Guild Wars 2

Loumy.7841:

Ryuujin.8236:

Can someone just clarify this for me: What changed?

People are saying the game is no longer fun, but the game that existed before the patch is still here. They simply added new content.

“They simply added new content” o_O

Well they did. They added a few new rings and back slot items (Let’s be clear there is no ascended armour or jewellery, ie. most of your gear slots) that have stats a few points higher than the rest which house infusions which are needed to participate in level 10+ fractals.

Having an extra 5-15 stats points isn’t going to turn you into a demigod or render someone immortal, and you only need infusions if you do level 10 fractals or higher. If you hate grinding fractals then you don’t need the infusion anyway, if you do like grinding fractals what’s the big deal? – You’re doing what you enjoy xD.

The triforge amulet has far higher stats than any other item in the game, even more than ascended items yet nobody has batted an eyelid to it. Why the out-rage about ascended gear but not a peep about the triforge?

Players who are talking about a grind or treadmill are referring to what the game will become.

Xpiher.5209:

Ryuujin.8236:

Can someone just clarify this for me: What changed?

People are saying the game is no longer fun, but the game that existed before the patch is still here. They simply added new content.

If the old content was fun, why are you trying to do things that are un-fun? Why not stick to the stuff you find to be fun? (I personally hate sPvP so I don’t sPvP. Problem solved)

I already explained it to you. Grinding on a treadmill for hours a day to get the best gear, that will be required for future content, has killed all motivation to play, thus making the rest of the game not fun.

can’t seem to find this ‘required for future content’ info. care to share a link?

Fozzik.1742:

Please find me the person who thinks it is fun to be ineffective in groups, to be useless in dungeons, and to get stomped repeatedly in WvW? Find me the person who enjoys sitting for hours trying to find a group? In what way is it fun to get left out of new content or the best rewards?

Part of having fun in a game is being effective and useful and sometimes successful. You can’t do any of those things if you are left far behind by the stat treadmill. You won’t get groups and you will be largely ineffective in PvE content. You won’t be useful and will constantly get defeated in WvW. This game requires gear and stats in order to be effective and successful…and ArenaNet just added a huge grind to that requirement with their new tiers of gear and infusions.

I’m sorry you don’t understand what’s happening, how the game works, or what other people are saying, and that it causes you to be annoyed.

We’re TRYING to play the game for fun. ArenaNet is requiring a stat grind of ever-growing proportions in order to reach that fun.

This. Guild Wars 2 is an MMO. What this means is that the quality of the experience directly comes from your ability to interact and play with others. Your ability to interact and play with others is considerably hampered when 90% are locked into endlessly repeating a dungeon that you are unable to access.

This isn’t a solo RPG that is designed to entertain without the presence of other people. It isn’t a network game where I need to organize a time to get together with friends so that we can play “our way.” And it most certainly is not a game designed to engage you as you tool around on yet another player vacated map.

I find it interesting that the some of the people that complain about a game “dying” as soon as there is a downturn in population are so quick to tell others to go play by themselves. You would think that they would have some insight as to what that is like.

Ryuujin.8236:

Can someone just clarify this for me: What changed?

People are saying the game is no longer fun, but the game that existed before the patch is still here. They simply added new content.

If the old content was fun, why are you trying to do things that are un-fun? Why not stick to the stuff you find to be fun? (I personally hate sPvP so I don’t sPvP. Problem solved, if you don’t like fractals or the karka, don’t do them)

To use the analogue already posted here some times: people who are not happy with the new tier of items are vegetarians. They come to a restaurant who promised them 100% veg food, ordered some meal, started to enjoy the soja steaks and tofu rolls.

But now the chief began to cook meat in the same kitchen. So all the so tasty veg things have this hated meat flavor on them.

Nothing disappeared, all the great things a still there. But the new smell ruins all the fun nevertheless.

El Hefe.2814:

Fozzik.1742:

Please find me the person who thinks it is fun to be ineffective in groups, to be useless in dungeons, and to get stomped repeatedly in WvW? Find me the person who enjoys sitting for hours trying to find a group? In what way is it fun to get left out of new content or the best rewards?

Part of having fun in a game is being effective and useful and sometimes successful. You can’t do any of those things if you are left far behind by the stat treadmill. You won’t get groups and you will be largely ineffective in PvE content. You won’t be useful and will constantly get defeated in WvW. This game requires gear and stats in order to be effective and successful…and ArenaNet just added a huge grind to that requirement with their new tiers of gear and infusions.

I’m sorry you don’t understand what’s happening, how the game works, or what other people are saying, and that it causes you to be annoyed.

We’re TRYING to play the game for fun. ArenaNet is requiring a stat grind of ever-growing proportions in order to reach that fun.

you call it grind because you don’t find it fun. some people do. some people are really really dedicated and like to do challenging content. that’s what the fotm dungeon offers. it also lets people jump in and try it and an easier, less dedicated level. in other games Raiding is the endgame. Guild Wars 2 offers other things for ‘end-game’ content. They also now offer more challenging content that those who are dedicated can sink their teeth into.

