Guild Wars 2

SundayTrash.9562:

Kartel.2561:

I dislike raids. It just breeds a hostile elitist community around it (not even counting the power-creeping gear treadmill which hopefully wouldn’t happen here, but I don’t believe they’ve ruled that out). And what for? So you can grind the same static thing over and over?

I really don’t see the appeal. Sure the first few times it can be awesome if it’s good content. But after you’ve mastered it (and expect everyone else too as well) ..how does that not get stale?

We should be pushing more more player-driven sandbox content. That’s way more dynamic with way more longevity. Give us more things we can do in the world. More ways to work together or against each other. More ways to “make our mark” in the world, personally, and as a guild. Grinding a bunch of instanced static encounters 100x couldn’t possibly sound less interesting. And the community it breeds is just another strike against it.

What, u want more escort, def, guard, protect dynamic event. The game can’t keep on cathering to casual player. Hardcore player would get bored and leave.

The most recent game that was made for the “hardcore audience”(Wild Star) flopped like no other in the history, Anet should take it as clear sign and just ignore this crowd.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SirBlunticus.4258:

Shpongle.6025:

SirBlunticus.4258:

I’m sorry but this game is too amazing to not have any endgame content.
Fractals and playing dress up isnt end game content.
The game was great, until I hit 80….now its boring, nothing to do.
I love crafting in any mmo, I usually horde mats and such. GW2 theres no reason to, why waste my time when all crafting is for is the nicest gear, but there is no reason to have it unless you want to run a 5-man fractal (5 MAN!?, might as well call it an expert dungeon)
There are too many games out there that have everything gw2 has and much more.
Devs need to figure out a way to keep people engaged at 80, fractals and playing barbie dress up is not it.
WE NEED RAIDS!

There already are raids like triple wurm, tequatl, jormag etc.

But yeah there’s no 20 man dungeons, although I think that would be fun. But not 20 man, more like 10 man or 15 man, that’s enough or it stops feeling like a dungeon.

I really, really hope we will get to see Underworld in GW2 some day.

I am terribly sorry sir but these examples are perfect for my original post. How are these considered raids??? They are more like dynamic events or something. Not a raid, no way. I tried teq once….made it all the way to the end….didn’t know mechanics or anything for that matter and it was simple. What raid have you ever played where its that easy. Raids are supposed to punish you for not knowing mechanics, be tough for people who want it easy.
These so called “raids” are not even close…go play RIFT and they have these events all day long! (tougher than teq though mind you which if I’m not mistaken is once a day)
If you like these type of “EVENTS” go play rift…you will be satisfied.

There are no raids in GW2 sorry folks. If you think there is go play an mmo with “real” raids. Then tell me how simple teq or your GW2 (raids…lol) are.
I just don’t understand I guess…lmao

Perhaps you should take your own advice…. and go play Rift instead. There are a lot of other games that offer precisely what you want.

However, I don’t think anet wants to be “just like everyone else.” If they did, GW2 would not be what it is currently. We’d have traditional static quests. A heck of a lot more gear treadmill. And things like Teq would be instanced.

Some of us do consider Teq and Wurm to be “raid like” in their requirements. If you don’t have people that know how to do the assorted part of Teq you will fail. I’ve seen it fail more times than not due to lack of understanding and coordination. Wurm, well I’ve never seen Wurm succeed, but admittedly I don’t do it often.

Unless Anet has changed their stance on desiring to add more instances (and Chris can correct me if I’m wrong), I think we’d be more likely to see more open world raids like Teq and Wurm, than something like WoW’s 40 man heroics. I honestly don’t think there is a place for that type of raid (40 man heroic) in GW2, although elite ‘zones’ like from GW1 would fit quite nicely.

I actually do play rift, that’s why I can make the comparison. Like I said at the beginning, this game is amazing in its own way. I just wish they’d add more demanding end game content. Imagine having to know your spec (I love having to switch stances to accommodate different targets.) but if gw2 had (instances that require 10 or more…lol) with mobs that require cc or interrupts (making people have know all the moves they have)
Having to dodge and switch stances for different situations. OMG no game really has that….. they have all the parts to probably the most amazing raiding in history.
Make it demanding and people will flock to this game. I know it and so do you.
Keep everything… the leveling was great (not so linear on the quests for me was a new take at first I was confused but after figuring it all out I have to say was pretty darn impressive…. although I think you level way too fast with all the gathering and pvp combined), the story line superb, once I figured out the “discovery” for crafting I loved it (You’d still have everything the casuals want). Once I hit 80 I fell asleep.
Developers – you have started a new way to play mmo’s. Now finish it! I’m telling you people will LOVE IT!

Swag.5364:

SundayTrash.9562:

Kartel.2561:

I dislike raids. It just breeds a hostile elitist community around it (not even counting the power-creeping gear treadmill which hopefully wouldn’t happen here, but I don’t believe they’ve ruled that out). And what for? So you can grind the same static thing over and over?

I really don’t see the appeal. Sure the first few times it can be awesome if it’s good content. But after you’ve mastered it (and expect everyone else too as well) ..how does that not get stale?

We should be pushing more more player-driven sandbox content. That’s way more dynamic with way more longevity. Give us more things we can do in the world. More ways to work together or against each other. More ways to “make our mark” in the world, personally, and as a guild. Grinding a bunch of instanced static encounters 100x couldn’t possibly sound less interesting. And the community it breeds is just another strike against it.

What, u want more escort, def, guard, protect dynamic event. The game can’t keep on cathering to casual player. Hardcore player would get bored and leave.

The most recent game that was made for the “hardcore audience”(Wild Star) flopped like no other in the history, Anet should take it as clear sign and just ignore this crowd.

do you have any idea at all why most people left wildstar ?
if i were you i wouldnt talk like that if i dont know the real reasons.
people didnt leave the game because of the hardcore content. they left the game because of bad design decisions outside of the raids.
people have always praised timetravel, his team and the raiding content, even when they were quitting the game.

as long as people keep playing wildstar it didnt flopp. just saying. and carbine said from the beginning they dont need millions of players.

and if every game developer ignored the hardcore crowd you wouldnt be playing gw2 today. because its the hardcore crowd who made gaming popular after all.

I guess no one understands what I’m saying…. ADD in game content. In no way am I saying TAKE AWAY what guild wars 2 is. I like the questing, the events that happen. I believe there should be more of it, some tougher but more rewarding. Keep everything…just add some things for a different crowd then literally EVERYTHING is covered. (everyone has their flavor basically)
No matter how you slice it MMO’S ARE REPETITIVE, is this not so?

Oh my god NO, no instanced raids. I been raiding in mmo’s for so long and got out of it and are so happy with GW2. I am still raiding, but in wvw as it should be because GW2 is a pvp-game with pve content hence the name GUILDWARS-.
Please do not make pve-raids. More world content and maybe even harder content, is highly appreciated, but raiding you can do in any other mmo-game, we don’t need it here, we have endgame already. WvW is endgame.

The stress of raids, of gear grind, or keeping buffs up, having dedicated healers, tanks, counting every little dps you put out there and to grind reputation just to get 5 dps/hps more it is just not what i want with this game and also the reason why i choose this when i quit Rift, the most grinding, elitist (and yes i was in top tier of raiding) money hungry game i ever been in and i was there for 3 years. Never again!

