Guild Wars 2

Too many casual cell phone games have this once a day time gate garbage. PC=/=cell phone

If it’s between RNG and time gated. I’ll take time gated. At least with time gated I know that in 5 days I will be able to get what I want. With RNG if your luck isn’t in you may never get what you’re after.

fellyn.5083:

If it’s between RNG and time gated. I’ll take time gated. At least with time gated I know that in 5 days I will be able to get what I want. With RNG if your luck isn’t in you may never get what you’re after.

It’s okay, GW2 gives you both.

Let’s not confuse dailies with time gated rewards. We had dailies before they gave laurels.

Some people need direction. Loki was right in a sense, we want to be rules, dictated to and lead. Drop us in a world and say “have fun” without a hint of what to do other than bash the nearest “enemy” for xp and loot has limited appeal. We want a goal, an achievable goal in a reasonable period of time. Dailies can give some people that. Others would choose to finish mapping a zone or work on their crafting or speed run dungeons or stalk events. Others may play the TP. However a lot of people need to be suggested a goal, what to work on and where to go, today and that’s what dailies provide.

Now the problem can be when the devs tie a specific reward to dailies because then dailies can seem mandatory. The only thing I really spent laurels on is the puppy, but I still do them daily because maybe someday I would want an ascended item. Just as I forge a charged quartz even though I don’t yet have anything I want to craft that uses them. The quartz, between going to the cliffs to mine and charging one takes 15 minutes tops. The daily another hour if I’m not picky about where I’m doing it (well known zone vs zone I haven’t fully mapped out yet). That’s an hour and a half, counting selling look, that I could have spent on whatever I decided I wanted to do that day.

And that’s the problem in a nut shell. Didn’t care about dailies before laurels, now I’m bound to them because I’m afraid I just might need them someday.

Kruhljak.2705:

I read the above as, “I don’t like daily time-gating.”

That’s it.

Where’s the context? Where’s your Utopian vision of change and how it should be?

What is it you want? Infinite node mining? Infinite quest running? You want to “catch up” if you miss 10 days, so you can mine a node 10 times or run those “dailies” 10 times in one session?

In the words of many a skritt, “What? What? WHAT?”

this is actually a great idea. let me do my week’s worth of farming on saturday!!! rest of the time, let me do what i want.

you are a genius, and you dont even know it!

Galen Grey.4709:

Craptrain.7203:

I agree. The daily mechanic is actually counter-productive for longevity. Instead of people playing for fun, they log in for 30 mins to do their daily, then log out again, having all the satisfaction of a completed chore.

so if there was no daily what would have happened? they’d log for 5 hrs and have the time of their life? doing what? whats in the game exactly for anyone to do that doesnt involve:
killing mobs,
doing dynamic events,
doing group events
killing veterans,
killing champions,
doing dungeons,
doing fractals,
killing enemy players in wvw,
killing aquatic creatures,
gathering,
using conditions,
dodging,
repairing wvw structures
capturing wvw stuff
craft

what possibly could players do for hours that doesnt involve any of this?

if they’re loging in to just do their daily they dont want to play to have fun, they just want their shiny and they’re going to farm whatever stuff that shiny requires. If instead of 20 laurels, ascended gear required ectos people would spend 20 days farming CoF or Fractals or whatever is most profitable per piece they wanted to buy.

The problem isnt the daily, the daily doesnt need you do anything special, just to play for a bit the content you enjoy, the problem is people dont care about content they care about rewards. Nothing the game can do there.

back when i used to log on for dailies, it was kind of annoying, id get most done through normal play but there was usually at least one annoying thing i had to do. But it wasnt that bad, i suppose, still id rather not go kill 25 things underwater, or didnt feel like hunting things in WvW. but i did it anyway because hey, i wanted laurels, and i was already 4/5.

now i barely play, and when i do play i almost never do a daily unless its structured pvp. Thats because in structured you will almost always complete your daily just by doing what you came to do, play structured.

I know what the system is trying to deal with, but it sucks at it. Its so transparent and boring. i mean fractals is a time gate, but its mitigated by personal achievement and actual content.
takes at least 10 runs to get to 10, then you can gamble once per day with a luck breaker of 10 days, people who work hard and achieve harder things can get things much faster.

anyhow log on everday time gates are absolute trash, theres no depth, no challenge, or achievement, or story tied to it. Its way to mechanical.
If it was actually tied to something interesting, it might be more palatable

I agree with the OP. The game does not need this stuff. Give us more freedom to choose the way we like to play the game without the need to grind stuff you need to do, if you want to get certain materials or something like that.

milo.6942:

instead of 1 per day, should be 7 per week
it’s still pretty kittenty, but it’s better

This will be really greate for people that has to work and sometimes cannot login for the daily.

If i have a free day i could push more than 1 day and compensate the previous days i couldnt play because of my job.

GREATE IDEA! +1

Ahkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnatan.1098:

Please don’t let this great game degenerate into a repetitive daily grind, inhabited by nothing but lifeless addicts

Waaaay too late.

In gw1, you could have up to 3 dailies in your quest log at a time. So you really only had to log in every three days. You could also save dailies for a looong time until you felt like doing them. And while it did give some nice things, it wasn’t anything necessary or better equipment and whatnot, although they did have some larger bags and special skins. The rewards were tradable too, so again, not really time gated then.

Of course I started this with the phrase “in gw1” so I guess it’s automatically ignored :p

Craptrain.7203:

You don’t seem to have understood my post at all.

Many people right now log in JUST to do their dailies (sorry, that’s a fact). Because they feel forced to log in (justified or no) builds animosity towards the game and the tasks required for the dailies. If people feel animosity towards a game, they eventually stop playing it (or stop playing and then come to the forums to complain).

People SHOULD be logging in to have fun (I know, foreign concept, right?). But instead of focusing on building content that’s enjoyable and fun, we get content the dangles pixelized carrots. I’d love to see more stimulating content, rather than more reward based content, and I feel it would be much better for the longevity of the game.

I know you’re saying this as some sort of anecdotal point, and I’m sure there is someone who has quit playing because they felt forced to do dailies and didn’t want to. Although, I’d bet they were most likely on a collision course with quitting already.

Anyway, I know I’ve never quit a game that I was logging into every day. Me and many others end up effectively quitting games for just the opposite reason…because we haven’t logged in for a number of days. And then with each passing day it just becomes less likely we’ll do so again.

The best point you make is that people should be playing for fun, but this just leads to the conclusion that dailies, like everything else, should be fun. A test that something like a daily harvesting node at a set location is never going to meet. Thus, while completely insignificant to do, something like it should probably never exist over any time frame.

I know some days I just log in to do my dailies, but I wouldn’t if I didn’t find the dailies on the whole to be fun.

To the OP’s point: I’d have nothing against dailies not existing, although it’s easy to understand why they’re good for the game even if not for some players. However, anything other than removing dailies, like turning them into cumulative weeklies, would actually be much worse. And removing dailies, has the effect of leaving players behind even faster who play less, unless the game offers no rewards which has other problems.