Nobody is complaining about challenging content. Getting +300 stats to beat the +300 stat mobs is not challenging. That’s a delusion.

El Hefe.2814:

dalendria.3762:

I bought this game because I believed it would focus on fun. Here is one of the statements that encouraged me to buy it and continue playing it until the recently.

Colin Johanson, Lead Content Designer

“The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

so you have a problem with legendaries? they aren’t required.

Until the patch….

I had no problems with legendary items. They had the same stats as exotics. So it was my choice, if I went after them or not. Never felt like I had to pursue it and was perfectly happy with the exotic pieces I decided would create the look I wanted.

Post patch….

Legendary weapons are no longer purely optional. Arenanet made it clear they are bumping the stats up to be on par with Ascended. They will now have better stats than my Exotic weapons.

So unless I do not care about falling behind in the game (gear treadmill approach), I have to get them. No longer a choice unless you consider avoiding content and being outmatched due to not having max stats a choice.

I played WOW for 4 years. I had to skip certain end game content because I refused to be forced to grind for each new tier of gear. I paid a monthly subscription but could not participate in content simply because I did not have the “new hotness” gear. I quit WOW and thought I finally found a MMO, GW2, that did not support that approach. I was right until the 11/15 patch.

El Hefe.2814:

Xpiher.5209:

Ryuujin.8236:

Can someone just clarify this for me: What changed?

People are saying the game is no longer fun, but the game that existed before the patch is still here. They simply added new content.

If the old content was fun, why are you trying to do things that are un-fun? Why not stick to the stuff you find to be fun? (I personally hate sPvP so I don’t sPvP. Problem solved)

I already explained it to you. Grinding on a treadmill for hours a day to get the best gear, that will be required for future content, has killed all motivation to play, thus making the rest of the game not fun.

can’t seem to find this ‘required for future content’ info. care to share a link?

Ok

Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion, but we feel it’s important to strive to satisfy the basic needs of our players sooner rather than later…

So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content[that content being agony system].

This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features.

That clear enough for you https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

dalendria.3762:

El Hefe.2814:

dalendria.3762:

I bought this game because I believed it would focus on fun. Here is one of the statements that encouraged me to buy it and continue playing it until the recently.

Colin Johanson, Lead Content Designer

“The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

so you have a problem with legendaries? they aren’t required.

Until the patch….

I had no problems with legendary items. They had the same stats as exotics. So it was my choice, if I went after them or not. Never felt like I had to pursue it and was perfectly happy with the exotic pieces I decided would create the look I wanted.

Post patch….

Legendary weapons are no longer purely optional. Arenanet made it clear they are bumping the stats up to be on par with Ascended. They will now have better stats than my Exotic weapons.

So unless I do not care about falling behind in the game (gear treadmill approach), I have to get them. No longer a choice unless you consider avoiding content and being outmatched due to not having max stats a choice.

I played WOW for 4 years. I had to skip certain end game content because I refused to be forced to grind for each new tier of gear. I paid a monthly subscription but could not participate in content simply because I did not have the “new hotness” gear. I quit WOW and thought I finally found a MMO, GW2, that did not support that approach. I was right until the 11/15 patch.

so a legendary weapon is required now? for which content?

El Hefe.2814:

im sick of all this kitten on these forums. if you guys feel like your grinding or being forced to do something then don’t do it. the premise is really simple. Play the game for fun. have fun with the game. when you stop having fun take a break. you aren’t being forced to farm/grind or whatever else you want to call it. it’s not required to do anything in the game. so just remember it’s a game, have fun. if your not having fun, take a break. you already bought the game and it will be here when you’re ready to have fun again.

Sorry, can’t play the game for fun anymore.

My regular dungeon-group has more time than me. So far, this was not an issue. But already they have to do pointless stuff (FotM on lower-than possible level, old dungeons) if they want me to join. Feels like holding them back.

So, I’ll have to either PUG (I’m not fond of that) or stop doing dungeons. 5-man content was always what I loved most about MMOs.

So, I can’t play the game for fun anymore because excessive gating has made the most fun aspect anti-social for a dedicated casual like me.

I play the game, I am having fun, and I don’t need convincing otherwise.

Just because some of you don’t appear to be having fun, doesn’t mean that you have a moral obligation to convince me to share your opinion.

Xpiher.5209:

El Hefe.2814:

Xpiher.5209:

Ryuujin.8236:

Can someone just clarify this for me: What changed?

People are saying the game is no longer fun, but the game that existed before the patch is still here. They simply added new content.

