Guild Wars 2

Raf.1078:

There are no “Raids” in GW2.

But we seem to be unable to leave that mindset behind.

Not yet

El Hefe.2814:

Mountain Man.7901:

El Hefe.2814:

phooka.4295:

xiv.7136:

Xpiher.5209:

There isn’t any YET. New content will require you to be geared in agony resistance to do it.

So you’re concerned about something that hasn’t happened, that hasn’t been announced and is clearly not going to happen?

Sigh.

When the new gear was announced, it was said that there would be a point beyond which you won’t be able to advance without it.

for the new dungeon right? if you want to do the new dungeon you can.

Not just new dungeons. Future content as well:

This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

Note that infusions aren’t simply to “give you an edge” but are required to complete the Fractal of the Mists dungeon. It’s rather obvious from that quote that the majority of future content will be locked behind gear-checks, which pretty much does away with ArenaNet’s promise of no-grind horizontal progression.

You have to be deliberately obtuse not to recognize this.

if you don’t find the fotm dungeon fun. don’t do it. the gear you get from it allows you to progress in it. it’s not required to have fun.

So you’re sticking with “deliberately obtuse”. Fair enough.

The more gear checks and gated content they introduce (and you’d have to be naive to think that FotM is the end of it), the less fun it will be for me. Already it’s not much fun to trigger a world event and have only a few other people show up, especially when there aren’t enough other players to actually beat the boss. That problem is only going to get worse if ArenaNet continues on this trajectory.

El Hefe.2814:

Corvindi.5734:

El Hefe.2814:

Corvindi.5734:

El Hefe.2814:

if you don’t find the fotm dungeon fun. don’t do it. the gear you get from it allows you to progress in it. it’s not required to have fun.

You don’t play WvW, do you? You don’t seriously PvP in any game, do you? If you did, you would know that even small differences in gear stats matter. And the difference between Ascended and Exotic isn’t small and will get larger with every new piece of Ascended that is released.

wvw is already unbalanced. lvl 2’s can fight lvl 80’s.

They can, but not well. Not 1v1. But there was a short end to that for anyone who wanted to reach max level and farm exotics in a matter of days (or less, many people had most of what they needed saved by the time they got to level 80). And no dungeons were required to reach that parity.

The Ascended armor has changed all of that.

so it’s more acceptable and fair that a lvl 80 can face a lvl 2 in WvW, then it is for a lvl 80 with +5 stats to fight another lvl 80? or what about the full exotic 80’s against fresh 80’s with rares on. because “even the small differences in gear stats matter”. but they didnt for the first 10weeks. it was acceptable. anet has also told you that this new gear will be available in wvw at some point. no dungeons required.

http://www.gw2db.com/items

only +5 points uh?

axiology.5807:

El Hefe.2814:

Logun.2349:

The question were not that hard, Do you like to PvP/WvW , Do you like jumping puzzles? …… and I’ll add one more, Do you like making your character as powerful as they can be?

i find parts of pve, spvp, and wvw fun. which i play depends on my mood. im not overly concerned with gear.

Well, some people ARE concerned with gear, not just because of personal gearing, but for the implications it has on the game as a whole. They care about the fundamental change ascended gear has brought to the game.

Why are you trying to convince these people that they should be as unconcerned as you are with regards to gear?

I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything, in fact I sympathize with those that were shocked by this new gear I don’t think any of us seen this coming or expected this with the whey this game was marketed or the way the endgame was outlined to us.

That said I feel the gear is less of a concern then the fact that we have less options and reduced freedom of how we explore the elder game. That and the separation and disconnect this brings to the community.

Here’s my feeling on that…. I suggest reading the entire thread
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-New-GW2-Flavor-Rocks/page/2#post812793

Xpiher.5209:

Raf.1078:

There are no “Raids” in GW2.

But we seem to be unable to leave that mindset behind.

Not yet

I’m betting there will be within the next year or so, especially if a certain MMO that seems to be copying a lot of the good GW2 innovations announces that it will have raids.

Also, why not? They’re forcing people into dungeons for gear. Only dungeon runners are going to be happy about that, and dungeon runners and raiders are closely related on the MMO family tree.

This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

I’m really not sure how people cannot see it, Future content will need it… saying it might might not is irrelevant, they have said it will need it for future content, that is where i draw the line, i loved this game (even in its horrible buggy state)..

But this whole write up literally killed all my fun i had. I do not want to grind my life away and be forced into gear treadmills or be excluded from (future) and now! content cause i play different to others, i just want to play the game casually and enjoy myself.

This above tells me i will not and cannot play casually anymore, so do i jump on the treadmill or walk away…. I’m pretty sure i’ll walk away as soon as they force me to do stuff i do not want to do..