Leaa.2943:

Oh my god NO, no instanced raids. I been raiding in mmo’s for so long and got out of it and are so happy with GW2. I am still raiding, but in wvw as it should be because GW2 is a pvp-game with pve content hence the name GUILDWARS-.
Please do not make pve-raids. More world content and maybe even harder content, is highly appreciated, but raiding you can do in any other mmo-game, we don’t need it here, we have endgame already. WvW is endgame.

The stress of raids, of gear grind, or keeping buffs up, having dedicated healers, tanks, counting every little dps you put out there and to grind reputation just to get 5 dps/hps more it is just not what i want with this game and also the reason why i choose this when i quit Rift, the most grinding, elitist (and yes i was in top tier of raiding) money hungry game i ever been in and i was there for 3 years. Never again!

people like you are the reason why gw2 has become so stale and boring

mind explaining what
-gear grind
-having dedicated healers and tanks (trinity)
-grinding reputation
has to do with raids?

i do hope the mods will do a good job and keep the raid cdi clean from the anti-raid faction

i agree with notrigger posts
i really doesent understood why some ppl are scared about instanced raid… one of the best things of gw2 is you aren’t forced to do anything u want… i dont like www i will dont play it, i will enjoy other stuff.. if someone dont like fractal, agony and ascended grind stuff he can avoid it and enjoy all the rest of the game, if u dont like dungeon u can still play pve etc etc

gw2 key is dont force anyone to do anything, so if some players dont like raid just keep calm and play your favourite open zerg…

CDI and devs work should be make this game much complete as possible to make happy all kind of players, and i also have idea for make happy casual players and hardcore players but i will explain my ideas during the CDI, here is not the right place

Lian Olsam.9541:

i agree with notrigger posts
i really doesent understood why some ppl are scared about instanced raid… one of the best things of gw2 is you aren’t forced to do anything u want… i dont like www i will dont play it, i will enjoy other stuff.. if someone dont like fractal, agony and ascended grind stuff he can avoid it and enjoy all the rest of the game, if u dont like dungeon u can still play pve etc etc

gw2 key is dont force anyone to do anything, so if some players dont like raid just keep calm and play your favourite open zerg…

CDI and devs work should be make this game much complete as possible to make happy all kind of players, and i also have idea for make happy casual players and hardcore players but i will explain my ideas during the CDI, here is not the right place

Finally, someone who understands what I’m saying. This game would have EVERYTHING FOR ALL if they added a few small things.

Lian Olsam.9541:

i agree with notrigger posts
i really doesent understood why some ppl are scared about instanced raid… one of the best things of gw2 is you aren’t forced to do anything u want… i dont like www i will dont play it, i will enjoy other stuff.. if someone dont like fractal, agony and ascended grind stuff he can avoid it and enjoy all the rest of the game, if u dont like dungeon u can still play pve etc etc

gw2 key is dont force anyone to do anything, so if some players dont like raid just keep calm and play your favourite open zerg…

CDI and devs work should be make this game much complete as possible to make happy all kind of players, and i also have idea for make happy casual players and hardcore players but i will explain my ideas during the CDI, here is not the right place

GW2 was promoted as the Anti-MMO, an MMO where people can get away from the kinds of things you and notrigger are wanting. So much for the grand experiment. Seems like you just want rehashed generic MMO version 35.

NoTrigger.8396:

Leaa.2943:

Oh my god NO, no instanced raids. I been raiding in mmo’s for so long and got out of it and are so happy with GW2. I am still raiding, but in wvw as it should be because GW2 is a pvp-game with pve content hence the name GUILDWARS-.
Please do not make pve-raids. More world content and maybe even harder content, is highly appreciated, but raiding you can do in any other mmo-game, we don’t need it here, we have endgame already. WvW is endgame.

The stress of raids, of gear grind, or keeping buffs up, having dedicated healers, tanks, counting every little dps you put out there and to grind reputation just to get 5 dps/hps more it is just not what i want with this game and also the reason why i choose this when i quit Rift, the most grinding, elitist (and yes i was in top tier of raiding) money hungry game i ever been in and i was there for 3 years. Never again!

people like you are the reason why gw2 has become so stale and boring

mind explaining what
-gear grind
-having dedicated healers and tanks (trinity)
-grinding reputation
has to do with raids?

i do hope the mods will do a good job and keep the raid cdi clean from the anti-raid faction

If you have raided in other games then i should not have to explain anything of what you asked about and frankly that answer makes me wonder if you are talking about raids, or world events such as the trippletrouble and teqatl.
Because those world events are not raids, those are events, and i don’t mind at all if we get more of those. I would love if they added the scarlet boss fights both the one from Lornars pass and on scarlets drillship as world events.
But raid instances demands a total different type of gameplay and then you need to add those things mentioned and that i simply do not want.

Also all other pve-raiding game do not add special for pvp-players. As for example. Rift had pvp, it was ok for the first year, after that i turned in to total kitten and never got back on track and today it is a joke. Noone expect them to add something just as special as they do with raidinstances a few times a year, because it is a pve-raid-game. If you want pvp you turn to a pvp-game with pvp-endgame. This is what GW2 offers. And on top of that, they also have pve-content. You can not simply satisfie all players wills in one game, it is not possible to keep the high standard up in every aspect of the game. And that is why rift and wow and several other game have rather ok pve-raids, but not that awsome pvp-content. GW2 is the other way around, good pvp-content and not that overwhelming pve-content. If you want raids, then there is several games to choose from. Don’t make GW2 something it was never meant to be.

EgonVenkman.1907:

Lian Olsam.9541:

i agree with notrigger posts
i really doesent understood why some ppl are scared about instanced raid… one of the best things of gw2 is you aren’t forced to do anything u want… i dont like www i will dont play it, i will enjoy other stuff.. if someone dont like fractal, agony and ascended grind stuff he can avoid it and enjoy all the rest of the game, if u dont like dungeon u can still play pve etc etc

gw2 key is dont force anyone to do anything, so if some players dont like raid just keep calm and play your favourite open zerg…

CDI and devs work should be make this game much complete as possible to make happy all kind of players, and i also have idea for make happy casual players and hardcore players but i will explain my ideas during the CDI, here is not the right place

GW2 was promoted as the Anti-MMO, an MMO where people can get away from the kinds of things you and notrigger are wanting. So much for the grand experiment. Seems like you just want rehashed generic MMO version 35.

gw2 is really different from other games…. i try to explay why…

i play this game since bwe, and in this last months i became bored of gw2, cause there is no real news, so i’ve played alot of other mmorpg but i was really unsatified because ALL games have 2 big pillars

1) farm is necessary, u have to grind tiers and contents for have a tier 1 armor then tier 2 etc etc for be the powerfull player on the planet, so u have to spend alot of time with daily that make you powerfull and “obliges” you to play. gw2 doesent obliges you to do nothing, if i dont play it for 3 months i dont lost tiers or i will became useless, this game keep the player free to live his life and to enjoy contents without be obsessed to vertical progressions. In this months i’m back to an “older” mmo i was playing 3 years ago, i was “pro” in this game, but now my tier was someting like yellow pieces lvl 79 inside fotm 50 w/o agony resistance… ok 3 years is alot of time but i feel it insane, i’ve played my tier raids and they change it, they make it ridicoulous easy, it was really hard in the past and do u wanna know why? read the nexth point

