Guild Wars 2

Just a flesh wound.3589:

… have the metrics in place to see accounts that grind in an excessive, abnormal manner …

Thats exactly what I wrote originally. I’m sure anet does monitor and has these metrics (if you look up some anets devs, you see that most of them are highly skilled experts in their fields) and I’m sure that based on these metrics anet did the restrictions. They obviously saw like I earlier stated that f2p abuse has there an issue after these people upgrade. Thats why they implemented the keyruns restrictions on all accs instead only f2p. It’s the logical way to fix this issue.
(But it’s not a good way for the normal legit player/keyrunner, because these now get more and more limitations only because f2p)

Bomber.3872:

They obviously saw like I earlier stated that f2p abuse has there an issue after these people upgrade. Thats why they implemented the keyruns restrictions on all accs instead only f2p. It’s the logical way to fix this issue.
(But it’s not a good way for the normal legit player/keyrunner, because these now get more and more limitations only because f2p)

Your logic is completely flawed. This has got nothing to do f2p.

Before f2p was introduced:

1. I buy six accounts
2. I do some excessive key farming on these six accounts
3. I flood the TP with the items I get

After f2p was introduced:

1. I do some excessive key farming on six accounts
2. I buy these six accounts
3. I flood the TP with the items I get

All that f2p did was swap steps 1 and 2. There is literally absolutely no way to farm keys more efficiently by having upgraded f2p accounts.

Key farming actually had a bigger influence before f2p was introduced, because at the beginning of this year you were able to get a fully functional GW2 account for only 10$. You could flood the economy with your key farming for a fraction of the price that a f2p key farmer has to pay to make profits.

Bomber.3872:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

… have the metrics in place to see accounts that grind in an excessive, abnormal manner …

Thats exactly what I wrote originally. I’m sure anet does monitor and has these metrics (if you look up some anets devs, you see that most of them are highly skilled experts in their fields) and I’m sure that based on these metrics anet did the restrictions. They obviously saw like I earlier stated that f2p abuse has there an issue after these people upgrade. Thats why they implemented the keyruns restrictions on all accs instead only f2p. It’s the logical way to fix this issue.
(But it’s not a good way for the normal legit player/keyrunner, because these now get more and more limitations only because f2p)

You’re still not making any sense. If there was a problem with f2p doing the story line for keys, then all they had to do was remove the keys with the f2p. You don’t punish the whole player base for a problem in a subset for it. Not when that problem is easily solved.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Bomber.3872:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

… have the metrics in place to see accounts that grind in an excessive, abnormal manner …

Thats exactly what I wrote originally. I’m sure anet does monitor and has these metrics (if you look up some anets devs, you see that most of them are highly skilled experts in their fields) and I’m sure that based on these metrics anet did the restrictions. They obviously saw like I earlier stated that f2p abuse has there an issue after these people upgrade. Thats why they implemented the keyruns restrictions on all accs instead only f2p. It’s the logical way to fix this issue.
(But it’s not a good way for the normal legit player/keyrunner, because these now get more and more limitations only because f2p)

You’re still not making any sense. If there was a problem with f2p doing the story line for keys, then all they had to do was remove the keys with the f2p. You don’t punish the whole player base for a problem in a subset for it. Not when that problem is easily solved.

Summary: Not always fits the bogeyman f2p player

I just wanted to point out that you have to spend 31€88 average for one black lion 1 ticket skin. (buy 25 + 5 keys) or 159€4 average for a 5 ticket skin.

>There is a point where if you just buy gw2 core game at 15 € on the net and farm keys with 9 alts you actualy are more effective than buying keys for black lion keys by 100% after one year if you concider the 1 ticket skin worth 30€.

BLK drop rates :https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest/Drop_rate

Fair

Abimes.9726:

I just wanted to point out that you have to spend 31€88 average for one black lion 1 ticket skin. (buy 25 + 5 keys) or 159€4 average for a 5 ticket skin.

>There is a point where if you just buy gw2 core game at 15 € on the net and farm keys with 9 alts you actualy are more effective than buying keys for black lion keys by 100% after one year if you concider the 1 ticket skin worth 30€.

BLK drop rates :https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest/Drop_rate

Fair

schhhhhh soon anet will prohibit players to own more than one acc.

Dont give them notions!

Right I’ll eddit my message with [/stealth]so they can’t see it thanks for the tip. =P

I had more precursor drops than key drops ;p

This is another dumb idea in a series of dumb ideas. People who key farm(ed) performed a valuable service for the game world.