@Dante.1508:
The quote you give does not say that ascended gear or infusion is required to play future content, only that future content will gradually provide more ascended gear and infusion variety, as well as more ways to obtain them. Nowhere does it say that casual play will exclude you from ever acquiring ascended items.

You are free to suspect ArenaNet from doing the things you accuse them of, but they have not SAID anything of the sort. However, it is your suspicions that are “literally killing all your fun”, not anything ArenaNet actually said.

If things actually turn out like you fear, then I shall reassess my own position. But right now, I just don’t see it as a suspicion fueled by mass hysteria, not as a reality.

“im sick of all this kitten on these forums. if you guys feel like your grinding or being forced to do something then don’t do it.”

Apparently, some ppl don’t know how to read. If you want to be able compete in WVW, you are going to have to get Ascend gear because of the increased stats.

If you don’t get it, you will always be at a disadvantage. Thats not a far and level playing ground. I’m not interested in that, but you go ahead and keep paying them for more gear grind that will eventually end up in WVW.

To people saying stop being emo…. I ask you to not be naive and see the big picture. See a few months down the road… We can’t predict the future with certainty, but where do you honestly believe Ascended gear and the fractal leveling system will lead us in 3-6 months? What will map chat look like? What will Tyria look like?

I predict:
Empty zones
Empty orr
Far less people running old dungeons
“LFM FoTM lvl 30+, 3 piece ascended, 80 only, pst”

What I do not think youll see is:
Zones as full as they are now(or before the patch)
Kharma grinding in Orr
Farming old dungeon sets for aesthetics
“LFM, FoTM lvl 5, pst”. Instead, you’ll see “LFG, fotm lvl 5, pst” x 3 by one person, only to get map chat suppressed(it continues to happen to me).

Godorn.2931:

“im sick of all this kitten on these forums. if you guys feel like your grinding or being forced to do something then don’t do it.”

Apparently, some ppl don’t know how to read. If you want to be able compete in WVW, you are going to have to get Ascend gear because of the increased stats.

If you don’t get it, you will always be at a disadvantage. Thats not a far and level playing ground. I’m not interested in that, but you go ahead and keep paying them for more gear grind that will eventually end up in WVW.

so fighting lvl 2’s at lvl 80 is a fair and level playing ground? wvw is imbalanced.

Corvindi.5734:

Xpiher.5209:

Raf.1078:

There are no “Raids” in GW2.

But we seem to be unable to leave that mindset behind.

Not yet

I’m betting there will be within the next year or so, especially if a certain MMO that seems to be copying a lot of the good GW2 innovations announces that it will have raids.

Also, why not? They’re forcing people into dungeons for gear. Only dungeon runners are going to be happy about that, and dungeon runners and raiders are closely related on the MMO family tree.

No one is forcing anyone into anything. The choice to play in any fashion resides purely with the individual. There is no “grind” in this game unless you choose to play it that way.

After over 700 hrs of play time…I have at most 35% map completion on any one character. And I’ve run a total of 2 dungeons…and then only because a Guildie wanted some help.

I can step into GW2 on any alt and just….go play…not grind. Really, I think I’m the type of player GW2 had in mind when they were designing the game. What they didn’t foresee was the influx of raiders and content locusts. So, perhaps that was shortsighted on their part.

One more thing to add:

For the last three months I have had an absolute blast in the game. It was perfect. Twice I had bought gems to reward arenanet for being great developers. I didn’t need the gems, but gave them some money to help keep the game kickin’.

My wife and I exchange christmas lists to make it easier to buy stuff for eachother…(cute right?). On there, I put GW2 Gem Cards. Being the awsome wife she is(and hates games), she bought two gem cards(15 bucks each) at gamestop. A week later, this patch hits and my love for GW2 takes a nose dive. I am unsure if I want to wait it out and see if Arenanet fixes some of the damage they’ve caused, or just head back to WoW(to which I’ve resubbed since reading about ascended gear..if I am going to run the treadmill, I’ll do it in a game that does it right). My wife is upset because I may not use those gem cards.

Arenanet lost my trust, and will not get another dime from me, even if I continue playing. I used to reward them because I was having fun. Now it is a chore. It is a chore to run those fractals. I love them, I think they are unique and a genius piece of development. And if the fractals were all that was added I would have NO problem. But along with fractals comes ascended gear and fractal levels. So I am having a blast while in the dungeon, and then feel like “Crap, I better get back in there and run the next FoTM to keep up”.

Instead of fun being constant in GW2, it fluctuates now. One day, it is going to catch me at a bad time and I am just going to give up and leave.

You already have lost a paying customer. Its up to you to make the game less of a chore, and fun again before I even consider spending a penny in your cash shop.

El Hefe.2814:

Godorn.2931:

“im sick of all this kitten on these forums. if you guys feel like your grinding or being forced to do something then don’t do it.”