Inspired.6730:

I know you’re saying this as some sort of anecdotal point, and I’m sure there is someone who has quit playing because they felt forced to do dailies and didn’t want to. Although, I’d bet they were most likely on a collision course with quitting already.

Anyway, I know I’ve never quit a game that I was logging into every day. Me and many others end up effectively quitting games for just the opposite reason…because we haven’t logged in for a number of days. And then with each passing day it just becomes less likely we’ll do so again.

Okay, so that’s you. My personal philosophy is that once a game starts to feel like a job, I’m done with it. Mandating I be there everyday to perform routine mindless tasks in order to receive a certain reward (contrary to being there by choice for fun) seems awfully job-like to me. I’m willing to bet more than a handful of people share my philosophy.

Lostwingman.5034:

Bezayne.6459:

Fully agree with the OP. If they’d move dailies to be weeklies instead that would be a big step forward. That way you could keep AP gain the same as now, with more freedom to each player to do tasks when they got the time / feel like doing them.

As it is now, you have certain dailies pop up only occasionally. Like, do a story dungeon. If you happen to want to do one on that very day, you get rewarded with an AP. Do it any other day of the week – out of luck. That is poor design.

I gotta agree with this poster. If they are time-gating to limit speed grinders and give parity to casuals then there’s still better ways to do it. Daily is inflexible for when situations similar to the above occur.

Any ideas ? Cause I tried thinking of something but I came up empty. Dailies have issues but honestly I cant think of anything better.

Charged crystals. Dont really see any issues there.

Dog.1472:

It is a bad way of forcing people to play the game every day. If they want people to keep playing the game they need to do so with content that is fun and rewarding, not time gated.

I dont get how this type of time gating is supposed to be forcing people to play every day.

So you need 20 laurels to buy an ascended gear piece. That can take you as little as 10 days to get to as much as a year. You’re free to get those 20 laurels when ever you want. It can take you a full year its not a problem. The only reason people feel force is cause they want to get it in the least amount of time possible. If I want to only play during weekend I can do that. it will take me exactly 1 month and 1 week for a piece. But why is that just an issue with dailies and not with everything else?

If I want tier 3 cultural armor it will cost me about 20g a piece. If say I make 2g in a typical gaming session it will take me 10 days to earn enough for one piece. Again that can mean as little as 10 days or as long as a year. If I just play weekends like the example above it will take me 1 month 2 weeks for a single piece.

I dont get it, how is laurels different then gold? If anything laurels is reducing the pressure because if you can play during the week but really cant help yourself cause you just want this piece as soon as possible with the daily its 30 minutes and you’re done. with gold you’ll keep on at it for much longer.

Seems to me its not time gating thats making you play every day, its you who’s making you play every day cause you’re not willing to wait for the reward. Time gate or not thats not going to change.

Craptrain.7203:

Okay, so that’s you. My personal philosophy is that once a game starts to feel like a job, I’m done with it. Mandating I be there everyday to perform routine mindless tasks in order to receive a certain reward (contrary to being there by choice for fun) seems awfully job-like to me. I’m willing to bet more than a handful of people share my philosophy.

I would agree, but I have yet to see a mandate . . . a requirement to be there every day. And so I play when I feel like it, I don’t when I don’t, and I have Minecraft and Catan on tap for those days.

phys.7689:

anyhow log on everday time gates are absolute trash, theres no depth, no challenge, or achievement, or story tied to it. Its way to mechanical.
If it was actually tied to something interesting, it might be more palatable

I agree with this but whats the alternative?

This isn’t being done to provide an awesome experience. This being done to avoid grind.
20 days of daily you can easily do without much effort. killing 25 aquatic things isnt exactly enjoyable (though it is with an engineer using grenades… dont know but once i tried that class / weapon combination it really became enjoyable you might want to try it ) is a lot less grind / boring then if I had to get 20 days worth of gold or karma

I agree. This time gating and content stretching via anti-farm (aka DR) is pretty dumb.

From my point of view, they do this to keep players playing the game, so you log in daily and do stuff instead of just log in on weekends and farm the hell out of it.

I’d like to play the game at my own pace. I don’t feel like playing gw2 lately but I would (if I could) farm the hell out of stuff on weekends. Sadly I can’t, because it’s either time gated and anti-farm kicks in or the drops are totally nerfed. Which leaves me only CoF p1 farm, which becomes boring pretty quickly.

Why can’t we play gw2 as we like? We were promised that aren’t we?

Grileenor.1497:

I agree with the OP. The game does not need this stuff. Give us more freedom to choose the way we like to play the game without the need to grind stuff you need to do, if you want to get certain materials or something like that.

Honestly I think this is exactly what dailies are doing. You can get the daily done in so many ways that do have the freedom to choose the way you want to play.

If on the other hand they charged 20 days worth of gold (and here they’d have the problem of deciding whats 20 days worth of gold ? you want ascended armor to last as long and possible so you’d have to choose 20 days worth of gold for a hardcore farmer which will be a lot! ) or 20 days worth of karma or 20 days worth of ecto etc… Honest I think with this you’d have a lot less freedom to play the way you want.

If today I feel like WvW… thats getting the daily done. If today I feel like a dungeon.. its getting the daily done. If today I feel like starting an alt and doing dynamic events in a starter zone… thats getting the daily done etc…

If on the other hand instead of 20 laurels to get a single ascended piece I had to get 1020 ectos (this is the number I came up with of what 20 days of ecto would look like. working is as follows. There are people who play 8hrs in a day. those who farm can get 4 rares in an hour easily. Thats 32 rares per day. at 1.6 ecto per rare thats 51 ectos multiplied by 20 = 1020 ectos) what would my freedom be? I am not going to get 4 rares per hour doing WvW… I am not getting 4 rares per hour starting a new alt. I am not going to get 4 rares per hour doing dynamic events ….

I think people are missunderstanding what dailies really does to their freedom, it doesnt take it away, it creates it!

Galen Grey.4709:

If today I feel like WvW… thats getting the daily done. If today I feel like a dungeon.. its getting the daily done. If today I feel like starting an alt and doing dynamic events in a starter zone… thats getting the daily done etc…

I think people are missunderstanding what dailies really does to their freedom, it doesnt take it away, it creates it!

What if 3/4 of the options you get for your daily are bad, to you personally? I don’t like WvW (And Gandara is bad at it anyway so fat chance of getting it done in a timely manner), I don’t like dungeons due to their shoddy design and elitist PUGs and I don’t exactly like making alts simply because certain parts of the game punish you for diverting your time over multiple characters.

The only freedom I currently have is whether or not to do my daily at all and more often than not I don’t care enough to log in and do it.

Time gating makes sense in a game that has traditional subscription fees since you want people to play as often as possible. It doesn’t make sense in a game like GW2 where 80% of your income comes from 5% of the player base (“Whales” that buy everything on the TP asap).

Arimahn.3568:

What if 3/4 of the options you get for your daily are bad, to you personally?