If the old content was fun, why are you trying to do things that are un-fun? Why not stick to the stuff you find to be fun? (I personally hate sPvP so I don’t sPvP. Problem solved)

I already explained it to you. Grinding on a treadmill for hours a day to get the best gear, that will be required for future content, has killed all motivation to play, thus making the rest of the game not fun.

can’t seem to find this ‘required for future content’ info. care to share a link?

Ok

Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion, but we feel it’s important to strive to satisfy the basic needs of our players sooner rather than later…

So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content[that content being agony system].

This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features.

That clear enough for you https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

still looking for the required part. this is required to have fun?

Jornophelanthas.1475:

I play the game, I am having fun, and I don’t need convincing otherwise.

Just because some of you don’t appear to be having fun, doesn’t mean that you have a moral obligation to convince me to share your opinion.

Right back at cha.

Fozzik.1742:

Please find me the person who thinks it is fun to be ineffective in groups, to be useless in dungeons, and to get stomped repeatedly in WvW? Find me the person who enjoys sitting for hours trying to find a group? In what way is it fun to get left out of new content or the best rewards?

Part of having fun in a game is being effective and useful and sometimes successful. You can’t do any of those things if you are left far behind by the stat treadmill. You won’t get groups and you will be largely ineffective in PvE content. You won’t be useful and will constantly get defeated in WvW. This game requires gear and stats in order to be effective and successful…and ArenaNet just added a huge grind to that requirement with their new tiers of gear and infusions.

I’m sorry you don’t understand what’s happening, how the game works, or what other people are saying, and that it causes you to be annoyed.

We’re TRYING to play the game for fun. ArenaNet is requiring a stat grind of ever-growing proportions in order to reach that fun.

This is completely and utterly untrue.

Level to 80, buy cheap rares off the trader and you can do anything in the game. You don’t even need exotics.

You do NOT need even exotics

There is no content that is off-limits to you as a fresh 80 with nearly free rares from the trader.

Stop being emo-kittens.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

I play the game, I am having fun, and I don’t need convincing otherwise.

Just because some of you don’t appear to be having fun, doesn’t mean that you have a moral obligation to convince me to share your opinion.

We aren’t trying to convince you. We are trying to convince ANET that they messed up. If you play MMOs for gear treadmill and progression then I have to ask, why did you buy GW2 in the first place?

xiv.7136:

There is no content that is off-limits to you as a fresh 80 with nearly free rares from the trader.

There isn’t any YET. New content will require you to be geared in agony resistance to do it.

Xpiher.5209:

There isn’t any YET. New content will require you to be geared in agony resistance to do it.

So you’re concerned about something that hasn’t happened, that hasn’t been announced and is clearly not going to happen?

I’m concerned all the bananas in the world will turn into spiders that eat everyone.

Because I am an expert in things that have literally never happened.

Galen Grey.4709:

Xpiher.5209:

I’m not doing it, but not playing the game anymore. The game is no longer fun, to me, with the introduction of this patch. Is that so hard to understand?

honestly yes! provided you found the game fun before this patch that is. This patch didnt change any of the content that was there before (okey some class balances here and there) just added new stuff.

The patch implicitly changed the old content.

Part of what made Orr fun for me (other than playing an overpowered, unbalanced warrior in dire need of being nerfed) what the fact that there were so many players, that there was so much going on. Orr seemed pretty empty yesterday. Most waypoints were contested.

Orr hasn’t changed?

I like the old dungeons. Well, if they’re not bugged. I like to play with guildies. However, it’s becoming harder and harder to make them to go to AC for the tokens for the sword. And understandably so. SO, if I want to go to AC, I have to resort to PUGing it, which is far less fun for me.

Old dungeons have not changed?

Think again. Some things are changed if the context in which they exist is changed.

Galen Grey.4709:

If you find the added stuff unfun whats the problem with ignoring it?
do you think without ascended items you’ll fail at PvE?

Eventually, the new gear will be needed. It’s been stated that at a certain point, progression through FotM is impossible without it. In case you want to join your friends who go there, you have to farm it, too.

Galen Grey.4709:

do you think without ascended items everyone will kill you in WvW?

I like to know that I’m doing the best I can in order to help my team. Not anymore. I’m not doing the best I can. Others are farming for better gear to win in WvW but I don’t, because I hate grind. I feel like letting my team down (a little bit). Bad emotion tied to the game.

Galen Grey.4709:

whats the real issue why this patch made what was fun before suddenly be unfun?

As stated above, it’s all about context.

Xpiher.5209:

Jornophelanthas.1475:

I play the game, I am having fun, and I don’t need convincing otherwise.

Just because some of you don’t appear to be having fun, doesn’t mean that you have a moral obligation to convince me to share your opinion.

We aren’t trying to convince you. We are trying to convince ANET that they messed up. If you play MMOs for gear treadmill and progression then I have to ask, why did you buy GW2 in the first place?

I don’t play for infinite gear progression. I play for exploration, for the story, for the general immersion, for the jumping puzzles, and for the thrill of achievement. These are things Guild Wars 2 offer me.

