Guild Wars 2

Let us see damage numbers when we hit them in stealth.

Stealth is more powerful in this MMO compared to any other MMO on the market, or in known development. Period. This is a fact, not an opinion. (Unlike 100% of your original post)

So before you write your long-winded, condescending post which passive aggressively tries to tell everyone how bad they are, I have some advice for you:

L2P your own profession before you make any attempts at doing likewise for others.

Thieves (or anyone else) won’t like it when their crutch is removed from the game.

Eloquence.5207:

Thieves (or anyone else) won’t like it when their crutch is removed from the game.

Please suggest nerfs here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Nerf-Wish-list

Zacchary.6183:

You are thinking WAY too deeply into it. Of course, you can’t tell exactly where he is going, however you can pinpoint where he will eventually end up by monitoring him until he stealths.

By playing a thief, you understand their options and make an educated guess on their next move.

In PvP that is true cause you are fighting in smaller areas, but in open field of WvW it doesn’t work. Sure, you can predict where bad thieves will be, I have killed many of those cause they are just bad and predictable but the good thieves have a way of using stealth to keep you guessing all the time making you waste your dodges, blocks while slowly wearing you down. By the time you can figure a pattern to their movements (if they even have any) you are pretty much dead. Also, 3 sec of reveal isn’t enough to keep the pressure on them when they can evade and shadowstep during those 3 sec. You are lucky if you can get 1 good hit in before they stealth and heal again.

When I say that stealth is broken, it isn’t in the hands of noobs and wannabe assassins. It becomes OP at a certain skill level by guys that really know how to use it effectively and again, I’m am talking WvW not sPvP.

Zacchary.6183:

Sanduskel.1850:

I simply disagree. It is beginner friendly. I have found the perma stealth thief to be laughably opd, able to troll 5+ enemies without any trouble. It’s the worst mechanic I have ever experienced, even though I’ve benefitted from it.

Sanduskel.1850:

lol as a thief, I laugh everytime 5+ people swing wildly in the air looking for me. I can stealth in the middle of combat even while getting hit. It’s laughably op’d. most of my fellow thieves are such horrible players that they constantly complain that their class is underpowered! hahahahah what a hoot. clearly a l2p issue, since many of us thieves run over multiple players all the time. I doubt Anet will do anything about our position. they seem to favor thieves. just spam them with continuous complaints. I don’t care. I don’t rely on the cheese builds.

Just wanted to point out some hypocracy from a troll with a vendetta.

Nokaru.7831:

Stealth is more powerful in this MMO compared to any other MMO on the market, or in known development. Period. This is a fact, not an opinion. (Unlike 100% of your original post)

So before you write your long-winded, condescending post which passive aggressively tries to tell everyone how bad they are, I have some advice for you:

L2P your own profession before you make any attempts at doing likewise for others.

Most of the time, the players that complain about thieves’ stealth are the one who have never played the profession and doesn’t understand how it’s combat progresses. Explaining how the thief weighs and balances decisions is like explaining how a chess game will play out so the best thing one can do in any situation is gain firsthand experience.

Wrong. I play thieves. I can admit that they are wayyyyy op in this game, lol.

Zacchary.6183:

Julie Yann.5379:

Zacchary.6183:

Wintel.4873:

Rogues in WoW supposedly pulled the same reasons to claim they weren’t overpowered because stealth didn’t make them invulnerable.
But that didn’t stop the very MECHANIC making them one of the strongest PvP classes for around ~8 years in a row (while all other classes went though a rollercoaster ride of balance). They probably still are, I haven’t played for a while.

Face it, stealth classes in MMO’s are impossible to balance. Any class which has the ability to reset the fight at will holds the advantage.

No the strongest thing in PvP is, and have always been, good players. Good players know how to read others and determine the best action to take on the fly. Good players know how build their characters to compliment their playstyle and get the most optimum balance of survivability and damage based upon it.

In fact, most of the time the people who have a serious problem with stealth are those who have almost no knowledge about the profession.

The visual effect is psychological and requires more mental agility than normal to do anything with. Dealing with stealth has always been a L2P issue.

and that is why stealth has always been so broken, how can you effectively read someone who is invisible 90% of the time?