Apparently, some ppl don’t know how to read. If you want to be able compete in WVW, you are going to have to get Ascend gear because of the increased stats.

If you don’t get it, you will always be at a disadvantage. Thats not a far and level playing ground. I’m not interested in that, but you go ahead and keep paying them for more gear grind that will eventually end up in WVW.

so fighting lvl 2’s at lvl 80 is a fair and level playing ground? wvw is imbalanced.

Strawman.

El Hefe.2814:

Godorn.2931:

“im sick of all this kitten on these forums. if you guys feel like your grinding or being forced to do something then don’t do it.”

Apparently, some ppl don’t know how to read. If you want to be able compete in WVW, you are going to have to get Ascend gear because of the increased stats.

If you don’t get it, you will always be at a disadvantage. Thats not a far and level playing ground. I’m not interested in that, but you go ahead and keep paying them for more gear grind that will eventually end up in WVW.

so fighting lvl 2’s at lvl 80 is a fair and level playing ground? wvw is imbalanced.

Lol you seem a broken record.
A lvl 2 player on WvW KNOW THAT IS NOT ABLE TO COMPETE WITH A LVL 80 SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME, it go on WvW on its own risk.

A lvl 80 with exo vs a lvl 80 with ascendent, its the real unbalance. its so hard to understand?

The game is so much fun.

The update was just the shot in the arm it needed to make PVE fun for high levels. To be honest I didn’t really find myself drawn to the old dungeons.

But getting more bag space and new type of dungeon has given my level 80 character a new life.

ANet is one of the best devs on the planet… unfortunately transplanting some other MMO communities has added a lot of people here with no experience with them. I’m disappointed in those that are so excitable and constantly freaking out, but I guess they’ll have to take their time to realize that ANet is a different kind of company. They are listening and you don’t have to be all melodramatic every day.

El Hefe.2814:

Godorn.2931:

“im sick of all this kitten on these forums. if you guys feel like your grinding or being forced to do something then don’t do it.”

Apparently, some ppl don’t know how to read. If you want to be able compete in WVW, you are going to have to get Ascend gear because of the increased stats.

If you don’t get it, you will always be at a disadvantage. Thats not a far and level playing ground. I’m not interested in that, but you go ahead and keep paying them for more gear grind that will eventually end up in WVW.

so fighting lvl 2’s at lvl 80 is a fair and level playing ground? wvw is imbalanced.

I believe you and I just had this conversation. Now you’re just repeating yourself without actually defending your stance.

Ganzo.5079:

El Hefe.2814:

Godorn.2931:

“im sick of all this kitten on these forums. if you guys feel like your grinding or being forced to do something then don’t do it.”

Apparently, some ppl don’t know how to read. If you want to be able compete in WVW, you are going to have to get Ascend gear because of the increased stats.

If you don’t get it, you will always be at a disadvantage. Thats not a far and level playing ground. I’m not interested in that, but you go ahead and keep paying them for more gear grind that will eventually end up in WVW.

so fighting lvl 2’s at lvl 80 is a fair and level playing ground? wvw is imbalanced.

Lol you seem a broken record.
A lvl 2 player on WvW KNOW THAT IS NOT ABLE TO COMPETE WITH A LVL 80 SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME, it go on WvW on its own risk.

A lvl 80 with exo vs a lvl 80 with ascendent, its the real unbalance. its so hard to understand?

how is it anymore imbalanced than a lvl 80 in rares vs an 80 in exotics?

Hopefully my break down for why its not longer fun for me helps you understand this

1) I don’t like like being required to grind for gear
2) This new patch requires me to grind for gear now and in the future because not only does this gear have better stats (and so will the next pieces), but Agony will be required to participate in future content, ANET said it will be used in the future, you don’t get progression. This means, if I want to experience new content and be the best I can be in WvW I’m required to grind
3) MMORPGs are an overall process of character development and exploration. Its also a social. Thats why I prefer MMORPGs over single player games, even games like Skyrim. If I don’t like what the future holds, because it involves things I don’t like (vertical gear progression tied to RNG) I lose my desire to play.

1- You don´t have to. I don’t like puzzles so I don’t do puzzles.

2- No, Agony is required to participate in content that’s already implemented. Check your facts. From lvl 10 on fractal bosses will start using agony as an effect on you. So basically you are hoping your way up while getting tokens to get all the agony you need. And the Ascended gear you might want as well even though you won’t NEED it.

3 – How do you do character progression without gear progression? Grow a beard? Buy some new jeans?

Turtleofpower: You are stating that arenanet is some sort of awsome honest company. Are you aware that they have gone back on their manifesto, their principles of what guildwars 2 should be…are you aware WHY people are frustrated and leaving the game?