Not that that is really anyone’s business. I’m only saying this because I don’t want you, or anyone, to put words in my mouth or to deliberately misinterpret my opinion, just in order to invalidate it. I will not be your strawman argument.

xiv.7136:

Xpiher.5209:

There isn’t any YET. New content will require you to be geared in agony resistance to do it.

So you’re concerned about something that hasn’t happened, that hasn’t been announced and is clearly not going to happen?

Sigh.

When the new gear was announced, it was said that there would be a point beyond which you won’t be able to advance without it. You choose to ignore what’s been said and written just so you can pretend that what troubles others is a non-issue. No good style.

phooka.4295:

xiv.7136:

Xpiher.5209:

There isn’t any YET. New content will require you to be geared in agony resistance to do it.

So you’re concerned about something that hasn’t happened, that hasn’t been announced and is clearly not going to happen?

Sigh.

When the new gear was announced, it was said that there would be a point beyond which you won’t be able to advance without it.

for the new dungeon right? if you want to do the new dungeon you can.

If things keep going this way, WvW will have an increasing gear gap. Every new content patch you’ll be weaker than the braindead carrot chasers and you’ll start getting stomped. Then you have two options: playing in an increasingly unfair WvW where leveling there is not even a possibility anymore or grind the kitten out with your chars. Maybe they’re even going to add a third option for you: Use the grind as a cheap cash shop bait to push you to buy crap for this manufactured need. As it currently stands, I wouldn’t be too shocked at this new low.

You know i like the vertical progression in the game was until exotics. i think it’s fun when it’s like that. Past that it’s just making an U turn on the whole “respect the player as human beings, people with lives, families…” in their Golden Rules (not so golden anymore, apparently) .

Check Respect for the Player
http://www.arena.net/blog/the-golden-rules-of-guild-wars-2

xiv.7136:

Fozzik.1742:

Please find me the person who thinks it is fun to be ineffective in groups, to be useless in dungeons, and to get stomped repeatedly in WvW? Find me the person who enjoys sitting for hours trying to find a group? In what way is it fun to get left out of new content or the best rewards?

Part of having fun in a game is being effective and useful and sometimes successful. You can’t do any of those things if you are left far behind by the stat treadmill. You won’t get groups and you will be largely ineffective in PvE content. You won’t be useful and will constantly get defeated in WvW. This game requires gear and stats in order to be effective and successful…and ArenaNet just added a huge grind to that requirement with their new tiers of gear and infusions.

I’m sorry you don’t understand what’s happening, how the game works, or what other people are saying, and that it causes you to be annoyed.

We’re TRYING to play the game for fun. ArenaNet is requiring a stat grind of ever-growing proportions in order to reach that fun.

This is completely and utterly untrue.

Level to 80, buy cheap rares off the trader and you can do anything in the game. You don’t even need exotics.

You do NOT need even exotics

There is no content that is off-limits to you as a fresh 80 with nearly free rares from the trader.

Stop being emo-kittens.

You misunderstand. This is a matter of design philosophy and direction. Obviously the gap is not yet large. The problem is that it is now only going to grow. The beginning of the problems can already be seen in the difficulty people have finding groups for dungeons, and the substantial differences in power between tiers of gear in WvW. It will only get larger.

You have to understand. Up until this patch, based on everything ArenaNet said, people were totally happy with exotics being the peak of stats. Everyone could reach that peak without a huge amount of time, in a myriad of different ways, and then they would never have to worry about getting left behind or an ever-widening gap between them and other players. They would never have to worry about watching themselves slowly but surely become less and less powerful compared to other players and compared to the newly released content.

That is all gone now. Sure, a couple days after the patch the difference isn’t that huge. The problem is that if I keep playing the game and just doing the things I find fun, I’m going to watch the gap grow and grow until I can’t get groups at all, can’t be effective in WvW, and can’t enjoy the game. This is the way you boil a frog… you turn the heat up slowly and he won’t jump out of the pot. Each time they make a change like this, there will be people who argue that this single change in direction, all by itself in a vacuum that doesn’t include the obvious consequences, doesn’t amount to a big issue. We’re blowing it out of proportion. We’re over-reacting. Sadly, we don’t exist in a vacuum, and ignoring the future consequences doesn’t make them go away.

Basically, I’m not arguing because the train is off the tracks now. I’m arguing because they just changed direction, and I can see that the bridge is out up ahead. The fact that some don’t see it just makes it even more important that I speak up.

Fozzik.1742:

You misunderstand. This is a matter of design philosophy and direction. Obviously the gap is not yet large. The problem is that it is now only going to grow. The beginning of the problems can already be seen in the difficulty people have finding groups for dungeons, and the substantial differences in power between tiers of gear in WvW. It will only get larger.

