Guild Wars 2

Whats the definition of a 3rd party program?

mauried.5608:

Whats the definition of a 3rd party program?

A program that is not provided by anet themselves. E.g Autohotkey, GW personal assistant , overwolf etc. Things like that.

They aren’t against 3rd party tools in general just ones that allow you do do things in game that you shouldn’t be able to, e.g a key that does multiple things, teleporting around a map.

So, you are AFK farming, which any reasonable person would assume is suspect, you chose to ignore a lot of input which says it isn’t allowable, and you made a mistake.

And now you feel an Anet employee should be fired over the mistake you made?

I think you need to take a huge step back.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

So, you are AFK farming, which any reasonable person would assume is suspect, you chose to ignore a lot of input which says it isn’t allowable, and you made a mistake.

And now you feel an Anet employee should be fired over the mistake you made?

I think you need to take a huge step back.

show me input that says its not allowed. I can show you GM posts that say its permitted and ‘as designed’.

you need to take a step back. AFK farming in PVE that is NOT on an event map (such as SW) has been tolerated since the start of the game. However what is not permitted/tolerated is PVP, WvW, and some Event AFK farming. Also Botting (what 3rd party is all about).

I was in a bandit camp in a mountain not bothering anyone, stopping anyone from doing quests. just like a bunch of other players. GM’s posted saying thats ok, its intended.

that IS the bottom line.

Shinjiko.1352:

mauried.5608:

Whats the definition of a 3rd party program?

A program that is not provided by anet themselves. E.g Autohotkey, GW personal assistant , overwolf etc. Things like that.

They aren’t against 3rd party tools in general just ones that allow you do do things in game that you shouldn’t be able to, e.g a key that does multiple things, teleporting around a map.

There are 2 types of 3rd party though.

You can use autoHotkey and macro bases, but they cannot do more then 1 function per key press.

the other type are 3rd party programs that inject data streams to give an unfair advantage (such as ‘flying’ instant teleport, walking through walls) those are what the 3rd party ToS is really about.

sirsquishy.8531:

show me input that says its not allowed. I can show you GM posts that say its permitted and ‘as designed’.

Refer to the following (and also the OP in the 3rd paragraph which is most likely the bridge in Kessex):

Anything that automates game play to the point where you are able to not actually play the game as-intended (example: you can walk away from it) is considered a breach of the User Agreement.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/Has-there-ever-been-an-official-response-on-what-is-considered-botting/first#post204144

When trying to refute that, find a post of Anet stating that it is okay to use skills on auto to circumvent the auto-disconnect timer.

EDIT: Also refer to the attached image.

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

show me input that says its not allowed. I can show you GM posts that say its permitted and ‘as designed’.

Refer to the following (and also the OP):

Anything that automates game play to the point where you are able to not actually play the game as-intended (example: you can walk away from it) is considered a breach of the User Agreement.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/Has-there-ever-been-an-official-response-on-what-is-considered-botting/first#post204144

When trying to refute that, find a post of Anet stating that it is okay to use skills on auto to circumvent the auto-disconnect timer.

I will see your post from 3 years ago and rise you a pst from 30~ days ago

‘I’ve been seeing some rangers camped on a mob spawn letting their pet kill enemies for them, is this considered a form of botting? I know the players are AFK cause they have been there for a couple of hours.’

Anet’s response – This is allowed behavior; as it was designed to function that way.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Ranger-Pet-Botting/first#post6085601

and

Anet’s Repsonse – If your pets are doing the killing and your mastery is doing the looting; you’re okay as far as GMs are concerned. This does not mean design can’t/won’t/should/shouldn’t update the system as it works today.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Ranger-Pet-Botting/page/3#post6093187

So, beat that. I really want you to. Cause as far as I am concerned (and as far as the community should be as well) its permitted until a newer official post is presented.

until then, Anet is at fault and they need to address this once and for all. One way or the other.

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

show me input that says its not allowed. I can show you GM posts that say its permitted and ‘as designed’.

Refer to the following (and also the OP):

Anything that automates game play to the point where you are able to not actually play the game as-intended (example: you can walk away from it) is considered a breach of the User Agreement.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/Has-there-ever-been-an-official-response-on-what-is-considered-botting/first#post204144

When trying to refute that, find a post of Anet stating that it is okay to use skills on auto to circumvent the auto-disconnect timer.

I will see your post from 3 years ago and rise you a pst from 30~ days ago

‘I’ve been seeing some rangers camped on a mob spawn letting their pet kill enemies for them, is this considered a form of botting? I know the players are AFK cause they have been there for a couple of hours.’

Anet’s response – This is allowed behavior; as it was designed to function that way.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Ranger-Pet-Botting/first#post6085601

and

Anet’s Repsonse – If your pets are doing the killing and your mastery is doing the looting; you’re okay as far as GMs are concerned. This does not mean design can’t/won’t/should/shouldn’t update the system as it works today.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Ranger-Pet-Botting/page/3#post6093187

So, beat that. I really want you to. Cause as far as I am concerned (and as far as the community should be as well) its permitted until a newer official post is presented.

until then, Anet is at fault and they need to address this once and for all. One way or the other.

They’re referring specifically to your pets/minions doing the killing. Nowhere did they state that you could use skills on auto to bypass the idle timer. Refer to the following image.

sirsquishy.8531:

show me input that says its not allowed. I can show you GM posts that say its permitted and ‘as designed’.

The post you’d point to only says it’s okay and designed to combine auto-loot with pet kills… it DOES NOT SAY it’s okay to step away from your keyboard for long periods of time while doing it.

You have NOTHING you can point to that says otherwise. Nothing you’ve quoted says what you claim it does.

sirsquishy.8531:

I was in a bandit camp in a mountain not bothering anyone, stopping anyone from doing quests. just like a bunch of other players. GM’s posted saying thats ok, its intended.

that IS the bottom line.