People bought GW2 for a few reasons:
-Played GW1
-No Gear Treadmill
-Awsome PVP
-PVE experience that rewards you with aesthetics, rather than statistics
-All contant is available to you at any time, provided you are of level(and in some cases, even when you are not of level).
-Dynamic world

At least three of these reasons were destroyed. People are upset. Its understandable. I am too. The people rushing to the game’s defense cannot diagnose us with a severe case of freaking out. There are way too many people with that diagnosis then.

El Hefe.2814:

Ganzo.5079:

El Hefe.2814:

Godorn.2931:

“im sick of all this kitten on these forums. if you guys feel like your grinding or being forced to do something then don’t do it.”

Apparently, some ppl don’t know how to read. If you want to be able compete in WVW, you are going to have to get Ascend gear because of the increased stats.

If you don’t get it, you will always be at a disadvantage. Thats not a far and level playing ground. I’m not interested in that, but you go ahead and keep paying them for more gear grind that will eventually end up in WVW.

so fighting lvl 2’s at lvl 80 is a fair and level playing ground? wvw is imbalanced.

Lol you seem a broken record.
A lvl 2 player on WvW KNOW THAT IS NOT ABLE TO COMPETE WITH A LVL 80 SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME, it go on WvW on its own risk.

A lvl 80 with exo vs a lvl 80 with ascendent, its the real unbalance. its so hard to understand?

how is it anymore imbalanced than a lvl 80 in rares vs an 80 in exotics?

have you look some values before talk? i guess no, otherwise you would not have posted this.

El Hefe.2814:

Ganzo.5079:

El Hefe.2814:

Godorn.2931:

“im sick of all this kitten on these forums. if you guys feel like your grinding or being forced to do something then don’t do it.”

Apparently, some ppl don’t know how to read. If you want to be able compete in WVW, you are going to have to get Ascend gear because of the increased stats.

If you don’t get it, you will always be at a disadvantage. Thats not a far and level playing ground. I’m not interested in that, but you go ahead and keep paying them for more gear grind that will eventually end up in WVW.

so fighting lvl 2’s at lvl 80 is a fair and level playing ground? wvw is imbalanced.

Lol you seem a broken record.
A lvl 2 player on WvW KNOW THAT IS NOT ABLE TO COMPETE WITH A LVL 80 SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME, it go on WvW on its own risk.

A lvl 80 with exo vs a lvl 80 with ascendent, its the real unbalance. its so hard to understand?

how is it anymore imbalanced than a lvl 80 in rares vs an 80 in exotics?

Stop substituting the argument of your opponent for your own that you deem “equivalent” when it clearly isn’t.

The difference between moving from rare to exotic is a small hop.
The difference between moving from exotic to ascended is a giant leap.

They aren’t equivalent jumps.

Agenteusa.6380:

3 – How do you do character progression without gear progression? Grow a beard? Buy some new jeans?[/quote]

This game is not about character progression. Why on earth do people believe it is? This isnt a character progression MMO. You hit 80, you complete your story. Its up to you where to go next, much like the rest of your leveling experience. Up to you.
Theres no character progression.

Until the patch.

Now there is.

Time and time again Anet said no treadmill, Legendaries will have the same stats as exotics, etc etc. This is not opinion or heresay, rather it is fact. No character progression. I am unsure where you got the idea that GW2 would allow you to progress your character and become more and more powerful at max level. Infact, Anet said that “endgame doesnt start at 80, it starts at 1. We arent going to create an entirely new game for you at 80, it will be the same you’ve been playing”.

To put that last sentence into prespective:

My 1-80 experience was:
-Progressing through story
-exploration
-Map completion
-Running a few dungeons(didnt do many, maybe two while leveling?)
-crafting
-Treasure hunting
-DEs
-a bit of WvW

I hit 80, and my experience has been:
-Dungeon farming for a “cosmetic look” set.
-Finishing crafting
-Finishing story
-A bit of Orr, just for “fun” <- theres that word
-A dabble of WvW for “fun” <- there it is again
-Leveling alts, which returns me to the previous list.

Since the patch, my experience is:
-FoTM.

Why only FoTM? Because all other content is irellevant until I get to the level that eveyone else is with their FoTM level and ascended gear. THEN I can level my alts again. sounds like another MMO, doesnn’t it?

cesmode.4257:

Turtleofpower: You are stating that arenanet is some sort of awsome honest company. Are you aware that they have gone back on their manifesto, their principles of what guildwars 2 should be…are you aware WHY people are frustrated and leaving the game?

People bought GW2 for a few reasons:
-Played GW1
-No Gear Treadmill
-Awsome PVP
-PVE experience that rewards you with aesthetics, rather than statistics
-All contant is available to you at any time, provided you are of level(and in some cases, even when you are not of level).
-Dynamic world

At least three of these reasons were destroyed. People are upset. Its understandable. I am too. The people rushing to the game’s defense cannot diagnose us with a severe case of freaking out. There are way too many people with that diagnosis then.

