Open raid content doesn't work!
I don’t want WoW like raids, I want Elite Missions for GW1.
The deep was easily my favorite dungeon.
This x1000000000000 I ran the Deep so many freaking times. Kanaxai is by far the coolest boss in the GW universe imo.
Edit: They wouldn’t even have to change the overall setup of it, 15-20 people in a single group splitting it in 3-4 groups of 5 at the beginning just like in gw1. Course they would have to change many of the other mechanics to make it go along with GW2, but it seems like it would give many of the raid people something they like, but everyone from having to mess with “PuGs” if they don;t want to.
Pinnacle of Responsibility[Mom]-Yaks Bend
Unstable Shield, Unstable Light
Unstable Shield, Unstable Light
(edited by sirflamesword.3896)
Right except that the living story brings people back to some open world maps at different points, which is what makes this game quite different from most others. We’re not all standing around on Orr, last time I checked. We’re in Bloodtide Coast and Lornar’s pass. Last month there were a whole lot of people running around Kessex.
The world is the playground here. It doesn’t matter if Fields of Ruin is dead today, it might be busy tomorrow.
You start instancing stuff and that could all go away.
It’s not bringing people back to the maps on my world. I’m on a low pop server that is being emptied because people are guesting over to other servers to sit and wait so that they can play with friends or at least with enough people to do the events.
If the events were instanced they could just queue up for it and play the game on their own servers while waiting.
Bingo. There are so many reasons it’s wrong. But, good luck there with Vayne.
The first time I ever did an instanced event with other players was Caudecus Manor. About half way through, the leader of the group quit and we all dropped out. How can anyone say that instancing is better.
Right except that the living story brings people back to some open world maps at different points, which is what makes this game quite different from most others. We’re not all standing around on Orr, last time I checked. We’re in Bloodtide Coast and Lornar’s pass. Last month there were a whole lot of people running around Kessex.
The world is the playground here. It doesn’t matter if Fields of Ruin is dead today, it might be busy tomorrow.
You start instancing stuff and that could all go away.
It’s not bringing people back to the maps on my world. I’m on a low pop server that is being emptied because people are guesting over to other servers to sit and wait so that they can play with friends or at least with enough people to do the events.
If the events were instanced they could just queue up for it and play the game on their own servers while waiting.
Is your guesting key stuck? You can play on any server you want. Sometimes I guest to lower pop servers for a variety of reasons.
I have nothing against open world raid style events, however I think ANet has a ways to go before they get the right formula for them.
For the marionette, they must reward completion differently, If I complete the second phase but others do not, it would be more fair to reward me a second chest (only up to a second though). Thus allowing for the feeling of accomplishment even when the event fails.
Secondly they need not strive to make things “a tad” more difficult than the average, and instead assume the oppose it true. Basing the toughness of the fight on above average players will result in below average results in most cases in a group environment among strangers.
If you want players to find temporary events fun, you must make it so that they can be done with a 50 percent success rating even if it means giving up some of loot for fun.
As for the wurm and teq, they will need to be done on a more regular basis with normal open world players to even be considered an open world event, as they sit now they will be done so rarely (reset sometimes) it was just a waste of dev time to create them IMO. To this end you may as well make them instanced.
(edited by Tommyknocker.6089)
The first time I ever did an instanced event with other players was Caudecus Manor. About half way through, the leader of the group quit and we all dropped out. How can anyone say that instancing is better.
Welcome to playing with humans in a game. It actually is not a problem posed by instancing, rather it is a problem posed by playing with humans. And, to be honest, it is not a problem.
The first time I ever did an instanced event with other players was Caudecus Manor. About half way through, the leader of the group quit and we all dropped out. How can anyone say that instancing is better.
Welcome to playing with humans in a game. It actually is not a problem posed by instancing, rather it is a problem posed by playing with humans. And, to be honest, it is not a problem.
That team kick on instance owner dc is another problem by itself which needs to be addressed as well.
The first time I ever did an instanced event with other players was Caudecus Manor. About half way through, the leader of the group quit and we all dropped out. How can anyone say that instancing is better.
Welcome to playing with humans in a game. It actually is not a problem posed by instancing, rather it is a problem posed by playing with humans. And, to be honest, it is not a problem.
That team kick on instance owner dc is another problem by itself which needs to be addressed as well.
The ability to kick is what is missing from adding raid content to the open world. You need the ability to kick to deal with griefers and the occasional player that is simply not up to the task at hand. It happens and instancing, with the ability to kick, solves the problem.
The first time I ever did an instanced event with other players was Caudecus Manor. About half way through, the leader of the group quit and we all dropped out. How can anyone say that instancing is better.
Welcome to playing with humans in a game. It actually is not a problem posed by instancing, rather it is a problem posed by playing with humans. And, to be honest, it is not a problem.
That team kick on instance owner dc is another problem by itself which needs to be addressed as well.
The ability to kick is what is missing from adding raid content to the open world. You need the ability to kick to deal with griefers and the occasional player that is simply not up to the task at hand. It happens and instancing, with the ability to kick, solves the problem.
It would be nice to deal have an immediate way to deal with people who grief in the open world. A few days ago when trying marionette, there was a group of rangers that would purposely play on lane 2 to try and mess up the boss fight. They actually thought it was funny.
