Guild Wars 2

El Hefe.2814:

Xandax.1753:

Xpiher.5209:

El Hefe.2814:

xtorma.1283:

El Hefe.2814:

Fozzik.1742:

We’re TRYING to play the game for fun. ArenaNet is requiring a stat grind of ever-growing proportions in order to reach that fun.

it’s not required. if you don’t find it fun, don’t do it. i guarantee you will enjoy the game more.

Exactly my issue as well.
And it will spill into WvW as well making PvE needed for WvW.
If that’s the case, there was no reason for the stat increase.

the increase is to give those players a reward. they new gear isn’t easy to get. it requires dedication and skill. but it is also not necessary to complete other content.

Its not necessary YET. ANET said it will be in the future. Content gating has been introduced to GW2

still waiting for the required quote.

I already gave it to you.

El Hefe.2814:

phooka.4295:

xiv.7136:

Xpiher.5209:

There isn’t any YET. New content will require you to be geared in agony resistance to do it.

So you’re concerned about something that hasn’t happened, that hasn’t been announced and is clearly not going to happen?

Sigh.

When the new gear was announced, it was said that there would be a point beyond which you won’t be able to advance without it.

for the new dungeon right? if you want to do the new dungeon you can.

If its only limited to one dungeon then its not progression. They already said, as I’ve pointed out in countless threads, that they will be expanding on the agony system in future content updates.

Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion, but we feel it’s important to strive to satisfy the basic needs of our players sooner rather than later…

So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content[that content being agony system].

This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features.

That clear enough for you https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

There are many elements in any MMOG that I find “fun” to do in and of themselves – even WoW. Your argument could be applied to anyone who is unhappy or dissatisfied playing those games – “just do what you find fun, and don’t do what you don’t find to be fun”. You’d basically have to dislike everything about a game to stop playing.

You’re missing the point. What a lot of people find to be “fun” is maxing out (stat and level-wise) characters – many of them, dressing them up in cool skins, and doing stuff like WvW, events, new content, even old content while collecting tokens and gold and karma to collect variant versions of their maxed out gear to try different builds in different situations.

Now, if the game has become an endless stat or level treadmill, how can I have fun? I can’t create a stable of maxed-out characters (especially if I am a casual player). I can’t create different maxed-out gear collections. I can’t really even farm for cosmetics because now all my time must be used to grind an endless power-creep gear treadmill.

So, while I may enjoy fighting the same centaurs or ogres over and over with different kinds of characters (and heck, even with the same character), the problem is that such activity is only superficially fun if I know that character will never, ever be maxed out. It will never even be close to maxed out. It was superficially fun for a long time in WoW until I realized that my long-term goal was unattainable: I would never have a maxed-out character. I would never be able to max out alts and try out different max-stat builds.

So, while many things in the game remain, in and of themselves, superficially enjoyable (the art, the animations, the story, the NPC characters, the events), the problem is that my long-term, ultimate plans for my characters and for my time in GW2 can no longer be achieved. This new direction has robbed me of being able to achieve my long-term goals.

Sure, you could say that I can just change my long-term goals and focus on killing mobs or DEs or heart quests, but without the long-term context and framework those immediate enjoyments become hollow and unfulfilling.

You see, the hardcore gear-grinders have similar long-term goals. Many of them probably have an additional goal of always having better stats than anyone that doesn’t put in as much time as them. That gives them a long term satisfaction and fulfillment that many, many games already out provide.

But GW2, as it was originally designed, was going to provide for and serve my long-term goals and satisfaction because I would be able to max out characters and explore and experience the game with them. I don’t require being “better” than other players, or having “better” stats than most everyone else; I just want to be able to – eventually – have equal stat characters, equal with anyone else no matter how much time they put in the game.

And that is why asking us to “just enjoy the parts of the game that are fun” misses the point; we could do that superficially in any game; it only lasts a short time (shorter and shorter the more time you’ve spent doing it) before the lack of long-term, in-game, ultimate goal satisfaction renders it hollow to the point of not being fun any more.

Amen to playing for fun. So many people get caught up in efficiency and grinding everything they can and scouring guides on the internet that they really just lose focus of the beauty of self-exploration and discovery. So what if you don’t get everything on the first time around.. it’s a world you can go back and re-visit at any time if you discover the need to. Simple as that. Have fun.

El Hefe.2814:

Logun.2349:

El Hefe.2814:

im sick of all this kitten on these forums. if you guys feel like your grinding or being forced to do something then don’t do it. the premise is really simple. Play the game for fun. have fun with the game. when you stop having fun take a break. you aren’t being forced to farm/grind or whatever else you want to call it. it’s not required to do anything in the game. so just remember it’s a game, have fun. if your not having fun, take a break. you already bought the game and it will be here when you’re ready to have fun again.

I don’t have a problem with a new level of gear, and I don’t consider it a grind if you’re having fun while working towards an achievement or goal.

But the (FUN) is what they broke about the game for me. See I don’t like dungeons much, I like the open world multi-player events and before this patch I had a fun path to the best gear in the game, now I have to run a dungeon for it.

Karma was the currency of fun, Karma let you play the game and just do what you wanted yet tick you closer to the top achievements just by playing the game. This ended with the introduction of Ascended gear and Infusions.

Now, consider this, what if next month they put in the next 2 pieces of Ascended gear only instead of dungeon runs you have to complete (X) amount of WvW or PvP content achievements. How would you feel then? Many players don’t even touch PvP or WvW and I guaranty a whole new crowed of people would be here complaining about that.

So have some empathy for those players out there that don’t play the game exactly like you or have as much free time as you and understand that a few days ago this game was flexible enough to appeal to more players then it does today, and what you see on the forums is the fallout over this.

the gear is optional. not required. just do the stuff you find fun. you said you like “open world multi-player events”. good. the new gear is not required to do that.

Not required yet, but once the full set becomes available the endgame zones are going to need to have a power increases to ensure they don’t become trivial.

Everyone wants a path to the best stuff in the game, a few days ago Arena Net seemed to respect that today not so much. So the games appeal has demised.

You didn’t answer my question about PvP do you like PvP, or here’s another one. What if they made you complete every jumping puzzle in the game to get the components you need to mystic forge yourself up a piece of your Ascended gear ….what then how would you feel about it then?

