Guild Wars 2

Fixing forum bugs I guess.

The Tengu will happen guys, We just have to put enough of a voice into it. Mounts happened when they were stated to be built out of the game (waypoints). At launch they said they would never do mounts, and yet here we are because people voiced at how much they wanted them.

Last I checked the races bound together to stop any/all forces that would seek to destroy Tyria or cause big badabooms.

And HoT, aside from Ep4? were not very human centric at all.

GW1 was allllllll humans but no one batted and eye. Now we have 3/4 not human playable races, an expansion focusing on Maguuma life and creatures, but we goin to Elona where there are humes and ermagherd its the humepocalpyse.

As for fantasy and humans… Yes the majority of fantasy worlds revolve around humans being surrounded by non-human and human-esque creatures/life.

Which is why we need more inhuman characters

Svartwolf.3729:

Ugh, the true reason why we haven’t had another race join is not cause “it doesnt fit the story”, (Thats dumb as hell), but because the developers consider that the work/reward ratio isnt there…

I wouldn’t say that “it’s why we haven’t had another race”, just a consideration when adding a feature. Saying that suchandsuch is the reason we don’t have something alludes to you having inside knowledge because, as far as we know, they could have been putting in work to add one or more races to the game since the very early era of the game, in which case, the reason we don’t have it is because they aren’t finished.

Saying that its because of a work/reward ration alludes that they have stated they will not add a new race unless that problem (work/reward ratio) is resolved.

The only “reason” that can be 100% accurate is that the devs simply want to add other things into the game first. That’s it.

Leo G.4501:

Svartwolf.3729:

Ugh, the true reason why we haven’t had another race join is not cause “it doesnt fit the story”, (Thats dumb as hell), but because the developers consider that the work/reward ratio isnt there…

I wouldn’t say that “it’s why we haven’t had another race”, just a consideration when adding a feature. Saying that suchandsuch is the reason we don’t have something alludes to you having inside knowledge because, as far as we know, they could have been putting in work to add one or more races to the game since the very early era of the game, in which case, the reason we don’t have it is because they aren’t finished.

Saying that its because of a work/reward ration alludes that they have stated they will not add a new race unless that problem (work/reward ratio) is resolved.

The only “reason” that can be 100% accurate is that the devs simply want to add other things into the game first. That’s it.

True and Id rather a finished product than a rushed one.

Thornwolf.9721:

Shinzan.2908:

At that point they could just add a tengu outfit or transmog potion.

That would be horrible, and unforgivable.

Why?

• They won’t create a new Personal Story for Tengu.
• They won’t create a new starter area and tutorial for Tengu. They hated doing this in GW1, which is why there is no HoT or PoF starter area and tutorial.
• They won’t re-do every armor skin to suit a new body model, which they need to do to be professional.
• If the answer to these is to start at or boost to level 80 upon creation and not allow certain armors, then it is purely a cosmetic change.

Therefore; Just create a Tengu outfit and sound effects to go with it.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

• They won’t create a new Personal Story for Tengu.
• They won’t create a new starter area and tutorial for Tengu.

This reminds be a bit of Death Knights in Wrath. They got insta-leveled to 50 or 55 and had a short starting story. Then they went out into the world. Nothing would stop ANet from starting Tengu characters in similar fashion, if they wanted to. I suspect they don’t, for reasons pertaining to armor issues (even if Tengu got no access to existing sets) and voice acting. However, there would certainly be options to incorporate them into the narrative if they wanted to. In fact, since the Tengu have not yet come boiling out of their refuge, putting them into the personal story would be immersion breaking.

You’re not getting it…

They have all of the playable races they have because they fit within the narrative of the story they are crafting. Like I said, if Tengu eventually fit into it then great whatever, add them. However until then they have yet to actually fit into the story and as such it is highly doubtful that Anet is going to add them before that is a likelihood. If anything Anet has shown that they do many things within the canon of the game. There is lore behind pretty much every aspect of content in this game. Raiding has lore, dungeons have lore, Fractals have lore, the meta events across the maps have lore, WvW has lore assigned to it.

You accuse people here of ignorance when you’re the one ignoring the reality of the situation. I understand people want Tengu. I get it. However be realistic about how and why they would even be implemented and understand that those things would need to be considered and make sense within the story that is being crafted here in GW2.

Trying to shoehorn them into the story, trying to force them in, is not going to do them or the game any justice.

Leo G.4501:

Svartwolf.3729:

Ugh, the true reason why we haven’t had another race join is not cause “it doesnt fit the story”, (Thats dumb as hell), but because the developers consider that the work/reward ratio isnt there…

I wouldn’t say that “it’s why we haven’t had another race”, just a consideration when adding a feature. Saying that suchandsuch is the reason we don’t have something alludes to you having inside knowledge because, as far as we know, they could have been putting in work to add one or more races to the game since the very early era of the game, in which case, the reason we don’t have it is because they aren’t finished.

Saying that its because of a work/reward ration alludes that they have stated they will not add a new race unless that problem (work/reward ratio) is resolved.

The only “reason” that can be 100% accurate is that the devs simply want to add other things into the game first. That’s it.

I don’t have inside knowledge, but i do have safe assumptions, and facts, and there are 2 facts that A) developers are aware than some of us want a new race. two expansions knowing this but no new race. these at least tell us that a new race isnt prioritary, or certainly less prioritary than new maps, new ways of exploring and new professions/specs.

that being said, we know that a new race IS a lot of work, and certainly the work/reward ratio of it was worse than gliding or implementing specs, (which probably also was lot of work) that being said, certainly is a problem with a solution, and thats it that the interest of a new race, or the “reward” outgrows the work (or that Anet stumbles with a miraculous solution to cut the amount of work, but wouldnt bet on that). and who knows, maybe is quite high in their list on priorities, just behind mounts and elona. but as long as they dont feel that its worthwhile they certainly not doing it, specially since no-one wants a new race as an lazy afterthough.