I have to say, the Marionette is some of the funnest content in the whole game…
City of Heroes I think is a good example of a way to do it too.
Incarnate trials never required you to depend on someone healing you, or taunting enemies off of you. And you’d never have to join Ventrilo so some 13 year old could yell instructions at you.
You had to follow instructions, but they almost always offered you some sort of autonomy, because you’d have to split up during them.
These two were frequently completed by pugs without issue, often enough getting the badges for not screwing it up too
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lambda_Sector_Trial
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Behavioral_Adjustment_Facility_Trial
User was infracted for being awesome.
I think that the idea of both instanced and open world versions of the encounter has a lot of merit.
The closest thing to a reasonable argument against it has been comparable to saying, “if anet introduces new content that people like better than the old content that I like people might not want to play the old content with me any more.” I am sorry but, “I prefer the older content and don’t want people to stop playing it with me, so new content shouldn’t be added,” is a poor argument.
That said, rewards unique to each version of the encounter might be a way to make playing both desirable.
I know somewhere on youtube there’s video discussing the mechanics of the game, and when they got around to the point at which they were discussing the dynamic event system someone brought up griefing, and their response is that they worked hard to prevent any situations in which a player or players could actively grief other players through dynamic events.
What exactly happened?
When did the “Oh well good enough” mentality take root? Was it for the sake of pumping out speedy and shallow content to keep the locust sated?
For the marionette, they must reward completion differently, If I complete the second phase but others do not, it would be more fair to reward me a second chest
+1
It’s so annoying to kill your platform and look around to see a single platform has wiped and failed the event…
Right except that the living story brings people back to some open world maps at different points, which is what makes this game quite different from most others. We’re not all standing around on Orr, last time I checked. We’re in Bloodtide Coast and Lornar’s pass. Last month there were a whole lot of people running around Kessex.
The world is the playground here. It doesn’t matter if Fields of Ruin is dead today, it might be busy tomorrow.
You start instancing stuff and that could all go away.
It’s not bringing people back to the maps on my world. I’m on a low pop server that is being emptied because people are guesting over to other servers to sit and wait so that they can play with friends or at least with enough people to do the events.
If the events were instanced they could just queue up for it and play the game on their own servers while waiting.
Is your guesting key stuck? You can play on any server you want. Sometimes I guest to lower pop servers for a variety of reasons.
You can guest to max two different servers within 24 hours. And it’s not so easy to choose one. Because you can make a mistake by choosing either a server that’s abandoned (event is not being done) or a server that is overcrowded (you end-up in overflow).
(edited by HiddenNick.7206)
This is why mmos implemented instancing, because it gave groups and raito be more coordinated, without some random people messing up the encounter.
That’s why this open world raid felt kind of weird.
All the dedicated player just gathered to the same server or join dedicated guild[TTS], just so they can get rid of as much “random people who’ll mess up” anyway.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread that problem is easily solved by guesting (free) to an underpopulated server. No need for the instance at all.
wrong..
this is not wvw, this is openworld.. people are already guesting and this has nothing to do with lower populated servers.. this has to do with not getting in the event on your own server, with your own guild or friends.. not being dependant on upleveled players who can’t bother to come on ts or really serve a purpose, or are only interested on the loot that champions don’t drop, or not waypointing when dead because ‘hey why run when you can endanger and most likely get the people ressing you killed..’ or complain in mapchat about not being ressed. etc etc .. other 100 reasons i can mention why to make this event also an guildmission instance.
And that’s why I said you can guest to an underpopulated server to play with your friends and guild and do the event without worrying about the upleveled people, have you seen how many people gather for the wurm on some servers? Zero, none, at all times. If you already have the people to do it “guild mission” style, you can already do it with the current system, it’s free and easy.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread that problem is easily solved by guesting (free) to an underpopulated server. No need for the instance at all.
wrong..
this is not wvw, this is openworld.. people are already guesting and this has nothing to do with lower populated servers.. this has to do with not getting in the event on your own server, with your own guild or friends.. not being dependant on upleveled players who can’t bother to come on ts or really serve a purpose, or are only interested on the loot that champions don’t drop, or not waypointing when dead because ‘hey why run when you can endanger and most likely get the people ressing you killed..’ or complain in mapchat about not being ressed. etc etc .. other 100 reasons i can mention why to make this event also an guildmission instance.
And that’s why I said you can guest to an underpopulated server to play with your friends and guild and do the event without worrying about the upleveled people, have you seen how many people gather for the wurm on some servers? Zero, none, at all times. If you already have the people to do it “guild mission” style, you can already do it with the current system, it’s free and easy.
I was at one of the server and there are 0 people there. I suppose the next big problem is I don’t know how many guilds have 100+ people online at all time. My guild which is quite active average 35-50 people on at any given time.
I was at one of the server and there are 0 people there. I suppose the next big problem is I don’t know how many guilds have 100+ people online at all time. My guild which is quite active average 35-50 people on at any given time.
Well, I guess guesting works well only for those who can already field the required amount of players.
One solution to the next problem is to form an alliance with other guilds to reach the required amount of people. It could work, and you would need to do it anyway even if it was instanced.
Right except that the living story brings people back to some open world maps at different points, which is what makes this game quite different from most others. We’re not all standing around on Orr, last time I checked. We’re in Bloodtide Coast and Lornar’s pass. Last month there were a whole lot of people running around Kessex.