By knowing how the profession is played.

You know how your opponent’s profession is played, and the opponent knows how your profession is played. But you can see him, and he can’t see you. Don’t you think that “reading your opponent” is really uneven in that situation? Your opponent does not only need to outread you – he needs to do it by a huge margin.

OrianZeta.1537:

At issue is the liberal access and excessive use of stealth by thieves. Rightfully criticized, I feel, when the “annoy” thieves (as I will go forward calling them) simply do appear as invincible because a good one is nearly impossible to catch and down.

“Catch and down” is the big issue for many people with respect to stealth. If the Thief wins, the other class is dead. If the other class wins, the Thief runs away and gets to try again, likely choosing the time and place of the rematch.

Others have cited TF2 Spies in this discussion. The Dead Ringer was similarly a problem: I get a one-shot kill or I get to try again.

Astralporing.1957:

You know how your opponent’s profession is played, and the opponent knows how your profession is played. But you can see him, and he can’t see you. Don’t you think that “reading your opponent” is really uneven in that situation? Your opponent does not only need to outread you – he needs to do it by a huge margin.

Have you ever played chess?

Sanduskel.1850:

Wrong. I play thieves. I can admit that they are wayyyyy op in this game, lol.

What about all those challenges thief players sent your way? Since you claim thieves are OP and that you are a better thief than every other thief who complains about nerfs, you should have no problem fighting the other 30+ thieves who’ve asked to duel you in sPvP.

Entertaining and informative post, OP. As someone who’s never played a Thief, having some insight into how they work, and how to defend myself against them, is appreciated.

Once again, give the players some kind of feedback when they deal against stealth. Otherwise, “whack a thief” is not a very entertaining game.

Maestria of Strat.2974:

Where can I find the build?

If it’s my build you’re talking about, try the video description, or here now that I’ve copypasted it: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlcmKOHcy5E/5Ex2je6Te6VAsaPoZLhJA-jkyAYLBRiCAZBiKAm8KiGbxtIasaHMVZSVuRW7CIFQEjBA-w

You could play a warrior. Hmm didn’t you claim that you left your thief to play a warrior? Maybe the thief class just isn’t for you?

I think its because we can’t see if we hit them that makes it feel like their invincible. To peoples eyes its pretty much “Poof I’m gone” and a few seconds later a stab in the back with full life again.

I don’t PvP much but when I do its always the thiefs that get on my nerves with their peek-a-boo games.

Stealth sucks on gw2, everyone cries about stealth because they run around squishy and not realizing that the thief role is to dish out amazing burst damage.

While I agree perma stealth is somewhat silly, the basic thief does not win over stealth, they tend to win because other players do not gear properly against burst cannons or they have very slow reactions or know how to counter a thief then come on here to QQ how their berserker ranger got two shot.

So what does ANET do? keep getting rid of stealth slowly with updates, giving rangers reveal… allowing arrows to HEAT SEEK after you stealth which is so unrealistic and you have to dodge after stealthing now to get around that…

Stealth is actually bad in sPvP due to how caps are designed… you are punished for it basically and your class is about evades.

Thief class becomes odd every month of changes.

The mistake anet made was to allow us to stealth while in combat. No other game does that. I find it really easy to attack, stealth, get away, reset the fight then come back. In every other game, once I attack, I must finish the fight, not slink away.

As somebody with a thief in WvW, I can say you’re dead wrong, OP. Auto-attacks from the enemy do nothing while I’m in stealth. Want to know where I’m at whenever I stealth? I’m usually running at the enemy, dodge-rolling through them with Uncatchable on, killing them slowly from stealth using my bleeding. I don’t even need to exit it to weaken them for a kill. Caltrops, SB#4, anything that can cause a condition but no direct damage themselves can keep you in stealth. I can make them waste their cooldowns and condition removals without them knowing where I am. All while I’m healing within stealth, biding my time until it’s about to end, just so I can strike them from afar with the SB#1 to lock them in place.