In that regard i dont think our opinions actually disagree that much, and the point of my comment above was that the story was being written withouth tengus making sense on it cause they are not a playable race, not that they are not a playable race because the story was being written without them on it, which some people were implying. If Anet want to implent another race, that race will start making sense on the story, unless you are a norn I guess XD

(I do love asura, and asura along humans have been getting some love on the story, but sometimes i feel that the only reason they get that much screen time is because they are good plot expositionist :c )

Actually the way I heard it tengu were going to be the sixth playable race at launch, only they ran of either time or resources so they got cut.

Besides the narrative is written by anet so if they wanted to put in the resources to make tengu playable they’d just do it and write the story accordingly.

KryTiKaL.3125:

You’re not getting it…

They have all of the playable races they have because they fit within the narrative of the story they are crafting. Like I said, if Tengu eventually fit into it then great whatever, add them. However until then they have yet to actually fit into the story and as such it is highly doubtful that Anet is going to add them before that is a likelihood. If anything Anet has shown that they do many things within the canon of the game. There is lore behind pretty much every aspect of content in this game. Raiding has lore, dungeons have lore, Fractals have lore, the meta events across the maps have lore, WvW has lore assigned to it.

You accuse people here of ignorance when you’re the one ignoring the reality of the situation. I understand people want Tengu. I get it. However be realistic about how and why they would even be implemented and understand that those things would need to be considered and make sense within the story that is being crafted here in GW2.

Trying to shoehorn them into the story, trying to force them in, is not going to do them or the game any justice.

Your just copy pasting your crap from earlier, it can and will happen im 100% sure of it if they want this game to surrvive. You need to get over your xenophobia and stop trying to be like “It cant happen”. Grimm and everyone else who has given you solid answers as well as myself are sitting here lacking the understanding of your logic, there are ways around the “Narrative” which again has made no sense since the start of GW2.

Shinzan.2908:

Actually the way I heard it tengu were going to be the sixth playable race at launch, only they ran of either time or resources so they got cut.

Actually some of the devs mensioned that in HoT they were choosing between a new race (tengu) and a new profession (revenant). They chose revenant, but we can see their work on tengu in a form of new modeled and animated ones in Auric Basin and guild halls.

Nick Lentz.6982:

Lol the narrative makes any sense now? I’m half waiting for Taimi to say she is the next elder dragon.

What? No…

Taimi made an Elder Dragon out of samples from Primordus and GEORmag and Aurene, and she’s raising it to crush Balthazar and the re-resurrection of Lazarus (who she is re-resurrecting to test her new dragon).

@Thornwolf.9721

Yes I did copy paste my previous post, it had to be removed because it quoted your post that got removed.

It has nothing to do with xenophobia. I don’t hate the race, I don’t hate the idea I also understand Grimm’s points. However while those are fine concepts, my point still stands that just adding a race “just cuz” is just silly. Also how has the narrative of the game “made no sense” since the start of the game? Isn’t that just purely perspective and possibly entirely the reason why you might not quite grasp why just shoehorning the Tengu in for little reason other than “just cuz” is problematic? Maybe you’re not quite clear on the actual story and where the plot has gone and even come from? Lots of variables to consider there.

I don’t think you’re quite understanding my position here honestly. I have no issues with them adding the Tengu or some other new race, I really don’t. Hell I wouldn’t mind playing a Kodan. Could it happen? Maybe. Will it happen? Who knows. My point is that trying to “force their hand” or pull some massive community uproar about it isn’t going to change the simple fact that within the narrative elements of the game it just…doesn’t make sense right now. You seem to be very defensive about this entire situation, you seem to really want the Tengu to be playable.

To give a little background to the Tengu of the GW2 of today, they are very isolationist. They have themselves primarily walled up within the Dominion of Winds and have seemingly not come out except for a very select few Tengu and the outer settlements that they do have are primarily for trade and nothing else, of which there are only two such settlements. Beyond that there are even fewer Tengu that left the Dominion of Winds to join orders like Izu Steelshrike who is there as a blacksmith. The only other Tengu beyond the Dominion of Winds are the ones within the Maguuma Jungle and they are hostile.

Like I said, I understand your desire for the new race but seriously…dial it back. Dial it back * a lot*.

KryTiKaL.3125:

@Thornwolf.9721

Yes I did copy paste my previous post, it had to be removed because it quoted your post that got removed.

It has nothing to do with xenophobia. I don’t hate the race, I don’t hate the idea I also understand Grimm’s points. However while those are fine concepts, my point still stands that just adding a race “just cuz” is just silly. Also how has the narrative of the game “made no sense” since the start of the game? Isn’t that just purely perspective and possibly entirely the reason why you might not quite grasp why just shoehorning the Tengu in for little reason other than “just cuz” is problematic? Maybe you’re not quite clear on the actual story and where the plot has gone and even come from? Lots of variables to consider there.

I don’t think you’re quite understanding my position here honestly. I have no issues with them adding the Tengu or some other new race, I really don’t. Hell I wouldn’t mind playing a Kodan. Could it happen? Maybe. Will it happen? Who knows. My point is that trying to “force their hand” or pull some massive community uproar about it isn’t going to change the simple fact that within the narrative elements of the game it just…doesn’t make sense right now. You seem to be very defensive about this entire situation, you seem to really want the Tengu to be playable.

To give a little background to the Tengu of the GW2 of today, they are very isolationist. They have themselves primarily walled up within the Dominion of Winds and have seemingly not come out except for a very select few Tengu and the outer settlements that they do have are primarily for trade and nothing else, of which there are only two such settlements. Beyond that there are even fewer Tengu that left the Dominion of Winds to join orders like Izu Steelshrike who is there as a blacksmith. The only other Tengu beyond the Dominion of Winds are the ones within the Maguuma Jungle and they are hostile.

Like I said, I understand your desire for the new race but seriously…dial it back. Dial it back * a lot*.

I wont dial it back until is implemented, Dont tell me what to do or how to do it. The devs wont add something unless they are either pushed, interest is shown or ect. Mounts are PRIME example, as again they were said to NEVER be a thing. The whole game was built around not needing mounts, and now they will be required for all future maps. That is a huge change that came about partly based on the communities desire overall for mounts, and the success of gliding.

If we dont tell them what we want in a respectful manner they wont implement it, and thats just how the world of services work. If the manufacturer does not know what is in high demand or what COULD sell really well, they wont make it and thus the consumer is left unhappy.

