Guild Wars 2

If we had proper scaling a lot of our current events would serve as raids. Seems like win/win imo.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

VodCom.6924:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

End game does not necessarily equate to instanced raids for all people.

Thank you so much for saying something that should be obvious for everyone, but sadly isn’t.

Remember folks, just because WoW has it does NOT mean everyone must have the same.
Remember (bis), just because GWEN endgame was made of 8 player dungeons does not mean GW2 endgame has to be identical.

These are different games for different audiences.

Don’t get me wrong, I would not mind having something like UW or FoW come back and require like 8 (maybe 10) people

I’m pleased I got what you said right in my previous post.

As I said, GW2 does not have to include the UW.

I never said GW2 must not include the UW.

VodCom.6924:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

VodCom.6924:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

End game does not necessarily equate to instanced raids for all people.

Thank you so much for saying something that should be obvious for everyone, but sadly isn’t.

Remember folks, just because WoW has it does NOT mean everyone must have the same.
Remember (bis), just because GWEN endgame was made of 8 player dungeons does not mean GW2 endgame has to be identical.

These are different games for different audiences.

Don’t get me wrong, I would not mind having something like UW or FoW come back and require like 8 (maybe 10) people

I’m pleased I got what you said right in my previous post.

As I said, GW2 does not have to include the UW.

I never said GW2 must not include the UW.

It was just a general clarification. Some people seem to think I’m dead set against “raids,” which I’m not, necessarily.

Now, if they’re talking WoW style raids with yet more gear tiers, gear stat lock outs, etc.. oh yeah, I’m completely against that.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

It was just a general clarification. Some people seem to think I’m dead set against “raids,” which I’m not, necessarily.

Now, if they’re talking WoW style raids with yet more gear tiers, gear stat lock outs, etc.. oh yeah, I’m completely against that.

I do share your opinion on that matter.

I have prepared a nice wall of text for the upcoming CDI with precise suggestions about this (and suggestions for the endgame in general). I hope I’ll be able to post this soon.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

VodCom.6924:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

VodCom.6924:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

End game does not necessarily equate to instanced raids for all people.

Thank you so much for saying something that should be obvious for everyone, but sadly isn’t.

Remember folks, just because WoW has it does NOT mean everyone must have the same.
Remember (bis), just because GWEN endgame was made of 8 player dungeons does not mean GW2 endgame has to be identical.

These are different games for different audiences.

Don’t get me wrong, I would not mind having something like UW or FoW come back and require like 8 (maybe 10) people

I’m pleased I got what you said right in my previous post.

As I said, GW2 does not have to include the UW.

I never said GW2 must not include the UW.

It was just a general clarification. Some people seem to think I’m dead set against “raids,” which I’m not, necessarily.

Now, if they’re talking WoW style raids with yet more gear tiers, gear stat lock outs, etc.. oh yeah, I’m completely against that.

Hopefully some good will come of the CDI; I seriously doubt it though. Defining what a “raid” is will be the most difficult aspect. GW2 has obtained a large number of players that would like nothing more than to turn the game into a gear treadmill WoW clone. And since the concept of a “raid” is pretty much that exact same experience in almost any MMO; I don’t see this discussion being more than players begging for a way to exclude other players from content to make themselves feel better.

common misconceptions in this thread:
- endgame: there is no reason to make raids not regular content for a wide range of levels
- non-casual: no reason at all not to make shorter or escalating content that does not require 4 hours an evening over 8 days
- gear grind: you can add the usual rewards (yeah, abysmal, but let´s face it, this is GW2) relative to time spent. It is not natural law to put tier+x gear in raids

Yeah, yeah, and “elitism”. Funny how the self-proclaimed guardians of casualness always cling to that trope “play the way you want to” only in regards to themselves or “their” people. Good players who want teamplayers with good stats and gaming skills are denied that it seems. If you are so keen on offering raid or other instanced content for people who do not care about max/min, start the party yourself.

Algreg.3629:

Yeah, yeah, and “elitism”. Funny how the self-proclaimed guardians of casualness always cling to that trope “play the way you want to” only in regards to themselves or “their” people. Good players who want teamplayers with good stats and gaming skills are denied that it seems. If you are so keen on offering raid or other instanced content for people who do not care about max/min, start the party yourself.

I don’t care about who other people want to play with – if elitist players want to play only with other elitists, it’s perfectly okay in my book. So long, as the content they play in does not require anyone to meet up those elitist expectations.
This extends to any possible raid-like content.

I m waiting raids more than my birthay or christmass, i m not kiddin! I live this game and i ve played since bwe and a good raid system will give finally to this game everything it need! I m already wrote some ideas for this CDI will allow all players to enjoy it, and i will share it ehen the topic will be ready
status: excited!

Lian Olsam.9541:

I m waiting raids more than my birthay or christmass, i m not kiddin! I live this game and i ve played since bwe and a good raid system will give finally to this game everything it need! I m already wrote some ideas for this CDI will allow all players to enjoy it, and i will share it ehen the topic will be ready
status: excited!

“Hope is the first step on the way to despair” (cookie for you if you find the ref)

This is exactly what I fear : people getting hyped and placing too many expectations on a single word : “raid”.

Korossive.7085:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Blaeys.3102:

…And have no problems with delays getting started. Just means you’re busy working on making/keeping us happy in other areas of the game.

