Guild Wars 2

I read a lot of complains against mindless zerging. I think it is a fair point. However this isn’t easy to fix. Is there any ways to design future contents, where an organized army will be more popular than mindless zerg?

The way I see it, most players just want to hop onto a zerg-wagon and farm mobs for loot. They don’t want to get organized.

The game also never “trained” the players in how to fight in a large army of 40+ players. All the Personal Story missions were very small scale.

The only place to get “trained” in fighting with a large army is WvW. And even that you have to get involved (joining or allying) with a professional guild to get training. Many players in WvW just hop onto EB and zerg-wagon away.

And is the WvW army organization the “correct” organization for PvE? Maybe the devs envision a totally different approach to army organization in PvE. How did the devs hoped the players will do these world event contents?

And then let’s talk about you. How do you feel about the current style of mindless zerg-wagoning in PvE right now? How do you envision it to be? How do you want to fix it?

Discuss.

As the first poster I do have a suggestion:

Bring back body blocking!

This will allow line battles, where tanks can stay in front to absorb the damage. The players can then organize themselves into elite fighting units, similar to the Roman legions.

This already exists. Anet programmed some events to actually punish zerging. Take the LA rescue event that happens hourly. If you zergball that, you’ll never get to the top tier 1200 citizens rewards. Players must split up to tackle multiple events in different places.

Also, with Guild Missions, we were introduced to some Bounties that can’t be simply run over, and challenges that also require people to split up.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

This already exists. Anet programmed some events to actually punish zerging. Take the LA rescue event that happens hourly. If you zergball that, you’ll never get to the top tier 1200 citizens rewards. Players must split up to tackle multiple events in different places.

Also, with Guild Missions, we were introduced to some Bounties that can’t be simply run over, and challenges that also require people to split up.

Yes splitting the players up is an option. This suggestion was bought up multiple times. I support this idea.

But I do wonder if it is possible to train/teach a group of 40+ players into a professional fighting army though in game content and game mechanics.

Like, if I am a warrior, I know exactly what I have to do in my 40+ player army to help my group.

If I am a necro, I know exactly what I have to do in my 40+ player army to help my group.

etc

Smooth Penguin.5294:

This already exists. Anet programmed some events to actually punish zerging. Take the LA rescue event that happens hourly. If you zergball that, you’ll never get to the top tier 1200 citizens rewards. Players must split up to tackle multiple events in different places.

Also, with Guild Missions, we were introduced to some Bounties that can’t be simply run over, and challenges that also require people to split up.

The problem with this event is that people won’t care about the rescue because the loot is better from the amount of lootbags you get from zerging around and killing mobs. It’s sort of “us v. them” attitude where some people want to zerg and others want to try and rescue (and some just AFK) so there’s a lot of arguing going on.

CHIPS.6018:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

This already exists. Anet programmed some events to actually punish zerging. Take the LA rescue event that happens hourly. If you zergball that, you’ll never get to the top tier 1200 citizens rewards. Players must split up to tackle multiple events in different places.

Also, with Guild Missions, we were introduced to some Bounties that can’t be simply run over, and challenges that also require people to split up.

Yes splitting the players up is an option. But I do wonder if it is possible to train the players into a professional fighting army though in game content and game mechanics.

What would be the incentive? What would stop people from saying ‘meh, this other game is fun without the hassle.’? Armies do not need to be organized, just that an organized army walks over and unorganized one, just as a mob of people in real life can walk over a semi-organized unprepared force.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

This already exists. Anet programmed some events to actually punish zerging. Take the LA rescue event that happens hourly. If you zergball that, you’ll never get to the top tier 1200 citizens rewards.

And the zergs could not care less, as they end up with multiple stacks of alliance supplies.

Well, on higher tier WvW servers, being in a zerg is fine, until you come across and organized guild full of skilled players. When a 15 man team can constantly run over a 40 man group, the fair-weathers tend to ragequit.

So I agree and disagree at the same time on the thought of “Armies don’t need to be organized”. For the solo player, any zerg ball is a welcome sight. For the skilled player, any zerg ball is a moving target.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Well, on higher tier WvW servers, being in a zerg is fine, until you come across and organized guild full of skilled players. When a 15 man team can constantly run over a 40 man group, the fair-weathers tend to ragequit.

So I agree and disagree at the same time on the thought of “Armies don’t need to be organized”. For the solo player, any zerg ball is a welcome sight. For the skilled player, any zerg ball is a moving target.

lol so what is the name of this skilled guild that can 15 man a 40 zerg?

Also Video or it didn’t happen….

While it may be a start, ANet would also have to change the how additional mobs spawn during a fight. Right now they spawn at virtual random around the edge of the event area, often behind or right next to characters already engaged in battle.

LegacyOTS.4681:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Well, on higher tier WvW servers, being in a zerg is fine, until you come across and organized guild full of skilled players. When a 15 man team can constantly run over a 40 man group, the fair-weathers tend to ragequit.