I would like to see Tengu as a playable race.

I think a lot of good ideas were proposed in this thread to implement them.

Also, maybe we could have a survey in game about that instead of just speculating based on who’s the most visible on the forums, right?

Yunjii Sun.3512:

I would like to see Tengu as a playable race.

I think a lot of good ideas were proposed in this thread to implement them.

Also, maybe we could have a survey in game about that instead of just speculating based on who’s the most visible on the forums, right?

I wish that was how it worked, would make things way more easy.

Thornwolf.9721:

KryTiKaL.3125:

@Thornwolf.9721

Yes I did copy paste my previous post, it had to be removed because it quoted your post that got removed.

It has nothing to do with xenophobia. I don’t hate the race, I don’t hate the idea I also understand Grimm’s points. However while those are fine concepts, my point still stands that just adding a race “just cuz” is just silly. Also how has the narrative of the game “made no sense” since the start of the game? Isn’t that just purely perspective and possibly entirely the reason why you might not quite grasp why just shoehorning the Tengu in for little reason other than “just cuz” is problematic? Maybe you’re not quite clear on the actual story and where the plot has gone and even come from? Lots of variables to consider there.

I don’t think you’re quite understanding my position here honestly. I have no issues with them adding the Tengu or some other new race, I really don’t. Hell I wouldn’t mind playing a Kodan. Could it happen? Maybe. Will it happen? Who knows. My point is that trying to “force their hand” or pull some massive community uproar about it isn’t going to change the simple fact that within the narrative elements of the game it just…doesn’t make sense right now. You seem to be very defensive about this entire situation, you seem to really want the Tengu to be playable.

To give a little background to the Tengu of the GW2 of today, they are very isolationist. They have themselves primarily walled up within the Dominion of Winds and have seemingly not come out except for a very select few Tengu and the outer settlements that they do have are primarily for trade and nothing else, of which there are only two such settlements. Beyond that there are even fewer Tengu that left the Dominion of Winds to join orders like Izu Steelshrike who is there as a blacksmith. The only other Tengu beyond the Dominion of Winds are the ones within the Maguuma Jungle and they are hostile.

Like I said, I understand your desire for the new race but seriously…dial it back. Dial it back * a lot*.

I wont dial it back until is implemented, Dont tell me what to do or how to do it. The devs wont add something unless they are either pushed, interest is shown or ect. Mounts are PRIME example, as again they were said to NEVER be a thing. The whole game was built around not needing mounts, and now they will be required for all future maps. That is a huge change that came about partly based on the communities desire overall for mounts, and the success of gliding.

If we dont tell them what we want in a respectful manner they wont implement it, and thats just how the world of services work. If the manufacturer does not know what is in high demand or what COULD sell really well, they wont make it and thus the consumer is left unhappy.

And they have heard it. I never said they wouldn’t nor that they would ignore it, I’m saying tone down your attitude because kitten . I have consistently said in this thread that they could, maybe they will, but it won’t happen until there is a narrative place for it in the game. That has been the only thing I’ve been speaking of in this thread, not the likelihood of it, not that they should ignore you, not that you have a terrible idea, but that it would be silly to expect them to just shove it in there with no thought and with barely any context. If they are going to implement a new race I would rather them do it right and add it with more story than “just cuz” which I don’t think they would ever do.

We could still see Tengu as playable, we could still not see them as playable. We can’t know for sure and the devs have heard this, I’m sure, since it got posted about in hordes when HoT was announced. Just tone it down and don’t get so emotionally defensive when all I’m doing is trying to enforce the idea that they likely will not do it until there is a valid narrative reason to do so and then they will do that appropriately when they can devote the time and resources to it.

Like I said…dial it back, you’re very clearly getting overly emotional about this subject.

KryTiKaL.3125:

Also how has the narrative of the game “made no sense” since the start of the game?

Revenants playing through personal story and LS2 makes no sence, especially sending Rythlock to the mists in LS2 so he can become the first revenant (lol). Compaired to that tengu playing through personal story actually makes sence, as there were some tengu in the Pact during Orr campain.

@KryTiKaL.3125
I literally cant stand you at all, The narrative has taken so many turns that at this point the story is pathetically dull in the game. The first arc of the gw2 narrative Is weak, the whole base game storyline is weak especially compared too GW1’s narrative. They bring up NOTHING From the original game, and force feed us stupid tree elves. And again In HoT we get a bunch of Deus Ex forced down our throat, it was not until the last living story that the narrative got going in a good way. We have good story arc’s and conclusions too things that otherwise were left unsaid. We also got to see Livia who was and probably still is a HUGE lore figure. You want to talk narrative alright lets talk narrative, Narratively the sylvary should be eradicated by races like the charr and humans based on the fact they were dragon minions. From a narrative stand point both races would of revolted and attacked, which did not happen once so ever anywhere.

Oh here is a prime example of why the narrative does not matter, Faolin shows up in HoT and we have not seen her ONCE since launch. We beat here in the storyline for Twilight arbor and then she vanishes, she shows up in HoT. Causes Eir’s death which was BS in its own right, and then dies and becomes a vinetooth. Eir who could carve diamonds in her bear form, a norn could not shapeshift one last time and at least fight. If we are to believe she was exhausted it was poorly executed, We had no concept on how long they had been out there. Too me it seemed like it had been a day, maybe two at tops and im sure Eir would of killed faolin. How about the retconing of the old guild wars lore? Abaddon is a good guy now according to the snuff in the acheivo’s you get within sirens landing, and all the other gods are bad. Oh and lets not forget the vanilla game and how it made no sense, the first dragon to awaken was primordus. We fought his champion in Eye of the north, and saw him awaken at the end of the game. Then we end up fighting Zaithan and it acts like he woke up first, yet it was Primordus we were fighting and who we woke up. And he has played second fiddle to some god, and his two brothers? Primordus should of been our first fight to finish up what we started in guild wars 1, then we should of gone to Jormag as he is EXPLICITLY mentioned in the norn storyline. But we will never get anything outside of “lets put them back to sleep” with them. We are finally getting to see Krak who for all intents and purposes is the most important lore wise, as he killed glint and beat destiny’s edge.