I don’t do them, and find something else to do if I feel like playing. Or I push the daily effort to the next day. Seriously, I don’t need to do every day’s Daily. Then again, I realize I am a complete moron about chasing the carrot since I don’t do it if I’m not after making carrot cake the next day.

Arimahn.3568:

Time gating makes sense in a game that has traditional subscription fees since you want people to play as often as possible. It doesn’t make sense in a game like GW2 where 80% of your income comes from 5% of the player base (“Whales” that buy everything on the TP asap).

Just wanted to pop in and remind everyone that gw2 is actually very similar to subscription games. They make most of their money now from the gemstore. It’s simple business marketing math, whatever your sales are you can increase them by getting more people to view your products more often. Ergo, gw2 has a very strong interest in getting people to come back as often as possible.

In my own related opinion: I believe many things in this game are strongly influenced by the gemstore. They are pumping out content as fast as they can in an effort to keep maximum engagement from players. Overall it is a positive trend, but anet needs to weigh their own profits vs what players want, and not get caught up in looking only at what produces the most $$$.

Galen Grey.4709:

Any ideas ? Cause I tried thinking of something but I came up empty. Dailies have issues but honestly I cant think of anything better.

Stop rewarding effortless tasks and ‘time-spent’, start rewarding skilled play over challenging situations. Tall order for a big problem.

Galen Grey.4709:

Grileenor.1497:

I agree with the OP. The game does not need this stuff. Give us more freedom to choose the way we like to play the game without the need to grind stuff you need to do, if you want to get certain materials or something like that.

Honestly I think this is exactly what dailies are doing. You can get the daily done in so many ways that do have the freedom to choose the way you want to play.
….

I think people are missunderstanding what dailies really does to their freedom, it doesnt take it away, it creates it!

You are missing an important point there. With rewards being given for AP, people want to achieve the most AP possible. This is also reinforced by having AP leader boards, thus Anet is giving even more importance to this AP-hunt. Wether you personally buy into this specific game design is not deciding, a lot of people do and feel unhappy due to it.

What is being suggested here multiple times is to provide more freedom in getting those time-gated APs, by moving dailies to be weeklies. Also to get rid of menial tasks like mine a certain node once per day. The most annoying about it is not the mining, it is each day you have to suffer multiple slow loading screens to even get to that node in the first place, with nothing else to do in that area. Let me mine it once per week seven times at once, and I will feel a lot less annoyed about it.

In the end it is about a good gaming experience, and providing options to please various tastes / needs is always a Good Thing™.

milo.6942:

Arimahn.3568:

Time gating makes sense in a game that has traditional subscription fees since you want people to play as often as possible. It doesn’t make sense in a game like GW2 where 80% of your income comes from 5% of the player base (“Whales” that buy everything on the TP asap).

Just wanted to pop in and remind everyone that gw2 is actually very similar to subscription games. They make most of their money now from the gemstore. It’s simple business marketing math, whatever your sales are you can increase them by getting more people to view your products more often. Ergo, gw2 has a very strong interest in getting people to come back as often as possible.

In my own related opinion: I believe many things in this game are strongly influenced by the gemstore. They are pumping out content as fast as they can in an effort to keep maximum engagement from players. Overall it is a positive trend, but anet needs to weigh their own profits vs what players want, and not get caught up in looking only at what produces the most $$$.

They apparently make enough money to not need a paid expansion like they did with GW1, so…

Again though: The most income is generated by the fewest players. It really doesn’t matter if the rest logs in regularly or not. In fact, I would suspect that fewer logins per day puts less strain on their servers which keeps cost down.

Bezayne.6459:

You are missing an important point there. With rewards being given for AP, people want to achieve the most AP possible. This is also reinforced by having AP leader boards, thus Anet is giving even more importance to this AP-hunt. Wether you personally buy into this specific game design is not deciding, a lot of people do and feel unhappy due to it.

Wasn’t “leaderboards” something that kept getting asked for for a long time by the players? I mean, if they asked for it and we got given it, isn’t it kind of our own fault the Leaderboards exist?

And a mild philosophical point . . . if you subject yourself to being unhappy to chase something which doesn’t affect anything (Leaderboards), when does it start being your own fault?

Yes, there’s some rewards for doing the achievements and some useful stuff you can get through them. But there’s only a fraction of those which actually do anything substantial.

It’s a tad heartless, but there comes a time in every MMO where you realize you’re not going to have everything, and you should just focus on what you really want first. Then use your leftover time to broaden out.

What is being suggested here multiple times is to provide more freedom in getting those time-gated APs, by moving dailies to be weeklies. Also to get rid of menial tasks like mine a certain node once per day. The most annoying about it is not the mining, it is each day you have to suffer multiple slow loading screens to even get to that node in the first place, with nothing else to do in that area. Let me mine it once per week seven times at once, and I will feel a lot less annoyed about it.

In the end it is about a good gaming experience, and providing options to please various tastes / needs is always a Good Thing™.

I’m not sure it would help if “Daily” was changed to “Weekly”, because I’m almost certain we’d be visiting this conversation again anyway. Also, the menial tasks of mining, I think, you mean the Home Instance quartz node? Yeah, I don’t know if it’s stil llike this . . . but the Quartz is only good for one thing in the end: Celestial Gear, which I seem to recall nobody really liking so far as for statistics in the past.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Wasn’t “leaderboards” something that kept getting asked for for a long time by the players? I mean, if they asked for it and we got given it, isn’t it kind of our own fault the Leaderboards exist?

The people asking for it in the first place may not neccesarily be the same now looking at it and feeling urged on to earn more points.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I’m not sure it would help if “Daily” was changed to “Weekly”, because I’m almost certain we’d be visiting this conversation again anyway. Also, the menial tasks of mining, I think, you mean the Home Instance quartz node? Yeah, I don’t know if it’s stil llike this . . . but the Quartz is only good for one thing in the end: Celestial Gear, which I seem to recall nobody really liking so far as for statistics in the past.

I dare say moving dailies to weeklies would alleviate the problem for about 99% of the players – certainly you’ll end up with some arguing their holiday takes longer than 6 days, but as you say, at some point you have to accept you can’t get it all.

About the quartz and celestial, sure, right now not many people care too much. That will change if the same mechanic is used once ascended crafting arrives, which looks likely as of now. I personally would be really annoyed if I then have to mine a certain node, harvest a certain plant and fell a certain tree once per day every day for a month to craft one item. Instead of going on a gathering spree on a lazy sunday afternoon to get materials.

My point of view is always at first at the game design and what it – intentionally or not – encourages the players to do. The first responsibility (and interest) is of the game designers to make their game good and enjoyable. Don’t move that to the players because the designers have failed.

Bezayne.6459:

About the quartz and celestial, sure, right now not many people care too much. That will change if the same mechanic is used once ascended crafting arrives, which looks likely as of now. I personally would be really annoyed if I then have to mine a certain node, harvest a certain plant and fell a certain tree once per day every day for a month to craft one item. Instead of going on a gathering spree on a lazy sunday afternoon to get materials.

