Guild Wars 2

We’ve given feedback. When will the team listen to us and/or answer our concerns?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Game-Updates-Guild-World-Events-Megaservers-WvW/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Game-Updates-Traits/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feedback-Questions-MegaServer/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Megaservers-and-RP/first

Now, I don’t expect developers to rush in and answer every little nit-picky complaint and issue, but these threads contain thousands of posts including everything from sarcastic comments, to real solutions to many of the issues raised by the April patch.

For me, the total lack of recognition shown regarding these problems is just killing my enthusiasm for the game. I am sure there are many others like me.

Can we please have at least one post saying “We have read and are looking into the issues raised”? I don’t know how much longer I can hold on to GW2 in the hopes of an improvement.

GuzziHero.2467:

Can we please have at least one post saying “We have read and are looking into the issues raised”? I don’t know how much longer I can hold on to GW2 in the hopes of an improvement.

The kitten storm that would follow if anyone did that now would be amazing. Someone should have been jumping in every few pages at the start with that sort of comment.

Feedback is collected and passed on to the devs, who consider the issues raised and discuss possible solutions. Then they decide on a plan, develop and test the changes before they are added to the game. This process can take days for emergency fixes, to weeks to months for less urgent matters.

These things happen internally, players are not consulted during the process and changes are usually announced a week or two before they go live. What you are asking for simply is not going to happen. They are collecting feedback, not engaging in a CDI-like discussion.

Alot of the things that we see in-game today were player-suggested, taking the game forward wether to the better or the worse.

There are far too many aspects to this and plenty of good reasons why they dont do it.
Primary amongst which it will probably change absolutely nothing.

Consider they do post We’re looking into this and nothing happens for 6 months would the reaction of someone who wanted that change be?
Bet for the most part it would be, ahh they just lie to us, say they’ll look into something and then dont really do it. while there could be a ton of reasons why nothing happened in 6 months.

- change requires more time to implement
- they did evaluate it and decided its good as it is
- they implemented a change else where to lessen the impact but for the most part decided to leave it as is
- something else needs to be changed before they can deploy the actual change as it depends on it

They said it plenty of times that they do read the forums and they do take these threads seriously and we did see changes related to some of these threads even though we heard no feed back from Anet themselves on the subject. The moment they post any kind of feedback though people will consider it a promise, a commitment either way and that in turn will create certain expectations that are likely to do more harm then good.

Personally Im not quite sure whether they do not post because of the shätstorm that may or may not follow. I think they do not post anymore because they simply cannot deliver whatever ‘promises’ they make. Being a software engineer myself, I cant help but feel that based on the content and quality they are delivering at the moment, they have a team of < 10 working on everything (dev, gfx, writers etc.).

Its a win. The players that like the changes are still here.

The players who dislike the changes and can’t find a better game they haven’t already played for years are still here.

The players who could not accept the changes are long gone.

New players wonder what all the fuss is about.

Seems an effective strategy.

Unfortunately, for many games, players opinions goes against what is in the best interest of the game. Players usually only see one side and not much of the data that can be mined form the game, like A.Net sees.

As an example, I will throw out Rift, which was hacked to death by Trion in order to appease the players and the game turned into garbage. The game was a 2 faction game. Players wanted 3 faction fights and Trion came up with this weird religious thing – following one of three gods and it made a mockery of itself.

Trying to appease players is not always in the best interest of the game.

What I think makes it worse is that they have the new Points of Interest segment which actually doesn’t tell us much of interest! If you see what the playerbase is interested in, which are the largest threads still running, most of them address the April 15 patch. Still nothing is being said.

To me, that feels like Anet is turning away from me whilst I am trying to voice my concerns. It feels like an insult.

The largest threads still running aren’t necessarily what “the players” are interested in. It’s what the players have come to the forums to complain about are interested in. So I go to reddit and I see completely different threads. Lots of people posting different opinions. Tell me, why are the threads so different on reddit?

Oh, I know. They’re peer moderated. People downvote stuff they don’t like (even if they shouldn’t) and it vanishes. That doesn’t happen here. Two, three, five guys here can keep a thread going forever. But if you count individual names in those threads, for and against, you’ll find that a long held thread doesn’t mean community agreement. It doesn’t mean everyone is saying the same thing, or that it agrees with anything else.

Hell 2 people arguing can keep a thread going for months and months. I’ve seen it happen.

But in a place like reddit, which is actually run by the community a lot of this stuff doesn’t get the same fraction. I wonder why?

Vayne.8563:

The largest threads still running aren’t necessarily what “the players” are interested in. It’s what the players have come to the forums to complain about are interested in. So I go to reddit and I see completely different threads. Lots of people posting different opinions. Tell me, why are the threads so different on reddit?