You have to understand. Up until this patch, based on everything ArenaNet said, people were totally happy with exotics being the peak of stats. Everyone could reach that peak without a huge amount of time, in a myriad of different ways, and then they would never have to worry about getting left behind or an ever-widening gap between them and other players. They would never have to worry about watching themselves slowly but surely become less and less powerful compared to other players and compared to the newly released content.

That is all gone now. Sure, a couple days after the patch the difference isn’t that huge. The problem is that if I keep playing the game and just doing the things I find fun, I’m going to watch the gap grow and grow until I can’t get groups at all, can’t be effective in WvW, and can’t enjoy the game. This is the way you boil a frog… you turn the heat up slowly and he won’t jump out of the pot. Each time they make a change like this, there will be people who argue that this single change in direction, all by itself in a vacuum that doesn’t include the obvious consequences, doesn’t amount to a big issue. We’re blowing it out of proportion. We’re over-reacting. Sadly, we don’t exist in a vacuum, and ignoring the future consequences doesn’t make them go away.

Basically, I’m not arguing because the train is off the tracks now. I’m arguing because they just changed direction, and I can see that the bridge is out up ahead. The fact that some don’t see it just makes it even more important that I speak up.

exatly this is the MAIN point here,
we were promised this game would be for everyone! even for the people with a real life! with a job! with a family!

not only for those who can come and play for one-time events on specific time zones,

not only for grinders

not only for those who love dungeons with pugs

Harbard.5738:

If things keep going this way, WvW will have an increasing gear gap. Every new content patch you’ll be weaker than the braindead carrot chasers and you’ll start getting stomped. Then you have two options: playing in an increasingly unfair WvW where leveling there is not even a possibility anymore or grind the kitten out with your chars.

WvW has always been unbalanced. you can enter at lvl 2 and fight lvl 80’s.

Amen.2630:

Fozzik.1742:

exatly this is the MAIN point here,
we were promised this game would be for everyone! even for the people with a real life! with a job! with a family!

not only for those who can come and play for one-time events on specific time zones,

not only for grinders

not only for those who love dungeons with pugs

it still is for everyone. just do the things you find fun. nothing in this game is required.

This is what I say all the time to other players myself. But it’s astounding the amount of MMO players who doesn’t know the difference between chore and fun, because they have long forgotten the reason why they started playing games in the first place. The other day I went on a “farm run” with my guild, just to see what it was all about, but half way trough I was too far behind them because I kept getting sidetracked, and because it was stupidly boring. Running around in a circle collecting mats for an hour. Why?! I could have spend that time play Worlds PvP, or anything ells that’s not a chore. People don’t think about what their are doing. But, to each their own..

But some people care about how the game they play evolves, especially when it deviates from core principles and the initial vision.

Ragman.1690:

But some people care about how the game they play evolves, especially when it deviates from core principles and the initial vision.

how did it deviate from core principles and the initial vision?

Kasama.8941:

This is what I say all the time to other players myself. But it’s astounding the amount of MMO players who doesn’t know the difference between chore and fun, because they have long forgotten the reason why they started playing games in the first place. The other day I went on a “farm run” with my guild, just to see what it was all about, but half way trough I was too far behind them because I kept getting sidetracked, and because it was stupidly boring. Running around in a circle collecting mats for an hour. Why?! I could have spend that time play Worlds PvP, or anything ells that’s not a chore. People don’t think about what their are doing. But, to each their own..

Agreed. Everyone and their dog are getting on their high horse about “game design philosophy” and “the direction to doom the game is taking”, but they completely forget that the end goal here is just their own entertainment.

People treat their characters as if they are careers, which require lots of chores and busywork to maintain. But it’s so easy to just have fun without worrying about game design philosophies, game design principles and game design visions.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

Kasama.8941:

This is what I say all the time to other players myself. But it’s astounding the amount of MMO players who doesn’t know the difference between chore and fun, because they have long forgotten the reason why they started playing games in the first place. The other day I went on a “farm run” with my guild, just to see what it was all about, but half way trough I was too far behind them because I kept getting sidetracked, and because it was stupidly boring. Running around in a circle collecting mats for an hour. Why?! I could have spend that time play Worlds PvP, or anything ells that’s not a chore. People don’t think about what their are doing. But, to each their own..

Agreed. Everyone and their dog are getting on their high horse about “game design philosophy” and “the direction to doom the game is taking”, but they completely forget that the end goal here is just their own entertainment.

People treat their characters as if they are careers, which require lots of chores and busywork to maintain. But it’s so easy to just have fun without worrying about design philosophy and game direction.

im glad there are at least a few that understand.

I believe Anet at one point recognized that “grindy” games were not fun. Anet was right and the issue of “fun” is actually the main thing driving the forums right now. The forums will settle down when Anet reads their marketing and says hey, these really are good ideas; man, the game would be pure fun without a gear grind!

phooka.4295:

xiv.7136:

Xpiher.5209:

There isn’t any YET. New content will require you to be geared in agony resistance to do it.