Hi Blaeys,

I am very much looking forward to it to and I really appreciate your last sentence. You hit the nail on the head. Thanks for your understanding.

Chris

Blaeys’s sentence is so true … for 1.5 years ago. Even end-game raiding has been suggested (now) years ago :-/

Don’t be like that. They’ve improved many areas, some of which we don’t even get to know (client performance, WvW culling, several crashes across many many many hardware configurations, etc). I ask a lot from ANet, but I do recognize their effort (and passion! SAB <3).

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Good Evening,

A couple of things.

1: The next phase of the CDI will be delayed until this weekend or Monday due lack of available time on my part.
2: whilst I am very much looking forward to the raid discussion and chatting with you all about it I do want to make it clear that this last CDI has been excellent, with maturity and collaboration throughout. So to be clear unnecessary comments about ‘True Gamers’, ‘Elitists’ and ‘Dress Up Players’ won’t be tolerated.

I just want to make this clear so we can all have a healthy discussion and design out a Raid System proposal that is born out of GW2’s core mechanics, personality and community passion.

Looking forward to having a great discussion with you all.

Chris

Will the CDI for GvG be after the raiding one?

Instanced 10-15-20 man raids could be quite nice for guilds & larger groups of friends.

It could also incorporate the commander system.

That being said any progression should rely on agony resist not other stats.

Vayne.8563:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Good Evening,

A couple of things.

1: The next phase of the CDI will be delayed until this weekend or Monday due lack of available time on my part.
2: whilst I am very much looking forward to the raid discussion and chatting with you all about it I do want to make it clear that this last CDI has been excellent, with maturity and collaboration throughout. So to be clear unnecessary comments about ‘True Gamers’, ‘Elitists’ and ‘Dress Up Players’ won’t be tolerated.

I just want to make this clear so we can all have a healthy discussion and design out a Raid System proposal that is born out of GW2’s core mechanics, personality and community passion.

Looking forward to having a great discussion with you all.

Chris

Thanks for this. I really can’t stand people judging other people as “real” gamers, or carebears because they prefer one aspect of games to others. It’s demeaning and unnecessary.

Glad to see it won’t be tolerated in the raiding thread.

I strongly believe that the respect you speak of runs both ways. There are players that want some challenging, instanced raid content, but we just get called elitists and that’s that.

I’m in TTS, and we’ve been called elitists despite our open recruiting policy. We have a few simple rules to abide by: 1) rep when you do world events with us, 2) we ask that you get on TeamSpeak for Triple Trouble because of the nature of the fight (and we always explain everything for those that are joining us who are new – TS makes this much faster and easier) and 3) be nice to people. I don’t see how these rules make us elitist, but haters gunna hate.

Bottom line: the want for challenging content does not automatically mean that we want to exclude people from content in the game.

Algreg.3629:

common misconceptions in this thread:
- endgame: there is no reason to make raids not regular content for a wide range of levels.

Truth. Think back to beginning this game. Less than level 10, exploring a swamp, and suddenly a shadowy behemoth rears up from the muck, needing everyone from miles around to come charging in … sure it’s a quick kill now, but remember how awed you were the first time you encountered it, especially if you’re one of the lucky people who hadn’t even heard of it before that moment! That’s a world boss for single-digit levels, and I’m looking forward to CDI explorations of how to tailor raid content for all levels of play.

Valento.9852:

Korossive.7085:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Blaeys.3102:

…And have no problems with delays getting started. Just means you’re busy working on making/keeping us happy in other areas of the game.

Hi Blaeys,

I am very much looking forward to it to and I really appreciate your last sentence. You hit the nail on the head. Thanks for your understanding.

Chris

Blaeys’s sentence is so true … for 1.5 years ago. Even end-game raiding has been suggested (now) years ago :-/

Don’t be like that. They’ve improved many areas, some of which we don’t even get to know (client performance, WvW culling, several crashes across many many many hardware configurations, etc). I ask a lot from ANet, but I do recognize their effort (and passion! SAB <3).

The SAB was a drop of pure talent wiped away by bad management.
Yet it hasn’t a thing to do with glacial snail dev pace (at best). We are talking about years. See link in my signature if you wish for partial notion.

Dev making yet another “let’s talk” thread after years is … entertaining. Poor player posters are having some hope kindled in them tsk tsk tsk
I don’t see raids happening before I can even salvage one —-—— ascended ring – and that wont be this upcoming year either.

No matter the levels involved, a dungeon is a dungeon is a dungeon. I want more living story, more areas to explore, more new content that is deep and developing. Not another more farm to grind.

From almost 2 years ago:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/

This game attempts to do endgame differently.
“…we’ve introduced game elements that you’d normally associate with “endgame” at every level and every possible opportunity.”
Whether you’re trying to argue for more classic endgame content or not, it could help to approach the topic from this direction, maybe addressing why you think this concept does or does not work, or how to make it work better.

By the time the meta data is analyzed, the raid material constructed and the content is released, there will be other games more interesting.
AKA Too little too late.

You guys are getting WAY too hyped up

It will just be a dungeon with 8 or 10 people instead of 5… yawn
You WILL be bored of it in two weeks after you master the encounter
We still have terrible AI mechanics and boss fights – stack and spank!

Narkodx.1472:

You guys are getting WAY too hyped up

It will just be a dungeon with 8 or 10 people instead of 5… yawn
You WILL be bored of it in two weeks after you master the encounter
We still have terrible AI mechanics and boss fights – stack and spank!