You broke the rules, you got punished. That IS the bottom line.

~EW

Ayrilana.1396:

They’re referring specifically to your pets/minions doing the killing. Nowhere did they state that you could use skills on auto to bypass the idle timer. Refer to the following image.

You aren’t reading it clearly are you? Players are being said they are AFK pets killing auto loot going. Sure auto skills are not mentioned but that IS another in game mechanic just like pets and auto loot. its all in the same scope of work here.

botting and 3rd party mentions are only if you are using an external interface to play the game for you (macros, timed macros, Programs…ect) None of which apply here.

Nice try, but try again.

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’re referring specifically to your pets/minions doing the killing. Nowhere did they state that you could use skills on auto to bypass the idle timer. Refer to the following image.

You aren’t reading it clearly are you? Players are being said they are AFK pets killing auto loot going. Sure auto skills are not mentioned but that IS another in game mechanic just like pets and auto loot. its all in the same scope of work here.

botting and 3rd party mentions are only if you are using an external interface to play the game for you (macros, timed macros, Programs…ect) None of which apply here.

Nice try, but try again.

All that they said was that it is okay to have your pets do the killing. They did not give you permission to auto AFK for extended periods of time by circumventing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

And again, refer to the attached image since you don’t seem to have looked at it.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

sirsquishy.8531:

show me input that says its not allowed. I can show you GM posts that say its permitted and ‘as designed’.

The post you’d point to only says it’s okay and designed to combine auto-loot with pet kills… it DOES NOT SAY it’s okay to step away from your keyboard for long periods of time while doing it.

You have NOTHING you can point to that says otherwise. Nothing you’ve quoted says what you claim it does.

sirsquishy.8531:

I was in a bandit camp in a mountain not bothering anyone, stopping anyone from doing quests. just like a bunch of other players. GM’s posted saying thats ok, its intended.

that IS the bottom line.

You broke the rules, you got punished. That IS the bottom line.

~EW

This isn’t about what I did to get ‘punished’ this is about the GMs being all on the same page and how confusing it is getting with what is being said on forums from the GMs vs what is actually happening in game.

If this is not allowed behavior then they need to post about it to negate the posts that say its allowed. And they are not doing that.

Personally, the can ban me at this point and I wouldn’t give a kitten. As once LS3 is here, if the game feels like it does today for me I am uninstalling. But until then, I will fight based on principal when I feel the company is doing wrong. They need to be held accountable for their actions. Many players are affected by this, not just me. There is a much bigger picture here that goes way beyond just this AFK farming aspect.

I know your world is small and you can only focus on what you are doing, but for a min think about what this is really about and stop making acquisitions that do not matter in the slightest.

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’re referring specifically to your pets/minions doing the killing. Nowhere did they state that you could use skills on auto to bypass the idle timer. Refer to the following image.

You aren’t reading it clearly are you? Players are being said they are AFK pets killing auto loot going. Sure auto skills are not mentioned but that IS another in game mechanic just like pets and auto loot. its all in the same scope of work here.

botting and 3rd party mentions are only if you are using an external interface to play the game for you (macros, timed macros, Programs…ect) None of which apply here.

Nice try, but try again.

All that they said was that it is okay to have your pets do the killing. They did not give you permission to auto AFK for extended periods of time by circumventing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

And again, refer to the attached image.

You should know that I would come back to my console after 2-3 hours to check on bags to salv greens/blues…ect, and sometimes my client was disconnected back to character select or even all the way out to the launcher. I was not going a full 100% AFK, and the game was doing its job to kick my accounts off the maps. The Auto Heal skill only does so much.

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’re referring specifically to your pets/minions doing the killing. Nowhere did they state that you could use skills on auto to bypass the idle timer. Refer to the following image.

You aren’t reading it clearly are you? Players are being said they are AFK pets killing auto loot going. Sure auto skills are not mentioned but that IS another in game mechanic just like pets and auto loot. its all in the same scope of work here.

botting and 3rd party mentions are only if you are using an external interface to play the game for you (macros, timed macros, Programs…ect) None of which apply here.

Nice try, but try again.

All that they said was that it is okay to have your pets do the killing. They did not give you permission to auto AFK for extended periods of time by circumventing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

And again, refer to the attached image.

You should know that I would come back to my console after 2-3 hours to check on bags to salv greens/blues…ect, and sometimes my client was disconnected back to character select or even all the way out to the launcher. I was not going a full 100% AFK, and the game was doing its job to kick my accounts off the maps. The Auto Heal skill only does so much.

And yet you circumvented the idle timer and stayed on 2-3 times longer than intended, while AFK, and using your pets/minions to gain a benefit on top of that.

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’re referring specifically to your pets/minions doing the killing. Nowhere did they state that you could use skills on auto to bypass the idle timer. Refer to the following image.

You aren’t reading it clearly are you? Players are being said they are AFK pets killing auto loot going. Sure auto skills are not mentioned but that IS another in game mechanic just like pets and auto loot. its all in the same scope of work here.

botting and 3rd party mentions are only if you are using an external interface to play the game for you (macros, timed macros, Programs…ect) None of which apply here.

Nice try, but try again.

All that they said was that it is okay to have your pets do the killing. They did not give you permission to auto AFK for extended periods of time by circumventing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

And again, refer to the attached image.

You should know that I would come back to my console after 2-3 hours to check on bags to salv greens/blues…ect, and sometimes my client was disconnected back to character select or even all the way out to the launcher. I was not going a full 100% AFK, and the game was doing its job to kick my accounts off the maps. The Auto Heal skill only does so much.

