Guild Wars 2

OMFG Egzius! I’m totally humbled by your initiative to get all the forum united against you. REALLY NICE TROLLING!

egzius.9031:

Where to start. The game is just too easy. Everyone can get achievement points in PVE, no one is left behind. You’ve done a right step in PVP. Let’s analyse the achievements: need to win, need to win, need to win. Whereas PVE: participate, help, work together. See a problem? You are not incentivizing the player enough to go PVE. Offer a great reward (such as a legendary backpack), but cut the supply of them tenfold (by making it only that winners get the achievements and put in tiers of semi good rewards), by making so that only the Meta achievers can get it, while others get something that’s less of a value, such as resonating sliver, since everyone likes those. Economy is better off (less rewards flood the market), players are better off, you are better off as you can be sure that players will gate other players as much as possible from getting the final shiny. I like where you are going with current events, where players have to steal from other players to get achievement points, but I believe you could still kick it up a notch by making so that instead of priory fighting inquest, priory (player side) could fight consortium (player side) and the losing sides loses that much from their achievement pool. This way, people have incentive to try, because now, people are just gonna be like meh, I’ll do it and I’ll get something everyone will get, whereas if it’s exclusive, more people will join to get the exclusive shiny. You could also throw a match-maker to ensure fair-play between the two sides, no stacking, etc.

I’ve bolded the parts I like the most in your opening post. They are masterpieces.

egzius.9031:

Because, when you don’t get all of the loot, you think you didn’t do something correctly, so you improve. When you get all the loot, you think next time I’ll do at most the same. That’s how regression starts.

Why go so deep? If you go so deep, then just go to pressing buttons, it’s just a game, all we do is press buttons, why even bother, why even live, we all die anyway? Don’t go too deep, it’s not worth.

egzius.9031:

I agree that they could have done better, that’s why I’m giving them suggestions on how to improve the competitive aspect of PVE.

Um… There is no competitive aspect of PvE.

Raids are all about 10 people cooperating to beat something in the environment. PvE is meant to be exactly what it is. Any improvements it needs have nothing to do with being competitive with other players.

What many people declare is “too easy” is not at all easy for everybody. Just because it may be easy for you does not mean it is easy for someone else. PvE has to be an environment for a wide spectrum of skill levels.

OP, I get your desire to expand those game features you enjoy into the PvE realm… It’s always admirable to see that kind of enthusiasm in the forums instead of pure game bashing. But, I also gotta pass on your idea.

I feel I get enough PvE competition trying to tag mobs in meta events before the all-zerk-gear players kill them in 1-3 hits. I know that I’d just avoid any intentional competitive features added to PvE (like I’ll be avoiding the new ley-line current event).

Sorry,

~EW

Ardid.7203:

OMFG Egzius! I’m totally humbled by your initiative to get all the forum united against you. REALLY NICE TROLLING!

egzius.9031:

Where to start. The game is just too easy. Everyone can get achievement points in PVE, no one is left behind. You’ve done a right step in PVP. Let’s analyse the achievements: need to win, need to win, need to win. Whereas PVE: participate, help, work together. See a problem? You are not incentivizing the player enough to go PVE. Offer a great reward (such as a legendary backpack), but cut the supply of them tenfold (by making it only that winners get the achievements and put in tiers of semi good rewards), by making so that only the Meta achievers can get it, while others get something that’s less of a value, such as resonating sliver, since everyone likes those. Economy is better off (less rewards flood the market), players are better off, you are better off as you can be sure that players will gate other players as much as possible from getting the final shiny. I like where you are going with current events, where players have to steal from other players to get achievement points, but I believe you could still kick it up a notch by making so that instead of priory fighting inquest, priory (player side) could fight consortium (player side) and the losing sides loses that much from their achievement pool. This way, people have incentive to try, because now, people are just gonna be like meh, I’ll do it and I’ll get something everyone will get, whereas if it’s exclusive, more people will join to get the exclusive shiny. You could also throw a match-maker to ensure fair-play between the two sides, no stacking, etc.

I’ve bolded the parts I like the most in your opening post. They are masterpieces.

