User was infracted for being awesome.
Personaly, I don't think Dailies are a good idea
then MMOs generally might not be for you
I thought ArenaNet was trying to push outside of the MMO market though?
Not only that, but MMO’s haven’t really changed much in the last 10 years. GW2 certainly hasn’t done anything game changing that we can’t find pieces of in other games.
Maybe, it’s people like you holding back the genre by telling people who want better game mechanics that this game isn’t for them.
Not really a constructive comment or argument if you ask me.
then MMOs generally might not be for you
I thought ArenaNet was trying to push outside of the MMO market though?
Not only that, but MMO’s haven’t really changed much in the last 10 years. GW2 certainly hasn’t done anything game changing that we can’t find pieces of in other games.
Maybe, it’s people like you holding back the genre by saying that people who want better games telling everyone that this game isn’t for them.
Not really a constructive comment or argument if you ask me.
Sure Guild Wars 2 is trying to push outside the MMO market…but that doesn’t mean every single possible feature will or can change. People are always holding back progress. So if Anet made the perfect game, and no one played it, who would that help? lol
So if Anet made the perfect game, and no one played it, who would that help? lol
People with taste, who would likely not be “no one”.
User was infracted for being awesome.
then MMOs generally might not be for you
I thought ArenaNet was trying to push outside of the MMO market though?
Not only that, but MMO’s haven’t really changed much in the last 10 years. GW2 certainly hasn’t done anything game changing that we can’t find pieces of in other games.
Maybe, it’s people like you holding back the genre by telling people who want better game mechanics that this game isn’t for them.
Not really a constructive comment or argument if you ask me.
1. You countered your own argument. You started off by saying that ArenaNet is different and then went on to say it’s the same as other MMO’s?
2. You may see it as holding back the genre; however, many of us like it as is. We do not want the changes you are suggesting, because we believe it will make the game worse. You are the one asking for change, we are asking to remain the same. You want to ‘make the game better’, but we see you as a threat to the game’s quality.
Constructive comment? Please do not change the game for the worse (imo) by removing gear progression, removing stats and/or removing dailies.
Without progression, I will get very bored very fast
WIthout stats, combat will become very stale very fast
Without dailies, I will stop logging in (assuming that their is no progression and combat is stale)
then MMOs generally might not be for you
I thought ArenaNet was trying to push outside of the MMO market though?
Not only that, but MMO’s haven’t really changed much in the last 10 years. GW2 certainly hasn’t done anything game changing that we can’t find pieces of in other games.
Maybe, it’s people like you holding back the genre by saying that people who want better games telling everyone that this game isn’t for them.
Not really a constructive comment or argument if you ask me.
So if Anet made the perfect game, and no one played it, who would that help? lol
People with taste, who would likely not be “no one”.
I’m pretty sure people with taste represent the smallest percentage of the population. Reference some of the reality shows that have been popular over the past years. Good doesn’t necessarily sell. I learned that in the publishing business.
then MMOs generally might not be for you
I thought ArenaNet was trying to push outside of the MMO market though?
Not only that, but MMO’s haven’t really changed much in the last 10 years. GW2 certainly hasn’t done anything game changing that we can’t find pieces of in other games.
Maybe, it’s people like you holding back the genre by saying that people who want better games telling everyone that this game isn’t for them.
Not really a constructive comment or argument if you ask me.
Sure Guild Wars 2 is trying to push outside the MMO market…but that doesn’t mean every single possible feature will or can change. People are always holding back progress. So if Anet made the perfect game, and no one played it, who would that help? lol
It’s amazing how many words you put in my mouth in that little paragraph.
Time based grind is just bad lazy design. Sure, it works, but it can be better. Logically, objectively, it can be better. That is all.
Also, don’t you think that it would be a bit ridiculous to suggest that if someone made the perfect game, no one would play it? That would be like saying that if someone made a perfect pizza, the best pizza in the world, no one would eat it.
The MMO market is stale, and your attacking players because they want something better, by saying maybe MMO’s aren’t for them, is the antithesis of innovation. But, we have been down this path before haven’t we? You seem to be against anything innovative because you would rather blindly defend GW2 and ArenaNet.
I like dailies. >_> I don’t like a lot of GW2’s dailies, though. For instance- yesterday’s daily pool was awesome. Today’s, to me, is horrendous and way too time consuming. If my daily takes between 30 min to 1 hour, I’m a happy Tolmos. If it takes 2-3 hours, like today’s took me, then I’m not a happy Tolmos… mainly because that’s pretty much the full play time I have and I usually want to do something else too (like a story step on an alt or something)
then MMOs generally might not be for you
I thought ArenaNet was trying to push outside of the MMO market though?
Not only that, but MMO’s haven’t really changed much in the last 10 years. GW2 certainly hasn’t done anything game changing that we can’t find pieces of in other games.
Maybe, it’s people like you holding back the genre by telling people who want better game mechanics that this game isn’t for them.
Not really a constructive comment or argument if you ask me.
1. You countered your own argument. You started off by saying that ArenaNet is different and then went on to say it’s the same as other MMO’s?
2. You may see it as holding back the genre; however, many of us like it as is. We do not want the changes you are suggesting, because we believe it will make the game worse. You are the one asking for change, we are asking to remain the same. You want to ‘make the game better’, but we see you as a threat to the game’s quality.
Constructive comment? Please do not change the game for the worse (imo) by removing gear progression, removing stats and/or removing dailies.
Without progression, I will get very bored very fast
WIthout stats, combat will become very stale very fast
Without dailies, I will stop logging in (assuming that their is no progression and combat is stale)
1. I don’t see where I said ANet is different. Please quote that part of my post that I didn’t write.
2. Your opinion is exactly why MMO’s are stale. If you don’t want innovation, be prepared to be disappointed. This is a general thing and not specific to MMO’s.
3. If what you say is true, that dailies are the only thing keeping you logging in, then this game isn’t fun for you. Sorry, but you are basing your fun on completing a chore. I would prefer to play games where the activities amount to more than chores.
GW1’s rotating bonus weekends > dailies, in this hardcore gamer’s opinion.
User was infracted for being awesome.
then MMOs generally might not be for you
I thought ArenaNet was trying to push outside of the MMO market though?
Not only that, but MMO’s haven’t really changed much in the last 10 years. GW2 certainly hasn’t done anything game changing that we can’t find pieces of in other games.
Maybe, it’s people like you holding back the genre by saying that people who want better games telling everyone that this game isn’t for them.
Not really a constructive comment or argument if you ask me.
Sure Guild Wars 2 is trying to push outside the MMO market…but that doesn’t mean every single possible feature will or can change. People are always holding back progress. So if Anet made the perfect game, and no one played it, who would that help? lol
It’s amazing how many words you put in my mouth in that little paragraph.
Time based grind is just bad lazy design. Sure, it works, but it can be better. Logically, objectively, it can be better. That is all.
Also, don’t you think that it would be a bit ridiculous to suggest that if someone made the perfect game, no one would play it? That would be like saying that if someone made a perfect pizza, the best pizza in the world, no one would eat it.
The MMO market is stale, and your attacking players because they want something better, by saying maybe MMO’s aren’t for them, is the antithesis of innovation. But, we have been down this path before haven’t we? You seem to be against anything innovative because you would rather blindly defend GW2 and ArenaNet.