Yet we never really got anything about any of that until recently, so once more your argument falls flat. The narrative has been borked since GW2 launched, and only recently has it made a semi-turn around. The work that this would require to do would be no more tedious than gliding/mounts, maybe less with how polished the race is. The lore can be changed/stretched or reworked as they HAVE DONE with everything else, So the Narrative is a Weak argument due to the narratives lack of solid continuity until recently.

As stated above Revenants are another prime example.

Since I don’t really care all that much for Tengu (Or Asura, Charr, Norn, or Sylvari), I would prefer if time and resources spent developing them as a playable race were used on other things:

• Non-expansion elite specializations
• More Living Story content
• More armor and weapon sets
• More dungeons, fractals, and raids

Diak Atoli.2085:

Since I don’t really care all that much for Tengu (Or Asura, Charr, Norn, or Sylvari), I would prefer if time and resources spent developing them as a playable race were used on other things:

• Non-expansion elite specializations
• More Living Story content
• More armor and weapon sets
• More dungeons, fractals, and raids

If it was sold as a premise behind an expansion it would be fine, Dungeons wont happen the did away with them. There will be raids every expansion and fractals and the rest get regular updates, I dont care for humans but I dont go into the forums about them and say “Well No dont do it because im a xenophobic” .

Thornwolf.9721:

@KryTiKaL.3125
I literally cant stand you at all, The narrative has taken so many turns that at this point the story is pathetically dull in the game. The first arc of the gw2 narrative Is weak, the whole base game storyline is weak especially compared too GW1’s narrative. They bring up NOTHING From the original game, and force feed us stupid tree elves. And again In HoT we get a bunch of Deus Ex forced down our throat, it was not until the last living story that the narrative got going in a good way. We have good story arc’s and conclusions too things that otherwise were left unsaid. We also got to see Livia who was and probably still is a HUGE lore figure. You want to talk narrative alright lets talk narrative, Narratively the sylvary should be eradicated by races like the charr and humans based on the fact they were dragon minions. From a narrative stand point both races would of revolted and attacked, which did not happen once so ever anywhere.

Oh here is a prime example of why the narrative does not matter, Faolin shows up in HoT and we have not seen her ONCE since launch. We beat here in the storyline for Twilight arbor and then she vanishes, she shows up in HoT. Causes Eir’s death which was BS in its own right, and then dies and becomes a vinetooth. Eir who could carve diamonds in her bear form, a norn could not shapeshift one last time and at least fight. If we are to believe she was exhausted it was poorly executed, We had no concept on how long they had been out there. Too me it seemed like it had been a day, maybe two at tops and im sure Eir would of killed faolin. How about the retconing of the old guild wars lore? Abaddon is a good guy now according to the snuff in the acheivo’s you get within sirens landing, and all the other gods are bad. Oh and lets not forget the vanilla game and how it made no sense, the first dragon to awaken was primordus. We fought his champion in Eye of the north, and saw him awaken at the end of the game. Then we end up fighting Zaithan and it acts like he woke up first, yet it was Primordus we were fighting and who we woke up. And he has played second fiddle to some god, and his two brothers? Primordus should of been our first fight to finish up what we started in guild wars 1, then we should of gone to Jormag as he is EXPLICITLY mentioned in the norn storyline. But we will never get anything outside of “lets put them back to sleep” with them. We are finally getting to see Krak who for all intents and purposes is the most important lore wise, as he killed glint and beat destiny’s edge.

Yet we never really got anything about any of that until recently, so once more your argument falls flat. The narrative has been borked since GW2 launched, and only recently has it made a semi-turn around. The work that this would require to do would be no more tedious than gliding/mounts, maybe less with how polished the race is. The lore can be changed/stretched or reworked as they HAVE DONE with everything else, So the Narrative is a Weak argument due to the narratives lack of solid continuity until recently.

As stated above Revenants are another prime example.

Your personal perceptions of how the narrative of a story “should have gone” are completely irrelevant to how they did go.

Also that was not the first time that Faolain had shown up since launch. She had shown up, albeit in flashbacks, during Living World Season 2, giving more context to her and Caithe’s history and Faolain’s descent into the crazed fanatic we see in Twilight Arbor.

As for Abaddon, what you see on Siren’s Landing is texts, excerpts from tomes from a time before and after Abaddon had betrayed his brothers and sisters and unleashed uncontrolled magic upon Tyria. He was a well worshiped god in Orr prior to his fall and had taken issue with the fact that his fellow gods sealed magic away and went to war with them because of it. Abaddons worship was more secretive, and he even influenced the world after his imprisonment which is what lead to Orr being sunk, the Charr worshiping the titans, and Shiro Tagachi murdering the Emperor and causing the Jade Wind.

In regards to Zhaitan and Primordus, people refer to Zhaitan as the first dragon to fall, not to rise. He was also most involved in attempting to invade cities and the like, more than the others seemed to be at the time as he went as far as assaulting Claw Island. He was a bit more proactive than the others until Mordremoth was triggered by Scarlet Briar drilling kitten into a ley line. Also Primordus didn’t awaken at the end of Eye of the North, the defeat of The Great Destroyer and the success of the Rite of the Great Dwarf halted it for a while longer.

As for Kralkatorrik, yes there was an attempt made to fell him and it almost succeeded, but it did fail and he had fled and it was unknown where they had fled to after retreating from Destiny’s Edge. We’re getting that question answered now, and more than likely it needed to recover if it was nearly defeated. That is just a guess, though, based off observation.

You can cite “oh this should have happened, that should have happened and that shouldn’t have happened” as arguments against the story of the game all you want, but that ultimately falls flat due to, what seems to be, a skewed perception of the storyline and established lore.

I think you really just can’t stand me because I’m just giving criticism as opposed to just flat out supporting your suggestion. Like I keep saying, I’m all for it so long as it makes sense. Which until it does and until they find a way to work it in alongside their narrative then it won’t happen. Not. Yet.