Today the game is less because they pigeonholed me into game play I don’t care for.

Xpiher.5209:

El Hefe.2814:

Xandax.1753:

Xpiher.5209:

El Hefe.2814:

xtorma.1283:

El Hefe.2814:

Fozzik.1742:

We’re TRYING to play the game for fun. ArenaNet is requiring a stat grind of ever-growing proportions in order to reach that fun.

it’s not required. if you don’t find it fun, don’t do it. i guarantee you will enjoy the game more.

Exactly my issue as well.
And it will spill into WvW as well making PvE needed for WvW.
If that’s the case, there was no reason for the stat increase.

the increase is to give those players a reward. they new gear isn’t easy to get. it requires dedication and skill. but it is also not necessary to complete other content.

Its not necessary YET. ANET said it will be in the future. Content gating has been introduced to GW2

still waiting for the required quote.

I already gave it to you.

El Hefe.2814:

phooka.4295:

xiv.7136:

Xpiher.5209:

There isn’t any YET. New content will require you to be geared in agony resistance to do it.

So you’re concerned about something that hasn’t happened, that hasn’t been announced and is clearly not going to happen?

Sigh.

When the new gear was announced, it was said that there would be a point beyond which you won’t be able to advance without it.

for the new dungeon right? if you want to do the new dungeon you can.

If its only limited to one dungeon then its not progression. They already said, as I’ve pointed out in countless threads, that they will be expanding on the agony system in future content updates.

Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion, but we feel it’s important to strive to satisfy the basic needs of our players sooner rather than later…

So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content[that content being agony system].

This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features.

That clear enough for you https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

once again. nowhere does it say the gear is required.

Galen Grey.4709:

Yashimata.2986:

People who play WvW can’t just ignore the new tier. Other players WILL bring it in to the maps, and it WILL affect them negatively if their opponents have the upper hand in stats. Yeah they’ll “eventually” add ascended gear to WvW, but people might be fed up with losing a disproportionate amount of their battles by that point.

I also did the math on my back piece (which I upgraded from rare + exotic jewel to ascended) and it was a 22% increase in the relevant stats. Nothing was lost to magic find or other stats I wouldn’t use. One piece isn’t a huge deal (I gained ~7 toughness and 1% crit) but it adds up very quickly.

but sorry you cheated you jumped 2 tiers

forget the back item because currently there is no exotic back item, check it with an exotic ring -> ascended ring the jump is 7% not 22%
then check the jump from rare -> exotic, the jump is 12% so really this is just 1/2 a tier better!

But sorry your math is flawed.

If you compare the rings shown in this official blog post, you will see that one stat increases by 43%, and two stats increase by 8% each. That averages 20%. The ascended tier stats jump is about 1.5 times better according to your rare to exotic calculations.

Kathmandu.2417:

Ryuujin.8236:

Can someone just clarify this for me: What changed?

People are saying the game is no longer fun, but the game that existed before the patch is still here. They simply added new content.

If the old content was fun, why are you trying to do things that are un-fun? Why not stick to the stuff you find to be fun? (I personally hate sPvP so I don’t sPvP. Problem solved, if you don’t like fractals or the karka, don’t do them)

To use the analogue already posted here some times: people who are not happy with the new tier of items are vegetarians. They come to a restaurant who promised them 100% veg food, ordered some meal, started to enjoy the soja steaks and tofu rolls.

But now the chief began to cook meat in the same kitchen. So all the so tasty veg things have this hated meat flavor on them.

Nothing disappeared, all the great things a still there. But the new smell ruins all the fun nevertheless.

I understand what you’re saying and you do have a point! I would just disagree on one thing, the dishes dont really taste of meat, the progression is total segregated to the fractals of the mists so far, if you do Pve you dont need to touch it at all, if you do any other dungeon you dont need to touch it at all and while there might be some cross contamination in WvW to be fair its sooooo small I would say its more a smell rather then an actual taste!

But you’re on to something I would say its more like vegiterains just hating the idea their favorite restaurant is serving meat even though it doesnt really affect them!

El Hefe.2814:

TheWarKeeper.5374:

I found the game before ok and now i no longer find it ok nor fun.
If that is hard for some people to understand its their business and i shouldnt take up with their “pretend to be ignorant” talk, if thats not ok with u that core GW1 ppl no longer find GW2 fun then u can either leave or post more educated posts.

if it’s not fun then why play?

If enough people take your advice then that will be the end of this game. It is in ArenaNet’s best interest to keep the game fun for as many people as possible, especially those who bought it based on the promise that there would be no grind and that character progression would be horizontal.

El Hefe.2814:

Xpiher.5209:

El Hefe.2814:

Xandax.1753:

Xpiher.5209:

El Hefe.2814:

xtorma.1283:

El Hefe.2814:

Fozzik.1742:

We’re TRYING to play the game for fun. ArenaNet is requiring a stat grind of ever-growing proportions in order to reach that fun.

it’s not required. if you don’t find it fun, don’t do it. i guarantee you will enjoy the game more.

Exactly my issue as well.
And it will spill into WvW as well making PvE needed for WvW.
If that’s the case, there was no reason for the stat increase.

the increase is to give those players a reward. they new gear isn’t easy to get. it requires dedication and skill. but it is also not necessary to complete other content.

Its not necessary YET. ANET said it will be in the future. Content gating has been introduced to GW2

still waiting for the required quote.

I already gave it to you.

El Hefe.2814:

phooka.4295:

xiv.7136:

Xpiher.5209:

There isn’t any YET. New content will require you to be geared in agony resistance to do it.

So you’re concerned about something that hasn’t happened, that hasn’t been announced and is clearly not going to happen?

Sigh.

When the new gear was announced, it was said that there would be a point beyond which you won’t be able to advance without it.

for the new dungeon right? if you want to do the new dungeon you can.

If its only limited to one dungeon then its not progression. They already said, as I’ve pointed out in countless threads, that they will be expanding on the agony system in future content updates.

Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion, but we feel it’s important to strive to satisfy the basic needs of our players sooner rather than later…

So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content[that content being agony system].

This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features.