Thats a huge assumption on your part. None of your reasons for purchasing this game applies to me. I bought this game because it looked cool and I was tired of the game I was playing.

All games have a huge influx of customers when the game rolls out…and all games have a regualr outflow of customers as people realize that the game isn’t providing them with what they thought they were getting.

People come, people go…

JFC, whine whine whine. Just quit already if people dont like it. Man I logged in today hoping Anet was going to mail me some legendary gear so I didnt have to work for it. nag nag nag nag nag nag nag

Casca Longinus.3168:

JFC, whine whine whine. Just quit already if people dont like it. Man I logged in today hoping Anet was going to mail me some legendary gear so I didnt have to work for it. nag nag nag nag nag nag nag

Ironic that you post about “work” in a thread with “fun” in the title. Need I say more?

Raf.1078:

cesmode.4257:

Turtleofpower: You are stating that arenanet is some sort of awsome honest company. Are you aware that they have gone back on their manifesto, their principles of what guildwars 2 should be…are you aware WHY people are frustrated and leaving the game?

People bought GW2 for a few reasons:
-Played GW1
-No Gear Treadmill
-Awsome PVP
-PVE experience that rewards you with aesthetics, rather than statistics
-All contant is available to you at any time, provided you are of level(and in some cases, even when you are not of level).
-Dynamic world

At least three of these reasons were destroyed. People are upset. Its understandable. I am too. The people rushing to the game’s defense cannot diagnose us with a severe case of freaking out. There are way too many people with that diagnosis then.

Thats a huge assumption on your part. None of your reasons for purchasing this game applies to me. I bought this game because it looked cool and I was tired of the game I was playing.

All games have a huge influx of customers when the game rolls out…and all games have a regualr outflow of customers as people realize that the game isn’t providing them with what they thought they were getting.

People come, people go…

What game did you play and why did you leave?

You are correct, that there is an ebb and flow of players in and out. But because of regular things. Not when a company goes against their ideals which is why , Id imagine, many people will leave because of.

Let me diagnose this :

The most verbal people seem to be previous GW1 players.
Your problem is not that ANet changed the manifesto (although I too think a company should stick to what its vision is but we all know visions can change through time) it’s that you want GW2 to be an upgraded GW1 and you refute any change that will put that in cause.

You are forgetting something though, it’s ANet’s vision not yours. ANet will change that vision as they see fit and you either accept it or move on to something that fulfills your requirements.

This game is not about character progression. Why on earth do people believe it is? This isnt a character progression MMO. You hit 80, you complete your story. Its up to you where to go next, much like the rest of your leveling experience. Up to you.
Theres no character progression.

So let’s be extreme then. I can’t see an rpg without character progression. Before being an mmo this game is an RPG. You seem to suggest then that you wouldn’t even need to lvl past lvl 1 and just have to farm for skins with everything handed out to everyone from the start so we all started on the same terms.

Is that it?

Seriously if you say GW2 isn’t about character progression I would like to know what you call from 1-80 and quite frankly after 80 it’s exactly the same except you don’t gain levels anymore. Think about it for a sec there.

TurtleofPower.5641:

The game is so much fun.

The update was just the shot in the arm it needed to make PVE fun for high levels. To be honest I didn’t really find myself drawn to the old dungeons.

But getting more bag space and new type of dungeon has given my level 80 character a new life.

ANet is one of the best devs on the planet… unfortunately transplanting some other MMO communities has added a lot of people here with no experience with them. I’m disappointed in those that are so excitable and constantly freaking out, but I guess they’ll have to take their time to realize that ANet is a different kind of company. They are listening and you don’t have to be all melodramatic every day.

And now for something completely different…

Thanks, I have a daily need for something Pythonesque and this filled it perfectly.

Many players don’t find the stuff available to do in a game “fun” if they cannot endlessly increase their stats.

Many players don’t find the stuff available to do in the game “fun” unless there is a permanent stat cap.

You can’t please both camps. GW2 was billed and sold as the latter, and after taking the money from that group for a successful launch, switched the structure of the game to serve the stat-treadmillers.

Don’t tell us to do what is fun; what fun there was in GW2 was only fun for many of us because of the hard stat cap. Without that, we might as well be playing Tera or WoW.

Xpiher.5209:

I’m not doing it, but not playing the game anymore. The game is no longer fun, to me, with the introduction of this patch. Is that so hard to understand?

Can I have your stuff? ;D

“Seriously if you say GW2 isn’t about character progression I would like to know what you call from 1-80 and quite frankly after 80 it’s exactly the same except you don’t gain levels anymore. Think about it for a sec there.”

