Guild Wars 2

It sounds like everyone is complaining about the overflow system and not the event.

There’s nothing wrong with the event itself (imo) but if i can’t play it at all on my native server that is a problem. I have only managed to play it once on Gandara since the patch went live; if overflows were able to do the event it would not be such a problem, but every o’flow i’ve been thrust into has failed, which is a complete waste of my time.

Rhyse.8179:

It sounds like everyone is complaining about the overflow system and not the event.

I think that you are correct about this, even though some people put some other arguments in there as well, but you can clearly wonder if these would even be an issue if the overflow system would function better. Personally I think these other things wouldn’t even be brought up…

As a casual player, not being in a large guild, and having a ranger main… I have a huge problem with instanced big events. Mainly that if these events were instanced the chances of me being part of them are reduced considerably. But that is not the only thing…

Where I see people complaint about the organizational part of these events, I personally think they are not a problem, but the main challenge. We all have a main stake in making the event work, mainly the loot at the end, this means we all have a good motivational trigger to work together. Or we should have, and personally I think that that is the best thing about these big challenges, can groups of random people band together for a common cause or mutual thread. It is the birthplace of true heroes and leaders … WvW is a continuous battle of this kind, and the success of the zerg depends (in large) on how well people work together, it works there, so why wouldn’t it work on world bosses.

Also, we are 2-3 days into these events, and people have yet to totally familiarise with the best ways to tackle this, maybe not as a group strategy, but on a personal level. What is expected of ‘me’ to do here, what should I focus on where and when, and how does that influence the total outcome. Having patient and well explaining organized people around helps a bit, mainly, as people get familiar with the content, and start to figure out their part in the whole, it becomes more important to look at what the whole is doing. Aka, at first people are concerned about what to do themselves, as they figured that out, they become concerned about what the whole is doing.

tl&dr
Now, I see the problem already organized groups face, and it is made up of ‘having the patience’ to hoard the masses. And a big part is the overflow system, if the overflow functioned better, they would have an easier way to guide the masses. And I can only agree with that notion. Putting this kind of content in an instance wouldn’t solve one thing, except for shielding off this content for any player that isn’t a big enough organized group to take it on. sad face for a big group of the players

So yes, this is largely about the overflow system, because if it were to function better/easier, so that large already organized groups have an easier time to stick together, they would have an easier time managing themselves and the crowd.

last notion, while I understand the frustration of lag, there is a double sided edge here. In order to better understand the engine and why and where it is causing lag, Anet will need to set up situations that stress the system to it’s max. Only by trying to figure out where it all goes ‘belly up’ are they able to figure out where to fix issues and improve stability and lag-causing issues.

yes it’s no fun, I know all about that from first hand experience, but I do not see it as a reason to not do this kind of content. As it is only by doing this kind of content that lets them see where things go bad, and not only that, it also lets them see how to better design content to work around the issues. F/e the 5 lanes may be there for this exact reason, as well as the platforms. The same reason may well be around the 3 heads, having to be killed around the same time. Aka. split up the player so there are less of them around, meaning less stress on the individual computer system…

If you don’t allow yourself to make mistakes, then there is no fundament for learning, and getting it all right the first time, well wouldn’t every game studio want to achieve that. And if you are any bit of gamer, name me 1 game that got everything right all the time. There is none…

I like the open world raids. It allows me to avoid dealing with snobs.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Please, ArenaNet, do not make large-scale ‘raid-type’ content instanced. I prefer it the way it is. Thank you.

I probably won’t run the Wurm event again for a little while (we got pummeled night before last) due to sheer annoyance.

That said, I LIKED the fact so many of us were in there running around stupidly trying to kill that thing.

Eventually we’ll all “get it” and it will be more organized and thus the event will be more rewarding (well, not in loot terms, because… you know) – we just gotta get through this extra chromosome phase.

A easy way to fix is making failing rewarding too.

Dont’ emphasis too much on the completion of the event.