I don’t care who you are, that’s overpowered. There’s nothing they can really do once I enter stealth, because unless I’m fighting a glass cannon (who will be killed easily if I get the first strike in), the odds of me living through the fight are 90%. Stealth makes that possible, and in every MMO I’ve ever played, there was always a counter to it. There is no real counter here, and it’s time they changed Stealth so there was…mostly because then they can raise the survivability of the thief in return (meaning toughness and vitality).

Also, your statement on what it would be for the other classes had a hole in it. Warriors SHOULD have to choose between large health/defense and high damage, no class should be that powerful with such little effort.

I see a lot of thieves saying not being able to counter a thief is a l2p issue.
Maybe you could turn that around and say thieves who do get killed have a l2p issue.
I have encountered good thieves which you simply can not kill.
Sure there’s a lot of bad ones that die to aoe and auto attacks, or have predictable patterns, but the good ones simply don’t.

Also this is quite ridiculous :

LoreChief.8391:

Mesmer:

• Sword auto-attacks

WOW! Look at all this Anti-Stealth you have going on AND THESE ARE JUST THE AUTO-ATTACKS!

Well thx i’ll just go around and swing a weapon which i may or may not have equipped, which will do 200-500 damage depending on the build IF it so manages to hit you once.

Sanduskel.1850:

Lol, so you know I don’t log into the game? Hahaha. Do you have cameras in my house? Lol. Ok. I am sorry that you are having problems with your thief. It’s ok, it takes some experience to know how to dominate as a roaming thief in wvw. On the other hand, this class isn’t for everyone. You could play a warrior. Hmm didn’t you claim that you left your thief to play a warrior? Maybe the thief class just isn’t for you?

Can you prove you have “experience”?

RyuDragnier.9476:

Auto-attacks from the enemy do nothing while I’m in stealth. Want to know where I’m at whenever I stealth? I’m usually running at the enemy, dodge-rolling through them with Uncatchable on,

I can do that without stealth. Same effect.

How is your warrior? Can you prove you have warrior experience?

Sanduskel.1850:

Lol, I don’t have to prove anything! You arent my audience! Can’t believe that you claimed you have “friends” tracking me! Lol obsession!

How is your warrior? Can you prove you have warrior experience?

Wow Sandy why all the anger? Seriously chill out dude, all this high blood pressure is not good for you and if something happens to you who else is gonna tell us that “permastealth” thieves are op 50 times a day……..wait is that a bad thing? :P

stealth is not invincibility… BUT blind spam+blind on stealth pretty much is.

Stealth

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth

" is an effect which allows the stealthed character to be invisible to enemy players and avoid being detected.."
———————————————-

Stealthy/Stealth

“quiet and secret so that no one sees or hears you”
———————————————

http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/invincible

“incapable of being defeated; unconquerable”
—————————-

Synonym-Invincible

http://thesaurus.com/browse/invincible

1. invulnerable
2. unattackable
——————————
http://references-definitions.blurtit.com/38643/what-does-invincible-mean-

In conclusion,

“The word can be used in various contexts and whether it is a sports team, an army or a person you can use the word freely if they fall under the category of being undefeatable”.
————————————

Final Conclusion

Stealth and invincibility are synonyms; they share the same similarities, behaviors and uniqueness.

In other word, like a husband and a wife; you can not separate them, they are faithfully married to each other.

Thief is built around Stealth/Invincibility, and that is why this class is very hard to break

(it is the same, as we are trying so hard to separate stealth from invincibility; in the end, we all will fail miserably)

it is also the same way when you try so hard to septate a faithful husband and a wife; you will fail miserably.

That is also why we will continue to fail miserably to thief class in years to come.

Nerfing them is not the way..

Nerfing them will not be the way…

There’s no other way…

except

to completely ‘break’ redesign thief class from the ground up.

It’s the Truth

If you don’t want the truth?, if you don’t want to accept the truth? if you don’t like the truth? if you do not want to take action for the truth; than nothing will happen, nothing will be done, to thief class,

Including Dec 10

Yes, i said that right!

Nothing will happen to thief class!!

As the saying goes, “the truth will set you free, only if you want to change for the good”

The good for thief class, is for complete class redesign.