Yeah, but I can only argue cases sincerely (or will only argue cases sincerely) for things which are present now. I can speculate as much as the next guy . . .

. . . no, wait. Scratch that. I might speculate as much as the next guy, but in this case I can only wait and see what comes up. From what I can . . . intuit, the implication seems to be the new materials are taken to a Place of Power (Commune Skill Points) to be infused with energy and ‘charged’. I’m not sure but if it turns out to be Fine materials or Rare materials into the next step? Oh boy it could be worse.

Unless these are the materials dropped off Champions, in which case you’re not going to be stuck mining a node once a day, you’ll have a Champion to kill. Which, if Queensdale or recent experiences with “Champion Slayer” being on the Monthly is any indication, means you might see people actively hunting Champions.

It speculative, but it’s what I’m expecting.

My point of view is always at first at the game design and what it – intentionally or not – encourages the players to do. The first responsibility (and interest) is of the game designers to make their game good and enjoyable. Don’t move that to the players because the designers have failed.

I would rather game designers make the game they want to make first rather than focus on making it “enjoyable for as many as possible” first. I’ve enjoyed games which were made by the former much more often than ones made by the latter.

I get where you’re coming from, but . . . just because a player can do something, or chooses a challenge, I don’t want to first lay responsibility on the designers. If someone wants to self-limit to a naked charr thief who never purchases skills or traits, I don’t expect the designers to have him/her/it in mind when they balance things, if you catch my drift. Similarly, if a player isn’t going to be happy without being #1 on a leaderboard, I’m not going to say that’s the designer’s fault.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I would rather game designers make the game they want to make first rather than focus on making it “enjoyable for as many as possible” first. I’ve enjoyed games which were made by the former much more often than ones made by the latter.

I am with you on that one and have left a game before where the designers tried to cater to the most common denominator. I’s sure you can guess which one I am referring to here. But being required to perform a menial task on a daily basis is probably not what draws you to GW2 in the first place, right? So why not make it more palatable by not having it as a daily?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I get where you’re coming from, but . . . just because a player can do something, or chooses a challenge, I don’t want to first lay responsibility on the designers. If someone wants to self-limit to a naked charr thief who never purchases skills or traits, I don’t expect the designers to have him/her/it in mind when they balance things, if you catch my drift. Similarly, if a player isn’t going to be happy without being #1 on a leaderboard, I’m not going to say that’s the designer’s fault.

I would not argue that the current game is generally encouraging people to pick naked charr thieves as their main character – you will always have special birds finding their niche in gameplay, but I am not concerned about those. I am concerned about reward systems in the game encouraging people to play in a way they actually do not enjoy. Leaving the player with the option to ignore the system (and lose out on rewards) or follow it. Resulting in a loss of gaming “happyness” either way. Thus the system is to blame, not the player.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Craptrain.7203:

Okay, so that’s you. My personal philosophy is that once a game starts to feel like a job, I’m done with it. Mandating I be there everyday to perform routine mindless tasks in order to receive a certain reward (contrary to being there by choice for fun) seems awfully job-like to me. I’m willing to bet more than a handful of people share my philosophy.

I would agree, but I have yet to see a mandate . . . a requirement to be there every day.

You seem to have missed the second half of that sentence. You know, the part where I said “… in order to receive a certain reward.” Yeah sure, no one is forcing you to play every day, but very day you miss is a laurel you lose out on, APs you lose out on, quartz nodes you lose out on, etc.

Bezayne.6459:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I would rather game designers make the game they want to make first rather than focus on making it “enjoyable for as many as possible” first. I’ve enjoyed games which were made by the former much more often than ones made by the latter.

I am with you on that one and have left a game before where the designers tried to cater to the most common denominator. I’s sure you can guess which one I am referring to here. But being required to perform a menial task on a daily basis is probably not what draws you to GW2 in the first place, right? So why not make it more palatable by not having it as a daily?

I’m going to guess Ultima Online.

Anyway, it’s not about the palatable. I said, or at least someone did maybe I just quoted . . . about why the Daily exists. It’s so we get people doing things and we don’t have new people, or the constant players logging in and not being able to do anything because there’s not enough people. It’s intended so there’s always someone in Kryta/Ascalon/Maguuma when that Champion you can’t solo is up so you can take care of it. So you don’t have to worry about trying to solo the Shatterer because nobody wants to take it on.

Incredibly (sarcasm warning) it’s very rare these attempts work as intended. Trying to do that for players is like teaching a cat to sing or teaching a pig to dance. It won’t be good if you manage it, and it annoys everyone involved.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I get where you’re coming from, but . . . just because a player can do something, or chooses a challenge, I don’t want to first lay responsibility on the designers. If someone wants to self-limit to a naked charr thief who never purchases skills or traits, I don’t expect the designers to have him/her/it in mind when they balance things, if you catch my drift. Similarly, if a player isn’t going to be happy without being #1 on a leaderboard, I’m not going to say that’s the designer’s fault.

I would not argue that the current game is generally encouraging people to pick naked charr thieves as their main character – you will always have special birds finding their niche in gameplay, but I am not concerned about those. I am concerned about reward systems in the game encouraging people to play in a way they actually do not enjoy. Leaving the player with the option to ignore the system (and lose out on rewards) or follow it. Resulting in a loss of gaming “happyness” either way. Thus the system is to blame, not the player.

I’m not arguing that either, merely pointing out that there is a point where we have to start going “maybe it really is the players’ habits” instead of “the designer made me do it”. (The MMO form of “the devil made me do it” which is just as amusing as it is otherwise.)

It’s been stated, also, why the Daily and such offer things which “suck” or are uninteresting – they want players to think about trying them rather than writing it off. Anyway, the system now is what people asked for, begged for, back in the day when Daily was just “X kills, Y variety, Z events, K gathering, yay, get your silver, karma, experience”. Variety? Sure, they got it. Then they wanted choice, and it was given. Now the fact there is a choice is being griped on, and it kind of makes me think there will never be a solution which will make the players happy, and the effort to make this Daily/Monthly rotating choice was a wasted block of time.

So, in short . . . if the system was changed at the behest of players, they should probably shoulder some of the blame. Not all, but some.

Concept of dailies is horrible because not all people realize or want to realize that they do not need to complete dailies in order to enjoy game. Thus starting something like: Game plays you and not you playing game. Quite a lot of people feel like they must complete dailies and it even shows on screen just to remind you of that task. It is lazy developers concept to add high end rewards into game and making sure that players do not get em quickly.

Craptrain.7203:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Craptrain.7203:

Okay, so that’s you. My personal philosophy is that once a game starts to feel like a job, I’m done with it. Mandating I be there everyday to perform routine mindless tasks in order to receive a certain reward (contrary to being there by choice for fun) seems awfully job-like to me. I’m willing to bet more than a handful of people share my philosophy.

I would agree, but I have yet to see a mandate . . . a requirement to be there every day.

You seem to have missed the second half of that sentence. You know, the part where I said “… in order to receive a certain reward.” Yeah sure, no one is forcing you to play every day, but very day you miss is a laurel you lose out on, APs you lose out on, quartz nodes you lose out on, etc.

