Guild Wars 2

I would like to outline one issue i have with GW2 regarding it’s gear system and Ascended gear in particular. I don’t want this post to become a rant, so i will try my best to stay constructive.

GW2 offers great variety of customization in gear and build department. There are 18 stat combos available for armor, jewelry and weapons, around 64 runes and around 63 sigils in this game. Now, on paper it looks like GW2 was designed with as much freedom for players to choose their builds and play styles as possible in mind. Sounds great, right? Unfortunately in reality it’s not that great. Right now gear system feels cumbersome and clumsy, requires a lot of micromanagement on many levels. I assume everyone who played different game modes in GW2, like PvE and, especially, WvW, familiar with the usual routine you need to go through with in order to set your toon up. And when you done, you end up with multiple sets of armor, jewelry and weapons in your bags/bank and no gear manager, no build manager, no dual spec. And if you would like to try another rune set or sigil… well you’ll have to either replace existing ones or craft yet another set of armor. It’s worth mentioning that whole this process is not cheap either. So, in short, i think it’s fair to say that currently whole system is somewhat inconvenient to use and user unfriendly.

Now, on top of that, we now have ascended gear. I have 4 daggers, 3 shortbows, 4 pistols, 3 swords on my thief. I’am a lazy one, that’s why i have so few :P. I have a guildie who have 8 sets of armor on his warrior. And that’s just one character. I have 4 level 80 ones and i like to play them all. So i’am wondering if it’s “working as intended”, if Anet really expects and wants us to craft all this and pile it up in our bags? Is Anet pushing us to choose and stick with one, main, toon and work with it, gear it, with one build, one game mode (PvE/WvW)? Instead of being able to change our builds and playstyles in a matter of seconds and instead of trying new things, experimenting? Like, is this Anet’s game vision as of right now, that’s where they want GW2 to be? Or is this system is currently in some transitional phase and some tweaks and fixes are coming? Do they recognize it as an issue at all or this design intentional and it’s fine in their book? And how the rest of the community feels about it?

So far i’ve been mostly complaining and criticizing, so i just want to throw in an idea about possible fix. What if sigils and runes instead of being essentially consumables would be, instead, unlockables for armor and weapons? You apply a sigil to a weapon and that sigil becomes available for this weapon to choose from a drop-down menu. Same goes for runes. And what if insignias and inscriptions would work in the same way? You craft an inscription and you apply it to your armor piece and it becomes available for you to choose from, at any given time, when you’re out of combat? This would improve quality of life for players greatly, while maintaining some of those element’s gold sink potential. I’am not saying that this is how it should be or that it’s the ideal solution, it’s just a food for thought, something to work around with, nothing more.

Obviously i don’t expect to have someone from dev team to comment on that, but at least it would be interesting to hear ideas and opinions from community.

Thank you for reading this wall of text, that is, if you did, i tried to put it as laconically as i could right now.

ANet expects all PvE players to craft Berserker gear if they want to get ascended armor.
No need for anything else right now anyways. So alt least for PvE, variety is not a problem.

The problem is that then you wouldn’t have the endless item sink that is soulbound gear. ANet wants you to create new weapons and new armor everytime you want to try a new build. They want you to destroy sigils and runes and replace them with other things. It’s an item sink. Otherwise, items like runes of divinity would be dirt cheap.

I don’t agree with this, because I think variety is great and has more potential to keep the game interesting to me than grinding out a single build. But I’m a minority in this.

TooBz.3065:

It’s an item sink. Otherwise, items like runes of divinity would be dirt cheap.

If so, isn’t it silly to deny players quality of life improvements only for that reason? Not like it’s such a huge gold sink anyway. Surely Anet could find a work around here, create a new gold sink etc.

I have only one set of armor and weapons. They provide well-rounded abilities. When I want to reconfigure my “build” I pay the 3.5 silver and change my skills around. It works out just fine in PvE, PvP, WvW, and dungeons. But hey! I am not a min\maxer or speed farmer or the like. I play to have fun and I don’t want to be bothered with “8 sets of armor”, etc. And yeah, the fact that there is no gear manager is a good thing as far as I am concerned.