From the player’s point of view: They kept the BL weapon skin prices in check, they kept the permanent kit prices in check, they kept the gold to gem ratio in check. They made some low-level cooking materials more desirable.

From Arenanet’s point of view: Keyfarmers spent time playing the game, bought some cooking materials or used tomes of knowledge (that could have been turned into spirit shards>MF use>gold). Sure, they did not buy 125 gems to get a key, but they spent 20-30 minutes playing a game that has severe issues with rewards and “endgame” content.

Now gem prices will rise even further (when bought with gold). Ok that’s in some way super from Arenanet’s point of view. But will this make me buy gems with money to spend it on keys? Of course not. I’ll just think more about what i actually want to buy and buy that instead.

Bottom line is, this change ruined a working circulation without providing Arenanet any benefits. Whoever bought keys with real money will keep buying it, whoever spent time key farming before, still won’t buy keys with real money.

AzureSky.3175:

Before f2p was introduced:

1. I buy six accounts
2. I do some excessive key farming on these six accounts
3. I flood the TP with the items I get

After f2p was introduced:

1. I do some excessive key farming on six accounts
2. I buy these six accounts
3. I flood the TP with the items I get

All that f2p did was swap steps 1 and 2.

So far, yes. But your conclusion makes no sense. Because these steps were flipped it removed the risk. It removed the risk to loose a 40$ account with no gain. F2p changed that so you have no risk (free accs) until you have enough to again and only at that point to invest $ for gain.

Exactly this has been solved with tuesdays patch.

Bomber.3872:

AzureSky.3175:

Before f2p was introduced:

1. I buy six accounts
2. I do some excessive key farming on these six accounts
3. I flood the TP with the items I get

After f2p was introduced:

1. I do some excessive key farming on six accounts
2. I buy these six accounts
3. I flood the TP with the items I get

All that f2p did was swap steps 1 and 2.

So far, yes. But your conclusion makes no sense. Because these steps were flipped it removed the risk. It removed the risk to loose a 40$ account with no gain. F2p changed that so you have no risk (free accs) until you have enough to again and only at that point to invest $ for gain.

Exactly this has been solved with tuesdays patch.

40$ = 10$ and most 0$ cause bought with stolen credit cards

Zaron.1987:

Bomber.3872:

AzureSky.3175:

Before f2p was introduced:

1. I buy six accounts
2. I do some excessive key farming on these six accounts
3. I flood the TP with the items I get

After f2p was introduced:

1. I do some excessive key farming on six accounts
2. I buy these six accounts
3. I flood the TP with the items I get

All that f2p did was swap steps 1 and 2.

So far, yes. But your conclusion makes no sense. Because these steps were flipped it removed the risk. It removed the risk to loose a 40$ account with no gain. F2p changed that so you have no risk (free accs) until you have enough to again and only at that point to invest $ for gain.

Exactly this has been solved with tuesdays patch.

40$ = 10$ and most 0$ cause bought with stolen credit cards

I thought there is currently only gw2 HoT for 40$ left to buy (anywhere)?

Else that really does make more sense.

Solandri.9640:

mrstealth.6701:

As far as the BL weapon skins are concerned, it’s just a system to sell weapon skins at $30/150 each. The 33% drop rate on scraps doesn’t make it much of a lottery that you can win. It’s a fairly high chance, and all it does is set the average number of keys you’ll have to buy in order to get a weapon.

You’re only getting 33%? I’ve farmed/found about a dozen keys over the last month. Nearly every one has given me a scrap. And one of the ones which didn’t give me a scrap gave me two tickets. The chest drops guildmates have linked in guild chat have almost always included a scrap too.

The scraps used to be a lot rarer (I saved up 40 keys last year and opened them all at once – only got a dozen scraps). But right now they seem to be very close to a guaranteed drop. The tickets seem to be a lot more common too, as I’ve gotten 3 from the dozen recent keys. Several guildies linking their chest drops have gotten tickets as well. I only got one ticket the previous year from probably 150 chests.

The 33% (average .33 key per chest) figure is from the chest drop rate data on wiki. I thought it was more like 20-25%, which is what older data stated, and about what I’ve always seen from it. I was fairly surprised to find that the average was so high.

Bomber.3872:

So far, yes. But your conclusion makes no sense. Because these steps were flipped it removed the risk. It removed the risk to loose a 40$ account with no gain. F2p changed that so you have no risk (free accs) until you have enough to again and only at that point to invest $ for gain.

Exactly this has been solved with tuesdays patch.