Period!!

“Thief is built around Stealth/Invincibility, and that is why this class is very hard to break.”

I will say this only once: Stealth <> Invicibility.

The good players will manage to kill a thief with ease – prehaps try playing them a bit more often first, learn what can kill you (even whilst in stealth). The poster has given many good items that can be used against thiefs.

My best one: Imobolise them when you see them – if they ‘hide’ make sure you fire those heavy conditions off and a nice bit of AOE skills (Wars try using a longbow and press F1). Using cripple will ensure they cannot run that far away from you when they come out of stealth (can’t hide forever).

They take lots of damage easily and can be easily considered one of the more squishy classes – it takes a lot of patience and skill to play a good thief (even with stealth).

The problem I see is it doesnt take a lot of skill to play a war/guard with heavy armor – you take down other foes easily (in PvE, WvW, PvP), learn your skill set available to you and you’ll start taking down the thiefs easily which hide.

Stealth is ok, continuous usage with low cooldowns isn’t.

Everyone QQing on thieves please read this in its entirety….
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_thief_skills
It’s been a year and people have already adapted.
Seriously…learn to plan your attacks and anticipate their movements…..
There are mesmers who stealth wayyy more than a thief and cause me much more grief, yet I find ways to deal with them because I know what to expect from them.
You guys never learn…..smh. Don’t be a scrub and rush in head on please.
If you really want to deal with a thief use CC’s, blinds, blocks, weakness, vulnerability, chill, poison, cripple, bleed, fear…………………..Basically, learn to play your kitten class.

VomitSpit.6843:

Seriously…learn to plan your attacks and anticipate their movements…..

Once again:

what happens if the thief is a slightly decent player and does his job of being unpredictable?

Its not PvE….a player can be predictable…an invisible player is predictable only if really bad.

when a thief stealth he can do anything….the fact most bad thieves can be predicted, just shows a low floorskill for the profession (NB skill ceiling “may” be high…….).

Nothing forces you to sit in shadow ref for 8 seconds, nothing forces you to enter it at 10% HP and so on….

Predictable and stealth is an oxymoron.

LordByron.8369:

what happens if the thief is a slightly decent player and does his job of being unpredictable?

This makes me laugh. Any thief, let alone any class with a decent player will not give away what skill they’re going to use. You wouldn’t tell someone you’re fighting, oh im going to punch you in your face so you should dodge. And if you aren’t predicting what is coming at you, what are you going to do? Stand there and take a hit while you could’ve dodged it.

LordByron.8369:

Its not PvE….a player can be predictable…an invisible player is predictable only if really bad.

LordByron.8369:

Predictable and stealth is an oxymoron.

You just contradicted yourself there. So much for oxymoron.

I have to say i really love this thread. It really shows how many people glamorized this entire class as a an unkillable super mega terrible damage burst godmode all of this based on very little if absolutely no experience of actually playing the class.

Oh yes, how strong and powerful stealth is, how game breaking it is, oh yes, oh yes how we need to nerf them for the good of this games balance….but not the insane condi necros and engis, the perplexity abusing engis, the menagerie necros and rangers (if this continues those playstyles will start to resembles an RTS), cc warrs, etc etc or any other cheese build from any other class. Oh yes nerf thieves down but don’t you dare touch my class and it’s low risk high, reward builds, no no cause mine is not op but theirs are cause they have stealth.

Don’t you worry your little hearts they are going to nerf into the ground both the stealth and non stealth thief builds (see the dec 10th balance patch) and thieves will be almost out of the meta. But once they are out, beware because now your classes and builds will be on the chopping block, especially the very complained ones like hambows warriors who are already gonna start suffer some nerfs next patch. We’ll see how fun it is when the shoe is in the other foot.

AlexEBT.7240:

I have to say i really love this thread. It really shows how many people glamorized this entire class as a an unkillable super mega terrible damage burst godmode all of this based on very little if absolutely no experience of actually playing the class.