So you’re concerned about something that hasn’t happened, that hasn’t been announced and is clearly not going to happen?

Sigh.

When the new gear was announced, it was said that there would be a point beyond which you won’t be able to advance without it. You choose to ignore what’s been said and written just so you can pretend that what troubles others is a non-issue. No good style.

There is a point beyond level 10+ FOM where you will need the new gear.

But you can always do level 1-10 and play the whole dungeon, every fractal, in multiple difficulties no less, and an infinite number of times.

There is nothing that you cannot do in the game with just some cheap Rares from the trader, and exactly 0 ascended items. No content is off limits for someone is level 80 with 2g worth of items on their back.

I am pretty much ignoring ascended items completely. I don’t need them, at all, for dungeons, PVE or WvW. They are only needed for people doing level 10+ FOM.

Ryuujin.8236:

Can someone just clarify this for me: What changed?

People are saying the game is no longer fun, but the game that existed before the patch is still here. They simply added new content.

If the old content was fun, why are you trying to do things that are un-fun? Why not stick to the stuff you find to be fun? (I personally hate sPvP so I don’t sPvP. Problem solved, if you don’t like fractals or the karka, don’t do them)

The focal point of the community and the future of the game has changed. This game is a Massive Multiplayer game. So the experience is dictated to a large degree by what the community is doing.

If you don’t understand this, then imagine: Starting tomorrow, nobody else ever logs in to the game. The GAME is still the same. Why wouldn’t you continue to play for much longer?

Raine.1394:

I believe Anet at one point recognized that “grindy” games were not fun. Anet was right and issue of “fun” is actually the main thing driving the forums right now. The forums will settle down when Anet reads their marketing and says hey, these are really good ideas; man, the game would be pure fun without a gear grind!

the grind is for those that find it fun. completely optional for those that don’t. same for de’s, hearts, dungeons, jump puzzles, crafting, etc. find what you enjoy and have fun.

El Hefe.2814:

Ragman.1690:

But some people care about how the game they play evolves, especially when it deviates from core principles and the initial vision.

how did it deviate from core principles and the initial vision?

- one time events every month which only 10% of players could complete without getting bugged out or didnt even have time for to do

- new armor which require grinding

- crafting which doesnt scale with the level = useless = only for grinders

- no peole accepted for dungeon runs if they dont have the same dungeon-lvl or exotics and without a way to find partys couse chat is blocking you after second attempt

- people dont do any quests in pve, they just 1-kill a mob and wait for someone else to complete it, they will get gold-reward anyway

so what is here:
pvp broken – couse the stats are completly other ones than in pve
wvw broken – unbalanced servers result on hitting ghost walls forever
pve broken – botters and lazy people

shall i continue? what the heck do you even find good in this game, youre so violently attac us which have some valid complains here

Xpiher.5209:

Its not necessary YET. ANET said it will be in the future. Content gating has been introduced to GW2

Exactly my issue as well.
And it will spill into WvW as well making PvE needed for WvW.

Xandax.1753:

Xpiher.5209:

El Hefe.2814:

xtorma.1283:

El Hefe.2814:

Fozzik.1742:

We’re TRYING to play the game for fun. ArenaNet is requiring a stat grind of ever-growing proportions in order to reach that fun.

it’s not required. if you don’t find it fun, don’t do it. i guarantee you will enjoy the game more.

Exactly my issue as well.
And it will spill into WvW as well making PvE needed for WvW.
If that’s the case, there was no reason for the stat increase.

the increase is to give those players a reward. they new gear isn’t easy to get. it requires dedication and skill. but it is also not necessary to complete other content.

Its not necessary YET. ANET said it will be in the future. Content gating has been introduced to GW2

still waiting for the required quote.

El Hefe.2814:

Xandax.1753:

Xpiher.5209:

El Hefe.2814:

xtorma.1283:

El Hefe.2814:

Fozzik.1742:

We’re TRYING to play the game for fun. ArenaNet is requiring a stat grind of ever-growing proportions in order to reach that fun.

it’s not required. if you don’t find it fun, don’t do it. i guarantee you will enjoy the game more.

Exactly my issue as well.
And it will spill into WvW as well making PvE needed for WvW.
If that’s the case, there was no reason for the stat increase.

the increase is to give those players a reward. they new gear isn’t easy to get. it requires dedication and skill. but it is also not necessary to complete other content.

Its not necessary YET. ANET said it will be in the future. Content gating has been introduced to GW2

still waiting for the required quote.

Don’t wait for the required quote. Everything has been quoted, probably hundreds of times. Do your own legwork. All you need to do is skim the Ascended gear merged thread. This is like a gear grind, you now need to catch up with everyone that has already grinded out the issues.

There is a huge segment of gamers who have turned their game into a job. They’ve lost ability to just goof around and have a good time.