That clear enough for you https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

once again. nowhere does it say the gear is required.

You can choose to ignore everything I pointed out to you. And in a couple months when a new dungeon is added that requires you have agony buffs at the start I’ll simply say “I told you so”

I’m still playing, casually, much like I played Guild Wars 1 for years — wandering with my lizard, enjoying the scenery, not stressing much. It costs me nothing to do so, and I see no reason to throw away the fun just because ANet has been… annoying.

No, I am not happy with ANet’s recent decisions. The Lost Shores was buggy (although I did get loot for the big Karka event), the organization poor, the decision to add gear grind a slap in the face…

…but it’s a GAME. So I play the parts I enjoy, until ANet takes those things away from me.

Xpiher.5209:

Jornophelanthas.1475:

I play the game, I am having fun, and I don’t need convincing otherwise.

Just because some of you don’t appear to be having fun, doesn’t mean that you have a moral obligation to convince me to share your opinion.

We aren’t trying to convince you. We are trying to convince ANET that they messed up. If you play MMOs for gear treadmill and progression then I have to ask, why did you buy GW2 in the first place?

xiv.7136:

There is no content that is off-limits to you as a fresh 80 with nearly free rares from the trader.

There isn’t any YET. New content will require you to be geared in agony resistance to do it.

We dont know that yet! I suspect and hope it will be just be required for more difficult levels of the fractal dungeon only!

El Hefe.2814:

Xpiher.5209:

El Hefe.2814:

Xandax.1753:

Xpiher.5209:

El Hefe.2814:

xtorma.1283:

El Hefe.2814:

Fozzik.1742:

We’re TRYING to play the game for fun. ArenaNet is requiring a stat grind of ever-growing proportions in order to reach that fun.

it’s not required. if you don’t find it fun, don’t do it. i guarantee you will enjoy the game more.

Exactly my issue as well.
And it will spill into WvW as well making PvE needed for WvW.
If that’s the case, there was no reason for the stat increase.

the increase is to give those players a reward. they new gear isn’t easy to get. it requires dedication and skill. but it is also not necessary to complete other content.

Its not necessary YET. ANET said it will be in the future. Content gating has been introduced to GW2

still waiting for the required quote.

I already gave it to you.

El Hefe.2814:

phooka.4295:

xiv.7136:

Xpiher.5209:

There isn’t any YET. New content will require you to be geared in agony resistance to do it.

So you’re concerned about something that hasn’t happened, that hasn’t been announced and is clearly not going to happen?

Sigh.

When the new gear was announced, it was said that there would be a point beyond which you won’t be able to advance without it.

for the new dungeon right? if you want to do the new dungeon you can.

If its only limited to one dungeon then its not progression. They already said, as I’ve pointed out in countless threads, that they will be expanding on the agony system in future content updates.

Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion, but we feel it’s important to strive to satisfy the basic needs of our players sooner rather than later…

So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content[that content being agony system].

This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features.

That clear enough for you https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

once again. nowhere does it say the gear is required.

Its not required now, but when the complete ascent set will be finished its will become MANDATORY to be equal to the others players in term of stats.
WvW is the major issue with this, but even normal world content, or dungeon runs will be influenced By this (aka gearscore).
No one say that is require, because its implict!

You love to grind… ok no one force you to not grind. When i was playing WOW (WOTLK to be precise), i grinded with my pally tank all the thrash of ICC alone, to farm items to disenchant, but its was my choice to do that.
Now here, with this new set, we are being forced to grind, for a future mandatory equipment, when it was supposed that this game was grindless (talking about stats)

[/quote]

the gear is optional. not required. just do the stuff you find fun. you said you like “open world multi-player events”. good. the new gear is not required to do that.

[/quote]

Not required yet, but once the full set becomes available the endgame zones are going to need to have a power increases to ensure they don’t become trivial.

Everyone wants a path to the best stuff in the game, a few days ago Arena Net seemed to respect that today not so much. So the games appeal has demised.

You didn’t answer my question about PvP do you like PvP, or here’s another one. What if they made you complete every jumping puzzle in the game to get the components you need to mystic forge yourself up a piece of your Ascended gear ….what then how would you feel about it then?

Today the game is less because they pigeonholed me into game play I don’t care for.
[/quote]

can you not do DE’s anymore? the events now require this new gear? if your asking me what i would and wouldnt do for new gear, i play the game to have fun. i do things i find fun. i don’t do things i don’t find fun. don’t really know how to answer other than that.

Galen Grey.4709:

Xpiher.5209:

Jornophelanthas.1475:

I play the game, I am having fun, and I don’t need convincing otherwise.

Just because some of you don’t appear to be having fun, doesn’t mean that you have a moral obligation to convince me to share your opinion.

We aren’t trying to convince you. We are trying to convince ANET that they messed up. If you play MMOs for gear treadmill and progression then I have to ask, why did you buy GW2 in the first place?

xiv.7136:

There is no content that is off-limits to you as a fresh 80 with nearly free rares from the trader.

There isn’t any YET. New content will require you to be geared in agony resistance to do it.

We dont know that yet! I suspect and hope it will be just be required for more difficult levels of the fractal dungeon only!

All current information points to the fact that it will. Otherwise its not progression.

If what you find fun is the ability to max out characters and suit them up with maxed out gear and dress them up cosmetically and take them around the world doing stuff, playing with different builds and weapons, then – especially as a casual player – this game can no longer be fun, because in order to have a maxed out (stat-wise) character we’ll have to do nothing but gear grind – which is not what we do for fun.

El Hefe.2814:

Xpiher.5209:

El Hefe.2814:

Xandax.1753:

Xpiher.5209:

El Hefe.2814:

xtorma.1283:

El Hefe.2814:

Fozzik.1742:

We’re TRYING to play the game for fun. ArenaNet is requiring a stat grind of ever-growing proportions in order to reach that fun.

it’s not required. if you don’t find it fun, don’t do it. i guarantee you will enjoy the game more.

Exactly my issue as well.
And it will spill into WvW as well making PvE needed for WvW.
If that’s the case, there was no reason for the stat increase.

the increase is to give those players a reward. they new gear isn’t easy to get. it requires dedication and skill. but it is also not necessary to complete other content.