Oh, I know. They’re peer moderated. People downvote stuff they don’t like (even if they shouldn’t) and it vanishes. That doesn’t happen here. Two, three, five guys here can keep a thread going forever. But if you count individual names in those threads, for and against, you’ll find that a long held thread doesn’t mean community agreement. It doesn’t mean everyone is saying the same thing, or that it agrees with anything else.

Hell 2 people arguing can keep a thread going for months and months. I’ve seen it happen.

But in a place like reddit, which is actually run by the community a lot of this stuff doesn’t get the same fraction. I wonder why?

This is true, Vayne. As an example the same two forum members have started 6 threads about PRO-mount in the last month. That does not mean, because there are 6 pro-mount threads, that people on the forum want them. It just means these forum members are so adamant that they keep hammering the same point. In reddit, they would have been down voted and disappear. On this forum nothing like that happens.

nGumball.1283:

Alot of the things that we see in-game today were player-suggested, taking the game forward wether to the better or the worse.

Yepp .. especially the mentioned Megaserver and the “GW1 is sooo much better” Style of obtaining traits.

Also the ambrite weapons now .. also direct result of “GW1 is sooo much better” posts.

Dusty Moon.4382:

…snip
AHH- first and foremost. Companies make games to MAKE MONEY. If they can’t make money at making games, games will die. “The Suits” are there to make sure that happens.

And this I understand totally.

And IF I did primarily PvP I would be happy due to the inclusion of the tracks as it shows they are trying to improve that aspect of the game

Or IF I did primarily PvE I would be happy because even though there are still some major bugs that need squashing and some bad decisions (non-xp mobs??) it also shows they are trying to improve that aspect of the game.

BUT I primarily spend my time in WvW and even though they tried to add EoTM as a solution to queues all it did was make Queensdale train part deux. The last tournament was a badly though up joke in that fixing and spying was the theme of the tournament. The entire WvW forum is so devoid of dev presence (is there even a WvW dev anymore?) at this point even posting in there seems a futile experiment in narcissism. Also we were told that a new CDI was in the works for when the last tournament ended; another letdown.

So even though I have supported ANet in the past with money, unless something is done to answer real concerns of the WvW community at this point I will put my wallet away to vote my disapproval.

Tommyknocker.6089:

Dusty Moon.4382:

…snip
AHH- first and foremost. Companies make games to MAKE MONEY. If they can’t make money at making games, games will die. “The Suits” are there to make sure that happens.

And this I understand totally.

And IF I did primarily PvP I would be happy due to the inclusion of the tracks as it shows they are trying to improve that aspect of the game

Or IF I did primarily PvE I would be happy because even though there are still some major bugs that need squashing and some bad decisions (non-xp mobs??) it also shows they are trying to improve that aspect of the game.

BUT I primarily spend my time in WvW and even though they tried to add EoTM as a solution to queues all it did was make Queensdale train part deux. The last tournament was a badly though up joke in that fixing and spying was the theme of the tournament. The entire WvW forum is so devoid of dev presence (is there even a WvW dev anymore?) at this point even posting in there seems a futile experiment in narcissism. Also we were told that a new CDI was in the works for when the last tournament ended; another letdown.

So even though I have supported ANet in the past with money, unless something is done to answer real concerns of the WvW community at this point I will put my wallet away to vote my disapproval.

Thank you for your post. I completely share your thought.Also was a suprise i’m not alone here.

Vayne.8563:

The largest threads still running aren’t necessarily what “the players” are interested in. It’s what the players have come to the forums to complain about are interested in. So I go to reddit and I see completely different threads. Lots of people posting different opinions. Tell me, why are the threads so different on reddit?

Oh, I know. They’re peer moderated. People downvote stuff they don’t like (even if they shouldn’t) and it vanishes. That doesn’t happen here. Two, three, five guys here can keep a thread going forever. But if you count individual names in those threads, for and against, you’ll find that a long held thread doesn’t mean community agreement. It doesn’t mean everyone is saying the same thing, or that it agrees with anything else.

Hell 2 people arguing can keep a thread going for months and months. I’ve seen it happen.

But in a place like reddit, which is actually run by the community a lot of this stuff doesn’t get the same fraction. I wonder why?

Reddit is honestly worse than here. Most of the people that visit the gw2 reddit are pro-GW2/ArenaNet and downvote anything to the contrary even if it’s well stated and logical. It’s great if you don’t want to see people complaining about things, but does not give any sort of accurate picture of what the overall community wants/thinks. So while a handful of people can keep a topic bumped up here, a large number of people can keep a topic virtually unseen on reddit. Now if you see a GW2 post on r/gaming it’s a vastly different experience than r/gw2 as there are those that don’t like Gw2 as well as those that like it.