+1 for truthyness

I would be so happy if raids turned out to be more dungeons! But that’s just for selfish reasons, because I like dungeons and don’t have much interest in doing raids with larger groups of people. Dungeons are the endgame content I want! (I’d be fine with FoW/UW/Urgoz/Deep/DoA, too! Or even things like Slaver’s Exile or Sorrow’s Embrace.)

But I’d be surprised if Anet wound up adding new dungeons under a different name any time soon, because it would be a big and sudden shift for them—they’ve explicitly said that they aren’t working on new dungeons.

Anyway, to echo other people: please no gear treadmill.

SundayTrash.9562:

Morsus.5106:

SirBlunticus.4258:

I’m sorry but this game is too amazing to not have any endgame content.
Fractals and playing dress up isnt end game content.
The game was great, until I hit 80….now its boring, nothing to do.
I love crafting in any mmo, I usually horde mats and such. GW2 theres no reason to, why waste my time when all crafting is for is the nicest gear, but there is no reason to have it unless you want to run a 5-man fractal (5 MAN!?, might as well call it an expert dungeon)
There are too many games out there that have everything gw2 has and much more.
Devs need to figure out a way to keep people engaged at 80, fractals and playing barbie dress up is not it.
WE NEED RAIDS!

As long as Agony Resistance is the way you progress, I’m okay with it. I don’t want to be able to come back to Arah in Tier 76 gear and one shot all the enemies. IMO Agony Resistance is a good balance between grinding for stats and a lack of stat grind.

You only need 70 Agony resistance at 50. All u really need it a full ascended, I am sure alot of the true gamer already meet the requirement.

So? The goal wasn’t to have a gear grind. Raids themselves aren’t a bad idea, but gear grind is imo.

Essence Snow.3194:

If we had proper scaling a lot of our current events would serve as raids. Seems like win/win imo.

We do have proper scaling though, there’s a youtube video of 11 people decapping Cobalt at triple trouble floating around here somewhere.

The problem is that scaling has trouble affecting difficultly when player skill is variable. Like for example:

Let’s say you’re fighting a boss that perfectly scales to match the number of people fighting him and suddenly a player who’s less skilled then you joins the fight, Does the boss get easier or harder? Anet’s philosophy of “no player should be a hindrance” says “no it gets easier” but all that means now is that you have to zerg a boss to decrease the difficultly until it becomes mind numbly easy.

So let’s go with option 2, It gets harder, well now every time some random newbie wanders into a boss event everyone starts screaming he’s upscaling the event and the open world gets more hostile as veteran players get tired of newbies making events unnecessarily hard.

Really the only way I see fixing this issue is either designing raids for 150 people (and hey look we have 2 of them Teq and TT) or just instancing the content so that you can control who gets in and thus control the difficultly of the fight.

Donari.5237:

I’m looking forward to CDI explorations of how to tailor raid content for all levels of play.

Queensdale could quite easily have a Seraph offensive against the Centaurs, leading up to their encampment/fortress/bouncy castle and several of their leaders. Hell, we could even have the White Mantle; but they might be best saved for something higher level. Similarly, we have the Sons of Svanir, Ascalonians, Flame Legion, Nightmare Court, Mordrem, Risen, Inquest, Pirates and many more factions apparent early on – all a potential lower-levelled raid waiting to happen.

Get ‘em Chris! (Is it wrong that I think you guys should snap at us more? I mean, you guys are ppl too and I’m sure there’s been plenty of times where we’ve stepped on toes.)

“2: collaboration is king”

This is so absolutely, completely true.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

A while ago the community asked me to be more direct and that was a great suggestion. It has improved the CDI and my relationship with the community as a whole. It is also really nice to know that the community in the most part respects the right for me to communicate as a ‘human’ and the respect is absolutely reciprocated. I love our community.

This said there are some who still get angry at me for being me and as they it ‘It is what it is’

Thanks for your thoughts,

Chris

Well…..it’d probably be safe to say that 90+% of us have no use (or love) for the politically correct PR crap. Its not real, and its simply not honest. At least, that’s how I look at it.

As for those that can’t handle someone “being real”…. well, the truth hurts I guess. They’ll get over it.

Here is my idea. Each dungeon will have a “Raid” mode available upon completion of story mode and all of the explorable paths. This dungeon will have many “mini-bosses” which award a chest for a chance at exclusive materials/runes/sigils. The end of the dungeon will have substantially harder boss than what would be typically seen in explore mode. The end rewards have a 100% chance to drop exclusive materials needed to craft new “raid” set equipment. This “raid” set equipment will carry the same stats as ascended gear but will appear as purple gear in your bag. The only way to get the gear is to craft it.

FrownyClown.8402:

Here is my idea. Each dungeon will have a “Raid” mode available upon completion of story mode and all of the explorable paths. This dungeon will have many “mini-bosses” which award a chest for a chance at exclusive materials/runes/sigils. The end of the dungeon will have substantially harder boss than what would be typically seen in explore mode. The end rewards have a 100% chance to drop exclusive materials needed to craft new “raid” set equipment. This “raid” set equipment will carry the same stats as ascended gear but will appear as purple gear in your bag. The only way to get the gear is to craft it.

This sounds like hard mode, which they’ve said repeatedly that they are not going to add. (They’ve said it repeatedly because lots of people who do dungeons want it! But they’ve been consistent with this for a long time now. If you want hard mode dungeons, GW2 is not the game for you.)