I didn’t miss the second half of the sentence, I just think the rewards are . . . bluntly, underwhelming and too much importance is placed on them existing at all. It does start with the question “what in the rewards are you needing?” and followed by “why?”.

I’m as serious as they are about this pursuit. If you’re going to attach some level of “requirement” then you need to stop to think about why you feel it’s a requirement, and what it gets you. People bring up operant conditioning, which is why I ask that question all the time of myself: “why?”

And if the answer is “because it’s there”, that’s the cue to step back and reconsider your answer.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Craptrain.7203:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Craptrain.7203:

Okay, so that’s you. My personal philosophy is that once a game starts to feel like a job, I’m done with it. Mandating I be there everyday to perform routine mindless tasks in order to receive a certain reward (contrary to being there by choice for fun) seems awfully job-like to me. I’m willing to bet more than a handful of people share my philosophy.

I would agree, but I have yet to see a mandate . . . a requirement to be there every day.

You seem to have missed the second half of that sentence. You know, the part where I said “… in order to receive a certain reward.” Yeah sure, no one is forcing you to play every day, but very day you miss is a laurel you lose out on, APs you lose out on, quartz nodes you lose out on, etc.

I didn’t miss the second half of the sentence, I just think the rewards are . . . bluntly, underwhelming and too much importance is placed on them existing at all. It does start with the question “what in the rewards are you needing?” and followed by “why?”.

I’m as serious as they are about this pursuit. If you’re going to attach some level of “requirement” then you need to stop to think about why you feel it’s a requirement, and what it gets you. People bring up operant conditioning, which is why I ask that question all the time of myself: “why?”

And if the answer is “because it’s there”, that’s the cue to step back and reconsider your answer.

You’re misinterpreting again. Laurels, APs, quartz nodes become the answer to ’Why did I play today?" The answer to that question should be “fun”.

Arimahn.3568:

Galen Grey.4709:

If today I feel like WvW… thats getting the daily done. If today I feel like a dungeon.. its getting the daily done. If today I feel like starting an alt and doing dynamic events in a starter zone… thats getting the daily done etc…

I think people are missunderstanding what dailies really does to their freedom, it doesnt take it away, it creates it!

What if 3/4 of the options you get for your daily are bad, to you personally? I don’t like WvW (And Gandara is bad at it anyway so fat chance of getting it done in a timely manner), I don’t like dungeons due to their shoddy design and elitist PUGs and I don’t exactly like making alts simply because certain parts of the game punish you for diverting your time over multiple characters.

The only freedom I currently have is whether or not to do my daily at all and more often than not I don’t care enough to log in and do it.

Time gating makes sense in a game that has traditional subscription fees since you want people to play as often as possible. It doesn’t make sense in a game like GW2 where 80% of your income comes from 5% of the player base (“Whales” that buy everything on the TP asap).

I can reply to you better if you tell us what you like rather then what you dont like. I rarely do dungeons and WvW too and have no trouble doing the dailies playing everything else.

as for the sense about time gating is like I said before to make sure there is no need for a new armor tier anytime soon. Some people simply dont care about cosmetic rewards they just want BiS and nothing else. With the time lock to get ascended pieces it guarantees about 180 days per character to spec in ascended gear. If they dont use time lock they still need that 180 days per character else they’d need to keep adding new gear tiers and I am sure people will like that a lot less then they like time gating. To make sure the hardcore of the hardcore players who ascended gear is mostly meant for take 180 days to get all their pieces the requirements if you use non time gated resources would be mind blowing. Casuals would have no way of keeping up! thats the reason in my personal opinion.

Smith.1826:

Galen Grey.4709:

Any ideas ? Cause I tried thinking of something but I came up empty. Dailies have issues but honestly I cant think of anything better.

Stop rewarding effortless tasks and ‘time-spent’, start rewarding skilled play over challenging situations. Tall order for a big problem.

Conceptually you’re right but how can you do that in practice without killing of casuals?

If you remove time gating how can you possibly make it so the hardcore of the hardcore take 20 days to get a single ascended piece without also making it impossible for the casual of the casuals to ever get a single piece?

Craptrain.7203:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Craptrain.7203:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Craptrain.7203:

Okay, so that’s you. My personal philosophy is that once a game starts to feel like a job, I’m done with it. Mandating I be there everyday to perform routine mindless tasks in order to receive a certain reward (contrary to being there by choice for fun) seems awfully job-like to me. I’m willing to bet more than a handful of people share my philosophy.

I would agree, but I have yet to see a mandate . . . a requirement to be there every day.

You seem to have missed the second half of that sentence. You know, the part where I said “… in order to receive a certain reward.” Yeah sure, no one is forcing you to play every day, but very day you miss is a laurel you lose out on, APs you lose out on, quartz nodes you lose out on, etc.

I didn’t miss the second half of the sentence, I just think the rewards are . . . bluntly, underwhelming and too much importance is placed on them existing at all. It does start with the question “what in the rewards are you needing?” and followed by “why?”.

I’m as serious as they are about this pursuit. If you’re going to attach some level of “requirement” then you need to stop to think about why you feel it’s a requirement, and what it gets you. People bring up operant conditioning, which is why I ask that question all the time of myself: “why?”

And if the answer is “because it’s there”, that’s the cue to step back and reconsider your answer.

You’re misinterpreting again. Laurels, APs, quartz nodes become the answer to ’Why did I play today?" The answer to that question should be “fun”.

I may have been misinterpreting, because we agree on that. But when the answer is “Laurels/AP/Quartz/Fuzzy Tails” then I really do want to ask “why do you need those things?”.

Thing is, I find chasing Achievements fun. Oh, not the ones like “1000 Sword kills” or “Kill one million yaks or die of old age” . . . I mean the Explorer category, pretty much. Or the Hero one (“hey, why don’t you try different races/orders?”). I enjoyed much the same on GW1, and left a lot alone.

But I chase them because I read “Find the Forsaken Halls” and go “. . . okay, what the heck is that?”. Because I enjoy trying some . . . SOME . . . of the jumping puzzles. (Mad King’s Clock Tower can go straight to Abaddon though.)

Galen Grey.4709:

Arimahn.3568:

Galen Grey.4709:

If today I feel like WvW… thats getting the daily done. If today I feel like a dungeon.. its getting the daily done. If today I feel like starting an alt and doing dynamic events in a starter zone… thats getting the daily done etc…

I think people are missunderstanding what dailies really does to their freedom, it doesnt take it away, it creates it!

What if 3/4 of the options you get for your daily are bad, to you personally? I don’t like WvW (And Gandara is bad at it anyway so fat chance of getting it done in a timely manner), I don’t like dungeons due to their shoddy design and elitist PUGs and I don’t exactly like making alts simply because certain parts of the game punish you for diverting your time over multiple characters.

The only freedom I currently have is whether or not to do my daily at all and more often than not I don’t care enough to log in and do it.