Distaste.4801:

Vayne.8563:

The largest threads still running aren’t necessarily what “the players” are interested in. It’s what the players have come to the forums to complain about are interested in. So I go to reddit and I see completely different threads. Lots of people posting different opinions. Tell me, why are the threads so different on reddit?

Oh, I know. They’re peer moderated. People downvote stuff they don’t like (even if they shouldn’t) and it vanishes. That doesn’t happen here. Two, three, five guys here can keep a thread going forever. But if you count individual names in those threads, for and against, you’ll find that a long held thread doesn’t mean community agreement. It doesn’t mean everyone is saying the same thing, or that it agrees with anything else.

Hell 2 people arguing can keep a thread going for months and months. I’ve seen it happen.

But in a place like reddit, which is actually run by the community a lot of this stuff doesn’t get the same fraction. I wonder why?

Reddit is honestly worse than here. Most of the people that visit the gw2 reddit are pro-GW2/ArenaNet and downvote anything to the contrary even if it’s well stated and logical. It’s great if you don’t want to see people complaining about things, but does not give any sort of accurate picture of what the overall community wants/thinks. So while a handful of people can keep a topic bumped up here, a large number of people can keep a topic virtually unseen on reddit. Now if you see a GW2 post on r/gaming it’s a vastly different experience than r/gw2 as there are those that don’t like Gw2 as well as those that like it.

But if it is a numbers game, surely more people would feel one way and the positive posts would be downvoted, not the negative ones. That’s logical.

If more people agreed, it wouldn’t be downvoted, which is my point. Saying that there’s this number of threads isn’t as relevant as how many people are posting in those threads and how many agree.

If you got a big long thread and 40 people are really really complaining about something, what percentage is 40 people of the entire userbase. If a lot of people then disagree with that and post in that thread, it could go on forever. But here’s another thought.

I know a whole lot of people that no longer come to these forums or post here because they love the game and they find these forums a complete downer. They’re not here to provide their point of view, because it’s more fun for them to stay away from this kind of negativity. A lot of the people who enjoy the game most in my guild wouldn’t log into the forums on a bet.

Reddit is unreliable about feedback.
It’s a lair for people that will just defend a game no matter what.
The gw2 forum is the official and logical place that most of gw2 players from all the world will visit when they need to express their opinions.
Lot of people don’t even know what reddit is, in my country (Italy) people hardly have heard of it.

Erick Alastor.3917:

Reddit is unreliable about feedback.
It’s a lair for people that will just defend a game no matter what.
The gw2 forum is the official and logical place that most of gw2 players from all the world will visit when they need to express their opinions.
Lot of people don’t even know what reddit is, in my country (Italy) people hardly have heard of it.

Then neither is this forum as many of the posters, on this forum, admit they don’t play GW2 any more. Why is their opinion any better than the folks posting in Reddit?

Erick Alastor.3917:

Reddit is unreliable about feedback.
It’s a lair for people that will just defend a game no matter what.
The gw2 forum is the official and logical place that most of gw2 players from all the world will visit when they need to express their opinions.
Lot of people don’t even know what reddit is, in my country (Italy) people hardly have heard of it.

The official forum has lost most of the supporters. I left for months. Not because I don’t like the game. But because these forums are positively painful sometimes. A lot of people who support the game wouldn’t come here. Does that make this a balanced place to find out about the game?

You claim reddit has all the people who like the game. I submit is the same thing in reverse.

Don’t forget that they propably also have to to bug checks…

Sales can, in part, show if you’re doing good.
Feedback, negative or constructive shows what you can improve.
Praising the game to praise the game it serves just as PR fluff that can help to sell the game, but not to improve it.

Erick Alastor.3917:

Sales can, in part, show if you’re doing good.
Feedback, negative or constructive shows what you can improve.
Praising the game to praise the game it serves just as PR fluff that can help to sell the game, but not to improve it.

Have you ever seen me create a thread to praise the game? I’ve created a couple to call attention to problems I’ve seen, and I’ve agreed with some other people’s problems. But the amount of hyperbole, trolling and one liners just trying to put down the game makes it hard for anyone who likes the game to stay here.

So what’s left are only the people who don’t like the game.

Take the people who want mounts in the game. They really think that would make the game great. But there’s an even bigger group on the forums who don’t want to see mount at all. That’s all over these forums. It’s not really constructive conversation. Certainly not after the dozenth thread on the subject.

You make it sound like no one on reddit ever complains about anything or offers constructive criticism. It’s not true.