Chris, need to ask something, and I know you probably do get reminded of it a lot:

Did you ever get that list of 10 things from CDIs which made it into the game? I don’t want to have to start sifting through them myself every time I hear “CDIs don’t do anything anyway”.

One Note Chord.5031:

FrownyClown.8402:

Here is my idea. Each dungeon will have a “Raid” mode available upon completion of story mode and all of the explorable paths. This dungeon will have many “mini-bosses” which award a chest for a chance at exclusive materials/runes/sigils. The end of the dungeon will have substantially harder boss than what would be typically seen in explore mode. The end rewards have a 100% chance to drop exclusive materials needed to craft new “raid” set equipment. This “raid” set equipment will carry the same stats as ascended gear but will appear as purple gear in your bag. The only way to get the gear is to craft it.

This sounds like hard mode, which they’ve said repeatedly that they are not going to add. (They’ve said it repeatedly because lots of people who do dungeons want it! But they’ve been consistent with this for a long time now. If you want hard mode dungeons, GW2 is not the game for you.)

They don’t want exclusivity which makes games competitive and fun IMO. Sometimes I want to be rewarded for my hard work and have something others don’t, not be given it.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Stormcrow.7513:

By the time the meta data is analyzed, the raid material constructed and the content is released, there will be other games more interesting.
AKA Too little too late.

Yes Storm perhaps your right. Maybe we should not discuss raiding at all or any other evolution of the game for that matter.

Or perhaps we should have a think about the impact that CDI has had across all aspects of the game in what can only be described as a swift manner in development terms.

So why am I taking the bait? Because it is an opportunity once again to make a few things clear. CDI is of a massive benefit to the team and community, but if you don’t believe that then you don’t have to be part of it. But please don’t bring others down because your thoughts differ from theirs.

And to be clear this is in reference to a number of folks posting in the thread and not just you.

Finally the CDI is a dev tool and if folks cannot respect that and find it difficult to be collaborative and valuable in this kind of design environment then they will have their oppurtunitu to be part of the initiative taken away from them. Of course they will still be allowed to give their opinion elsewhere on the forums but not in the CDI.

In the Design Dept. we have three golden rules:

1: Postive attitude toward problem solving is a key requisite of a great designer.
2: collaboration is king
3: Respect for others is paramount.

Hopefully it isn’t to much of a stretch therefore to see how I also believe these tenants to be true for the CDI.

Thanks,

Chris

….Chris, I really appreciate the CDIs. I love the way that you constantly try to ensure you are making the best game you can.

But the word is tenets and that is killing me.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Stormcrow.7513:

By the time the meta data is analyzed, the raid material constructed and the content is released, there will be other games more interesting.
AKA Too little too late.

Yes Storm perhaps your right. Maybe we should not discuss raiding at all or any other evolution of the game for that matter.

Or perhaps we should have a think about the impact that CDI has had across all aspects of the game in what can only be described as a swift manner in development terms.

So why am I taking the bait? Because it is an opportunity once again to make a few things clear. CDI is of a massive benefit to the team and community, but if you don’t believe that then you don’t have to be part of it. But please don’t bring others down because your thoughts differ from theirs.

And to be clear this is in reference to a number of folks posting in the thread and not just you.

Finally the CDI is a dev tool and if folks cannot respect that and find it difficult to be collaborative and valuable in this kind of design environment then they will have their oppurtunitu to be part of the initiative taken away from them. Of course they will still be allowed to give their opinion elsewhere on the forums but not in the CDI.

In the Design Dept. we have three golden rules:

1: Postive attitude toward problem solving is a key requisite of a great designer.
2: collaboration is king
3: Respect for others is paramount.

Hopefully it isn’t to much of a stretch therefore to see how I also believe these tenants to be true for the CDI.

Thanks,

Chris

To be fair Chris, people have been waiting for over 2 years for end game raiding content.
I am sure you can understand the apathy and frustration that people have from that long of a wait.
I love GW2, I really do. The problem is the lack of new and exciting content.
I am wholeheartedly looking forward to the CDI and raid content in general but currently, the game(for me and probably others) has become stagnant.
I would rather have better monster AI and mechanics rather than the same stack and smack zerg raids anyday.
I hope that in the end the CDI helps Anet form a plan that the user base will find fun and entertaining.

SirBlunticus.4258:

I’m sorry but this game is too amazing to not have any endgame content.
Fractals and playing dress up isnt end game content.
The game was great, until I hit 80….now its boring, nothing to do.
I love crafting in any mmo, I usually horde mats and such. GW2 theres no reason to, why waste my time when all crafting is for is the nicest gear, but there is no reason to have it unless you want to run a 5-man fractal (5 MAN!?, might as well call it an expert dungeon)
There are too many games out there that have everything gw2 has and much more.
Devs need to figure out a way to keep people engaged at 80, fractals and playing barbie dress up is not it.
WE NEED RAIDS!

There already are raids like triple wurm, tequatl, jormag etc.

But yeah there’s no 20 man dungeons, although I think that would be fun. But not 20 man, more like 10 man or 15 man, that’s enough or it stops feeling like a dungeon.

I really, really hope we will get to see Underworld in GW2 some day.