Well then dont update their models, dont hint and dont even bring them to any major populated area. I would appreciate the removal of them from my guild hall and would like them to be forgotten rather than showed off, and wiggled infront of us. Not yet? Not freaking yet? For real and we get kittenty mounts as a substitute because, oh yes im so freaking sure they fit the kitten narrative.

And no the rite of the great dwarf DID NOT WORK, its eyes opened at the end of GW1 and primordus was awake. He actively attacked settlements which we thwarted, Faolin showed up in flash backs but she just appeared out of nowhere in HoT. I like how you dont bring up Eir, or the fact that the focus on the sylvary makes no sense in base guild wars2. HoT sure make it a sylvary expansion, but to push the tree people who are just glorified elves down our throat is annoying. I dont dislike you because you criticize me I dislike how your white knighting for a company, who can defend themselves. They keep saying “soon”, and even brought up they thought about adding them in HoT. Well Im sick and tired of broken promises, and lies blatantly thrown in my face. And im Tired of people in this community being so “Too much work” or “does not fit the narrative”. Neither case is true, the narrative has been bent before so nothing is stopping it now. I know the lore, you only took two of my points and ignored the rest. I wont dial it back and I wont stop so just give up and back off.

You also forgot to even touch on the revenants and how they dont fit the narrative at all, considering rytlock is the first and in the story ONLY Rev that exists. So Rev chars are completely Non-canon based on that statement, and the snuff surrounding it.

sure. add tengu, or any other new race. i dont really care.

But ONLY if it means that other content wont be cut. New maps, new elite specs, new armor / weapon sets, new story, so content for everyone who doesnt want to play a new race.

In a perfect world that would be no problem. Unfortunatly Anet does not have infinit resources.

I’d rather they never added Tengu. Or any other race for that matter. Clipping is already an issue with Asura and Charr, I can’t even imagine how bad the clipping would be with feathery furries. A non-playable Tengu character in the story? Sure, whatever as long as it isn’t shoe-horned in. The tengu blacksmith guy worked just fine because he fit with the story at the time. If they decide to add another to the story thats cool.

Thornwolf.9721:

Well then dont update their models, dont hint and dont even bring them to any major populated area. I would appreciate the removal of them from my guild hall and would like them to be forgotten rather than showed off, and wiggled infront of us. Not yet? Not freaking yet? For real and we get kittenty mounts as a substitute because, oh yes im so freaking sure they fit the kitten narrative.

And no the rite of the great dwarf DID NOT WORK, its eyes opened at the end of GW1 and primordus was awake. He actively attacked settlements which we thwarted, Faolin showed up in flash backs but she just appeared out of nowhere in HoT. I like how you dont bring up Eir, or the fact that the focus on the sylvary makes no sense in base guild wars2. HoT sure make it a sylvary expansion, but to push the tree people who are just glorified elves down our throat is annoying. I dont dislike you because you criticize me I dislike how your white knighting for a company, who can defend themselves. They keep saying “soon”, and even brought up they thought about adding them in HoT. Well Im sick and tired of broken promises, and lies blatantly thrown in my face. And im Tired of people in this community being so “Too much work” or “does not fit the narrative”. Neither case is true, the narrative has been bent before so nothing is stopping it now. I know the lore, you only took two of my points and ignored the rest. I wont dial it back and I wont stop so just give up and back off.

You also forgot to even touch on the revenants and how they dont fit the narrative at all, considering rytlock is the first and in the story ONLY Rev that exists. So Rev chars are completely Non-canon based on that statement, and the snuff surrounding it.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Primordus
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Primordus

The Rite did succeed. The defeat of the Great Destroyer postponed Primordus’s awakening and the dwarf race underwent the Rite to turn themselves to stone so as to fight off Primordus and his armies. His minions attacking were him beginning to awaken, and were also the result of the Great Destroyer.

I did give a brief response to Eir. I stated that just because you felt it should have gone one way is completely irrelevant to how it actually went. As for Revenant, well thats a connection to the mists and it honestly seems very similar to Ritualists and their magics back from Factions. This was debated upon heavily when we started learning more about it. Anet also admitted to learning quite a bit from HoT and how they did drop the ball on a number of aspects to it, including background to Revenant much of which it seems will get some attention in PoF.

I get your frustrations when you very clearly want to be able to play a Tengu, it seems like its a very unhealthy obsession for you at this point considering how you are in general responding to criticism against it. However you really do need to just cool it down. You’re behaving like I’m being an enemy to your goal when all I’ve been doing, as I’ve said before, is pointing out the reality of the circumstances.

I’ll say it all again, I will even bold it so that you don’t quite miss it this time around.

They could add Tengu, they may even do so, and I would have no problem if they did, but they will, and should, only do it at such a time where they can dedicate enough time and resources to it. They need to be able to do it appropriate justice and give much more context and more in-depth story to them moving beyond their mass seclusion.

KryTiKaL.3125:

Thornwolf.9721:

Well then dont update their models, dont hint and dont even bring them to any major populated area. I would appreciate the removal of them from my guild hall and would like them to be forgotten rather than showed off, and wiggled infront of us. Not yet? Not freaking yet? For real and we get kittenty mounts as a substitute because, oh yes im so freaking sure they fit the kitten narrative.

And no the rite of the great dwarf DID NOT WORK, its eyes opened at the end of GW1 and primordus was awake. He actively attacked settlements which we thwarted, Faolin showed up in flash backs but she just appeared out of nowhere in HoT. I like how you dont bring up Eir, or the fact that the focus on the sylvary makes no sense in base guild wars2. HoT sure make it a sylvary expansion, but to push the tree people who are just glorified elves down our throat is annoying. I dont dislike you because you criticize me I dislike how your white knighting for a company, who can defend themselves. They keep saying “soon”, and even brought up they thought about adding them in HoT. Well Im sick and tired of broken promises, and lies blatantly thrown in my face. And im Tired of people in this community being so “Too much work” or “does not fit the narrative”. Neither case is true, the narrative has been bent before so nothing is stopping it now. I know the lore, you only took two of my points and ignored the rest. I wont dial it back and I wont stop so just give up and back off.