People have written amazing books that haven’t sold. And other very pedestrian books have sold very well. You can’t tell what people will and won’t buy. Often something comes out before it’s time and does badly when it might have done well at a different time.
And you keep using that word lazy design. Your opinion. I think it’s quite logical if “good” content takes time, to put in filler until you can get that good content out. Every MMO does it.
Time based grind is just bad lazy design. Sure, it works, but it can be better. Logically, objectively, it can be better. That is all.
Can you clarify your comment. What specifically do you qualify as time based grind? What is wrong with it? I imagine after you answer these questions, you will see that it cannot be better based on objectivity. This is because better is inherently an opinion based term.
Logically, anything can be better.
However, I would like to hear you clarify what aspects of the game you mean when you say time based grind (reasonably vague, that could mean levelling up, farming for materials, and a host of other things). As it is in this thread, I can naturally assume you mean dailies, but I assume it is not exclusive to that.
Once you define it can you please explain what specifically is ‘bad’ about it?
Once you specify what is bad, please provide some possible solutions.
Not only that, but MMO’s haven’t really changed much in the last 10 years. GW2 certainly hasn’t done anything game changing that we can’t find pieces of in other games.
Hearts and world events which you don’t need a party to participate. In fact, I don’t see many MMOs where any characters’ effects would apply to eveyone else who is not in their party.
And you keep using that word lazy design. Your opinion. I think it’s quite logical if “good” content takes time, to put in filler until you can get that good content out. Every MMO does it.
Ah, that is where you are wrong. Time based progression and vertical progression are just bad design. Why?
Well, like I said before, vertical progression is based on making things do the same, only with bigger numbers. The result, is that you gate content from players. Neither of these things are inherently good. They don’t provide more depth to a game. Horizontal progression on the other hand, requires more work, but adds depth. Depth is an inherently good thing about a game. Gating players from content is not an inherently good thing about a game.
Similarly, time based progression is even worse. Progression should really be based on skill. I could go in to why, but I know that most intelligent people will agree with this and that you won’t so why bother?
Not only that, but MMO’s haven’t really changed much in the last 10 years. GW2 certainly hasn’t done anything game changing that we can’t find pieces of in other games.
Hearts and world events which you don’t need a party to participate. In fact, I don’t see many MMOs where any characters’ effects would apply to eveyone else who is not in their party.
Hearts are very much like those NPCs we know so well from previous games that have ! over their head, and once that ! is gone, that is the game designers to move on to the next ride on the theme park, even if we like where we are better. Except now, this concept is represented by a filled in heart.
User was infracted for being awesome.
3. If what you say is true, that dailies are the only thing keeping you logging in, then this game isn’t fun for you. Sorry, but you are basing your fun on completing a chore. I would prefer to play games where the activities amount to more than chores.
I dont entirely disagree with you, but on this section I do. If he logs in to play the daily, you would be more proper to say “That doesn’t sound fun to ME” as opposed to “this game isn’t fun for you”. There are people who like chores. There are folks who LOVE cleaning their house. There are guys in my neighborhood that will spend an entire afternoon washing and waxing the same car they washed and waxed yesterday. Me? I look at both of those situations and go “wtf is wrong with you people?” I sit in my comfy computer chair, playing GW2 or some other game.
I don’t disagree that the idea of dailies and especially gear progression are stale. But that said, I personally like dailies and, while I despise it, understand some people like gear progression. To us, these things you don’t like are fun. Yes, they are old concepts. Yes, I’d like to see something new and innovative. But so far, nothing new or innovative exists, so we use what we have.
then MMOs generally might not be for you
I thought ArenaNet was trying to push outside of the MMO market though?
Not only that, but MMO’s haven’t really changed much in the last 10 years. GW2 certainly hasn’t done anything game changing that we can’t find pieces of in other games.
Maybe, it’s people like you holding back the genre by saying that people who want better games telling everyone that this game isn’t for them.
Not really a constructive comment or argument if you ask me.
Sure Guild Wars 2 is trying to push outside the MMO market…but that doesn’t mean every single possible feature will or can change. People are always holding back progress. So if Anet made the perfect game, and no one played it, who would that help? lol
It’s amazing how many words you put in my mouth in that little paragraph.
Time based grind is just bad lazy design. Sure, it works, but it can be better. Logically, objectively, it can be better. That is all.
Also, don’t you think that it would be a bit ridiculous to suggest that if someone made the perfect game, no one would play it? That would be like saying that if someone made a perfect pizza, the best pizza in the world, no one would eat it.
The MMO market is stale, and your attacking players because they want something better, by saying maybe MMO’s aren’t for them, is the antithesis of innovation. But, we have been down this path before haven’t we? You seem to be against anything innovative because you would rather blindly defend GW2 and ArenaNet.
People have written amazing books that haven’t sold. And other very pedestrian books have sold very well. You can’t tell what people will and won’t buy. Often something comes out before it’s time and does badly when it might have done well at a different time.
And you keep using that word lazy design. Your opinion. I think it’s quite logical if “good” content takes time, to put in filler until you can get that good content out. Every MMO does it.
Filler content is what got MMO’s into the mess the industry is in the first place, let’s not continue making content that destroys the intent of a game, especially when the game’s manifesto specifically said it wasn’t going to be another grind MMO.
I see where you are coming from, it can’t be all triple a content every week every patch, but I would rather them add real content every 2-3 months than what we have been getting like laurel/daily grinds, Flame and Frost, which I’m still even sure what the point of F&F is, and SAB? Yea SAB is cool and fun and innovative for an MMO mini game, but it’s not content with staying power or lasting appeal.
Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.
then MMOs generally might not be for you
I thought ArenaNet was trying to push outside of the MMO market though?
Not only that, but MMO’s haven’t really changed much in the last 10 years. GW2 certainly hasn’t done anything game changing that we can’t find pieces of in other games.
Maybe, it’s people like you holding back the genre by telling people who want better game mechanics that this game isn’t for them.
Not really a constructive comment or argument if you ask me.
1. You countered your own argument. You started off by saying that ArenaNet is different and then went on to say it’s the same as other MMO’s?
2. You may see it as holding back the genre; however, many of us like it as is. We do not want the changes you are suggesting, because we believe it will make the game worse. You are the one asking for change, we are asking to remain the same. You want to ‘make the game better’, but we see you as a threat to the game’s quality.
Constructive comment? Please do not change the game for the worse (imo) by removing gear progression, removing stats and/or removing dailies.
Without progression, I will get very bored very fast
WIthout stats, combat will become very stale very fast
Without dailies, I will stop logging in (assuming that their is no progression and combat is stale)1. I don’t see where I said ANet is different. Please quote that part of my post that I didn’t write.
2. Your opinion is exactly why MMO’s are stale. If you don’t want innovation, be prepared to be disappointed. This is a general thing and not specific to MMO’s.
3. If what you say is true, that dailies are the only thing keeping you logging in, then this game isn’t fun for you. Sorry, but you are basing your fun on completing a chore. I would prefer to play games where the activities amount to more than chores.