FrownyClown.8402:

One Note Chord.5031:

FrownyClown.8402:

Here is my idea. Each dungeon will have a “Raid” mode available upon completion of story mode and all of the explorable paths. This dungeon will have many “mini-bosses” which award a chest for a chance at exclusive materials/runes/sigils. The end of the dungeon will have substantially harder boss than what would be typically seen in explore mode. The end rewards have a 100% chance to drop exclusive materials needed to craft new “raid” set equipment. This “raid” set equipment will carry the same stats as ascended gear but will appear as purple gear in your bag. The only way to get the gear is to craft it.

This sounds like hard mode, which they’ve said repeatedly that they are not going to add. (They’ve said it repeatedly because lots of people who do dungeons want it! But they’ve been consistent with this for a long time now. If you want hard mode dungeons, GW2 is not the game for you.)

They don’t want exclusivity which makes games competitive and fun IMO. Sometimes I want to be rewarded for my hard work and have something others don’t, not be given it.

Well, the actual reason Colin gave for not adding hard mode is that it fractures the playerbase—you split up the people who do hard mode dungeons from the people who don’t. I don’t fully understand this justification, because in the next sentence, Colin said that the goal was instead to have some dungeons that are harder than others, so that the people who want more of a challenge just do the harder dungeons. That seems to me to fracture the playerbase the same way, into the people who do the harder dungeons and the people who don’t. But at any rate, that’s the thought behind no hard mode.

Don’t get me wrong: I’d definitely also like to see hard mode, and honestly I’d even be happy if all it came with were scaled up rewards! New skins would be a bonus, but unlikely—Anet have said that new art is at a premium in the company, and so these days new skins are mostly reserved for things that involve a large portion of the playerbase.

I’m just saying that I think your energy would probably be better spent proposing something other than something like hard mode dungeons, because Anet have been consistently opposed to them. (I don’t know if they’ve talked about this even more recently, but I know they mentioned it in that interview when they said there were no plans to add new dungeons.)

One Note Chord.5031:

FrownyClown.8402:

One Note Chord.5031:

FrownyClown.8402:

Here is my idea. Each dungeon will have a “Raid” mode available upon completion of story mode and all of the explorable paths. This dungeon will have many “mini-bosses” which award a chest for a chance at exclusive materials/runes/sigils. The end of the dungeon will have substantially harder boss than what would be typically seen in explore mode. The end rewards have a 100% chance to drop exclusive materials needed to craft new “raid” set equipment. This “raid” set equipment will carry the same stats as ascended gear but will appear as purple gear in your bag. The only way to get the gear is to craft it.

This sounds like hard mode, which they’ve said repeatedly that they are not going to add. (They’ve said it repeatedly because lots of people who do dungeons want it! But they’ve been consistent with this for a long time now. If you want hard mode dungeons, GW2 is not the game for you.)

They don’t want exclusivity which makes games competitive and fun IMO. Sometimes I want to be rewarded for my hard work and have something others don’t, not be given it.

Well, the actual reason Colin gave for not adding hard mode is that it fractures the playerbase—you split up the people who do hard mode dungeons from the people who don’t. I don’t fully understand this justification, because in the next sentence, Colin said that the goal was instead to have some dungeons that are harder than others, so that the people who want more of a challenge just do the harder dungeons. That seems to me to fracture the playerbase the same way, into the people who do the harder dungeons and the people who don’t. But at any rate, that’s the thought behind no hard mode.

Don’t get me wrong: I’d definitely also like to see hard mode, and honestly I’d even be happy if all it came with were scaled up rewards! New skins would be a bonus, but unlikely—Anet have said that new art is at a premium in the company, and so these days new skins are mostly reserved for things that involve a large portion of the playerbase.

I’m just saying that I think your energy would probably be better spent proposing something other than something like hard mode dungeons, because Anet have been consistently opposed to them. (I don’t know if they’ve talked about this even more recently, but I know they mentioned it in that interview when they said there were no plans to add new dungeons.)

I see where you are coming from, but if raids are not instance-based then how will they be any different from Tequatl? You also have to consider players not in the raid giving unwanted help. I suppose they could make each zone similar to an instance and allow only players within the raid to join that zone. I suppose if it was implemented this way they would have to change the party structure a bit and somehow be able to prioritize heals or buffs with only a 5-person cap. Or wait until 15 slots are filled in a queue and then once inside figure out how to divide up parties.

Shpongle.6025:

SirBlunticus.4258:

I’m sorry but this game is too amazing to not have any endgame content.
Fractals and playing dress up isnt end game content.
The game was great, until I hit 80….now its boring, nothing to do.
I love crafting in any mmo, I usually horde mats and such. GW2 theres no reason to, why waste my time when all crafting is for is the nicest gear, but there is no reason to have it unless you want to run a 5-man fractal (5 MAN!?, might as well call it an expert dungeon)
There are too many games out there that have everything gw2 has and much more.
Devs need to figure out a way to keep people engaged at 80, fractals and playing barbie dress up is not it.
WE NEED RAIDS!

There already are raids like triple wurm, tequatl, jormag etc.

But yeah there’s no 20 man dungeons, although I think that would be fun. But not 20 man, more like 10 man or 15 man, that’s enough or it stops feeling like a dungeon.

I really, really hope we will get to see Underworld in GW2 some day.

