Guild Wars 2

Core-Message:
Invisible Walls are more immersion-breaking than unfinished terrain.

My recent Experience with Invisible Walls and Exploring

When i started to play GW2 over a year ago i was amazed to see how much you can climb on things and even more amazed to sometimes find something in the remote hard to reach places.

For the past year i have often roamed the land just climbing on stuff and enjoying the view but over time this got harder and harder because i ran into Invisible Walls more and more when i really shouldn’t.

I include a screen-short of the most recent Wall that made me Alt+F4 and come to the Forum to write this post. It is in Kessex Hills, i believe this particular one was here from the start of the game but countless others were not. As you see the Terrain before me is flatter than the one behind me, still i can run up the first part but then i hit the Invisible Wall. What makes this even more frustrating is that the hill in question is in the middle of the map and i believe you can even see the whole top-surface of the hill if you add up all the points where you run into a wall just before you reach the top plateau.

Why Invisible Walls are not ‘a’ but ‘many’ problems ^^

1.) Jumping Puzzles and actual hidden stuff

Every time i run into a Invisible Wall when i just want to look behind an interesting looking edge or a tree or just a small bump discouraged from trying it ever again. Had i started the game in the state it is now i would never have found any of the secrets because i would have stopped bothering after a few attempts.

2.) Death from misconception

I have already died a few times from thinking i can escape/pass by mobs (or evade attacks) when i take a certain path just to be locked in by a semi-circle of Invisible Walls.

Other times i thought i can just jump to a ledge and continue my way on the path on the other side just to be redirected/stopped mid-air and fall to my death.

While you (and i) should not pity the death of my character, this does serve to show bad game-design because you discourage behavior that is needed in other parts of the game. (because thankfully this game is not only about doing damage but also about surviving and dodging)

3.) Reduction of content

I am certain i am not the only player that has spent hours roaming the game to find nice views, find secrets or just for the feeling of achievement from climbing a mountain or building.

This is content that is already in your game that you are taking away from people. To know what some of those Walls feel like just imagine if you would take ascalon catacombs away in the next patch. (for me the best patch ever was the ‘Shadow of the Mad King’ where you added Vexa’s Lab, the tower and many other puzzles to the map)

4.) Immersion

One of the most important things for me in Guild Wars 2 is movement, you can move in combat during most skills, movement is the most important factor in boss-fights (you can defeat most boss-fights with poor DMG but not with poor movement) and there is even rewarded content solely based on movement (jumping puzzles). And movement mostly feels really nice in GW2. When i play my main-character WASD become my character, i can feel lag or being crippled because my middle-finger (on W) immediately ‘feels’ crippled. Movement IS immersion.

Running around as an Asura just feels marvelous. Sometimes i just run around Rata Sum just for the sake of it. (if i was concerned about balance i would say Asura need to be nurfed on the Fun side of things because they just play sooo awesome.. Please don’t do it!!!)

Now when i run into an invisible wall it disconnects me from the game no matter how good my run was before, i open my eyes and i am in my wheelchair in my room again.

Why there is no reason for Invisible Walls to exist

1.) Game-Balance

Apart from PvP and maybe a few places in dungeons (where Invisible Walls are ok BTW) climbing over hard to reach terrain or even those ‘swimming in the sea beneath the map and re-log’-tricks never give you any benefit. If anything most of the times you do reach stuff slower if you choose the path over the mountain. And anyway wouldn’t you say people would deserve a small time-bonus if they use awesome climbing skills while others just ‘Num-’run?

2.) Death by ledge

If you try to save people from ‘death by ledge’, i have to ask: why? We know climbing around can be dangerous and we accept that risk and pay the ‘repair’-price.

3.) (i think this is the big one) Exploration of Unfinished Terrain

I think this is the most common reason why developers do it but i can not figure out why.

If it is not to break the immersion of the players, just think how immersion-breaking it is for the players to run into Invisible Walls. Also while almost only players who actively try to break out of maps (and therefore are cool with it or even feel joy when they find something) see unfinished terrain nearly everyone runs into Invisible Walls from time to time in the current state of the game.

If Invisible Walls exist not to let players see behind the curtain of the game and maybe find unused assets or terrain.

This would either be because devs are ‘ashamed’ of the unfinished work, in which case i would tell you that my best two memories i still have of WoW are a) finally killing Mimiron in Ulduar and b) a 2 hour exploration-session me and 3 of my RL friends had in the bottom half of silithus (basically an instance in its unfinished un-instanced state) after we found a way in.

Or it is because they do not want hints on future patches to be leaked, in which case let me just say that those willing will always find a way, either they find a way to walk on the Invisible Walls or they use programs to hack the game and port around or they just look what is new in the files and look at it without even opening the game.

Summary Arguments

While you developers might think ‘open’ maps and unfinished terrain might make the game feel incomplete i think it makes the game feel open, big and organic while the Invisible Walls not only take away immersion, interrupt gameplay and discourage exploration (one of the core features of this game) they also make it feel small and artificial.

Summary Feelings

Big open worlds no longer feel like wide open plains but like small boxes you are cammed into, because no matter how ‘plainy’ it looks you still feel the walls closing in on you.

