Guild Wars 2

I can imagine the whine, but suppose it was “Unlock one of the ancient temples of Orr”

TWMagimay.9057:

Judas.5432:

I just like how completion is 7/7 instead of 9/9. Are we playing the same game here? Maybe I’m just missing the obvious ‘why’ of that?

Lvl1, 3, 5, 7 etc consist of 3 fractals. Lvl2, 4, 6, 8 etc consist of 4 fractals. 7 requires 2 runs(most people would either keep progressing or stick to an even level) while 9 needs 3 runs to complete. There is your obvious “why”.

Thank you! Can’t believe I didn’t think of that XD

They should NOT be forcing people to do particular content for their monthlies. Part of the originally touted game design was that there would be many ways to get the same rewards and they didn’t want to force people to do something they didn’t want to do.

I not only hate the requirement for fractals, but I’m dumbfounded as to why they are using monthlies to further incentivize participation in fractals, when the more people who do fractals, the more the rest of the game suffers as a result!

I would change monthlies to work the same way some DEs work. Offer multiple ways to fill the bar if you want a bar that counts non-world PvE achievements.

Instead of a bar for Fractals, a bar for Fractals or PvP Matches or WvWvW kills or Dungeon runs, with players able to combine the options in what ever way they want to fill the bar.

Or, better yet, a World PvE Monthly that works on the same things as the dailies and separate Monthlies for Dungeons, sPvP and WvW. Keep the non-world PvE achievements out of the PvE mothlies entirely!

Jabberwock.9014:

Worst thing is the WvW requirement that is there EVERY month. Now don’t get me wrong, I love spvp, but WvW is like pulling teeth trying to find people to kill.

The WvW is a EASY. I get it done in one day. For novices you can get easily get it done in 4 days.

I agree, it is hard enough to find groups for fractal, and I’ve had bad experiences so I refrain from doing fractals recently.

WvW is easy. WvW has been on the Monthly ever since pre-release! But Fractals? Twice in a row? OH NOEZ!!!!! They drive people into only one part!!!!
Seriously, if you complain about one aspect beeing in the monthly twice, complain the same amount about the other aspect, that has been there ever since the beginning. EVERY MONTH. Without fail. It’s pissing me off now especially, since there is a PvP monthly as well! I get that there are a lot of NPCs in WvW. And it’s not like sPvP or tPvP. It’s like a miyx between PvP and PvE. BUT: the monthly requires me to kill players which is definately a PvP aspect in the PvP Monthly. If you ask me, the aspect that belongs the least in the PvE monthly, I’d say WvW kills without hesitating.

The fractals are new. They have been included in the monthly twice so far. Maybe they add salvage or xp without dying or events next month. But right now they want to put the emphasis on that shiny new toy they have. Buy a kid a new toy and it’ll ignore all it’s existing toys for some time to play with the new toy. Same here.

Yeah it is difficult to find a group for fractals if you have a low level toon. But it is difficult to kill stuff in WvW with a low level toon as well! Only you BASE STATS get lifted. You still have crappy gear. You lack bonuses from traits. heck you might even lack utility or elite skills! A lvl 10 tool in WvW has a hard time! And WvW also depends on the amount of people currently doing WvW. If there are only very few people of your server on at the time you are on and lots of people from the other two servers…

I remember trying WvW last month. After a lot of frustration and a high rep bill I asked my boyfriend to do it for me. And it’s not like it’ll be any different this month! The map is the same. THE EXACT SAME! It never changes. At least I get to see different fractals. Those who don’t like fractals and dungeons and prefer PvP stuff can do the monthly PvP. To me, WvW kills belong in that one, not in the normal, PvE monthly.

There are many problems putting fractals onto the monthly:

1. Fractals is heavily gated (this is a crazy topic all on its own)
2. It’s a very narrow slice of the game.
3. Fractals requires a team
4. Was the same monthly as in November
5. There is already sufficient reward for running fractals (best in game)

I did my 7 fractals last night with a guild team. That was the only reason I wasn’t sitting in LA for an hour (or more) spamming “LFG Frac 7”. Yeah I could have went with any group running levels 1 through 7, but ANet designed fractals in a way which compels players to advance their level access.