So I agree and disagree at the same time on the thought of “Armies don’t need to be organized”. For the solo player, any zerg ball is a welcome sight. For the skilled player, any zerg ball is a moving target.

lol so what is the name of this skilled guild that can 15 man a 40 zerg?

Also Video or it didn’t happen….

We’re called Maguuma, the #1 skilled NA server. We were the ones who came up with the anti hammer train builds. Transfer over and see for yourself how stronk we are.

Blame Daoc for the zerging in RvR, er, WvW. Jeez that was fun. Not much was done then either to stop it but not much seems to be done to here for group WvW play.

Every class is, or can be, a ‘jack of all trades…’ Hence the zerg, through lack of definition, which it does exist, but much less so than a ‘trinity’ based game.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

This already exists. Anet programmed some events to actually punish zerging. Take the LA rescue event that happens hourly. If you zergball that, you’ll never get to the top tier 1200 citizens rewards. Players must split up to tackle multiple events in different places.

Also, with Guild Missions, we were introduced to some Bounties that can’t be simply run over, and challenges that also require people to split up.

There’s also Tequatl and the Wurm boss which both require large number of organised players (split into smaller groups each focused on a specific task) to beat.

The problem is that a lot of people don’t want to do that, for various reasons. Some simply don’t want to (or can’t) commit the time it takes to get everyone organised and then play. Others don’t like ‘random’ other players telling them what to do. And some are simply casual players who aren’t interested in anything challenging enough to need that level of coordination. (And probably other reasons I’ve missed.)

If Anet made everything require coordinated groups it would exclude a lot of players. So they’re trying to compromise with a variety of different content that players can choose between.

But as long as the Living Story is the main focus I can’t see it every requiring large, coordinated groups for anything except bonus rewards. (Like getting 1,200 citizens in LA.)

Kind of hit on it already, Wurm, Marionette, and LA all require some divide in conquer. Problem is when you have zergers not knowing what to do it completely ruins it for everyone else actually trying. This is why my guild prefers to wait for overflow (Mainly for marionette) because people are more willing to listen and try things out it seems like in overflow. DO not know why. maybe cause they consider it a loss not making normal one or they think they might have to actually try cause it is overflow.

Lankybird.8149:

maybe cause they consider it a loss not making normal one or they think they might have to actually try cause it is overflow.

I’ve found that in many overflows the general attitude is that its going to fail because it’s not the main instance. Which probably contributes to people’s willingness to give something a go, they figure its no loss since they are already planning on failing anyway. Then, when you do success, it’s a surprise.

Go figure.

I also believe that before the players will get organized, the mobs have to get organized. And once the mob beat the players by organization, instead of a million health and damage, then the players will have to follow suit.

Perhaps something like the warriors in the frontline charge to knock all the players down, and then the mobs behind them follow with a AoE barrage to wipe everyone.

The main argument against Zerg’s isn’t about being organized, the argument is about large scale vs small scale. There are players whom simply do not like playing with others and they’ll complain on the forums when events attract a large number of players.

Mindless zerging is inclusive, whereas organization is exclusive. The easiest path will always be taken and when none exists, participation will drop. You can’t teach nor is every player willing to put in the effort to be organized. Some players are simply not capable of playing that way.

If content becomes too difficult for the average player, it will simply die out. Look at the Marionette for example. After 4 weeks, people still failed to grasp the basics.

DeWolfe.2174:

The main argument against Zerg’s isn’t about being organized, the argument is about large scale vs small scale. There are players whom simply do not like playing with others and they’ll complain on the forums when events attract a large number of players.

One of the reason is the Personal Story and Dungeons. The players had been doing smalls scale things from level 1 to level 80. So most players are not used to large scale events when the players were introduced to them in the Living Story . And since they are not familiar with large scale events rejection is the outcome.

If the game provided training in large scale battles, it would change the players’ attitude.

Healix.5819:

Mindless zerging is inclusive, whereas organization is exclusive. The easiest path will always be taken and when none exists, participation will drop. You can’t teach nor is every player willing to put in the effort to be organized. Some players are simply not capable of playing that way.

If content becomes too difficult for the average player, it will simply die out. Look at the Marionette for example. After 4 weeks, people still failed to grasp the basics.

I have seen this conflict of interest in WvW. On one hand we have professional WvW guilds who are organized, and want all militias around them to also be organized. On the other hand we have militias who just want to mindlessly zerg and get loot.

Now everyone paid for this game, so they can play however they want. But there is obviously a serious conflict of interest. One side want to prove that they are the best and win the match. The other side just want to casually play and get loots.

I wonder if we can find a medium to appease both player bases.

CHIPS.6018:

If the game provided training in large scale battles, it would change the players’ attitude.

We learn by doing. Which means more large scale living story events are required. And, the patience to allow people to express themselves until they get it.

CHIPS.6018:

I wonder if we can find a medium to appease both player bases.

Sure… GvG game mode please.