Guild Wars 2

Ehh again this topic…

Cap SHOULD stay

In the first place:

- Achievement points measure your total progress in the game in all aspects (just to be clear, not skill or whatsoever) – dailies don’t feel like progress to me in any sence in general dailies should “complete themselves” during normal gameplay

- Achievement points measure progress so they ARE COMPETITIVE, cap removed alot of stress from it

- APs are not some reward track LOL, beside those chests aren’t interesting. AP Skins, especially weapons are one of the worst.

- Even with daily cap it’s impossible to overtake determinated player cause of retired achievements, however it’s possible to reduce that gap significantly. Without cap gap will stay same of even could increase.

- Anet fails at balancing points given per achievement, points per effort in case of dailies aren’t even funny – perma achievements should give more AP and dailies shouldn’t give any

- From competitive point of view dalies are nothing more than achievements with 24h retirement time – means if not done lost forever (in case without CAP)

If you look at competitive aspect from state before cap it was something like this:
You’re tryharding everyday, do dalies, progress wvw achi etc and one day something happens and you can’t log in. Cause you failed to do daily, you didn’t get points other ppl managed to get. Gap between you and them will get bigger, unless something similar will happen them.
Yesterday’s daily is kind of “retired achievement” that many ppl cry about. This was main reason that ppl with alot of AP were really happy about cap, me included. Now annoying problem are goldsink collections, especially BLTC weapons.

If you login only do to dailies while complaining about AP cap i think there is something wrong with your logic or maybe you’re playing wrong game.

I’m sick of “I exist so I want reward” ppl

Sendi.3426:

beside those chests aren’t interesting. AP Skins, especially weapons are one of the worst.

That’s highly subjective. Apparently, a lot of people disagree with you on this, at least where armor and backpack skins are concerned.

maddoctor.2738:

Infinite achievements create a never ending cycle just to cater to a group of people who want to see some numbers go up daily.

And all the cap does is cater to people who behave obsessively about AP, and who don’t want to police their own behavior.

Meanwhile, removing incentives reduces play time. The profit plan for an MMO involves the generation of repetitive cycles. Removing such a cycle doesn’t seem like a good thing.

maddoctor.2738:

Harper.4173:

You don’t seem to get it. This is an MMO. They have to make rewards to keep people playing.

Yes obviously. They add new rewards in new content that’s how it has always been. That has nothing to do with the achievement rewards though. There is absolutely no reason to add new rewards on the achievement track every so often, they add other things for players to go for. Or you are saying the only reason you play an MMORPG is for the amount of Achievement Points you have, then it’s just sad.

Harper.4173:

The argument that “if they give you this reward they’ll have to make another” is nonsensical. Making rewards is what they do.
In a sense they “sell” us these rewards and we buy them with money and time.

Yes for currencies that is true, that’s why most currencies have ways of spending them to get simple things like bags of masterwork items to salvage for some extra loot, or exotic items to salvage for ectos etc

But Achievement Points are NOT a currency, you can’t spend them and you can’t lose them in any way.

Every so often? When was the last time rewards were added to the AP chests?
They add other stuff too – but they can add this stuff too. More stuff is always better.

Why is it true for currencies and not AP?
I am not spending AP -but I am spending time to gain AP. Ultimately it’s still SOMETHING for something else.

maddoctor.2738:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

The point of this thread is asking to remove the cap. Right now, because of the cap, no one can reach the end-goal content from the achievement panel. No one. That’s his and Harper’s point.

Here is where you are wrong, there is no end-goal content to reach because there is no end to how many AP you can get in the future. And there is no drain for them either, you don’t spend them as they are not a currency and you don’t lose any if you stop playing.

When someone gets to 42k AP chances are we will already have 45k and 48k rewards available to preview in the wardrobe. It’s a never ending cycle and at the current rate they won’t need to add 45k and 48k rewards any time soon and focus on more important rewards that everyone can get.

Removing the cap will both require the devs to create new rewards for the APs sooner, because hey if they remove the daily cap why not all other caps? Dungeons? Fractals? Why stop at the daily cap? Let’s remove all caps so you get 3k AP in 6 months and ask the devs to add more rewards on the achievement panel just because.