The game is what it is and definitely won’t make everyone happy. I doubt ANet could construct a set of monthly achievements that 100% of the community would like. However I think there were many better choices available than fractals.

The biggest problem with requiring fractal completion is that a significant chunk of the population cannot complete a single fractal due to the overlooked dc issue. Honestly, ANET, wtf would you repeat the fractal requirement when you haven’t fixed the kitten dc issue?!

melodyca.8921:

Jabberwock.9014:

Worst thing is the WvW requirement that is there EVERY month. Now don’t get me wrong, I love spvp, but WvW is like pulling teeth trying to find people to kill.

The WvW is a EASY. I get it done in one day. For novices you can get easily get it done in 4 days.

Easy for you. Some people don’t do WvW though.

But THIS is the point of the monthly challenges – to get you to try parts of the game you wouldn’t normally interact with.

I’d rather it be “Do 7 Fractals OR Do 7 Dungeon Paths”

I remember reading somewhere that Anet considers fractals a success due to the fact that so many people were running it on a daily basis. Seems like they want to keep that number up.

I dont enjoy dungeons. but for the monthly i manned up and did the fractals. I found them tolerable, but once i had my 7 i stopped doing them.

During that experience i had bad groups, trouble getting groups, massive armour damage from a 2 hour encounter with the dredge suit boss and a selection of positive and negative experiences. I was happy to be finished with it.

Now i see i have to do it again and though i now know how to avoid the bad groups much better than i did, i know that i will find it hard to get into a group and i`ll be wasting time in lions arch trying to sort that out. I`ll likely run into at least one idiot asking me to link my gear (which is full exotic, but i`ll not group with someone who has that attitude).

I already feel that the game is trying to force me to do fractals as that seems to be the only way to get a decent income. It shouldnt need a monthly on top of that.

chronometria.3708:

…
I already feel that the game is trying to force me to do fractals as that seems to be the only way to get a decent income. It shouldnt need a monthly on top of that.

I feel this is what I was trying to say earlier in the thread.

I was surprised to hear that people had similar disdain for the WvW portion of the monthly. I’m glad some players responded and expressed their views because I had no idea before hand that players felt that way about WvW.

Also, there were some good points made about improving the monthly achievement by adding choices that players can pursue certain areas that they enjoy instead of having a set-in-stone list of things they must do.

I have no problem with Fractals being in the game and I am glad that certain players enjoy them. I don’t.

Fotm have the best rewards, the best gear drops and yet again they are required for the monthly achievement.

I’d rather be able to choose what I want to do for the monthly reward than having Fractals shoved down my throat again…and having many other areas of the game neglected by Anet. (including bugs that have been around since beta).

Zombie.2310:

WvW is easy. WvW has been on the Monthly ever since pre-release! But Fractals? Twice in a row? OH NOEZ!!!!! They drive people into only one part!!!!
Seriously, if you complain about one aspect beeing in the monthly twice, complain the same amount about the other aspect, that has been there ever since the beginning. EVERY MONTH. Without fail. It’s pissing me off now especially, since there is a PvP monthly as well! I get that there are a lot of NPCs in WvW. And it’s not like sPvP or tPvP. It’s like a miyx between PvP and PvE. BUT: the monthly requires me to kill players which is definately a PvP aspect in the PvP Monthly. If you ask me, the aspect that belongs the least in the PvE monthly, I’d say WvW kills without hesitating.

The fractals are new. They have been included in the monthly twice so far. Maybe they add salvage or xp without dying or events next month. But right now they want to put the emphasis on that shiny new toy they have. Buy a kid a new toy and it’ll ignore all it’s existing toys for some time to play with the new toy. Same here.