1. Perhaps I misunderstood you. I assumed this is what you meant by “ArenaNet was trying to push outside of the MMO market”
2. MMO’s are stale is also an opinion. I am all for innovation. It is hard to tell from this back and forth where our opinions differ and where they are the same. I am sure there is some cross over, as we both play Guild Wars 2. I, however, do enjoy vertical progression, gaining levels, PVE, stat based gear and combat, action based combat and time based content.
3. Dailies are not the only thing keeping me logging in. I specifically said that if the other changes are made, the only thing that would keep me logging in are the dailies. Currently, I very much enjoy the progression and combat.
4. (This is my 2nd reply to part 3). Completing dailies doesn’t necessarily equate to being a chore. Any task that you have to do can be considered a chore by someone who doesn’t like doing it. For example, I could consider taking a keep in WvWvW to be a chore (and I do). However, I find most of the things on the dailies to be quite fun. I have done a few jumping puzzles that I would have never experienced had I not been completing my daily. I found a few that I really like.
And you keep using that word lazy design. Your opinion. I think it’s quite logical if “good” content takes time, to put in filler until you can get that good content out. Every MMO does it.
Ah, that is where you are wrong. Time based progression and vertical progression are just bad design. Why?
Well, like I said before, vertical progression is based on making things do the same, only with bigger numbers. The result, is that you gate content from players. Neither of these things are inherently good. They don’t provide more depth to a game. Horizontal progression on the other hand, requires more work, but adds depth. Depth is an inherently good thing about a game. Gating players from content is not an inherently good thing about a game.
Similarly, time based progression is even worse. Progression should really be based on skill. I could go in to why, but I know that most intelligent people will agree with this and that you won’t so why bother?
Why should progression be based on skill? Because you say so? In most MMOs, even in Guild Wars 1, you could progress quite far with no skill at all. None. Zero.
Running Shiro, 500 gold. You could get run through dungeons and finish that game and progress quite nicely.
People get carried through games all the time. If skill were truly central to progression, everything would have to be solo. No, in an MMO, most of them, you progress via time, not skill. The same is true of most games today, unless you’re in some kind of special tournament.
Time gating exists to slow down progress while companies work on content. In an ideal world, good content would magically appear faster than people could burn through it. Not so much in this world.
And you keep using that word lazy design. Your opinion. I think it’s quite logical if “good” content takes time, to put in filler until you can get that good content out. Every MMO does it.
Ah, that is where you are wrong. Time based progression and vertical progression are just bad design. Why?
Well, like I said before, vertical progression is based on making things do the same, only with bigger numbers. The result, is that you gate content from players. Neither of these things are inherently good. They don’t provide more depth to a game. Horizontal progression on the other hand, requires more work, but adds depth. Depth is an inherently good thing about a game. Gating players from content is not an inherently good thing about a game.
Similarly, time based progression is even worse. Progression should really be based on skill. I could go in to why, but I know that most intelligent people will agree with this and that you won’t so why bother?
Ouch! There is no reason to blatantly insult people in a debate! That is cold.
I disagree that these are inherently good and bad. 1. Gated content gives you something to aim for. i.e. levelling up.. You are level 20 and can’t wait to get to level 80. You log in with that goal in mind and anxiously wait that moment when you’ve earned it. Level 80 areas, gear and dungeons are all gated against the lower level, but this isn’t inherently bad. Some may not like it, but some do.
Time based progression is good for two reasons. One it helps keep the economy in check. Two it keeps you working towards something. Having a goal in mind is very important for a lot of players.
Time based grind is just bad lazy design. Sure, it works, but it can be better. Logically, objectively, it can be better. That is all.
Can you clarify your comment. What specifically do you qualify as time based grind? What is wrong with it? I imagine after you answer these questions, you will see that it cannot be better based on objectivity. This is because better is inherently an opinion based term.
Logically, anything can be better.
However, I would like to hear you clarify what aspects of the game you mean when you say time based grind (reasonably vague, that could mean levelling up, farming for materials, and a host of other things). As it is in this thread, I can naturally assume you mean dailies, but I assume it is not exclusive to that.
Once you define it can you please explain what specifically is ‘bad’ about it?
Once you specify what is bad, please provide some possible solutions.
Let’s look at a basic scenario. Let’s say you need to kill 10 things to level up. Now, let’s say that those 10 things, no matter how good or efficient you are at killing them, is going to take 1 hour to level up.
Repeating something that you have mastered is boring. It is artificially gating you from something regardless of whether you have mastered it or not.
Another example: school. Let’s say that you spent the same time in class as Johnny. You did well enough to understand the material and went on to the next class or grade. Johnny, however, didn’t understand the material at all. Should he, then, go to the next class or grade level just because he spent the same amount of time as you in class? No.
So, how does this affect MMO’s? Well, let’s look at dungeons for example. What is the reward for mastering a dungeon? The dungeon armor. However, instead of making it about being the master of the dungeon, it is about completing it X number of times.
So, what we have is that someone who really has mastered the dungeon gets the same reward as someone who may have been carried by his 4 other teammates for doing the same dungeon the same amount of times. That isn’t fair either.
There are many ways to fix this. I would be happy to continue if you like.
And you keep using that word lazy design. Your opinion. I think it’s quite logical if “good” content takes time, to put in filler until you can get that good content out. Every MMO does it.
Ah, that is where you are wrong. Time based progression and vertical progression are just bad design. Why?
Well, like I said before, vertical progression is based on making things do the same, only with bigger numbers. The result, is that you gate content from players. Neither of these things are inherently good. They don’t provide more depth to a game. Horizontal progression on the other hand, requires more work, but adds depth. Depth is an inherently good thing about a game. Gating players from content is not an inherently good thing about a game.
Similarly, time based progression is even worse. Progression should really be based on skill. I could go in to why, but I know that most intelligent people will agree with this and that you won’t so why bother?
Why should progression be based on skill? Because you say so? In most MMOs, even in Guild Wars 1, you could progress quite far with no skill at all. None. Zero.
Running Shiro, 500 gold. You could get run through dungeons and finish that game and progress quite nicely.
People get carried through games all the time. If skill were truly central to progression, everything would have to be solo. No, in an MMO, most of them, you progress via time, not skill. The same is true of most games today, unless you’re in some kind of special tournament.
Time gating exists to slow down progress while companies work on content. In an ideal world, good content would magically appear faster than people could burn through it. Not so much in this world.
Again, you make the mistake of comparing what other games may have done well or not well and applying it to this game, rather than debating the actual mechanics.
Whether GW1 did something well or not doesn’t matter. Let’s talk about the mechanics themselves rather than say, “but other MMO’s do it too, so we shouldn’t question it.”
Time based progression is good for two reasons. One it helps keep the economy in check. Two it keeps you working towards something. Having a goal in mind is very important for a lot of players.
Goals are important and are not reliant upon time based progression. Listen, I’m not saying it’s bad as in it shouldn’t exist. I’m saying it is worse than skill based progression. When given the choice skill should outweigh time.
Only thing I don’t like about it is the fact Laurels can not be obtained any other way.
Every other “Daily Rewards” can be obtained (farm karma, buy mystic coin off TP) except Laurels.
I think a majority of players try their best to do their dailies even without the temptation of Laurels because it has a chance of giving them a Black Lion Salvage kit (which is around 300 gems in value). It’s also a good chunk of exp on a character that needs it.