The point isn’t that there is progression in the game; the point is that there was supposed to be a hard cap to progression. For many of us, the “progression” from 1-80 was ENDURABLE because we knew that eventually we’d have a permanently maxed out characters.

Agenteusa.6380:

Let me diagnose this :

The most verbal people seem to be previous GW1 players.
Your problem is not that ANet changed the manifesto (although I too think a company should stick to what its vision is but we all know visions can change through time) it’s that you want GW2 to be an upgraded GW1 and you refute any change that will put that in cause.

You are forgetting something though, it’s ANet’s vision not yours. ANet will change that vision as they see fit and you either accept it or move on to something that fulfills your requirements.

This game is not about character progression. Why on earth do people believe it is? This isnt a character progression MMO. You hit 80, you complete your story. Its up to you where to go next, much like the rest of your leveling experience. Up to you.
Theres no character progression.

So let’s be extreme then. I can’t see an rpg without character progression. Before being an mmo this game is an RPG. You seem to suggest then that you wouldn’t even need to lvl past lvl 1 and just have to farm for skins with everything handed out to everyone from the start so we all started on the same terms.

Is that it?

Seriously if you say GW2 isn’t about character progression I would like to know what you call from 1-80 and quite frankly after 80 it’s exactly the same except you don’t gain levels anymore. Think about it for a sec there.

I’d LOVE to play an MMOG without levels or any vertical character progression whatsoever.

Agenteusa.6380:

Let me diagnose this :

The most verbal people seem to be previous GW1 players.
Your problem is not that ANet changed the manifesto (although I too think a company should stick to what its vision is but we all know visions can change through time) it’s that you want GW2 to be an upgraded GW1 and you refute any change that will put that in cause.

You are forgetting something though, it’s ANet’s vision not yours. ANet will change that vision as they see fit and you either accept it or move on to something that fulfills your requirements.

This game is not about character progression. Why on earth do people believe it is? This isnt a character progression MMO. You hit 80, you complete your story. Its up to you where to go next, much like the rest of your leveling experience. Up to you.
Theres no character progression.

So let’s be extreme then. I can’t see an rpg without character progression. Before being an mmo this game is an RPG. You seem to suggest then that you wouldn’t even need to lvl past lvl 1 and just have to farm for skins with everything handed out to everyone from the start so we all started on the same terms.

Is that it?

Seriously if you say GW2 isn’t about character progression I would like to know what you call from 1-80 and quite frankly after 80 it’s exactly the same except you don’t gain levels anymore. Think about it for a sec there.

The difference is: People dont need to level to play this game. Create a char, hop right into sPvP or WVW.

Or just level through WvW without experiencing any of the story, DEs, or PVE content.

Now, since people in WvW will have ascended gear, the people that didnt want to experience any PVE will need to experience it, for a while until its added into WvW, in order to stay competitive(also assuming they’ve only leveled through WvW).

Ganzo.5079:

El Hefe.2814:

Ganzo.5079:

El Hefe.2814:

Godorn.2931:

“im sick of all this kitten on these forums. if you guys feel like your grinding or being forced to do something then don’t do it.”

Apparently, some ppl don’t know how to read. If you want to be able compete in WVW, you are going to have to get Ascend gear because of the increased stats.

If you don’t get it, you will always be at a disadvantage. Thats not a far and level playing ground. I’m not interested in that, but you go ahead and keep paying them for more gear grind that will eventually end up in WVW.

so fighting lvl 2’s at lvl 80 is a fair and level playing ground? wvw is imbalanced.

Lol you seem a broken record.
A lvl 2 player on WvW KNOW THAT IS NOT ABLE TO COMPETE WITH A LVL 80 SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME, it go on WvW on its own risk.

A lvl 80 with exo vs a lvl 80 with ascendent, its the real unbalance. its so hard to understand?

how is it anymore imbalanced than a lvl 80 in rares vs an 80 in exotics?

have you look some values before talk? i guess no, otherwise you would not have posted this.

you’re right i don’t know the values. i could have said a lvl 80 in uncommon gear. or lvl 80 in lvl 76 gear. it doesnt matter. the fact remains that wvw has never been balanced and never will be.

I don’t give a kitten about the grind, will not do it. When content comes along that can not be handled without having Ascended gear from grind I will just quit the game and move on. Til then I will still be a happy camper in GW2, might visit the fractals sometimes for fun but that is it.

Yes, games are supposed to be about fun. Yes, you can do most of GW2’s content regardless of your gear level.

However, there are apparently a lot of people playing them whose fun consists, at least in part, of getting the best available gear for their character(s). If this were not true, there would have been no reason to create Ascended Gear.