Okay, so if I understand you correctly, then this is what you mean:

before f2p: I buy an account for $$$; I let my farm bot collect 100 keys; if I get banned in the process → I’ll have lost $$$ → risky
after f2p: I get a free account; I let my farm bot collect 100 keys; if I get banned in the process → I haven’t lost anything → no risk

This actually makes sense. I agree with you on that, f2p removes the risk.

Still, don’t you think that the 10$ GW2 accounts were far, far more attractive for such attempts? You have no risk on f2p, but at the cost of paying 500% of the price you’d have had to pay back then.
Of course, these are just assumptions, but I think that the 10$ accounts were far more attractive for key farming bots than an f2p accounts is right now, and if someone really wanted to do something like this on a grand scale, it would already have happened.

Bomber.3872:

Behellagh.1468:

I don’t think this has anything to do with P4F. This falls into the same category of altering events to encourage players to do “other” things and to disrupt emergent game play modes that the devs frown upon. They were able to contain P4F accounts without altering things for paid players, they could have done the same in the PS.

No. Because malicious hardcore grind keyfarm f2p was possible for the bad people. Bad people did this in f2p, because there is no risk.
As soon as bad f2p people gain hundrets or thousands of keys/tickets without risk they can upgrade their f2p account and $$$$$.
Thats the problem. Thats why we all had to get this restrictions. Thats why its only f2p’s fault.

PS: If this gets deleted again then I serioustly have no idea how to explain it to someone. I wonder why it seems to be not allowed to explain the real reason why we all got these restrictions.

Even if people were using free accounts and later upgrading them to offload the items, putting this new restriction only on free accounts would still have prevented it. They would them have to buy an account before they could even start farming, which massively increases their risk and overhead. There is no reason to have restricted paid accounts because of F2P abuse.

Any leftover F2P accounts that were waiting to be upgraded could easily be flagged and banned. Anet can easily track which F2P accounts are amassing keys.

The only difference/advantage free accounts had was being able to earn the keys with no risk of lost money if the account was banned. If this type of abuse was the reason for changing the key rewards, Anet would have simply removed the entire key reward for F2P accounts or put even heavier restrictions on only those accounts.

The most laughable patch notes is this “Increased the drop rate of Black Lion Chests and Black Lion Chest Keys throughout the world.”. What is it now? 0,00000000002% instead of 0,00000000001%?

I do feel bad for Anet’s art team in this mess. Because they’re going to put their talents (and they really do have some awesome artists) into making weapons that no one will ever see outside of the preview window. And all the ones they’ve designed to date will fall into the obscurity of obscenely priced reminders of what used to be.

mrstealth.6701:

I do feel bad for Anet’s art team in this mess. Because they’re going to put their talents (and they really do have some awesome artists) into making weapons that no one will ever see outside of the preview window. And all the ones they’ve designed to date will fall into the obscurity of obscenely priced reminders of what used to be.

Even if their prices skyrocket, absolutely NO GemStore weapons have prestige. Such a thing can only exist in an online world if either: a) it comes as a reward for being a long time player (veteran), b) it comes as a reward from a very difficult content (not to be confused to heavy farmed content).

So, yeah, no matter how pwetty they are, they’ll fall into obscurity.

Hello Devs don’t forget US !

That said i’d like to know what the drop rate will be .

[from some one who have bought a slot to start key farming 1 weak before this patch hits and who can not be refunded … (And lets remeber us , they said it was fine with the personal story patch . I call that stealing people’s money). ]

AzureSky.3175:

10$ accounts

Exactly. And yes I think the $10 sales in January had an even worse influence on it until now. I just didn’t even mention the $10 accs, because I thought that at least since HoT preorder that only the new $40 Version are buyable.

If it’s still possible to buy +-$10 accs, then I probably was totally wrong, because in that case the f2p accs surely wouldn’t have a big different influence.

Bomber.3872:

AzureSky.3175:

10$ accounts

Exactly. And yes I think the $10 sales in January had an even worse influence on it until now. I just didn’t even mention the $10 accs, because I thought that at least since HoT preorder that only the new $40 Version are buyable.

If it’s still possible to buy +-$10 accs, then I probably was totally wrong, because in that case the f2p accs surely wouldn’t have a big different influence.

You still haven’t explained why the devs didn’t simply turn off the keys from the personal story for the f2p accounts if it was a problem.

The other day after a series of events I was going through my inventory to sort out the junk from what I could sell from the REALLY good stuff.