I am terribly sorry sir but these examples are perfect for my original post. How are these considered raids??? They are more like dynamic events or something. Not a raid, no way. I tried teq once….made it all the way to the end….didn’t know mechanics or anything for that matter and it was simple. What raid have you ever played where its that easy. Raids are supposed to punish you for not knowing mechanics, be tough for people who want it easy.
These so called “raids” are not even close…go play RIFT and they have these events all day long! (tougher than teq though mind you which if I’m not mistaken is once a day)
If you like these type of “EVENTS” go play rift…you will be satisfied.

There are no raids in GW2 sorry folks. If you think there is go play an mmo with “real” raids. Then tell me how simple teq or your GW2 (raids…lol) are.
I just don’t understand I guess…lmao

SirBlunticus.4258:

Shpongle.6025:

SirBlunticus.4258:

I’m sorry but this game is too amazing to not have any endgame content.
Fractals and playing dress up isnt end game content.
The game was great, until I hit 80….now its boring, nothing to do.
I love crafting in any mmo, I usually horde mats and such. GW2 theres no reason to, why waste my time when all crafting is for is the nicest gear, but there is no reason to have it unless you want to run a 5-man fractal (5 MAN!?, might as well call it an expert dungeon)
There are too many games out there that have everything gw2 has and much more.
Devs need to figure out a way to keep people engaged at 80, fractals and playing barbie dress up is not it.
WE NEED RAIDS!

There already are raids like triple wurm, tequatl, jormag etc.

But yeah there’s no 20 man dungeons, although I think that would be fun. But not 20 man, more like 10 man or 15 man, that’s enough or it stops feeling like a dungeon.

I really, really hope we will get to see Underworld in GW2 some day.

I am terribly sorry sir but these examples are perfect for my original post. How are these considered raids??? They are more like dynamic events or something. Not a raid, no way. I tried teq once….made it all the way to the end….didn’t know mechanics or anything for that matter and it was simple. What raid have you ever played where its that easy. Raids are supposed to punish you for not knowing mechanics, be tough for people who want it easy.
These so called “raids” are not even close…go play RIFT and they have these events all day long! (tougher than teq though mind you which if I’m not mistaken is once a day)
If you like these type of “EVENTS” go play rift…you will be satisfied.

There are no raids in GW2 sorry folks. If you think there is go play an mmo with “real” raids. Then tell me how simple teq or your GW2 (raids…lol) are.
I just don’t understand I guess…lmao

Raids like you have in other MMOs were historically not what Anet wanted end game content to be in GW2. Maybe that has changed, and maybe we’ll see raids in the traditional sense in GW2. But historically, that was not the plan: if you wanted a game that ended in traditional raids, GW2 simply wasn’t the game for you.

SirBlunticus.4258:

Shpongle.6025:

SirBlunticus.4258:

I’m sorry but this game is too amazing to not have any endgame content.
Fractals and playing dress up isnt end game content.
The game was great, until I hit 80….now its boring, nothing to do.
I love crafting in any mmo, I usually horde mats and such. GW2 theres no reason to, why waste my time when all crafting is for is the nicest gear, but there is no reason to have it unless you want to run a 5-man fractal (5 MAN!?, might as well call it an expert dungeon)
There are too many games out there that have everything gw2 has and much more.
Devs need to figure out a way to keep people engaged at 80, fractals and playing barbie dress up is not it.
WE NEED RAIDS!

There already are raids like triple wurm, tequatl, jormag etc.

But yeah there’s no 20 man dungeons, although I think that would be fun. But not 20 man, more like 10 man or 15 man, that’s enough or it stops feeling like a dungeon.

I really, really hope we will get to see Underworld in GW2 some day.

I am terribly sorry sir but these examples are perfect for my original post. How are these considered raids??? They are more like dynamic events or something. Not a raid, no way. I tried teq once….made it all the way to the end….didn’t know mechanics or anything for that matter and it was simple. What raid have you ever played where its that easy. Raids are supposed to punish you for not knowing mechanics, be tough for people who want it easy.
These so called “raids” are not even close…go play RIFT and they have these events all day long! (tougher than teq though mind you which if I’m not mistaken is once a day)
If you like these type of “EVENTS” go play rift…you will be satisfied.

There are no raids in GW2 sorry folks. If you think there is go play an mmo with “real” raids. Then tell me how simple teq or your GW2 (raids…lol) are.
I just don’t understand I guess…lmao

Perhaps you should take your own advice…. and go play Rift instead. There are a lot of other games that offer precisely what you want.

However, I don’t think anet wants to be “just like everyone else.” If they did, GW2 would not be what it is currently. We’d have traditional static quests. A heck of a lot more gear treadmill. And things like Teq would be instanced.

Some of us do consider Teq and Wurm to be “raid like” in their requirements. If you don’t have people that know how to do the assorted part of Teq you will fail. I’ve seen it fail more times than not due to lack of understanding and coordination. Wurm, well I’ve never seen Wurm succeed, but admittedly I don’t do it often.

Unless Anet has changed their stance on desiring to add more instances (and Chris can correct me if I’m wrong), I think we’d be more likely to see more open world raids like Teq and Wurm, than something like WoW’s 40 man heroics. I honestly don’t think there is a place for that type of raid (40 man heroic) in GW2, although elite ‘zones’ like from GW1 would fit quite nicely.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Or perhaps we should have a think about the impact that CDI has had across all aspects of the game in what can only be described as a swift manner in development terms.