I thought guilds like TTS were using the overflows as a psuedo instance anyway for Teq… when you think about it… that’s exactly what they’re doing.

lordkrall.7241:

So people that are not part of those “elite groups” that are doing said instanced fights should never be able to do it or even see the fight?

There is currently a grand total of 2 of these fights in the game (Tequatl and Wurm or 3 if you want to count the Marionette.) out of how many?
50?
100?
200?

They should never mechanically lock people out of content, which they would if you were required to be part of a pre-made large group.

If you want to do raid content, find a group to do it with. If you don’t, go do something else. Those should be the choices.

Vayne.8563:

This game was designed so people could play different builds. Some types of players, rangers, necros, engies, have trouble getting invited to groups. But in open world content, they can play what they want and still participate.

And end up being the weak links that fail the event for everyone else…..yay!

Vayne.8563:

Phadde.7362:

Zeldain.5710:

Vayne.8563:

You split the playerbase and end up taking some of the people doing the open world event into the smaller raid event (because you’re not going to have an 80 man raid) and then if ten or twenty groups do this, there might not EVER be enough people to do it in the open world…and that’s a problem, because Anet wants this game to be about the open world. They’ve always said that.

But of those guilds aren’t doing the open world content anyway because it sucks, why does it matter?

It’s very reasonable to argue that adding an instanced alternative would make the Open World version suffer. The instanced version shouldn’t be released at the same time, because of this.

Instead, wouldn’t it make sense to release the instanced version (in a seprate part of the Mists so that it makes sense) a week or so after the original one has ended?

I really like this idea. My only question will be this…

Will the people who want this, knowing an instance is coming if they just wait, not play the content in the world and therefore end up in the situation I outlined above.

This dividing of the playerbase thing isn’t just my concern, it’s a concern Anet themselves have expressed before…in more than one comment.

Illogical argument. If it’s instanced casuals have as much ability to queue up and pug it as anyone else, all the instancing would really do is kill 2 hour wait times.

I miss the days when servers pulled together to defeat bosses like this. When it was a matter of server pride. The overflow system has ruined that aspect entirely.

Raid content should always be instanced. Dont try to be new and creative with content that requires obvious amounts of teamwork when you have over 50% of the zone players not willing/able to get into a TS/vent service.

Create separate “dungeon” type zones and the ability to bring in 4+ groups in the usual raid fashion. That way we can make up our own groups and actually complete content with people willing to participate how they need to.

While open world bosses are nice and fun.. going about it this way is just plain dumb. While were on the subject, you need to tone down the amount of HP to the rest of the world bosses OR make it so we can crit/cc/remove condi cap. For trivial set world bosses on a timer like these(maw/golem/etc) it just becomes a bore to sit there and attack a mob for 10 mins for maybe 1-3 rares with some blues/greens…

/endrant

vain 6563 chiming in for the standard “I’m against the OP”

Yep, you’re not a joke

Vayne.8563:

The issue with having both content types should be self evident. You split the playerbase and end up taking some of the people doing the open world event into the smaller raid event (because you’re not going to have an 80 man raid) and then if ten or twenty groups do this, there might not EVER be enough people to do it in the open world…and that’s a problem, because Anet wants this game to be about the open world. They’ve always said that.

It’s all very nice to provide a percentage of the players with what they want. It’s not all right when it actually ruins either the vision of the game itself, or the experience of that vision for those who are enjoying it.

Just as some people bought this game because they didn’t want vertical progression, I bought this game so I wouldn’t be forced into doing instances if I didn’t want to.

If you move this game so that people can experience the content in instances or open world, and you need less people for instances, you kill the open world.

For this reason I don’t think Anet will do it, even if you personally don’t like open world raids,

(cough) ascended. (cough)

Instanced, for these things, is truly the way to go. or:

Rod.6581:

Why not both? Instanced raids AND large scale world bosses?

who basically wins the thread.

Please Anet dont make it instanced.I hate instanced,i never even done fractials cause of it.No to raid !

Vayne.8563:

The issue with having both content types should be self evident. You split the playerbase…

The current system splits the player base. That is part of the problem.