Oh yes, how strong and powerful stealth is, how game breaking it is, oh yes, oh yes how we need to nerf them for the good of this games balance….but not the insane condi necros and engis, the perplexity abusing engis, the menagerie necros and rangers (if this continues those playstyles will start to resembles an RTS), cc warrs, etc etc or any other cheese build from any other class. Oh yes nerf thieves down but don’t you dare touch my class and it’s low risk high, reward builds, no no cause mine is not op but theirs are cause they have stealth.

Don’t you worry your little hearts they are going to nerf into the ground both the stealth and non stealth thief builds (see the dec 10th balance patch) and thieves will be almost out of the meta. But once they are out, beware because now your classes and builds will be on the chopping block, especially the very complained ones like hambows warriors who are already gonna start suffer some nerfs next patch. We’ll see how fun it is when the shoe is in the other foot.

Everyone needs to read this. Please and thank you.

VomitSpit.6843:

Everyone QQing on thieves please read this in its entirety….
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_thief_skills
It’s been a year and people have already adapted.
Seriously…learn to plan your attacks and anticipate their movements…..

You do realize, that thieves can also plan their attacks and predict your movements, right? And in the predicting/planning game thieves have an advantage due to being able to see their enemies (while the enemies must guess everything).

Unless, of course, you assume that the thief player is much less skilled than their opponent. And even then, above certain skill threshold, he has a great chance of surviving such encounter.

Of course, needing such assumptions to “equalize” the argument, tells a lot about how OP the stealth mechanic is currently.

AlexEBT.7240:

Oh yes, how strong and powerful stealth is, how game breaking it is, oh yes, oh yes how we need to nerf them for the good of this games balance….but not the insane condi necros and engis, the perplexity abusing engis, the menagerie necros and rangers (if this continues those playstyles will start to resembles an RTS), cc warrs, etc etc or any other cheese build from any other class.

There are topics about all of those, and more. Even about OP rangers (lol). You were saying?

Astralporing.1957:

There are topics about all of those, and more. Even about OP rangers (lol). You were saying?

Last time i checked they aren’t being nerfed to the point their class only has 2 viable builds in the case of the thief D/D backstab build and the P/D conid build both of them being very lackluster builds to begin with (that’s why very few use them). But how i said once you won’t have any scapegoat to blame, the devs will come and start anew their nerf cycle on the most complained build or profession, just pray it won’t be yours. The ele balance updates we had back in the summer are a dark reminder of what the balance team is capable of.

Astralporing.1957:

You do realize, that thieves can also plan their attacks and predict your movements, right? And in the predicting/planning game thieves have an advantage due to being able to see their enemies (while the enemies must guess everything).

Yes, but due to the thief’s low health pool and low toughness we are at a disadvantage when revealed. High risk/High reward.

Even then, like the OP has stated in the title. Stealth is not invincibility. Thieves can still get hurt while in stealth.

AlexEBT.7240:

Astralporing.1957:

There are topics about all of those, and more. Even about OP rangers (lol). You were saying?

Last time i checked they aren’t being nerfed to the point their class only has 2 viable builds in the case of the thief D/D backstab build and the P/D conid build both of them being very lackluster builds to begin with (that’s why very few use them). But how i said once you won’t have any scapegoat to blame, the devs will come and start anew their nerf cycle on the most complained build or profession, just pray it won’t be yours. The ele balance updates we had back in the summer are a dark reminder of what the balance team is capable of.

I laughed. Try a regen bunker build (which is also condition) as a thief if you plan on doing WvW, it works wonders.

RyuDragnier.9476:

AlexEBT.7240:

Astralporing.1957:

There are topics about all of those, and more. Even about OP rangers (lol). You were saying?

Last time i checked they aren’t being nerfed to the point their class only has 2 viable builds in the case of the thief D/D backstab build and the P/D conid build both of them being very lackluster builds to begin with (that’s why very few use them). But how i said once you won’t have any scapegoat to blame, the devs will come and start anew their nerf cycle on the most complained build or profession, just pray it won’t be yours. The ele balance updates we had back in the summer are a dark reminder of what the balance team is capable of.

I laughed. Try a regen bunker build (which is also condition) as a thief if you plan on doing WvW, it works wonders.