Time gating makes sense in a game that has traditional subscription fees since you want people to play as often as possible. It doesn’t make sense in a game like GW2 where 80% of your income comes from 5% of the player base (“Whales” that buy everything on the TP asap).

I can reply to you better if you tell us what you like rather then what you dont like. I rarely do dungeons and WvW too and have no trouble doing the dailies playing everything else.

as for the sense about time gating is like I said before to make sure there is no need for a new armor tier anytime soon. Some people simply dont care about cosmetic rewards they just want BiS and nothing else. With the time lock to get ascended pieces it guarantees about 180 days per character to spec in ascended gear. If they dont use time lock they still need that 180 days per character else they’d need to keep adding new gear tiers and I am sure people will like that a lot less then they like time gating. To make sure the hardcore of the hardcore players who ascended gear is mostly meant for take 180 days to get all their pieces the requirements if you use non time gated resources would be mind blowing. Casuals would have no way of keeping up! thats the reason in my personal opinion.

I actually don’t see why we would need entirely new tiers of armor (or anything else for that matter). It was made pretty clear that the endgame of GW2 isn’t collecting an endless stream of new, better gear but rather playing Pretty Princess with your character. I, for one, don’t care at all about Ascended gear. The time/reward ratio on it is just way way off for no real reason.

The type of player who would complain about lack of new gear is probably farming CoF1 for the 32526th time today right now.

Bezayne.6459:

Galen Grey.4709:

Grileenor.1497:

I agree with the OP. The game does not need this stuff. Give us more freedom to choose the way we like to play the game without the need to grind stuff you need to do, if you want to get certain materials or something like that.

Honestly I think this is exactly what dailies are doing. You can get the daily done in so many ways that do have the freedom to choose the way you want to play.
….

I think people are missunderstanding what dailies really does to their freedom, it doesnt take it away, it creates it!

You are missing an important point there. With rewards being given for AP, people want to achieve the most AP possible. This is also reinforced by having AP leader boards, thus Anet is giving even more importance to this AP-hunt. Wether you personally buy into this specific game design is not deciding, a lot of people do and feel unhappy due to it.

What is being suggested here multiple times is to provide more freedom in getting those time-gated APs, by moving dailies to be weeklies. Also to get rid of menial tasks like mine a certain node once per day. The most annoying about it is not the mining, it is each day you have to suffer multiple slow loading screens to even get to that node in the first place, with nothing else to do in that area. Let me mine it once per week seven times at once, and I will feel a lot less annoyed about it.

In the end it is about a good gaming experience, and providing options to please various tastes / needs is always a Good Thing™.

I am sure some are trying to get as much AP as possible as fast as possible but thats not really the point. The point is whether speed is really a factor? the AP rewards arent going anywhere, if this month I get 30 AP less then the theoretical maximum is that really a problem? No not at all.

If people feel they have to get there quickly its their perception thats at issue not the game. You blame the achievement system but I am sure if those same rewards where sold for karma or gold people would equally try to get that currency as quickly as possible.

I am not sure how I feel about weeklies. I personally suspect it would make the situation as lot worst. For those who play every day its not a big deal either way. But for people who play just during weekends it will be a grinding nightmare that just cannot be avoided no matter how much you’d wish to avoid it.

Kill 1 champion well you can quite easily come across 1 champion while playing the game the way you want rather then farming but there is no way to come across 7 without specifically farming for them.

Killing 25 aquatic mobs is acceptable but 175?

It will also make a lot of people angry and jaded. If you’re the kind of person who cant bare to miss a laurel or two a week you’re probably the kind of person who tries to get things done ASAP. This means most of these players will get the weekly done on day 1 of the week. Somehow I dont think these people will be happy at not being able to progress towards their chosen reward for 6/7 of the week.

It solves somethings but creates other issues.

as for mining a node daily… you’re right the loading screens are annoying and the whole activity is boring. But the alternative would be a lot worst in my opinion. I’d rather be bored 2 minutes for 20 days per ascended gear piece then having to farm some 250 karka shells that will have me bored for some 40hrs at least.

Arimahn.3568:

milo.6942:

Arimahn.3568:

Time gating makes sense in a game that has traditional subscription fees since you want people to play as often as possible. It doesn’t make sense in a game like GW2 where 80% of your income comes from 5% of the player base (“Whales” that buy everything on the TP asap).

Just wanted to pop in and remind everyone that gw2 is actually very similar to subscription games. They make most of their money now from the gemstore. It’s simple business marketing math, whatever your sales are you can increase them by getting more people to view your products more often. Ergo, gw2 has a very strong interest in getting people to come back as often as possible.

In my own related opinion: I believe many things in this game are strongly influenced by the gemstore. They are pumping out content as fast as they can in an effort to keep maximum engagement from players. Overall it is a positive trend, but anet needs to weigh their own profits vs what players want, and not get caught up in looking only at what produces the most $$$.

They apparently make enough money to not need a paid expansion like they did with GW1, so…

Again though: The most income is generated by the fewest players. It really doesn’t matter if the rest logs in regularly or not. In fact, I would suspect that fewer logins per day puts less strain on their servers which keeps cost down.

I’m not sure what you meant by your first sentence, but if you are implying that they make “enough” money so that they are no longer worried about making more, I dare say you are naive.

Your second point is irrelevant. Firstly you overestimate how much they pay for server bandwidth (hint: it is likely a footnote on their overall bill), and secondly it may be true that a small percentage of players generates the bulk of gemstore income, but by increasing the number of players in game -> more chance of eyeballs on gemstore -> more chance of someone buying something. This is basic business. By saying that they don’t need to make boxed expansions to profit essentially confirms that the ratio of paying / non-paying players is sufficiently lucrative that they are focusing on a strategy to maximize the number of logins they get.

I’m not attacking you. Just making sure my point gets across.

VictorTroska.3725:

Concept of dailies is horrible because not all people realize or want to realize that they do not need to complete dailies in order to enjoy game. Thus starting something like: Game plays you and not you playing game. Quite a lot of people feel like they must complete dailies and it even shows on screen just to remind you of that task. It is lazy developers concept to add high end rewards into game and making sure that players do not get em quickly.

Thats not the case at all, if dailies alone where something that compels people to complete them we’d see these issues discussed when dailies didnt reward laurels which could be used to acquire ascended gear.

No the issue is most definitely because people feel dailies are artificially slowing them down from getting the rewards as quickly as possible even though I am a strong believe thakittens actually quite the opposite.

Craptrain.7203:

You’re misinterpreting again. Laurels, APs, quartz nodes become the answer to ’Why did I play today?" The answer to that question should be “fun”.

They become the answer to the why I played today question only if you decided thats the reason why you played today. Dailies is something you can do while having fun… at most you’ll have to spend 5 – 10 minutes to finish it off before you stop if at all. Quartz node you can get in 2 minutes taking in consideration even loading screens. No reason why any of them should be all the game is about.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Craptrain.7203:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Craptrain.7203:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Craptrain.7203:

Okay, so that’s you. My personal philosophy is that once a game starts to feel like a job, I’m done with it. Mandating I be there everyday to perform routine mindless tasks in order to receive a certain reward (contrary to being there by choice for fun) seems awfully job-like to me. I’m willing to bet more than a handful of people share my philosophy.