It’s the kind of stuff that’s not constructive that gets downvoted there.

OP, most people opinions are worthless.

ever heard of the rule 90% is crap? At the end of the day, most people opinion are tied to their narrow unoriginal experiences. Believe me, most people do not have original interesting ideas. Anet probably thought of most of them

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law

I mostly comment when things are broken or boring ( Mai Trin ).

It seems like Anet are trying to make encounters interesting.

Indeed we can find many discussions on reddit about how to fix the ~35 mesmer bugs.
Nope. On reddit people prefer to post a guide to show how to try to play it even with all its bugs. Yes it can be helpful, but it’s not constructive.
This is burying your head in the sand.
People who post about mounts are not trolls, are just people asking for something they like, trolls are the people who reply to those threads inviting the OP to change game, writing just “oh this thread again” or “NO” et similia, without even trying to find (as I’ve already wrote in another post) a middle ground. (edit for kitten o_O)

With regard to the OP’s topic, I do not believe that ANet owes any explanation or response to things posted on these forums. A certain amount of communication may be in their best interests, but I can understand why they don’t. If someone feels like they need a response to maintain interest in the game, then they should extrapolate ANet’s direction by what they do.

For instance, some changes were made to which content must be completed to gain a trait. Lack of further changes tells me that that’s all they’ll be doing about traits for now. Megaserver is here to stay, like it or not. Lack of comment on this issue tells me this. It may be that ANet will adjust the algorithms that send players to the zone best suited to their enjoyment, but the system will not be reverted.

Erick Alastor.3917:

Indeed we can find many discussions on reddit about how to fix the ~35 mesmer bugs.
Nope. On reddit people prefer to post a guide to show how to try to play it even with all its bugs. Yes it can be helpful, but it’s not constructive.
This is burying your head in the sand.
People who post about mounts are not trolls, are just people asking for something they like, trolls are the people who reply to those threads inviting the OP to change game, writing just “oh this thread again” or “NO” et similia, without even trying to find (as I’ve already wrote in another post) a middle ground. (edit for kitten o_O)

Reddit has probably done as much to test this game as any other demographic of people. Many of the people who post here also post on reddit.

The difference is how the posts are made.

Take a good, long, honest look at these forums. Go through every post, pro and con. If you can’t see that the bias here is equal and opposite to the bias on most fan sites, there’s not much to talk about it. But it’s still bias.

You have people who haven’t played the game for a year still posting and making judgements. You’ve got people saying that the new content is only 2 hours worth because they only do bits of it. You’ve got people saying that this game isn’t Guild Wars 1, which no one even denied. But it’s never going to be Guild Wars 1. Ever.

Not better, not worse. Different. It’s intentionally different.

If you really think more than 50% of the stuff on these forums is constructive criticism…I’d have to disagree with that.

Check the WvW section. I don’t remember the last time any dev posted there.

Nick.6972:

Check the WvW section. I don’t remember the last time any dev posted there.

You see these forums as a way for 2 way communication between devs and fans. But in reality these forums were set up for fans to communicate with each other. When devs come on, they do so on their own private time. They’re not paid to talk to you. They’re paid to make a game.

Anything any dev said on the WvW forums would involve some kind of lengthy exchange. It’s not their job. Just because some people think devs should be required to respond to them doesn’t make it so.

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Check the WvW section. I don’t remember the last time any dev posted there.

You see these forums as a way for 2 way communication between devs and fans. But in reality these forums were set up for fans to communicate with each other. When devs come on, they do so on their own private time. They’re not paid to talk to you. They’re paid to make a game.

Anything any dev said on the WvW forums would involve some kind of length exchange. It’s not their job. Just because some people think devs should be required to respond to them doesn’t make it so.

So true Vayne. Your post is spot on.

Erick Alastor.3917:

Sales can, in part, show if you’re doing good.
Feedback, negative or constructive shows what you can improve.
Praising the game to praise the game it serves just as PR fluff that can help to sell the game, but not to improve it.

You obviously have no understanding of development, sales, marketing & customer service.

Positive feedback tells the maker of anything where they are doing things right and what the customer likes about what they are doing. It is hardly PR fluff.

By giving the customer more of what they do like and taking future offerings in those directions, they almost assure themselves of not only increased sales but also customer satisfaction.

Constructive feedback is also welcome. Even negative feedback is helpful when presented in a mature and non-hateful manner.

Most of the so called negative feedback here in the forums are neither constructive or mature. Mostly it is just aggressive, demanding and mean spirited. Those types of negative comments are rarely responded to with positive intent.

What demoralizes me is the monotone atmosphere what goes on since I started playing this game in december 2013 and as I saw on the forums I am not the only one and there’s much older players than me who see this too.