Its not necessary YET. ANET said it will be in the future. Content gating has been introduced to GW2

still waiting for the required quote.

I already gave it to you.

El Hefe.2814:

phooka.4295:

xiv.7136:

Xpiher.5209:

There isn’t any YET. New content will require you to be geared in agony resistance to do it.

So you’re concerned about something that hasn’t happened, that hasn’t been announced and is clearly not going to happen?

Sigh.

When the new gear was announced, it was said that there would be a point beyond which you won’t be able to advance without it.

for the new dungeon right? if you want to do the new dungeon you can.

If its only limited to one dungeon then its not progression. They already said, as I’ve pointed out in countless threads, that they will be expanding on the agony system in future content updates.

Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion, but we feel it’s important to strive to satisfy the basic needs of our players sooner rather than later…

So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content[that content being agony system].

This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features.

That clear enough for you https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

once again. nowhere does it say the gear is required.

I think you are being pedantic in your arguments.

• Yes, you don’t require infused gear against Agony. You will die and you won’t complete the Fractals, but you don’t require it.

• On fun. Of course, you don’t require Ascended gear. You will be missing out on a stats increase in WvW, in PvE, you will find yourself dying again and again in Fractals when Agony sets in, but you don’t require it. Technically, in GW2, only a decent computer, electricity, and a copy of the game is required. Everything else is optional.

There are real concerns about gameplay, about the direction the game is headed towards. You can’t sweep them all under the carpet by saying that it’s not required.

El Hefe.2814:

can you not do DE’s anymore? the events now require this new gear? if your asking me what i would and wouldnt do for new gear, i play the game to have fun. i do things i find fun. i don’t do things i don’t find fun. don’t really know how to answer other than that.

You still don’t get what we are complaining about. We are complaining about content gating. Any content gating, to us, is bad and goes against everything ANET promised. It doesn’t matter if the entire game doesn’t require it, a part of the game does. Not only that, but its based on RNG.

I do enjoy the dungeon, but this new patch isn’t without some serious negative externalities.

The progression system is way too rigid… you have to do lvl 1 to get to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to 4, etc etc…. This makes catching up a pain and gives you no incentive or way to continue progressing by doing lower levels.

The higher stats make the other dungeons and content less desirable; I mean at the rate I’ve been getting globs, money, and some T6 mats (and I’m only fractal level 7 now), any level 80 player can just play this dungeon and craft rares/exotics if they really want to up my stats a bit as the difficulties increase.

The nature of this dungeon being an infinite dungeon basically would always trump explore dungeons anyway since the rewards alone would net you coin and mats to just craft/buy exotics. Without making something super restrictive like “having unlocked the dungeon master title” or having a certain number of achievement points, I’m not sure how you integrate such a dungeon yet have all the other content still be viable.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

If what you find fun is the ability to max out characters and suit them up with maxed out gear and dress them up cosmetically and take them around the world doing stuff, playing with different builds and weapons, then – especially as a casual player – this game can no longer be fun, because in order to have a maxed out (stat-wise) character we’ll have to do nothing but gear grind – which is not what we do for fun.

thank you!
concise and to the point- good luck with getting that across in this tread.

[/quote]

Its not required now, but when the complete ascent set will be finished its will become MANDATORY to be equal to the others players in term of stats.
WvW is the major issue with this, but even normal world content, or dungeon runs will be influenced By this (aka gearscore).
No one say that is require, because its implict!

You love to grind… ok no one force you to not grind. When i was playing WOW (WOTLK to be precise), i grinded with my pally tank all the thrash of ICC alone, to farm items to disenchant, but its was my choice to do that.
Now here, with this new set, we are being forced to grind, for a future mandatory equipment, when it was supposed that this game was grindless (talking about stats)
[/quote]

but you aren’t being forced. it’s optional. what content requires this new gear? also, WvW has always been unbalanced. you can fight lvl 80’s at lvl 2.

Morrigan.2809:

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

If what you find fun is the ability to max out characters and suit them up with maxed out gear and dress them up cosmetically and take them around the world doing stuff, playing with different builds and weapons, then – especially as a casual player – this game can no longer be fun, because in order to have a maxed out (stat-wise) character we’ll have to do nothing but gear grind – which is not what we do for fun.

thank you!
concise and to the point- good luck with getting that across in this tread.

I think the post also sum up an issue with people’s thinking, one I see too in the legendaries.

Note that he considers himself a casual player, and yet he feels he must have ascended items before he is complete. I consider myself pretty hardcore, but even I am in no hurry to chase ascended gear, while vastly cheaper than legends, they are insanely more expensive than exotics.

Is this some kind’ve throwback of “other MMOs” where people assume that they both must and can get the top tier of gear in the shortest time possible?

El Hefe.2814:

the gear is optional. not required. just do the stuff you find fun. you said you like “open world multi-player events”. good. the new gear is not required to do that.

Not required yet, but once the full set becomes available the endgame zones are going to need to have a power increases to ensure they don’t become trivial.

Everyone wants a path to the best stuff in the game, a few days ago Arena Net seemed to respect that today not so much. So the games appeal has demised.

You didn’t answer my question about PvP do you like PvP, or here’s another one. What if they made you complete every jumping puzzle in the game to get the components you need to mystic forge yourself up a piece of your Ascended gear ….what then how would you feel about it then?

Today the game is less because they pigeonholed me into game play I don’t care for.

can you not do DE’s anymore? the events now require this new gear? if your asking me what i would and wouldnt do for new gear, i play the game to have fun. i do things i find fun. i don’t do things i don’t find fun. don’t really know how to answer other than that.

The question were not that hard, Do you like to PvP/WvW , Do you like jumping puzzles? …… and I’ll add one more, Do you like making your character as powerful as they can be?

Galen Grey.4709:

Kathmandu.2417:

Ryuujin.8236:

Can someone just clarify this for me: What changed?

People are saying the game is no longer fun, but the game that existed before the patch is still here. They simply added new content.

If the old content was fun, why are you trying to do things that are un-fun? Why not stick to the stuff you find to be fun? (I personally hate sPvP so I don’t sPvP. Problem solved, if you don’t like fractals or the karka, don’t do them)

To use the analogue already posted here some times: people who are not happy with the new tier of items are vegetarians. They come to a restaurant who promised them 100% veg food, ordered some meal, started to enjoy the soja steaks and tofu rolls.