It would probably be easier to just give us “perfect” salvage kits, similar to the ones from gw1. Then we could simply salvage the rune/sigil/whatever from the upgrade slot without destroying the item and move them around as needed.

Wait why do you have so many extra sets of gear?

I don’t really understand. At most I could see 2 sets of armor (condition focus, power focus)

But having more than one set of weapons seems like a self inflicted problem to me.

Ahlen.7591:

Wait why do you have so many extra sets of gear?

I don’t really understand. At most I could see 2 sets of armor (condition focus, power focus)

But having more than one set of weapons seems like a self inflicted problem to me.

WvW requires different set of skills/stats/runes/sigils than PvE. Just as an example, you can be tanky guardian, healing guardian, dps oriented guardian etc. If you play only PvE you’re probably all set having only berserker set, but if you play both, and if you enjoy trying different things, playing your class best you can, then you’re kinda doomed to have multiple gear and weapon sets.

Besides, as i pointed out in OP, looking at how many stat combos, runes and sigils GW2 have, one would think that game was designed to be played that way, with great variety in mind. But at the same time, at the moment, it lacks tools to make this experiences smooth and convenient. Plus ascended gear essentially have quiet opposite concept behind it, as far as i see it, and promotes the “stick to one build and one toon” design, as opposed to variety. Much, like, for example WoW. Only WoW doesn’t have all that stat combos and runes, and do not require you to grind and have more than 2 weapons for your main character.

I agree the current gear situation doesn’t really eork if you play different builds. I reccomend they add a charachter bound stat unlock system, maybe you can only access it in specific places, and it may use some high end items like bloodstone bricks. But, it needs to be done. The gearing system is blocking horizontal progression, experimentation and playing different game types

I was thinking, and, tbh, whole this situation at the moment looks like initially game was designed by one group of people who favored variety and playing multiple toons, and then some kind of take over took place and another bunch of people started to do things their way (ascended gear), in completely opposing direction to previous one. Now game consists of bits and peaces and these bits and peaces do not connect very well with each other. Maybe they have bad communication between departments in AN, or something like that.

I want more cosmetic loot.

All cosmetic loot tied to gold

Cant play how I want, playing something else atm.

despite their promise you are still forced to grind fractals to get the material for the ascended backpiece. mind boggling.

Sanduskel.1850:

despite their promise you are still forced to grind fractals to get the material for the ascended backpiece. mind boggling.

Well the first backpack isn;t a grind, since you’ll get it by making your way up to level 40s, but afterwards, incase you want different stat or another for an alt, yeah, then it becomes tedious.

Any game that puts character stats on gear and uses a gear progression system is unfriendly to build experimentation and the creation of alts. The amount of gear also matters. The more gear pieces there are, the more difficult alting and experimentation become. The degree to which you minimize stats on gear is the degree to which you make it easier for players to gear alts and to use multiple builds.

In GW, I could buy one set of armor and 3-4 headpieces (each with a different stat and rune on it). This sufficed for just about any build I cared to try. In GW2, my warrior alone has six armor pieces, 5 trinkets, and 9 weapons. That’s just for berserker stats.

When you design a complicated gear stat system, you are catering to one play-style. When you build a minimalistic gear system, you are catering to a different play style.

ANet took a shot at the mainstream market by using the system they designed. At launch, the impact of that choice was minimized by the ease of obtaining BiS gear pieces. Now, that feature has been replaced. Ascended gear was the second concession to the demographic that prefers stats on gear plus progression. It remains to be seen if there will be a third concession.

I’d really like to see ANet throw a bone to the demographic that wants to alt and experiment. However, this would be a radical shift in game direction. The idea that phys expressed is one way to do so, and it’s a shift I’d love to see.

@IndigoSundown.5419
I don’t necessarily see the connection between amount of gear and stats on it and catering to one style, one toon. Take almost every other popular MMORPG out there with vertical gear progression (WoW, Tera, Aion, SWTOR) and their gear system is way more simplistic and player friendly than what we currently have in GW2, they don’t leave any choice, it’s clear what kind of gear each character should run, there’s little room to experimentation there, if any at all. In GW2 it’s quite opposite, there are many possible choices, but at the same time, those choices are somewhat restricted, gated, made hard to make, by the lack of tools of management, by the over-sophistication of the whole system and, as a final nail, now by ascended gear. The example of how, more or less, in ideal it should work is, actually, already in the game, just look how it all works in s/tPvP.