As a new player is nice and wonderful but very fast can turn into boringnes…after reaching lvl 80 and every day the same things you do:Dungeons,World Bosses,Chat with guild.The last new thing what was introduced if I am correct was some new healing abilities like Skelk poison to thief.I finished the LS very fast.

and there’s many topics some with over 10 pages without any reaction from devs in Classes section many good balance feedbacks and suggestions too…not implemented…threads vanish from minute to another…

Constructive feedback and criticism. Sounds nice. Maybe people gave up.
Why bother writing a long thought ought article with legit concerns and suggestions when its guaranteed to fall on deaf ear?
Arena net has shown that they’ll do what they want.

Nick.6972:

Constructive feedback and criticism. Sounds nice. Maybe people gave up.
Why bother writing a long thought ought article with legit concerns and suggestions when its guaranteed to fall on deaf ear?
Arena net has shown that they’ll do what they want.

Do you mean Anet has made no changes to this game based on fan request? Is this what you’re trying to say here?

Nick.6972:

Constructive feedback and criticism. Sounds nice. Maybe people gave up.
Why bother writing a long thought ought article with legit concerns and suggestions when its guaranteed to fall on deaf ear?
Arena net has shown that they’ll do what they want.

Really? How do you figure that? I figure if you are making that sort of statement you must have some sort of insider information. Share with the rest of us.

Nick.6972:

Constructive feedback and criticism. Sounds nice. Maybe people gave up.
Why bother writing a long thought ought article with legit concerns and suggestions when its guaranteed to fall on deaf ear?
Arena net has shown that they’ll do what they want.

On the internet, people would rather harangue and downplay things than actually give constructive criticism. It is due to the fact that the internet is anonymous and people feel secure in saying EXACTLY what they think without any recriminations. I wonder if people would be so negative if would get the same type of feedback back that they gave?

A.Net is allowed to do what they want. They wrote the game, they own it lock, stock and barrel. You are just licensing the use of it, like you would MS Word or any such software. The fact they actually have an official forum that people can give and exchange ideas basically negates your idea that they do what they want. If they really did what they wanted, how long do you think these negative Forums would last?

Negative criticisms should be ignored and thrown out. They have no place in any civil society.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Negative criticisms should be ignored and thrown out. They have no place in any civil society.

Ok .

See the problem here is that some people come here to say the game is dying (which is not provable, probably not true and definitely not constructive). There are people who come here for no other reason than to get a rise out of other people. And there are people who come here to criticize the game, even though they like it.

There are people who have criticized down leveling. But more people on those threads liked downleveling. Should Anet listen to them and take it out.

What people are really saying when they say Anet doesn’t listen to their players, is that Anet is not listening to me and the players who think like me. But if Anet removed downleveling based on some posts, then they’d not be listening to players who said to keep it.

Is downleveling somehow objectively a good or bad thing? Then who should Anet listen to?

Saying Anet isn’t listening is demonstrably wrong. Saying Anet doesn’t do everything we tell them too is absolutely true. Which is as it should be.

GuzziHero.2467:

We’ve given feedback. When will the team listen to us and/or answer our concerns?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Game-Updates-Guild-World-Events-Megaservers-WvW/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Game-Updates-Traits/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feedback-Questions-MegaServer/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Megaservers-and-RP/first

Now, I don’t expect developers to rush in and answer every little nit-picky complaint and issue, but these threads contain thousands of posts including everything from sarcastic comments, to real solutions to many of the issues raised by the April patch.

For me, the total lack of recognition shown regarding these problems is just killing my enthusiasm for the game. I am sure there are many others like me.

Can we please have at least one post saying “We have read and are looking into the issues raised”? I don’t know how much longer I can hold on to GW2 in the hopes of an improvement.

I think you are being unreasonable. Thousands of players with different opinions. Yet you speak like everyone wants the same things. That’s not how it is.

Secondly, ArenaNet discloses information until it’s ready to be revealed to reduce the chance of a dissappointed player base who claim they have been “lied too”.

In game development, things change. Sometimes things that look great on paper ends up getting scrapped. Entire gameplay systems or features or content gets removed. Sometimes it’s better not to tell players about these things as they will become disappointed.

Also I have played MMOs, where the developers auto-response was always “we’re looking into it”, “we want to do that” and then 3-4 years later still nothing.

What I think you need to look at, is what they actually have produced. Content, fixes and additions to the game. I personally believe they listen more to the majority of players than any other MMO developer I have been with.

It is wrong to assume that they don’t listen because they don’t confirm every day. If you don’t enjoy the game, take a break until you are excited about playing it today, not having illussions about the grand fixes you want them to make tomorrow.