But now the chief began to cook meat in the same kitchen. So all the so tasty veg things have this hated meat flavor on them.

Nothing disappeared, all the great things a still there. But the new smell ruins all the fun nevertheless.

I understand what you’re saying and you do have a point! I would just disagree on one thing, the dishes dont really taste of meat, the progression is total segregated to the fractals of the mists so far, if you do Pve you dont need to touch it at all, if you do any other dungeon you dont need to touch it at all and while there might be some cross contamination in WvW to be fair its sooooo small I would say its more a smell rather then an actual taste!

But you’re on to something I would say its more like vegiterains just hating the idea their favorite restaurant is serving meat even though it doesnt really affect them!

You are right, that the issue by itself is (almost) negligible right now because the introduced new tier items have very little impact on the overall character performance outside of the fractal dungeon.

But it’s just the first step. In the end of the day we will have a full set of new gear and it will make a huge difference in every aspect of the game.

So right now we have just a little bit meat smell in the kitchen. But soon you will have a huge rib-eye-steak on each plate you get served.

Not a bad thing by itself… but not something you want to experience in a veg local.

El Hefe.2814:

but you aren’t being forced. it’s optional. what content requires this new gear? also, WvW has always been unbalanced. you can fight lvl 80’s at lvl 2.

No one force, exactly like no one force me to play.
Grind the best gear is a mutual forcing.

and for the part: “WvW itys always unbalanced”
this make no sense. If you make a change, this MUST be balanced for the perfect situation.

• Same gear.
• Same character
• Same skill
• Same internet connection
• Same player ability.

The first 3 variable,are devs work and must be perfect! all player must have the same situation here before start “the match.”
The forth variable, is a sideeffect that we cant control.
Te fifth variable it the key factor. the game is fun becase you can grow as player.

Logun.2349:

El Hefe.2814:

the gear is optional. not required. just do the stuff you find fun. you said you like “open world multi-player events”. good. the new gear is not required to do that.

Not required yet, but once the full set becomes available the endgame zones are going to need to have a power increases to ensure they don’t become trivial.

Everyone wants a path to the best stuff in the game, a few days ago Arena Net seemed to respect that today not so much. So the games appeal has demised.

You didn’t answer my question about PvP do you like PvP, or here’s another one. What if they made you complete every jumping puzzle in the game to get the components you need to mystic forge yourself up a piece of your Ascended gear ….what then how would you feel about it then?

Today the game is less because they pigeonholed me into game play I don’t care for.

can you not do DE’s anymore? the events now require this new gear? if your asking me what i would and wouldnt do for new gear, i play the game to have fun. i do things i find fun. i don’t do things i don’t find fun. don’t really know how to answer other than that.

The question were not that hard, Do you like to PvP/WvW , Do you like jumping puzzles? …… and I’ll add one more, Do you like making your character as powerful as they can be?

i find parts of pve, spvp, and wvw fun. which i play depends on my mood. im not overly concerned with gear.

El Hefe.2814:

Logun.2349:

El Hefe.2814:

the gear is optional. not required. just do the stuff you find fun. you said you like “open world multi-player events”. good. the new gear is not required to do that.

Not required yet, but once the full set becomes available the endgame zones are going to need to have a power increases to ensure they don’t become trivial.

Everyone wants a path to the best stuff in the game, a few days ago Arena Net seemed to respect that today not so much. So the games appeal has demised.

You didn’t answer my question about PvP do you like PvP, or here’s another one. What if they made you complete every jumping puzzle in the game to get the components you need to mystic forge yourself up a piece of your Ascended gear ….what then how would you feel about it then?

Today the game is less because they pigeonholed me into game play I don’t care for.

can you not do DE’s anymore? the events now require this new gear? if your asking me what i would and wouldnt do for new gear, i play the game to have fun. i do things i find fun. i don’t do things i don’t find fun. don’t really know how to answer other than that.

The question were not that hard, Do you like to PvP/WvW , Do you like jumping puzzles? …… and I’ll add one more, Do you like making your character as powerful as they can be?

i find parts of pve, spvp, and wvw fun. which i play depends on my mood. im not overly concerned with gear.

And what if a part of the game you like is suddenly off limits to you because you don’t meet the gear requirement?

leprekan.7248:

I will never understand people that sling the line “don’t play if you aren’t having fun”. You know what happens when enough take that advice?

To me that line is one of the most sensible lines I can think of. It would be sad if people have to force entertainment on themselves, some may even call that “work”. If enough people take the advice? Everyone should. If you aren’t having fun playing a game, you owe it to yourself to find something else to do.

If nothing changes for me, I’ll be done with GW2 until the expansion when I have 100% map completion, that is when my fun will end. I don’t redo/farm, it numbs me, so I go elsewhere. Now if you have that personality and find that fun, bless ya. If you farm and hate farming, I call mirror.

phooka.4295:

The patch implicitly changed the old content.

Part of what made Orr fun for me (other than playing an overpowered, unbalanced warrior in dire need of being nerfed) what the fact that there were so many players, that there was so much going on. Orr seemed pretty empty yesterday. Most waypoints were contested.

Orr hasn’t changed?

You started great, I agree that even with rares you feel over powered even in Orr!
but then you said something that I cannot agree with, you suggested that no new content should ever be released so players stick in Orr and dont move on? the new zone is much better balanced and I no longer feel overpowered for the most part and thats a good thing. We need more such stuff not less!

phooka.4295:

I like the old dungeons. Well, if they’re not bugged. I like to play with guildies. However, it’s becoming harder and harder to make them to go to AC for the tokens for the sword. And understandably so. SO, if I want to go to AC, I have to resort to PUGing it, which is far less fun for me.

Old dungeons have not changed?

Think again. Some things are changed if the context in which they exist is changed.

Why do they refuse to go back to AC? is it because they just want to do FOTM now? And if so do you think its a permanent situation or just something temporary as they explore the new content? AC was just the first dungeon of 8 why did they feel it was okey to go back to it when there were newer dungeon they experianced and why cant the same be true now?