@wasted

I agree that many other games’ gear schemes offer fewer alternatives. There is tank gear, healer gear and dps gear. DPS gear is often broken up into caster dps and physical dps. In the case of some classes, that’s a no-brainer (mages) but for others, not so much. A druid, for instance, could be melee or spell-based dps, a tank or a healer. Paladins could tank, dps or heal. I remember being told that my paladin healer was now the back-up off-tank and having to go through the dungeon-raid tier process to catch up. It was a pain.

I should have included the pursuit of BiS in my analysis. After all, it’s not that difficult to experiment in GW2 if you are willing to do so with green gear. Once you throw in BiS considerations, however, that goes out the window. It’s the same in those other games. Even if the gear choices are fewer, the road to BiS is a lengthy grind and in those games it’s required for effectiveness, unless you’re willing not to progress.

If ascended gear (and infusions) could be obtained from
- dungeon tokens
- wvw badges
- laurels (besides accessories)
- fractal relics (besides accessories)
- guild commendations
- karma
in addition to separate crafting

how great that would be…

Charak.9761:

Sanduskel.1850:

despite their promise you are still forced to grind fractals to get the material for the ascended backpiece. mind boggling.

Well the first backpack isn;t a grind, since you’ll get it by making your way up to level 40s, but afterwards, incase you want different stat or another for an alt, yeah, then it becomes tedious.

why must i be forced to grind fractals for some rng drop?

Sanduskel.1850:

Charak.9761:

Sanduskel.1850:

despite their promise you are still forced to grind fractals to get the material for the ascended backpiece. mind boggling.

Well the first backpack isn;t a grind, since you’ll get it by making your way up to level 40s, but afterwards, incase you want different stat or another for an alt, yeah, then it becomes tedious.

why must i be forced to grind fractals for some rng drop?

its not rng drop, the back piece is created through relics that drop off bosses/chest. Atm, yes, the higher fractal rewards are severely lacking, but that may change come the Fractal update in November or December this year.

Charak.9761:

Sanduskel.1850:

Charak.9761:

Sanduskel.1850:

despite their promise you are still forced to grind fractals to get the material for the ascended backpiece. mind boggling.

Well the first backpack isn;t a grind, since you’ll get it by making your way up to level 40s, but afterwards, incase you want different stat or another for an alt, yeah, then it becomes tedious.

why must i be forced to grind fractals for some rng drop?

its not rng drop, the back piece is created through relics that drop off bosses/chest. Atm, yes, the higher fractal rewards are severely lacking, but that may change come the Fractal update in November or December this year.

wrong….the vial of essence is a random drop. it is mandatory to make an ascended backpiece. stop defending the indefensible.

Sanduskel.1850:

Charak.9761:

Sanduskel.1850:

Charak.9761:

Sanduskel.1850:

despite their promise you are still forced to grind fractals to get the material for the ascended backpiece. mind boggling.

Well the first backpack isn;t a grind, since you’ll get it by making your way up to level 40s, but afterwards, incase you want different stat or another for an alt, yeah, then it becomes tedious.

why must i be forced to grind fractals for some rng drop?

its not rng drop, the back piece is created through relics that drop off bosses/chest. Atm, yes, the higher fractal rewards are severely lacking, but that may change come the Fractal update in November or December this year.

wrong….the vial of essence is a random drop. it is mandatory to make an ascended backpiece. stop defending the indefensible.

Shards are more common, you can break 1 shard into 9 vials, or 1 glob into 3 vial. You only need 1 vial for the recipe, it’s highly likely you’ll get them by leveling up in fractal. Don’t just do lvl10 dailies, you’re hurting yourself.

Qin.7325:

If ascended gear (and infusions) could be obtained from
- dungeon tokens
- wvw badges
- laurels (besides accessories)
- fractal relics (besides accessories)
- guild commendations
- karma
in addition to separate crafting

how great that would be…

Ascended gear would loose its point then.