2) F2P or DLC… if player will go faster on lower tier they will BUY expansion will allow them to play higher tier, so you have to buy the dlc or pay the fee… here you dont have to pay anything you dont wanna pay

in gw2 you are free to play what u want or DONT PLAY for all the time u dont wanna play and u dont lose anything, u dont have to make up the time lost for grind something, like fractal, there is agony resistance, and ascended, but if u dont like fractal u can avoid this things and enjoy the rest of the game without be a noob

i feel gw2 a game will make u free, this is the pillar, not anti mmo…. do u wanna play ZerkCornerMaxdpsONLY? nice u have all the dungeons, u wanna something more complicated, organized and with different role? i hope to find it on raids… if u dont like it just dont play it, as i dont play www

NoTrigger.8396:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SirBlunticus.4258:

Shpongle.6025:

SirBlunticus.4258:

I’m sorry but this game is too amazing to not have any endgame content.
Fractals and playing dress up isnt end game content.
The game was great, until I hit 80….now its boring, nothing to do.
I love crafting in any mmo, I usually horde mats and such. GW2 theres no reason to, why waste my time when all crafting is for is the nicest gear, but there is no reason to have it unless you want to run a 5-man fractal (5 MAN!?, might as well call it an expert dungeon)
There are too many games out there that have everything gw2 has and much more.
Devs need to figure out a way to keep people engaged at 80, fractals and playing barbie dress up is not it.
WE NEED RAIDS!

There already are raids like triple wurm, tequatl, jormag etc.

But yeah there’s no 20 man dungeons, although I think that would be fun. But not 20 man, more like 10 man or 15 man, that’s enough or it stops feeling like a dungeon.

I really, really hope we will get to see Underworld in GW2 some day.

I am terribly sorry sir but these examples are perfect for my original post. How are these considered raids??? They are more like dynamic events or something. Not a raid, no way. I tried teq once….made it all the way to the end….didn’t know mechanics or anything for that matter and it was simple. What raid have you ever played where its that easy. Raids are supposed to punish you for not knowing mechanics, be tough for people who want it easy.
These so called “raids” are not even close…go play RIFT and they have these events all day long! (tougher than teq though mind you which if I’m not mistaken is once a day)
If you like these type of “EVENTS” go play rift…you will be satisfied.

There are no raids in GW2 sorry folks. If you think there is go play an mmo with “real” raids. Then tell me how simple teq or your GW2 (raids…lol) are.
I just don’t understand I guess…lmao

Perhaps you should take your own advice…. and go play Rift instead. There are a lot of other games that offer precisely what you want.

However, I don’t think anet wants to be “just like everyone else.” If they did, GW2 would not be what it is currently. We’d have traditional static quests. A heck of a lot more gear treadmill. And things like Teq would be instanced.

Some of us do consider Teq and Wurm to be “raid like” in their requirements. If you don’t have people that know how to do the assorted part of Teq you will fail. I’ve seen it fail more times than not due to lack of understanding and coordination. Wurm, well I’ve never seen Wurm succeed, but admittedly I don’t do it often.

Unless Anet has changed their stance on desiring to add more instances (and Chris can correct me if I’m wrong), I think we’d be more likely to see more open world raids like Teq and Wurm, than something like WoW’s 40 man heroics. I honestly don’t think there is a place for that type of raid (40 man heroic) in GW2, although elite ‘zones’ like from GW1 would fit quite nicely.

open world events arent raids and will never be.
they dont need a “raid cdi” or raid content designer for open world stuff because they can create that kind of content already.
and tbh i dont understand why some people call everything in gw2 raid?!

wvw = raid
cursed shore 11111 = raid
dynamic events = raid
world bosses = raid
living story = raid

in gw2 everything is a raid because some people dont know what a raid looks like.

a raid isnt “jump in, zerg it down, get the reward”
a raid needs planning, an organized and coordinated group of players, skilled players, tactics and lots of other stuff that would be just too complex for open world events.
it should take top guilds weeks to kill a boss for the first time. not a few hours or 3 days.

I know a raid isn’t jump in and zerg it down. You may have noted that I only listed two things in the game as raid like. And those two things do require the things you listed as required in a raid – planning (who’s manning turrets, who’s defending turrets, whos taking the front line, which commander is taking which battery, etc), coordination (thus why people gather an hour or more _before spawn time and then kitten about it), and so on.

I think it took TTS 2 days to figure out wurm. It took servers longer to figure out Teq. Honestly, even WoW’s heroic raids didn’t take the top raid guilds a whole week to figure out. A few days max (cause they freaking brag about that crap). You seem to underestimate just how quickly people figure things out and adapt.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I know a raid isn’t jump in and zerg it down. You may have noted that I only listed two things in the game as raid like. And those two things do require the things you listed as required in a raid – planning (who’s manning turrets, who’s defending turrets, whos taking the front line, which commander is taking which battery, etc), coordination (thus why people gather an hour or more _before spawn time and then kitten about it), and so on.

I think it took TTS 2 days to figure out wurm. It took servers longer to figure out Teq. Honestly, even WoW’s heroic raids didn’t take the top raid guilds a whole week to figure out. A few days max (cause they freaking brag about that crap). You seem to underestimate just how quickly people figure things out and adapt.

The Triple headed Wurm took about 4 days for Desolation to kill it, I think 1 week until Blackgate killed it, just under 2 week till TxS killed it (I think) and over 2 weeks for TTS to kill for the first time.

Keep in mind Phase 2 of the wurm used to be a lot harder then it is now (ferocity change made it easier) however in the beginning everyone struggled just to get past phase 1 (it took TTS around 2 days to get past that and they were first) .

I personally maintain it’s a Raid.

I want more events and things in the world. Have the dragons and other bosses attack area all
over the map. Not a raid. We have an amazing world that ANET has taken years to develop.
I don’t wanna see them waste all that for another instanced raid. They have great ideas for
the boss fights in the world they just need to explore that more. I think thats one of the
greatest strengths of the game…The World. But enough fans will complain and they will do
something for them…almost seems like thats why we got ascended gear, even though ANET
said it was planned all along. well thats my opinion at least.

Leaa.2943:

……..

look, in other games you have gear grind, reputation grind and a trinity as you mentioned. but that doesnt mean gw2 will need this stuff.

good raids do not require gear grind, reputation grind or a trinity.

i can only repeat it over and over again. in a game without gear grind and without content blocker, raid content will be optional. as optional as everything else in the game.
dont like wvw? dont do wvw
dont like pvp? dont do pvp
dont like dungeons? dont run dungeons
dont like raids? dont raid

its as simple as that.
and you wont find a good reason against raids as long as people arent forced to raid to unlock content or grind gear.
basically the entire anti raid discussion is based on “i dont want it because i dont like it and only care about myself”. and this isnt a valid argument. this is kittened and toxic.

guardian.6489:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I know a raid isn’t jump in and zerg it down. You may have noted that I only listed two things in the game as raid like. And those two things do require the things you listed as required in a raid – planning (who’s manning turrets, who’s defending turrets, whos taking the front line, which commander is taking which battery, etc), coordination (thus why people gather an hour or more _before spawn time and then kitten about it), and so on.

I think it took TTS 2 days to figure out wurm. It took servers longer to figure out Teq. Honestly, even WoW’s heroic raids didn’t take the top raid guilds a whole week to figure out. A few days max (cause they freaking brag about that crap). You seem to underestimate just how quickly people figure things out and adapt.

The Triple headed Wurm took about 4 days for Desolation to kill it, I think 1 week until Blackgate killed it, just under 2 week till TxS killed it (I think) and over 2 weeks for TTS to kill for the first time.