Yeah it is difficult to find a group for fractals if you have a low level toon. But it is difficult to kill stuff in WvW with a low level toon as well! Only you BASE STATS get lifted. You still have crappy gear. You lack bonuses from traits. heck you might even lack utility or elite skills! A lvl 10 tool in WvW has a hard time! And WvW also depends on the amount of people currently doing WvW. If there are only very few people of your server on at the time you are on and lots of people from the other two servers…

I remember trying WvW last month. After a lot of frustration and a high rep bill I asked my boyfriend to do it for me. And it’s not like it’ll be any different this month! The map is the same. THE EXACT SAME! It never changes. At least I get to see different fractals. Those who don’t like fractals and dungeons and prefer PvP stuff can do the monthly PvP. To me, WvW kills belong in that one, not in the normal, PvE monthly.

WvW is PvE content. That’s ArenaNet’s stance on it, and frankly I agree. The majority of WvW objectives involve laying siege to buildings and smacking around NPC’s. Players play a small role in it outside of zergs. The other players may as well be a wall of Risen at that point.

go one step further,
remove fractals all together

The difference is WvW does not require you to get a group and you can get the monthly achievement done in about 30 mins.

I definitely agree with the second poster that WvW kills need to be off the list for the monthly. 7 Fractals is no big deal, they take a lot less time and are much more rewarding than getting 50 WvW kills. You don’t have to like all the monthly objectives, chances are than in a non “holiday” month at least one or two of the monthly objectives ill annoy most players, but you either push through it or you don’t.

Hobocop.1508:

What are you on about with the monthly not rewarding players doing a variety of things? Only 1/4 of the monthly objectives is fractal runs, the others are WvW kills and things related to seasonal events or content patches.

The WvW kills makes the least sense since that is really a PvP objective. That should have been removed along ago, there was big enough stink raised several months ago about it.

Kerithlan.1659:

WvW is PvE content. That’s ArenaNet’s stance on it, and frankly I agree. The majority of WvW objectives involve laying siege to buildings and smacking around NPC’s. Players play a small role in it outside of zergs. The other players may as well be a wall of Risen at that point.

Except a wall of risen is a lot easier to kill than players. And ArenaNet does not tell me to siege buildings or shove around NOCs. It tells me to kill players.
So I, as a player will be fighting versus other players.

Zombie.2310:

Kerithlan.1659:

WvW is PvE content. That’s ArenaNet’s stance on it, and frankly I agree. The majority of WvW objectives involve laying siege to buildings and smacking around NPC’s. Players play a small role in it outside of zergs. The other players may as well be a wall of Risen at that point.

Except a wall of risen is a lot easier to kill than players. And ArenaNet does not tell me to siege buildings or shove around NOCs. It tells me to kill players.
So I, as a player will be fighting versus other players.

How does any of that change what the objective of world vs world is? The objective is to hold points on the map using siege equipment. It’s PvP in the same way that driving a car makes you a circuit racer. The fact that other players are involved is almost irrelevant. You’ll get your 50 kills by sitting on a cannon and firing into a zerg. That is hardly a PvP experience.

Kerithlan.1659:

Zombie.2310:

Kerithlan.1659:

WvW is PvE content. That’s ArenaNet’s stance on it, and frankly I agree. The majority of WvW objectives involve laying siege to buildings and smacking around NPC’s. Players play a small role in it outside of zergs. The other players may as well be a wall of Risen at that point.

Except a wall of risen is a lot easier to kill than players. And ArenaNet does not tell me to siege buildings or shove around NOCs. It tells me to kill players.
So I, as a player will be fighting versus other players.

How does any of that change what the objective of world vs world is? The objective is to hold points on the map using siege equipment. It’s PvP in the same way that driving a car makes you a circuit racer. The fact that other players are involved is almost irrelevant. You’ll get your 50 kills by sitting on a cannon and firing into a zerg. That is hardly a PvP experience.

PvP means Player versus Player, right?
Now if I, as a player, fight another player, I’m fighting Player versus Player, right?
Whether I use my own skills or a cannon does not matter. If I remember correctly, there is a trebuchet or something the like in sPvP. That trebuchet can be used to fire at people too!
And it doesn’t matter what the objective of WvW are. What matters is the fact, that for my Monthly Achievement I need to kill players. Thus I need to engage in a PvP activity, since I am fighting Player versus Player, which is the meaning of PvP.