Among my finds? A chest and a key.

kolompi.1287:

This is another dumb idea in a series of dumb ideas. People who key farm(ed) performed a valuable service for the game world.

From the player’s point of view: They kept the BL weapon skin prices in check, they kept the permanent kit prices in check, they kept the gold to gem ratio in check. They made some low-level cooking materials more desirable.

From Arenanet’s point of view: Keyfarmers spent time playing the game, bought some cooking materials or used tomes of knowledge (that could have been turned into spirit shards>MF use>gold). Sure, they did not buy 125 gems to get a key, but they spent 20-30 minutes playing a game that has severe issues with rewards and “endgame” content.

Now gem prices will rise even further (when bought with gold). Ok that’s in some way super from Arenanet’s point of view. But will this make me buy gems with money to spend it on keys? Of course not. I’ll just think more about what i actually want to buy and buy that instead.

Bottom line is, this change ruined a working circulation without providing Arenanet any benefits. Whoever bought keys with real money will keep buying it, whoever spent time key farming before, still won’t buy keys with real money.

I think what they are banking on is people will buy more keys because the stuff that drops is now ‘worth more’ due to less supply from key farmers. Black lion skins right now might be 80-100g at release making scraps worth 8-10g but if the key farmers really consisted of a large supply, and the skin price for example doubles then each scrap is suddenly worth 16-20g.

Permanent Contracts could see the same rise, tempting players to gamble on keys for that elusive contract. We saw how this worked with the hairstyle contract before when it was first added. Buy keys for a chance of 2000g contract!

fishball.7204:

I think what they are banking on is people will buy more keys because the stuff that drops is now ‘worth more’ due to less supply from key farmers. Black lion skins right now might be 80-100g at release making scraps worth 8-10g but if the key farmers really consisted of a large supply, and the skin price for example doubles then each scrap is suddenly worth 16-20g.

They appear to be banking on new players coming in from F2P or returning players for HoT, in that they will buy gems to convert due to high conversion rates and high prices on items. BLC and key farmers were just collateral damage, I don’t think they actually want people to use BLC. Makes a good gold sink though.

Does anyone have any good data on the increase in drops? I’ve only been able to play a few hours since the Tuesday update, and I’ve already noticed a significant increase in chest drops (3 in about 3 hours of play), but no keys.

Prior to the Tuesday update, I’d logged about 4300 hours of play, and in that span I had drops of about 450 black lion chests and 5 black lion keys off random mobs. Those ~4300 hours are primarily PvE (world bosses, guild missions, map completion, JPs, LS, PS, etc), and a lesser degree of WvW/EotM or PvP. Given my style of play, I’ve been getting approximately 1 chest drop per 10 hours of game play, and 1 key drop per 1000 hours of game play. Having read others info about prior drop rates, my number of chests and keys seem to be roughly in line with what others have experienced.

While my data since Tuesday is limited (3 chests in about 3 hours), it does seem to lend credence that ANet has significantly boosted the drop rate of chests. Others in my guild have also reported a higher drop rate, some also mentioning that it seemed to be roughly 1 chest per hour of PvE game play since the update. If so, this may may indicate that they’ve boosted chest drops by roughly a 10x factor.

Assuming that the increase is roughly a 10x factor in chest drops, and ANet boosted key drops by a similar factor, we might start seeing about 1 key per 100 hours of game play. Unfortunately, that is still way too low to make much of a difference. A player that averages 20 hours per week might get about 1 key per month if they’re lucky. I seriously doubt this is going to make up for the loss in key/skin generation that was being supplied by keyfarming.

While I applaud ANet for boosting keys as drops (assuming they actually have), there was really no need to boost chest drops at all. The rate that we were finding them was already disproportionately too high compared to the rate at which keys could be obtained via the primary method of keyfarming, along with the miniscule numbers of keys from drops, daily rewards, map completes, etc. Even without any boosts in chest drop rates, removing the primary method for obtaining keys will cause the imbalance of chests vs. keys to increase significantly. Simply boosting key drops by a similar factor as chest drops doesn’t resolve this issue. They really shouldn’t have increased chest drops at all. With the new rate, we’ll likely be swimming in chests, and the TP will eventually be chock full of chests listed at minimum 2c listings. (FYI, chests have previously hit the 2c price point before due the chest/key imbalance.) Meanwhile, they need to boost the rate of obtaining keys to be significantly higher. Updates to drop rates may help, but they should strongly consider increasing the rate of keys from the daily reward chest of black lion goods, as well as from (non-city) map completions (used to be about 30% to 50%, now seems to be less than 5%).

fishball.7204:

I think what they are banking on is people will buy more keys because the stuff that drops is now ‘worth more’ due to less supply from key farmers. Black lion skins right now might be 80-100g at release making scraps worth 8-10g but if the key farmers really consisted of a large supply, and the skin price for example doubles then each scrap is suddenly worth 16-20g.