Vayne.8563:

and end up taking some of the people doing the open world event into the smaller raid event (because you’re not going to have an 80 man raid) and then if ten or twenty groups do this, there might not EVER be enough people to do it in the open world…and that’s a problem

If there were not EVER enough people willing to do the content, it would be an indication of something wrong with the content as designed.

Vayne.8563:

Anet wants this game to be about the open world. They’ve always said that.

I seem to recall mention of instanced dungeons from fairly early on in the game. Then there is WvW and sPvP.,,hmm, and even personal story. It seems as if they have always intended the game to be about more than just the open world.

Vayne.8563:

It’s all very nice to provide a percentage of the players with what they want. It’s not all right when it actually ruins either the vision of the game itself, or the experience of that vision for those who are enjoying it.

The vision of the game…from launch the most challenging content has been instanced.

Vayne.8563:

I bought this game so I wouldn’t be forced into doing instances if I didn’t want to.

And you wouldn’t be forced.

Personally I would rather see issues with overflow and optimization addressed so that the encounter could be more reliably approached by those wishing to play with friends/guildmates, etc. Fix what we have to address the concerns that have been raised rather than just scrapping the idea.

I agree with the OP.

These huge free for all events are designed with the best intents – I’m all for challenging content.
But the execution is abysmal; If you want to be part of the actual server you’re playing on you best reserve your spot at least an hour beforehand. Back in the old days it was called ‘camping a boss’, must we resurrect this horror of the past?

And even if you managed to get on the main server it still is a gamble, will you have enough DPS, or reflects, or stability, or condition removal? You’ll just have to hope for the best because you have no idea what professions and skills people will bring along. And because of overflow nobody is going to leave if you, say, don’t have enough guardians.

I say bring on the challenges Anet, bring on tough bosses and seemingly impossible odds. But for the love of all that’s holy give us the proper means to rise up to the challenge, with actual planning and preparation and not mere thoughts of “hope I’m lucky this time”

One of the draws to GW2 to for me is the fact that so much can be done in the open world. If this game heads down a path of Instanced World Bosses and Elite levels of loot only accessible in that instance….well I already have other games I can enjoy that way. I like that GW2 is different in that regard.

Muhah! We did it, Even though we failed in 1 lane for the first go, then we failed in lane 1 & 2 … then we ALL rally in 3 and kicked that mariscarlet in the barings and she came tumbling down.

Most important ‘coordination’ a tag in all lanes and well distributed players, then one person giving boss details and directions (mainly when to back up lanes and from which lanes).

As I understand the wurm content, that isn’t to hard either, mainly need to get them all to the last ‘phaze’ then split up and kill them all. Now hardest is to get ppl to stop fighting, but I am sure that once players realize they have nothing to gain and all to loose for doing so, this even won’t take to much coordination either… On a full map it may even be enough to just split up in 3 groups

Rod.6581:

Why not both? Instanced raids AND large scale world bosses?

Primarily, it would go against the whole idea of what GW2 is pretty much all about: Nearly complete non-exclusivity with it’s content. This is the way the entirety of PvE is designed, from it’s classes to it’s open-world content. Sans the occasional dungeon group, you can’t say “no” to anyone joining your group. This is, to this day, GW2’s biggest strength.

It’s not without it’s problems, though. Having content scale appropriately for every player number is far from easy to fine-tune, and an emphasis on temporary content makes it essentially pointless: there can’t be much encouragement in perfecting encounters for 1 to 100 players if the content isn’t sticking around.

I’d love to see more middle-ground. I felt the SAB was a decent example of that – a simple example, but a decent example of having a dungeon that scaled based on the players. It wasn’t open world, but the concept is way more open than a typical dungeon set up.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Vayne.8563:

Phadde.7362:

Zeldain.5710:

Vayne.8563:

You split the playerbase and end up taking some of the people doing the open world event into the smaller raid event (because you’re not going to have an 80 man raid) and then if ten or twenty groups do this, there might not EVER be enough people to do it in the open world…and that’s a problem, because Anet wants this game to be about the open world. They’ve always said that.