The world is the playground here. It doesn’t matter if Fields of Ruin is dead today, it might be busy tomorrow.
You start instancing stuff and that could all go away.
It’s not bringing people back to the maps on my world. I’m on a low pop server that is being emptied because people are guesting over to other servers to sit and wait so that they can play with friends or at least with enough people to do the events.
If the events were instanced they could just queue up for it and play the game on their own servers while waiting.
Is your guesting key stuck? You can play on any server you want. Sometimes I guest to lower pop servers for a variety of reasons.
So your solution to my world being emptied is for me to guest over to what is essentially an instance, in the hopes that I get into one that is populated and not just an empty overflow.
So basically if the stars align and everything works out I’ll get to sit around waiting for an event to start on a populated server while my own world remains empty. So new players that aren’t at level to do the events or have never heard of guesting are left in what looks like a completely dead game.
Excellent solution, thank you.
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
LGN
The first time I ever did an instanced event with other players was Caudecus Manor. About half way through, the leader of the group quit and we all dropped out. How can anyone say that instancing is better.
That’s not the fault of players. It’s the fault of Arena-net for even allowing groups to be disbanded because of the leader. It’s very amateurish design.
The easiest way to solve this:
Make the encounter both instanced and open world. Instanced being harder, open world basically being a loot pinata. Keep the rewards the same for both encounters, but maybe create an extra achievement (and title) for completing it on instanced. Nearly everybody should be happy.
- Everybody gets their loot
- Players who want the challenge gets their challenge
- Players whom don’t have the time to dedicate don’t get shafted out of loot
Everyone is happy, except for a select few whom may get offended that casual players are getting the same loot. If their enjoyment of the game is based on what others are getting for loot, well that would be their own problem.
So people that are not part of those “elite groups” that are doing said instanced fights should never be able to do it or even see the fight?
There is currently a grand total of 2 of these fights in the game (Tequatl and Wurm or 3 if you want to count the Marionette.) out of how many?
50?
100?
200?They should never mechanically lock people out of content, which they would if you were required to be part of a pre-made large group.
People outside of elite groups aren’t going to complete these events. That’s by design. The content is designed for “elite” groups, not to be completed by random pugs who just turn up. By placing them in the open world they don’t become more accessible to everyone, it simply creates an obstacle for elite groups to optimally engage in them.
First of all, groups like TTS need an overflow. If it’s not NA prime time this usually means they have to force an overflow by guesting to a server. If it is NA prime time, they need to engage in the tedious task of searching for an optimal overflow – one with as few “non elite group” people in it (so much for allowing people outside of elite groups to participate). Servers like Blackgate need to deal with half of the interested player population guesting to their home server to engage in the content. Both guilds like TTS and players on privileged servers have another hurdle to get over – getting into the map. Getting into the map is something you generally need to do early. Spots fill up fast and if you’re not there 30-60 minutes before the event begins, tough luck.
Do you even think your arguments through or are you simply posting to White Knight against every legitimate criticism brought forth? Why is it wrong to “mechanically lock people out of content”? Dungeons are instanced, Personal Story was instanced, even Queen’s Gauntlet had control measures for it. The wurm already does require you to be a part of a pre-made group. You can’t just turn up in your Frostgorge farming build and expect to pull your weight, you need to know the encounter, you need to work as a team, you need to follow instructions, to divide into even groups, to have certain roles filled and ideally you will have an appropriate build. If you don’t have these things you will not succeed.
The content is already designed for organised groups. The fact that it’s in the open world instead of an instance, that’s a hurdle that players have to overcome.
Right except that the living story brings people back to some open world maps at different points, which is what makes this game quite different from most others. We’re not all standing around on Orr, last time I checked. We’re in Bloodtide Coast and Lornar’s pass. Last month there were a whole lot of people running around Kessex.
The world is the playground here. It doesn’t matter if Fields of Ruin is dead today, it might be busy tomorrow.
You start instancing stuff and that could all go away.
It’s not bringing people back to the maps on my world. I’m on a low pop server that is being emptied because people are guesting over to other servers to sit and wait so that they can play with friends or at least with enough people to do the events.
If the events were instanced they could just queue up for it and play the game on their own servers while waiting.
Is your guesting key stuck? You can play on any server you want. Sometimes I guest to lower pop servers for a variety of reasons.
You can guest to max two different servers within 24 hours. And it’s not so easy to choose one. Because you can make a mistake by choosing either a server that’s abandoned (event is not being done) or a server that is overcrowded (you end-up in overflow).
Overflows on busy servers are often full and often get content done. Certainly that’’s true with the Marionette.
Right except that the living story brings people back to some open world maps at different points, which is what makes this game quite different from most others. We’re not all standing around on Orr, last time I checked. We’re in Bloodtide Coast and Lornar’s pass. Last month there were a whole lot of people running around Kessex.
The world is the playground here. It doesn’t matter if Fields of Ruin is dead today, it might be busy tomorrow.
You start instancing stuff and that could all go away.
It’s not bringing people back to the maps on my world. I’m on a low pop server that is being emptied because people are guesting over to other servers to sit and wait so that they can play with friends or at least with enough people to do the events.
If the events were instanced they could just queue up for it and play the game on their own servers while waiting.