Isn’t that what it is? If it is open for other players and they’re about to take it, but you snatch it before them, you simply steal from them. I can rephrase them if you feel that stealing is offensive, because as I think now, it is not technically stealing (it is from the leyline, since it is its property) but not from the players.

jheryn.8390:

egzius.9031:

I agree that they could have done better, that’s why I’m giving them suggestions on how to improve the competitive aspect of PVE.

Um… There is no competitive aspect of PvE.

Raids are all about 10 people cooperating to beat something in the environment. PvE is meant to be exactly what it is. Any improvements it needs have nothing to do with being competitive with other players.

What many people declare is “too easy” is not at all easy for everybody. Just because it may be easy for you does not mean it is easy for someone else. PvE has to be an environment for a wide spectrum of skill levels.

Guild puzzles are about cooperating. Raids are competitive. Take your fresh lvl 80 toon with your guild to a raid and we’ll see how cooperation will save you. If you want Raids to be cooperative, normalize all the stats inside and the levels, much like in PVP so that everyone has equal grounds (you would have to go further to normalize builds too in order to claim cooperation), then you can say it’s about coperation.

egzius.9031:

SkyShroud.2865:

Argh, OP idea of competitive is obviously different from the norm.

And that’s why all the salt. Sometimes changes are good. Old populations have to step down and let the young ones take over, it cannot always be old one’s game. But some are just willing to grip on with their last teeth and do whatever it takes to make the game as stale as possible and unchanged, when in reality, the majority of the population no longer wants it, it’s just the relics of the old ones.

Wow, just wow. You are trying to redefine the meaning of competitiveness, literally. It is like trying to change the meaning of eat to the same meaning as drink.

SkyShroud.2865:

egzius.9031:

SkyShroud.2865:

Argh, OP idea of competitive is obviously different from the norm.

And that’s why all the salt. Sometimes changes are good. Old populations have to step down and let the young ones take over, it cannot always be old one’s game. But some are just willing to grip on with their last teeth and do whatever it takes to make the game as stale as possible and unchanged, when in reality, the majority of the population no longer wants it, it’s just the relics of the old ones.

Wow, just wow. You are trying to redefine the meaning of competitiveness, literally. It is like trying to change the meaning of eat to the same meaning as drink.

In that statement, I did not once refer to competitiveness. I merely stated that the population is rigid and does not like sudden changes. Sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith and trust that others may have good ideas too.

egzius.9031:

DragonflyDusk.6582:

egzius.9031:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

egzius.9031:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

How in the world are raids competitive? They are people who are maximizing cooperation in a PvE environment. If they fail it’s because they haven’t reach max cooperation (as well as sufficient dps) Unless there are other raiders in that instance who they are competing with this makes no sense.

How? Have you ever been in a raid? There is a competitive baseline, which you have to meet to kill the boss, or you simply fail. Try bringing just 9 whatevers in there and let’s see how well you do. And the baseline is quite high, which we need more in open world PVE, not just raids.

Competitive baseline? Now you’re comparing competition to beating a timer?

Nope. It’s a cooperative baseline where if they don’t cooperate sufficiently as well as dps enough then the timer runs out.

Please, show me a video of 10 mesmers cooperating to beat a boss, I am sure your cooperation skills will bring the boss down before the inevitable timer kills you. Point is, cooperation alone will give you nothing, you need to be competitive too.

I don’t think you actually understand what it means to “cooperate”.

Competition would be if the mesmers all had to kill each other for the chest at the end.

I don’t think you understand what cooperation means. If an event asked you to do a synchronized dance as 10 people, by pressing same buttons at same time, that’s cooperation. Competitiveness is how well you fare against a baseline or current players, which is being tested in a raid. It is normal to be afraid of it, because if you are below the average skill level, you will be at a disadvantage, but for elite PVE players that is not a problem, which is the tier that should be rewarded for outperforming the lower skill levels. Adventures is one level of competitive PVE and I wish there were more of them. A platinum level, which is top 1% of players, not just a hard baseline, but a moving one, so that if you want to stay there, you have to keep improving.