Permanent Contracts could see the same rise, tempting players to gamble on keys for that elusive contract. We saw how this worked with the hairstyle contract before when it was first added. Buy keys for a chance of 2000g contract!

I think one reason why keys have historically bad value is because keyrunning created a lot of the supply of ticket-weapons. It would be silly if the keyrunning nerf got those players to suddenly buy keys; they were running to get around the bad value, getting worse because of greater demand for gems pushing the price up. Instead, skin prices will likely rise to better reflect the value of keys because the supply is going to dip.

Good news: the level 40 key is unrestricted.

I just hope that keys rewarded for mapping aren’t accidently effected too and fixed in 6 months.

Bob F It.5701:

Good news: the level 40 key is unrestricted.

Why is that a surprise? It was obvious in the patch notes that it would only affect the key reward in the Level 10 story or do people construe “early” meaning anything under level 80?

Behellagh.1468:

Astralporing.1957:

Too bad they didn’t think that it might be because it’s the chests that are a problem.

That’s only because players collectively ignore the fact that the “junk” in chests is actually what chests were designed to deliver.

Wait, what? If the players collectively ignored the fact that chests give out mostly junk, then they would be buying keys, and the whole problem wouldn’t exist. It’s because they know the chests’ worth that key sales drop.

Astralporing.1957:

Behellagh.1468:

Astralporing.1957:

Too bad they didn’t think that it might be because it’s the chests that are a problem.

That’s only because players collectively ignore the fact that the “junk” in chests is actually what chests were designed to deliver.

Wait, what? If the players collectively ignored the fact that chests give out mostly junk, then they would be buying keys, and the whole problem wouldn’t exist. It’s because they know the chests’ worth that key sales drop.

I think he was trying to say that we should accept the junk. Which we absolutely should not. Anet refuses to make keys worthwhile to buy and would rather spite us out of legitimate rewards than do so.

If only we could have 1 scrap every chest for sure at least that would be worth buying and doing that chest every weak.

I just want Anet to talk to use like living breathing intelligent human beings.

We may not like the reasons why they made this change but at the very least it would give more understanding on some level.

A lot of us have been loyal customers for such a long time. Treat us with a bit of respect here and let’s talk about this sudden out of no where change. Maybe you didn’t realize how this would impact your community but it did. So bite the bullet and let’s hear your thoughts and plans already. Thank you!

Dinks.2478:

Astralporing.1957:

Behellagh.1468:

Astralporing.1957:

Too bad they didn’t think that it might be because it’s the chests that are a problem.

That’s only because players collectively ignore the fact that the “junk” in chests is actually what chests were designed to deliver.

Wait, what? If the players collectively ignored the fact that chests give out mostly junk, then they would be buying keys, and the whole problem wouldn’t exist. It’s because they know the chests’ worth that key sales drop.

I think he was trying to say that we should accept the junk. Which we absolutely should not. Anet refuses to make keys worthwhile to buy and would rather spite us out of legitimate rewards than do so.

No. My point being is that BLTC had these items from day one that’s what you spent keys on to get. Then in July 2013 they added tickets and now players seem to forget that the so called junk was what players were buying keys to get before tickets were added.

The free key at the end of the first chapter of the personal story was put there so new players would get a sampler of what the Gem Store offered. Their first free hit.

But once they added tickets the chest’s true purpose doesn’t matter anymore to some of you. It’s all about the tickets and if you don’t get one or at least a scrap then it’s a rip off. It’s not a rip off, it’s working as intended, as a means to get random stuff that is or once was available at the Gem Shop, plus some exclusives which includes tickets and scraps. Consciously ignoring that by saying the chests and hence the keys are only about the tickets is a perverted view on what that item is for.

Behellagh.1468:

Dinks.2478:

Astralporing.1957:

Behellagh.1468:

Astralporing.1957:

Too bad they didn’t think that it might be because it’s the chests that are a problem.

That’s only because players collectively ignore the fact that the “junk” in chests is actually what chests were designed to deliver.

Wait, what? If the players collectively ignored the fact that chests give out mostly junk, then they would be buying keys, and the whole problem wouldn’t exist. It’s because they know the chests’ worth that key sales drop.