If i remember correctly, Anet was working on another way to obtaining Laurels through achievements? Can someone confirm?
And you keep using that word lazy design. Your opinion. I think it’s quite logical if “good” content takes time, to put in filler until you can get that good content out. Every MMO does it.
Ah, that is where you are wrong. Time based progression and vertical progression are just bad design. Why?
Well, like I said before, vertical progression is based on making things do the same, only with bigger numbers. The result, is that you gate content from players. Neither of these things are inherently good. They don’t provide more depth to a game. Horizontal progression on the other hand, requires more work, but adds depth. Depth is an inherently good thing about a game. Gating players from content is not an inherently good thing about a game.
Similarly, time based progression is even worse. Progression should really be based on skill. I could go in to why, but I know that most intelligent people will agree with this and that you won’t so why bother?
Why should progression be based on skill? Because you say so? In most MMOs, even in Guild Wars 1, you could progress quite far with no skill at all. None. Zero.
Running Shiro, 500 gold. You could get run through dungeons and finish that game and progress quite nicely.
People get carried through games all the time. If skill were truly central to progression, everything would have to be solo. No, in an MMO, most of them, you progress via time, not skill. The same is true of most games today, unless you’re in some kind of special tournament.
Time gating exists to slow down progress while companies work on content. In an ideal world, good content would magically appear faster than people could burn through it. Not so much in this world.
Again, you make the mistake of comparing what other games may have done well or not well and applying it to this game, rather than debating the actual mechanics.
Whether GW1 did something well or not doesn’t matter. Let’s talk about the mechanics themselves rather than say, “but other MMO’s do it too, so we shouldn’t question it.”
I have been talking about the mechanics of this game. And the time it takes to program content, which you keep ignoring. Sure time gated content isn’t “optimal” content. A new dungeon or new fractals would be better.
What are people supposed to be doing waiting around for that stuff? Time gated stuff is actually what keeps most MMOs alive, and I don’t think Guild Wars 2 is any exception. The actual mechanics are secondary to the need to find stuff for people to do while waiting for more content. Because no one can create content faster than people can consume it.
Time based progression is good for two reasons. One it helps keep the economy in check. Two it keeps you working towards something. Having a goal in mind is very important for a lot of players.
Goals are important and are not reliant upon time based progression. Listen, I’m not saying it’s bad as in it shouldn’t exist. I’m saying it is worse than skill based progression. When given the choice skill should outweigh time.
In a competitive game, I completely agree with you. In PvP for example, I think skill should outweigh time. In PvE there should be challenges where skill outweighs time and there should be other options as well, for people not as skilled, because ultimately, those people are the people who pay for development of new content.
There are far more less skilled people playing MMOs than skilled people.
Let’s look at a basic scenario. Let’s say you need to kill 10 things to level up. Now, let’s say that those 10 things, no matter how good or efficient you are at killing them, is going to take 1 hour to level up.
Repeating something that you have mastered is boring. It is artificially gating you from something regardless of whether you have mastered it or not.
Another example: school. Let’s say that you spent the same time in class as Johnny. You did well enough to understand the material and went on to the next class or grade. Johnny, however, didn’t understand the material at all. Should he, then, go to the next class or grade level just because he spent the same amount of time as you in class? No.
So, how does this affect MMO’s? Well, let’s look at dungeons for example. What is the reward for mastering a dungeon? The dungeon armor. However, instead of making it about being the master of the dungeon, it is about completing it X number of times.
So, what we have is that someone who really has mastered the dungeon gets the same reward as someone who may have been carried by his 4 other teammates for doing the same dungeon the same amount of times. That isn’t fair either.
There are many ways to fix this. I would be happy to continue if you like.
Hmm, you are assuming that completing the dungeon takes the exact same amount of time for everyone.
A more similar analogy to school would be:
I, person A, takes 10 minutes to complete my final test.
Johny, person B, takes 2 hours to complete their final test.
Assuming we both passed, we both move on to the next grade. Even though I took 10 minutes and he took 2 hours. It is quite possible he failed and does not pass on.
In the case of the dungeons..
I take 10 minutes to complete a dungeon
Johnny takes 2 hours to complete a dungeon, Johnny dies 30x and has a crazy repair bill, in the end we both get armor. Johnny spends X x 2 hours to get his armor (assuming he doesn’t get better each run) and I get it in X x .16 hours to get my armor. I also did not spend gold on repair bills from dying over and over. Johnny may end up not even completing the dungeon a few times.
Long story short. We do not spend the same amount of time if we are on different skill levels to acquire the same amount of armor.
However, I understand your point about being carried. Perhaps you are correct. Dungeons should now be soloable and parties should be removed from the game. (Sarcasm). In all seriousness, how do you suggest they fix the problem of being carried through dungeons to acquire armor that other skilled players earn?
(edited by Jemmi.6058)
Dungeons should now be soloable and parties should be removed from the game.
If this happened I would spend so much time logged into GW2 that I would probably lose my job.
I have been talking about the mechanics of this game. And the time it takes to program content, which you keep ignoring. Sure time gated content isn’t “optimal” content. A new dungeon or new fractals would be better.
What are people supposed to be doing waiting around for that stuff? Time gated stuff is actually what keeps most MMOs alive, and I don’t think Guild Wars 2 is any exception. The actual mechanics are secondary to the need to find stuff for people to do while waiting for more content. Because no one can create content faster than people can consume it.
Well, one would hope that the content already available has a high level of repeat-ability outside the need for progression.
I agree, that if the “rides” that are in a themepark MMO aren’t fun to ride too many times, then time based progression is a way to artificially enhance the attractiveness of the ride while new ones are built. However, we still have a problem as to why the rides aren’t fun to ride as they are.
For example, why are many many dungeons largely ignored? Perhaps they aren’t fun. Perhaps, they don’t offer the same kind of rewards as other dungeons. But, those are also problems that need to be addressed.
Time based progression is good for two reasons. One it helps keep the economy in check. Two it keeps you working towards something. Having a goal in mind is very important for a lot of players.
Goals are important and are not reliant upon time based progression. Listen, I’m not saying it’s bad as in it shouldn’t exist. I’m saying it is worse than skill based progression. When given the choice skill should outweigh time.
In a competitive game, I completely agree with you. In PvP for example, I think skill should outweigh time. In PvE there should be challenges where skill outweighs time and there should be other options as well, for people not as skilled, because ultimately, those people are the people who pay for development of new content.
There are far more less skilled people playing MMOs than skilled people.
I agree. Which is why skill should just be more important than time. It shouldn’t be the only deciding factor. Unfortunately, in GW2, it is often times the more important of the two factors by leaps and bounds.
I’ve been reading through some of these posts and most of the ones that say they are cool with dailies are also the ones who don’t care about dailies. This simply means most will please you no matter what they are. More success can be made by decision that are likeable by those who do care, simply put. It won’t hurt those that don’t care, and those that do will also be pleased. Simply put, no one particularly likes dailies for what they are. Some people dislike them and the rest are mainly neutral. Doesn’t that make it overall a bad design and idea? If it were a good idea, most would like it, a lot would be neutral, and some would hate it. that’s a good design philosophy to me.