If you want to know first hand how i am starting to feel in your game just walk under a beam that is exactly 1cm higher than your head without ducking (if you don’t feel enough try doing it fast). You know you will not hit you head but maaan does it feel bad.

My Hope or Wish

Dear Devs:
Please if possible at least tell us why all these walls have to be there and maybe let us in on the thought-process behind them.

Also i hope you remember that not having invisible walls was one of the most praised features of GW2 over GW1 at launch.

And if by chance anyone of us changes your mind please remove them again if possible ^^ .

Dear Players:

I hope i am not the only one feeling this way, are there any of you that feel the same?

Could you share some exploration stories with me and maybe show me some still reachable Vistas like mountain-tops with nice views and challenging climbs?

Okay… remove invisible walls… and replace them with what?

It’s not feasible to just let people go in any direction forever. There needs to be SOME walls (even in fully persistent open world MMOs there are places you simply can’t go… either zones that are in development or aren’t fully developed or limited by server size and processing).

At some point, you are GOING to hit a wall. That’s not a design issue, that’s simple technological limitations. So you either create visible obstructions everywhere (which break immersion because they’re literally everywhere), or you create invisible walls which allow you more freedom in your boundaries and zone construction (but still break immersion).

The big argument that support invisable walls is possible exploits.
The way the game is designed (technically) is that all terrain is build over an open ocean. the reason is that it happens that you glitch outh of the terrain and end up under the map. the amount of places and bugs where this happen is numerous. Yes, you could say that it is a bug and shouldn’t happen at all, but it does.

further, such a situation causes exploits. almost all objects that doesnt require action (like skillpoints and poi’s) can be explored if you find your way to the ocean (and if detected you get a nice termination of your account).

Your suggestion would make it easier to end up in the ocean, and make it easier to exploit. Also, not going into details here but it would help writers of illegal third party software a lot to make software that help players break the ToS.

So, While I understand your feelings bout invisable walls, the need for them is important, specially cause not everyone is so innocent as you are.

chemiclord.3978:

Okay… remove invisible walls… and replace them with what?

Put a dense bush there, or a tree or a fence, or ANYTHING!

Jolene.7316:

chemiclord.3978:

Okay… remove invisible walls… and replace them with what?

Put a dense bush there, or a tree or a fence, or ANYTHING!

And that works on an open shoreline… how?

And we can’t jump over fences now? Just putting junk in the way just for it to be in the way would be just as jarring and immersion breaking. I get that invisible walls suck (they do)… but I’m not convinced there is a better solution that even a simple majority would find more suitable in every situation.

Put a rock there! A really long one, maybe a cliff face.

Or sharks.

Seriously, there’s no excuse for invisible walls, it’s just lazy mapping.

If there’s an open shore, then let players swim until they get bored or eaten.

chemiclord.3978:

Okay… remove invisible walls… and replace them with what?

It’s not feasible to just let people go in any direction forever. There needs to be SOME walls (even in fully persistent open world MMOs there are places you simply can’t go… either zones that are in development or aren’t fully developed or limited by server size and processing).

I am not talking about zone borders i talk about stuff that is fully inside the map (some hills and buildings for example) you can even walk full circles around those and often even see the complete top surface. but they are walled off.

Zone borders are fine in GW2 it is all unclimbable mountains or walls or ocean currents and behind that is an invisible box and that is alright in my opinion.

mercury ranique.2170:

The big argument that support invisable walls is possible exploits.
The way the game is designed (technically) is that all terrain is build over an open ocean. the reason is that it happens that you glitch outh of the terrain and end up under the map. the amount of places and bugs where this happen is numerous. Yes, you could say that it is a bug and shouldn’t happen at all, but it does.

further, such a situation causes exploits. almost all objects that doesnt require action (like skillpoints and poi’s) can be explored if you find your way to the ocean (and if detected you get a nice termination of your account).

But how do those exploits bring any advantage, if you do the water exploration thing it is just a boring long swim that would be as long or even longer than the running time and you would have to do it a 2nd time anyway because it would not be 100%. So why limit the experience of all because some people can be in places they should not be in without bugs.

mercury ranique.2170:

Also, not going into details here but it would help writers of illegal third party software a lot to make software that help players break the ToS.

but how do places like these help those programs? to my understanding in WoW those people would just program something that ports them around the place and that would happen with or without the places where you can get under the map.

You forgot something : for release, most of the devs were fired, which explains how insanely slow the development of the game is now.
Thus, they can’t find suitable fixes for exploits as they only have some LS guys.
Those guys provide the fixes by using the tools that already exist in the game : add invisible walls or invulnerable ennemies.
So much easier than properly fixing …
Bandaid everywhere and the game will be perfect in the end !

hmm that would also explain the change of attitude after release. the old defs seemed to be ok with the idea of people finding their way to strange places.
the world seemed to be created in a fashion where it gave no benefit to ‘exploit’ and also exploring was encouraged while all the walls i’m running into nowadays seems like playground-police showed up and you are slapped in the face if you don’t use the slides and swings in ‘conformity formation 0012’ and ‘maximum fun body-position 108’.

I used to play a game called Asheron’s Call – really old mmo – there were no walls in this game, you could literally walk from one end of the map to the other and up and down mountains with ease, was awesome!