And yet you circumvented the idle timer and stayed on 2-3 times longer than intended, while AFK, and using your pets/minions to gain a benefit on top of that.

Yup, using an ingame Anet provided mechanic.

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’re referring specifically to your pets/minions doing the killing. Nowhere did they state that you could use skills on auto to bypass the idle timer. Refer to the following image.

You aren’t reading it clearly are you? Players are being said they are AFK pets killing auto loot going. Sure auto skills are not mentioned but that IS another in game mechanic just like pets and auto loot. its all in the same scope of work here.

botting and 3rd party mentions are only if you are using an external interface to play the game for you (macros, timed macros, Programs…ect) None of which apply here.

Nice try, but try again.

All that they said was that it is okay to have your pets do the killing. They did not give you permission to auto AFK for extended periods of time by circumventing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

And again, refer to the attached image.

You should know that I would come back to my console after 2-3 hours to check on bags to salv greens/blues…ect, and sometimes my client was disconnected back to character select or even all the way out to the launcher. I was not going a full 100% AFK, and the game was doing its job to kick my accounts off the maps. The Auto Heal skill only does so much.

And yet you circumvented the idle timer and stayed on 2-3 times longer than intended, while AFK, and using your pets/minions to gain a benefit on top of that.

Yup, using an ingame Anet provided mechanic.

Which was misused in an unintended way like many exploits.

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’re referring specifically to your pets/minions doing the killing. Nowhere did they state that you could use skills on auto to bypass the idle timer. Refer to the following image.

You aren’t reading it clearly are you? Players are being said they are AFK pets killing auto loot going. Sure auto skills are not mentioned but that IS another in game mechanic just like pets and auto loot. its all in the same scope of work here.

botting and 3rd party mentions are only if you are using an external interface to play the game for you (macros, timed macros, Programs…ect) None of which apply here.

Nice try, but try again.

All that they said was that it is okay to have your pets do the killing. They did not give you permission to auto AFK for extended periods of time by circumventing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

And again, refer to the attached image.

You should know that I would come back to my console after 2-3 hours to check on bags to salv greens/blues…ect, and sometimes my client was disconnected back to character select or even all the way out to the launcher. I was not going a full 100% AFK, and the game was doing its job to kick my accounts off the maps. The Auto Heal skill only does so much.

And yet you circumvented the idle timer and stayed on 2-3 times longer than intended, while AFK, and using your pets/minions to gain a benefit on top of that.

Yup, using an ingame Anet provided mechanic.

Which was misused in an unintended way like many exploits.

Its only an exploit if it is unintended to be used at all. In which case Anet can block auto cast on the healing slot. But they dont/wont as its a mechanic that the druid and a few other builds use during raids/heavy PvP content.

so no, you are wrong. yet again.

It seems to me there is only one way to interpret the statements I’ve seen.

This is allowed behavior; as it was designed to function that way.

Is completely unambiguous, the only way to interpret this is: “yes you can”.

Michael Henninger.7451:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Tl;dr intentional mechanics that allow pet kills to give experience and loot =/= permission to afk farm.

This is absolutely correct.

If your pets are doing the killing and your mastery is doing the looting; you’re okay as far as GMs are concerned. This does not mean design can’t/won’t/should/shouldn’t update the system as it works today.

Is somewhat unfortunately written as there seems to be an internal inconsistency but “If your pets are doing the killing and your mastery is doing the looting; you’re okay as far as GMs are concerned.” seems very clearly to mean: “yes you can” as the only way to interpret it as not being allowed is to add “but being AFK while doing so isn’t” which would be unlikely given the topic.

“intentional mechanics that allow pet kills to give experience and loot =/= permission to afk farm.” can be interpreted in different ways:
1: The situation does not allow it, but the post(s) from the support lead do(es).
2: It’s not permitted but you won’t get in trouble for doing it.
3: He means you may at some point in the future no longer be able to do this.

I agree none of these are the most straightforward interpretation of that statement but one of the statements unambiguously states you can, while the second seems to agree and the third (which seems to be the most ambiguous) can be interpreted in such a way as to make it compatible with the other two.

The only reasonable conclusion seems that yes, it is allowed (or at least tolerated).

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’re referring specifically to your pets/minions doing the killing. Nowhere did they state that you could use skills on auto to bypass the idle timer. Refer to the following image.

You aren’t reading it clearly are you? Players are being said they are AFK pets killing auto loot going. Sure auto skills are not mentioned but that IS another in game mechanic just like pets and auto loot. its all in the same scope of work here.

botting and 3rd party mentions are only if you are using an external interface to play the game for you (macros, timed macros, Programs…ect) None of which apply here.

Nice try, but try again.

All that they said was that it is okay to have your pets do the killing. They did not give you permission to auto AFK for extended periods of time by circumventing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

And again, refer to the attached image.

You should know that I would come back to my console after 2-3 hours to check on bags to salv greens/blues…ect, and sometimes my client was disconnected back to character select or even all the way out to the launcher. I was not going a full 100% AFK, and the game was doing its job to kick my accounts off the maps. The Auto Heal skill only does so much.

And yet you circumvented the idle timer and stayed on 2-3 times longer than intended, while AFK, and using your pets/minions to gain a benefit on top of that.

Yup, using an ingame Anet provided mechanic.

Which was misused in an unintended way like many exploits.

Its only an exploit if it is unintended to be used at all. In which case Anet can block auto cast on the healing slot. But they dont/wont as its a mechanic that the druid and a few other builds use during raids/heavy PvP content.

so no, you are wrong. yet again.

They won’t block it likely because it has actual intended uses such as auto casting during a fight.

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’re referring specifically to your pets/minions doing the killing. Nowhere did they state that you could use skills on auto to bypass the idle timer. Refer to the following image.