In any case its not the content that change in your example its the people you play with! you cant get your sword from FOTM, AC is still the only place where you can get your skin! the new patch didnt make it any less revelant in any way ! same Goes for Orr, Orr isnt any less rewarding, Orr isnt any worst then it was before and the new zone isnt any better in any way other then in its experiance (good ot have a little challenge finally) Should we deny ourselves a better experiance to protect the status quo? and if so what happens when people start getting fed up repeating the same content?

phooka.4295:

Galen Grey.4709:

If you find the added stuff unfun whats the problem with ignoring it?
do you think without ascended items you’ll fail at PvE?

Eventually, the new gear will be needed. It’s been stated that at a certain point, progression through FotM is impossible without it. In case you want to join your friends who go there, you have to farm it, too.

True enough but if you’re doing FotM, you’re doing it for the ascended items so why would it be a problem farming the very thing you’re essentially farming? Thats not to mention that you should be playing FotM multiple times because you want progression, if you want a non progressive dungeon you should be playing the other content! I mean If I like PvE why should be a problem for me that sPvP has no PvE in it? its not something I like so I dont do it!

phooka.4295:

Galen Grey.4709:

do you think without ascended items everyone will kill you in WvW?

I like to know that I’m doing the best I can in order to help my team. Not anymore. I’m not doing the best I can. Others are farming for better gear to win in WvW but I don’t, because I hate grind. I feel like letting my team down (a little bit). Bad emotion tied to the game.

The best you can do is relative! WvW is an open ended experiance which means everyone in it can essentially always do better! You could for example spend all night grindng with no sleep to get the gold necessary to buy siege weapons the next day! But like said you dont find grinding fun so it wouldnt be a good idea to do that, but still should you feel bad that you’re not doing the best you can do ? no! because the best you can do is relative! likewise why is it a problem if you’re not dressed in anscended armor on day one? (in the future ascended armor will drop in WvW too so in time you can still be at your best!)

phooka.4295:

Galen Grey.4709:

whats the real issue why this patch made what was fun before suddenly be unfun?

As stated above, it’s all about context.

I will go a step further and say its all about perception! You mentioned doing the best you can do and thats obviously a moving target! I could for example spend $100 a day buying gems, selling them and supply my WvW group with an endless supply of golems. I am sure you will not feel bad about not doing that though and you definitely shouldnt! You also mentioned grinding and said you’re not willing to do that cause you dont enjoy it. Nor should you and you dont feel bad about which is good! but why is this armor any different then any other grind? answer it isnt, its just perception!

El Hefe.2814:

Logun.2349:

The question were not that hard, Do you like to PvP/WvW , Do you like jumping puzzles? …… and I’ll add one more, Do you like making your character as powerful as they can be?

i find parts of pve, spvp, and wvw fun. which i play depends on my mood. im not overly concerned with gear.

Well, some people ARE concerned with gear, not just because of personal gearing, but for the implications it has on the game as a whole. They care about the fundamental change ascended gear has brought to the game.

Why are you trying to convince these people that they should be as unconcerned as you are with regards to gear?

Grinding your life away is not fun in any way. So much for the ‘next generation’ mmo. Just more of the same.

Ryuujin.8236:

Morrigan.2809:

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

If what you find fun is the ability to max out characters and suit them up with maxed out gear and dress them up cosmetically and take them around the world doing stuff, playing with different builds and weapons, then – especially as a casual player – this game can no longer be fun, because in order to have a maxed out (stat-wise) character we’ll have to do nothing but gear grind – which is not what we do for fun.

thank you!
concise and to the point- good luck with getting that across in this tread.

I think the post also sum up an issue with people’s thinking, one I see too in the legendaries.

Note that he considers himself a casual player, and yet he feels he must have ascended items before he is complete. I consider myself pretty hardcore, but even I am in no hurry to chase ascended gear, while vastly cheaper than legends, they are insanely more expensive than exotics.

Is this some kind’ve throwback of “other MMOs” where people assume that they both must and can get the top tier of gear in the shortest time possible?

No- it is about not having to bother with gear ever again.
Also for someone who plays alts and also likes to experiment with different builds, I can tell you that exotics don’t come cheap in those circumstances.

Getting a set of Ascended gear with on my main is not only expensive it is an unspeakable grind. Never mind the alts. Never mind different builds.
I have decided to just go for a Legendary instead, since at least this is a chore I can pick for myself.
Also you might gather from this post “the shortest time possible” is not a factor and no it is not a throwback from other MMO’s it is a result of a stated design philosophy from Anet-
I couldn’t care less about other MMO’s

El Hefe.2814:

im sick of all this kitten on these forums. if you guys feel like your grinding or being forced to do something then don’t do it. the premise is really simple. Play the game for fun. have fun with the game. when you stop having fun take a break. you aren’t being forced to farm/grind or whatever else you want to call it. it’s not required to do anything in the game. so just remember it’s a game, have fun. if your not having fun, take a break. you already bought the game and it will be here when you’re ready to have fun again.

I do play the game for fun and I do not grind (except randomly out soloing if I feel like just slapping some mobs around).

However, it will not be fun to be forever undergeared in WvW, so I quit doing it. And that was my main joy in this game. But I was sick and tired of always being at a disadvantage because I wasn’t an 80 in exotics.

I finally got my alt-happy, just playing for fun self a level 80 ranger and was ready to start the exotic (short) grind, and then Ascended landed on my fun like a load of bird droppings from the sky. So yeah, I’ve been complaining on the forums and pretty much just playing to goof off, since the one thing that mattered to me at level 80 is dead to me.

Making sure I have no hope of ever having on par gear in a PvP situation is a real good way to kill my fun.

El Hefe.2814:

phooka.4295:

xiv.7136:

Xpiher.5209:

There isn’t any YET. New content will require you to be geared in agony resistance to do it.

So you’re concerned about something that hasn’t happened, that hasn’t been announced and is clearly not going to happen?

Sigh.

When the new gear was announced, it was said that there would be a point beyond which you won’t be able to advance without it.

for the new dungeon right? if you want to do the new dungeon you can.