Keep in mind Phase 2 of the wurm used to be a lot harder then it is now (ferocity change made it easier) however in the beginning everyone struggled just to get past phase 1 (it took TTS around 2 days to get past that and they were first) .

I personally maintain it’s a Raid.

if it was instanced top guilds would have killed it within a few hours.

challenging content for guilds is what this game is missing.
and you cant make open world stuff challenging enough for a group of dedicated and skilled players.

and a raid isnt a single boss fight.

I don’t understand why everyone is getting so angry at ADDING new content and the word RAID.
I’m fully aware of the setup of this game. Why is everything considered a raid? WvW is not raiding, events, fractals none are raiding.
In raiding you have to first GET to the boss. With stronger and more mechanically demanding mobs. Don’t act like you don’t know what a raid is.
If you want to defend your game that’s one thing, I agreed with everyone on the content is great and they need to add more of it.
I just feel that this is a missing piece to the gw2 puzzle.
Hey, some will raid some wont. No one said anything about gear, faction rep or mentioned anything grindy.
It was an addition to a great game, but personally would like some form of validation… I mean why master your character….for a set of gear? Then once you get it what do you use it on? To me I want better gear so I can tackle a more formidable foe. take my best weapons and challenge the toughest creature with hard mechanics to boot.
Again, I don’t want anything changed, just an addition for others and there’s obviously many.
Stop getting angry at each other…….nuff said.

I dont understand why people are against “instanced raids”. If anything this type of content will not be mandatory just like everything in GW2 and you are free to ignore it if you dont like it.

What is a RAID? In my opinion first of all raid is a TEAM. A team that is going to complete some different task – and that’s what makes it different from “open world zergs” and “semi afk 111 spam”. A team should have leadership, that’s why making a raid instanced is the closest viable solution.

Even now if you analyze closely what is going on during Triple Trouble event you will see that guilds de-facto use nearly empty maps (instances) to fill them with people who are willing to cooperate (not necessarily guildies). They de-facto bypassing “open world idea” because it simply does not work

People are against instanced raids because it means they actually have to work together with people, not leech and actually do their part. They just want to do their thing and not give a **** about anyone else, and therefore because of this, nobody deserves instanced raids because how dare others expect me to pull my weight.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Good Evening,

So to be clear unnecessary comments about ‘True Gamers’, ‘Elitists’ and ‘Dress Up Players’ won’t be tolerated.

Chris

In my experience “elitists” and “true gamers” are the main types of players a raid attracts. I can only listen to the proper character build, gear, skills, path through the dungeon, tactics rhetoric for so long before I start to think the whole concept of an MMO is flawed. Haven’t you noticed that most looking for group entries mandate that you are experienced and/or level 80 at least?

But I see you don’t want a lot of negative whiners so I’ve got an idea. Instead of doing what everyone else has already done how about doing something almost no one else has done. Let us tell our own stories – give us an editor.

> The mini instance mechanic you use for the stories is the perfect delivery vehicle that would allow us to put our adventures anywhere in the game world.

> It would be all but self policed as we would quickly turn on anyone who tries to exploit or abuse it.

> It might supply you with ideas on where to go with the other elder dragons. Or ideas of stuff for us to do upon our return to Cantha and Elona. (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)

> I do think it would be wise to require your moderators indicate what is wrong with any given module so we know what to fix and more importantly we have some idea on how you are interpreting your own rules.

I get it. Its a huge amount of work. I hope you will consider it anyway. Adding an editor would set Guild Wars 2 apart from almost everyone else. I also understand I don’t know enough about your game inner workings to grasp how much work this would take to implement. But keep in mind that also applies to the half dozen or more people who are about to tell you this won’t work.

There are a few reasons why I suggest adding an editor. The standard “end game” is just concentrated repetition. I don’t get why so many people seem to think this is the best part of the game when it is so boring. Also, so many CRPG’s can trace their main design influence all the way back to Dungeons & Dragons and yet so few seem to understand that D&D main business plan was to support player made content.

maha.7902:

People are against instanced raids because it means they actually have to work together with people, not leech and actually do their part. They just want to do their thing and not give a **** about anyone else, and therefore because of this, nobody deserves instanced raids because how dare others expect me to pull my weight.

This is the kind of attitude that could kill raids. These kinds of accusations will only perpetuate the fighting between those on the above average side of the skill continuum and those on the below average side. You’d be better served to push for hard and normal mode content so that both sides of the divide would be able to participate at their level of skill.

Someone like yourself who has a lot of experience with the game and dungeons could offer a lot of positives to the raid CDI. If you’d rather be negative than contributory, you’re really only kittening yourself — but I guess that’s up to you.

Skady.5916:

I dont understand why people are against “instanced raids”. If anything this type of content will not be mandatory just like everything in GW2 and you are free to ignore it if you dont like it.

What is a RAID? In my opinion first of all raid is a TEAM. A team that is going to complete some different task – and that’s what makes it different from “open world zergs” and “semi afk 111 spam”. A team should have leadership, that’s why making a raid instanced is the closest viable solution.

Even now if you analyze closely what is going on during Triple Trouble event you will see that guilds de-facto use nearly empty maps (instances) to fill them with people who are willing to cooperate (not necessarily guildies). They de-facto bypassing “open world idea” because it simply does not work

No. It is not a team. A raid is quite often blind obedience and conformity to the “correct” way to play.

A team means input. A leader needs to know the weakness and strength of each class and be able to compensate for different builds. If what you say is true then each run would be different then the last just because of the different people in the raid and different builds. I never seen this happen in a 5 man dungeon. Raids quite often devolve into stand here, shoot that, and don’t move.

Anet – if you are really going to add this kind of dungeon then I have a simple request. If you going to require a raid to kill one of the Elder Dragons like you required a dungeon to kill Zhaitan then let us abandon the story so we can abandon the raid dungeon and move on to the next story.

Terrin.2685:

Skady.5916:

I dont understand why people are against “instanced raids”. If anything this type of content will not be mandatory just like everything in GW2 and you are free to ignore it if you dont like it.

What is a RAID? In my opinion first of all raid is a TEAM. A team that is going to complete some different task – and that’s what makes it different from “open world zergs” and “semi afk 111 spam”. A team should have leadership, that’s why making a raid instanced is the closest viable solution.

Even now if you analyze closely what is going on during Triple Trouble event you will see that guilds de-facto use nearly empty maps (instances) to fill them with people who are willing to cooperate (not necessarily guildies). They de-facto bypassing “open world idea” because it simply does not work

No. It is not a team. A raid is quite often blind obedience and conformity to the “correct” way to play.

A team means input. A leader needs to know the weakness and strength of each class and be able to compensate for different builds. If what you say is true then each run would be different then the last just because of the different people in the raid and different builds. I never seen this happen in a 5 man dungeon. Raids quite often devolve into stand here, shoot that, and don’t move.

Anet – if you are really going to add this kind of dungeon then I have a simple request. If you going to require a raid to kill one of the Elder Dragons like you required a dungeon to kill Zhaitan then let us abandon the story so we can abandon the raid dungeon and move on to the next story.

This is pretty much true.
I dont support raiding in GW2 =(

We gonna copy paste World of Warcraft now? this is interesting. /shrug

SirBlunticus.4258:

WE NEED RAIDS!