No no, I really don’t think you understand what cooperation means.

egzius.9031:

Ardid.7203:

OMFG Egzius! I’m totally humbled by your initiative to get all the forum united against you. REALLY NICE TROLLING!

egzius.9031:

Where to start. The game is just too easy. Everyone can get achievement points in PVE, no one is left behind. You’ve done a right step in PVP. Let’s analyse the achievements: need to win, need to win, need to win. Whereas PVE: participate, help, work together. See a problem? You are not incentivizing the player enough to go PVE. Offer a great reward (such as a legendary backpack), but cut the supply of them tenfold (by making it only that winners get the achievements and put in tiers of semi good rewards), by making so that only the Meta achievers can get it, while others get something that’s less of a value, such as resonating sliver, since everyone likes those. Economy is better off (less rewards flood the market), players are better off, you are better off as you can be sure that players will gate other players as much as possible from getting the final shiny. I like where you are going with current events, where players have to steal from other players to get achievement points, but I believe you could still kick it up a notch by making so that instead of priory fighting inquest, priory (player side) could fight consortium (player side) and the losing sides loses that much from their achievement pool. This way, people have incentive to try, because now, people are just gonna be like meh, I’ll do it and I’ll get something everyone will get, whereas if it’s exclusive, more people will join to get the exclusive shiny. You could also throw a match-maker to ensure fair-play between the two sides, no stacking, etc.

I’ve bolded the parts I like the most in your opening post. They are masterpieces.

Isn’t that what it is? If it is open for other players and they’re about to take it, but you snatch it before them, you simply steal from them. I can rephrase them if you feel that stealing is offensive, because as I think now, it is not technically stealing (it is from the leyline, since it is its property) but not from the players.

I feel you, man. I mean you put as POSITIVE something most people participating in that event really, really, really HATE. All the while saying participation, helping and working toghether in PvE are PROBLEMS.

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/53813852.jpg

egzius.9031:

SkyShroud.2865:

egzius.9031:

SkyShroud.2865:

Argh, OP idea of competitive is obviously different from the norm.

And that’s why all the salt. Sometimes changes are good. Old populations have to step down and let the young ones take over, it cannot always be old one’s game. But some are just willing to grip on with their last teeth and do whatever it takes to make the game as stale as possible and unchanged, when in reality, the majority of the population no longer wants it, it’s just the relics of the old ones.

Wow, just wow. You are trying to redefine the meaning of competitiveness, literally. It is like trying to change the meaning of eat to the same meaning as drink.

In that statement, I did not once refer to competitiveness. I merely stated that the population is rigid and does not like sudden changes. Sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith and trust that others may have good ideas too.

What? Isn’t the whole topic about competitiveness? I don’t know if I am confused or you do not know what you are talking about.

egzius.9031:

SkyShroud.2865:

Argh, OP idea of competitive is obviously different from the norm.

And that’s why all the salt. Sometimes changes are good. Old populations have to step down and let the young ones take over, it cannot always be old one’s game. But some are just willing to grip on with their last teeth and do whatever it takes to make the game as stale as possible and unchanged, when in reality, the majority of the population no longer wants it, it’s just the relics of the old ones.

You can say the same thing about the older game’s PvE/PvE servers and this game’s new PvE cooperative servers. The old stepped down and the new took over.

As to the part of your idea where players on different megaservers compete, it’s not possible because of how the megaservers are set up.

Here’s where they talk about world PvP. Since PvE is specifically set up to be cooperative this quote has relevance to your suggestion that people compete in PvE also, as they would need to be separated into opposing groups who are no longer cooperating and friendly with each other.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/TemperHoof/072012/23486_Guild-Wars-2-Redefines-Open-World-PVP
“The overall design for Guild Wars 2 does not support fully open world PvP and it would take a prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible. World versus world is our version of open world PvP, and while it isn’t ‘true’ open world PvP for more PvP purists, it does contain many of the elements that make world PvP so exciting. Hopefully it will mostly satisfy people that want open world PvP.” — Mike Ferguson

egzius.9031:

Guild puzzles are about cooperating. Raids are competitive. Take your fresh lvl 80 toon with your guild to a raid and we’ll see how cooperation will save you. If you want Raids to be cooperative, normalize all the stats inside and the levels, much like in PVP so that everyone has equal grounds (you would have to go further to normalize builds too in order to claim cooperation), then you can say it’s about coperation.

You seem to be confusing “cooperative” with “equal” or “fair”.