Not just new dungeons. Future content as well:

This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

Note that infusions aren’t simply to “give you an edge” but are required to complete the Fractal of the Mists dungeon. It’s rather obvious from that quote that the majority of future content will be locked behind gear-checks, which pretty much does away with ArenaNet’s promise of no-grind horizontal progression.

You have to be deliberately obtuse not to recognize this.

[

[/quote]

And what if a part of the game you like is suddenly off limits to you because you don’t meet the gear requirement? [/quote]

i guess i’d figure out what the gear req. was and what i’d need to do to get it.

El Hefe.2814:

And what if a part of the game you like is suddenly off limits to you because you don’t meet the gear requirement? [/quote]

i guess i’d figure out what the gear req. was and what i’d need to do to get it.

[/quote]

How would that be playing for fun? You’d end up doing hundreds of hours (if you didn’t cash shop short it) of unfun stuff by the time you were done getting a full set of gear that way. Hundreds of hours of unfun stuff? Why?

El Hefe.2814:

And what if a part of the game you like is suddenly off limits to you because you don’t meet the gear requirement?

i guess i’d figure out what the gear req. was and what i’d need to do to get it.

[/quote]

And you are ok with that? If it constantly happens, over and over and over again, with every new patch the type of content you liked requires you get the gear from the last patch only to give you new gear that will be required in a latter patch? And you would be ok doing that OVER and OVER again, just to get that new piece of gear?

Mountain Man.7901:

El Hefe.2814:

phooka.4295:

xiv.7136:

Xpiher.5209:

There isn’t any YET. New content will require you to be geared in agony resistance to do it.

So you’re concerned about something that hasn’t happened, that hasn’t been announced and is clearly not going to happen?

Sigh.

When the new gear was announced, it was said that there would be a point beyond which you won’t be able to advance without it.

for the new dungeon right? if you want to do the new dungeon you can.

Not just new dungeons. Future content as well:

This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

Note that infusions aren’t simply to “give you an edge” but are required to complete the Fractal of the Mists dungeon. It’s rather obvious from that quote that the majority of future content will be locked behind gear-checks, which pretty much does away with ArenaNet’s promise of no-grind horizontal progression.

You have to be deliberately obtuse not to recognize this.

if you don’t find the fotm dungeon fun. don’t do it. the gear you get from it allows you to progress in it. it’s not required to have fun.

Xpiher.5209:

El Hefe.2814:

And what if a part of the game you like is suddenly off limits to you because you don’t meet the gear requirement?

i guess i’d figure out what the gear req. was and what i’d need to do to get it.

And you are ok with that? If it constantly happens, over and over and over again, with every new patch the type of content you liked requires you get the gear from the last patch only to give you new gear that will be required in a latter patch? And you would be ok doing that OVER and OVER again, just to get that new piece of gear? [/quote]

He is obviously ok with that. And that’s ok.

The problem is, he want that we are ok with that.

Xpiher.5209:

El Hefe.2814:

And what if a part of the game you like is suddenly off limits to you because you don’t meet the gear requirement?

i guess i’d figure out what the gear req. was and what i’d need to do to get it.

And you are ok with that? If it constantly happens, over and over and over again, with every new patch the type of content you liked requires you get the gear from the last patch only to give you new gear that will be required in a latter patch? And you would be ok doing that OVER and OVER again, just to get that new piece of gear? [/quote]

if what ever it took to get the gear was fun. i’d do it. if im not having fun then why am i playing? just for gear? no. i play games for fun.

El Hefe.2814:

if you don’t find the fotm dungeon fun. don’t do it. the gear you get from it allows you to progress in it. it’s not required to have fun.

You don’t play WvW, do you? You don’t seriously PvP in any game, do you? If you did, you would know that even small differences in gear stats matter. And the difference between Ascended and Exotic isn’t small and will get larger with every new piece of Ascended that is released.

El Hefe.2814:

if you don’t find the fotm dungeon fun. don’t do it. the gear you get from it allows you to progress in it. it’s not required to have fun.

But I have to do it because I sooner or later lose the fun in other parts of the game otherwise.

Corvindi.5734:

El Hefe.2814:

if you don’t find the fotm dungeon fun. don’t do it. the gear you get from it allows you to progress in it. it’s not required to have fun.

You don’t play WvW, do you? You don’t seriously PvP in any game, do you? If you did, you would know that even small differences in gear stats matter. And the difference between Ascended and Exotic isn’t small and will get larger with every new piece of Ascended that is released.

wvw is already unbalanced. lvl 2’s can fight lvl 80’s.

Hefe, it’s cool that you enjoy playing, but playing dumb while other people provide you with numerous different and (also) true aspects isn’t.

I mean, you constantly keep repeating “if it’s not fun, stop playing” and “gear is optional”. You constantly disregard the fact that people WANT to play GW2 and are upset about changes they think undermine that experience. It’s not hard to understand, why are you playing like you don’t? I mean, OF COURSE, if someone is brought to the point of quitting the game, he will quit and nobody is going to die or anything similar. But, that certainly isn’t the only factor in the equation and please don’t try to present it as such.

It’s basically like this:

dude: – the swimming pool in our town is garbage. The pumps are not working and overall it’s kitteny. The town has the means to repair it, but they won’t. The citizens are pretty upset with it, as they see no reason for ignoring that situation.

hefe: -swimming in a pool is not mandatory, it’s optional. Not like your sewer isn’t working. Also, I have heard your town has some excellent ice cream vendors, there must be stuff you like to do in your town.

I mean, you CAN’T put everything in the “if you don’t like it, don’t do it, it’s optional” perspective. If you dumb down the whole concept of a video game experience to that level than yes, EVERYTHING is optional, including the video game itself.

But
that
is
not
the
point

p.s.
I am sorry for the bitter tone of my post, but honestly, I feel like I am watching bunch of people making fools of themselves trying to talk to a person that simply refuses to discuss anything outside his own approach, just for the sake of it, but that didn’t stopped him from making a thread about it…

p.p.s.
Personally, I am not concerned about recent changes as I don’t mind having gear treadmill – and this is important for the point – despite being an extremely casual player that is certain to drop out of all the groups as I have about 3-4 hours per week to play AND I am a solo player. So I am bound to playing SPVP, getting steamrolled in WvWvW or smelling flowers across Tyria. When I get tired of that, I would quit, pause, or, if possible, raise my game to a next level.
So, you see, I am going by your philosophy maybe more than you do, Hefe.
Which doesn’t mean I don’t understand what others are saying. And I don’t believe you don’t either. Hence this post.