Zombie.2310:

Kerithlan.1659:

Zombie.2310:

Kerithlan.1659:

WvW is PvE content. That’s ArenaNet’s stance on it, and frankly I agree. The majority of WvW objectives involve laying siege to buildings and smacking around NPC’s. Players play a small role in it outside of zergs. The other players may as well be a wall of Risen at that point.

Except a wall of risen is a lot easier to kill than players. And ArenaNet does not tell me to siege buildings or shove around NOCs. It tells me to kill players.
So I, as a player will be fighting versus other players.

How does any of that change what the objective of world vs world is? The objective is to hold points on the map using siege equipment. It’s PvP in the same way that driving a car makes you a circuit racer. The fact that other players are involved is almost irrelevant. You’ll get your 50 kills by sitting on a cannon and firing into a zerg. That is hardly a PvP experience.

PvP means Player versus Player, right?
Now if I, as a player, fight another player, I’m fighting Player versus Player, right?
Whether I use my own skills or a cannon does not matter. If I remember correctly, there is a trebuchet or something the like in sPvP. That trebuchet can be used to fire at people too!
And it doesn’t matter what the objective of WvW are. What matters is the fact, that for my Monthly Achievement I need to kill players. Thus I need to engage in a PvP activity, since I am fighting Player versus Player, which is the meaning of PvP.

You can disagree and try to be obtusely literal all you want, but it doesn’t change the fact that WvW is about placing siege at a wall, hitting 1-3 for a while, and then killing an NPC.

I can see that and understand that. ArenaNet can see that and understand that (probably because they designed it to be that way). Focusing on a single, narrow facet of WvW (killing players) and calling it what it isn’t (a form of intolerable, evil PvP) is as wrong as declaring a traffic jam to be a slow-motion drag race because there are cars moving forward without turning.

Keep on lecturing though, you’re starting to go in circles. I’ll crack soon, I’m sure of it!

Edit: To clarify it for you: world vs world can be translated to mean siege versus wall, or alternatively as player versus environment. You can’t capture anything in world versus world without killing NPCs, and with the exception of camps and sentries you must use siege equipment to break down walls and gates in order to do that.

Players honestly play a very small role beyond moving siege around. Have you played any extensive world vs world?

Chorel.1720:

Please remove WvW kills from the monthly then. Not interested in doing it.

You don’t HAVE to do the monthly.

plz do it. wvw sucks.

well, like he said, anet wont change gw2 monthly because YOU dont like it. nor because I dont like it. WvW is the most boring mass “pvp” ever done in MMO history, but I do my 50 world kills for monthly. I do because I want the monthly, not because I need it.

Same for fractals: if you dont like them, dont do monthly or do only for monthly.

Kerithlan.1659:

Have you played any extensive world vs world?

Makes me wonder if you have especially if you never did pvp in it. And how do you suggest one gets 50 player kills without killing players? Just curious.

For all those who say that getting the Wv3 kills is easy, please transfer to Henge of Denravi. You can then enjoy skirting the edge of the invulnerable zone, while 3-6 on your side try to get kills on the 10-30 opponents. I’ve had teeth pulled that was more enjoyable than getting 50 kills that way.

Seriously, though, the Wv3 thing being easier is very much a function of what server you are on, and what servers you are facing. HoD was easy in month 1 when we had the Titan Alliance and out-numbered the other servers. Now, not so much.

As to FotM: two months with it included is a done deal. Hopefully the achievement will focus on something else in January. I didn’t get the monthly for the first time last month, not likely to this. As others have said, let’s focus on things that people are not going to be doing anyway. 5 Temple clears, anyone?

TWMagimay.9057:

Kerithlan.1659:

Have you played any extensive world vs world?

Makes me wonder if you have especially if you never did pvp in it. And how do you suggest one gets 50 player kills without killing players? Just curious.

I never said that I’ve never pvp’d in wvw. I’ve only stated why wvw isn’t inherently a pvp endeavor. It is a pve one and as such is categorized as pve. You can go duel players all you want in the jumping puzzle or by random chance, sure, but that is in no way the primary purpose of wvw. World vs World is about killing NPCs and earning crafting bonuses for your world.