Raids are not competitive, stop trying to bend the word to mean what you want it to mean. A fresh 80 can be carried by their group in a raid it happens all the time. Whenever a new player starts raiding and is told how the encounters work and what to do, where to stand what to look out for it happens, their performance doesn’t have to be as good as everyone elses because it’s cooperative.

In a raid you’re competing against the environment not against other players. What is most important is how well you’re cooperating, coordinating and communicating with the other players in your group and how well you can play your role in the group.

You’re not competing with the other people in your group and what other groups are doing has no impact on what you’re doing.

The premise of the entire game story is unification of the world to fight a common enemy/goal, how is PVE turning into open world pvp relevant? This isn’t WoW with horde vs alliance, I think you commented on the wrong forum for the wrong game.

Op, let me see if I understand your general concept. For example, there are 2 instances of frozen maw events. The first instance to complete the maw event gets the loot and the slower instance gets nothing.

This is an absolutely wonderful idea if you are actively trying to run people away from gw2.

I’m going to assume that this isn’t a troll and take the OP seriously.

Imagine a game where you could rep as the Priory or Consortium or some other faction. You could do dynamic events for your faction, possibly with other players competing with you for dropped ley line fragments or whatnot. If your faction does better than the others, then the map changes to reflect your success, and you get a higher tier of rewards. This idea could work with open world PvP or without it — I could see it go either way.

It’s a solid idea for an MMO, and I hope that game gets made — lots of people would enjoy that. However, it’s not GW2. In fact, it’s a radical departure from the GW2 manifesto, where you are supposed to be happy to see other people joining the event. Also, it would involve redesigning the game from the ground up.

Basically, you want a game that is not GW2.

Pifil.5193:

egzius.9031:

Guild puzzles are about cooperating. Raids are competitive. Take your fresh lvl 80 toon with your guild to a raid and we’ll see how cooperation will save you. If you want Raids to be cooperative, normalize all the stats inside and the levels, much like in PVP so that everyone has equal grounds (you would have to go further to normalize builds too in order to claim cooperation), then you can say it’s about coperation.

You seem to be confusing “cooperative” with “equal” or “fair”.

Raids are not competitive, stop trying to bend the word to mean what you want it to mean. A fresh 80 can be carried by their group in a raid it happens all the time. Whenever a new player starts raiding and is told how the encounters work and what to do, where to stand what to look out for it happens, their performance doesn’t have to be as good as everyone elses because it’s cooperative.

In a raid you’re competing against the environment not against other players. What is most important is how well you’re cooperating, coordinating and communicating with the other players in your group and how well you can play your role in the group.

You’re not competing with the other people in your group and what other groups are doing has no impact on what you’re doing.

The only sense that raids could be considered competitive would be if you are competing for a spot in a raid group. But once you have a group you are spot on; the only competition is the collective group vs the raid instance.

egzius.9031:

SkyShroud.2865:

Argh, OP idea of competitive is obviously different from the norm.

And that’s why all the salt. Sometimes changes are good. Old populations have to step down and let the young ones take over, it cannot always be old one’s game. But some are just willing to grip on with their last teeth and do whatever it takes to make the game as stale as possible and unchanged, when in reality, the majority of the population no longer wants it, it’s just the relics of the old ones.

This comment alone says all one needs to know about you.

OP keeps making the same point, without explaining how the PvE experience is better for those already enjoying PvE. I get that some people who find PvE lackluster today would appreciate the change, but that’s not a good enough reason to change the status quo.

There are other games that cater to this preference; GW2 does not have to be one of them.

Pve players do not approach pve with a competitive mindset, hence why attempts to make pve competitive generally fail or fall to the wayside in open world MMO’s.

Players play to explore, loot, farm, do story, tick off personal achievements. Extremely few care about being better than others in that environment. WvW and pvp caters for the competitive scene.

Look at the fuss caused by many about the difficulty of the ai in HoT and how jumping/platforming is too challeneging for many. Could you imagine the backlash against competitivity being introduced?

egzius.9031:

Guild puzzles are about cooperating. Raids are competitive. Take your fresh lvl 80 toon with your guild to a raid and we’ll see how cooperation will save you. If you want Raids to be cooperative, normalize all the stats inside and the levels, much like in PVP so that everyone has equal grounds (you would have to go further to normalize builds too in order to claim cooperation), then you can say it’s about coperation.