You also forgot to even touch on the revenants and how they dont fit the narrative at all, considering rytlock is the first and in the story ONLY Rev that exists. So Rev chars are completely Non-canon based on that statement, and the snuff surrounding it.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Primordus
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Primordus

The Rite did succeed. The defeat of the Great Destroyer postponed Primordus’s awakening and the dwarf race underwent the Rite to turn themselves to stone so as to fight off Primordus and his armies. His minions attacking were him beginning to awaken, and were also the result of the Great Destroyer.

I did give a brief response to Eir. I stated that just because you felt it should have gone one way is completely irrelevant to how it actually went. As for Revenant, well thats a connection to the mists and it honestly seems very similar to Ritualists and their magics back from Factions. This was debated upon heavily when we started learning more about it. Anet also admitted to learning quite a bit from HoT and how they did drop the ball on a number of aspects to it, including background to Revenant much of which it seems will get some attention in PoF.

I get your frustrations when you very clearly want to be able to play a Tengu, it seems like its a very unhealthy obsession for you at this point considering how you are in general responding to criticism against it. However you really do need to just cool it down. You’re behaving like I’m being an enemy to your goal when all I’ve been doing, as I’ve said before, is pointing out the reality of the circumstances.

I’ll say it all again, I will even bold it so that you don’t quite miss it this time around.

They could add Tengu, they may even do so, and I would have no problem if they did, but they will, and should, only do it at such a time where they can dedicate enough time and resources to it. They need to be able to do it appropriate justice and give much more context and more in-depth story to them moving beyond their mass seclusion.

Then as I stated REMOVE them from the game until they are implemented, if thats never then thats never. Id rather them not be here at all then be here glaring in my face, its not an obsession I just HATE all the races we have. I never liked charr, I never liked humans ,sylvary or asuran. I LOVED the norn until they watered them down and took away the things that made them cool, made them just big stupid people. I want the tengu because of these things, because even if they messed up their lore. They would still look and feel like a tengu, The immersion is not here in this game. But I get it no one seems to want it, you claim it could happen and that your not opposed. But yet blatantly give every reason why it CANT and SHOULD not happen. So fine, But I wont stop not until a dev either removes this post or bans me from the forums (ban would be suggested because I Will just go make the thread again.)

@Thornwolf.9721

Removing them would further break that immersion that you claim is “not here” when it actually most certainly is. It would not make sense to, for instance, completely remove the Tengu from the game when they have gates that lead into the Dominion of Winds. Leaving them unguarded would be irrational.

I would love to see new races, like I said Kodan would be a great addition in my opinion and if they added Tengu I’d make one. However I’m not one to have delusions about the reality of these circumstances. If or when it happens it is going to happen in an appropriate manner, not because someone got impatient and screamed and yelled until they gave them what they wanted. That honestly didn’t even happen with mounts, yes there was a bit of a call for them but nothing so extreme and they also felt that, at this point, they could do them right and having played with them I am enjoying them. I would want the Devs to give a new race that same kind of attention rather than have them repeat a number of the mistakes they made, they themselves saying they learned from their experiences with HoT, and do it wrong or rush it or not do the addition of a new race the justice it deserves. They would do that and then you would come onto these forums and complain and post and “not stop” because the Tengu would lack story, lack depth, lack context, lack a great many things.

KryTiKaL.3125:

@Thornwolf.9721

Removing them would further break that immersion that you claim is “not here” when it actually most certainly is. It would not make sense to, for instance, completely remove the Tengu from the game when they have gates that lead into the Dominion of Winds. Leaving them unguarded would be irrational.

I would love to see new races, like I said Kodan would be a great addition in my opinion and if they added Tengu I’d make one. However I’m not one to have delusions about the reality of these circumstances. If or when it happens it is going to happen in an appropriate manner, not because someone got impatient and screamed and yelled until they gave them what they wanted. That honestly didn’t even happen with mounts, yes there was a bit of a call for them but nothing so extreme and they also felt that, at this point, they could do them right and having played with them I am enjoying them. I would want the Devs to give a new race that same kind of attention rather than have them repeat a number of the mistakes they made, they themselves saying they learned from their experiences with HoT, and do it wrong or rush it or not do the addition of a new race the justice it deserves. They would do that and then you would come onto these forums and complain and post and “not stop” because the Tengu would lack story, lack depth, lack context, lack a great many things.

Im still going to keep this thread alive, so regardless I have no intention on stopping. Im not yelling, Im asking and im wanting people to post if they are for it. You dont even need to say if your against it, just dont post.

So what you want is an echo chamber, am I reading that right?

Okhu.7948:

So what you want is an echo chamber, am I reading that right?

No I just want people to say why they want a new race, not why they dont. We hear the kitten as to why people dont want it all the time, I Want this to be a place where people talk about WHY they do want one.

Thornwolf.9721:

Okhu.7948:

So what you want is an echo chamber, am I reading that right?

No I just want people to say why they want a new race, not why they dont. We hear the kitten as to why people dont want it all the time, I Want this to be a place where people talk about WHY they do want one.

We also hear reasons as to why people want playable Tengu all the time.

This is an open forum. People are free to post and respond as they wish, civilly. If you wish to censor opinions contrary to your own, I recommend you set up a private forum for that purpose.

PS: To be xenophobic, one must actually care about those foreign or strange things. I don’t.

Look, GW2 is not your game to dictate in which direction it will go or should. Yes, suggestions and criticisms help the game but you just sound like that kid in the toy store before christmas throwing a tantrum you’re not getting exactly what you want.

Tengu will be added if and when GW2 dev team along with ANET find it appropriate. People have been asking since GW1 and it will happen, maybe, maybe not.

You’re coming off super arrogant in your responses to people who are pointing out story/lore reasons, dev reasons and just anything that disagrees with you.

Thornwolf.9721:

Okhu.7948:

So what you want is an echo chamber, am I reading that right?

No I just want people to say why they want a new race, not why they dont. We hear the kitten as to why people dont want it all the time, I Want this to be a place where people talk about WHY they do want one.

As much as I desire new races and Tengu in particular, as much and as easily as I can counter arguments against those that would actively oppose the implementation of new races even if it were hypothetically confirmed, I do not think you should expect a “safe space” for only just one side of an argument.