Gimmeee gear, gimmeee loot….gimme progression to even better gear n’ loot.

Its all just pixels peeps. Nothing you accomplish in this game or any other is worth spit in real life.

You might as well enjoy the ride. But, man…some of you just seem so miserably unhappy over a silly game mechanic.

El Hefe.2814:

im sick of all this kitten on these forums. if you guys feel like your grinding or being forced to do something then don’t do it. the premise is really simple. Play the game for fun. have fun with the game. when you stop having fun take a break. you aren’t being forced to farm/grind or whatever else you want to call it. it’s not required to do anything in the game. so just remember it’s a game, have fun. if your not having fun, take a break. you already bought the game and it will be here when you’re ready to have fun again.

I don’t have a problem with a new level of gear, and I don’t consider it a grind if you’re having fun while working towards an achievement or goal.

But the (FUN) is what they broke about the game for me. See I don’t like dungeons much, I like the open world multi-player events and before this patch I had a fun path to the best gear in the game, now I have to run a dungeon for it.

Karma was the currency of fun, Karma let you play the game and just do what you wanted yet tick you closer to the top achievements just by playing the game. This ended with the introduction of Ascended gear and Infusions.

Now, consider this, what if next month they put in the next 2 pieces of Ascended gear only instead of dungeon runs you have to complete (X) amount of WvW or PvP content achievements. How would you feel then? Many players don’t even touch PvP or WvW and I guaranty a whole new crowed of people would be here complaining about that.

So have some empathy for those players out there that don’t play the game exactly like you or have as much free time as you and understand that a few days ago this game was flexible enough to appeal to more players then it does today, and what you see on the forums is the fallout over this.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

People treat their characters as if they are careers, which require lots of chores and busywork to maintain. But it’s so easy to just have fun without worrying about game design philosophies, game design principles and game design visions.

Except when descisions in game design stop me from having fun because my guildmates are running FotM at level 12 and I’m at level 4 because I had RL on the weekend.

I can understand that people are unhappy with the change and that the game is no longer fun for them. You’ve given your feedback.

But there are many of us who have chosen to remain in the game and those who are unhappy are turning the forums into a hostile environment for us. I worry it will get to the point where those of us who still want to play will be harassed by those who don’t.

Logun.2349:

El Hefe.2814:

im sick of all this kitten on these forums. if you guys feel like your grinding or being forced to do something then don’t do it. the premise is really simple. Play the game for fun. have fun with the game. when you stop having fun take a break. you aren’t being forced to farm/grind or whatever else you want to call it. it’s not required to do anything in the game. so just remember it’s a game, have fun. if your not having fun, take a break. you already bought the game and it will be here when you’re ready to have fun again.

I don’t have a problem with a new level of gear, and I don’t consider it a grind if you’re having fun while working towards an achievement or goal.

But the (FUN) is what they broke about the game for me. See I don’t like dungeons much, I like the open world multi-player events and before this patch I had a fun path to the best gear in the game, now I have to run a dungeon for it.

Karma was the currency of fun, Karma let you play the game and just do what you wanted yet tick you closer to the top achievements just by playing the game. This ended with the introduction of Ascended gear and Infusions.

Now, consider this, what if next month they put in the next 2 pieces of Ascended gear only instead of dungeon runs you have to complete (X) amount of WvW or PvP content achievements. How would you feel then? Many players don’t even touch PvP or WvW and I guaranty a whole new crowed of people would be here complaining about that.

So have some empathy for those players out there that don’t play the game exactly like you or have as much free time as you and understand that a few days ago this game was flexible enough to appeal to more players then it does today, and what you see on the forums is the fallout over this.

the gear is optional. not required. just do the stuff you find fun. you said you like “open world multi-player events”. good. the new gear is not required to do that.

Logun.2349:

So have some empathy for those players out there that don’t play the game exactly like you

I don’t have any empathy for them not because they don’t play the game like me, but because they are exhibiting the symptoms of serious psychological illness. You should be able to function as a normal human being regardless whether your video game avatar has a specific piece of clothing that is 5% more powerful than your current gear and not lose sleep working out how you can obtain it the fastest.

phooka.4295:

Jornophelanthas.1475:

People treat their characters as if they are careers, which require lots of chores and busywork to maintain. But it’s so easy to just have fun without worrying about game design philosophies, game design principles and game design visions.

Except when descisions in game design stop me from having fun because my guildmates are running FotM at level 12 and I’m at level 4 because I had RL on the weekend.

i hate to say it because it’s cliche’ but, if your guild isnt willing to help you out, you might want to find some people that will. there are lots of people on this forum saying they can’t find a group. im sure some of them would be willing to group with you. maybe you’ll catch up to your guild or make some new friends.