No, we don’t. The reason I’m playing this game is that I don’t have to worry about restarting the gear treadmill every six months when a new raid comes out. WoW is about to come out with yet another expansion. Why don’t you give that a try instead?

This is the kind of attitude that could kill raids. These kinds of accusations will only perpetuate the fighting between those on the above average side of the skill continuum and those on the below average side. You’d be better served to push for hard and normal mode content so that both sides of the divide would be able to participate at their level of skill.

They have actually said outright, I believe on interview that hard mode is a thing which is simply not on the table, so why should I push for it?

And don’t you realise that if ANet offer any incentive to do hard mode (better rewards, either monetary, aesthetic or whatever) everyone on this forum will just start frothing saying they deserve the same even though they only want to put in zero effort?

No. It is not a team. A raid is quite often blind obedience and conformity to the “correct” way to play.

A team means input. A leader needs to know the weakness and strength of each class and be able to compensate for different builds. If what you say is true then each run would be different then the last just because of the different people in the raid and different builds. I never seen this happen in a 5 man dungeon. Raids quite often devolve into stand here, shoot that, and don’t move.

And this happens because people don’t want to communicate, it’s not the fault of raids themselves. I was standing at Arah Waypoint and in say chat I saw someone say “someone make an lfg?”.

Guess why? People don’t want to lead, they want to be lead like sheep. The amount of times I have seen fools follow me even though I’m stealthing myself through mobs (and they just pull everything), or where I’ll do strategies they’re unfamiliar with and they’ll mindlessly follow … people just want to be led.

You know what, let’s not have raids and then let’s just go back to complaining about how the large scale content in this game is just afk ranging bosses, and then complain there isn’t raid content and then let’s just repeat the cycle over and over again.

kitten .9460:

Valento.9852:

ANet isn’t reinventing the wheel, it’s just that GW2 lacks holy trinity (and of course that’s definitely NOT a bad thing) and therefore challenges, enemy AI design, and difficulty has to be sorted out altogether, or else you get crap uninteresting “challenges”. They simply won’t create instanced raids the same way because their systems are very different from other MMOs (to an extent).

Let’s look at challenges and AI.

Challenges: 1shot instagibs. Bosses with billions of HP. Blinding particle effects.

AI: the same repeated attacks with very few bosses actually having phases and never more than 2 afaik. Hell not like it matters, the game still comes down to dodge or die then go back to autoattacking in a ball.

RSLongK.8961:

Valento.9852:

ANet isn’t reinventing the wheel, it’s just that GW2 lacks holy trinity (and of course that’s definitely NOT a bad thing) and therefore challenges, enemy AI design, and difficulty has to be sorted out altogether, or else you get crap uninteresting “challenges”. They simply won’t create instanced raids the same way because their systems are very different from other MMOs (to an extent).

This.
Teq/3Worm IS the gw2 raids, The system here will allow so far this kind of experience, if ppl are expecting a “world of kitten” experience they will just be frustated, so a lot of time and resources wasted that could be used in other areas (new zones, new skills blablabla).

Those aren’t raids. They are open world zergs.

These are very much Raids in GW2. These are the kinds of Raids you will be getting in GW2. This is a fact that players need to get used to. These are fun events that require coordination. If you have ever tried to zerg either of these events then you failed the event and received no rewards. I’ll guarantee that whatever “Raid” that is released will be similar to Teq/Trip Trouble but with a roof over top.

I just think this is something we need to clear up before CDI.

maha.7902:

People are against instanced raids because it means they actually have to work together with people, not leech and actually do their part. They just want to do their thing and not give a **** about anyone else, and therefore because of this, nobody deserves instanced raids because how dare others expect me to pull my weight.

Actually it’s quite the Opposite.
I’m against Raids because with 10-20 players you can have just another zergy content where there are no skills involved like WvW today…

The more players you have the more mistakes you can make and less pressure there is on the players…

The less players you have the less mistakes you can make and more pressure on the players. I prefer challenging content not zergy content that raids will provide.

Lets not forget it’s easier for the devs to balance with less players and you dont have to look for so many people to do a content with too.

Perhaps a difficult content could require 3 players max?
Now that’s what I’d like to see in game.

Bernie.8674:

SirBlunticus.4258:

WE NEED RAIDS!

No, we don’t. The reason I’m playing this game is that I don’t have to worry about restarting the gear treadmill every six months when a new raid comes out. WoW is about to come out with yet another expansion. Why don’t you give that a try instead?

Raid does not necessarily mean “gear treadmill”. Gear treadmill only exists in your mind cause you didn’t like it in WoW. Open world raid doesnt mean gear treadmill, instanced raid doesnt mean gear treadmill.

Gear treadmill is essentially a way of distributing rewards and gating the content. You can have no raids at all and can have gear treadmill (new levels, new expansions etc)

Chris question for you m8 how do u think raiding will work whit lack of in game mechanics like tank and healer no holy trinity it will still be just dps rush whit doge this position there so on? dont you think that gw need to add the healing back so you guys can create better content at least for pve ?
thx in advance im just asking developers opinion

Gele, tune in this weekend (or Monday) — whenever Chris Whiteside has the time to kick it off there is going to be a CDI (Collaborative Development Initiative) on the subject of Guild Raids. You can ask your questions there and even propose answers. It will be a red-flagged thread in the General forums.

Though we’re getting so many red flags now that’s not as distinguishing feature as it used to be

NoTrigger.8396:

Leaa.2943:

Oh my god NO, no instanced raids. I been raiding in mmo’s for so long and got out of it and are so happy with GW2. I am still raiding, but in wvw as it should be because GW2 is a pvp-game with pve content hence the name GUILDWARS-.
Please do not make pve-raids. More world content and maybe even harder content, is highly appreciated, but raiding you can do in any other mmo-game, we don’t need it here, we have endgame already. WvW is endgame.

The stress of raids, of gear grind, or keeping buffs up, having dedicated healers, tanks, counting every little dps you put out there and to grind reputation just to get 5 dps/hps more it is just not what i want with this game and also the reason why i choose this when i quit Rift, the most grinding, elitist (and yes i was in top tier of raiding) money hungry game i ever been in and i was there for 3 years. Never again!

people like you are the reason why gw2 has become so stale and boring

mind explaining what
-gear grind
-having dedicated healers and tanks (trinity)
-grinding reputation
has to do with raids?

i do hope the mods will do a good job and keep the raid cdi clean from the anti-raid faction

I am 100% fine with end-game raids that are built for the hardcore player.

Under 1 condition:

They add no new “best in Stat” gear. Gear progression stops with Ascended/Legendary like they intended.

That still leaves you with new unique cosmetics as rewards for raiding, new only obtainable via raiding skins and minis, AND possibly Legendary weapons or guaranteed precursor drops, and I think that this is a possible way to add another method of precursor acquisition not tied to RNG.

maha.7902:

They have actually said outright, I believe on interview that hard mode is a thing which is simply not on the table, so why should I push for it?

Things change. I recall them saying there would be no raids, yet there will be a Raid CDI.

maha.7902:

And don’t you realise that if ANet offer any incentive to do hard mode (better rewards, either monetary, aesthetic or whatever) everyone on this forum will just start frothing saying they deserve the same even though they only want to put in zero effort?

There are some exclusive rewards for harder content now (Teq/TT/TAAP/FWS). You may not feel that drops and coin for dungeon or FotM runs are worth the time, but they reward a lot better than anything else in the game except maybe for the World Boss trains. Whether these types of thing would be enough to satisfy the raid mentality or not, ANet has shown a willingness to provide both better and exclusive rewards for harder content.