But of those guilds aren’t doing the open world content anyway because it sucks, why does it matter?

It’s very reasonable to argue that adding an instanced alternative would make the Open World version suffer. The instanced version shouldn’t be released at the same time, because of this.

Instead, wouldn’t it make sense to release the instanced version (in a seprate part of the Mists so that it makes sense) a week or so after the original one has ended?

I really like this idea. My only question will be this…

Will the people who want this, knowing an instance is coming if they just wait, not play the content in the world and therefore end up in the situation I outlined above.

This dividing of the playerbase thing isn’t just my concern, it’s a concern Anet themselves have expressed before…in more than one comment.

If so many people want it instanced that it prevents the open world event from being done, then clearly the majority has spoken and it should be instanced. If people flood the open world event and are having fun doing that then they will stay in the open world and do it.

If the game has so few players that splitting the content into an instanced and an open world version cause the event not to be completed then I think the game has much more pressing concerns.

I mean you are always telling people that they can guest for free to complete the content when there aren’t enough players, so shouldn’t you just take your own advice in this case if it was instanced and available in the open world? Surely there are 100 players between all the servers that would want to complete it in the open world and not in an instance? They can just all guest together and organize, that is what 12 out of the 20 or so servers already have to do for Teq.

Sorry but your logic doesn’t follow. Let’s say 40% of the people want instanced. 40% isn’t a majority. But taking 40% of the people out of the world will in fact prevent the world from doing it. Even 30% might do that.

I don’t think the majority of people would prefer instances. I think that’s a complete misnomer. Even in games with raids, the majority of the playerbase doesn’t identify themselves as raiders.

So what makes you think in a game with no raids, the majority of the playerbase would be interested in more instances?

thefantasticg.3984:

I thought guilds like TTS were using the overflows as a psuedo instance anyway for Teq… when you think about it… that’s exactly what they’re doing.

This, exactly. They are creating an instance.

For this content to work for all, it has to scale, realistically. I, personally, would not care if the reward scaled down as well, Everquest 2 did that with the Public Quests and it worked fine. Full zones get the full hard version… and the better reward, no loss to the hard core. Servers that can put 30-50 people in for Wurm and Teq get more time, less adds, scaled down trash, less HP.. but no change in basic mechanics – they would still have to learn the strat. Less people/less reward, I’m fine with that, if scaling allows more inclusive participation by Server.

Instancing would not be needed then. As it stands now, we have “de facto” instancing, a limited means to experience finishing the content, less servers doing the content, and gates in the way both time wise and server population wise.

For people claiming that this is not splitting the game population.. not buying the argument, not at all. That is exactly what this is doing.

It’s as plain as the noses on our faces that ANet’s plan for the game involves a heavy commitment to large, open-world encounters. It’s too bad they didn’t design server architecture and game systems that are friendly to such content. Between overflow issues, performance issues and particle blur, technical problems take away from what otherwise might be remarkable content.

Open raid conent would be less overcrowded(=frustrating) if they did not implement it with time gated living story archievements.

TamTiTam.9574:

Open raid conent would be less overcrowded(=frustrating) if they did not implement it with time gated living story archievements.

You are aware that the Wurm (which is the only of the two bosses that are actually hard) is permanent with permanent achievements and not really tied into the Living Story achievements, right?

I am adamantly opposed to instanced raid content.

One of the reasons I came to Guild Wars 2 over the other MMO options was the fact I DIDN’T have to be part of a ‘raiding’ guild to experience the totality of end game. As a player with a full time job and a family, it is so much easier to just show up for an event – even if it is at a set time – and participate.

GW2’s open world content, while still having some kinks to work out(overflow, etc), works for me and obviously other people. Making it instanced is taking a step down a road that I personally don’t want GW2 to start down.

I would rather deal with the occasional overflow rather than having to join up with a group of people, get on their vent server, and have to listen to other people that I don’t care to socialize with. For me, it’s so much easier to show up, communicate through chat if needed, complete/fail the event, and go back to what I was doing before.