The people whose fun consists, at least in part, of getting the best gear exist in two camps. One camp favors increased gear stats locked behind gated content. The other favors multiple paths to get the best gear, so that they can do whichever content they find the most fun and also get the fun of getting and knowing they have optimized. Based on GW2’s pre-launch advertising, which of these two camps was the game aimed at?

The first-campers apparently did not read these advertisements and came here anyway. They then complained about “no incentive” and were listened to. Now, the second camp is complaining that ANet reneged on their promises, and these complaints are correct.

So, yes, OP. This is indeed about fun. Your definition of what’s fun is going to apply to some people, but it does not apply to everyone.

@ Cesmode

I played EQ2 for 4 years. A bunch of other games before that. I left because I had completed all the available content. Over and over.

GW2’s art style is refreshing and its all new. I’m more pragmatic in that I think a lot of the GW2 marketing (re: The Manifesto) was just hype to begin with. So if they aren’t exactly hewing to their marketing claims…its no biggie to me. Doesn’t really change the game for my style of play.

I figure I can play here for several years easily on just the content available now. Not even taking into consideration what might be coming up.

I love getting my kitten handed to me by people with far superior gear. So fun. In fact, I currently do WvW in whites for just this reason. In a couple of months, once ascended gear has permeated the community, I think I’ll be able to upgrade to blues and still be assured of losing every engagement. Thanks ANet! This is exactly what I wanted.

Raf.1078:

@ Cesmode

I played EQ2 for 4 years. A bunch of other games before that. I left because I had completed all the available content. Over and over.

GW2’s art style is refreshing and its all new. I’m more pragmatic in that I think a lot of the GW2 marketing (re: The Manifesto) was just hype to begin with. So if they aren’t exactly hewing to their marketing claims…its no biggie to me. Doesn’t really change the game for my style of play.

I figure I can play here for several years easily on just the content available now. Not even taking into consideration what might be coming up.

I seriously wish I had your mentality, as well as everyone else that doesnt see all of this as a problem. I really do… but I always look at the big picture, several steps down the road. Always have always will, with anything in life. Whether it suits me well or just explodes into negativity, or a combo of both, I still do it. Its part of my nature. And my nature tells me that ascended gear + fractal levels will lead to a divided community, player gated content, frustration, gear treadmill and ultimately arenanet trying to morph GW2 into another WoW clone with no raids(they will mask this with a 10man fractal dungeon). Im calling it now

But again, I digress, I wish i had your mentality.
Wonder if I can look in my spellbook for such a mentality.

El Hefe.2814:

@Doolio – no your p.p.s sums it up pretty good. it’s so simple it’s confusing. just play til your not having fun anymore.

Very funny indeed, but I thank you for proving my point by your post.

El Hefe.2814:

@Doolio – no your p.p.s sums it up pretty good. it’s so simple it’s confusing. just play til your not having fun anymore.

Very funny indeed, but I thank you for proving my point by your post.

Agenteusa.6380:

So let’s be extreme then. I can’t see an rpg without character progression.

It is your fault, if you don’t. See, if you spell RPG you find a lot about playing a role in this concept but nothing about leveling.

Sure, it is common to have leveling in most RPGs on the market now. But it is not a inherent feature of the role playing game.

PS: The discussion here is something I have every second time a DnD-players comes into a DSA or Shadowrun group. “What? We a through the module and still the same level???” “What? I got two levels more and still cant fight dozen of orcs alone?” You can just shake your head…

The ironic thing is that my gameplay would probably hardly be affected by the addition of ascended gear at all. I could still be leveling alts and plaything through the now-empty explorable areas if I had any will to.

Not only that, but in reality, who’s in a better position than me to contribute the sort of grinding time necessary to get or do whatever? I have the time. I could be one of those people playing hours a day and getting ahead of everyone else.

But I won’t run in their hamster wheel, and I can’t go back to playing as usual. All I feel is anger and disappointment. I felt dirty just logging in for a few minutes earlier to see exactly how high material costs had skyrocketed.

Although I vehemently oppose its addition to the game, ascended gear itself isn’t what has made playing the game an impossibility for me. It is Anet’s apostasy that has sucked the fun out of the game. There’s no cure for that, whatever they do or don’t do in future.

It wasn’t as fun as GW before the patch, and it stopped being GW after the patch.

What exactly do you want us to enjoy? Anet (or maybe Nexon) is misunderstanding something. I was only going through the tedious leveling process because I had hopes that the only reason why the game was not as content-full as Guild Wars was because they simply had no time to finish it. When the game was released it still felt like a beta. In the first few days they kept adding new things like the ability to craft from storage, ect.The game was not refined. The only reason why I was playing because I expected them to further elaborate the game, just like how they did with Guild Wars.

I wasn’t playing the game because I was enjoying grinding through 80 level of mostly-boring content. I was playing because I was waiting for 5 years for this game and I had high hopes even after the slippery release.