The game is as good as it is. Why would you expect it to be better? They clearly did the best they could, they are clearly trying to do better, and they are clearly not phoning it in, so why are your enthusiasm diminished?

Isn’t that like being mad over when it rains? No it shouldn’t rain, but that’s life. No need to be upset. Just enjoy it. It makes me sad when I see MMO players who can’t enjoy the game at this moment because it has flaws. There will always be flaws. It will never be perfect or good enough. The trick is to enjoy it right now, and just be grateful for that. Then you will appreciate the other improvements later so much more.

This pretty much relates to everything. And I feel preachy because I myself too, am bad at living in the moment. So I need to learn from this as well. Stay Calm and Believe in Anet OP!

Nick.6972:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Negative criticisms should be ignored and thrown out. They have no place in any civil society.

Ok .

Seriously, is that all you can say?

I will give an example of how negative criticism is used on this forum. In one of the many Mount threads, one forum member, who is pro-mount, said people who are against mounts have not given any viable reasons against mounts. I, being anti-mount, turned around and actually posted a list of the reasons against mounts. Then he basically came back and said, those are not viable reasons. That is not how a civil society debates anything. Just because I disagree with your or anyone else’s opinion does not make it any less valid. He did not want a debate, he just felt his opinion is the only right now and that is not a fact, other than in his own mind.

Vayne did say it best in his post.

Sad Swordfish.9743:

I think you are being unreasonable. Thousands of players with different opinions. Yet you speak like everyone wants the same things. That’s not how it is.

Secondly, ArenaNet discloses information until it’s ready to be revealed to reduce the chance of a dissappointed player base who claim they have been “lied too”.

In game development, things change. Sometimes things that look great on paper ends up getting scrapped. Entire gameplay systems or features or content gets removed. Sometimes it’s better not to tell players about these things as they will become disappointed.

Many players visit the forums occasionally, very few are here every day or read a significant number of threads. There are thousands of posts every day on various subjects, a dev could spend his entire workday just reading rants and troll posts and come to the conclusion that the players are gathering torches and pitchforks.

As an example of why it’s a bad idea to release information too early, look at the precursor crafting/scavenger hunt issue. Over a year and a half ago, someone from Anet made an offhand comment about looking into the possibility of an alternate method of obtaining a precursor. Such a process would not be short or simple, but it would offer a more stable indicator of progress than the RNG method (throw greatswords into the forge and hope for Dusk) or trying to hit a moving target (gathering enough gold to reach TP price). He speculated that they could create some sort of scavenger hunt or something. There was no more mention of it for a while, then an offhand comment that they were looking into it.

A few months later, it was one item among many talked about in a blog post about upcoming plans for the game. They hoped to introduce it in 2013, but the post ended with a statement to the effect that these plans are subject to change and may not all appear in the next few months. Several months later it was mentioned that some of the things, including the precursor system, were delayed until next year.

When there was a huge update to the game in April, it included a mention that because of some fundamental changes to the game the precursor system was again delayed and was not included as part of the update.

This indicates that Anet is aware of the issue and continues to work on it. They are not ignoring it nor are they refusing to give any updates as to the status of their plans. But many players have not seen all of these statements, and from the time it was first casually mentioned there have been numerous complaints and questions about it.

Imagine if devs posted about every idea, every plan that was in its early stages but wouldn’t be in the game for a year or more, if at all. Imagine the outrage when a player’s preferred system is going to be replaced with something else months from now, or when a seemingly good idea is abandoned because of some issue or other. The negativity expressed in these forums would increase tenfold as players react to incomplete information and make assumptions based on ideas that are barely beyond the brainstorming phase but the players want them implemented/thrown out immediately.

There’s a very good reason why players are not included in all stages of planning/design/testing the game.

Anet hide everything and are not open with us at all.
This is possibly, for me, the worst thing about this game. We should not be kept in the dark as much as we are. We should know what they are and aren’t working on FOR DEFINITE. And we should know if they ever intend to fix bugs that have been around for a very long time.

They do not need to respond to everything on the forums, but we shouldn’t need to ask questions about somethings. They need to address major issues and questions raised on a frequent basis, but they do not do this.

sazberryftw.3809:

Anet hide everything and are not open with us at all.
This is possibly, for me, the worst thing about this game. We should not be kept in the dark as much as we are. We should know what they are and aren’t working on FOR DEFINITE. And we should know if they ever intend to fix bugs that have been around for a very long time.

They do not need to respond to everything on the forums, but we shouldn’t need to ask questions about somethings. They need to address major issues and questions raised on a frequent basis, but they do not do this.