Syndrilious.9632:

NoTrigger.8396:

Leaa.2943:

Oh my god NO, no instanced raids. I been raiding in mmo’s for so long and got out of it and are so happy with GW2. I am still raiding, but in wvw as it should be because GW2 is a pvp-game with pve content hence the name GUILDWARS-.
Please do not make pve-raids. More world content and maybe even harder content, is highly appreciated, but raiding you can do in any other mmo-game, we don’t need it here, we have endgame already. WvW is endgame.

The stress of raids, of gear grind, or keeping buffs up, having dedicated healers, tanks, counting every little dps you put out there and to grind reputation just to get 5 dps/hps more it is just not what i want with this game and also the reason why i choose this when i quit Rift, the most grinding, elitist (and yes i was in top tier of raiding) money hungry game i ever been in and i was there for 3 years. Never again!

people like you are the reason why gw2 has become so stale and boring

mind explaining what
-gear grind
-having dedicated healers and tanks (trinity)
-grinding reputation
has to do with raids?

i do hope the mods will do a good job and keep the raid cdi clean from the anti-raid faction

I am 100% fine with end-game raids that are built for the hardcore player.

Under 1 condition:

They add no new “best in Stat” gear. Gear progression stops with Ascended/Legendary like they intended.

That still leaves you with new unique cosmetics as rewards for raiding, new only obtainable via raiding skins and minis, AND possibly Legendary weapons or guaranteed precursor drops, and I think that this is a possible way to add another method of precursor acquisition not tied to RNG.

As a former raider in WoW, this is all I would ask of them. I don’t want an increase in stats. I would just like to see unique weapons, armor(soulbound/account bound only) and titles from completing the content. I would like to see the option of extremely difficult content that takes extensive planning in tactics and coordination.
Please give me a reason to join a guild.

And a sidenote – I love how, it’s three pages in and already there are people mentioning “leeching” and so forth.

If you want to know my biggest objection to raids? This is why. That attitude? Don’t want it stinking up the game any more than it already does. Hard content which is punishingly difficult so “the filthy casual leechers” don’t take part? Fine with it, I just won’t do it.

But the thought of someone desiring a part of the game specifically to exclude other players? No. Thank. You.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

And a sidenote – I love how, it’s three pages in and already there are people mentioning “leeching” and so forth.

If you want to know my biggest objection to raids? This is why. That attitude? Don’t want it stinking up the game any more than it already does. Hard content which is punishingly difficult so “the filthy casual leechers” don’t take part? Fine with it, I just won’t do it.

But the thought of someone desiring a part of the game specifically to exclude other players? No. Thank. You.

Someone mentions that and it automatically makes the entire pro raid community the stinkers? If we are going to judge from this thread alone, it shows that the people anti raid are much more toxic than the people wanting them.

There’s going to be kittens in every part of the game. It doesn’t automatically mean everyone is like that.
I would seriously suggest you avoid PvP in any game, ever.

Raids are either endgame content – i.e. something all players expect to be part of the endgame – or they’re optional exclusive content. They can’t be both.

Raids don’t work as endgame content because they’re designed to require a lot of investment in the game, so many players can’t participate. This causes frustration and splits the playerbase. We’ve already seen a microcosm of this with elitist dungeon runners and complaints about time-limited content, but that will look like a minor spat compared to what would happen if endgame content gets locked behind large raids. Raids that are inclusive of the player base would be about the same as dungeons, so that players could expect them to form part of typical post-leveling play.

Raids that are exclusive couldn’t be part of the typical endgame – that’s the point of exclusive content. Only a small number of people complete it. Most players won’t even try that kind of content – not to mention many players don’t have large, active guilds or other ways to organize themselves. Difficult raids requiring strategy and planning are the exact opposite of good endgame content.

There’s also a lot of content that could be added or updated which I would find more fun. Raids don’t appeal to me – I’m a working adult with a family. I have a hard time managing to do dungeon runs every few weeks. Content in raids is simply content I would never see. I have to wonder how many players are in my position. It’s probably not a small number.

I would much, much rather have:

• Content added to the personal story. The early racial stories are interesting – could we get follow ups on that?
• Active home instances. A menagerie for our minis maybe? Some place to keep in touch with our old friends?
• More fun minigames
• Better event bugfixing and ambient voice acting
• A fixed trait system

Raids can either be endgame content for most players or difficult tactical challenges, but they can’t be both. For me, effort spent on raids is wasted because I simply can’t do it. I know I’m not alone in this. Other kinds of endgame content would be much more interesting.

I hope too they wont be instanced .
I think , it cost too much and need more time creating a istanced raid from the scrap , when the majority of the ppl will will abondon it in the 1st week (if you want 1-2 fully raids every 4-5 months go ahead ….),

…rather than each time you activate the Guild Perk = the copy of that map that host the boss is redesinged with dark sky
+ on the air some poison pollen again
+ creating walls of skulls/woden spikes/insisible walls with dark-cloudy mist/lava or accid pools
, in order to create a pseudo raid invoroment , each time you activate this event from the Guild perks (and only random ppl with specific lvls will be able to go there if there is a free spot)

And making the first 2 first bosses and the last boss easy to kill so even lower tier guilds can do this guild event .
Last boss has a chance to drop an item .
And creaing extra bosses that are simply optional but are nightmare to do for hardcore guilds and they too have a better chance to drop that item + award ’’points’’ where if you have enought , you can buy from an NPC that ’’item’’ you tried to farm all these time .

There is already open world raids…

Try to defeat Triple Trouble or Tequatl with you group, or 2 groups…. They require raids. ‘Coordinated ones’ as well.

Fernling.1729:

Someone mentions that and it automatically makes the entire pro raid community the stinkers? If we are going to judge from this thread alone, it shows that the people anti raid are much more toxic than the people wanting them.

Did I say that? No, really, I’m looking over and reviewing what I said and that doesn’t appear in there. And this defensiveness is exactly why I suspect a Raiding CDI is going to either fail hard or require so much herding of cats it will never amount to anything useful.

. . . and yes, since you said it, that cuts both ways. Sure, the “ima troo gamer!” chest-thumping annoys me to no end. So does “go back to WoW if you want raids”. We have raids right now, open-world raids, in the revised Tequatl and Triple Trouble. Are these terribly easy compared to other raids?

How should I know? I play this game. I know they don’t hold a candle to Absolute Virtue, if you want to set a bar for “hardcore”. I know Quarm could take that Great Jungle Wurm and pass it like it had a bad burrito. But . . . they make good warmups for knowing how to organize and do your roles so you can get a success.

And that’s important. I’d personally like to see more “raids” extrapolated from those two into harder territories. If it gets too hard? I won’t do them.

It’s still not cool to push for a design so “casuals” can’t play. That’s not the problem with raids anyway – the problem with raids is when you get some yahoo who doesn’t listen and decides to Leeroy up and mess it all up.

The game is built so it has a base inclusive feel for it. Can we please, please not screw that up?

I would seriously suggest you avoid PvP in any game, ever.

I do, but mostly because I utterly stink at it. But thanks for your concern.