Who are you competing against? You are NOT competing against other players. You are ALL fighting NPC’s. You have to work together to accomplish that. You are in no way being competitive. How do you not get that? SMDH

Your logic does not resemble our earth logic.

PvE isn’t meant to be competitive. It being a fully co-operative mode was one of the fundamental selling points points of the game in the first place.

regardless of whether you were serious or not: the very point of PvE is that it is not competitive. And that it doesn’t leave people behind. The philosophy you’re espousing, OP, is pretty much just “why can’t I be better than other people” which is egotistical and very boring. We have PvP, WvW, and other video games for trying to prove who’s “the best”.

I guess OP is trolling. Or he (she?) is the developer responsible for the Ley Line Research Event. A total fail.

egzius.9031:

Whereas PVE: participate, help, work together. See a problem?

No, sorry

PyrateSilly.4710:

No kill stealing
No drop stealing
No node stealing
All share in the killing with everyone getting XP from it
No open world PvP

All things known BEFORE the game went live over 3 years ago and you want to complain about it now?

Exactly
The game is perfect like it is, thats why i am stick to it for so long (since Headstart )

Such a troll OP, words fail…. -.-

Go back to Eve Online. Or could you not cut it there so now you have to try and poison a good game with your play style?

Reading the entirety of his post, it seems to be a satire of how he feels about the “Current Events” requiring players to race against each other to get credit/achievement points.

Sartharina.3542:

Reading the entirety of his post, it seems to be a satire of how he feels about the “Current Events” requiring players to race against each other to get credit/achievement points.

I get the same feeling. If the OP is being satirical, then well done. If they are serious, then I could not disagree more. The toxic nature that prevails sPvP made me abandon that part of the game except for the daily rooms.

One of the biggest reasons I enjoy this game is because of the cooperative nature. Octovine is a perfect example. If it was a competition, that meta would always fail.

What PvE could use, atleast the Vanilla content, is abit upgrades on the mobs and events.
It’s super easy, where you need only to go full berserker and just smash 1 to win pretty much everything.

PvE mobs should atleast somewhat reflect player professions.

Adding PvP into PvE is a no. The current design doesn’t allow flexibility for such thing. If such thing were to be added, the whole game needs a full redesign to work.

Not sure I follow. So essentially you want Arenanet to change the game mode which literally means player versus enviroment (let me repeat that: Player Vs Enviroment) to have more player versus player components?

While I do understand the sentiment, there are dozens of games on the market which hit that swetspot(many of them are hardcore grinders from Korea with beautiful graphics).

So the question is: Where is Arenanets business incentive to follow the competition instead of staying with their niche game which has its following? The idea is basically financial nonsense, and that is not even getting into any gameplay or technical details.

If you want to no-life a game and define your selfworth via it, feel free to do so in any of the other MMOs on the market. Even GW2 allows for such glamour only in form of cosmetics. Meanwhile understand that the age demografik which plays MMOs (and more importantly has the financial ability to pay for microtransactions especially) has aged considerably over the last few years.

FrostSpectre.4198:

What PvE could use, atleast the Vanilla content, is abit upgrades on the mobs and events.
It’s super easy, where you need only to go full berserker and just smash 1 to win pretty much everything.

PvE mobs should atleast somewhat reflect player professions.

Adding PvP into PvE is a no. The current design doesn’t allow flexibility for such thing. If such thing were to be added, the whole game needs a full redesign to work.

Go do the Nebo Terrace event chain. I’ve seen that event fail far more than any other. I’ve had easier times with world bosses.

I am hoping this was a sarcastic troll of the latest mistakenly crafted events because the big thing that makes gw2 a better mmo than all the rest is because of the nature that all contributers get a reward as appropriate to their contributions. We all get resource nodes instead of having to fight over them or look for ones not being routinely farmed by bots.
I have always loathed open-world pvp servers in other mmos and sure as hell never want to see them here. The community is a lot better in part because there is no one filling our chat logs with salty words of loss when we just want to roam around in pve to relax after a long day at work/school.

egzius.9031:

We already have competitive PVE, it’s raids.