I would agree, but I have yet to see a mandate . . . a requirement to be there every day.

You seem to have missed the second half of that sentence. You know, the part where I said “… in order to receive a certain reward.” Yeah sure, no one is forcing you to play every day, but very day you miss is a laurel you lose out on, APs you lose out on, quartz nodes you lose out on, etc.

I didn’t miss the second half of the sentence, I just think the rewards are . . . bluntly, underwhelming and too much importance is placed on them existing at all. It does start with the question “what in the rewards are you needing?” and followed by “why?”.

I’m as serious as they are about this pursuit. If you’re going to attach some level of “requirement” then you need to stop to think about why you feel it’s a requirement, and what it gets you. People bring up operant conditioning, which is why I ask that question all the time of myself: “why?”

And if the answer is “because it’s there”, that’s the cue to step back and reconsider your answer.

You’re misinterpreting again. Laurels, APs, quartz nodes become the answer to ’Why did I play today?" The answer to that question should be “fun”.

I may have been misinterpreting, because we agree on that. But when the answer is “Laurels/AP/Quartz/Fuzzy Tails” then I really do want to ask “why do you need those things?”.

I can’t speak for everyone, but I’m sure many people are anxious about what time-gated resource is going to be used for the new ascended weapons and armor (because there is a large group of players who want BiS gear). If it turns out to be one of the current ones, do they really want to be at a disadvantage when acquiring these because they didn’t keep up with their dailies?

Galen Grey.4709:

They become the answer to the why I played today question only if you decided thats the reason why you played today. Dailies is something you can do while having fun… at most you’ll have to spend 5 – 10 minutes to finish it off before you stop if at all. Quartz node you can get in 2 minutes taking in consideration even loading screens. No reason why any of them should be all the game is about.

You seem to be misinterpreting as well. I made no mention of forgoing “fun” activities in favor of doing dailies. I stated the only reason some people even log in is to complete dailies. You yourself might not do that, but don’t try to deny there is a vast segment of the player base that does.

milo.6942:

Arimahn.3568:

milo.6942:

Arimahn.3568:

Time gating makes sense in a game that has traditional subscription fees since you want people to play as often as possible. It doesn’t make sense in a game like GW2 where 80% of your income comes from 5% of the player base (“Whales” that buy everything on the TP asap).

Just wanted to pop in and remind everyone that gw2 is actually very similar to subscription games. They make most of their money now from the gemstore. It’s simple business marketing math, whatever your sales are you can increase them by getting more people to view your products more often. Ergo, gw2 has a very strong interest in getting people to come back as often as possible.

In my own related opinion: I believe many things in this game are strongly influenced by the gemstore. They are pumping out content as fast as they can in an effort to keep maximum engagement from players. Overall it is a positive trend, but anet needs to weigh their own profits vs what players want, and not get caught up in looking only at what produces the most $$$.

They apparently make enough money to not need a paid expansion like they did with GW1, so…

Again though: The most income is generated by the fewest players. It really doesn’t matter if the rest logs in regularly or not. In fact, I would suspect that fewer logins per day puts less strain on their servers which keeps cost down.

I’m not sure what you meant by your first sentence, but if you are implying that they make “enough” money so that they are no longer worried about making more, I dare say you are naive.

Your second point is irrelevant. Firstly you overestimate how much they pay for server bandwidth (hint: it is likely a footnote on their overall bill), and secondly it may be true that a small percentage of players generates the bulk of gemstore income, but by increasing the number of players in game -> more chance of eyeballs on gemstore -> more chance of someone buying something. This is basic business.

I’m not attacking you. Just making sure my point gets across.

My first statement was intended to point out just how well they seem to be doing financially. As you say yourself, Anet doesn’t want “enough” money, they wan’t as much as possible. So why not put a team aside for 6 months and release a 30$ expansion with what is now Living Story content? Surely that would be great for business?

Yet instead they focus on mediocre Living Story content with more and more time-gated specialized currencies. It makes no sense, especially since the Story so far has not been all that well received.

Arimahn.3568:

Galen Grey.4709:

Arimahn.3568:

Galen Grey.4709:

If today I feel like WvW… thats getting the daily done. If today I feel like a dungeon.. its getting the daily done. If today I feel like starting an alt and doing dynamic events in a starter zone… thats getting the daily done etc…

I think people are missunderstanding what dailies really does to their freedom, it doesnt take it away, it creates it!

What if 3/4 of the options you get for your daily are bad, to you personally? I don’t like WvW (And Gandara is bad at it anyway so fat chance of getting it done in a timely manner), I don’t like dungeons due to their shoddy design and elitist PUGs and I don’t exactly like making alts simply because certain parts of the game punish you for diverting your time over multiple characters.

The only freedom I currently have is whether or not to do my daily at all and more often than not I don’t care enough to log in and do it.

Time gating makes sense in a game that has traditional subscription fees since you want people to play as often as possible. It doesn’t make sense in a game like GW2 where 80% of your income comes from 5% of the player base (“Whales” that buy everything on the TP asap).

I can reply to you better if you tell us what you like rather then what you dont like. I rarely do dungeons and WvW too and have no trouble doing the dailies playing everything else.

as for the sense about time gating is like I said before to make sure there is no need for a new armor tier anytime soon. Some people simply dont care about cosmetic rewards they just want BiS and nothing else. With the time lock to get ascended pieces it guarantees about 180 days per character to spec in ascended gear. If they dont use time lock they still need that 180 days per character else they’d need to keep adding new gear tiers and I am sure people will like that a lot less then they like time gating. To make sure the hardcore of the hardcore players who ascended gear is mostly meant for take 180 days to get all their pieces the requirements if you use non time gated resources would be mind blowing. Casuals would have no way of keeping up! thats the reason in my personal opinion.

I actually don’t see why we would need entirely new tiers of armor (or anything else for that matter). It was made pretty clear that the endgame of GW2 isn’t collecting an endless stream of new, better gear but rather playing Pretty Princess with your character. I, for one, don’t care at all about Ascended gear. The time/reward ratio on it is just way way off for no real reason.

The type of player who would complain about lack of new gear is probably farming CoF1 for the 32526th time today right now.

I agree with you but you cannot deny just like I cannot deny that there are many players who feel cosmetic are nothing more then playing barbie which is an activity best suited for other players and not to them. These people need goals to work towards as well. If cosmetics are out of the question what remains is progression. That means once enough of them fully gear all their characters will ascended gear they will demand new tiers. What should Anet decide do then? tell them sorry this game is not for you? Before you say yes too quickly how would you feel if it turns out they’re the majority and they tell us who are for cosmetic gears sorry we said we will not but customers demand a gear treadmill so we’re going to start one? I surely wouldnt be happy.

Like you said these players are probably starting CoF run for the 32526th time today right now. These people can run through requirements like none of us non super hardcore players can ever hope to achieve so without a timegate that could turn into a real problem.