You also need to realize that the majority of the APs in the game come from that cap. There are just ~19k permanent Achievement Points in the game available and 25k from the daily cap. The permanent points are already devalued enough, as many pointed out already, and removing the cap will devalue them even further.

Here’s what you’re not getting – their JOB is to create content. The currency I spend to get that content is TIME. It’s also real life money on the TP.

Your argument is amusing – don’t let the player get the reward so Anet doesn’t have to make another one. Well then that reward is non-existent to players.

A reward serves the purpose of being a carrot on a stick – getting you to play (and maybe even pay for a gem store thing or two in the process) in order to achieve it. It’s natural that once you get it you’ll want another carrot. And it’s natural that the devs GIVE you another carrot to chase.

If the reward is clearly unobtainable then it won’t make anyone chase it. If I know I can’t get that skin how can it serve its purpose to motivate me to work towards it?

I have already explained that my argument is to remove the DAILY achievement TOTAL cap because it’s already SOFTCAPPED by being a daily. You can do it once per day.

That way it means that Anet wins by motivating you to log in once a day with said APs.
Removing all caps on all repeatable achievement things might not be a goal for them because they wouldn’t profit from it nearly as much. And by profit I mean get people to log in consistently so that they eventually see something on the gem store they’ll be willing to spend money on.

i think the cap is good.

maddoctor.2738:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I thought the cap was 15,000. Where can I acquire these other 10,000 Daily APs?

What is the point of having rewards that are unreachable? How difficult would it be to design some new weapons skins? Or new Glider skins? Or even new Backpack skins? No one stated it must be armor. Those items seem to appear quite often in the Gem Store, or as other Achievement rewards.

Yes it’s 15k my bad. Which means there is 4k more permanent AP than the daily.
With the achievement point reward structure there will always be rewards that are unreachable, that’s the nature of the achievement rewards.

And I already gave a solution to that. Make the items at higher un-viewable and un-previewable in the wardrobe, just put a big shinny ? on them. Problems solved

The more i read the more absurd it gets.
This is WRONG. A reward in an MMO can be difficult, hard, or a pain to reach but having unreachable rewards defeats the point of said reward existing in the first place.

It’s absurd.

Would I motivate you to do something if I told you I’d give you 10.000USD BUT you knew you’d never get the money? If you know you’ll never get it – does it still motivate you?

maddoctor.2738:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

So, the majority of APs aren’t provided by the cap. Solution to what? Why would rewards ever be ‘unreachable’? Makes no sense. What purpose is a big shiny ??? And no response about weapon/glider/backpack skins?

I don’t know…the arguments don’t seem to hold much weight.

Not the majority but still too many. The big shinny ??? is to obscure the reward. Otherwise you get people who preview it and want it now.

So you motivate players by NOT telling them what a reward is? How is this even real?

The issue is really ANet, trying to encourage play, turned AP from a gauge into a reward track 10 months after launch (Bazaar of the Four Winds update). That changes the motivation for some. Plus it gave latecomers rewards who could never catch up on the leaderboard.

The question is what was the primary reason that ANet put the cap in place.

There are 3 main reasons:

1. To keep the players who AP hunt from feeling like they had to do every daily out there.

2. Daily achievements aren’t that hard and therefore shouldn’t make up a majority of possible AP.

3. To let new players catch up.

Given that most achievements aren’t that hard, I find it hard to believe that #2 is the primary reason. Given that they do retire AP, #3 is likely not the primary reason either.

So it was likely put in place for #1. Which was a valid reason when it was put in place. But they have since reworked dailies and now #1 is null. You can do 3 of the daily options or all of them and you’ll still get the same amount of AP. And doing 3 of them doesn’t take hours.

So I would have no problem if they removed the cap.

“perma achievements should give more AP and dailies shouldn’t give any.”

pretty much sums up the only logical step, which anet have to take now.

I’m pretty sure there’s a cap on dailies so that people are not pressured into logging in every single day and feel like they are missing out some crucial amount of points in the long run.

Making it black and white where no dailies award AP or where theres no way to balance AP rewards sound pretty insane to me. The daily AP are just there to award some level of casual AP upto a certain point where you need to get to actually go out of your way to achieve something.

Im pretty sure that the daily rewards add a level of casualness to the AP rewards. Not a bad thing but after reaching the cap it’s done. At which point you’ve been doing for so long that its hard to imagine that it can be called casual I suppose.