Just want to add one quick comment. This next CDI will be a very interesting read. Their are 2 polar opposite groups. I just really hope we keep the current spirit of the CDI (respect each other). I will mostly be reading this new CDI because I don’t have to many opinions on raids but like I said it will be a fun read.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Fernling.1729:

Someone mentions that and it automatically makes the entire pro raid community the stinkers? If we are going to judge from this thread alone, it shows that the people anti raid are much more toxic than the people wanting them.

Did I say that? No, really, I’m looking over and reviewing what I said and that doesn’t appear in there. And this defensiveness is exactly why I suspect a Raiding CDI is going to either fail hard or require so much herding of cats it will never amount to anything useful.

. . . and yes, since you said it, that cuts both ways. Sure, the “ima troo gamer!” chest-thumping annoys me to no end. So does “go back to WoW if you want raids”. We have raids right now, open-world raids, in the revised Tequatl and Triple Trouble. Are these terribly easy compared to other raids?

How should I know? I play this game. I know they don’t hold a candle to Absolute Virtue, if you want to set a bar for “hardcore”. I know Quarm could take that Great Jungle Wurm and pass it like it had a bad burrito. But . . . they make good warmups for knowing how to organize and do your roles so you can get a success.

And that’s important. I’d personally like to see more “raids” extrapolated from those two into harder territories. If it gets too hard? I won’t do them.

It’s still not cool to push for a design so “casuals” can’t play. That’s not the problem with raids anyway – the problem with raids is when you get some yahoo who doesn’t listen and decides to Leeroy up and mess it all up.

The game is built so it has a base inclusive feel for it. Can we please, please not screw that up?

I would seriously suggest you avoid PvP in any game, ever.

I do, but mostly because I utterly stink at it. But thanks for your concern.

I’m just saying that every single part of every mmo has toxic people. I don’t see why people like to target the raiders. Maybe we should remove the dungeons from the game while we are at it. PvP players are kittens. WvW players are so bad that Anet had to get rid of WvW forums. The list goes on and on.

There are elitist kittens everywhere, it doesn’t mean that we should remove or keep people from enjoying another piece of content. Penalizing the majority for a fews actions is inane.

Fernling.1729:

I’m just saying that every single part of every mmo has toxic people. I don’t see why people like to target the raiders.

And I don’t see why people like to talk down about “casuals”, even talking outside of raids. I don’t see why stepping in and telling the people “don’t talk like that” . . . whomever they are . . . is targeting them for persecution.

Right now, in this thread, it started to lean to “raids are for the hardcore real gamers” and that offends me when we’re talking about this game right here. A game which, as I said, was built on the idea of welcoming people who were willing to at least try something instead of going “you must be this l33t to raid”.

If you think I’m singling out the raiders right now? It’s because they happen to be the loudest. They’ve stepped up to go “we don’t want casual players in our fun”. And therefore, they are the ones I’m going to shoot at currently.

Generally speaking?

If you seriously think there is a good reason to design a part of the game specifically to exclude players, so they’re neither welcome to try or worthy of the rewards? You need to step back from the keyboard and thing long and hard about why.

I think that both sides of the to raid or not to raid divide need to take into consideration that Anet will put their own spin on raiding if they bring it to GW2. I have no doubt that it will be implemented to fit into their vision for this game rather than just being a copy paste of other games.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Stormcrow.7513:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Stormcrow.7513:

By the time the meta data is analyzed, the raid material constructed and the content is released, there will be other games more interesting.
AKA Too little too late.

Yes Storm perhaps your right. Maybe we should not discuss raiding at all or any other evolution of the game for that matter.

Or perhaps we should have a think about the impact that CDI has had across all aspects of the game in what can only be described as a swift manner in development terms.

So why am I taking the bait? Because it is an opportunity once again to make a few things clear. CDI is of a massive benefit to the team and community, but if you don’t believe that then you don’t have to be part of it. But please don’t bring others down because your thoughts differ from theirs.

And to be clear this is in reference to a number of folks posting in the thread and not just you.

Finally the CDI is a dev tool and if folks cannot respect that and find it difficult to be collaborative and valuable in this kind of design environment then they will have their oppurtunitu to be part of the initiative taken away from them. Of course they will still be allowed to give their opinion elsewhere on the forums but not in the CDI.

In the Design Dept. we have three golden rules:

1: Postive attitude toward problem solving is a key requisite of a great designer.
2: collaboration is king
3: Respect for others is paramount.

Hopefully it isn’t to much of a stretch therefore to see how I also believe these tenants to be true for the CDI.

Thanks,

Chris

To be fair Chris, people have been waiting for over 2 years for end game raiding content.
I am sure you can understand the apathy and frustration that people have from that long of a wait.
I love GW2, I really do. The problem is the lack of new and exciting content.
I am wholeheartedly looking forward to the CDI and raid content in general but currently, the game(for me and probably others) has become stagnant.
I would rather have better monster AI and mechanics rather than the same stack and smack zerg raids anyday.
I hope that in the end the CDI helps Anet form a plan that the user base will find fun and entertaining.

Awesome. And I respect what you are saying.

The Raid CDI is going to be great and I look forward to doing into it with you Storm.

Chris

The CDIs are a great way for you guys to interact with us, but I strongly believe (and this is no shot at you specifically) that it will be much too little, much too late. While GW2 seems to be doing well trying to serve its current prime markets, I really think that management dropped the ball putting so much stock into Living Season 1 at the expense of any progress for the game.

While I may (and I hope I am) be wrong about the lack of progress we have seen since LS Season 1 has slowed down, I believe that a lot of the people that are bored with this game are so jaded because there is just a stonewall when we try to ascertain where Guild Wars 2 is headed in the medium to long term. Living Story Season 2 has had its great moments, especially as far as potentially compelling end game content is concerned,The dragon fight was amazing. I keep hoping Living Story Season 2 will culminate in another world boss event a la wurm. It feels like a pipe dream on my part, and I wish it didn’t feel that way.

I am against raids because they will either be “easy” or “hard.” If they are “easy”, people will wonder what the whole point was. If they are “hard”, then everyone will expect truly phenomenal rewards in order for the raid to be “worth it.” That’s how raids work in most other games – all the best rewards are locked behind raid content. GW2 has pretty much never done this: you’ll probably get a single set of unique weapon skins, and a gold reward proportionate to difficulty, as in dungeons, but that doesn’t increase inflation too much. Overall, most people won’t be too excited.

If the rewards don’t work in GW2 like they do in other games, most of the raiders (who are constantly clamoring for this content), won’t even like it once it’s implemented. And those who aren’t in favour of raids won’t do them very much anyway. All in all, they’re probably a waste of dev time, since no one will be satisfied. Instead creating a fundamentally new game mode, spend the time making a dozen new dungeons instead.

Olvendred.3027:

I am against raids because they will either be “easy” or “hard.” If they are “easy”, people will wonder what the whole point was. If they are “hard”, then everyone will expect truly phenomenal rewards in order for the raid to be “worth it.” That’s how raids work in most other games – all the best rewards are locked behind raid content. GW2 has pretty much never done this: you’ll probably get a single set of unique weapon skins, and a gold reward proportionate to difficulty, as in dungeons, but that doesn’t increase inflation too much. Overall, most people won’t be too excited.

If the rewards don’t work in GW2 like they do in other games, most of the raiders (who are constantly clamoring for this content), won’t even like it once it’s implemented. And those who aren’t in favour of raids won’t do them very much anyway. All in all, they’re probably a waste of dev time, since no one will be satisfied. Instead creating a fundamentally new game mode, spend the time making a dozen new dungeons instead.