You aren’t reading it clearly are you? Players are being said they are AFK pets killing auto loot going. Sure auto skills are not mentioned but that IS another in game mechanic just like pets and auto loot. its all in the same scope of work here.

botting and 3rd party mentions are only if you are using an external interface to play the game for you (macros, timed macros, Programs…ect) None of which apply here.

Nice try, but try again.

All that they said was that it is okay to have your pets do the killing. They did not give you permission to auto AFK for extended periods of time by circumventing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

And again, refer to the attached image.

You should know that I would come back to my console after 2-3 hours to check on bags to salv greens/blues…ect, and sometimes my client was disconnected back to character select or even all the way out to the launcher. I was not going a full 100% AFK, and the game was doing its job to kick my accounts off the maps. The Auto Heal skill only does so much.

Gone for 2-3 hours while your pet farmed for you? You somehow thought that was ok? I could get it if you parked yourself there for a TS meeting or to clear your bags but not what you describe.

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’re referring specifically to your pets/minions doing the killing. Nowhere did they state that you could use skills on auto to bypass the idle timer. Refer to the following image.

You aren’t reading it clearly are you? Players are being said they are AFK pets killing auto loot going. Sure auto skills are not mentioned but that IS another in game mechanic just like pets and auto loot. its all in the same scope of work here.

botting and 3rd party mentions are only if you are using an external interface to play the game for you (macros, timed macros, Programs…ect) None of which apply here.

Nice try, but try again.

All that they said was that it is okay to have your pets do the killing. They did not give you permission to auto AFK for extended periods of time by circumventing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

And again, refer to the attached image.

You should know that I would come back to my console after 2-3 hours to check on bags to salv greens/blues…ect, and sometimes my client was disconnected back to character select or even all the way out to the launcher. I was not going a full 100% AFK, and the game was doing its job to kick my accounts off the maps. The Auto Heal skill only does so much.

And yet you circumvented the idle timer and stayed on 2-3 times longer than intended, while AFK, and using your pets/minions to gain a benefit on top of that.

Yup, using an ingame Anet provided mechanic.

Which was misused in an unintended way like many exploits.

Its only an exploit if it is unintended to be used at all. In which case Anet can block auto cast on the healing slot. But they dont/wont as its a mechanic that the druid and a few other builds use during raids/heavy PvP content.

so no, you are wrong. yet again.

They won’t block it likely because it has actual intended uses such as auto casting during a fight.

Which makes it NOT an exploit.

Etienne.3049:

It seems to me there is only one way to interpret the statements I’ve seen.

This is allowed behavior; as it was designed to function that way.

Is completely unambiguous, the only way to interpret this is: “yes you can”.

Michael Henninger.7451:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Tl;dr intentional mechanics that allow pet kills to give experience and loot =/= permission to afk farm.

This is absolutely correct.

If your pets are doing the killing and your mastery is doing the looting; you’re okay as far as GMs are concerned. This does not mean design can’t/won’t/should/shouldn’t update the system as it works today.

Is somewhat unfortunately written as there seems to be an internal inconsistency but “If your pets are doing the killing and your mastery is doing the looting; you’re okay as far as GMs are concerned.” seems very clearly to mean: “yes you can” as the only way to interpret it as not being allowed is to add “but being AFK while doing so isn’t” which would be unlikely given the topic.

“intentional mechanics that allow pet kills to give experience and loot =/= permission to afk farm.” can be interpreted in different ways:
1: The situation does not allow it, but the post(s) from the support lead do(es).
2: It’s not permitted but you won’t get in trouble for doing it.
3: He means you may at some point in the future no longer be able to do this.

I agree none of these are the most straightforward interpretation of that statement but one of the statements unambiguously states you can, while the second seems to agree and the third (which seems to be the most ambiguous) can be interpreted in such a way as to make it compatible with the other two.

The only reasonable conclusion seems that yes, it is allowed (or at least tolerated).

It’s not. The “allowed behavior” was directed at the pets and not bypassing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’re referring specifically to your pets/minions doing the killing. Nowhere did they state that you could use skills on auto to bypass the idle timer. Refer to the following image.

You aren’t reading it clearly are you? Players are being said they are AFK pets killing auto loot going. Sure auto skills are not mentioned but that IS another in game mechanic just like pets and auto loot. its all in the same scope of work here.

botting and 3rd party mentions are only if you are using an external interface to play the game for you (macros, timed macros, Programs…ect) None of which apply here.

Nice try, but try again.

All that they said was that it is okay to have your pets do the killing. They did not give you permission to auto AFK for extended periods of time by circumventing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

And again, refer to the attached image.

You should know that I would come back to my console after 2-3 hours to check on bags to salv greens/blues…ect, and sometimes my client was disconnected back to character select or even all the way out to the launcher. I was not going a full 100% AFK, and the game was doing its job to kick my accounts off the maps. The Auto Heal skill only does so much.

And yet you circumvented the idle timer and stayed on 2-3 times longer than intended, while AFK, and using your pets/minions to gain a benefit on top of that.

Yup, using an ingame Anet provided mechanic.

Which was misused in an unintended way like many exploits.

Its only an exploit if it is unintended to be used at all. In which case Anet can block auto cast on the healing slot. But they dont/wont as its a mechanic that the druid and a few other builds use during raids/heavy PvP content.

so no, you are wrong. yet again.

They won’t block it likely because it has actual intended uses such as auto casting during a fight.

Which makes it NOT an exploit.

No. You’re using it to circumvent the idle timer.

Anet can by all means provide a specific response that will meet what some players are asking for. I’ll even frame the question which only requires a Yes or No. If they say yes then I’ll take all of my accounts and have them AFK farm whenever I am not playing.

Are players allowed to use skills on auto-cast, or any other available means, in order to circumvent the idle timer which would normally kick them back to the character select screen?