I have been talking about the mechanics of this game. And the time it takes to program content, which you keep ignoring. Sure time gated content isn’t “optimal” content. A new dungeon or new fractals would be better.
What are people supposed to be doing waiting around for that stuff? Time gated stuff is actually what keeps most MMOs alive, and I don’t think Guild Wars 2 is any exception. The actual mechanics are secondary to the need to find stuff for people to do while waiting for more content. Because no one can create content faster than people can consume it.
Well, one would hope that the content already available has a high level of repeat-ability outside the need for progression.
I agree, that if the “rides” that are in a themepark MMO aren’t fun to ride too many times, then time based progression is a way to artificially enhance the attractiveness of the ride while new ones are built. However, we still have a problem as to why the rides aren’t fun to ride as they are.
For example, why are many many dungeons largely ignored? Perhaps they aren’t fun. Perhaps, they don’t offer the same kind of rewards as other dungeons. But, those are also problems that need to be addressed.
Well, the fractals are quite liked but you can still only play your favorite song so many times, eat your favorite food so many times, etc. Unlike most games which can be finished in 20 hours, MMOs ask people to play for hundreds of hours…or people do whether asked to or not.
So yeah, its’ great to say content should be fun, but there will NEVER be enough fun content that’s infinitely repeatable. No matter how much I liked some missions in Prophecies, and I did, I couldn’t do them dozens of times in a month.
So, after 6 pages of arguing and complaining, I believe I’ve seen two actual suggestions:
- Change the daily requirements to a weekly that can be completed in one longer session
- Eliminate laurels from dailies
The first is guaranteed to not please everyone. Some people are happy to see players spread out to different zones. Players who like the focus provided by having daily objectives.
The second suggestion might mean putting laurel acquisition into a different type of content. Since we don’t know what that would be, it’s hard to judge the reactions to it — but I’m betting someone, maybe many someones, are going to be angry. The other option would be to eliminate laurels altogether. This would result in FotM being once again the only way to gain Ascended Rings and large guild missions as the only means to gain earrings. Amulets would have to be put into some other form of content. Again, you’re going to have some portion of the player-base cheesed off.
I’m still waiting for a good suggestion.
I’ve been reading through some of these posts and most of the ones that say they are cool with dailies are also the ones who don’t care about dailies. This simply means most will please you no matter what they are. More success can be made by decision that are likeable by those who do care, simply put. It won’t hurt those that don’t care, and those that do will also be pleased. Simply put, no one particularly likes dailies for what they are. Some people dislike them and the rest are mainly neutral. Doesn’t that make it overall a bad design and idea? If it were a good idea, most would like it, a lot would be neutral, and some would hate it. that’s a good design philosophy to me.
I cannot speak for most, but I like dailies – as I said a few posts above, I found a few jumping puzzles that I would not have completed otherwise. I’ve also been encouraged to finish story mode dungeons, work on world completion and a few other things. It does a good job of getting me moving around and doing different things.
Let’s look at a basic scenario. Let’s say you need to kill 10 things to level up. Now, let’s say that those 10 things, no matter how good or efficient you are at killing them, is going to take 1 hour to level up.
Repeating something that you have mastered is boring. It is artificially gating you from something regardless of whether you have mastered it or not.
Another example: school. Let’s say that you spent the same time in class as Johnny. You did well enough to understand the material and went on to the next class or grade. Johnny, however, didn’t understand the material at all. Should he, then, go to the next class or grade level just because he spent the same amount of time as you in class? No.
So, how does this affect MMO’s? Well, let’s look at dungeons for example. What is the reward for mastering a dungeon? The dungeon armor. However, instead of making it about being the master of the dungeon, it is about completing it X number of times.
So, what we have is that someone who really has mastered the dungeon gets the same reward as someone who may have been carried by his 4 other teammates for doing the same dungeon the same amount of times. That isn’t fair either.
There are many ways to fix this. I would be happy to continue if you like.
Hmm, you are assuming that completing the dungeon takes the exact same amount of time for everyone.
A more similar analogy to school would be:
I, person A, takes 10 minutes to complete my final test.
Johny, person B, takes 2 hours to complete their final test.
Assuming we both passed, we both move on to the next grade. Even though I took 10 minutes and he took 2 hours. It is quite possible he failed and does not pass on.
In the case of the dungeons..
I take 10 minutes to complete a dungeon
Johnny takes 2 hours to complete a dungeon, Johnny dies 30x and has a crazy repair bill, in the end we both get armor. Johnny spends X x 2 hours to get his armor (assuming he doesn’t get better each run) and I get it in X x .16 hours to get my armor. I also did not spend gold on repair bills from dying over and over. Johnny may end up not even completing the dungeon a few times.Long story short. We do not spend the same amount of time if we are on different skill levels to acquire the same amount of armor.
However, I understand your point about being carried. Perhaps you are correct. Dungeons should now be soloable and parties should be removed from the game. (Sarcasm). In all seriousness, how do you suggest they fix the problem of being carried through dungeons to acquire armor that other skilled players earn?
I think that there should be a better measure of “mastering” the dungeon than how many times you have run it.
Secondary objectives that add more difficult and more rewarding content are a possibility. Some way of working a “score” in to the dungeons that calculates something like content cleared vs. time taken to clear and has bonus points for separate objectives would be interesting. Your tokens rewarded could be based on your score. Similarly, you could add a leaderboard that shows the highest 10 scores – which might add the want to repeat the content just for getting your name in the top 10. Now, you have the added bonus of repeat-ability without needing to change much of anything – even rewards.
I’ve been reading through some of these posts and most of the ones that say they are cool with dailies are also the ones who don’t care about dailies. This simply means most will please you no matter what they are. More success can be made by decision that are likeable by those who do care, simply put. It won’t hurt those that don’t care, and those that do will also be pleased. Simply put, no one particularly likes dailies for what they are. Some people dislike them and the rest are mainly neutral. Doesn’t that make it overall a bad design and idea? If it were a good idea, most would like it, a lot would be neutral, and some would hate it. that’s a good design philosophy to me.
I cannot speak for most, but I like dailies – as I said a few posts above, I found a few jumping puzzles that I would not have completed otherwise. I’ve also been encouraged to finish story mode dungeons, work on world completion and a few other things. It does a good job of getting me moving around and doing different things.
I’m glad your enjoying them seeing as that’s the purpose, but I think people would like a greater incentive to experience the content other than just dailies.
Let’s look at a basic scenario. Let’s say you need to kill 10 things to level up. Now, let’s say that those 10 things, no matter how good or efficient you are at killing them, is going to take 1 hour to level up.
Repeating something that you have mastered is boring. It is artificially gating you from something regardless of whether you have mastered it or not.
Another example: school. Let’s say that you spent the same time in class as Johnny. You did well enough to understand the material and went on to the next class or grade. Johnny, however, didn’t understand the material at all. Should he, then, go to the next class or grade level just because he spent the same amount of time as you in class? No.
So, how does this affect MMO’s? Well, let’s look at dungeons for example. What is the reward for mastering a dungeon? The dungeon armor. However, instead of making it about being the master of the dungeon, it is about completing it X number of times.