Galen Grey.4709:

I am sure some are trying to get as much AP as possible as fast as possible but thats not really the point. The point is whether speed is really a factor? the AP rewards arent going anywhere, if this month I get 30 AP less then the theoretical maximum is that really a problem? No not at all.

This is your personal opinion. Mileage for other players may vary (by a lot). As in – you can not simply define it ok for everyone to take an arbitrary time to reach a certain goal just because it is ok for you.

Galen Grey.4709:

I am not sure how I feel about weeklies. I personally suspect it would make the situation as lot worst. For those who play every day its not a big deal either way. But for people who play just during weekends it will be a grinding nightmare that just cannot be avoided no matter how much you’d wish to avoid it.

First, it would give weekend-only players an option they currently don’t have – to get all laurels for a given week plus all APs. Second – yes I agree it could turn into a grinding nightmare, which only serves to show that these daily tasks are done in a rather thoughtless manner. They do not promote fun activities in many cases, killing X underwater creatures is a good example.

What I (and others) are arguing here is that the current system is less than optimal and has a lot of room for improvement. No more and no less.

Craptrain.7203:

You seem to be misinterpreting as well. I made no mention of forgoing “fun” activities in favor of doing dailies. I stated the only reason some people even log in is to complete dailies. You yourself might not do that, but don’t try to deny there is a vast segment of the player base that does.

I did acknowledge that in a previous post, might be a different threat not sure… but anyhow do you think changing laurels for gold would make a difference to these players?

If you need 20 laurels for your reward and you make yourself log everyday so you make sure you have your reward by the 10th day if you instead of charging 20 laurels you charged say 40g do you believe people will be happy of just playing during the weekend and take 1 month 1 week?

Doubt it very much, if you just cant wait you will not be able to wait no matter what currency is used.

Navzar.2938:

In gw1, you could have up to 3 dailies in your quest log at a time. So you really only had to log in every three days. You could also save dailies for a looong time until you felt like doing them. And while it did give some nice things, it wasn’t anything necessary or better equipment and whatnot, although they did have some larger bags and special skins. The rewards were tradable too, so again, not really time gated then.

Of course I started this with the phrase “in gw1” so I guess it’s automatically ignored :p

Yeah, I can’t believe they don’t just use the Zaishen quest concept. It’s so much better.

Galen Grey.4709:

Craptrain.7203:

You seem to be misinterpreting as well. I made no mention of forgoing “fun” activities in favor of doing dailies. I stated the only reason some people even log in is to complete dailies. You yourself might not do that, but don’t try to deny there is a vast segment of the player base that does.

I did acknowledge that in a previous post, might be a different threat not sure… but anyhow do you think changing laurels for gold would make a difference to these players?

If you need 20 laurels for your reward and you make yourself log everyday so you make sure you have your reward by the 10th day if you instead of charging 20 laurels you charged say 40g do you believe people will be happy of just playing during the weekend and take 1 month 1 week?

Doubt it very much, if you just cant wait you will not be able to wait no matter what currency is used.

See, we’ll have to disagree there. If you used a resource that can be gained at any time, it would go a long way to appeasing many disgruntled players. I’ve seen a lot of complaints from people about not having much/any time to play on weeknights due to work, family, etc. Allowing them to play3 hours on a weekend and accumulate the same amount of resources as someone who plays 30 mins a night, six nights a week is good practice. As it stands now, playing 3 hours on a weekend yields a single laurel, whereas playing 30 mins a night for 6 nights yields 6. Do you perhaps see how one method shoehorns people into a play style they might not prefer, for no valid reason?

Bezayne.6459:

Galen Grey.4709:

I am sure some are trying to get as much AP as possible as fast as possible but thats not really the point. The point is whether speed is really a factor? the AP rewards arent going anywhere, if this month I get 30 AP less then the theoretical maximum is that really a problem? No not at all.

This is your personal opinion. Mileage for other players may vary (by a lot). As in – you can not simply define it ok for everyone to take an arbitrary time to reach a certain goal just because it is ok for you.

Galen Grey.4709:

I am not sure how I feel about weeklies. I personally suspect it would make the situation as lot worst. For those who play every day its not a big deal either way. But for people who play just during weekends it will be a grinding nightmare that just cannot be avoided no matter how much you’d wish to avoid it.

First, it would give weekend-only players an option they currently don’t have – to get all laurels for a given week plus all APs. Second – yes I agree it could turn into a grinding nightmare, which only serves to show that these daily tasks are done in a rather thoughtless manner. They do not promote fun activities in many cases, killing X underwater creatures is a good example.

What I (and others) are arguing here is that the current system is less than optimal and has a lot of room for improvement. No more and no less.

You misunderstand me, I am not saying everyone should be fine with it because I am fine with it, I am saying the game doesnt penalize you if you take more time. Thats not always the case with every game. For example If you played Neverwinter they have a sort of laurel as well. You get 1 a day but if you miss 1 day you dont just miss that 1 everything you accumulated before is lost as well (the currency is capped at 7 though and there are rewards you can buy at 1 / 3/ 5/ 7). There time is a factor. If you dont log in 1 day you have to start from scratch. Here it is isnt. Hence in Neverwinter saying the game is making me log every day is understandable to a point because not logging is actually penalizing you in a tungable way (removing what you have already earned) Here its a personal choice because the game isnt really penalizing you if you dont log or if you earn less. Being a personal choice I am sceptic how changing one currency for another would really make a difference. If you have to get the last 30ap before the event ends so that you get as fast as possible to the zenith skin you want if that zenith skin costed gold instead of AP you’d likely be farming gold as much as possible to get to it as quickly as possible.

Of course the current system is less then optimal, I agree as well on that. Dont agree thakittens rather thoughtless though. Basically anything people like doing contributes to completing them not sure how they can make that any better. Anyhow I just cant think of a better way to implement this that also satisfies the game requirements. Do you have any suggestions?

Arimahn.3568:

My first statement was intended to point out just how well they seem to be doing financially. As you say yourself, Anet doesn’t want “enough” money, they wan’t as much as possible. So why not put a team aside for 6 months and release a 30$ expansion with what is now Living Story content? Surely that would be great for business?

Yet instead they focus on mediocre Living Story content with more and more time-gated specialized currencies. It makes no sense, especially since the Story so far has not been all that well received.

I agree, the living story has not been well received by many players, but who are we to say it hasn’t been a business success for anet? They could do an expansion, and they would certainly profit, but it may just be that they estimate to make more continuing with mini updates. If you remember that they are making big money with gemstore, it makes sense that they would first try to optimize their profits there before “falling back” to plan b expansions.

Ultimately, as I’ve said, this game is infused with marketing decisions based on the gemstore. It’s impossible to delineate where gameplay ends and business begins. Temporary content and time-gated rewards are examples of this. Could we say that our gaming experience is better for these things… maybe. But the monetary gain from them is clear to me. These things put a vague pressure on the players to log in daily, even if for only a half hour. Is that in the interests of the players, or anet?