El Hefe.2814:

Corvindi.5734:

El Hefe.2814:

if you don’t find the fotm dungeon fun. don’t do it. the gear you get from it allows you to progress in it. it’s not required to have fun.

You don’t play WvW, do you? You don’t seriously PvP in any game, do you? If you did, you would know that even small differences in gear stats matter. And the difference between Ascended and Exotic isn’t small and will get larger with every new piece of Ascended that is released.

wvw is already unbalanced. lvl 2’s can fight lvl 80’s.

I lvl 2 can fight and win with an 80, only if the lvl 80 is really unskilled.
This argument is without any sense.

El Hefe.2814:

Corvindi.5734:

El Hefe.2814:

if you don’t find the fotm dungeon fun. don’t do it. the gear you get from it allows you to progress in it. it’s not required to have fun.

You don’t play WvW, do you? You don’t seriously PvP in any game, do you? If you did, you would know that even small differences in gear stats matter. And the difference between Ascended and Exotic isn’t small and will get larger with every new piece of Ascended that is released.

wvw is already unbalanced. lvl 2’s can fight lvl 80’s.

They can, but not well. Not 1v1. But there was a short end to that for anyone who wanted to reach max level and farm exotics in a matter of days (or less, many people had most of what they needed saved by the time they got to level 80). And no dungeons were required to reach that parity.

The Ascended armor has changed all of that.

@Doolio – no your p.p.s sums it up pretty good. it’s so simple it’s confusing. just play til your not having fun anymore.

There are no “Raids” in GW2.

But we seem to be unable to leave that mindset behind.

Corvindi.5734:

El Hefe.2814:

Corvindi.5734:

El Hefe.2814:

if you don’t find the fotm dungeon fun. don’t do it. the gear you get from it allows you to progress in it. it’s not required to have fun.

You don’t play WvW, do you? You don’t seriously PvP in any game, do you? If you did, you would know that even small differences in gear stats matter. And the difference between Ascended and Exotic isn’t small and will get larger with every new piece of Ascended that is released.

wvw is already unbalanced. lvl 2’s can fight lvl 80’s.

They can, but not well. Not 1v1. But there was a short end to that for anyone who wanted to reach max level and farm exotics in a matter of days (or less, many people had most of what they needed saved by the time they got to level 80). And no dungeons were required to reach that parity.

The Ascended armor has changed all of that.

so it’s more acceptable and fair that a lvl 80 can face a lvl 2 in WvW, then it is for a lvl 80 with +5 stats to fight another lvl 80? or what about the full exotic 80’s against fresh 80’s with rares on. because “even the small differences in gear stats matter”. but they didnt for the first 10weeks. it was acceptable. anet has also told you that this new gear will be available in wvw at some point. no dungeons required.

Xpiher.5209:

We aren’t trying to convince you. We are trying to convince ANET that they messed up. If you play MMOs for gear treadmill and progression then I have to ask, why did you buy GW2 in the first place?

Arenanet stated repeatedly for years that their Guild Wars product would not have “gear stat progression.” So I am also wondering why anyone would buy GW2 expecting vertical gear progression.

Worse, why would you try to change a core feature of the product?

Do you dislike 2d platforming and then ask that Super Mario change to a 3d view? Do you hate 1st person view and being killed all the time, and then ask Call of Duty to change to 3rd person and limit people’s kills per match?

Even if you do demand radical design changes to the core of a game, do those companies listen to you and do it? No. Super Mario will remain in 2d. COD will remain in 1st person and let you kill away. Why? Because they know who their core customer base is and they will not risk losing them.

El Hefe.2814:

Corvindi.5734:

El Hefe.2814:

Corvindi.5734:

El Hefe.2814:

if you don’t find the fotm dungeon fun. don’t do it. the gear you get from it allows you to progress in it. it’s not required to have fun.

You don’t play WvW, do you? You don’t seriously PvP in any game, do you? If you did, you would know that even small differences in gear stats matter. And the difference between Ascended and Exotic isn’t small and will get larger with every new piece of Ascended that is released.

wvw is already unbalanced. lvl 2’s can fight lvl 80’s.

They can, but not well. Not 1v1. But there was a short end to that for anyone who wanted to reach max level and farm exotics in a matter of days (or less, many people had most of what they needed saved by the time they got to level 80). And no dungeons were required to reach that parity.

The Ascended armor has changed all of that.

so it’s more acceptable and fair that a lvl 80 can face a lvl 2 in WvW, then it is for a lvl 80 with +5 stats to fight another lvl 80? or what about the full exotic 80’s against fresh 80’s with rares on. because “even the small differences in gear stats matter”. but they didnt for the first 10weeks. it was acceptable. anet has also told you that this new gear will be available in wvw at some point. no dungeons required.

Actually, I said from the beginning that I wished it were like sPvP, with everyone equal from level 1. But it seemed a fair compromise that while leveling you were less effective but then at 80 you could get gear on par with anyone in a very short amount of time without ever having to do dungeons.

As it turned out, there were issues with badge gear, especially for anyone not regularly grouping in WvW because it is much slower to get your set that way than through dungeons. I always hated that. I also hated that the badge gear didn’t have stat variety. So no, it was never perfect, but it was tolerable. This is so much worse it’s not even funny.

First, you have to do dungeons. No way around it. If you don’t and they add new ways to get this gear later, it doesn’t matter, you’re still far behind anyone who runs dungeons even if you play far more often and skillfully doing what you think is fun while they grind.

Second, it takes far longer to get this gear and if you want to short cut it by spending gold you will almost certainly be buying gems and exchanging them for that gold because it’s far too costly to buy the mats off the TP for an average person just playing for fun.

Like I said, I’ve played for nothing but fun from day one, to my own detriment as far as WvW goes. Now they have added this new tier of gear that puts me forever behind in WvW unless I want to do things I don’t find fun for hundreds of hours, yet here this thread is telling me play for fun?