The only reason ascended gear exists in the game is to please the elitist hardcore crowd of farmers. The whole point of it is to make people grind for it. Colin confirmed that in Matt visuals interview.

In any case because GW2 is based on promises to the GW1 playerbase ascended gear will always be an issue.

Putting stat on armor was the first mistake or not if you go the vertical progression

IndigoSundown.5419:

@wasted

A druid, for instance, could be melee or spell-based dps, a tank or a healer.

Yes, but what i meant to say is, no matter what kind of Druid you are, the choice of gear is always clear. Same for your Pally, one type of gear for your healing needs and another for tanking, but just one for each, not a whole bunch of different gear sets without specific distinctions for roles. You choose a role, in case of your Pally 2 roles, and your path is set, you’re grinding raids and dungeons for your gear. It can be fun. Now compare it to what we have in GW2, not only it will probably in the end take longer to grind for all the stuff you would want, but also it’s not particularly fun, it’s not like you’re going to raid with your friends and guildies. You will be just grinding the kitten out of the game for mats and then craft, craft, craft. It’s like GW2 is trying to sit on 2/3/4 chairs at once, but fails to land it’s massive kitten on even one. Pardon my analogy.

Imho this is what guild wars 2 needs:

1. A database for unlocked armour/weapon skins and armour/weapon/trinket stats

• No more using transmutation stones to get the skin you like on the weapon you like, every time.
• From now on, when you buy an armour, you can buy a “Template stone” (price in gem store equivalent to transmutation stone). This Template stone allows you to save the skin, stats and sigil of the particular armour into your account and will become accessible on all characters, for no further cost. You can also store runes, sigils and trinkets this way. Then you can create your own items, using the Template Menu, I think of this much in terms of the PvP locker, combining any stats/skins and upgrade components that you have stored in the locker.

• Templates: from now on you can save a certain set-up, albeit cosmetic or practical (for example “Dungeon gear”, “Support gear”, “Staff build”), which automatically loads:
  – your armour (stats, skins and runes)
  – your weapons (stats, skins and sigils)
  – your trinkets (stats)
  – your skills (heal, utility, elite)

2. The first suggestion means that from now on armour/weapons and so forth you consume using the Template stones will disappear into the Template storage and can be summoned by opening it up and selecting the gear/stats/runes. The summoned versions will be soulbound, but the armour will be accessible on your other characters aswell, though not tradeable or salvageable.

There you go. No more buying gear and having no space for it, no more having to farm gear for one character and then for the next ones too. Efficient and simple.

Sirendor.1394:

1. A database for unlocked armour/weapon skins and armour/weapon/trinket stats

• No more using transmutation stones to get the skin you like on the weapon you like, every time.
• From now on, when you buy an armour, you can buy a “Template stone” (price in gem store equivalent to transmutation stone). This Template stone allows you to save the skin, stats and sigil of the particular armour into your account and will become accessible on all characters, for no further cost. You can also store runes, sigils and trinkets this way. Then you can create your own items, using the Template Menu, I think of this much in terms of the PvP locker, combining any stats/skins and upgrade components that you have stored in the locker.

• Templates: from now on you can save a certain set-up, albeit cosmetic or practical (for example “Dungeon gear”, “Support gear”, “Staff build”), which automatically loads:
  – your armour (stats, skins and runes)
  – your weapons (stats, skins and sigils)
  – your trinkets (stats)
  – your skills (heal, utility, elite)

2. The first suggestion means that from now on armour/weapons and so forth you consume using the Template stones will disappear into the Template storage and can be summoned by opening it up and selecting the gear/stats/runes. The summoned versions will be soulbound, but the armour will be accessible on your other characters aswell, though not tradeable or salvageable.

There you go. No more buying gear and having no space for it, no more having to farm gear for one character and then for the next ones too. Efficient and simple.

Hmm, very neat idea, would be awesome if they would implement it.

Charak.9761:

Sanduskel.1850:

despite their promise you are still forced to grind fractals to get the material for the ascended backpiece. mind boggling.