I like Teofa Tsavo’s idea. Same content. Same boss. Same rewards. Same timer. Only you get to make new overflow, with some system that prevents random people to join.

So we have a raid like structure, with chosen people. (people we like to socialize and talk, and have fun together doing stuff) While random antisocial people can do same content at the same time with same rewards in the open world.

Maybe even add scale system to it. So if 50 people joined “raid” overflow, amber wurm needs to swallow only 5 people. But this is maybe too much to ask.

Rod.6581:

I like Teofa Tsavo’s idea. Same content. Same boss. Same rewards. Same timer. Only you get to make new overflow, with some system that prevents random people to join.

So we have a raid like structure, with chosen people. (people we like to socialize and talk, and have fun together doing stuff) While random antisocial people can do same content at the same time with same rewards in the open world.

Maybe even add scale system to it. So if 50 people joined “raid” overflow, amber wurm needs to swallow only 5 people. But this is maybe too much to ask.

Which screws everyone who doesn’t do that eventually. The worry is that if people make exclusive clubs to do this stuff…ONLY exclusive clubs will do this stuff. And I’m pretty sure Anet doesn’t want that…or they’d have done instanced content in the first place.

As I said in another thread, if you have the amount of people required to do this content, go to an underpopulated server.

1) No overflows, nor the need to be there 1 hour earlier
2) Play with your guild mates / raid mates just like in an instance
3) Free up some space in your main server for the pugs to join up (less overflows there too)
4) The “locals” of the underpopulated servers can join in the fun and participate too (you won’t mid a few people joining now, would you?), potential for guild invites too

I don’t see the need of making them instanced, there is always a way to solve the overflow issues, play with your guildmates/friends and do it like raid content without any changes.

how about writing a grouping system where a guildleader can accept people into an instance without going trough the motion of “taxi” mist switch and overflow hopping.

The logistic task for a leader to get the people needed onto a map alone is a full time job.
let alone getting 100+ randoms to listen up and actually do stuff needed for the event.

So:
-Instant kickstarter trough guildtabs. for big events
-Guids creating their own instance/overflow of a map iow. “Teq is going to spawn in 20 minutes” please all gather and join (Evon Gnashblade or Kiel w.e.) and accept the guild invite to transport you to the Guild overflow map"
-Have an NPC sell the event. Kiel/Evon. once sold the guild has 20 minutes to gather and be transported to an empty overflow (let’s say every guildmember to interact with the npc pays 10 silver to be transported)
-A guildleader can start the event at any time once he is on the map.

-more suggestions?

Instanced and open world versions of bosses would work well together. The open world version of bosses could be easier (or at the very least have a lower base scale for terrible servers like mine.) The instanced (guild/raid version) could be the harder one, with the bonus reward being two commendations (in addition to the merits/influence.)

Anet has shown that they are capable of raid content. The open world idea is lovely, but there is no reason both cannot be done, and be successful.

Organising something in this game is terrible. Every time it’s a struggle for me and my friends to enjoy big events, since there’s always someone who has to spam “Join in blablabla”, or misses out completely. I know there is no easy solution. One map cannot possible support a whole server and guests (imagine the lag). I’m afraid anet painted themselves into a corner with this.

I think this can be done perfectly, as you mentioned Apprenticeship requires coordination and therefore greater recompesa is given, in my point of view there should be an easier commanders to lead. If for example you might be able to have each commander of one color and with a short sentence based on their group would be something great.

Vayne.8563:

I’m against instanced content too. It leads to elitism. It leads to problems.

Open world large scale content also leads to elitism (in server scope). And it also leads to other problems. Like those OP wrote about.

Avengor.9147:

GW2’s open world content, while still having some kinks to work out…

How could you forget the most important issue of open world raid content. Whether you succeed or fail, it entirely depends on random people. You have no control over them, as most choose to ignore what you are saying.