Should they? The game being out for 2 years and after reading all the negative pile on threads out there (against GW2 and A.Net), on this and other forums, I don’t blame them at all for playing it close to the vest. They do tell us what is going on but only 2 weeks beforehand. That prevents the knee-jerk reactions from snowballing.

I blame the ‘entitled’ attitude of players. I am ‘entitled’ to a response because I am so important to the survival of the game. The developers have better things to do with their time than stroking the egos of forum posters. This is the current attitude in this day and age of the internet.

sazberryftw.3809:

Anet hide everything and are not open with us at all.
This is possibly, for me, the worst thing about this game. We should not be kept in the dark as much as we are. We should know what they are and aren’t working on FOR DEFINITE. And we should know if they ever intend to fix bugs that have been around for a very long time.

They do not need to respond to everything on the forums, but we shouldn’t need to ask questions about somethings. They need to address major issues and questions raised on a frequent basis, but they do not do this.

This is a good example of what I just posted about. This attitude is the biggest reason why they remain silent until their plans are fully developed.

BTW, in order to fix a bug it has to be found, examined and tested. It’s not a matter of “intending” to fix a bug, it either has not been fixed or it has. If it has been fixed, it will be in the next update. Announcing “we still haven’t found the bug but we’re looking” just invites trolls and complaints.

tolunart.2095:

sazberryftw.3809:

Anet hide everything and are not open with us at all.
This is possibly, for me, the worst thing about this game. We should not be kept in the dark as much as we are. We should know what they are and aren’t working on FOR DEFINITE. And we should know if they ever intend to fix bugs that have been around for a very long time.

They do not need to respond to everything on the forums, but we shouldn’t need to ask questions about somethings. They need to address major issues and questions raised on a frequent basis, but they do not do this.

This is a good example of what I just posted about. This attitude is the biggest reason why they remain silent until their plans are fully developed.

Tolunart thumbs up I think the old adage, ‘You get more bees with honey than with vinegar’ comes to mind. Why should A.Net even respond to such negative declarative statements? I know I wouldn’t because you are darned if you do and darned if you don’t.

tolunart.2095:

This is a good example of what I just posted about. This attitude is the biggest reason why they remain silent until their plans are fully developed.

I don’t think there’s much wrong about my attitude on this matter. I do honestly believe they should tell us more. Not everything but more. I would simply like more updates on what’s going on behind the scenes, I think players deserve that. I feel like the wall between the players and Anet is very high and very thick. I think the wall between players and developers should be thinner, and more open.

I am not talking about them responding to every nit-picking opinion, I’m asking to have open updates on what they’re working on. I’d like to hear more updates on precursor crafting, on getting season 1 into the journal. I’d like to know if they’re working on fixing almost 2 year old dungeon bugs. They do not need to promise us anything, I just feel they should update us regularly on their current projects.

Not everything needs to be super secret right up until a feature pack is released, that is all. They are silent about so many matters, matters that are INCREDIBLY important to their player base.

sazberryftw.3809:

tolunart.2095:

This is a good example of what I just posted about. This attitude is the biggest reason why they remain silent until their plans are fully developed.

I don’t think there’s much wrong about my attitude on this matter. I do honestly believe they should tell us more. Not everything but more. I would simply like more updates on what’s going on behind the scenes, I think players deserve that. I feel like the wall between the players and Anet is very high and very thick. I think the wall between players and developers should be thinner, and more open.

I am not talking about them responding to every nit-picking opinion, I’m asking to have open updates on what they’re working on. I’d like to hear more updates on precursor crafting, on getting season 1 into the journal. I’d like to know if they’re working on fixing almost 2 year old dungeon bugs. They do not need to promise us anything, I just feel they should update us regularly on their current projects.

Not everything needs to be super secret right up until a feature pack is released, that is all. They are silent about so many matters, matters that are INCREDIBLY important to their player base.

GW1 still has the same armor bugs that were reported in the first week it was out. How do you expect them to fix everything? It is impossible.

Your type of attitude is the reason that they do not say anything any more. Once bitten, twice shy as the old adage goes. They were giving information freely in the beginning. Then there were all the negative pile-on threads saying how stupid they are and even calling specific developers that by name (ON MANY FORUMS JUST NOT THIS ONE). if this happened to you, wouldn’t you not say anything until it is important?

They have put in many bug fixes, etc that are not in the main release notes. They don’t HAVE to tell us everything or anything for that matter. Courtesy begets courtesy.

You say ‘MATTERS that are important to the player base’ but you list none. It would be helpful if you listed things so I can see if they are the same things I am interested in also. You may find out that what you are interested in, no else cares a hoot about or everyone is. Blanket statements help no one.