Throughout the many “new race” threads I’ve read and commented on, few have gone beyond to discuss how certain ideas should be laid and where compromises are needed. That’s not because people throw in contrary arguments about adding races, it’s just people aren’t interested in actual discussion and no one ever wants to compromise. They prefer to argue back and forth endlessly with the same arguments I’ve countered at least a half-dozen times.

Yes, I really hope Tengu, along with Cantha, will be added!! I’d love to play as Tengu and more Canthan lored human characters....
Please ANet!!

Atleast we finally can go to Elona now..

Alga.6498:

Yes, I really hope Tengu, along with Cantha, will be added!! I’d love to play as Tengu and more Canthan lored human characters….
Please ANet!!

Atleast we finally can go to Elona now..

yeah at least there is that

Shinzan.2908:

The value of dev time needed to make a new race work would probably vastly outweigh the actual value added to the game. They’d have to do models, voice acting, story integration (backwards too), make sure all the armor works… and in return all we’d get is a bit more cosmetic variety. Would be nice if they had infinite resources, but if it’s a question of Tengu or Mounts? – I’ll pick mounts.

Tengu are cool though, I wouldn’t mind seeing them play a bigger role in the story at some point.

People keep saying this, but it’s not true. New races and new classes/specializations are two of the key features that will sell MMO expansions. WoW is a good example of this. They have added 5 new races since launch and they’ll keep adding more! And they have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay many more armor skins to adjust to fit the new races to add too!

I mean sure, Anet is not Blizzard, I know Anet is a much smaller company, but then so is GW2 a much smaller game with less armors, so adding a new race to GW2 will be less amount of work than adding a new race to WoW.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Shinzan.2908:

The value of dev time needed to make a new race work would probably vastly outweigh the actual value added to the game. They’d have to do models, voice acting, story integration (backwards too), make sure all the armor works… and in return all we’d get is a bit more cosmetic variety. Would be nice if they had infinite resources, but if it’s a question of Tengu or Mounts? – I’ll pick mounts.

Tengu are cool though, I wouldn’t mind seeing them play a bigger role in the story at some point.

People keep saying this, but it’s not true. New races and new classes/specializations are two of the key features that will sell MMO expansions. WoW is a good example of this. They have added 5 new races since launch and they’ll keep adding more! And they have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay many more armor skins to adjust to fit the new races to add too!

I mean sure, Anet is not Blizzard, I know Anet is a much smaller company, but then so is GW2 a much smaller game with less armors, so adding a new race to GW2 will be less amount of work than adding a new race to WoW.

And yet the vast majority of the population play 2 races. Humans and Blood Elf. Why because alot of armor looks distorted/horrible on other races. Pandarans have horrible armor stretching, Worgen have huge clipping issues, goblins are the lowest played race.

The most played races are the most human/humanoid races.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/276315/distribution-of-world-of-warcraft-characters-by-race/

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HXyMyYQmt6U6LA8S1ks1WXCDA8LjAmWthlSmjDmGYUU/edit#gid=927957850

Yhe tengu might have their moment, but not now. The problem is keeping everything in line and at a reasonable cost. Making the Tengu playable would be excessively expensive and not add anything to the game.

Repeatedly whinging like a spoilt brat doesn’t help.

LimeSamurai.9140:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Shinzan.2908:

The value of dev time needed to make a new race work would probably vastly outweigh the actual value added to the game. They’d have to do models, voice acting, story integration (backwards too), make sure all the armor works… and in return all we’d get is a bit more cosmetic variety. Would be nice if they had infinite resources, but if it’s a question of Tengu or Mounts? – I’ll pick mounts.

Tengu are cool though, I wouldn’t mind seeing them play a bigger role in the story at some point.

People keep saying this, but it’s not true. New races and new classes/specializations are two of the key features that will sell MMO expansions. WoW is a good example of this. They have added 5 new races since launch and they’ll keep adding more! And they have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay many more armor skins to adjust to fit the new races to add too!

I mean sure, Anet is not Blizzard, I know Anet is a much smaller company, but then so is GW2 a much smaller game with less armors, so adding a new race to GW2 will be less amount of work than adding a new race to WoW.

And yet the vast majority of the population play 2 races. Humans and Blood Elf. Why because alot of armor looks distorted/horrible on other races. Pandarans have horrible armor stretching, Worgen have huge clipping issues, goblins are the lowest played race.

The most played races are the most human/humanoid races.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/276315/distribution-of-world-of-warcraft-characters-by-race/

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HXyMyYQmt6U6LA8S1ks1WXCDA8LjAmWthlSmjDmGYUU/edit#gid=927957850

What I take away from your WoW statistics is:

• 44% of the players want to play as human-like races while 16.5% want to play as actual humans.
• At least 83% of the players wanted something to play as other than a human.
• 56% of the players want to play characters that resemble humans even less (although I don’t know much about WoW and its races so that’s partly an assumption).
• There could be a disparity if races are locked behind some sort of pay wall like an expansion which would artificially deflate numbers spread across races of the game.

For the GW2 statistics:

• 16991 humans vs 7224 norn vs 9522 sylvari 9172 asura vs 6646 charr so…49555 in total meaning…
• 34.3% of characters made are human characters.
• 68% of characters made are human-like characters while 31% of characters made are not human-like at all.
• Even though some races are human-like, still 65.7% of characters made are not human characters.
• Considering the game’s origins (GW1) and the races available then, that is still a majority of characters made that are NOT human.

Now you may be thinking it’s wrong to lump all non-humans as a single group but you’re the one who did it first. Your argument falls through because the majority of the players play non-human-like characters and for GW2, it’s because the majority of the available races are human-like and even still, few people like the Norn because of their story.

[EDITED: changed the wording on the GW2 points as the statistics are on characters made, not really player preferences.]

I really want tengu. They are in my top 3 wishlist for gw2.
I feel the lore that can be introduced, through achievements and dialogue, as well as the content from story instances add sufficient content to make tengu more than just a cosmetic addition. Tengu would bring a whole new city to explore too giving tons of options for RP’ers and revitalize old content by giving it a new perspective, if the implementation is done well.