It’s not a problem for easy and intuitive group events like Claw of Jormag or Golem Mk II. But for more serious content like Tequatl, Marionette or Wurm it is problematic, because incompetence of individuals can fail the event for the whole raid and you can do nothing about it.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

how about writing a grouping system where a guildleader can accept people into an instance without going trough the motion of “taxi” mist switch and overflow hopping.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread that problem is easily solved by guesting (free) to an underpopulated server. No need for the instance at all.

@maddoctor

So, there is exactly 200 of us and we joined some underpopulated server, and everyone of us got in except for Joe. Now, Joe can not join us ‘cos some local player named Mark is doing some gardening on map to level up his cooking. Joe is is sad. And we don’t want to leave our friend Joe alone. So we try talking to Mark and asking him nicely to leave map so Joe can come and play with us. He can do gardening in overflow. But Mark doesn’t give a potato. He tells us that Tyria is a free world and he can do as he please. Sadly, we are forced to try guesting on another server…. Joe did joined us now, but Samuel and Isabella didn’t…. So after 20 guesting servers we finally decide that it is too late to start anything now and we should try it again tomorrow.

Rod.6581:

@maddoctor

So, there is exactly 200 of us and we joined some underpopulated server, and everyone of us got in except for Joe. Now, Joe can not join us ‘cos some local player named Mark is doing some gardening on map to level up his cooking. Joe is is sad. And we don’t want to leave our friend Joe alone. So we try talking to Mark and asking him nicely to leave map so Joe can come and play with us. He can do gardening in overflow. But Mark doesn’t give a potato. He tells us that Tyria is a free world and he can do as he please. Sadly, we are forced to try guesting on another server…. Joe did joined us now, but Samuel and Isabella didn’t…. So after 20 guesting servers we finally decide that it is too late to start anything now and we should try it again tomorrow.

How is this different from an instanced raid of 40 people in a guild of 45?

Rod.6581:

@maddoctor

So, there is exactly 200 of us and we joined some underpopulated server, and everyone of us got in except for Joe. Now, Joe can not join us ‘cos some local player named Mark is doing some gardening on map to level up his cooking. Joe is is sad. And we don’t want to leave our friend Joe alone. So we try talking to Mark and asking him nicely to leave map so Joe can come and play with us. He can do gardening in overflow. But Mark doesn’t give a potato. He tells us that Tyria is a free world and he can do as he please. Sadly, we are forced to try guesting on another server…. Joe did joined us now, but Samuel and Isabella didn’t…. So after 20 guesting servers we finally decide that it is too late to start anything now and we should try it again tomorrow.

And how is an instanced version of the fight going to help that Joe in your example? The instance will have a natural limit to how many people can participate (like raids). Now if poor Joe comes to join the battle after the instance is full it won’t be any different.

Also, I doubt any guild can field so many people at the same time that it will cause an overflow to be created only by them, if you manage that then congratulations….

Vayne.8563:

Rod.6581:

@maddoctor

So, there is exactly 200 of us and we joined some underpopulated server, and everyone of us got in except for Joe. Now, Joe can not join us ‘cos some local player named Mark is doing some gardening on map to level up his cooking. Joe is is sad. And we don’t want to leave our friend Joe alone. So we try talking to Mark and asking him nicely to leave map so Joe can come and play with us. He can do gardening in overflow. But Mark doesn’t give a potato. He tells us that Tyria is a free world and he can do as he please. Sadly, we are forced to try guesting on another server…. Joe did joined us now, but Samuel and Isabella didn’t…. So after 20 guesting servers we finally decide that it is too late to start anything now and we should try it again tomorrow.

How is this different from an instanced raid of 40 people in a guild of 45?

OMG.
No, really?
Maybe, because with instances (just like dungeons!) you don’t have to wait a very, very, VERY, frustating TIMER???

And if the first 40 guildies DO IT, then some will go out and help the rest…not the day after, but after 5 minutes?!?!

Man, have you ever played other MMOs? Instances are fun for friends and for making new ones. Where there are no instances, you don’t need to know each other, and that kills the so-called ‘’living world’’, and creates only a massive zergfest, hard to control, to understand, to enjoy.