Etienne.3049:

It seems to me there is only one way to interpret the statements I’ve seen.

This is allowed behavior; as it was designed to function that way.

Is completely unambiguous, the only way to interpret this is: “yes you can”.

Michael Henninger.7451:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Tl;dr intentional mechanics that allow pet kills to give experience and loot =/= permission to afk farm.

This is absolutely correct.

If your pets are doing the killing and your mastery is doing the looting; you’re okay as far as GMs are concerned. This does not mean design can’t/won’t/should/shouldn’t update the system as it works today.

Is somewhat unfortunately written as there seems to be an internal inconsistency but “If your pets are doing the killing and your mastery is doing the looting; you’re okay as far as GMs are concerned.” seems very clearly to mean: “yes you can” as the only way to interpret it as not being allowed is to add “but being AFK while doing so isn’t” which would be unlikely given the topic.

“intentional mechanics that allow pet kills to give experience and loot =/= permission to afk farm.” can be interpreted in different ways:
1: The situation does not allow it, but the post(s) from the support lead do(es).
2: It’s not permitted but you won’t get in trouble for doing it.
3: He means you may at some point in the future no longer be able to do this.

I agree none of these are the most straightforward interpretation of that statement but one of the statements unambiguously states you can, while the second seems to agree and the third (which seems to be the most ambiguous) can be interpreted in such a way as to make it compatible with the other two.

The only reasonable conclusion seems that yes, it is allowed (or at least tolerated).

Honestly, out of all the quotes the only one that matters

This is allowed behavior;

that is what needs to be cleared up by anet. And until then, this is going to be an ongoing issue. I just hope someone from Anet steps in the middle of the debate here to set the score straight. But given how late in the day it is, I doubt that is going to happen.

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not. The “allowed behavior” was directed at the pets and not bypassing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

Except that is NOT what the GM replied to. The OP of that thread said the Ranger was AFK for HOURS, and then went on auto loot and pet killing.

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not. The “allowed behavior” was directed at the pets and not bypassing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

Except that is NOT what the GM replied to. The OP of that thread said the Ranger was AFK for HOURS, and then went on auto loot and pet killing.

They were referring to the first part of the post with clarifications in a subsequent post.

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not. The “allowed behavior” was directed at the pets and not bypassing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

Except that is NOT what the GM replied to. The OP of that thread said the Ranger was AFK for HOURS, and then went on auto loot and pet killing.

They were referring to the first part of the post with clarifications in a subsequent post.

Sorry but no, the GM responded to the OP’s ENTIRE post. Not just 1 line of text from the post.

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not. The “allowed behavior” was directed at the pets and not bypassing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

Except that is NOT what the GM replied to. The OP of that thread said the Ranger was AFK for HOURS, and then went on auto loot and pet killing.

They were referring to the first part of the post with clarifications in a subsequent post.

Sorry but no, the GM responded to the OP’s ENTIRE post. Not just 1 line of text from the post.

And yet

“This is allowed behavior; as it was designed to function that way.”

makes more sense when applied to

“I’ve been seeing some rangers camped on a mob spawn letting their pet kill enemies for them, is this considered a form of botting?”

than

“I know the players are AFK cause they have been there for a couple of hours.”

The dev just chose not to address that part of the post in theirs.

We’ll its been fun for today. I was kinda hoping this debate would have brought a GM or 2 out of the cracks in the floor to add to the madness. But that didn’t happen, so I’ll try again tomorrow.

As I think everyone can agree on at least this one thing;

We NEED an official response from Anet on this.

Considering that:

Michael Henninger.7451:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Tl;dr intentional mechanics that allow pet kills to give experience and loot =/= permission to afk farm.

This is absolutely correct.

If your pets are doing the killing and your mastery is doing the looting; you’re okay as far as GMs are concerned. This does not mean design can’t/won’t/should/shouldn’t update the system as it works today.

And we players who are saying this means it’s not allowed, coupled with the fact a few players are now getting suspensions even though they’re supposedly not using 3rd Party Programmes, I think it’s safe for all of us to say it’s actually not ok to AFK farm now. Which is how it should be.

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not. The “allowed behavior” was directed at the pets and not bypassing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

Except that is NOT what the GM replied to. The OP of that thread said the Ranger was AFK for HOURS, and then went on auto loot and pet killing.

They were referring to the first part of the post with clarifications in a subsequent post.

Sorry but no, the GM responded to the OP’s ENTIRE post. Not just 1 line of text from the post.

And yet

“This is allowed behavior; as it was designed to function that way.”

makes more sense when applied to

“I’ve been seeing some rangers camped on a mob spawn letting their pet kill enemies for them, is this considered a form of botting?”

than

“I know the players are AFK cause they have been there for a couple of hours.”

The dev just chose not to address that part of the post in theirs.

All you did was break up 1 statement into 2 completely separate statements. The GM responded to BOTH statements as a single issue. To take that any other way is just foolish.

I mean, do you only answer the 1/2 the of the question when its directed at you like that?

Hey, how are you, what time is it?

‘Oh Im fine.’

then nothing.

Yea, i didnt think so.

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not. The “allowed behavior” was directed at the pets and not bypassing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

Except that is NOT what the GM replied to. The OP of that thread said the Ranger was AFK for HOURS, and then went on auto loot and pet killing.

They were referring to the first part of the post with clarifications in a subsequent post.

Sorry but no, the GM responded to the OP’s ENTIRE post. Not just 1 line of text from the post.

And yet

“This is allowed behavior; as it was designed to function that way.”

makes more sense when applied to

“I’ve been seeing some rangers camped on a mob spawn letting their pet kill enemies for them, is this considered a form of botting?”

than

“I know the players are AFK cause they have been there for a couple of hours.”