And this is why the current condi-meta state is more OP than stealth.

“L2whack-a-thief scrubs”

Give each profession more options to reveal stealth, and/or give visual feedback when stealth players are hit (damage, bleed, burn, etc).

1337 thieves won’t be affected since they have uber high skill ceiling already. #MLG

1337 thieves don’t require constant stealth as a crutch amirite?

Viking Jorun.5413:

I run a full burst D/D spec and my backstabs generally only crit for 6-8k. You’re sorely mistaken if you think that we can hit you for over 10k if you have even remotely close to full exotic armor. My autoattacks generally hit for 1k, 1k then 2 2k hits.

you had a nice first couple posts, but this is total BS. Thieves can hit for over 10k easily.

I have over 2900 armor, hit with 9.8k backstab. No exaggeration (and no vulnerability). Screenshot attached.

the problem with thieves isnt that they have “stealth”; the problem is the way stealth has been implemented. stealthing every few seconds is unheard of in MMO’s; where typically restealthing comes at the cost of a long 45-60sec vanish type of cooldown. This cooldown in other games is a powerful trade off: do i use it to escape, or to get another huge burst?

welcome to GW2, where vanish has a 4 second cd and there is never any hard choice between reopening and running away. it creates a very low effective skill ceiling for the class and creates an entity that pretty much the entire community hates to engage in fighting against. On top of that, it creates a situation where thieves cant get the survivable stats they need for enjoyable in-your-face evasive combat because in conjunction with this extremely poor implementation of stealth, a good evasive fighter with more than 3hp might be OP.

tl;dr
The way Arenanet has implemented stealth is bad for everyone in the game, including thieves. I’d put it up there as one of the worst design decisions ever made in an MMO, but i might be a little harsh of a critic.

-Sincerely,
A thief who plays more than just a thief.

Raven.9603:

Viking Jorun.5413:

I run a full burst D/D spec and my backstabs generally only crit for 6-8k. You’re sorely mistaken if you think that we can hit you for over 10k if you have even remotely close to full exotic armor. My autoattacks generally hit for 1k, 1k then 2 2k hits.

you had a nice first couple posts, but this is total BS. Thieves can hit for over 10k easily.

I have over 2900 armor, hit with 9.8k backstab. No exaggeration (and no vulnerability). Screenshot attached.

the problem with thieves isnt that they have “stealth”; the problem is the way stealth has been implemented. stealthing every few seconds is unheard of in MMO’s; where typically restealthing comes at the cost of a long 45-60sec vanish type of cooldown. This cooldown in other games is a powerful trade off: do i use it to escape, or to get another huge burst?

welcome to GW2, where vanish has a 4 second cd and there is never any hard choice between reopening and running away. it creates a very low effective skill ceiling for the class and creates an entity that pretty much the entire community hates to engage in fighting against. On top of that, it creates a situation where thieves cant get the survivable stats they need for enjoyable in-your-face evasive combat because in conjunction with this extremely poor implementation of stealth, a good evasive fighter with more than 3hp might be OP.

tl;dr
The way Arenanet has implemented stealth is bad for everyone in the game, including thieves. I’d put it up there as one of the worst design decisions ever made in an MMO, but i might be a little harsh of a critic.

-Sincerely,
A thief who plays more than just a thief.

backstab is only 806 base dmg. it requires stealth first, and a target’s back.

warrior axe 1 does that with just the first two parts of the chain.
point is, if you can get 10k with it, so what, someone else can get 10k with the same stat setup in 2 seconds. just as easily if not more so.

stealth is only good at running away, it can be used offensively with skill, but a good theif is not better than any other class. Look at SPVP, thieves are barely in the meta, and its not really the stealth builds that are. truth is stealth aint really all that, just doesnt make people feel good about themselves

phys.7689:

stuff

his was a post about thieves not being capable of 10k on anything but the squishiest targets. mine proved that to be BS. it was not a debate over whether or not other classes could do big damage or if thieves are balanced. if we want to talk about big damage, there are videos of rangers hitting people for 18-20k with maul. if we want to talk about balanced, obviously this game is horribly balanced.

his was a post about stealth not being broken because players still take damage. mine was a post explaining how the current implementation of stealth is broken because of the low cooldown.

that doesnt make thieves OP, it just makes the current implementation of stealth bad for everyone in gw2.