So, what we have is that someone who really has mastered the dungeon gets the same reward as someone who may have been carried by his 4 other teammates for doing the same dungeon the same amount of times. That isn’t fair either.
There are many ways to fix this. I would be happy to continue if you like.
Hmm, you are assuming that completing the dungeon takes the exact same amount of time for everyone.
A more similar analogy to school would be:
I, person A, takes 10 minutes to complete my final test.
Johny, person B, takes 2 hours to complete their final test.
Assuming we both passed, we both move on to the next grade. Even though I took 10 minutes and he took 2 hours. It is quite possible he failed and does not pass on.
In the case of the dungeons..
I take 10 minutes to complete a dungeon
Johnny takes 2 hours to complete a dungeon, Johnny dies 30x and has a crazy repair bill, in the end we both get armor. Johnny spends X x 2 hours to get his armor (assuming he doesn’t get better each run) and I get it in X x .16 hours to get my armor. I also did not spend gold on repair bills from dying over and over. Johnny may end up not even completing the dungeon a few times.Long story short. We do not spend the same amount of time if we are on different skill levels to acquire the same amount of armor.
However, I understand your point about being carried. Perhaps you are correct. Dungeons should now be soloable and parties should be removed from the game. (Sarcasm). In all seriousness, how do you suggest they fix the problem of being carried through dungeons to acquire armor that other skilled players earn?
I think that there should be a better measure of “mastering” the dungeon than how many times you have run it.
Secondary objectives that add more difficult and more rewarding content are a possibility. Some way of working a “score” in to the dungeons that calculates something like content cleared vs. time taken to clear and has bonus points for separate objectives would be interesting. Your tokens rewarded could be based on your score. Similarly, you could add a leaderboard that shows the highest 10 scores – which might add the want to repeat the content just for getting your name in the top 10. Now, you have the added bonus of repeat-ability without needing to change much of anything – even rewards.
Definitely a game I wouldn’t be interested in playing. Sounds like you would like WoW raiding a lot.
I have been talking about the mechanics of this game. And the time it takes to program content, which you keep ignoring. Sure time gated content isn’t “optimal” content. A new dungeon or new fractals would be better.
What are people supposed to be doing waiting around for that stuff? Time gated stuff is actually what keeps most MMOs alive, and I don’t think Guild Wars 2 is any exception. The actual mechanics are secondary to the need to find stuff for people to do while waiting for more content. Because no one can create content faster than people can consume it.
Well, one would hope that the content already available has a high level of repeat-ability outside the need for progression.
I agree, that if the “rides” that are in a themepark MMO aren’t fun to ride too many times, then time based progression is a way to artificially enhance the attractiveness of the ride while new ones are built. However, we still have a problem as to why the rides aren’t fun to ride as they are.
For example, why are many many dungeons largely ignored? Perhaps they aren’t fun. Perhaps, they don’t offer the same kind of rewards as other dungeons. But, those are also problems that need to be addressed.
Well, the fractals are quite liked but you can still only play your favorite song so many times, eat your favorite food so many times, etc. Unlike most games which can be finished in 20 hours, MMOs ask people to play for hundreds of hours…or people do whether asked to or not.
So yeah, its’ great to say content should be fun, but there will NEVER be enough fun content that’s infinitely repeatable. No matter how much I liked some missions in Prophecies, and I did, I couldn’t do them dozens of times in a month.
I don’t disagree with you about this.
Personally, I would love to see dungeons be less “linear” and more like the old MUD style dungeons that you can just get lost in. Unfortunately, in this day of Wiki, it would be a much harder task.
Balancing the loot system in this game would go a long way to fixing some of this too.
Ouch! There is no reason to blatantly insult people in a debate! That is cold.
I disagree that these are inherently good and bad. 1. Gated content gives you something to aim for. i.e. levelling up.. You are level 20 and can’t wait to get to level 80. You log in with that goal in mind and anxiously wait that moment when you’ve earned it. Level 80 areas, gear and dungeons are all gated against the lower level, but this isn’t inherently bad. Some may not like it, but some do.
Time based progression is good for two reasons. One it helps keep the economy in check. Two it keeps you working towards something. Having a goal in mind is very important for a lot of players.
I agree, there is no need to be insulting.
I don’t think anyone is arguing that goals are bad. Goals are good. I think dalies are a bad path to a good goal. Mostly because I don’t think they are fun.
Most people here have argued that they are either unobtrusive or that you can ignore them. I don’t see many people saying they are fun. (Edit: Except Jemmi, sorry I was typing this while you posted). I think games should be fun.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Let’s look at a basic scenario. Let’s say you need to kill 10 things to level up. Now, let’s say that those 10 things, no matter how good or efficient you are at killing them, is going to take 1 hour to level up.
Repeating something that you have mastered is boring. It is artificially gating you from something regardless of whether you have mastered it or not.
Another example: school. Let’s say that you spent the same time in class as Johnny. You did well enough to understand the material and went on to the next class or grade. Johnny, however, didn’t understand the material at all. Should he, then, go to the next class or grade level just because he spent the same amount of time as you in class? No.
So, how does this affect MMO’s? Well, let’s look at dungeons for example. What is the reward for mastering a dungeon? The dungeon armor. However, instead of making it about being the master of the dungeon, it is about completing it X number of times.
So, what we have is that someone who really has mastered the dungeon gets the same reward as someone who may have been carried by his 4 other teammates for doing the same dungeon the same amount of times. That isn’t fair either.
There are many ways to fix this. I would be happy to continue if you like.
Hmm, you are assuming that completing the dungeon takes the exact same amount of time for everyone.
A more similar analogy to school would be:
I, person A, takes 10 minutes to complete my final test.
Johny, person B, takes 2 hours to complete their final test.
Assuming we both passed, we both move on to the next grade. Even though I took 10 minutes and he took 2 hours. It is quite possible he failed and does not pass on.
In the case of the dungeons..
I take 10 minutes to complete a dungeon
Johnny takes 2 hours to complete a dungeon, Johnny dies 30x and has a crazy repair bill, in the end we both get armor. Johnny spends X x 2 hours to get his armor (assuming he doesn’t get better each run) and I get it in X x .16 hours to get my armor. I also did not spend gold on repair bills from dying over and over. Johnny may end up not even completing the dungeon a few times.Long story short. We do not spend the same amount of time if we are on different skill levels to acquire the same amount of armor.
However, I understand your point about being carried. Perhaps you are correct. Dungeons should now be soloable and parties should be removed from the game. (Sarcasm). In all seriousness, how do you suggest they fix the problem of being carried through dungeons to acquire armor that other skilled players earn?
I think that there should be a better measure of “mastering” the dungeon than how many times you have run it.
Secondary objectives that add more difficult and more rewarding content are a possibility. Some way of working a “score” in to the dungeons that calculates something like content cleared vs. time taken to clear and has bonus points for separate objectives would be interesting. Your tokens rewarded could be based on your score. Similarly, you could add a leaderboard that shows the highest 10 scores – which might add the want to repeat the content just for getting your name in the top 10. Now, you have the added bonus of repeat-ability without needing to change much of anything – even rewards.
Definitely a game I wouldn’t be interested in playing. Sounds like you would like WoW raiding a lot.
Why wouldn’t you like it?