Is your guesting key stuck? You can play on any server you want. Sometimes I guest to lower pop servers for a variety of reasons.
You can guest to max two different servers within 24 hours. And it’s not so easy to choose one. Because you can make a mistake by choosing either a server that’s abandoned (event is not being done) or a server that is overcrowded (you end-up in overflow).
Overflows on busy servers are often full and often get content done. Certainly that’’s true with the Marionette.
It’s still an unnecessary hassle, just to be placed in an instance with a bunch of random people, so that you can wait around for an event to start, instead of just being able to queue up and play with your friends.
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
LGN
Right except that the living story brings people back to some open world maps at different points, which is what makes this game quite different from most others. We’re not all standing around on Orr, last time I checked. We’re in Bloodtide Coast and Lornar’s pass. Last month there were a whole lot of people running around Kessex.
The world is the playground here. It doesn’t matter if Fields of Ruin is dead today, it might be busy tomorrow.
You start instancing stuff and that could all go away.
It’s not bringing people back to the maps on my world. I’m on a low pop server that is being emptied because people are guesting over to other servers to sit and wait so that they can play with friends or at least with enough people to do the events.
If the events were instanced they could just queue up for it and play the game on their own servers while waiting.
Is your guesting key stuck? You can play on any server you want. Sometimes I guest to lower pop servers for a variety of reasons.
You can guest to max two different servers within 24 hours. And it’s not so easy to choose one. Because you can make a mistake by choosing either a server that’s abandoned (event is not being done) or a server that is overcrowded (you end-up in overflow).
Overflows on busy servers are often full and often get content done. Certainly that’’s true with the Marionette.
It’s still an unnecessary hassle, just to be placed in an instance with a bunch of random people, so that you can wait around for an event to start, instead of just being able to queue up and play with your friends.
That I agree with.
I’m pretty sure the only ones that are against having both options are the people on the open world side because they’re afraid they won’t be able to find a big enough zerg to spam 1 with.
If you spam 1 constantly you should know that you can activate auto-attack with ctrl-leftclick.
EVERY MMO is awesome until it is released then its unfinished. A month after release it just sucks.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
I’m pretty sure the only ones that are against having both options are the people on the open world side because they’re afraid they won’t be able to find a big enough zerg to spam 1 with.
If you spam 1 constantly you should know that you can activate auto-attack with ctrl-leftclick.
Don’t know how I missed this comment.
No Jim, that’s not true. I can beat instances, and I can raid. I do just fine in dungeons and fractals.
But I didn’t buy this game to play instances. I’ve always wanted an MMO that was more about the open world.
And if you think you can just spam 1 in open world fights and win, I invite you to try the new jungle wurm encounter.
Yes there is plenty of content where spamming 1 does work. There’s also some content where it doesn’t.
I’m pretty sure the only ones that are against having both options are the people on the open world side because they’re afraid they won’t be able to find a big enough zerg to spam 1 with.
If you spam 1 constantly you should know that you can activate auto-attack with ctrl-leftclick.
Don’t know how I missed this comment.
No Jim, that’s not true. I can beat instances, and I can raid. I do just fine in dungeons and fractals.
But I didn’t buy this game to play instances. I’ve always wanted an MMO that was more about the open world.
And if you think you can just spam 1 in open world fights and win, I invite you to try the new jungle wurm encounter.
Yes there is plenty of content where spamming 1 does work. There’s also some content where it doesn’t.
The problem is that the open world content they have made kind of just took what you find in raids, multiplied that by 10 and stuffed it straight into the open world.
It ended up being like a bus in the middle of a river: you can still cross the river with it but it sure is awkward as heck.
Yea, I gotta agree with the consensus here…the boss content from the Wurm and Marionette fight are great, but they really need to be in an instanced setting to work well.
I’m pretty sure the only ones that are against having both options are the people on the open world side because they’re afraid they won’t be able to find a big enough zerg to spam 1 with.
If you spam 1 constantly you should know that you can activate auto-attack with ctrl-leftclick.
Don’t know how I missed this comment.
No Jim, that’s not true. I can beat instances, and I can raid. I do just fine in dungeons and fractals.
But I didn’t buy this game to play instances. I’ve always wanted an MMO that was more about the open world.
And if you think you can just spam 1 in open world fights and win, I invite you to try the new jungle wurm encounter.
Yes there is plenty of content where spamming 1 does work. There’s also some content where it doesn’t.
It’s not you spamming ‘1’ that is the problem — it’s the other 99 players you didn’t invite to the party spamming ‘1’.
Instancing is just a means to an end: allowing organized, cooperative play.
If you can achieve that without instances, then that’s a great solution. However the low-effort, low-risk solution to pull that end off is instancing with raid mechanics.
Part of me thinks that someone in ANet was thinking “hey, wanna see something funny? Watch this…”
I’m a practical person.
Wurm event once actual great wurms appear turns into a clusterphack of a mess. Stuns here, stuns there…stuns everywhere. Double stunned. Add to that the overall worst condition in the game imo….Immobilized!!! The you have the great wurm being invulnerable with a shorter than short burn phase.
Me being a practical person, I think I can say that with all the moving parts to this fight that this is a fight that will be hardly done with success. It’s pretty easy to see that. It was pretty easy to see with Teq. Anet has the metrics, I don’t. I would like to know what main servers are killing these bosses.