The dev just chose not to address that part of the post in theirs.

All you did was break up 1 statement into 2 completely separate statements. The GM responded to BOTH statements as a single issue. To take that any other way is just foolish.

I mean, do you only answer the 1/2 the of the question when its directed at you like that?

Hey, how are you, what time is it?

‘Oh Im fine.’

then nothing.

Yea, i didnt think so.

Which the dev did do and then addressed it in a post later in that thread.

penelopehannibal.8947:

Considering that:

Michael Henninger.7451:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Tl;dr intentional mechanics that allow pet kills to give experience and loot =/= permission to afk farm.

This is absolutely correct.

If your pets are doing the killing and your mastery is doing the looting; you’re okay as far as GMs are concerned. This does not mean design can’t/won’t/should/shouldn’t update the system as it works today.

And we players who are saying this means it’s not allowed, coupled with the fact a few players are now getting suspensions even though they’re supposedly not using 3rd Party Programmes, I think it’s safe for all of us to say it’s actually not ok to AFK farm now. Which is how it should be.

The players do not decide, they just merely interpret the rules of what the GMs set.

and currently this rule is confusing.

we have a post that asks about AFK farming with pets and auto loot. we have a GM response saying ‘its allowed; its designed that way’ then we have players that are ignoring the AFK part of the question and other players that say its allowed…ect. its nothing but confusion and needs an official response.

sirsquishy.8531:

The players do not decide, they just merely interpret the rules of what the GMs set.

This is absolutely correct.

The GMs do the decision making. We merely interpreted, and we interpreted correctly it seems.

It really is very easy.
Pets killing mobs without player intervention is intended and allowed.
Loot being picked up without player intervention is intended and allowed.
Going afk is intended and allowed (even when your pets kill mobs while you are gone).
Putting your heal on auto is intended and allowed.

But like in all law/rule systems, specific rules may exist which take certain circumstances into account that turn a *combination of several allowed actions" into one forbidden action. In this specific case multiple things -which are all perfectly fine by themselves- were combined in an unintended way to faciliate “extended automated play” which has always been FORBIDDEN. ArenaNet never made an official statement what “extended” means exactly, but from what sirsquishy wrote his deliberately set up afk-farm definitely qualified as “extended”. That’s all there is to it.

Ayrilana.1396:

Etienne.3049:

…

It’s not. The “allowed behavior” was directed at the pets and not bypassing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

I guess that’s possible, the first post doesn’t mention auto-heal explicitly so none of the statements necessarily say anything whatsoever about auto-heal.

So then that would mean:
AFK pet farming is ok if you return before the timeout to press any key (or just allow the timeout to happen and set it up again when you have time to).
AFK pet farming may or may not be ok with auto-heal to stop the timeout.

But yes, a clarification would be nice.

Etienne.3049:

Ayrilana.1396:

Etienne.3049:

…

It’s not. The “allowed behavior” was directed at the pets and not bypassing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

I guess that’s possible, the first post doesn’t mention auto-heal explicitly so none of the statements necessarily say anything whatsoever about auto-heal.

So then that would mean:
AFK pet farming is ok if you return before the timeout to press any key (or just allow the timeout to happen and set it up again when you have time to).
AFK pet farming may or may not be ok with auto-heal.

But yes, a clarification would be nice.

I agree with the first one but I don’t see why healing on auto cannot be used when AFK. So long as you actively do something within the idle timer window (45 min?) then I don’t see any issues with it personally.

Shikigami.4013:

It really is very easy.
Pets killing mobs without player intervention is intended and allowed.
Loot being picked up without player intervention is intended and allowed.
Going afk is intended and allowed (even when your pets kill mobs while you are gone).
Putting your heal on auto is intended and allowed.

But like in all law/rule systems, specific rules may exist which take certain circumstances into account that turn a *combination of several allowed actions" into one forbidden action. In this specific case multiple things -which are all perfectly fine by themselves- were combined in an unintended way to faciliate “extended automated play” which has always been FORBIDDEN. ArenaNet never made an official statement what “extended” means exactly, but from what sirsquishy wrote his deliberately set up afk-farm definitely qualified as “extended”. That’s all there is to it.

Sure, Extended enough to get a 331hour suspension it seems too.

But, I still say Anet needs to just come out with a public response to the 30~ or so unique threads on this subject, once and for all.

Ayrilana.1396:

Etienne.3049:

Ayrilana.1396:

Etienne.3049:

…

It’s not. The “allowed behavior” was directed at the pets and not bypassing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

I guess that’s possible, the first post doesn’t mention auto-heal explicitly so none of the statements necessarily say anything whatsoever about auto-heal.

So then that would mean:
AFK pet farming is ok if you return before the timeout to press any key (or just allow the timeout to happen and set it up again when you have time to).
AFK pet farming may or may not be ok with auto-heal.

But yes, a clarification would be nice.

I agree with the first one but I don’t see why healing on auto cannot be used when AFK. So long as you actively do something within the idle timer window (45 min?) then I don’t see any issues with it personally.

Exactly, Now you are getting somewhere.

This is what we need clarification on. And if its ‘against the rules’ why are there no in game warnings about it? Think about that for a second.

and the active timeout, there is no place in game that says how long its for. So lets say you leave your game client AFK for 2-3 hours (as I did), where does it say that is too long to be auto AFK for? No where.

Ayrilana.1396:

Etienne.3049:

Ayrilana.1396:

Etienne.3049:

…

It’s not. The “allowed behavior” was directed at the pets and not bypassing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

I guess that’s possible, the first post doesn’t mention auto-heal explicitly so none of the statements necessarily say anything whatsoever about auto-heal.

