a few hours or less of play, enough to entice people into the map, to get them to try it out, but then respect their decision to enjoy it or not. If a player does not enjoy this content, then earning these few unique rewards would be a minimal burden on their time, nothing like having to farm for weeks.

3. Farming the original content should always be the most efficient method. If you’re looking for Pearls, farming Siren’s Landing should always be the fastest way to do so, the most time and effort efficient, there should just be other options. Players interested in efficiency would use the original method.

4. Time gating. When new content is released, they could have a period of time, a few weeks, maybe even a few months in some cases, in which the rewards are exclusive to that sort of content. Only after this initial period does it open up for reward tracks. That way, patient players can still earn the rewards via tracks, but it does give incentive for early adopters to rush the new content and give it a shot.

Vyriis.6258:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I’ve got no issue with what you are asking for, as long as you remove most of the rest of the loot from completing fractals/raids etc. You’d then get the same amount of loot for time spent as in WvW or PvP.

Equality is what you are asking for, yes?

Equality is what I’m asking for, yes, but what I’m not fully asking for is a track that perfectly mimics that of WvW or PvP, either. We do get a massive amount of reward over PvP and WvW, this I will not argue. What I’m looking for is a way to receive the season 3 maps materials, and any other map rewards that are to come, through content I want to play. PvP and WvW are able to receive Season 3 Map materials and the special armor pieces that come with those areas without having to play that content. However Fractal and Raid players have to drop what they are doing and go play it if they want it. This does not seem fair. And us gaining an exact copy paste of the reward tracks, which does give loot other than those map materials and armor pieces, would be wrong for me to ask for, but I would like something that would work in a similar way.

If we did manage to get a track similar in function I would even be okay if there were no incremental reward that provided more loot drops and just get the “Reach 20,000 points and receive the map material or armor box”. I’d be perfectly fine with that. That would still allow us another way to obtain those materials and items.

You are not asking for equality. If you were willing to take a 90% hit to your loot from Fractals and Raiding in order to get a reward track, then it would be equality.

As far as time goes, you can complete a raid, fractal dailies and then go farm some of each S3 map currency, in a single play session and it is more loot than a WvW/PvP player would get playing several hours every day for a week.

Manimarco Devil.1790:

PvErs asking for more ways to get stuff easily. Why am I not surprised?

To be fair, the OP isn’t asking for more easily; they are asking for differently. (There’s another poster who, despite claims to the contrary, is asking to get more stuff and more easily.)

I don’t agree with the OP that this is necessary or even particular good for the game, but let’s not mistake their request: they still expect to do work, a lot of work. They’d just prefer to do it primarily via fractals & raids rather than in the open world. Some people find fractals & raids harder, not easier.

And it’s not without precedent. To complete a dungeon collection (by unlocking all weapon & armor skins), we can complete CM 103 times in explorable mode or play ~40 unbuffed ranked/unranked PvP games (with a 50-50 win rate). In other words, it’s somewhat less total effort to collect skins while playing PvP versus going to dungeons.

I still don’t think it’s good for the game because the rewards for raiding are unparalleled and they are pretty darn good for fractals. Maybe if the OP was asking for different rewards instead of things like substantial chance for ascended gear…

Dude, if you would have spent some time running around the LS3 zones instead of typing all of the essay replies in here, you’d have a few ascended trinkets by now.

There are maps out there with optimized paths for gathering on these zones. Hell, in Bloodstone Fen, you can knock out two dailies within like 30 seconds. Jump off the airship, spam the abilities (but yes, you’d have to earn them first), and collect the unbound magic laid out in the path before you. You’ll usually even find a node or two along the way.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Manimarco Devil.1790:

PvErs asking for more ways to get stuff easily. Why am I not surprised?

To be fair, the OP isn’t asking for more easily; they are asking for differently. (There’s another poster who, despite claims to the contrary, is asking to get more stuff and more easily.)

This. Not asking for an easier way to obtain them. Just an alternative way to obtain them. As I’ve been saying.

I don’t agree with the OP that this is necessary or even particular good for the game, but let’s not mistake their request: they still expect to do work, a lot of work. They’d just prefer to do it primarily via fractals & raids rather than in the open world. Some people find fractals & raids harder, not easier.

I’m not saying it is necessary either. I’m suggesting it so that it’s easier for those of us who play instances to obtain open world items while open world players have an easier time obtaining instanced items. Open world people, some anyways, do struggle with the instanced content. This would be a way for them to obtain it that doesn’t make them hate the game. Win-win, honestly.

And it’s not without precedent. To complete a dungeon collection (by unlocking all weapon & armor skins), we can complete CM 103 times in explorable mode or play ~40 unbuffed ranked/unranked PvP games (with a 50-50 win rate). In other words, it’s somewhat less total effort to collect skins while playing PvP versus going to dungeons.

That’s the thing right there. We could complete 103 of a dungeon path to complete the set. However this would have to be spread out due to diminishing returns and only being able to gain the actually completion bonus once per day per path. So that 103 completions would be spread out over months. Unless we just kept going at it with the dr in place, which would take longer. And again, some Open world PvE players struggle with this content while some Fractal and raid runners might as well. Or they rather spend what little time they have in game in the content they want.

I still don’t think it’s good for the game because the rewards for raiding are unparalleled and they are pretty darn good for fractals.

Raids are very rewarding; the first time through. Mind you this is also a weekly reward. I agree that it’s still a lot as a weekly reward, but for those that actually do run raids every day, and there are some, they get little from it except loot bags and a little bit of cash. While spending most of that cash on food and utility items.

Fractals I can not argue are the single most rewarding content, gains/time spent (outside of flipping the trading post), but that doesn’t change the fact that some of us do enjoy that content over all else and the items I’m looking at are unobtainable with cash or anything gained in fractals. Which means we’d have to put it down to go and farm those areas. And as I keep pointing out; some people don’t have the time to do both. So it would be a toss up for which they do for the day. And I don’t believe that is fair when WvW and PvP can remain in their content while working towards it, albeit a bit slower.

Maybe if the OP was asking for different rewards instead of things like substantial chance for ascended gear…

When in any of my posts did I ask for more ascended gear? I have not once said in any of my replies to increase the ascended income. The only thing I have asked for is a way for PvE players to remain in their content, give up some of the income from that content, to receive some of the reward from other areas of the game. I did, however, suggest a fractal track for the PvE track as a whole. I mean: This could include an ascended item, but I think that would be a little too much as a guaranteed reward. Though it would help those in PvE or the lower scale fractals to obtain ascended gear to allow them to more easily get into or progress in fractals. Again, though, I have not, in any of my posts, suggested such a drop.