It’s been my exp so far that main servers aren’t. It’s been my exp that players are using overflows to do these things to maximize coordination. At least for TEQ post week 2. Players were killing on main and overflows when revamped Teq dropped mainly for pride in getting the content done. How I saw it anyways. Now it doesn’t seem to get done on main servers…at least not on my densely populated cough..think T1 server.
Let’s face it, this update is about Marionette which to me is just the right amount of difficulty to be had in a meta event such as this. Wurms on the other hand is imo a forgettable boss type. The difficulty is in all the working parts. Too many phases. Too many extra mobs. This fight probably isn’t rewarding enough for completion. In my opinion, the fight is a mess. Everyone running around like chickens with no heads.
I personally could do without and it appears that more and more are coming to that conclusion as attendance for the wurm event is getting less and less at times not close to server reset every day so far.
Hmmm, to me….these one boss events don’t compare to the great instanced raids I have been a part of in years past.
Instanced Raids have been:
1. Several in number
2. Large scale party allowance
3. Very coordinated
4. Role supported
5. Nice rewards (depending on how loot is distributed)
6. If failed…can continue tweak strat until group gives up. If not a tiered raid, can move on to other bosses.
7. Weekly timers have been the norm so have all week to do several bosses if not done in time allotted for group.
GW2 Open World boss are:
1. Either too easy like dragons or too hard like Teq or just right like marionette.
2. On daily spawn timers. Spawn several times daily with character lockouts on loot.
3. Have mostly terrible unusable loot. More often than not I’m using drops to gain MF%, gain a couple of silver or increase my dragonite /bloodstone dust collections.
4. Cannot guarantee that you will even attempt these events with friends or guildies.
GW2 metas to me are more akin to Open World bosses in other games. Not on par with actual Raiding systems that have several bosses inside one instance. Does GW2 need that type? Not sure, I personally would like it though. The game wouldn’t be hurt by their addition imo.
Should any of these Open World bosses be instanced? For me, it depends on the difficulty. If players are using the overflow system to create an instanced version, that should tell you something. It means that the content is too hard for the uncoordinated.
Most metas=crap rewards for being easy with no real need for coordination.
New Teq=bad for the uncoordinated, rewards seem better than most meta events. Has been for me anyways thus far on average.
Marionette and the other Living World Mega events= imo ofc, have been just the right amount of difficulty with a nice balance of rewards for effort.
Wurms= do I really need to say it?
So far it’s been Open World Bosses are good for players playing together, not so great for friends and guild mates playing together. All in all bring on the Marionette versions of open world stuff and instance the Wurm difficult stuff. If you can make the distinction between the coordination needed that is.
You could even do as someone suggested and have two versions. One instanced for guild/friend groups to be highly coordinated and one easier and tuned appropriately for the casual get along “I know no one here” groups.
(edited by Akari Storm.6809)
[quote=3576984;Vayne.8563:]
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
LGN
I’m pretty sure the only ones that are against having both options are the people on the open world side because they’re afraid they won’t be able to find a big enough zerg to spam 1 with.
If you spam 1 constantly you should know that you can activate auto-attack with ctrl-leftclick.
Don’t know how I missed this comment.
No Jim, that’s not true. I can beat instances, and I can raid. I do just fine in dungeons and fractals.
But I didn’t buy this game to play instances. I’ve always wanted an MMO that was more about the open world.
And if you think you can just spam 1 in open world fights and win, I invite you to try the new jungle wurm encounter.
Yes there is plenty of content where spamming 1 does work. There’s also some content where it doesn’t.
Yeah but that isn’t stopping people from doing it. This is why I want the option of an instanced version where I can play with friends instead of wasting time waiting around only to fail because a bunch of people aren’t really contributing.
It’s just like every other zerg you find in the game, there might be a few people trying to organize the group and actually support each other, but the majority are there for the loot and/or to level characters. Most of them might as well be bots for all that they contribute.
I have no problem helping under leveled characters through content when I know they are actively trying to participate and do their best but these events breed leechers that do nothing but take up space on the server.
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
LGN
I know somewhere on youtube there’s video discussing the mechanics of the game, and when they got around to the point at which they were discussing the dynamic event system someone brought up griefing, and their response is that they worked hard to prevent any situations in which a player or players could actively grief other players through dynamic events.
What exactly happened?
They underestimated (and continue to underestimate) the lengths that players will go to grief other players.
They never thought that players would intentionally sabotage their own success just to ruin someone else’s play experience. They figured having open events that everyone could participate in would mean all players would feel the need to win.
They were (and are) wrong.
I’m pretty sure the only ones that are against having both options are the people on the open world side because they’re afraid they won’t be able to find a big enough zerg to spam 1 with.
If you spam 1 constantly you should know that you can activate auto-attack with ctrl-leftclick.
Don’t know how I missed this comment.
No Jim, that’s not true. I can beat instances, and I can raid. I do just fine in dungeons and fractals.
But I didn’t buy this game to play instances. I’ve always wanted an MMO that was more about the open world.
And if you think you can just spam 1 in open world fights and win, I invite you to try the new jungle wurm encounter.
Yes there is plenty of content where spamming 1 does work. There’s also some content where it doesn’t.
The problem is that the open world content they have made kind of just took what you find in raids, multiplied that by 10 and stuffed it straight into the open world.