I think he was trying to say that we should accept the junk. Which we absolutely should not. Anet refuses to make keys worthwhile to buy and would rather spite us out of legitimate rewards than do so.

No. My point being is that BLTC had these items from day one that’s what you spent keys on to get. Then in July 2013 they added tickets and now players seem to forget that the so called junk was what players were buying keys to get before tickets were added.

The free key at the end of the first chapter of the personal story was put there so new players would get a sampler of what the Gem Store offered. Their first free hit.

But once they added tickets the chest’s true purpose doesn’t matter anymore to some of you. It’s all about the tickets and if you don’t get one or at least a scrap then it’s a rip off. It’s not a rip off, it’s working as intended, as a means to get random stuff that is or once was available at the Gem Shop, plus some exclusives which includes tickets and scraps. Consciously ignoring that by saying the chests and hence the keys are only about the tickets is a perverted view on what that item is for.

You keep giving this history lesson and I think people are sick of hearing about it now. Okay we get it, the chests when FIRST released had a totally different purpose – to give random items from the pool of other items you could just buy directly. With that the chance to get some super rare items you could not buy directly – Tonics, perm bank contracts etc. I would say that the people were buying the keys for these items and not the other random junk because they could simply just buy them directly anyway.

Then Anet decided to add their frist skin set in the gem store, I can’t remember exactly how it went but I remember there was a LOT of anger over it because of the RNG and cost in the long run. So Anet then decided to shift them to the chests. I would say at this point the whole focus of the chests changed, and yes in Anet’s eyes.

So please, can we stop pretending that the purpose of these chests NOW is for a random thrill of getting boosters, dyes, minis or anything else that you can buy directly. Obviously this has changed not only in the eyes of the players but also in Anets. Why else would they advertise keys and chests as the way to get the new weapon skins every time a new set comes out? They certainly do not say:

“buy some keys now for a random item that you could get directly if you want, but just buy these keys now for the fun of getting one of them randomly – you will get a surprise everytime!” “oh and btw you may also get some scraps to turn into tickets to buy these new skins, but that’s not the main point here, go for the random fun of it all!”

What if… Keys were a PvP track reward?

Behellagh.1468:

Dinks.2478:

Astralporing.1957:

Behellagh.1468:

Astralporing.1957:

Too bad they didn’t think that it might be because it’s the chests that are a problem.

That’s only because players collectively ignore the fact that the “junk” in chests is actually what chests were designed to deliver.

Wait, what? If the players collectively ignored the fact that chests give out mostly junk, then they would be buying keys, and the whole problem wouldn’t exist. It’s because they know the chests’ worth that key sales drop.

I think he was trying to say that we should accept the junk. Which we absolutely should not. Anet refuses to make keys worthwhile to buy and would rather spite us out of legitimate rewards than do so.

No. My point being is that BLTC had these items from day one that’s what you spent keys on to get. Then in July 2013 they added tickets and now players seem to forget that the so called junk was what players were buying keys to get before tickets were added.

The free key at the end of the first chapter of the personal story was put there so new players would get a sampler of what the Gem Store offered. Their first free hit.

But once they added tickets the chest’s true purpose doesn’t matter anymore to some of you. It’s all about the tickets and if you don’t get one or at least a scrap then it’s a rip off. It’s not a rip off, it’s working as intended, as a means to get random stuff that is or once was available at the Gem Shop, plus some exclusives which includes tickets and scraps. Consciously ignoring that by saying the chests and hence the keys are only about the tickets is a perverted view on what that item is for.

Incorrect, their true purpose is scraps. If you wanted any of the other stuff in there you would buy it directly at a much cheaper price. You’re the only one here perverting what the item is for. They’ve had exclusive weapons as their selling points since the first halloween. Only 2 months after launch. They did that because that is the selling point.

Killyox.3950:

I had more precursor drops than key drops ;p

That has been the problem since the key drop rate change prior the September 15, 2015 Patch. The keys are said to have “Extremely rare drop from foes”. Originally they were listed as a Rare drop.

It would be nice if they were a Rare drop or at least the same as an exotic item drop. As it is now they drop less than a precursor. By Drop, crafted from Forge is included. It would make us all happy if the drop rate was 50-75% it was for 1st year.

We can only hope they will be a chest addition to RAID’s or some other special reward in HoT. I have boosted my MF to over 300 and farmed both lower level and high level maps for an hour each with no key and multiple rare item drops.