You can get your 50 kills by spamming any aoe weapon while barreling along in a zerg. You cannot seriously tell me that random tagging where you’ve barely done anything (because 30 other people also hit 1 at the same time) is in any way a serious, compelling, or even competitive form of pvp.

It’s literally no different than joining an event zerg in Straits of Devastation at that stage. If you hate zerging then sure yeah whatever, but otherwise this is the most mind-boggling attempt at “boo! pvp! grr!” flaming that I’ve ever seen.

Kerithlan.1659:

TWMagimay.9057:

Kerithlan.1659:

Have you played any extensive world vs world?

Makes me wonder if you have especially if you never did pvp in it. And how do you suggest one gets 50 player kills without killing players? Just curious.

I never said that I’ve never pvp’d in wvw. I’ve only stated why wvw isn’t inherently a pvp endeavor. It is a pve one and as such is categorized as pve. You can go duel players all you want in the jumping puzzle or by random chance, sure, but that is in no way the primary purpose of wvw. World vs World is about killing NPCs and earning crafting bonuses for your world.

You can get your 50 kills by spamming any aoe weapon while barreling along in a zerg. You cannot seriously tell me that random tagging where you’ve barely done anything (because 30 other people also hit 1 at the same time) is in any way a serious, compelling, or even competitive form of pvp.

It’s literally no different than joining an event zerg in Straits of Devastation at that stage. If you hate zerging then sure yeah whatever, but otherwise this is the most mind-boggling attempt at “boo! pvp! grr!” flaming that I’ve ever seen.

But killing NPCs does not fulfill the 50 kills. I’m not against PvP. But I don’t want to play PvP. There is a monthly PvP for all those that do enjoy fighting other players.
Kill 50 NPCs would be a PvE-themed WvW Monthly requirement. But it is 50 world invaders, players, that I need to kill. That’s PvP for me. And belongs to the PvP monthly and not the PvE monthly.

I’m glad to see that I am not the only person that feels this way.
I have yet to complete a monthly because I have no interest in doing WvWvW and the time required to do it was just too much for me to be bothered. I have so many other goals and things that I do that I enjoy that I find it VERY annoying that I cant get that achievement because I am FORCED into an area of the game I am not interested in.

I’m sure it was the same for the PvP crowd until they added the PvP monthly.

As to the Fractals thing, its actually annoying. I do a lot of dungeon runs and to get a group for even the popular dungeons has gone from a few minutes to if a bit unlucky an hour to get a group and it is because of Fractals. All I see in LA is Fractals this and Fractals that. It has actually put me completely off it and I have no interest in doing them.

As a lot of people have suggested a bigger list of achievements should be available that will not FORCE you to do things you don’t want to do.

Kerithlan.1659:

I never said that I’ve never pvp’d in wvw. I’ve only stated why wvw isn’t inherently a pvp endeavor. It is a pve one and as such is categorized as pve. You can go duel players all you want in the jumping puzzle or by random chance, sure, but that is in no way the primary purpose of wvw. World vs World is about killing NPCs and earning crafting bonuses for your world.

But the monthly achievement, ya know, that thing we are discussin gin this topic, is not. It’s about killing players.

You can get your 50 kills by spamming any aoe weapon while barreling along in a zerg. You cannot seriously tell me that random tagging where you’ve barely done anything (because 30 other people also hit 1 at the same time) is in any way a serious, compelling, or even competitive form of pvp.

Because, obviously, you’ve done so much WvWvW that you think everybody can get on any siege weapon at any time they like. From what I’ve seen, there are usually 4-5 weapons and 40-50 people who want a piece of it. But I do have to agree that WvWvW is one of the worst mass pvp events I’ve ever seen. Which doesn’t make it any easier for strictly pve players to want to join in.