And if the game wants to cater to the market it’s cultivated, it will stay that way. The fact is that GW2 can’t compete with other games that offer the kind of competitive PVE you talk about. It’s business model is SOUND and is based completely on the non-competitive PVE you seek to tear down.

egzius.9031:

SkyShroud.2865:

Argh, OP idea of competitive is obviously different from the norm.

And that’s why all the salt. Sometimes changes are good. Old populations have to step down and let the young ones take over, it cannot always be old one’s game. But some are just willing to grip on with their last teeth and do whatever it takes to make the game as stale as possible and unchanged, when in reality, the majority of the population no longer wants it, it’s just the relics of the old ones.

And many times change is bad. Plan awful in fact… but the proponents of “Change” generally don’t want to remember those.

Changing an established MMO like GW2 this late by replacing cooperative gameplay design with competitive gameplay design in the PvE areas would be as big a mistake or bigger than the blunders other MMO Dev Teams have made that killed their MMOs (reference the drastic changes made to LotRO for instance as one example of how to kill an established MMO). Players that favor cooperative gameplay play GW2 in many cases specifically for that cooperative gameplay design. A change like this is not in the best interests of Anet or NCsoft, nor the current Players of GW2. It would alienate a sizable portion of Anet’s current customer base.

I would counter your suggestion with my suggestion to take your calls for change to one of the up and coming new MMOs that are still in development, a game not yet released that your suggestion can benefit. That is the best place for change to happen, not by changing what already is. Change, alter, modify what is yet to be, so that when it launches it can feed the need of those who desire what you do. That is productive and positive change in contrast to the changes you propose here for GW2 which would only be seen by the current Players that favor PvE as a truly negative and unproductive change.

No! I love PVE the way it is now!! No changing it to a pvp / wvw setting!!

Pompeia.5483:

I am hoping this was a sarcastic troll of the latest mistakenly crafted events because the big thing that makes gw2 a better mmo than all the rest is because of the nature that all contributers get a reward as appropriate to their contributions. We all get resource nodes instead of having to fight over them or look for ones not being routinely farmed by bots.
I have always loathed open-world pvp servers in other mmos and sure as hell never want to see them here. The community is a lot better in part because there is no one filling our chat logs with salty words of loss when we just want to roam around in pve to relax after a long day at work/school.

This!!! ^

There is a reason why one is called “Player versus Environment” and the other “Player versus Player” and “World versus World”.

egzius.9031:

SkyShroud.2865:

Argh, OP idea of competitive is obviously different from the norm.

And that’s why all the salt. Sometimes changes are good. Old populations have to step down and let the young ones take over, it cannot always be old one’s game. But some are just willing to grip on with their last teeth and do whatever it takes to make the game as stale as possible and unchanged, when in reality, the majority of the population no longer wants it, it’s just the relics of the old ones.

May I ask what you would consider an “old population” in regards to Guild Wars 2? I’m greatly curious. Is it an age thing? Or based upon the games that the player began with before transitioning to GW2? But regardless of your answer, this mindset is just plain toxic and elitist. It suggests that there is a group of people who are no longer allowed to play certain games. It’s like telling someone who dislikes the path that the Halo franchise is going, who loved the original trilogy of games, that because of that they should move on from Halo entirely and never bother with it.

And look at the storm unleashed with competitiveness in PvE, the trolls that come out to make it worse and a dev response about fixing it. Not ever going happen OP so move on.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Ley-Line-Research-Achievements/first

Actually… sitting here, I understand what the OP is getting at.
However, don’t for a second think I agree with it or the logic or the premise.
And, after thinking about it, the game does already have the element that he is talking about. Although, albeit, for a very short amount of time.
Wintersday and ringing of the bells.
Seems to me it is a pve environment, yet we are competing against each other, just as the OP suggests.
As far as I am concerned, that should be the end of it, let it be the once a year event, that lasts for a short while.
Don’t mess with PvE.

The only competition you’ll ever find in the cooperative modes of the game are things like the Adventure leaderboards, which no one really cares bout, because PvE is about cooperation, not competition.

From today’s patch notes:

The “Defeat the Inquest to prevent them from capturing the Ley-Energy Coalescence” event will now create player-specific versions of the ley-energy items to reduce competition.