You can see Warriors coming at you. Warrior attacks wildly telegraphed. Try again.

Thieves can expect no negative outcome in a fight. It’s either: you win or you retreat safely.

Eloquence.5207:

You can see Warriors coming at you. Warrior attacks wildly telegraphed. Try again.

Thieves can expect no negative outcome in a fight. It’s either: you win or you retreat safely.

So… you’re saying you’ve never seen a dead thief before?
(Every single class/person can disengage from a fight and ditch.)

Zero Day.2594:

Eloquence.5207:

You can see Warriors coming at you. Warrior attacks wildly telegraphed. Try again.

Thieves can expect no negative outcome in a fight. It’s either: you win or you retreat safely.

So… you’re saying you’ve never seen a dead thief before?
(Every single class/person can disengage from a fight and ditch.)

Eloquence.5207:

You can see Warriors coming at you. Warrior attacks wildly telegraphed. Try again.

Thieves can expect no negative outcome in a fight. It’s either: you win or you retreat safely.

Ditto.

VomitSpit.6843:

Astralporing.1957:

You do realize, that thieves can also plan their attacks and predict your movements, right? And in the predicting/planning game thieves have an advantage due to being able to see their enemies (while the enemies must guess everything).

Yes, but due to the thief’s low health pool and low toughness we are at a disadvantage when revealed. High risk/High reward.

Even then, like the OP has stated in the title. Stealth is not invincibility. Thieves can still get hurt while in stealth.

Every class could be at a low health pool and low toughness if they choose. Thieves only have low survivability if they spec that way. My thief can get decent survivability because I don’t spec glass cannon.

Swagger.1459:

Draknar.5748:

Yep, when I see a Thief invis near me, I swap to GS and swing around like crazy.

Draknar swung a sword. Draknar swung a sword again. Hey! Draknar swung it again. That’s great!

There ya go folks and future developers, top notch AAA stealth and counter stealth mechanics right here that will stand the test of time and be written in the history books for all future mmorpgs!

:)

I think it’s really the player’s fault if I kill them while they are invisible and not the developer’s fault. You’re invisible. If you decide to stand in my GS arc, that’s on you. I get what you’re trying to say, but I think your sarcasm was aimed at the wrong person.

Swagger.1459:

Draknar.5748:

Yep, when I see a Thief invis near me, I swap to GS and swing around like crazy.

Draknar swung a sword. Draknar swung a sword again. Hey! Draknar swung it again. That’s great!

There ya go folks and future developers, top notch AAA stealth and counter stealth mechanics right here that will stand the test of time and be written in the history books for all future mmorpgs!

:)

But… But… how does one know where to swing their sword… Or where to place/aim their AoE skills that can hit invisible units.

What is cooldown? What is target? Where is this instagib ability?

Zero, we get it, you hate, Hate, HATE the idea that the thief is broken, and feel a need to spam the forums with the “thief laughing at people” thread.

The mechanic itself is broken. There should be a risk/reward skew to any venture. With stealth working as it is right now, there is virtually zero risk, for high reward. This is bad design.

Were there things in game that actually countered stealth (torches having a default “revealed” causing radius comes to mind, though that leaves most classes out of luck) it would be a different story. As it stands, there is ONE skill on ONE class that can counter stealth. Otherwise, the response is the same – drop all your AoE at your feet, swing wildly and pray.

There is zero skill involved in playing a mug,cnd,backstab setup. It’s trolling your opponent.

Bottom line is that people don’t like to fight classes that get unlimited “do-overs”. Thieves don’t ever have to finish a fight that they have initiated unless they choose to. Anyone who plays a thief knows full well just how broken stealth is in this game. It’s a godkitten joke. It’s so broken that even terrible players can excel at playing thieves. That’s a problem in my opinion. The ultra low skill cap combined with the broken stealth mechanic simply isn’t acceptable.