[quute]It’s literally no different than joining an event zerg in Straits of Devastation at that stage. If you hate zerging then sure yeah whatever, but otherwise this is the most mind-boggling attempt at “boo! pvp! grr!” flaming that I’ve ever seen.[/quote]

Yes, it actually is different. If it weren’t, I’d be geting the kills in SoD, wouldn’t I?
So, our dislike of WvWvW is “mind-bogging” because…you don’t share it? For you it’s just like pve. For us it’s just like pvp. Same way I can say fotm is just like WvWvW. You get zerged by enemies and zerg them in return. Which would make this topic entirely pointless, because apparently, everything in the game is just like everything else thus people shouldn;t complain about any part of the monthly achievement, right?

I have only completed the monthly achievement once; that was my choice. I refused to destroy a source of income, while spending money to obtain salvage kits, in order to achieve the salvage achievement. Drops were never that good to warrant the loss of income.

I can tolerate WvW, but I am not a PvPer, so I don’t enjoy the forced aspect of killing other players in order to achieve this, if this were truly a PvE achievement then every kill should count whether it was a NPC, player, or animal found in WvW. The ability to obtain kills is dependent on too many variables; the time you are playing, the servers you are battling, the time you have to put into it, and the number of players (on each side) to name a few.

Suggesting how much time it takes to complete the objective is pointless, since everyone’s skills and time available are different. For me, it takes several hours of playtime to complete. On my server, if I play during the day on a weekday, it can be a painful experience to get a kill. If I play on the weekend or at night, it can be easier to get kills.

Suggesting that you can obtain numerous kills by using a siege weapon is also dependent on many factors. People who are playing WvW only for the monthly achievement are unlikely to have the blueprints to make the weapons. It takes a considerable amount of supplies to build the weapons, which requires additional people with supplies or you have to deplete the keeps supplies by running back and forth to build said weapon. If it is your weapon, then you have the choice to seize control at any time. If it is someone else’s weapon, they can seize control at any time. The weapons disappear after a short duration, so you really can’t just camp there and get kill after kill. They can be destroyed pretty easily. And for non-WvWers selecting the right keep to defend can make a difference. You can man a weapon all day long and never see a single person. Again, I don’t have a major issue getting this done, but for me it is not that enjoyable.

As far as fractals are concerned, I hate them. I do not like being forced to play something that is seriously flawed. The fractals can take an enormous amount of time to complete; the DC issue makes it impossible to obtain credit for completing the fractal you were running, so additional time must be added, since you have to start all over again. The remaining team either continues on without you or goes back to the beginning and all the time spent on that fractal is lost. Everyone’s experience is different; some may breeze through these and think this is a non-issue. Others suffer through them and find this an unpleasant experience they do not wish to repeat. Being forced to do them when they are bugged is just wrong in my opinion.
I would prefer that fractals be coupled with dungeons, since they are just another form of dungeon. Then you can do any combination and get credit for the achievement. If ANet is determined to force people to do dungeons in order to get the monthly achievement, then I think this would be the best option. Though others will still find this unacceptable, since it forces you to team up and that has its own inherent difficulties.

I agree with the others who suggest that players should be given a variety of options. The PvP daily and monthly seems more in tune with PvPers objectives. The daily is more PvEer oriented, but the monthly, as is, is not. It should still be a challenge to achieve, but it should be a natural progression of PvE. I would prefer to have objectives dealing with DEs, boss fights, number of champions/veterans bested (bosses, champions, and veterans in dungeons or personal stories would count), crafting & gathering (possible higher end items). Then maybe the maps wouldn’t be so empty when exploring.

Yes, it is ultimately my decision whether I choose to complete the monthly or not; in the past, the rewards for the monthly weren’t that desirable, so the choice was easier. The rewards are a little better now; so I suck it up and complete the objectives even though I am wasting hours playing aspects of the game that I don’t enjoy. No, you will never please everyone, but you will get closer, by presenting sufficient options. Does this make the programming more challenging, of course. If it is ANet’s goal to skew numbers for fractals, dungeons, special events, or WvW so that those aspects of the game seem to have better participation then nothing will change.

OH
NO
SHE
DIDN’T

(this thread was from last month)

It’s level 1 and level 2 fractals. Come the hell on. A party of level 20’s could do it.

Just try it. Its actually quite fun and the loot isn’t bad at all. It also doesn’t really take too long once you are familiar with the fractal.