I had high hopes that they will work on the skill system some more, solve the issue with the emtpty towns, the storage placements, the traveling costs, the missing emotes, the enemy AI, the uncostumizable interface, the dead economy, or the pay2aquire legendaries.

Guild Wars became fun on the long run too. Many of us were expecting the same here, even though this game was not even nearly as fun as Guild Wars when Guild Wars first came out. But still, we had high hopes because Guild Wars had a lot of game mechanics changed too, like the attribute refunds, so we expected the same here. I expected the same here. I was saying it to my friends that “the good thing about Guild Wars is that even if something is not perfect or outright wrong, the devs will eventually alter it, modify it, change it into something good”.

I think most of us Guild Wars fans were very proud of having a dev team like Anet who was willing to go back of design choices when they saw that the designs were not working out very well. Such sincerity in the industry was so rare that it was almost nonexistant; most devs had their heads high up where the sun doesn’t shine and they cared more about face than about right and wrong.

So that is what the new patch killed.
It killed the hope that the game is going into the right direction.

So why should I level my characters now? Like I said, leveling was not fun. I did it so I could enjoy content when content arrives. I bought armor and weapons for the same reason. I designed the outlook of my character, just like in Guild Wars, not expecting the value of my equipment to go down.

I was preparing to play the game, not playing it.

But the content never arrived, instead they implemented a carrot, most likely because either NCsoft of Nexon told them to.

So I lost my incentive to progress because I do not see what I am progressing towards to. I will not grind for armor so I could do a dungeon to grind for higher armor that I can use to grind in a higher dungeon for higher armor.

That is not Guild Wars.
That is WoW.
That kitten is the reason why I was playing Guild Wars and not WoW.

End of story.

El Hefe.2814:

im sick of all this kitten on these forums. if you guys feel like your grinding or being forced to do something then don’t do it. the premise is really simple. Play the game for fun. have fun with the game. when you stop having fun take a break. you aren’t being forced to farm/grind or whatever else you want to call it. it’s not required to do anything in the game. so just remember it’s a game, have fun. if your not having fun, take a break. you already bought the game and it will be here when you’re ready to have fun again.

I guess if you love getting curb stomped by better geared players in WvWvW, then we can take your advice and not get ascended gear.

That is not Guild Wars.
That is WoW.
That kitten is the reason why I was playing Guild Wars and not WoW.

End of story.

Guild wars is whatever ANet decides it to be. If they decide to implement unicorns tomorrow they can and that will be a part of Guild Wars.

End of story.

El Hefe.2814:

Xpiher.5209:

El Hefe.2814:

Xpiher.5209:

Ryuujin.8236:

Can someone just clarify this for me: What changed?

People are saying the game is no longer fun, but the game that existed before the patch is still here. They simply added new content.

If the old content was fun, why are you trying to do things that are un-fun? Why not stick to the stuff you find to be fun? (I personally hate sPvP so I don’t sPvP. Problem solved)

I already explained it to you. Grinding on a treadmill for hours a day to get the best gear, that will be required for future content, has killed all motivation to play, thus making the rest of the game not fun.

can’t seem to find this ‘required for future content’ info. care to share a link?

Ok

Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion, but we feel it’s important to strive to satisfy the basic needs of our players sooner rather than later…

So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content[that content being agony system].

This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features.

That clear enough for you https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

still looking for the required part. this is required to have fun?

The “required part” is what people are trying to prevent from happening. Gating new content towards only the players with the best equipment. And preventing other players from enjoying the whole game.

It’s clear that everyone who says that Ascended gear is gonna matter in any way in WvW has never actually played WvW, other then maybe enter for an hour to get the monthly.
No serious WvW player will ever complain about Ascended gear, it’s not PVP where everyone is the same. The difference in gear is and will always be so great across the board that 5% increase to few players now and then is just laughable. This is not WoW, skill and coordination matters a lot more in WvW then some 5% more stats.

The OP is right, there are so many things in this game you can do to have fun that have nothing to do with Ascended. Ascended is ONLY for FotM, everywhere else it just doesn’t matter. It’s not “required” any more then a legendary is required.

I do play GW2 because it is fun.

Everyone has their own perspective of fun. It’s a shame that some people choose to jump on the flaming band-wagon instead of seeing the silver lining.

But hey, I will continue to have fun until changes cause me so much stress or boredom that I do not want to log on.

For those who are still having fun. I’ll see you in-game.
For those who are not having fun. Who knows.

Columba.9730:

I guess if you love getting curb stomped by better geared players in WvWvW, then we can take your advice and not get ascended gear.

If this is happening, it has nothing to do with gear, it’s just because you are getting curbstomped by better players.

Get better at the game.

3% total stat difference changes nothing.