It ended up being like a bus in the middle of a river: you can still cross the river with it but it sure is awkward as heck.
Because the first raid bosses were so great. I don’t know about you, but I see development. How can you not see the difference between the original bosses and the marionette fight.
Raid bosses in other games have been evolving for a decade. Did you think open world raid bosses would just appear fully formed over night?
If ANet is not going to allow instanced massive raids, then eliminate this overflow thing and allow people to switch channels so they can team up and coordinate better.
It’s pretty silly that some people will never complete this content because they don’t have the time to log-in and wait 2-3 hours to get into the main instance. So they get knocked in to overflow where other peoples mistakes mean way more.
The only times I have cleared Marionette is when on main server where there was enough people to compensate for the general ineptitude of the casual player base (sorry guys but it’s true).
Either allow players to get into other platforms when they’ve finished their own to help out or provide a feature for people to coordinate better.
I mean kitten it, I’ve already cleared it and got Scarlets dumb book with the dumb code that doesn’t do jack kitten. I could be selfish and not care as I’ve “got mine” so to speak.
I really don’t think ANet plays Guild Wars 2 with their player base. They’re too oblivious for me to believe that, or there are too many brown nosers continually kissing kitten for them to care perhaps.
ArenaNet does NOT play Guild Wars 2. This can’t be.
I really don’t think ANet plays Guild Wars 2 with their player base. They’re too oblivious for me to believe that, or there are too many brown nosers continually kissing kitten for them to care perhaps.
Well, having actually played content with A.net representatives, I can tell you that is not true. And they could also tell you that I hardly brown-nose them either. Hell, I had a short spat with one of them about Tequatl DURING a Tequatl attempt.
The rest of my guild wasn’t particularly amused by the distraction.
What I’ll say is that they seem to have a vision for this open world “raid” content… but like much of everything else they do, it’s being done piecemeal… bit by bit… rather than all at once.
THAT much doesn’t particularly bother me (although I think I’m on an island there)… but I do not think even a significant minority of their playerbase shares their vision.
If ANet is not going to allow instanced massive raids, then eliminate this overflow thing and allow people to switch channels so they can team up and coordinate better.
It’s pretty silly that some people will never complete this content because they don’t have the time to log-in and wait 2-3 hours to get into the main instance. So they get knocked in to overflow where other peoples mistakes mean way more.
The only times I have cleared Marionette is when on main server where there was enough people to compensate for the general ineptitude of the casual player base (sorry guys but it’s true).
Either allow players to get into other platforms when they’ve finished their own to help out or provide a feature for people to coordinate better.
I mean kitten it, I’ve already cleared it and got Scarlets dumb book with the dumb code that doesn’t do jack kitten. I could be selfish and not care as I’ve “got mine” so to speak.
I really don’t think ANet plays Guild Wars 2 with their player base. They’re too oblivious for me to believe that, or there are too many brown nosers continually kissing kitten for them to care perhaps.
It’s silly that people think it’ can’t be completed in the overflow….because I’ve beaten it in the overflow quite a few times.
Please, ArenaNet, do not make large-scale ‘raid-type’ content instanced. I prefer it the way it is. Thank you.
- I to said that before these raid level fights were implemented, now I say make the kitten thing instanced, it’s obvious open world raiding was and is a terrible idea.
I’m against instanced content too. It leads to elitism. It leads to problems.
You must have seen the threads of people who only want zerkers, only want this build only what that build.
This game was designed so people could play different builds. Some types of players, rangers, necros, engies, have trouble getting invited to groups. But in open world content, they can play what they want and still participate.
This is much better for me than being dictated to by the current meta exactly how I should play the game.
There are plenty of games for people to play instanced raids. I sure hope this won’t be another one of them.
- Thank you for making my point ! (bold text)
these bosses are meant for people that know the game in and out and know their class in and out.
- If your goal is simply to participate there are numerous other world bosses out there below raid level difficulty for you to go and participate in.
- If you wanna contribute then by all means bring your A game which in gw2 means bring the most efficient build possible
- if you wanna play whatever build you like no matter how inefficient it is then why do you want to join a raid ? Raid definition, bring your A game or you will not come out victorious !
- Do you honestly think you can go into a raid with a crappy build and still beat it ? if you think yes you obviously do not understand the concept of what raiding is about !
- I’m gonna stop here cause this kitten is so obvious to anyone with 2 brain cells it’s making me mad.
Please, ArenaNet, do not make large-scale ‘raid-type’ content instanced. I prefer it the way it is. Thank you.
- I to said that before these raid level fights were implemented, now I say make the kitten thing instanced, it’s obvious open world raiding was and is a terrible idea.
I’m against instanced content too. It leads to elitism. It leads to problems.
You must have seen the threads of people who only want zerkers, only want this build only what that build.
This game was designed so people could play different builds. Some types of players, rangers, necros, engies, have trouble getting invited to groups. But in open world content, they can play what they want and still participate.
This is much better for me than being dictated to by the current meta exactly how I should play the game.
There are plenty of games for people to play instanced raids. I sure hope this won’t be another one of them.- Thank you for making my point ! (bold text)
these bosses are meant for people that know the game in and out and know their class in and out.
- If your goal is simply to participate there are numerous other world bosses out there below raid level difficulty for you to go and participate in.