Please increase drop rate for keys more

Kain Francois.4328:

What if… Keys were a PvP track reward?

Nice Idea! Please add them as a dungeon completion reward also (for those of us who do not play PvP).

Change the dungeons to have all paths active at once and it all has to be completed | Vanquished | Cleared for the end chest to contain a Black Lion Key XD

That way it takes as much or more time as a low level key farm, removes server strain from character creations, improves dungeons so that are not “run” but Vanquished (like gw1 Vanquishing reward), improves dungeons to be more desirable.

Abimes.9726:

If only we could have 1 scrap every chest for sure at least that would be worth buying and doing that chest every weak.

Doing keyfarming once/week? Yes. Buying keys? For that Anet would need to upgrade it to at least a guaranteed ticket. As well as make other rare drops (nodes etc) buyable with tickets.

And i still think all those should be sold directly, not through a gambling subsystem.

Kain Francois.4328:

What if… Keys were a PvP track reward?

I was thinking that they may have had this in mind thus one of the reasons for nerfing the PS. Time will tell I guess.

I would like them to add a chance from JP chests too that could be a good incentive to get some of us out there and doing jps again. As it is now the rewards from them are garbage, well in my experience. :P

Oh of course they would have to do something about those who have chars “parked” at JP chests, that little “exploit” will need to be fixed as well.

Mmmm, one lost benefit of keyfarm is using it to get that last scarp when you’re stuck at 8 or 9.

I would be ok if the average cost per BL weapon was $6. like the single weapon skins.. that would still be expensive for a weapon skin that other games just add normally as content, but it would be kind of acceptable.

but $20+? I’d love to hear them try to explain that. Especially in a system that is based on gambling.

DarksunG.9537:

I would be ok if the average cost per BL weapon was $6. like the single weapon skins.. that would still be expensive for a weapon skin that other games just add normally as content, but it would be kind of acceptable.

but $20+? I’d love to hear them try to explain that. Especially in a system that is based on gambling.

The TP price is caused by the low supply caused by ANet’s tight-fisted drawing up of the chests’ drop table. Yet buying off the TP is the better proposition because whales keep buying keys, placing higher supply of the skins in the market while driving the price of keys/gems up.
If you want good evidence of how much some people love keys, just check the gem price spike when keys were 26% off (28th August).

Paulytnz.7619:

Kain Francois.4328:

What if… Keys were a PvP track reward?

I was thinking that they may have had this in mind thus one of the reasons for nerfing the PS. Time will tell I guess.

I would like them to add a chance from JP chests too that could be a good incentive to get some of us out there and doing jps again. As it is now the rewards from them are garbage, well in my experience. :P

Oh of course they would have to do something about those who have chars “parked” at JP chests, that little “exploit” will need to be fixed as well.

JP chest rewards are hardly garbage, especially for toons of certain level ranges. (~ level 21 for doubloons, ~ level 53 for mid-level mats, etc). Even my 80s get some relatively good loot sometimes like rares or exotics. They are also a viable source of Empyreal Fragments for players that may want to avoid WvW. Even the blue/green drops, crests/crystals, and (wintersday) trash items are worth a bit of silver. Considering how easy many of them are, it’s a pretty nice haul for very little effort. Given how easy several are to run, parking toons at their chests shouldn’t be viewed as an exploit either.

If ANet didn’t want players to be able to park and open those chests, they could introduce gating methods (keys, checkpoints, etc) similar to the newer JPs found in SW or LA.

I would be in favor of them significantly boosting the rewards for a few of the longer/harder JPs (Scavenger’s Chasm, for example) that don’t allow simple porting to bypass the majority of the JP. However, even a guaranteed BLK from some of those probably wouldn’t be enough to entice me to repeat them.

Seth Moonshadow.2710:

Kain Francois.4328:

What if… Keys were a PvP track reward?

Nice Idea! Please add them as a dungeon completion reward also (for those of us who do not play PvP).

Change the dungeons to have all paths active at once and it all has to be completed | Vanquished | Cleared for the end chest to contain a Black Lion Key XD

That way it takes as much or more time as a low level key farm, removes server strain from character creations, improves dungeons so that are not “run” but Vanquished (like gw1 Vanquishing reward), improves dungeons to be more desirable.

I have never understood why some people obsess over having to kill every mob, and want things taken away from/kept away from people who don’t want to play their way.