One thing that might help (and maybe this has been made clearer in recent CDIs; I haven’t followed them very much!) is making explicit that players should not expect anything to change on the basis of a CDI. With raids I think that’s especially important to make clear—I suspect that otherwise, a lot of people will think that the CDI means that raids will eventually be coming to GW2.

(I can only speak about the fractal CDI, because it was the only one I was in a position to contribute to. But we’ve seen very little change as a result of that CDI. Dredge got fixed, and that was great, but nothing else changed substantially (ascended drop rates were tweaked, but that wasn’t substantial). And I’m not complaining, I promise—I understand that Anet has limited resources, and fractals/dungeons are a low priority, whether there’s a CDI about them or not. I just think it’d be good to make this clear at the start, because otherwise people will jump from, for example, “Chris is talking to us about reworking fractal rewards” to “fractal rewards will be reworked!”)

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

However, I don’t think anet wants to be “just like everyone else.” If they did, GW2 would not be what it is currently. We’d have traditional static quests. A heck of a lot more gear treadmill. And things like Teq would be instanced.

Some of us do consider Teq and Wurm to be “raid like” in their requirements. If you don’t have people that know how to do the assorted part of Teq you will fail. I’ve seen it fail more times than not due to lack of understanding and coordination. Wurm, well I’ve never seen Wurm succeed, but admittedly I don’t do it often.

Unless Anet has changed their stance on desiring to add more instances (and Chris can correct me if I’m wrong), I think we’d be more likely to see more open world raids like Teq and Wurm, than something like WoW’s 40 man heroics. I honestly don’t think there is a place for that type of raid (40 man heroic) in GW2, although elite ‘zones’ like from GW1 would fit quite nicely.

interesting. so perhaps like a map capped lower maybe at 30-40 that feels “open world” but runs a single (or 2 parallel) longer more difficult meta event chain? like some kind of assault preparation defense followed by an assault on some “fortress” itself

RSLongK.8961:

Open world raids yeah, instanced no. instanced raids are in all other games out there.

Which is exactly why this game should have it.

That Guy.5704:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

However, I don’t think anet wants to be “just like everyone else.” If they did, GW2 would not be what it is currently. We’d have traditional static quests. A heck of a lot more gear treadmill. And things like Teq would be instanced.

Some of us do consider Teq and Wurm to be “raid like” in their requirements. If you don’t have people that know how to do the assorted part of Teq you will fail. I’ve seen it fail more times than not due to lack of understanding and coordination. Wurm, well I’ve never seen Wurm succeed, but admittedly I don’t do it often.

Unless Anet has changed their stance on desiring to add more instances (and Chris can correct me if I’m wrong), I think we’d be more likely to see more open world raids like Teq and Wurm, than something like WoW’s 40 man heroics. I honestly don’t think there is a place for that type of raid (40 man heroic) in GW2, although elite ‘zones’ like from GW1 would fit quite nicely.

interesting. so perhaps like a map capped lower maybe at 30-40 that feels “open world” but runs a single (or 2 parallel) longer more difficult meta event chain? like some kind of assault preparation defense followed by an assault on some “fortress” itself

Was thinking more along the lines of like a dozen people tops, and I shudder at even that many. Same general concept as ‘elite’ areas of GW – UW, DoA, etc. Although thinking about what those areas might be like with meta events rather than just static quests could make for some interesting game play. Maybe.

I’d like to see them revamp Shatterer and Jormag (and add one for Mordi) with Teq level coordination. (keep in mind, this is coming from someone that is typically in the event that fails)

SirBlunticus.4258:

Shpongle.6025:

SirBlunticus.4258:

I’m sorry but this game is too amazing to not have any endgame content.
Fractals and playing dress up isnt end game content.
The game was great, until I hit 80….now its boring, nothing to do.
I love crafting in any mmo, I usually horde mats and such. GW2 theres no reason to, why waste my time when all crafting is for is the nicest gear, but there is no reason to have it unless you want to run a 5-man fractal (5 MAN!?, might as well call it an expert dungeon)
There are too many games out there that have everything gw2 has and much more.
Devs need to figure out a way to keep people engaged at 80, fractals and playing barbie dress up is not it.
WE NEED RAIDS!

There already are raids like triple wurm, tequatl, jormag etc.

But yeah there’s no 20 man dungeons, although I think that would be fun. But not 20 man, more like 10 man or 15 man, that’s enough or it stops feeling like a dungeon.

I really, really hope we will get to see Underworld in GW2 some day.

I am terribly sorry sir but these examples are perfect for my original post. How are these considered raids??? They are more like dynamic events or something. Not a raid, no way. I tried teq once….made it all the way to the end….didn’t know mechanics or anything for that matter and it was simple. What raid have you ever played where its that easy. Raids are supposed to punish you for not knowing mechanics, be tough for people who want it easy.
These so called “raids” are not even close…go play RIFT and they have these events all day long! (tougher than teq though mind you which if I’m not mistaken is once a day)
If you like these type of “EVENTS” go play rift…you will be satisfied.

There are no raids in GW2 sorry folks. If you think there is go play an mmo with “real” raids. Then tell me how simple teq or your GW2 (raids…lol) are.
I just don’t understand I guess…lmao

Having players go to other games to get the experiences they want means less money and fun for GW2. People aren’t clamoring for a gear treadmill, they’re clamoring for content that requires more than 5 players and a some degree of coordination. That’s in no way against GW2’s egalitarian philosophy.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

That Guy.5704:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

However, I don’t think anet wants to be “just like everyone else.” If they did, GW2 would not be what it is currently. We’d have traditional static quests. A heck of a lot more gear treadmill. And things like Teq would be instanced.