And to pple that said ‘’i hate elitism’‘, i say: you’re like a parasite to the big guilds that actually struggle to beat it, if YOU are standing AFK or fighting with green-items or dying at the first champ. mob that places an AoE!

Making that boss and its achievments ’’temporay’’ only made things worse…

Let’s say hard cap is 200. With Mark, there is 201. He took Joe’s place. And Joe is our friend and guild mate. Mark is just someone who happens to be on that overflow w/o any connections to other 200 people.

Vayne.8563:

Rod.6581:

I like Teofa Tsavo’s idea. Same content. Same boss. Same rewards. Same timer. Only you get to make new overflow, with some system that prevents random people to join.

So we have a raid like structure, with chosen people. (people we like to socialize and talk, and have fun together doing stuff) While random antisocial people can do same content at the same time with same rewards in the open world.

Maybe even add scale system to it. So if 50 people joined “raid” overflow, amber wurm needs to swallow only 5 people. But this is maybe too much to ask.

Which screws everyone who doesn’t do that eventually. The worry is that if people make exclusive clubs to do this stuff…ONLY exclusive clubs will do this stuff. And I’m pretty sure Anet doesn’t want that…or they’d have done instanced content in the first place.

It’s a pity that the current work-around to the overflow problem is a guild alliance that manipulates the overflow system to produce as private an instance as possible. This is not an exclusive club, in that anyone can join. However, ANet’s approach to open world group content is moving away from the spontaneity of just being there and jumping in that I experienced at launch. I only see such spontaneity on a micro scale now, in events that have been back-burnered by the developers.

These events needs to be on there own maps (think obsidian sanctum) this way we stop getting people to tell others they need to leave the map if they are not doing the event, you know the people in the zone leveling. This also makes it that the people on the boss map are there just to fight the boss making sure you have the numbers you want.

I think these events work great, I have no problem with overflows and how they currently work. I love the open world feel of it. The hundreds of people I’ve been attempting them with apparently agree as I’ve see very few complaints in game. So in summary, face it devs, you’re doing great work, keep it up!

The problem with non open world events such as raid you let individuals have power over who gets to run them and who dose not get them run them. It makes ppl into dictator who normally are nice ppl. That is if its a hard event when it comes to say dungeons that we have they are not as hard as say a raid so its a lot more open but if you want hard raids like events and you put them into small man only less then 40 in a zone you will only have a small group compared to GW2 over all that can get it done.

Jski.6180:

The problem with non open world events such as raid you let individuals have power over who gets to run them and who dose not get them run them. It makes ppl into dictator who normally are nice ppl. That is if its a hard event when it comes to say dungeons that we have they are not as hard as say a raid so its a lot more open but if you want hard raids like events and you put them into small man only less then 40 in a zone you will only have a small group compared to GW2 over all that can get it done.

So, let’s go asking around how many players did Tequatle once. Sure not 100%. And Teq. was permanent. Marionette will be out of reach for casuals ANYWAY if they don’t have luck and time and get a spot on Deso main…or get the famous ’’taxi’’ from a friend…
And Wurm, well, we’ll see…

cut the crap, open world hardcore content is awesome, is just not for everyone, and thankfully is not that much, there is always dungeons and other instanced and casual stuff for everyone

Frenk the Vile.2596:

Vayne.8563:

Rod.6581:

@maddoctor

So, there is exactly 200 of us and we joined some underpopulated server, and everyone of us got in except for Joe. Now, Joe can not join us ‘cos some local player named Mark is doing some gardening on map to level up his cooking. Joe is is sad. And we don’t want to leave our friend Joe alone. So we try talking to Mark and asking him nicely to leave map so Joe can come and play with us. He can do gardening in overflow. But Mark doesn’t give a potato. He tells us that Tyria is a free world and he can do as he please. Sadly, we are forced to try guesting on another server…. Joe did joined us now, but Samuel and Isabella didn’t…. So after 20 guesting servers we finally decide that it is too late to start anything now and we should try it again tomorrow.