Dusty Moon.4382:

GW1 still has the same armor bugs that were reported in the first week it was out. How do you expect them to fix everything? It is impossible.

You say ‘MATTERS that are important to the player base’ but you list none. It would be helpful if you listed things so I can see if they are the same things I am interested in also. You may find out that what you are interested in, no else cares a hoot about or everyone is. Blanket statements help no one.

There are bugs in dungeons that should have been visited the day they were found. For example, Detha bug in AC, which can happen to any unexpecting newbie who doesn’t know it exists, and they can’t continue their run. The crystal bug in CoE can cause a fairly experienced and skill player to down and wipe, simply because they cannot evade and block Alpha’s attacks when they need to as they are stuck when they should be free. The party may not have enough time to get them up before the next deadly ice attack, and bam, 1 player down. The fact I face this every day, almost every run to me is an issue that should have been addressed. And I’d like to hear if they are even working on this. Hell, I’d like to know if ANYONE is working on dungeons. We just deserve some more inside knowledge!

Fractal rewards. I am not asking this to be an immediate fix, but they make no effort to discuss this with their players, and it’s a valid complaint. It’s not all rage, a lot of players are offering constructive criticism and ideas, none of which are talked about with devs/community managers.

I’d like news on putting season 1 into the journal. I think we should know exactly how long they reckon this is going to take because it’s REALLY important for players who missed season 1. I appreciate how much of a challenge this is, and that it is going to take time, which is why I think it’s important to get updated on it so we know they are working on it. There is nothing wrong with them taking the time they need to do this, I just want to hear information on their progress.

We need to be enlightened on precursor crafting, or any new form of acquiring them (whatever their ideas may be). This will be a huge change to the game, and a lot of us are sitting around thinking, is this even happening? We don’t know, they mentioned it and then they haven’t told us anything.

As someone studying games design and someone who has had experience with a few game developers, I believe a more open relationship between developers and players is vital. Making promises when they’re not 100% is bad, but discussing things is good.

Vayne.8563:

The largest threads still running aren’t necessarily what “the players” are interested in. It’s what the players have come to the forums to complain about are interested in. So I go to reddit and I see completely different threads. Lots of people posting different opinions. Tell me, why are the threads so different on reddit?

Oh, I know. They’re peer moderated. People downvote stuff they don’t like (even if they shouldn’t) and it vanishes. That doesn’t happen here. Two, three, five guys here can keep a thread going forever. But if you count individual names in those threads, for and against, you’ll find that a long held thread doesn’t mean community agreement. It doesn’t mean everyone is saying the same thing, or that it agrees with anything else.

Hell 2 people arguing can keep a thread going for months and months. I’ve seen it happen.

But in a place like reddit, which is actually run by the community a lot of this stuff doesn’t get the same fraction. I wonder why?

Yep reddit completely unbisaed

https://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=ssl#q=reddit+moderator+bias

sazberryftw.3809:

I am not talking about them responding to every nit-picking opinion, I’m asking to have open updates on what they’re working on. I’d like to hear more updates on precursor crafting, on getting season 1 into the journal. I’d like to know if they’re working on fixing almost 2 year old dungeon bugs. They do not need to promise us anything, I just feel they should update us regularly on their current projects.

Not everything needs to be super secret right up until a feature pack is released, that is all. They are silent about so many matters, matters that are INCREDIBLY important to their player base.

There have been updates on precursor crafting, people still call it a scavenger hunt and claim that nothing has been said in over a year. What do you expect, the devs are going to come to your house and sit in your living room and explain to you personally what is going on? Even when there are updates, people claim they don’t give updates.

Every game has bugs. Every one.

Some only happen under specific circumstances that cannot be easily duplicated. Some are mere annoyances that end up at the bottom of a long list of priorities. They will not tell you what bugs are being looked at, nor will they tell you that a bug is fixed until the fix is applied to the game.

What you are really demanding is that they admit that tracking down such-and-such bug is not important enough to Anet and nothing is ever going to be done. As someone said, there have been bugs that persisted for years, whether they couldn’t find them or it wasn’t worth the man-hours necessary to fix is irrelevant. If it hasn’t been fixed in two years, it probably won’t be fixed because you demand it to be fixed. If they completely revisit and rework the dungeons then most of those bugs will be fixed, or the bugged content will be removed and the bug won’t matter any more.

But they are not going to discuss it with you, no matter what you demand.

Life happens where “what I want to accomplish” meets “what I am capable of accomplishing.” As I get older, the two grow closer together and I learn more about my limits. I think that most of the people posting here are younger than I am, and still believe that people are capable of doing much more than they really are.