I guess Anet agrees with the majority of people in this thread when it comes to competition in PvE.

egzius.9031:

Ever been to Octovine? AFKs on the sides of Octovine. Think if 2 Octovines were happening at same time, but only one got rewards, would you still have AFKers risking all they would get? I am just trying to remove all the toxicity from PVE and this is the most efficient way of doing it: by improving the community, making it more competitive.

I can tell you exactly what that would do to the Tarir meta. As soon as one server started pulling ahead, the other would simply stop trying. Those players would then start trying to flood into a new winning server to get rewarded, or just give up entirely. Then all the players in the winning server can just stop trying, because they no longer have anyone competing against them. When the would-be AFKers see that their victory is set, they’ll go right back to AFKing.

If you want to add some meaningful reward or accomplishment to PVE, the way to do that is through content that is actually challenging. This is something we do have already, just in small amounts. But it’s not a concept that works well in open-world pve. You can’t set a high player skill requirement in a situation where you have no control over who you are playing with. It doesn’t force people to get better at the game, it demoralizes everyone to the point where they don’t want to even attempt to play the content.

Two great examples of this we’ve seen already are the original state of the Chak Gerent event and the Marionette boss achievements from season 1. Both put players in a situation where another group of players, at a different location, could easily ruin your chances of being rewarded and getting an achievement. The result is both casual and hardcore players not enjoying the content. The more casual players, or even just those with little experience with the specific event, get yelled at and berated by elititsts. Meanwhile, the hardcore players are frustrated by the fact that despite being at their best, they still fail because someone else didn’t dodge an attack or do some specific action.

The “best” end result from such situations is when the majority of players just start ignoring that content, leaving only the hardcore players and elitists. Then you have a small portion of the playerbase attempting content made for large groups, while the majority of players are left disappointed with a major part of the game. This is why challenging content is better off being left to solo or small group play. Give challenging content to the players that want it, but leave the majority of the game being designed for the majority of the players.

egzius.9031:

SkyShroud.2865:

egzius.9031:

SkyShroud.2865:

Argh, OP idea of competitive is obviously different from the norm.

And that’s why all the salt. Sometimes changes are good. Old populations have to step down and let the young ones take over, it cannot always be old one’s game. But some are just willing to grip on with their last teeth and do whatever it takes to make the game as stale as possible and unchanged, when in reality, the majority of the population no longer wants it, it’s just the relics of the old ones.

Wow, just wow. You are trying to redefine the meaning of competitiveness, literally. It is like trying to change the meaning of eat to the same meaning as drink.

In that statement, I did not once refer to competitiveness. I merely stated that the population is rigid and does not like sudden changes. Sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith and trust that others may have good ideas too.

In other words, the population likes the way it is now and isn’t interested in the same thing you are. That doesn’t make either of us right, it just means that we have different opinions about how the game should be.

For me personally, one of the main reasons I am drawn ro this game is because it’s cooperative. It’s the ultimate multiplayer experience – you join with a bunch of other players to all accomplish the same goal. I’ve played MMOs for 17 years now, including being in competitive high end raiding guilds. But once you get to the point where you don’t need to “beat other players” in order to be happy with your life, you can focus on enjoying the game and having fun without worrying about what others are doing.

There are plenty of other MMOs that are competitive. I’d rather keep one of the few cooperative ones the way it is, and let the people who are attracted to the style you described find a different game that better fits what they want.

egzius.9031:

Where to start. The game is just too easy. Everyone can get achievement points in PVE, no one is left behind. You’ve done a right step in PVP. Let’s analyse the achievements: need to win, need to win, need to win. Whereas PVE: participate, help, work together. See a problem? You are not incentivizing the player enough to go PVE. Offer a great reward (such as a legendary backpack), but cut the supply of them tenfold (by making it only that winners get the achievements and put in tiers of semi good rewards), by making so that only the Meta achievers can get it, while others get something that’s less of a value, such as resonating sliver, since everyone likes those. Economy is better off (less rewards flood the market), players are better off, you are better off as you can be sure that players will gate other players as much as possible from getting the final shiny. I like where you are going with current events, where players have to steal from other players to get achievement points, but I believe you could still kick it up a notch by making so that instead of priory fighting inquest, priory (player side) could fight consortium (player side) and the losing sides loses that much from their achievement pool. This way, people have incentive to try, because now, people are just gonna be like meh, I’ll do it and I’ll get something everyone will get, whereas if it’s exclusive, more people will join to get the exclusive shiny. You could also throw a match-maker to ensure fair-play between the two sides, no stacking, etc.