Endless daily AP would basically cheapen every other achievement. And make people’s AP level a level of how many dailies you did rather than how much you actually achieved.
No daily AP would make the system very task specific and have no casual play source of AP.

Thus you have 15k of daily AP max so that the game has a bit of both.

At least, that’s my explanation.

Here are my thoughts on this matter:

I see the reason why dailies award AP. It incentivizes to log in to progress your account every day. But on the other hand, even with cap in place, it devalues the real achievements in the game.

For a long time, I have been an avid achievement hunter and have done pretty much every permanent achievement that isn’t too grindy or money consuming for my tastes. But, believe or not, I only hit the cap on dailies yesterday. Not that I would have wanted to hit it earlier, but two years ago I had to go through my conscript service so I missed a lot of dailies (and a few LS 1 achievements).

So this lead to that people, who are lazier than me on achievement hunting, still get an edge on me for TWO years, just because the dailies award achievement points. And for all those two years, I still had more permanent achievement points that any of them, but I was behind in totals just because of dailies. Talk about devaluing the work permanent achievements require. But I waited and now am sitting comfortably at 31,3k, over 2k higher than my rival guildmates.

So, I for one, would not mind seeing daily achievement points gone altogether (should not have awarded any in the first place, but I guess having a cap on them is the best we will get) and permanent AP values doubled.

kyrie.8530:

“perma achievements should give more AP and dailies shouldn’t give any.”

pretty much sums up the only logical step, which anet have to take now.

Personally I don’t have a problem with dailies giving out AP. But the AP from dailies should never be a majority, not even a plurality of the available AP points. And that is where ANet messed up with dailies. If you missed S1 then by far most of your available AP are only from dailies, which is not ok in the long run. Regular achievements need to give much more AP than they do, and we need to be getting more achievements per release.

There are MMOs that have been going for more than 10 years. If the game has only been out for 4 years and players have already reached more than half of the achievement awards, it only makes sense to spread out those awards so they will last.

Ele Lady.6103:

So this lead to that people, who are lazier than me on achievement hunting, still get an edge on me for TWO years, just because the dailies award achievement points.

No. They had an edge on you because they have been playing for two years while you did not. And the current situation lets you ignore that point and makes their 2 years advantage completely irrelevant.
It works both ways. While i do understand why you might want to keep the current situation as is, or downplay daily ap’s even more, you should understand that the other group has an equally strong point as well

Yes, i do agree that a lot of the permanent achievements should be worth more. Especially many of the new ones, which are often ridiculously undervalued. I also think, though, that the daily cap should be removed as well.

I see this thread pop up a lot and thought I would throw my two cents in. As a long time player who hit the cap long ago. Here are my thoughts on it and maybe a change that would help.

1: My main gripe with the cap is that its isn’t apparent. I hit it without knowing I did. It still says when I do my daily that I get 10ap. So maybe change that so people are less confused when they stop getting it. I see that in the forums from time to time. “Why didn’t I get my AP today?” threads .

2: Offer an alternative to the 10ap. Now this is where everyone will argue. I agree another currency is not really needed. We have tons and I am still waiting on a key ring for all my random keys (am sure am not the only one who has forgotten which toon I left my machetes on when I want to do DS). But how about and Achievement for Daily’s? Don’t think it would be hard to add another Achievement in say the General Tab called say “Zealous Achiever”. Give it 10 tiers and make it repeatable endlessly. Every 10 dailies you get 10ap if you have opened it up by maxing out at 15k. It still lets people feel like they are getting somewhere and I think addresses all the other issues I have seen. It slows it down so they have time to make stuff. Or to allow others to catch up depending on your take.

I think if when you hit the cap it gave you a hey you have opened this new achievement notice. It would both make it clear that you play entirely to much and should get some sun. And that your dailies are going to move differently from now on.

Anyway just a thought… let the rage ensue

I just hit mine today without realizing it too. Out of all the things that Anet has done, that I’ve disliked, this is the ONE thing that has made me upset enough to not play.

My favorite thing about the game, is the AP/Collection stuff. I like to try to do as many as I can and I use them as goals for myself. That 10 AP may not seem like much, but it adds up fast. It’s a disappointing loss, for no legitimate reason.