The mobs are simply an obstacle, there to give the place some flavor and slow you down. Like a simple puzzle. People who can think outside the box realize, hey, this guys here to slow me down but there’s nothing actually stopping me from just going past and completing the only thing technically listed on my objectives, namely kill the boss, and getting the only thing worth coming in here for, namely tokens.

ScribeTheMad.7614:

Seth Moonshadow.2710:

Kain Francois.4328:

What if… Keys were a PvP track reward?

Nice Idea! Please add them as a dungeon completion reward also (for those of us who do not play PvP).

Change the dungeons to have all paths active at once and it all has to be completed | Vanquished | Cleared for the end chest to contain a Black Lion Key XD

That way it takes as much or more time as a low level key farm, removes server strain from character creations, improves dungeons so that are not “run” but Vanquished (like gw1 Vanquishing reward), improves dungeons to be more desirable.

I have never understood why some people obsess over having to kill every mob, and want things taken away from/kept away from people who don’t want to play their way.

The mobs are simply an obstacle, there to give the place some flavor and slow you down. Like a simple puzzle. People who can think outside the box realize, hey, this guys here to slow me down but there’s nothing actually stopping me from just going past and completing the only thing technically listed on my objectives, namely kill the boss, and getting the only thing worth coming in here for, namely tokens.

It is just pure arrogance. These people think that their way is the only way and if other people don’t want to play their way then they have to somehow save them from themselves. It is like those people who hate kitten the Meta and insist that the Meta needs to end so that the Meta people can focus on having fun again instead okittennowledging that those people are having fun because of the Meta.

Paulytnz.7619:

Kain Francois.4328:

What if… Keys were a PvP track reward?

I was thinking that they may have had this in mind thus one of the reasons for nerfing the PS. Time will tell I guess.

I would like them to add a chance from JP chests too that could be a good incentive to get some of us out there and doing jps again. As it is now the rewards from them are garbage, well in my experience. :P

Oh of course they would have to do something about those who have chars “parked” at JP chests, that little “exploit” will need to be fixed as well.

How is that an exploit? JP’s are part of the open world. Rhendak is an exploit? Logging out at the tree’s in Orr is an exploit? You’d have to instance all the JP’s or something. Don’t be silly.

Paulytnz.7619:

You keep giving this history lesson and I think people are sick of hearing about it now. Okay we get it, the chests when FIRST released had a totally different purpose – to give random items from the pool of other items you could just buy directly. With that the chance to get some super rare items you could not buy directly – Tonics, perm bank contracts etc. I would say that the people were buying the keys for these items and not the other random junk because they could simply just buy them directly anyway.

Then Anet decided to add their frist skin set in the gem store, I can’t remember exactly how it went but I remember there was a LOT of anger over it because of the RNG and cost in the long run. So Anet then decided to shift them to the chests. I would say at this point the whole focus of the chests changed, and yes in Anet’s eyes.

So please, can we stop pretending that the purpose of these chests NOW is for a random thrill of getting boosters, dyes, minis or anything else that you can buy directly. Obviously this has changed not only in the eyes of the players but also in Anets. Why else would they advertise keys and chests as the way to get the new weapon skins every time a new set comes out? They certainly do not say:

“buy some keys now for a random item that you could get directly if you want, but just buy these keys now for the fun of getting one of them randomly – you will get a surprise everytime!” “oh and btw you may also get some scraps to turn into tickets to buy these new skins, but that’s not the main point here, go for the random fun of it all!”

The purpose from ANet’s perspective has not changed. If it did then they would have substantially alter the chest’s drop table. They haven’t. They’ve tweaked it from time to time, adding one kind of “junk” to replace another. They’ve modified some of the drop rates. They’ve added items you can no longer buy directly from the Gem Shop. But it still is fundamentally a sampler whether you are willing to acknowledge that or not.

Do people buy chocolate samplers because they only want chocolate Turtles or ones with coconut fillings? No, of course not, they buy a box of what they want. So yes, if a player wants something particular that a chest drops that’s also in the Gem Shop that of course they will buy it directly. Yet boxes of chocolate samplers still sell in greater volume than boxes with only a specific kind.

Ever play a CCG? CCG booster packs are another example of a random collection where you don’t know what you are going to get, a sample of cards. Yes MTG and other CCGs became a battle of wallets with players buying cases of display boxes of boosters to get those desirable rares but that doesn’t mean the rest of those cards are junk or the intent behind the distribution method wasn’t sound.

But you all are so goal focus, your blinders don’t let you even acknowledge that there is another purpose for BLTC than a means to get tickets. They aren’t broken, your view of them are.

Forum Bug, she’s on it.