I dont think you know the point of a what an mmorpg is, this game has pve and pvp there is simply no reason to turn it into an entire competitive focus.

egzius.9031:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

egzius.9031:

No no no, no PVP. PVE content, but where players fight other players in PVE manner. Such as racing to get crystals, like we have now, possibly doing events in parallel to see who is faster and better, you know, standard stuff, but make a winner and a loser side and reward the winner and punish the losers. Why should everyone get all the rewards? Make them at least slightly exclusive.

this post feels rather /s for me.. But still, there are weird people everywhere…Eve wouldnt exist otherwise..

Why shouldn’t everyone get all the rewards? How does your method improve the PvE game mode for the people who currently play PvE?

Because, when you don’t get all of the loot, you think you didn’t do something correctly, so you improve. When you get all the loot, you think next time I’ll do at most the same. That’s how regression starts.

But why should i have to improve? I play the game to relax and have fun, not to train something or to be the best.

Why is your idea of the game the one that is right when it harms so many more people while our idea of games is better because it harms less because almost everyone can get what they want, be happy and the one who like more have the options..

It is a game. Not the olympics. and especially his game is-very clearly-been founded on the base Idea that every user deserves to be entertained.

So if either
a)100 people can be entertained and 10% of those may have to work harder to give themselves challenges for their entertainment(isnt that what you want anyways?)
or
b) 10 people can be entertained(because even some winners dont really care for being “the bestes evar” while 50 suffer , why should anyone choose the option to take happiness and fun away from other people just because a small number of people can now feel better as a direct result of the unhappiness of others..

so.. I dont really get why you think people have to be the best or even be better because your idea of what constitutes a proper game are not the only one and not the only valid one. You are in a game that wants to be accessible. This the devs stated from the start.
Its pretty egoistical to expect them now to basically harm the fun of other people to satisfy your needs over almost everyone else. (and you even have access to a challenge -> PVP, soloing group content etc) , so it seems its not nly about bragging rights, innit?

I want to ask what makes OP think that PvE needs to be competitive at all? I always thought about GW PvE as a cooperative effort ever since GW1.

Vayne.8563:

I’m relatively sure there are more PvEer’s in this game than PvPer’s.

And if they made the changes you want, there wouldn’t be more people playing PvE. There’d be far less people playing PvE. That’s my opinion, anyway.

These games don’t get dumbed down because their player base goes down. They get dumbed down because their player base goes up…or they wouldn’t do it.

You may thing everyone wants the same things you want, but I’m relatively certain that’s not the case.

Well stated sir!! 100% agree

egzius.9031:

Where to start. The game is just too easy. Everyone can get achievement points in PVE, no one is left behind. You’ve done a right step in PVP. Let’s analyse the achievements: need to win, need to win, need to win. Whereas PVE: participate, help, work together. See a problem? You are not incentivizing the player enough to go PVE. Offer a great reward (such as a legendary backpack), but cut the supply of them tenfold (by making it only that winners get the achievements and put in tiers of semi good rewards), by making so that only the Meta achievers can get it, while others get something that’s less of a value, such as resonating sliver, since everyone likes those. Economy is better off (less rewards flood the market), players are better off, you are better off as you can be sure that players will gate other players as much as possible from getting the final shiny. I like where you are going with current events, where players have to steal from other players to get achievement points, but I believe you could still kick it up a notch by making so that instead of priory fighting inquest, priory (player side) could fight consortium (player side) and the losing sides loses that much from their achievement pool. This way, people have incentive to try, because now, people are just gonna be like meh, I’ll do it and I’ll get something everyone will get, whereas if it’s exclusive, more people will join to get the exclusive shiny. You could also throw a match-maker to ensure fair-play between the two sides, no stacking, etc.

You like what you like. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that the entire game should cater to your desires. There are other players here besides yourself and they actually like the non-competitive nature of PvE.

It also happens to be a defining feature of GW2. They specifically designed PvE to be this way and it clearly appeals to their player base.