- If you wanna contribute then by all means bring your A game which in gw2 means bring the most efficient build possible
- if you wanna play whatever build you like no matter how inefficient it is then why do you want to join a raid ? Raid definition, bring your A game or you will not come out victorious !
- Do you honestly think you can go into a raid with a crappy build and still beat it ? if you think yes you obviously do not understand the concept of what raiding is about !
- I’m gonna stop here cause this kitten is so obvious to anyone with 2 brain cells it’s making me mad.
You missed my point. I didn’t make your point at all. I simply proved that you play games competitively and you believe everyone has to be like you. You’re saying only you and players like you deserve difficult interesting content. You’re saying no one who started this fight improved because of this fight.
Anet put the marionette fight into the game in their own words, to help train the player base, and some people learned. It was Anet’s intention.
Now, interestingly, I don’t think this is the best way to teach someone, and I think that the aspiration, though noble, is largely wasted in this particularly design.
But I do think that over all the playerbase will start to get a bit better from these types of things. Or, those who fail repeatedly and aren’t good will get frustrated and stop coming.
Not everyone but some.
In this case Anet set the bar just a bit too high…but the idea wasn’t a bad one.
You missed my point. I didn’t make your point at all. I simply proved that you play games competitively and you believe everyone has to be like you. You’re saying only you and players like you deserve difficult interesting content. You’re saying no one who started this fight improved because of this fight.
Anet put the marionette fight into the game in their own words, to help train the player base, and some people learned. It was Anet’s intention.
Now, interestingly, I don’t think this is the best way to teach someone, and I think that the aspiration, though noble, is largely wasted in this particularly design.
But I do think that over all the playerbase will start to get a bit better from these types of things. Or, those who fail repeatedly and aren’t good will get frustrated and stop coming.
Not everyone but some.
In this case Anet set the bar just a bit too high…but the idea wasn’t a bad one.
That is the dumbest thing ever, MOST people don’t play video games to LEARN they play them to HAVE FUN. Just the thought of an ANET dev saying they want to teach their playerbase something new kittenes me off because it feels like they are talking down to us, which I know I can’t be the only one that doesn’t like that. Got halfway through what I wanted to say and remembered it’s Vayne I’m quoting and my reply is wasted, because he has brownnosed his head so far up …nvm I’m done.
Pinnacle of Responsibility[Mom]-Yaks Bend
Unstable Shield, Unstable Light
Unstable Shield, Unstable Light
If ANet is not going to allow instanced massive raids, then eliminate this overflow thing and allow people to switch channels so they can team up and coordinate better.
It’s pretty silly that some people will never complete this content because they don’t have the time to log-in and wait 2-3 hours to get into the main instance. So they get knocked in to overflow where other peoples mistakes mean way more.
The only times I have cleared Marionette is when on main server where there was enough people to compensate for the general ineptitude of the casual player base (sorry guys but it’s true).
Either allow players to get into other platforms when they’ve finished their own to help out or provide a feature for people to coordinate better.
I mean kitten it, I’ve already cleared it and got Scarlets dumb book with the dumb code that doesn’t do jack kitten. I could be selfish and not care as I’ve “got mine” so to speak.
I really don’t think ANet plays Guild Wars 2 with their player base. They’re too oblivious for me to believe that, or there are too many brown nosers continually kissing kitten for them to care perhaps.
It’s silly that people think it’ can’t be completed in the overflow….because I’ve beaten it in the overflow quite a few times.
Nowhere did I state that it “can’t be completed in the overflow”, nor were any of my statements absolute enough to draw that. I’m sure if people manage to coordinate properly anything is possible (which is why people are suggesting instancing so they can properly group and do so).
What happens to those unlucky folks who do everything they’re supposed to every time, but are in the undermanned overflows with the trolls or bad players. What about the bad players and trolls who get carried to free loot in the main instance? Is that cool?
All of that would be avoided if people could join up at their leisure and allow pugs to pug if they don’t want to deal with any “elitism”.
ArenaNet does NOT play Guild Wars 2. This can’t be.
That is the dumbest thing ever, MOST people don’t play video games to LEARN they play them to HAVE FUN.
I disagree.
Nearly everyone (should read as everyone) starts a game of this sort with the expectation that they will have to learn.
Learning how to play the game, or even how to play it well, is an inherent and unavoidable aspect of the genre.
You missed my point. I didn’t make your point at all. I simply proved that you play games competitively and you believe everyone has to be like you. You’re saying only you and players like you deserve difficult interesting content. You’re saying no one who started this fight improved because of this fight.
Anet put the marionette fight into the game in their own words, to help train the player base, and some people learned. It was Anet’s intention.
Now, interestingly, I don’t think this is the best way to teach someone, and I think that the aspiration, though noble, is largely wasted in this particularly design.
But I do think that over all the playerbase will start to get a bit better from these types of things. Or, those who fail repeatedly and aren’t good will get frustrated and stop coming.
Not everyone but some.
In this case Anet set the bar just a bit too high…but the idea wasn’t a bad one.
That is the dumbest thing ever, MOST people don’t play video games to LEARN they play them to HAVE FUN. Just the thought of an ANET dev saying they want to teach their playerbase something new kittenes me off because it feels like they are talking down to us, which I know I can’t be the only one that doesn’t like that. Got halfway through what I wanted to say and remembered it’s Vayne I’m quoting and my reply is wasted, because he has brownnosed his head so far up …nvm I’m done.