So then that would mean:
AFK pet farming is ok if you return before the timeout to press any key (or just allow the timeout to happen and set it up again when you have time to).
AFK pet farming may or may not be ok with auto-heal.

But yes, a clarification would be nice.

I agree with the first one but I don’t see why healing on auto cannot be used when AFK. So long as you actively do something within the idle timer window (45 min?) then I don’t see any issues with it personally.

Yes, I did put that somewhat badly, I meant with auto-heal specifically to stop the timeout.

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

Etienne.3049:

Ayrilana.1396:

Etienne.3049:

…

It’s not. The “allowed behavior” was directed at the pets and not bypassing the idle timer by using skills on auto.

I guess that’s possible, the first post doesn’t mention auto-heal explicitly so none of the statements necessarily say anything whatsoever about auto-heal.

So then that would mean:
AFK pet farming is ok if you return before the timeout to press any key (or just allow the timeout to happen and set it up again when you have time to).
AFK pet farming may or may not be ok with auto-heal.

But yes, a clarification would be nice.

I agree with the first one but I don’t see why healing on auto cannot be used when AFK. So long as you actively do something within the idle timer window (45 min?) then I don’t see any issues with it personally.

Exactly, Now you are getting somewhere.

This is what we need clarification on. And if its ‘against the rules’ why are there no in game warnings about it? Think about that for a second.

and the active timeout, there is no place in game that says how long its for. So lets say you leave your game client AFK for 2-3 hours (as I did), where does it say that is too long to be auto AFK for? No where.

They’re not going to put a warning for all variations/interpretations of every rule in the game.

It doesn’t matter if there’s someplace that says how long it is for. The fact that it goes off after a specific amount of time is all that is needed.

Here’s something interesting. There’s a spot in Tyria that you can kill mobs pretty much nonstop that yield a loot bag that sells for just over 6 silver and a salvage items that sells for a little over 7 silver. Let’s just assume the average is 6 silver.

If I were to farm that spot, and wanted to make 20 gold per hour after taxes, I would need to 392 of those items. Impossible for a single account. But what if I had all three of my computers running with 7 of my accounts. This would come out to the 20 gold per hour, 480 gold per day, 3,360 gold per week, 13,440 gold per month, and 161,280 gold per year.

Assuming I have them farm nonstop uninterrupted and the prices do not change.

sirsquishy.8531:

I agree with the first one but I don’t see why healing on auto cannot be used when AFK. So long as you actively do something within the idle timer window (45 min?) then I don’t see any issues with it personally.

Exactly, Now you are getting somewhere.

This is what we need clarification on. And if its ‘against the rules’ why are there no in game warnings about it? Think about that for a second.

and the active timeout, there is no place in game that says how long its for. So lets say you leave your game client AFK for 2-3 hours (as I did), where does it say that is too long to be auto AFK for? No where. [/quote]

Severe Facepalm Way to go on admitting to botting ( yes that is what you were doing)

No where in tos is it stated that you HAVE to participate in events.
No where in the tos does it say that you HAVE to party with other players.
No where in the tos does it say you HAVE to respond to other players.

You may use macros as long as they perfrom only 1 keypress action for only 1 gw2 game.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Policy-3rd-Party-Programs-Multi-Boxing-Macros/first#post6010948

However the moment you admitted to stepping away from the game for an extended period of time you crossed the threshold into using an automated program ( aka botting). You don’t admit guilt – you know when you get pulled for doing 15 over and the cop asks you " do you know how fast you were going?" you DONT ADMIT to doing 15 over.

Theres no need for further clarifcation.

sirsquishy.8531:

If this is not allowed behavior then they need to post about it to negate the posts that say its allowed. And they are not doing that.

They did. I was the one quoted as part of that clarification.

sirsquishy.8531:

I know your world is small and you can only focus on what you are doing, but for a min think about what this is really about and stop making acquisitions that do not matter in the slightest.

Stop making claims that are fallacious, and we can talk about how narrow my focus on life is. We can meet at a pub, buy each other a drink, and try to see one another as people.

Etienne.3049:

Is somewhat unfortunately written as there seems to be an internal inconsistency but “If your pets are doing the killing and your mastery is doing the looting; you’re okay as far as GMs are concerned.” seems very clearly to mean: “yes you can” as the only way to interpret it as not being allowed is to add “but being AFK while doing so isn’t” which would be unlikely given the topic.

No. You (and others) are inserting the “while afk” qualifier into that statement. “If your pets are doing the killing and your mastery is doing the looting; you’re okay as far as GMs are concerned” does not say anything about being afk… it’s talking about mechanics specifically and only.

Etienne.3049:

“intentional mechanics that allow pet kills to give experience and loot =/= permission to afk farm.” can be interpreted in different ways:
1: The situation does not allow it, but the post(s) from the support lead do(es).
2: It’s not permitted but you won’t get in trouble for doing it.
3: He means you may at some point in the future no longer be able to do this.

Again, No. None of those interpretations are accurate. What it means is mechanics are not the same as policy. Just because you are able to do something, doesn’t mean it’s okay to do it. That is the functional definition of an exploit.

Etienne.3049:

The only reasonable conclusion seems that yes, it is allowed (or at least tolerated).

At no point is it said, “it is okay to afk farm.” So, the only reasonable conclusion is that you can use the mechanics of pet kills and auto loot while you’re actively playing the game.

sirsquishy.8531:

Ayrilana.1396:

And yet you circumvented the idle timer and stayed on 2-3 times longer than intended, while AFK, and using your pets/minions to gain a benefit on top of that.

Yup, using an ingame Anet provided mechanic.

I will point you to Ayrilana’s earlier quote of the ANet statement: “Anything that automates game play to the point where you are able to not actually play the game as-intended (example: you can walk away from it) is considered a breach of the User Agreement.”