I know it adds alot of work from armor clipping issues, but the models are already done and its just a case of reducing clipping as much as possible. Given that 1/3 of armor clips on charrs tails anyway, clipping isnt a major barrier to adding tengu for me.

The biggest and most expensive cost is obviously the voice acting for old storylines. I am unsure how to get around this problem, unless you give the tengu the same voice as another race, but that seems to defeat the purpose.

As far as narrative goes, I dont see this as an issue at all. Tengu can easily be implemented when the story proceeds to Cantha. As we have shiro already, and cantha and the tengu and mentioned tons in vanilla Gw2, its reasonable to expect that eventually we will return there.

Give Tengu 1 personal story line, which involves the player character realizing that the tengu are mistaken for cutting themselves off from the rest of the world, and leaving their city to go help the fight with zhaitan in tyria. The story can then proceed like any other race with claw island. Add a small amount of unique written dialogue with NPCs whenever the character returns to the city in the expansion (as if time has moved on, same as other maps) and there should be no consistency issues outside of what is normal in other maps in gw2.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Shinzan.2908:

The value of dev time needed to make a new race work would probably vastly outweigh the actual value added to the game. They’d have to do models, voice acting, story integration (backwards too), make sure all the armor works… and in return all we’d get is a bit more cosmetic variety. Would be nice if they had infinite resources, but if it’s a question of Tengu or Mounts? – I’ll pick mounts.

Tengu are cool though, I wouldn’t mind seeing them play a bigger role in the story at some point.

People keep saying this, but it’s not true. New races and new classes/specializations are two of the key features that will sell MMO expansions. WoW is a good example of this. They have added 5 new races since launch and they’ll keep adding more! And they have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay many more armor skins to adjust to fit the new races to add too!

I mean sure, Anet is not Blizzard, I know Anet is a much smaller company, but then so is GW2 a much smaller game with less armors, so adding a new race to GW2 will be less amount of work than adding a new race to WoW.

I agree that the allure of a new playable race, whether it be Tengu, Kodan, or… Quaggan… Shudders. Anyways, it would most likely sell copies of the containing expansion.

My question is: How many of the copies are bought solely because of the new race? Of those, is it enough to profit from the cost of including the new race?

Swagger.1459:

Tengu? Seriously? Nah… Dwarves making a comeback, and becoming a playable race, makes way more sense for the xpac.

YES!

Diak Atoli.2085:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Shinzan.2908:

The value of dev time needed to make a new race work would probably vastly outweigh the actual value added to the game. They’d have to do models, voice acting, story integration (backwards too), make sure all the armor works… and in return all we’d get is a bit more cosmetic variety. Would be nice if they had infinite resources, but if it’s a question of Tengu or Mounts? – I’ll pick mounts.

Tengu are cool though, I wouldn’t mind seeing them play a bigger role in the story at some point.

People keep saying this, but it’s not true. New races and new classes/specializations are two of the key features that will sell MMO expansions. WoW is a good example of this. They have added 5 new races since launch and they’ll keep adding more! And they have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay many more armor skins to adjust to fit the new races to add too!

I mean sure, Anet is not Blizzard, I know Anet is a much smaller company, but then so is GW2 a much smaller game with less armors, so adding a new race to GW2 will be less amount of work than adding a new race to WoW.

I agree that the allure of a new playable race, whether it be Tengu, Kodan, or… Quaggan… Shudders. Anyways, it would most likely sell copies of the containing expansion.

My question is: How many of the copies are bought solely because of the new race? Of those, is it enough to profit from the cost of including the new race?

Unless you’re only including one feature in a game/expansion worth marketing, it’s a moot question. That’d be like asking “How many sports cars are bought solely because they’re red?” to decide if the color red is profitable. The goal should always be to appeal to as many potential buyers as possible.

I’ve been wanting to play Tengu for a long time now. Hell I refuse to make a theif until I can play one, because that’s the immersion I would like for that class.

Honestly though, I would take a potion kind of like how you can play as a Kodan and I’ll be fine. Hell I would even buy it with GEMS for crying out loud.

KryTiKaL.3125:

Thornwolf.9721:

I know that I have brought this topic up again and again, but I yada yada yada…

…Maybe some day it will, maybe some day they will add Tengu as a race. Maybe they won’t. Continuously calling for it is not going to change the fact that unless it fits within the narrative of the story they are telling in the world they created then they are not going to pull a justification for it out of thin air.

When, or if, they feel it is justified and appropriate to include the Tengo as a playable race then they will. Until then…stop.

They could roll it out seperatly as a spin off of gw2. same character log in screen but load into closed off world entirely separate from Tyria. Then the narrative could be fully their own. problem solved.

Who knows maybe the tengu in all those years of a closed society has found a way to travel to other planets!

or they could inhabit other/new continets that have risen up from the sea that tyrians havent discovered yet.

who knows. Anything is possible

I dont understand why people are so hung up on the 1 -80 storyline, and the issues with just having them start as an 80. Make it so you have to have at least one level 80 on your account to make one, and call it good. They dont need to go through the zaithan storyline because to be fair the vanilla story does not matter. Most people skip it REGARDLESS, so forcing people to do it would be redundant.

Their story is where the expansion they come in is, not before and if you do go and do things before well then thats you doing optional stuff. Or they could make it that you were in the canon one of the tengu who joined the orders, as there were some in each order. AND then we also had a few join the pact and leave the dominion of winds, so there is are some possible solutions too the issue.

Their story could also take place in a ten level instance, seeing as PoF adds new features to story instances. ( hearts to complete, the area moves with you as you progress so its not just locked into a set area) This makes them having a ten level starting instance all the more likely, as I believe they would be using the new model for story instances over the old one.

Thornwolf.9721:

I dont understand why people are so hung up on the 1 -80 storyline, and the issues with just having them start as an 80. Make it so you have to have at least one level 80 on your account to make one, and call it good. They dont need to go through the zaithan storyline because to be fair the vanilla story does not matter. Most people skip it REGARDLESS, so forcing people to do it would be redundant…

If that’s the case, then a cosmetic change is all you want and a costume with sound effects is all that is needed and far easier to implement.