In some ways, you have a point. Most people play games to have fun. That’s true. But you need to consider that what’s fun to one group might be completely different than what’s fun to another group.
So if you’re an RPer and that’s what’s fun and you spend all your time RP and none of your time thinking about game mechanics…that’s well and good…but you haven’t actually learned the game. You’re playing a different game inside the game. Nothing wrong with it, but that’s what’s happening.
There have long been posts on the forums by people asking for more challenging content in the open world. Anet doesn’t want to just throw anything in the open world without people upping their game…because many people don’t play well. You can watch people and see they don’t play well.
You can go to almost any event and watch people just using their one skill and ignoring every other skill. You can see them using a weapon that’s bad for the encounter.
It’s one thing to say I just want to have fun and enjoy myself. It’s another thing to think that Anet needs to make a game just for people who play like you do. Because some people WANT to get better. That’s the fun for some people. I personally want to get better.
Where I think Anet made a mistake is making the assumption that most people do want to get better.
I mean baseball is a game too, but some people who play it want to improve it, even if they play for fun.
Why can’t you play for fun AND want to improve. Why do you think these are mutually exclusive?
You don’t teach people how to play a game by throwing them into a cluster kitten where they fail or succeed based a complete strangers actions.
You teach them by negative and positive reinforcement for THEIR actions and choices.
ArenaNet does NOT play Guild Wars 2. This can’t be.
You don’t teach people how to play a game by throwing them into a cluster kitten where they fail or succeed based a complete strangers actions.
You teach them by negative and positive reinforcement for THEIR actions and choices.
Yep, I agree. I’m against the way Anet has created this event to force people to teach the playerbase to play. I consider it bad design and have said so in other places as well.
There should be other tutorials in the game that don’t affect my enjoyment of the game. I don’t want to have to depend on you learning the content.
I simply proved that you play games competitively and you believe everyone has to be like you. You’re saying only you and players like you deserve difficult interesting content. You’re saying no one who started this fight improved because of this fight.
I used to respect your posts but this is the most ridiculous thing you’ve ever said mate !
- 98% of the game is made for casual play and I love it.
- 2% of the game has Raid difficulty level content and that is a bad thing ? how ?
- even the Dev’s are aware not everyone will clear this content, it is there for that 2% that is willing to go the extra mile and play the current meta game to the extreme.
- like I said there are numerous Boss and dungeon encounters in the game for which you can bring any kittenamamie build you want and still be able to succeed !
- there is a big difference between participation and contribution !
- a participant does not necessarily contribute, while a contributor is both a participant and a contributor.
- participant can be anyone present no matter how skilled or unskilled they are no matter whether they are hurting the group’s chances with an inefficient build or not.
- contributor, brings his A game and meta mentality, many here say I don’t wanna be pressured into meta mentality, I say well then why do you wanna join a Raid difficulty level content clearly designed and targeted at the 2% of the population that has the meta mentality.
- if it was designed for any build no matter how inefficient it would not qualify as Raid level content, it would be to easy to beat using the so much hated meta builds !
EDIT:
I’m not talking about the marionnette here, that kitten is just easy but it does have some implementation issues. I’m talking about the triple threat wurm Boss fight specifically.
(edited by Latinkuro.9420)
I simply proved that you play games competitively and you believe everyone has to be like you. You’re saying only you and players like you deserve difficult interesting content. You’re saying no one who started this fight improved because of this fight.
I used to respect your posts but this is the most ridiculous thing you’ve ever said mate !
- 98% of the game is made for casual play and I love it.
- 2% of the game has Raid difficulty level content and that is a bad thing ? how ?
- even the Dev’s are aware not everyone will clear this content, it is there for that 2% that is willing to go the extra mile and play the current meta game to the extreme.- like I said there are numerous Boss and dungeon encounters in the game for which you can bring any kittenamamie build you want and still be able to succeed !
- there is a big difference between participation and contribution !
- a participant does not necessarily contribute, while a contributor is both a participant and a contributor.
- participant can be anyone present no matter how skilled or unskilled they are no matter whether they are hurting the group’s chances with an inefficient build or not.
- contributor, brings his A game and meta mentality, many here say I don’t wanna be pressured into meta mentality, I say well then why do you wanna join a Raid difficulty level content clearly designed and targeted at the 2% of the population that has the meta mentality.
- if it was designed for any build no matter how inefficient it would not qualify as Raid level content, it would be to easy to beat using the so much hated meta builds !
-
I don’t know where you get your numbers from, but I don’t really now how you can say that 98% of the people who play open world content necessarily like it the way it is.
Last time I looked, the open world isn’t much used. Do you have metrics about how many people are playing the open world. Have you not seen players fail at stuff and get frustrated because they’re not good enough to do certain things? I see this all the time. I’m not sure how you can miss it.
There are a percentage of people who really don’t care about getting better, but there are also a percentage of people who don’t know HOW to get better….easy things they can do, like switching to a different ranger pet or weapon without affecting much else. Learning when to dodge.
When you pull numbers out of nowhere to try to make a point it doesn’t strengthen your arguments.
Do you not read posts on these very forums were people are complaining the open world and dungeons are too hard?