Let’s look at a basic scenario. Let’s say you need to kill 10 things to level up. Now, let’s say that those 10 things, no matter how good or efficient you are at killing them, is going to take 1 hour to level up.
Repeating something that you have mastered is boring. It is artificially gating you from something regardless of whether you have mastered it or not.
Another example: school. Let’s say that you spent the same time in class as Johnny. You did well enough to understand the material and went on to the next class or grade. Johnny, however, didn’t understand the material at all. Should he, then, go to the next class or grade level just because he spent the same amount of time as you in class? No.
So, how does this affect MMO’s? Well, let’s look at dungeons for example. What is the reward for mastering a dungeon? The dungeon armor. However, instead of making it about being the master of the dungeon, it is about completing it X number of times.
So, what we have is that someone who really has mastered the dungeon gets the same reward as someone who may have been carried by his 4 other teammates for doing the same dungeon the same amount of times. That isn’t fair either.
There are many ways to fix this. I would be happy to continue if you like.
Hmm, you are assuming that completing the dungeon takes the exact same amount of time for everyone.
A more similar analogy to school would be:
I, person A, takes 10 minutes to complete my final test.
Johny, person B, takes 2 hours to complete their final test.
Assuming we both passed, we both move on to the next grade. Even though I took 10 minutes and he took 2 hours. It is quite possible he failed and does not pass on.
In the case of the dungeons..
I take 10 minutes to complete a dungeon
Johnny takes 2 hours to complete a dungeon, Johnny dies 30x and has a crazy repair bill, in the end we both get armor. Johnny spends X x 2 hours to get his armor (assuming he doesn’t get better each run) and I get it in X x .16 hours to get my armor. I also did not spend gold on repair bills from dying over and over. Johnny may end up not even completing the dungeon a few times.Long story short. We do not spend the same amount of time if we are on different skill levels to acquire the same amount of armor.
However, I understand your point about being carried. Perhaps you are correct. Dungeons should now be soloable and parties should be removed from the game. (Sarcasm). In all seriousness, how do you suggest they fix the problem of being carried through dungeons to acquire armor that other skilled players earn?
I think that there should be a better measure of “mastering” the dungeon than how many times you have run it.
Secondary objectives that add more difficult and more rewarding content are a possibility. Some way of working a “score” in to the dungeons that calculates something like content cleared vs. time taken to clear and has bonus points for separate objectives would be interesting. Your tokens rewarded could be based on your score. Similarly, you could add a leaderboard that shows the highest 10 scores – which might add the want to repeat the content just for getting your name in the top 10. Now, you have the added bonus of repeat-ability without needing to change much of anything – even rewards.
Definitely a game I wouldn’t be interested in playing. Sounds like you would like WoW raiding a lot.
Why wouldn’t you like it?
Because I’m past the point in my life where I want to be competitive. 19 years in retail in NYC, top salesman, manager of the year…always pushing, then into publishing, which is even more competitive in a lot of ways. I don’t play games like this to compete. I never did. I play games like this to explore, relax, enjoy a story, have fun…and that’s the difference between us.
I’d rather find something fun and interesting than do a challenging dungeon for loot. It’s just how I am. I’d rather play a game like Skyrim or Dragon Age…or even Guild Wars 1, than a game like Dark Souls, which is apparently more challenging.
I have been talking about the mechanics of this game. And the time it takes to program content, which you keep ignoring. Sure time gated content isn’t “optimal” content. A new dungeon or new fractals would be better.
What are people supposed to be doing waiting around for that stuff? Time gated stuff is actually what keeps most MMOs alive, and I don’t think Guild Wars 2 is any exception. The actual mechanics are secondary to the need to find stuff for people to do while waiting for more content. Because no one can create content faster than people can consume it.
Well, one would hope that the content already available has a high level of repeat-ability outside the need for progression.
I agree, that if the “rides” that are in a themepark MMO aren’t fun to ride too many times, then time based progression is a way to artificially enhance the attractiveness of the ride while new ones are built. However, we still have a problem as to why the rides aren’t fun to ride as they are.
For example, why are many many dungeons largely ignored? Perhaps they aren’t fun. Perhaps, they don’t offer the same kind of rewards as other dungeons. But, those are also problems that need to be addressed.
Well, the fractals are quite liked but you can still only play your favorite song so many times, eat your favorite food so many times, etc. Unlike most games which can be finished in 20 hours, MMOs ask people to play for hundreds of hours…or people do whether asked to or not.
So yeah, its’ great to say content should be fun, but there will NEVER be enough fun content that’s infinitely repeatable. No matter how much I liked some missions in Prophecies, and I did, I couldn’t do them dozens of times in a month.
I don’t disagree with you about this.
Personally, I would love to see dungeons be less “linear” and more like the old MUD style dungeons that you can just get lost in. Unfortunately, in this day of Wiki, it would be a much harder task.
Balancing the loot system in this game would go a long way to fixing some of this too.
It would be doable in this game, I think, with normal zones. Get rid of the hearts and waypoints, and you have an EverQuest dungeon.
Having to get ressed, or otherwise get sent back to the beginning, would encourage people to play in parties that aren’t necessarily 5 man, and add an element of attrition that’s sorely lacking from GW2’s PvE.
User was infracted for being awesome.
I have been talking about the mechanics of this game. And the time it takes to program content, which you keep ignoring. Sure time gated content isn’t “optimal” content. A new dungeon or new fractals would be better.
What are people supposed to be doing waiting around for that stuff? Time gated stuff is actually what keeps most MMOs alive, and I don’t think Guild Wars 2 is any exception. The actual mechanics are secondary to the need to find stuff for people to do while waiting for more content. Because no one can create content faster than people can consume it.
Well, one would hope that the content already available has a high level of repeat-ability outside the need for progression.
I agree, that if the “rides” that are in a themepark MMO aren’t fun to ride too many times, then time based progression is a way to artificially enhance the attractiveness of the ride while new ones are built. However, we still have a problem as to why the rides aren’t fun to ride as they are.
For example, why are many many dungeons largely ignored? Perhaps they aren’t fun. Perhaps, they don’t offer the same kind of rewards as other dungeons. But, those are also problems that need to be addressed.
Well, the fractals are quite liked but you can still only play your favorite song so many times, eat your favorite food so many times, etc. Unlike most games which can be finished in 20 hours, MMOs ask people to play for hundreds of hours…or people do whether asked to or not.
So yeah, its’ great to say content should be fun, but there will NEVER be enough fun content that’s infinitely repeatable. No matter how much I liked some missions in Prophecies, and I did, I couldn’t do them dozens of times in a month.
I don’t disagree with you about this.
Personally, I would love to see dungeons be less “linear” and more like the old MUD style dungeons that you can just get lost in. Unfortunately, in this day of Wiki, it would be a much harder task.
Balancing the loot system in this game would go a long way to fixing some of this too.
It would be doable in this game, I think, with normal zones. Get rid of the hearts and waypoints, and you have an EverQuest dungeon.
Having to get ressed, or otherwise get sent back to the beginning, would encourage people to play in parties that aren’t necessarily 5 man, and add an element of attrition that’s sorely lacking from GW2’s PvE.
I’m all for some harder open world type dungeons. As long as they remain optional and I can do them when I feel like, I’m there.