I agree, though I’m not against Raid’s since we have a bunch of raids in game already and they are fun.

I’m not for the Dev’s wasting resources on content that isn’t needed, though.

Perhaps just add some single Raid bosses as additional path options to existing dungeons. Some 10-man options should be fine for the original dungeons and a 20+ option fighting Shiro and Lich for Fractals of the Mists. This way the Devs could save time on making new models and locations. Also, from starting out with these small investments, we can all get an idea of where and how to build from the data and feedback. The Devs just need to lay it out in a way in which the community understands that this is a partnership for progress. Design small scale in order to move on to a grander scale.

I play enough PvE, WvW, and PvP to see that WvW is in the most need of attention, currently. I understand that a great deal of players do not wish to participate in WvW but having each game mode as healthy as possible will only serve to help the other modes. PvE will keep a game alive but the competitive scene is what draws in great numbers in any game.

SirBlunticus.4258:

I’m sorry but this game is too amazing to not have any endgame content.
Fractals and playing dress up isnt end game content.
The game was great, until I hit 80….now its boring, nothing to do.
I love crafting in any mmo, I usually horde mats and such. GW2 theres no reason to, why waste my time when all crafting is for is the nicest gear, but there is no reason to have it unless you want to run a 5-man fractal (5 MAN!?, might as well call it an expert dungeon)
There are too many games out there that have everything gw2 has and much more.
Devs need to figure out a way to keep people engaged at 80, fractals and playing barbie dress up is not it.
WE NEED RAIDS!

i love you dude.

Olvendred.3027:

I am against raids because they will either be “easy” or “hard.” If they are “easy”, people will wonder what the whole point was. If they are “hard”, then everyone will expect truly phenomenal rewards in order for the raid to be “worth it.” That’s how raids work in most other games – all the best rewards are locked behind raid content. GW2 has pretty much never done this: you’ll probably get a single set of unique weapon skins, and a gold reward proportionate to difficulty, as in dungeons, but that doesn’t increase inflation too much. Overall, most people won’t be too excited.

If the rewards don’t work in GW2 like they do in other games, most of the raiders (who are constantly clamoring for this content), won’t even like it once it’s implemented. And those who aren’t in favour of raids won’t do them very much anyway. All in all, they’re probably a waste of dev time, since no one will be satisfied. Instead creating a fundamentally new game mode, spend the time making a dozen new dungeons instead.

the only point you get is the misconception of rewards, why not raids for fun? or rewards such as just titles?
+ when you talk about the games using this system you forgot to mention this system mean different difficulties, where the hardcore gamers can enjoy the game and the more casual aswell, a casual player anyway won’t expect to get the big things, it is actually the case and it would be aswell if there was raids, except the fact that the casual gamer could do it in normal modes and enjoy his time rather than playing barbie.

Jacobbs.9468:

Vayne.8563:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Good Evening,

A couple of things.

1: The next phase of the CDI will be delayed until this weekend or Monday due lack of available time on my part.
2: whilst I am very much looking forward to the raid discussion and chatting with you all about it I do want to make it clear that this last CDI has been excellent, with maturity and collaboration throughout. So to be clear unnecessary comments about ‘True Gamers’, ‘Elitists’ and ‘Dress Up Players’ won’t be tolerated.

I just want to make this clear so we can all have a healthy discussion and design out a Raid System proposal that is born out of GW2’s core mechanics, personality and community passion.

Looking forward to having a great discussion with you all.

Chris

Thanks for this. I really can’t stand people judging other people as “real” gamers, or carebears because they prefer one aspect of games to others. It’s demeaning and unnecessary.

Glad to see it won’t be tolerated in the raiding thread.

I strongly believe that the respect you speak of runs both ways. There are players that want some challenging, instanced raid content, but we just get called elitists and that’s that.

I’m in TTS, and we’ve been called elitists despite our open recruiting policy. We have a few simple rules to abide by: 1) rep when you do world events with us, 2) we ask that you get on TeamSpeak for Triple Trouble because of the nature of the fight (and we always explain everything for those that are joining us who are new – TS makes this much faster and easier) and 3) be nice to people. I don’t see how these rules make us elitist, but haters gunna hate.

Bottom line: the want for challenging content does not automatically mean that we want to exclude people from content in the game.

No one said you did. But elitism is a problem with a certain percentage of people who like hard content, not all people who like hard content. There are people out there who pretty much live to insult and put down other people.

It’s like PvPers. There are a lot of really nice PvPers. I know some of them. But there’s also a very vocal element of PvPers who will trash anyone who enters a match and does something wrong.

Now, it’s far less likely that that will happen with casual players in game. The calls of elitist tend to be a response to people who are telling us how bad we are.

But I don’t believe people who want hard content are elitists and I don’t think casual people can’t play the game.

Vayne.8563:

Jacobbs.9468:

Vayne.8563:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Good Evening,

A couple of things.

1: The next phase of the CDI will be delayed until this weekend or Monday due lack of available time on my part.
2: whilst I am very much looking forward to the raid discussion and chatting with you all about it I do want to make it clear that this last CDI has been excellent, with maturity and collaboration throughout. So to be clear unnecessary comments about ‘True Gamers’, ‘Elitists’ and ‘Dress Up Players’ won’t be tolerated.

I just want to make this clear so we can all have a healthy discussion and design out a Raid System proposal that is born out of GW2’s core mechanics, personality and community passion.

Looking forward to having a great discussion with you all.

Chris

Thanks for this. I really can’t stand people judging other people as “real” gamers, or carebears because they prefer one aspect of games to others. It’s demeaning and unnecessary.

Glad to see it won’t be tolerated in the raiding thread.

I strongly believe that the respect you speak of runs both ways. There are players that want some challenging, instanced raid content, but we just get called elitists and that’s that.

I’m in TTS, and we’ve been called elitists despite our open recruiting policy. We have a few simple rules to abide by: 1) rep when you do world events with us, 2) we ask that you get on TeamSpeak for Triple Trouble because of the nature of the fight (and we always explain everything for those that are joining us who are new – TS makes this much faster and easier) and 3) be nice to people. I don’t see how these rules make us elitist, but haters gunna hate.

Bottom line: the want for challenging content does not automatically mean that we want to exclude people from content in the game.

No one said you did. But elitism is a problem with a certain percentage of people who like hard content, not all people who like hard content. There are people out there who pretty much live to insult and put down other people.

It’s like PvPers. There are a lot of really nice PvPers. I know some of them. But there’s also a very vocal element of PvPers who will trash anyone who enters a match and does something wrong.

Now, it’s far less likely that that will happen with casual players in game. The calls of elitist tend to be a response to people who are telling us how bad we are.

But I don’t believe people who want hard content are elitists and I don’t think casual people can’t play the game.

And because of this miniscule minority of scumbags (for the record, it’s the actual elite in video games who despise the “elitist” tryhard zerk only ping gear cof p1 tryhards) we have this massive brick wall of opposition to raids.

I don’t see why the tryhards upset people so much, it’s actual comical and you should laugh in their face if they’re being kitteny to you because it’s hilarious and sad because actual good players generally don’t care who they party up with since they know they can massively pull their weight if need be and clear the content (if you’ve ever had someone who complained about player X in their group getting them killed I guarantee you there was a decision they could have made at that moment to keep themselves alive, absolutely 100% guarantee it).

Here’s wondering what were to happen if they were to replace word Raids with Elite Missions.