Xpiher.5209:

Galen Grey.4709:

Xpiher.5209:

Galen Grey.4709:

Xpiher.5209:

I’m not doing it, but not playing the game anymore. The game is no longer fun, to me, with the introduction of this patch. Is that so hard to understand?

honestly yes! provided you found the game fun before this patch that is. This patch didnt change any of the content that was there before (okey some class balances here and there) just added new stuff.

If you find the added stuff unfun whats the problem with ignoring it?
do you think without ascended items you’ll fail at PvE?
do you think without ascended items everyone will kill you in WvW?
whats the real issue why this patch made what was fun before suddenly be unfun?

Hopefully my break down for why its not longer fun for me helps you understand this

1) I don’t like like being required to grind for gear
2) This new patch requires me to grind for gear now and in the future because not only does this gear have better stats (and so will the next pieces), but Agony will be required to participate in future content, ANET said it will be used in the future, you don’t get progression. This means, if I want to experience new content and be the best I can be in WvW I’m required to grind
3) MMORPGs are an overall process of character development and exploration. Its also a social. Thats why I prefer MMORPGs over single player games, even games like Skyrim. If I don’t like what the future holds, because it involves things I don’t like (vertical gear progression tied to RNG) I lose my desire to play.

Thing is as far as we know and there is 0 reason to think it will be any different the agony mechanic which is the only thing you really need ascended gear for is in the fractals of the mists dungeon. This to me was created to provided content for people who like gear grinds, threadmills and stuff like that. If you dont enjoy that sort of thing then you’re not going to play fotm which means agony is a non issue for you which means you dont really need ascended armor.

You don’t get progression if the gear isn’t required for future content. If its only limited to fractals, why bother adding it? This doesn’t satisfy the people who like character progression tied to gear and it only pisses everyone else off. And ANET already said that they’ll use Agony mechanics in future updates. It doesn’t matter if Agony mechanics are only limited to dungeons, or certain dungeons in the future. The point is that the gear still has the best stats, and to do those future dungeons I have to go through an insane amount of grind to even participate in the new content (progression doesn’t exist if you don’t require previous pieces to get new ones). Content gating is simply bad (outside buying new content, which is understandable).

They said they will continue updating fractals of the mists and not that they’ll be introducing Agony to all future dungeons. Not that I can exclude it ofcourse but its equally an assumption thinking they will!

The way I am seeing is they did this to provide progression in this one place, the fractals of the mists thats all!

Its pretty clever really (apart from they really shouldnt have made the base stats better, dont think that was a particularly good idea). The open world remains uneffected as long as agony gets restricted to that one dungeon. Its designed in such a way that it can be expanded upon so people who like progression can get fresh content and still get progression through improved infusions! why people who hate that sort of thing just steer clear away from that one dungeon! yet if they feel they want to experiance it they still can for the first 10 levels of difficulty! Its really a win win for everyone in a way! (or well would have been had ascended had the same base stats)

I agree, totally against content gating but I ask you once again what content is being gated right now? The answer is none! The only thing that progression is gating is the difficulty level of this one dungeon! They can keep it as is, having higher difficulty levels of that dungeon requiring better agony protection and better infusions recipes, infusions themselves or better looking agony armor dropping from higher level difficulties.

If they do it like this no one will really be negatively effected ! and since they plan to make ascended armor available through at least WvW the minor statistical disadvantage will only be temporary!

Ryuujin.8236:

Logun.2349:

So have some empathy for those players out there that don’t play the game exactly like you

I don’t have any empathy for them not because they don’t play the game like me, but because they are exhibiting the symptoms of serious psychological illness. You should be able to function as a normal human being regardless whether your video game avatar has a specific piece of clothing that is 5% more powerful than your current gear and not lose sleep working out how you can obtain it the fastest.

Prognosis? Negative.

Yashimata.2986:

People who play WvW can’t just ignore the new tier. Other players WILL bring it in to the maps, and it WILL affect them negatively if their opponents have the upper hand in stats. Yeah they’ll “eventually” add ascended gear to WvW, but people might be fed up with losing a disproportionate amount of their battles by that point.

I also did the math on my back piece (which I upgraded from rare + exotic jewel to ascended) and it was a 22% increase in the relevant stats. Nothing was lost to magic find or other stats I wouldn’t use. One piece isn’t a huge deal (I gained ~7 toughness and 1% crit) but it adds up very quickly.

but sorry you cheated you jumped 2 tiers

forget the back item because currently there is no exotic back item, check it with an exotic ring → ascended ring the jump is 7% not 22%
then check the jump from rare → exotic, the jump is 12% so really this is just 1/2 a tier better!

Galen Grey.4709:

The open world remains uneffected as long as agony gets restricted to that one dungeon.

You wrote something similar before to which I responded about an hour ago, explaining why this sentiment (for me) is simply untrue. You can find my response here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Play-the-Game-for-FUN/811931

Onshidesigns.1069:

Players who are talking about a grind or treadmill are referring to what the game will become.

You cant talk about the future, for all we know they might scrap the idea and never take it any further then this too!