Well the first backpack isn;t a grind, since you’ll get it by making your way up to level 40s, but afterwards, incase you want different stat or another for an alt, yeah, then it becomes tedious.

I’d call making your way up to level 40 a pretty big grind. Assuming each run takes 90 minutes, that’s 60 hours of Fractals for a piece of gear.

This game is a grind. There is no enjoying it the way YOU want to unless you’re satisfied with reaching a sub-par ending in this game and subside to the fact that you’re forced to take part in things you may not want to.

Wanna craft ascended stuff? You’re forced to get dragonite ore which can only be attained from world boss events.

Wanna run your favorite dungeon over and over? Can’t because of diminishing returns.

…and if you want your precursor, forget it. You’ll have to farm hardcore for 2-3 months just to get the precursor unless you’re one of the random lucky individuals that this game decides to bless with its bad rng mechanics. ..and if getting a legendary isn’t even a goal then playing this game is pointless because everything you do in this game only has one purpose. Grind. The only thing that doesn’t is WvW, and WvW is only fun if you’re in the winning zerg.

I only use beserker but having to craft so many weapons for alts and doubling up on gs’s, axe’s and so on because I use undead sigils for arah and night sigils for other dungeons is kind of a pain. If only legendaries had the option to toggle sigils aswell as stats.

Sanduskel.1850:

despite their promise you are still forced to grind fractals to get the material for the ascended backpiece. mind boggling.

You can get an Ascended backpiece using only 1 Vial of Condensed Mists Essence. Run low level fractals until you get this and thats all you need from fractals. Use one of the recipes to make a Quiver or Book Ascended back piece. There you go, ascended stats on a backpiece.
Oh, the fractals backpiece skin? Why should you have the skin handed to you?
It, and all other fractals skins, should remain exclusive to fractals and the people willing to go get them.

TooBz.3065:

The problem is that then you wouldn’t have the endless item sink that is soulbound gear. ANet wants you to create new weapons and new armor everytime you want to try a new build. They want you to destroy sigils and runes and replace them with other things. It’s an item sink. Otherwise, items like runes of divinity would be dirt cheap.

I don’t agree with this, because I think variety is great and has more potential to keep the game interesting to me than grinding out a single build. But I’m a minority in this.

Then here is a simple fix, Runes and sigils would be soul-bound only.

As long alts exist, demands will go high. There is a need for a collection of runes.

wasted.6817:

Sirendor.1394:

1. A database for unlocked armour/weapon skins and armour/weapon/trinket stats

• No more using transmutation stones to get the skin you like on the weapon you like, every time.
• From now on, when you buy an armour, you can buy a “Template stone” (price in gem store equivalent to transmutation stone). This Template stone allows you to save the skin, stats and sigil of the particular armour into your account and will become accessible on all characters, for no further cost. You can also store runes, sigils and trinkets this way. Then you can create your own items, using the Template Menu, I think of this much in terms of the PvP locker, combining any stats/skins and upgrade components that you have stored in the locker.

• Templates: from now on you can save a certain set-up, albeit cosmetic or practical (for example “Dungeon gear”, “Support gear”, “Staff build”), which automatically loads:
  – your armour (stats, skins and runes)
  – your weapons (stats, skins and sigils)
  – your trinkets (stats)
  – your skills (heal, utility, elite)

2. The first suggestion means that from now on armour/weapons and so forth you consume using the Template stones will disappear into the Template storage and can be summoned by opening it up and selecting the gear/stats/runes. The summoned versions will be soulbound, but the armour will be accessible on your other characters aswell, though not tradeable or salvageable.

There you go. No more buying gear and having no space for it, no more having to farm gear for one character and then for the next ones too. Efficient and simple.

Hmm, very neat idea, would be awesome if they would implement it.

:) Just a suggestion, mind you. It might be a lot harder to implement than it appears at first sight, but Guild Wars 1 had a similar system for PvP, letting you create PvP armour through selecting ‘gear’, ‘skin’, ‘upgrade components’ (the GW1 gear system was slightly different than GW2’s, for example no special gear stats such as power/precision/toughness/vitality…).