The statement says anything. It does not say only 3rd party software. Anything includes exploitive use of in-game mechanics in a way outside their intended purpose.

~EW

Whats meant by “playing the game as intended”?
Is there some prescribed method of how the game is to be played, and if so where can I see the explanation of how the game is to be played, so that I know I am playing it as intended.
I suspect that there wont be any clear statement from Anet on this , because the game itself allows thru in game mechanisms for game play to occur without any action on the part of the player, ie pets killing mobs, which is effectively automated play.
If this is allowed, then its going to be hard to ban other forms of automated play.

Just to clarify, auto-casting a skill is not keeping a person from getting timed out. I have sat in the same place for 4-5 hours just letting my minions kill stuff and have never gotten dc’d. No auto attack, no macro, nothing. Never even given a warning that I would be timed out. So that argument is pretty much out of the window. So the only thing I can think is the mastery auto loot moving drops into your inventory are somehow whats causing lack of timing out.

End Time Elijah.6308:

Just to clarify, auto-casting a skill is not keeping a person from getting timed out. I have sat in the same place for 4-5 hours just letting my minions kill stuff and have never gotten dc’d. No auto attack, no macro, nothing. Never even given a warning that I would be timed out. So that argument is pretty much out of the window. So the only thing I can think is the mastery auto loot moving drops into your inventory are somehow whats causing lack of timing out.

This. Either the mastery or the sheer act of entering and leaving combat as the ai attacks.

Only sure way to test this is to get someone willing to sit and watch that doesn’t have the autoloot whilst letting their pets / minions put them in combat for an hour. Or can you turn auto loot off in settings?

But then again probably best not to for fear of being wrongly accused of using 3rd party software.

The way I see it. Anet should not even be issuing any suspensions or bans regarding this until it is cleared up. Too many people are throwing different things and thoughts around which is confusing people. We know it is thought to be wrong/ dishonest. But other than a 3 year old post we have nothing saying it is not allowed. Pair that up with the 2 responses from a GM a month ago that implies it is allowed. Regardless of if it was a reply to one line or the whole post. It can still be interpreted as such. This just adds to the confusion as these players might genuinely believe they are breaking no rules.

On another note, they need to reevaluate how they detect 3rd party tool violations. Because I’ve got friends that in the past have been suspended for this when they haven’t even done anything. Some that are only days into the game so have no knowledge of any mechanics. I imagine it’s just a mass reporting that flags it and they just do it. Imagine how that can be abused say in a pvp match where people get extremely salty.

Shinjiko.1352:

(Snip)
On another note, they need to reevaluate how they detect 3rd party tool violations. Because I’ve got friends that in the past have been suspended for this when they haven’t even done anything. Some that are only days into the game so have no knowledge of any mechanics. I imagine it’s just a mass reporting that flags it and they just do it. Imagine how that can be abused say in a pvp match where people get extremely salty.

A comment about what Gaile has said about mass reporting and bans.

Gaile Gray.6029:

warduke.1780:
I’d also like to hear Anet’s input. Is this true – do you ban players just because dozens/hundreds of other players report them?

Nope. You can rest assured, if 100 players report Fred, but Fred’s not doing anything wrong, he’s going to be just fine. The 100 false reporters? Not so fine, if they start abusing the report system. (And we may not use the exact message as expressed above, but that’s pretty much how it works.)

That bit that someone said in the OP’s screenshot about “1,000 posts and the player is auto-banned” is ridiculously untrue.

What category do you think these people are choosing? Here are the categories:
Botting
Inappropriate Character Name
Spamming
Verbal Abuse
Scamming
Selling Gold
LFG System Abuse.

I will check with CS to see if there’s a trend of false reporting, and ask them if they may want to increase tracking reporting players to check for signs of abuse.
Thanks for this discussion. It’s good to be able to set the record straight.

sirsquishy.8531:

‘I’ve been seeing some rangers camped on a mob spawn letting their pet kill enemies for them, is this considered a form of botting? I know the players are AFK cause they have been there for a couple of hours.’

Anet’s response – This is allowed behavior; as it was designed to function that way.

To be fair the only behavior described as actually occurring that the Anet rep could have been commenting on was the, “camped on a mob spawn letting their pet kill enemies for them.”

The claim of AFK was pure speculation and not confirmed behavior. So, when Anet commented on what IS allowed behavior he would have been referring to what was described as actually happening.

All of that said…I think that Anet needs to be more clear in the message they are sending. Some of the forum comments really do give the impression that this is accepted while others clearly contradict that impression. You really dont want your customers to be caught in a situation of, “mom says its ok, but dad says no.”

Ayrilana.1396:

The advantage that they are getting is making gold (through drops) while not being at their computer. Whether or not there are better ways to make gold while actively playing is irrelavent.

I see. So by that logic players who flip stuff on the TP (putting in buy orders, logging off, then logging back in later and listing what they bought, then logging back out) are also in this same situation? After all they are making gold without playing and while not only being afk, but completely logged off!

Sigh…

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

Ayrilana.1396:

The advantage that they are getting is making gold (through drops) while not being at their computer. Whether or not there are better ways to make gold while actively playing is irrelavent.

I see. So by that logic players who flip stuff on the TP (putting in buy orders, logging off, then logging back in later and listing what they bought, then logging back out) are also in this same situation? After all they are making gold without playing and while not only being afk, but completely logged off!

Sigh…

Your argument doesn’t make sense.

When someone uses the TP, (whether to flip or not) one click places an order, one click makes a purchase and one click sells an item. It’s irrelevant to AFK farming where someone makes one click to walk away and gain more than one loot, whilst the character is staying in the game as indefinitely as they can.

The two are nowhere near the same, and I think you know it. This sounds like you’re scraping the barrel to come up with a justification for these AFK farmers.