So, after 6 pages of arguing and complaining, I believe I’ve seen two actual suggestions:
- Change the daily requirements to a weekly that can be completed in one longer session
- Eliminate laurels from dailies
The first is guaranteed to not please everyone. Some people are happy to see players spread out to different zones. Players who like the focus provided by having daily objectives.
The second suggestion might mean putting laurel acquisition into a different type of content. Since we don’t know what that would be, it’s hard to judge the reactions to it — but I’m betting someone, maybe many someones, are going to be angry. The other option would be to eliminate laurels altogether. This would result in FotM being once again the only way to gain Ascended Rings and large guild missions as the only means to gain earrings. Amulets would have to be put into some other form of content. Again, you’re going to have some portion of the player-base cheesed off.
I’m still waiting for a good suggestion.
You forget..
3. Leave it as it is.
That is my personal preference, but let’s see if we can find out other suggestions.
4. Remove dailies and attach laurels to regular achievement points. You gain them for every xth tier completed (such as 5th tier?)
5. Have dailies roll over if they are not completed by the time of reset
6. Have all possible dailies available every day, rather than 9 random ones
7. Have different tiers of dailies Gain silver for completing 1 daily, gain the exp bonus for 3 dailies, gain laurel for completing 5 dailies, gain a 2nd laurel for completing all 9 (or whatever)
8. Allow for a daily type to be repeated, i.e. you can do daily gatherer 5x for daily reward
9. Make dalies more fun. This is subjective, but personally, I think a single substantial task that takes some effort (i.e. complete a specific jumping puzzle, kill a champion, kill a dragon, defend a tower (keep, whatever) in WvW) is better than completing five tedious ones.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
I dislike dailies. Last night my buddy was watching basketball. He finally logged on to GW2 for us to play together. What did we do? Dailies, cause we didn’t have enough time to do dailies and something else.
I am the type of player that gets chained to these things because I don’t want to fall behind on something so easy to do. Between doing the daily we port around getting the meta events for the guaranteed rare. Which I have now received 3 Exotics this week so far.
Anyway, I feel tied to the dailies because of my personality and would rather they were not there in this last implementation. Dailies used to be less obvious in the first implementation. Then you really did just play the game to complete them. The latest implementation feels like a chore now.
9.b. I just thought of this one, and I think it makes it more fun @TooBz. You are assigned a random mission/task each day. i.e. you log in and you receive a mail that there is a loose bandit at x location. You then have to find the location, fight your way through to the bandit and assassinate the bandit leader.
Let’s look at a basic scenario. Let’s say you need to kill 10 things to level up. Now, let’s say that those 10 things, no matter how good or efficient you are at killing them, is going to take 1 hour to level up.
Repeating something that you have mastered is boring. It is artificially gating you from something regardless of whether you have mastered it or not.
Another example: school. Let’s say that you spent the same time in class as Johnny. You did well enough to understand the material and went on to the next class or grade. Johnny, however, didn’t understand the material at all. Should he, then, go to the next class or grade level just because he spent the same amount of time as you in class? No.
So, how does this affect MMO’s? Well, let’s look at dungeons for example. What is the reward for mastering a dungeon? The dungeon armor. However, instead of making it about being the master of the dungeon, it is about completing it X number of times.
So, what we have is that someone who really has mastered the dungeon gets the same reward as someone who may have been carried by his 4 other teammates for doing the same dungeon the same amount of times. That isn’t fair either.
There are many ways to fix this. I would be happy to continue if you like.
Hmm, you are assuming that completing the dungeon takes the exact same amount of time for everyone.
A more similar analogy to school would be:
I, person A, takes 10 minutes to complete my final test.
Johny, person B, takes 2 hours to complete their final test.
Assuming we both passed, we both move on to the next grade. Even though I took 10 minutes and he took 2 hours. It is quite possible he failed and does not pass on.
In the case of the dungeons..
I take 10 minutes to complete a dungeon
Johnny takes 2 hours to complete a dungeon, Johnny dies 30x and has a crazy repair bill, in the end we both get armor. Johnny spends X x 2 hours to get his armor (assuming he doesn’t get better each run) and I get it in X x .16 hours to get my armor. I also did not spend gold on repair bills from dying over and over. Johnny may end up not even completing the dungeon a few times.Long story short. We do not spend the same amount of time if we are on different skill levels to acquire the same amount of armor.
However, I understand your point about being carried. Perhaps you are correct. Dungeons should now be soloable and parties should be removed from the game. (Sarcasm). In all seriousness, how do you suggest they fix the problem of being carried through dungeons to acquire armor that other skilled players earn?
I think that there should be a better measure of “mastering” the dungeon than how many times you have run it.
Secondary objectives that add more difficult and more rewarding content are a possibility. Some way of working a “score” in to the dungeons that calculates something like content cleared vs. time taken to clear and has bonus points for separate objectives would be interesting. Your tokens rewarded could be based on your score. Similarly, you could add a leaderboard that shows the highest 10 scores – which might add the want to repeat the content just for getting your name in the top 10. Now, you have the added bonus of repeat-ability without needing to change much of anything – even rewards.
Definitely a game I wouldn’t be interested in playing. Sounds like you would like WoW raiding a lot.
Why wouldn’t you like it?
Because I’m past the point in my life where I want to be competitive. 19 years in retail in NYC, top salesman, manager of the year…always pushing, then into publishing, which is even more competitive in a lot of ways. I don’t play games like this to compete. I never did. I play games like this to explore, relax, enjoy a story, have fun…and that’s the difference between us.
I’d rather find something fun and interesting than do a challenging dungeon for loot. It’s just how I am. I’d rather play a game like Skyrim or Dragon Age…or even Guild Wars 1, than a game like Dark Souls, which is apparently more challenging.
But, it would allow for competition without needing every player to be competitive. You yourself tout that the beauty of ascended gear is that you don’t need it. How would this be any different?
In either case, it isn’t really worth discussing the specifics as it was just a suggestion. I think the point is that competition would need to be optional. Which I agree with.
The reason this is an issue is they attached laurels to dailies. I like dailies the way there were. I don’t like the entire system around ascended gear. I think it was very poorly implemented and thought out and attaching it to dailies/monthlies and guild missions is horrible problem solving by Arena.
Seri Kali [Me] – 80 Necromancer -Yak’s Bend
But, it would allow for competition without needing every player to be competitive. You yourself tout that the beauty of ascended gear is that you don’t need it. How would this be any different?
In either case, it isn’t really worth discussing. I think the point is that competition would need to be optional. Which I agree with.
Because when you make something like that competitive, it changes the nature of the entire player base. People start looking at things like gear scores. Things become more elitist. People in your guild want to do stuff faster, to get more, so they don’t have to do it as much.
Right now, when I do a dungeon, I’m HAPPY to take my time. Do you know I never knew about the hidden event in AC? I saw it today for the first time. I kill stuff instead of running past stuff.
By encouraging people to do things faster, or more skilled, you’re taking the fun out of it for me. Because I like a nice, relaxed, leisurely pace…and it wouldn’t stay like that. Eventually I’d just stop doing dungeons.
I didn’t speed farm or FFF in Guild Wars 1 for a reason.