Some of us do consider Teq and Wurm to be “raid like” in their requirements. If you don’t have people that know how to do the assorted part of Teq you will fail. I’ve seen it fail more times than not due to lack of understanding and coordination. Wurm, well I’ve never seen Wurm succeed, but admittedly I don’t do it often.

Unless Anet has changed their stance on desiring to add more instances (and Chris can correct me if I’m wrong), I think we’d be more likely to see more open world raids like Teq and Wurm, than something like WoW’s 40 man heroics. I honestly don’t think there is a place for that type of raid (40 man heroic) in GW2, although elite ‘zones’ like from GW1 would fit quite nicely.

interesting. so perhaps like a map capped lower maybe at 30-40 that feels “open world” but runs a single (or 2 parallel) longer more difficult meta event chain? like some kind of assault preparation defense followed by an assault on some “fortress” itself

Was thinking more along the lines of like a dozen people tops, and I shudder at even that many. Same general concept as ‘elite’ areas of GW – UW, DoA, etc. Although thinking about what those areas might be like with meta events rather than just static quests could make for some interesting game play. Maybe.

I’d like to see them revamp Shatterer and Jormag (and add one for Mordi) with Teq level coordination. (keep in mind, this is coming from someone that is typically in the event that fails)

well they need not all be of the same scale or same design. There are single coordinated battles like teq or wurm or coordinated progression like I described. Another thing that could make tough event chains maps different is that it would be like an open world map in that it would be “hot join” essentially just like any other map OR with the mega server map creation/deletion system, they could add the ability to password gate a particular instance so that a guild could limit entry to their guild only.

One could be a “behind enemy lines” type map. upon starting the event chain, the 8-10 people in the map can be ported into specific areas inside an enemy city or camp they have to find each other and work their way out. would be fewer people and a different mechanic

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I’d like to see them revamp Shatterer

im just waiting for them to teach shatterer to turn right and not put it in that patch notes [insert evil laugh]

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SirBlunticus.4258:

Shpongle.6025:

SirBlunticus.4258:

I’m sorry but this game is too amazing to not have any endgame content.
Fractals and playing dress up isnt end game content.
The game was great, until I hit 80….now its boring, nothing to do.
I love crafting in any mmo, I usually horde mats and such. GW2 theres no reason to, why waste my time when all crafting is for is the nicest gear, but there is no reason to have it unless you want to run a 5-man fractal (5 MAN!?, might as well call it an expert dungeon)
There are too many games out there that have everything gw2 has and much more.
Devs need to figure out a way to keep people engaged at 80, fractals and playing barbie dress up is not it.
WE NEED RAIDS!

There already are raids like triple wurm, tequatl, jormag etc.

But yeah there’s no 20 man dungeons, although I think that would be fun. But not 20 man, more like 10 man or 15 man, that’s enough or it stops feeling like a dungeon.

I really, really hope we will get to see Underworld in GW2 some day.

I am terribly sorry sir but these examples are perfect for my original post. How are these considered raids??? They are more like dynamic events or something. Not a raid, no way. I tried teq once….made it all the way to the end….didn’t know mechanics or anything for that matter and it was simple. What raid have you ever played where its that easy. Raids are supposed to punish you for not knowing mechanics, be tough for people who want it easy.
These so called “raids” are not even close…go play RIFT and they have these events all day long! (tougher than teq though mind you which if I’m not mistaken is once a day)
If you like these type of “EVENTS” go play rift…you will be satisfied.

There are no raids in GW2 sorry folks. If you think there is go play an mmo with “real” raids. Then tell me how simple teq or your GW2 (raids…lol) are.
I just don’t understand I guess…lmao

Perhaps you should take your own advice…. and go play Rift instead. There are a lot of other games that offer precisely what you want.

However, I don’t think anet wants to be “just like everyone else.” If they did, GW2 would not be what it is currently. We’d have traditional static quests. A heck of a lot more gear treadmill. And things like Teq would be instanced.

Some of us do consider Teq and Wurm to be “raid like” in their requirements. If you don’t have people that know how to do the assorted part of Teq you will fail. I’ve seen it fail more times than not due to lack of understanding and coordination. Wurm, well I’ve never seen Wurm succeed, but admittedly I don’t do it often.

Unless Anet has changed their stance on desiring to add more instances (and Chris can correct me if I’m wrong), I think we’d be more likely to see more open world raids like Teq and Wurm, than something like WoW’s 40 man heroics. I honestly don’t think there is a place for that type of raid (40 man heroic) in GW2, although elite ‘zones’ like from GW1 would fit quite nicely.

open world events arent raids and will never be.
they dont need a “raid cdi” or raid content designer for open world stuff because they can create that kind of content already.
and tbh i dont understand why some people call everything in gw2 raid?!

wvw = raid
cursed shore 11111 = raid
dynamic events = raid
world bosses = raid
living story = raid

in gw2 everything is a raid because some people dont know what a raid looks like.

a raid isnt “jump in, zerg it down, get the reward”
a raid needs planning, an organized and coordinated group of players, skilled players, tactics and lots of other stuff that would be just too complex for open world events.
it should take top guilds weeks to kill a boss for the first time. not a few hours or 3 days.