How is this different from an instanced raid of 40 people in a guild of 45?

OMG.
No, really?
Maybe, because with instances (just like dungeons!) you don’t have to wait a very, very, VERY, frustating TIMER???

And if the first 40 guildies DO IT, then some will go out and help the rest…not the day after, but after 5 minutes?!?!

Man, have you ever played other MMOs? Instances are fun for friends and for making new ones. Where there are no instances, you don’t need to know each other, and that kills the so-called ‘’living world’’, and creates only a massive zergfest, hard to control, to understand, to enjoy.

And to pple that said ‘’i hate elitism’‘, i say: you’re like a parasite to the big guilds that actually struggle to beat it, if YOU are standing AFK or fighting with green-items or dying at the first champ. mob that places an AoE!

Making that boss and its achievments ’’temporay’’ only made things worse…

Most raids in MMOs had lockouts. You started one and you got partway through and then continued later in the week. It wasn’t five minutes.

Half the time you had to grind stuff to make buffs for the guild in between raids. It might be different with the new budget raid finder raids, but don’t give me the crap about 40 people doing the raid and 35 of htem jumping back in right after to do it again with the five people that missed it…because it not only didn’t happen, it couldn’t have happened. Not back in the days of 40 man raids certain it couldn’t.

lordkrall.7241:

So people that are not part of those “elite groups” that are doing said instanced fights should never be able to do it or even see the fight?

There is currently a grand total of 2 of these fights in the game (Tequatl and Wurm or 3 if you want to count the Marionette.) out of how many?
50?
100?
200?

They should never mechanically lock people out of content, which they would if you were required to be part of a pre-made large group.

You clearly don’t understand.There simply has to be a piece of content only made for the hardcore audience.If everything is made for everyone there is nothing to strive for.Would you rather have an instanced area where you and your guildies could beat the boss in peace,it might take you days or weeks,but the sensation of achivement after beating it would be amazing or would you rather have new fights in this state,with lag,DCs and OFs.Current fights don’t require any brain power for a random participant,it only requires VoIP and good commanders meaning only a couple of people actually have to put effort in while the rest just tag along for the reward.If it was instanced,people could prepare,disscus strategy,trial and error sort of thing.

Back to the topic of everyone getting everything.You might think if you bought the game you are entitled to play through every piece of content,no you aren’t.This is a game and it requires effort to do certain things just like IRL.Putting effort and time into something makes it only that good when you get it.

Cappy.2786:

lordkrall.7241:

So people that are not part of those “elite groups” that are doing said instanced fights should never be able to do it or even see the fight?

There is currently a grand total of 2 of these fights in the game (Tequatl and Wurm or 3 if you want to count the Marionette.) out of how many?
50?
100?
200?

They should never mechanically lock people out of content, which they would if you were required to be part of a pre-made large group.

You clearly don’t understand.There simply has to be a piece of content only made for the hardcore audience.If everything is made for everyone there is nothing to strive for.Would you rather have an instanced area where you and your guildies could beat the boss in peace,it might take you days or weeks,but the sensation of achivement after beating it would be amazing or would you rather have new fights in this state,with lag,DCs and OFs.Current fights don’t require any brain power for a random participant,it only requires VoIP and good commanders meaning only a couple of people actually have to put effort in while the rest just tag along for the reward.If it was instanced,people could prepare,disscus strategy,trial and error sort of thing.

Back to the topic of everyone getting everything.You might think if you bought the game you are entitled to play through every piece of content,no you aren’t.This is a game and it requires effort to do certain things just like IRL.Putting effort and time into something makes it only that good when you get it.

I guess the question is what percentage of the player base is like you’re suggesting? 5%, 10%? Does anyone really know?

Writing stuff for a small percentage of the playerbase at the expensive of the larger percentage doesn’t seem like such a great investment to me.

A lot of the hard core challenge seekers have left this game already. I’m pretty sure there are more of “us” than there are of “you”.